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finetoons
09-28-2007, 08:27 PM
Now I completely understand why everyone here is so devoted to squirrels. These little guys are so darn cute. Here are pix of the ones I've rescued: P. Nutty and Sandy. Don't ask me which is which...it was hard enough just taking their pictures! (But I'm doing my best in taking care of them).

4skwerlz
09-28-2007, 08:34 PM
:Welcome Your babies are adorable and look nice and healthy. You might as well prepare for the "grilling." :D Everyone will want to know exactly how you found them, what you're feeding them, and where you're housing these little guys. We do it to everyone new, just to be sure every squirrel baby gets the best care possible! And of course, if you have any questions, we're always here. So..........details please!!! And :thankyou so much for rescuing these precious little squirrels!

finetoons
09-28-2007, 09:05 PM
Hi 4skwerlz,

I've been lurking the site for a bit, and found out that you guys don't bite, so I was brave enough to post a few entries. If you click on my username, you'll see my posts...one of them has the "story" of these squirrels (basically, it was either up to mother nature to "take care" of these guys, or me to play mother nature).

I've read up on things, and this board has been incredibly useful in clarifying some issues for me. I believe the kits are being fed correctly -- after hydrating, I've given them puppy formula (ebulac or whatever the Ag product is called), I'm trying to get them to try solids - they've shredded some rodent blocks a bit. I also have avocados, broccoli and apples on standby for when they are ready (no interest yet though). I even have primate chow and deer antlers from Chris's website. This is their 4th night with us. They are amazing. In the late afternoon they wake up and play around in their cage, doing all sorts of squirrley things, like climbing the bars and making cute sounds. I estimate they are about 6 weeks old. Tomorrow I am going to introduce a bit of heavy cream into their diets. They both seem to be doing well, although one (the female) is smaller than the other (the male).

I am still nervous about parasites...fleas are an annoyance but harmless. However, maggots or other evil things are insidious. I would -not- want these creatures to suffer from anything that I might overlook.

So thanks for your interest, but thank you more for your insight. There is great comfort in knowing there are a bunch of experienced squirrel rescuers who can help me help these little guys.

BTW, what is the proper name for a baby squirrel? Is it a kit? a pup? A-cuter than-anything-bundle-of-fur?

I'll be back with more questions.

jules
09-28-2007, 09:14 PM
Hi Finetoons!

:Welcome to TSB
They look great!

You will enjoy it here!
:wave123

Jules. :Love_Icon

4skwerlz
09-28-2007, 09:28 PM
BTW, what is the proper name for a baby squirrel? Is it a kit? a pup? A-cuter than-anything-bundle-of-fur?

I believe that "snooky-wookems," "lil' boogly-boo," and "pooky-wooky" are all generally accepted as correct names for infant tree squirrels. So take your pick, or invent your own! :D

I see there are a number of fine TSB rehabbers online tonight, and I'm sure they'll be happy to help you with your other questions. :wave123

squirrelsrule&bunniestoo
09-29-2007, 08:10 AM
Do you have a gram scale to weigh the little tykes on? How did you find them (I looked at you other posts but didn't really see how they came to be with you)? They look like they are a little bit puffed up, meaning they are underweight and possibly dehydrated. Often when we come across babies the age of your two, they have been without their mom for 3-6 days. They stay up in the nest waiting for her until they are absolutely starving, then they come out in search of food. I am not telling you this to scare you, just to let you know that your babies may still be in critical condition. I got a baby that was very underweight this past Sunday and he is still on Pedialyte feedings 1-2 times a day and 5 milk feedings because he is so far underweight. How are your babies drinking the milk? Do they really want it or are they just taking what you give them? Chances are if they are eager and wanting more than you are giving them then they are not dehydrated and it is just the way the picture was taken, but if they are not wanting to drink the milk, they are most likely dehydrated.

