Formula/potty help

[momma4two]

Hello, I started taking care of two babies a week ago, and I'm thinking they're close to two weeks old. I have been feeding them Esbilac puppy formula. One is a female and one is a male. They male seems to get dehydrated more frequently but is going to the bathroom just fine when I stimulate him. The poop comes out that yellow color, which reading other peoples posts that is normal. However, the female seems to be going poop on her own but I have not gotten her to go pee yet when I stimulate her after feeding. Is she by chance going pee when she goes poop as well and thats why she wont pee for me when I stimulate her? Also, I have read that if I am using Esbilac formula I should switch to Fox Valley. But I have also read that Esbilac is fine if they're doing fine. I want to do whats absolutely best for them to be in the best of health and I definitely wouldnt want trouble to come down the road because I didnt give them the right formula. Oh and the one thats a little darker in color is the male with the tail curled up. Help is much appreciated. Thank you!

[Spanky]

If you are using the Esbilac powdered formula, not the liquid or the goat's milk version continue using that. Make sure you store the opened powder in the freezer, or minimally the fridge. Despite what the label says it will go rancid quickly at room temps. The Esbilac is appropriate until they are 4 weeks old then we recommend switching up their formula... I use half Esbilac and half Fox Valley 20/50 (avoid the Fox Valley 32/40) from 4 weeks through weaning, some folks transition over to 100% FV 20/50.

It is strange for her not to pee at all for you when stimulated. Try fluffing her bits with the corner of a tissue paper and see what happens? I would suggest giving the boy 1 to 1.5ml of plain water in between feedings (about an hour or hour and a half after feeding) for a while... no harm in giving the girl some extra hydration as well.

[momma4two]

If you are using the Esbilac powdered formula, not the liquid or the goat's milk version continue using that. Make sure you store the opened powder in the freezer, or minimally the fridge. Despite what the label says it will go rancid quickly at room temps. The Esbilac is appropriate until they are 4 weeks old then we recommend switching up their formula... I use half Esbilac and half Fox Valley 20/50 (avoid the Fox Valley 32/40) from 4 weeks through weaning, some folks transition over to 100% FV 20/50.

It is strange for her not to pee at all for you when stimulated. Try fluffing her bits with the corner of a tissue paper and see what happens? I would suggest giving the boy 1 to 1.5ml of plain water in between feedings (about an hour or hour and a half after feeding) for a while... no harm in giving the girl some extra hydration as well.





It is the powdered formula. Okay I will make sure its in the fridge :). Do you think they are about 2 weeks old? From what I have looked up, they might be closer to 3 weeks. But looking at the girl, she doesnt have any fur except whiskers. I guess I should wait another 2 weeks before I switch to using half Esbilac and FV?

I have been trying to stimulate the girl for at least 5 min so she would go pee but no luck. I've tried using a warm cue tip, and a warm cotton ball but nothing seems to work. I am wondering if she is going pee when she goes poop and maybe thats why shes not going for me. I have been having to wipe her down with some warm water to get all that off of her. Its usually dried by the time I feed her which makes me think she goes after I lay her back down.

As of this morning, the boy weighed 22g and the girl was 23g. The boy weighed the same the past two days which thats another thing that I worry about or is that normal to not gain anything in 2 days? I have been feeding them every 3 hours unless I still see that milk line then I wait another 30 min or so until I dont see it.

[Spanky]

They should be gaining weight every day. But if dehydrated they are unable to process formula. Instead of formula give the boy water with just a smidge of molasses, honey, syrup or sugar... Same amount you would feed for formula, for the next 2 feedings.

[Tashahaven]

Definitely do as Spanky suggests with the hydration.