Good luck with the little tykes! I hope they do really good and start eating their regular food soon.

rippie-n-lilgirlsmom
09-29-2007, 08:53 AM
I believe that "snooky-wookems," "lil' boogly-boo," and "pooky-wooky" are all generally accepted as correct names for infant tree squirrels. So take your pick, or invent your own!
:rotfl :rotfl

squirrelsrule&bunniestoo
09-29-2007, 09:02 AM
I found out how you found them firetone, so don't worry about retyping all that! Sounds like they were without mom for quite some time before you got them.

thundersquirrel
09-29-2007, 09:19 AM
SR&BT, where did you find the info on these guys? i can't find it! (also, be careful with the word "milk"- i think you meant formula, though. no biggy ;) )

:Welcome finetoons! i can see you've been making some posts, sorry i didn't catch them! as you can see, we've gotten a lot of activity in the other help needed forums.

your little ones are quite cute. :D can't say i've met a baby squirrel who ISN'T cute though!

i believe they are referred to as pups, but i've only heard it as a term; "squirrel pups". however, you are quite welcome to use snooky-wookems, or the like. :rotfl

may i ask- what's your plan for these little buggers? thank you so much for saving them!

squirrelsrule&bunniestoo
09-29-2007, 09:29 AM
Yes, I meant formula not milk, sorry. I call the esbilac their milk, but definetely do not feed any squirrel cows milk!

Here's the link with their story on it:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7001

hazel
09-29-2007, 11:05 AM
:Welcome Your babies are very cute!

I did some research and found that most commonly squirrel babies are officially referred to as...............baby squirrels! Really! Odd....
Baby squirrels can also properly be called pups, kits or kittens (but apparently not puppies:nono )

Try this simple test for dehydration on each of the babies.

Pinch the skin in the shoulder area and pull it up and away from their body.
Let the skin go so that it falls back down and watch it carefully.
The skin will snap right back into place on a fully hydrated baby.
If it takes a second or two to go back into place or if the skin remains bunched, then the baby is dehydrated.

A plastic flea comb is very inexpensive (and works better than any other type IMO) It's the best tool to use when checking for parasites. To check for fleas simply comb the fur. To check for fly eggs it's best to comb the fur backwards in very small sections and in a well lit area. The flea comb is a very good tool to use to comb out the fly eggs. Fly eggs are small, but visable. They're generally laid in groups and can be various shades of white to pale amber colored.

hazel
09-29-2007, 11:38 AM
I just saw your ''parasite prophylactic?'' thread. (Just a thought...I'd try as much as possible to keep these babies on one thread, unless of course, there is an emergency situation. Keeping all their issues and all your questions on one thread will help us get a more accurate picture of their situation. :) )

To answer your questions from the other thread, I don't believe that prophylactic treatment of parasites is a good idea. Remember, these treatments are not without risk. External parasites will likely be found using a flea comb. Once you know specifically that they have a parasite, then you can treat for that parasite. Internal parasites generally will cause symptoms. If that is the case, a fecal exam should be done. Internal parasites are not very common in squirrels.

I would only bathe a baby squirrel if it was extremely dirty. (I've raised hundreds and can only remember ONE actual bath!) You can't bathe without chilling the baby and products always carry the risk of skin irritation. Most commonly babies at this age are getting formula on their fur. This is effectively cleaned using a damp washcloth.

How is everything today? :crybaby

finetoons
09-29-2007, 02:02 PM
Thanks again for all your concern and input. I will take your advice and keep the posts all in one thread from now on...

The night I brought them home, they were definitely chilled. The funny thing was that i put them in a box in the front seat of my car, but as soon as I got in the driver's seat, they both crawled out, up my arm, onto my shoulder and into my cleavage! They promptly curled up and fell asleep between boobs! Nobody has ever done THAT before! By the time we got home, they were quite warm. They were both very receptive to the pedialyte concoction I made (my kids are 9 and 13 so we don't have real pedialyte in the house anymore). The next day, one was VERY receptive to the formula, but one was only interested in the pedialyte. After a few feedings of just pedialyte for her, she then began to devour the formula too. They seem to pass the tent test, but it's hard to tell with their fur getting in the way. I can feel their little ribs and vertebrae very easily though, so maybe they are underweight? I don't have a gram scale, but was thinking about taking them to the post office to get weighed! ; )

They get very excited about feeding and can't get the syringe into their mouths fast enough. I also put a little in a lid, which they both lap up while the other is being fed. They have been stopping on their own, however, at about 6 - 7 ml. I added heavy cream to the mix starting today.

To be sure about hydration, would you recommend that I offer pedialyte at alternate feedings just in case?

One guy seems like he -might- be constipated. Any recommendations for that?

My plans for these guys (one's actually a girl) is to release them, of course. The real question is when and where...by the time they are old enough to be on their own, it will be -very- cold here in New England. I could overwinter them, but that has its disadvantages as well. As for where, the 2 mile rule makes sense. I found them across town, about 5 miles away in a ball field very close to a state forest. This would probably be the most ideal place for them, except I wouldn't know how to acclimate them way over there. I can't exactly check on their outdoor cage every night. So this will require some thought. But as I said earlier, I am still taking it one cautious step at a time.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Dancingsquirrel
09-29-2007, 02:20 PM
The babies are ADORABLE!! Thank you for saving and careing for them finetoons! :thumbsup

hazel
09-29-2007, 03:56 PM
HA! LOL I love the boob story!:rolf Any babies who chose to spend time with me in a similar way would find mighty slim pickins :shakehead

No harm in offering pedialyte a few times a day. Baby squirrels don't really become constipated very often at all. You'll probably notice improvement as he becomes fully hydrated. As for the hydration test. Look at what their fur looks like at their shoulder blades and then see if it snaps back to the way it was as quickly as it should be.

I'm not sure if the P.O. idea is a safe one? Do you live in a squirrel-friendly state? If not, it's illegal for you to have them and walking into a government building with them may be a bit dicey. WalMart sells gram scales in the kitchen department for about $30 if that's possible for you. (Bet 90% of the scales they sell are for squirrels or drugs....:thinking )

Forgot to mention that just like people, squirrel siblings come in different sizes (You should see my brother! Big boy!)

Keep offering solid foods. They should start really eating them a bit more each day. Try some cheerios, too.

It does look like you'll have to overwinter them. There's still plenty of time to get to all that. The most convenient place for you would be to keep and release them at your home. Possible, or not?

finetoons
09-29-2007, 04:20 PM
Here are more pix just in case anyone might see anything obvious that I am missing (thanks for the heads up that they could still be dehydrated). The ones on the left are the female. The single picture is the male. Geez, these are hard to take! Most of them came out blurry b/c they move around so much!

I wasn't really planning on going to the post office, but I -will- plan on getting to WalMart soon. (lol about the drugs and baby squirrels).

squirlymomma
09-29-2007, 04:34 PM
My,my,my, those are some gorgeous babies you have there. I don't see anything "obvious", then again I am not the expert. The experts on here are great and can help you a lot.
Pedialyte won't hurt them. I gave it to my Oscar boy after I found him, and he then developed a hunger for his formula (Esbilac). I found that the Gerber pedialyte is better than the original and it also comes in smaller bottles (6 packs). They like flavored too.

All the best - looking forward to more pics of your babies:thumbsup

squirrelsrule&bunniestoo
09-29-2007, 04:34 PM
Sounds like they are doing good. Smart thinking to keep the girl on pedialyte when she wouldn't drink the formula. Often times when they don't suck the formula down eagerly they are still dehydrated. And don't worry about the one that isn't pooping, as long as he is peeing ok there is no problem. I don't start worrying about them not pooping until they have gone 3 days without going. If he goes that long there may be a problem. He is probably just dehydrated though and once he is feeling better he will start going.

If you can feel their ribs easilly and their vertebrae, they are definetely underweight. They should be nice and plump at their age. I would give them 6-7 feedings a day with 1-2 of them being pedialyte feedings and the rest formula feedings.