Not sure why your baby girl isn’t peeing for you. It is still a bit unusual at her age, to not do ANYthing when stimulated. I know for my girls a warm wet qtip usually did the trick when she was really small. Just slightly “tickled” her girlie bits ever so gently. After she got a bit bigger, about the size of yours, I used a dry white tshirt that I had cut into 4-5” squares. And did the same, but worked better… plus I could clearly see she was peeing. I always struggled to get my recent one to poo at that age. They are all different. Hopefully she is going on her own. But the only way you may know for sure is to line their enclosure with white T-shirt’s/sweatshirt material. You will see the stain. At least then you can alleviate any worry about IF…

[momma4two]

I gave them both some warm water earlier and for this feeding I gave them formula with 3 parts water instead of two. The little girl finally went pee and poop for me when I stimulated her! I switched to a cotton pad and just tapped the area. For some reason I guess she didn't like strokes lol. She still is going poop in the encloser but I'm so relieved now that she peed for me!

Now for adding molasses, honey or sugar, do I just put a little drop of one of those in a tablespoon? I just want to make sure I don't put to much in the water.

[Spanky]

If hydration is the issue, you don't want to give them diluted formula... you don't want to give them any formula. Just hydration. The simple explanation is that when fed nutrients / formula, fluid rushes out of the tissues into the stomach to aid with digestion which is a long process... this is the opposite of hydration. With a baby that is dehydrated, they don't have enough fluids in the tissue to afford even more fluids to be pulled into the stomach for digestion. Fluids continuously moving from the tissue into the stomach continues a cycle of dehydration, a cycle in which despite feeding them formula, they are not getting the nutrients the need from the formula due to dehydration.

Giving just hydration has the opposite effect... fluids quickly move from the stomach into the tissue. They will be fine substituting hydration for formula the next couple feedings, and in fact much better off in the long run. Once they have the proper amount of hydration, they will be able to actually digest the formula, process the nutrients better and they will started to gain weight and grow up rapidly.

Add just enough to sweeten the water and only if they are reluctant to take plain ole water. Feed the water the same temp as you do the formula. Maybe 1/4 teaspoon of molasses in a cup of water.

It cannot be emphasized enough how critical it is to have babies well hydrated before feeding formula.

[momma4two]

Oh okay. I will do just hydration the next couple of feedings. I just weighed them and the boy is now at 24grams and the girl is at 25grams. So the boy gained 2grams and the girl 1gram since yesterday. The boy seems to be the only one that would need more hydration I think. When I do the pinch test it takes a couple seconds for his skin to go down vs the girls skin goes down right away. Unless you would think it wouldnt hurt to give the girl hydration as well?

[Spanky]

Good news on the weight gain... be sure to weigh them consistently, like each morning before feeding.

I was more concerned about the boy, but today's weight gain is good news. I'd substitute 1 feeding of hydration (if any?) for the girl and 2 for the boy. :thumbsup

[momma4two]

Okay that sounds good. I will post an update tomorrow :grin3 Thank yall for all your help! I feel much better actually talking to people about this than just reading things lol.

[momma4two]

So here is an update. The girl and boy are now at 27grams. However I am still having trouble with getting the girl to go pee when I stimulate her. I've tried to do it before and after feeding but nothing. I have noticed that sometimes she will go a little bit when I pick her up. She is also still doing bowl movement in the container I have them in but not when I stimulate her. I always have to clean her and the boy off because its all over them. I just tried to give them some water because this morning their skin wasnt going down quickly. The girl ate but not the boy. He did not seem interested at all. They both were moving around like crazy when I was trying to feed them. It took a while for the girl to actually latch on the nipple though. I thought maybe the boy needed to do a bowl movement which he as well as went pee but he didnt eat anything. Any thoughts on why they were giving me so much trouble with eating? I put a very small drop of honey in some water but the boy still did not eat.

I am stuck on why the girl will not do anything when I stimulate her. She didnt do anything for me all day yesterday except for once last night. Is she maybe going pee when she does a bowl movement in the encloser and thats why shes not going for me when I stimulate? Maybe I am being overly concerned?

[Spanky]

Fussy eating for otherwise healthy babies is almost always related to the temperature of the hydration or formula being fed.

They like it hotter than you'd think they would... not warm like a human baby, but hot like around 110 degrees fahrenheit.

It is unusual that the girl is not urinating for you... I have problems getting them to go sometimes too (but I have a secret weapon too (my wife is almost always successful when I fail... just a wet finger). If she is not bloating and retaining water, she must be going in the bin being stimulated by moving around when he bits get dragged along. Keep trying, don't give up...