It sounds like they will need to be overwintered. Since you have two you shouldn't have to worry much about them getting too tame during the winter. You will need a large outside cage for them. Another option would be to raise them and then when it is time for them to go outside, take them to a rehabber. Then you wouldn't have to build a large cage (they can get expensive). That is up to you though, it sounds like you are doing a great one and they would be lucky to have you care for them for the winter. I just know how expensive the cage can be and how time consuming so if these are the only 2 you will be raising it would be a lot easier to take them to a rehabber. It's your choice though. You could always become a rehabber too and make use of your outside cage in the future too :D .

squirrelsrule&bunniestoo
09-29-2007, 04:37 PM
I just saw your pictures, I think they are underweight. They should come around though they just require extra attention and feedings.

4skwerlz
09-29-2007, 04:50 PM
The babies are adorable. These pics show how thin they are though. Thank goodness their appetites are good. Their rough fur indicates they probably aren't fully rehydrated yet.

Signs include: lethargy or sleeping a lot, pale grayish gums, dry mouth, sunken eyes, whites around eyes showing, rough spiky fur, dry scaly skin. You mention constipation. This would be another sign of dehydration.

Treatment: Feedings of Pedialyte between their regular feedings until they're fully rehydrated. If they won't take much Pedialyte in one feeding, do a little at a time in several small feedings, drop by drop if you have to.

Don't skip this step, or figure the formula will gradually rehydrate them. We've had so many babies lately that were "sort of doing okay" but looked just like yours. They will eat okay for a while and then suddenly go downhill. They died quite suddenly. Their little systems just can't handle the food well unless they're fully hydrated.

Good luck.

finetoons
09-29-2007, 06:53 PM
THANK YOU! I am on it! I'll make sure they get re-hydrated.

finetoons
09-30-2007, 08:31 AM
OK, here's the latest update.

I gave them 2 extra pedialyte feedings, which they took happily, up to about 3 ml for each squirrel/feeding.

I also tried feeding them formula, which they accept anxiously, but would then stop after maybe 1 ml.

Their gums are pink (or at least that little cleft spot under their nose is). They sleep a lot, , but when they are awake, they are active. Their eyes look OK, but as 4skwerlz pointed out in the previous pictures, their fur is a little spiky.

This disinterest in formula has me concerned, but it only started when I switched to the powder mix. Prior to this I had been giving them the pre-made stuff. I've never been a good cook - maybe they just don't like the way I make the mix?

I got a kitchen scale, but seriously, it is very hard to get an accurate reading since they are so active. They're light though...in the range of 50 grams.

I'll post more later. I welcome any advice in the meantime.

4skwerlz
09-30-2007, 09:00 AM
Wow, 50 grams is small. It's great you were able to feed the Pedialyte. 3cc's is a nice amount. What Gammas said is true. Their appetite should improve once they're rehydrated. You just switched to powdered Esbilac; they might not like it as much but should adjust. What are the poops like? Also what color is the pee?

Also, just to cover all possibilities, another thing that can affect their appetite: Are they being kept really warm at all times with a heating pad? Are you keeping them wrapped up while you're feeding them? Can you do a quick check by feeling their little feet? They should feel warm.

I'm sure one of the other rehabbers will have some ideas.

squirrelsrule&bunniestoo
09-30-2007, 09:41 AM
WOW! 50 grams is super scrawny! Are you sure you didn't mean 150 grams? That would still be skinny for squirrels their age. My little guy came in at 128 grams and was very scrawny and dehydrated. I think they are going to need special help if they are seriously 50 grams. At that weight they need to be monitored all the time and given Sub Q fluids under the skin. Is there any way you could get them to a rehabber if they really are 50 grams? It is your decision, but if they are that much underweight they really need help from someone with a lot of experience raising squirrels.

thundersquirrel
09-30-2007, 10:32 AM
SR&BT is right about that weight- it's a bit extreme. were you able to weigh them while they were sleeping? i find this is the best way to get an accurate reading. i also use a towel (i weigh the towel and subtract the weight, of course) as it keeps them relaxed.

as far as release goes.....if they were completely healthy, i'd say release them this fall. i think by october 31st they'd be old enough to be outside 24/7 (probably in a cage still, though).

where did you hear the "2 mile rule"? we release right in our backyard! :D

finetoons
09-30-2007, 11:42 AM
My bad with the weight. It turns out that there was a piece of cardboard between the tray and the measuring unit which threw the whole thing off. They are in the 96 g range - still small, I realize, but I am a -bit- more relieved.

I will call my vet in the a.m to see if she can do a subQ injection to help w/hydration. The thing is, as far as hydration symptoms, these guys are not extreme. I will continue to treat them as if they are, though.

I also have a friend at work who's neighbor is a licensed rehabber -- she's not taking any in though, but she may be able to do a real-life assessment.

They are -very- warm. I have them in a blanket and a heating pad underneath (on low). They love sleeping there, but do come out to play once in a while.

I've read the "release them within 2 miles of where they were found" in lots of different places, but Mary Cummins offered the most reasonable explanation in her squirrel manual -- it's really for genetic reasons. But I'll worry about that when we get there. For right now, I'm just trying to get them through each day.

Thanks again for everyone's support.

finetoons
09-30-2007, 12:02 PM
A quick update:

We just had a hugely successful feeding. 6 ml formula each (w/a bit o'cream). After the feedings they pee'd (clear, from what I could tell, but it was in the cage mixed in with the shredded newspapers. The exciting part is that they've started taking cheerios!

I am cautiously watching them...it's no longer one day at a time, but one hour at a time.

squirrelsrule&bunniestoo
09-30-2007, 12:03 PM
Glad to hear they are around 100 grams. They are still VERY scrawny, but better than if they were 50 grams. I would definetely at least take them to a rehabber to be looked at. Maybe the rehabber can give you a better idea of how dehydrated they are and how much underweight and give you a feeding plan to get them back on track. It is much easier to make a plan when you can actually see the squirrels in person and hold them.

4skwerlz
09-30-2007, 01:08 PM
A quick update:

We just had a hugely successful feeding. 6 ml formula each (w/a bit o'cream). After the feedings they pee'd (clear, from what I could tell, but it was in the cage mixed in with the shredded newspapers. The exciting part is that they've started taking cheerios!

I am cautiously watching them...it's no longer one day at a time, but one hour at a time.

Oh, that's such good news on all fronts. :thumbsup The rehabber visit is a super idea: if there's anything amiss you'll catch it early, and if they're doing fine, it will reassure their mommy....:D

Please let us know what the rehabber says. :Love_Icon

thundersquirrel
09-30-2007, 04:27 PM
how wonderful there's a rehabber near by! it REALLY is better to do a live assessment- you can tell so much more from the feel and behavior of the baby. :D

finetoons
09-30-2007, 11:32 PM
Quick update:

3 feedings of 5 ml. formula with a bit of cream. 2 small feedings of pedialyte. a few bites of cheerios. Not interested in any more food now, so I'll let them go through the night.

One had a healthy poop that I know of...formed, not too hard, not too soft. Yellowish brown.

Now they are up to 104g and 102g. Interestingly, the female, who was smaller, gained the most. I'll see how they look in the morning. How much -should- a baby weigh around this age (6 weeks-ish)?

They LOVE to sleep in the fleece over the heating pad. Could the heating pad be causing any dehydration?

I left a message for the licensed rehabber this morning, but haven't heard back from her yet. I'll call again tomorrow. I'll wait for her assessment before I bring them to the vet for a subcutaneous injection of fluids -- unless I see any worrisome signs first.