[momma4two]

Oh okay that makes since! I guess I just will have to wait a few more minutes so the formula gets hotter. I'm accustomed to not having the formula to hot from when my daughter was an infant lol. I will definitely remember that for the little munchkins :serene

The girl doesnt seem bloated I dont think. At least not like the pictures that I see when I look it up. She does try to drink fast. I've been using a 3ml syringe because those 1ml's keep getting stuck. I ordered a pack of 1ml miracle syringes with the nipples that should be arriving tonight. I'm hoping they will be better quality than the ones I got off of amazon!

[Spanky]

I ordered a pack of 1ml miracle syringes with the nipples that should be arriving tonight. I'm hoping they will be better quality than the ones I got off of amazon!

You will love the miracle syringes (and nipples) and these little ones (under 120 grams or so) really need to be fed with 1ml syringes, sticking is a danger though. The miracle syringes will not get sticky.

[momma4two]

I definitely love these new syringes! However I noticed that these little babies drink really fast. I dont even have to press down on the syringe for them to get anything. I've read if they drink to fast it can cause aspiration? I am using the 1ml syringe when I feed them but I am worried they are drinking it too fast. Also after they eat the full 1ml, they seem to want more. They move around my hand like crazy and make that little puppy noise. Does that mean I should be giving them more than just 1ml? I weighed them this morning and they are both at 29grams. :dono

Also, they still squirm around ALOT before I can even get them to latch on the nipple. I've tried to get the formula warmer than I have been but I have to try to stick the nipple in there mouth for them to latch on. I dont want to force them but if I dont stick it in their mouth, I have to keep refilling the syringe again with warm formula because it keeps getting cold super quickly!

[Spanky]

I definitely love these new syringes! However I noticed that these little babies drink really fast. I dont even have to press down on the syringe for them to get anything. I've read if they drink to fast it can cause aspiration? I am using the 1ml syringe when I feed them but I am worried they are drinking it too fast. Also after they eat the full 1ml, they seem to want more. They move around my hand like crazy and make that little puppy noise. Does that mean I should be giving them more than just 1ml? I weighed them this morning and they are both at 29grams. :dono

Also, they still squirm around ALOT before I can even get them to latch on the nipple. I've tried to get the formula warmer than I have been but I have to try to stick the nipple in there mouth for them to latch on. I dont want to force them but if I dont stick it in their mouth, I have to keep refilling the syringe again with warm formula because it keeps getting cold super quickly!

Yes, they should eat between 5% and 7% of their weight each feeding. That means 29 grams they should be eating between 1.5ml and 2ML each feeding! I am attaching a feeding cheat sheet...

We usually use multiple syringes and a hot cup of water to warm. Pull up the formula into 2 different syringes with the nipples on them and place them into the cup of very warm... almost hot.. water. Never re-use formula that was warmed for feeding and not fed... throw it out. This decreases the amount of waiting time for warming the formula.

When using a syringe to feed these babies, its not used like you see on TV someone giving a patient a shot where you press down on the plunger with a thumb. Pressing with a thumb like that does not provide a way to slow things down, which is necessary. We hold onto to the plunger which allows us to hold it back, preventing too fast of feeding which can result in aspirating, and when necessary lightly move the plunger to move formula through the nipple.

Using the method above, instead of waiting for them to latch, press just a drop or so into their mouths even if they are not latched on... this should encourage them to latch on. It will take a while for them to associate that rubber nipple with formula, so simply placing the nipple in their mouth without any formula they usually pull away or try to push the nipple aside.. .without the formula, it is just a big foreign object in their mouths.

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[momma4two]

Thank you so much for that cheat sheet! I feel horrible now that I know I wasn't giving them the full amount. Prefilling the syringes and keeping them in hot water has definitely helped alot! What a difference lol.

So another question I have. After about 2-3 hours after feeding, they start to wake up, move around, and making those puppy noises. Does that mean they are hungry? Do I still need to wait the full 3 hours? Normally when they do this I'll check to see if I can see a milk line or not but I don't. Would it be okay to feed them if I don't see a milk line?