G'night all, and thanks for being here.

hazel
10-01-2007, 01:03 AM
You're doing a really fine job with these babies! :) :)

Don't give the heating pad a second thought. Being toasty warm does not cause dehydration. Most of my squirrels have loved their their heating pads.:Love_Icon

squirrelsrule&bunniestoo
10-01-2007, 05:36 AM
I agree! They need the heating pad since they are weak right now. It won't make them dehydrated. Sounds like you are doing a great job with them. I hope you are able to get a hold of the rehabber and have her look at them. Then you will really know how healthy or sick they are.

finetoons
10-01-2007, 06:44 PM
10/1 7:45
No weight gain since last night (but last night I weighed them right after a feeding). They are 104g and 102g. They are pee'ing (clear) and pooping (soft, but not too mushy) very well, and even get out of their nest to go to the other side of the cage for their business.

They only had 3 feedings today -- about 5 ml formula w/cream each. They want nothing to do with the pedialyte, although I do try to force at least a few drops between feedings. Thanks for the advice about keeping the hands warm and wrapping them in a blanket while feeding. I think that helps.

They DO love their cheerios and have begun to munch on avocado. But what they love most is to be snuggled in their warm bed with the heating pad. Before feeding time, I turn off the pad so they get a little cooler and more awake. When the heating pad is not on, they get a lot more lively, foraging around the cage and climbing on the bars.

They've begun to curl their tails on their backs. They can't sit up and eat yet, so I'm putting them at about 6 weeks now. What would their -normal- weight be at this age?

The rehabber hasn't called back after 2 attempts...I think it's because I'm leaving a message with her HUSBAND. I'll keep trying.

4skwerlz
10-01-2007, 07:23 PM
10/1 7:45
No weight gain since last night (but last night I weighed them right after a feeding). They are 104g and 102g. They are pee'ing (clear) and pooping (soft, but not too mushy) very well, and even get out of their nest to go to the other side of the cage for their business.
That sounds pretty good. What's the color of the poo?


They only had 3 feedings today -- about 5 ml formula w/cream each.
Since our rehabbers feed by the 5% rule, about 5ml per feeding is good, but they should be getting more than 3 feedings per day. Did you try more feedings? What proportions of cream:Esbilac:water are you feeding?


They want nothing to do with the pedialyte, although I do try to force at least a few drops between feedings.
Try flavoring the Pedialyte with a little apple juice.


Thanks for the advice about keeping the hands warm and wrapping them in a blanket while feeding. I think that helps. They DO love their cheerios and have begun to munch on avocado. But what they love most is to be snuggled in their warm bed with the heating pad.
Good. It's so important that they don't have to burn extra calories staying warm. You can even give them a rice buddy and see how they like it. Since they're still a bit thin, they might appreciate the extra heat.


They've begun to curl their tails on their backs. They can't sit up and eat yet, so I'm putting them at about 6 weeks now. What would their -normal- weight be at this age?
Weights vary quite a bit. Can you post a pic from today?

Have you noticed any improvement in their appearance or activity since yesterday?

finetoons
10-01-2007, 07:23 PM
Does anyone know what the normal respiratory rate is for a baby squirrel?

thundersquirrel
10-01-2007, 07:29 PM
when they sleep, i think it should be fairly steady, like you would breathe just sitting normally. when they're awake, it can be faster....what's going on? it's very hard to judge something like this via internet....:thinking ....just tell us what you can. :thumbsup

finetoons
10-01-2007, 07:32 PM
Thanks, 4skwerlz. I actually stayed home from work today and tried to feed them every 3 hours. However, they were adamant about when they did and didn't want to eat, which ended up to be only about 3 feedings. The night is still young though.

Their poops are a yellowish color. Hmmmm. A yummy, mustard-ish color.

The behavioral changes are almost indiscernible. The male, who started out bigger, seems to want less formula, although he's the one more interested in the solid foods. The female seems to be doing great. She eats the most. She also likes to sleep on her back and seems to be breathing faster than the male when she's doing that.

They both get active once in a while, climbing all over the cage.

I will post pictures soon.

4skwerlz
10-01-2007, 08:15 PM
Does anyone know what the normal respiratory rate is for a baby squirrel?

Normal resp. rate is 65-80/minute. It is slightly higher in babies. The most important thing is that the breathing seems "easy"--not labored or gasping or with mouth open, or with any sounds.

finetoons
10-01-2007, 09:43 PM
Thanks. Her respiratory rate seems well within range then. It's definitely not labored...it's just so funny seeing her on her back, looking as comfortable as can be, breathing away.

Great idea about the apple juice in the pedialyte. It definitely made a difference for the most recent feeding. Just tried feeding them formula - no interest. I'll try again in an hour.

Here are the latest pictures. Still skinny, I know, but I'd like to think they're improving. This was one tough photo shoot...these guys are so active. They definitely have good energy when awake. In the first picture, the one with both of them, the boy is the one on the left in mid-poop.

Then the other pictures are boy, boy, girl, girl.

4skwerlz
10-01-2007, 09:49 PM
Thanks. Her respiratory rate seems well within range then. It's definitely not labored...it's just so funny seeing her on her back, looking as comfortable as can be, breathing away. Good to hear the breathing is okay. They do breathe pretty fast naturally. Now, YOU take a deep breath, mom.


Great idea about the apple juice in the pedialyte. It definitely made a difference for the most recent feeding. Just tried feeding them formula - no interest. I'll try again in an hour. Glad it helped. Remember, all this is foreign to them, so sometimes they need extra coaxing.


Here are the latest pictures. Still skinny, I know, but I'd like to think they're improving. This was one tough photo shoot...these guys are so active. They definitely have good energy when awake. In the first picture, the one with both of them, the boy is the one on the left in mid-poop.
This all sounds good so far. (I know the rehabbers will chime in here.) They are still skinny, but I believe their eyes look a bit wider and brighter. It's a good sign that they're active. I also like to see them walking "up high" on their legs instead of crawling along.

BTW, just to check, what was that ratio of cream:esbilac:water you're feeding (just so the rehabbers can check and make sure everything's A-okay)?

finetoons
10-01-2007, 10:05 PM
I am giving them 1 part esbilac: 2 parts water and just a splash of heavy cream.

[deep breath]

thundersquirrel
10-01-2007, 10:13 PM
your formula ratio sounds fine. the fact that they are pooping regularly and peeing well signifies a positive response to their diet.

here's something you can do to start getting meat on their bones- have you ever heard of nutrical? it's this brown paste meant for dogs and cats- it's very high in fat and protein, and is intended to bulk up emaciated critters.

for squirrels, nutrical should only be used in minimal amounts. some babies have issues swallowing it as it's a bit sticky, but they usually LOVE the taste!

i'm fairly certain you could get some at the pet store. at first, simply rub the nipple down with minimal nutrical- kind of "grease" it. this will introduce the smell and flavor. if they seem to like it, you can put a tiny gob on the nipple- no bigger than a grain of rice.

wait till the next feeding to put more on. this time, you could do the tiny gob twice, maybe three times, all the while making sure that they do not choke or aspirate on it.

never give more than three little gobs at a feeding. the stuff is basically pure fat and protein, and is a lot for the digestion. as soon as the babies reach a normal weight, you should stop using it.

hope this helps. i'll keep thinking of more tricks to get their weight up. ;)

island rehabber
10-01-2007, 10:21 PM
hi finetoons! Just chiming in here because I can never stay out of a good squirrelly thread :). They are adorable, and I'm joining thundersquirrel in thinking of ways to get them to eat more formula at each feeding. My old pals here will roll their eyes because I'm always saying this, but: is the formula VERY warm, almost hot? You can't believe the difference this can make in some squirrel babies....some like it HOT, 100+ degrees like it came straight from mamma. I would think at their age they would be taking formula 4-5 times per day, 8-12ccs at a time. So they could definitely use a little fat on their bones, although they're looking good.

thundersquirrel
10-01-2007, 10:27 PM
GOOD POINT IR! i'd forgotten about that- it really does make a difference for some babies.

quirlgirl
10-01-2007, 10:28 PM
Hi, I love your babies and you are doing a fantastic job with them:thumbsup You will have them plump before you know it, I know everything is a worry right now but you will get thru it with flying colors, thanks for giving those babies a great chance at life....:grouphug

hazel
10-02-2007, 02:56 AM
:thumbsup :thumbsup Great job! I think they look better.