Sorry for all the questions!

[Spanky]

So another question I have. After about 2-3 hours after feeding, they start to wake up, move around, and making those puppy noises. Does that mean they are hungry? Do I still need to wait the full 3 hours? Normally when they do this I'll check to see if I can see a milk line or not but I don't. Would it be okay to feed them if I don't see a milk line?

If after 2.5 hours you do not see the milk line and they seem hungry go ahead adn feed them. Now that you've increased the amount to the 5% minimum they will likely be okay until the 3 hour mark.

[momma4two]

Here is an update on the little ones. They both are eating well and going to the bathroom well. However, the boy is not gaining as much weight as the girl. The girl is gaining about 2-3 grams a day and the boy is only gaining about 1 gram. He is also seeming more lethargic and doesn't look like he has much muscle as the other one. I have been giving him water between feedings but not as much weight gain. He still seems to be dehydrated thats why I am still giving him water. Is there something to do with the fat content in the Esbilac and he is not getting enough? Is there something I can do to increase the fat?

[CritterMom]

Yes. You can purchase some Fox Valley Ultra Boost https://henryspets.com/fox-valley-ultraboost-for-weight-gain/ It is loved by all who use it.

Or, you can boost the formula with heavy whipping cream (the stuff in the little carton in the milk case, not the stuff in the can you sneak into the fridge and squirt into your mouth) and yogurt. For yogurt, you want to get FULL FAT yogurt and go for a flavor - no fruit chunks or anything because they won't go through a syringe. I have always used Stoneyfield YoBaby which is designed for infants. It is in a little 4 pack in fun flavors and is really digestible.

I would start with our regular 1 part formula powder, 2 parts water, then to that add 1/4 part of the heavy cream and 1/4 part yogurt. They will often go from being picky eaters to snatching the syringe away from you when you do this as it apparently REALLY makes the flavor better. I would use that for a couple days and make sure you don't see any poop issues from it. Then I would go to 1 part powder, 2 parts water, 1/2 part cream and 1/2 part yogurt and do the same thing. You can gradually ease up to 3/4 to 1 full part of the cream, but stay at the 1/2 part yogurt.

You are using so little that the cream will likely go bad before you use it up and you want to monitor it to make sure that doesn't happen, though cream has a LONG refrigerator life. Alas, the only way to avoid that is to force yourself to use the rich, thick, delicious cream in your coffee to make sure you always have fresh. It is a huge sacrifice, I know. :grin2

The little girl can have this as well.

[momma4two]

Thank you so much! I will go to the store today :grin2. I will post an update in a few days!

[momma4two]

Update on the babies. They are doing really well! Girl is at 81 grams and the boy is at 70 grams. Girl just opened her eyes and her top teeth are in. The boy still has his eyes closed but his top teeth are in as well.

Now for a question I have. Since their top teeth are in, should I get those food blocks for them? I am not sure when I should be starting that. Also, do I still need to stimulate them if they are going to the bathroom on their own?

As for how often I need to feed them, I am on schedule to feed them every 4 hours or so. They dont seem to start moving around till about that time frame. Is that to soon to feed or do I need to feed them every 5 hours? I have seen people say different stuff on how often to feed so I am not sure.

Help is much appreciated! :)

[CritterMom]

How much formula do they take per feeding?

If eyes are opening they are 5 weeks old. At 6 they can curl their tail over their back and they start being mini squirrels. I introduced the Henry's food at about 6 weeks. Just do that, and wait until they are eating the blocks really well to introduce veggies and fruit.

I would try for the next week to potty them but if they just won't and you see that they are going on their own, go ahead and let them do their thing.

[momma4two]

Right now I feed the girl 5cc and the boy 4. I've been going by the feeding chart according to their weight. They both seem like they want more after they are done. Does that mean I should be giving them a little more formula?

I will go ahead and order the food blocks so I will have it ready for next week.

Whenever I do stimulate them, they put up a huge fight with me. Sometimes they will go pee but usually it will be on me when I feed them lol. I've been changing out the blankets I have at least everyday because it gets dirty very quickly. That's why I think they are going on their own now.