FYI- Pedialyte is available in flavors, including apple.

You can keep their formula at a good temperature during feeding by placing the formula ''cup'' in a larger container full of hot water.

I have to respectfully disagree with the Nutrical idea. I don't consider it to be a very good product and don't personally know of any vets who recommend it's use anymore. I think you're adding enough extra oomph with the heavy cream.

I would suggest that you order some ''Regal Rat'' from www.oxbowhay.com It's a superior version of rodent chow or monkey biscuits. Since they're starting to nibble, it would be a very beneficial food to introduce at this time.

I don't think you should turn off the heating pad prior to feeding. I'd just wake them and pick them up. It's good for them to be relaxed when you begin to feed. (It's just as important for YOU to be relaxed!! Have you ever tried feeding a human infant when you're wound up? It doesn't go well because babies pick up the vibe) I've also noticed that stimulating babies to pee and poop (even if they no longer ''need'' it) before feeding can help put them in a better mood to eat.

finetoons
10-02-2007, 10:43 PM
Just a quick update:

Each feeding has been so different for each squirrel. But all the tricks and tips you've suggested have helped...hopefully we'll get into a regular habit. I still wish they'd take feedings more often, but they've only been doing about 3 - 4/day at about 9 ml each.

The male is now 110g (up from 104g) and the female is 106g (up from 102g). Hopefully this trend will continue.

They love avocado and cheerios. This morning (after going about 8 hrs without a feeding) they were SO active and funny, pushing each other to see who could get into my hands first to get first dibs on the syringe.

thundersquirrel
10-02-2007, 10:54 PM
hazel, we still use nutrical and find it beneficial. if you have greater reasons- such as it is harmful to babies in some way, or something- please let me know! but if not, it's just one of those things that we can differ on. ;) :peace

finetoons, remember that nutrical is just a tip- and clearly not all rehabbers use it. :) you can see how it goes with your babies, or just not use it, it's not what i'd call a "vital accessory". whatever works for you!

that's an excellent weight gain. clearly, though, it may take some time for them to reach average weight. just keep up the pedialyte and formula! :D

finetoons
10-05-2007, 07:40 AM
These guys are becoming little fatties! Last time I weighed them, they were in the high 120's grams. They are eating very well and looking good. I am very proud of them, and thankful to you guys for all your advice.

However, this morning I've into a bit of a problem. In feeding the male, the syringe slipped and the little guy aspirated. I did the recommended physical treatment, holding him downwards, trying to get it out of his respiratory system.

He's still snerfing a bit, and I know the risks of pneumonia this implies. I've also heard that they can sometimes aspirate once or twice without long term damage.

What should I do? Should I assume he's going to get pneumonia and try to get antibiotics from the vet? Should I wait for the clicking and other symptoms?

I look forward to your responses!

Buddy'sMom
10-05-2007, 08:06 AM
They are very cute and sound like they are fattening up nicely!! :thumbsup

That must have been scary this morning!! It's good that you reported it right away so the rehabbers (not me) can advise you what to look for and what to do. It's very important to watch his breathing, activity and eating for any changes. [... leaving the details to the rehabbers now ....]

He may be old enough now that it doesn't automatically mean trouble (it is much more dangerous for very little ones). That happened to me once and I thought I had killed him. But after a (very long) night of snorting and coughing (him) and crying (me), he was OK. But, every situation is different, so listen to the rehabbers and keep a good eye on him and let us know if there are any changes!

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

finetoons
10-06-2007, 11:20 AM
Thanks Buddy's Mom. You helped put me at ease. P. Nuddy seems fine now. The snerfing was short-lived.