what should i feed my 18 gram squirrels

[Mark]

hello i just need clarification on what formula to give my squirrels they are 18 to 19 grams just finished a can of goat milk puppy milk replacer. powdered.

[Spanky]

https://www.petag.com/products/esbilac-puppy-milk-replacer-powder

("You're killing me Smalls!!!")

[Mark]

thats what i have been giving them. that brand but the goat milk powdered puppy milk replacer or are you saying to use the regular puppy milk replacer with out the goat milk and for how long or until what weight

[CritterMom]

Do NOT use the goats milk formula - you want the plain puppy formula, powdered version only. Happily it is less expensive than the goatsmilk stuff.

They get formula until they decide to wean themselves - maybe 12 weeks or so. We suggest feeding them formula as long as they will take it.

[Spanky]

thats what i have been giving them. that brand but the goat milk powdered puppy milk replacer or are you saying to use the regular puppy milk replacer with out the goat milk and for how long or until what weight

This is the Goats Milk Esbilac that SHOULD NOT be used (Golden Retriever puppy pic?)
https://www.petag.com/products/goats-milk-esbilac-powder

This is the Esbilac Pupply Milk Replacer that you want to feed baby squirrels with the multi-colored puppy pic:
https://www.petag.com/products/esbilac-puppy-milk-replacer-powder

If you are adding Goat's Milk to the second one... stop adding it. If you are using the first one, switch to the second one...

[Mark]

ok now i have fed them a whole can of the goats milk version. do i need to do anything to switch them to the right stuff? and do i need to add anything to the milk replacer besides water or just the formula is ok?

[Mark]

not that i dont believe you because ill take experience over google any day. but why does it say to give the goatmilk version of the puppy milk replacer instead of the right one? is it a preference thing,health, or?

[Mark]

sorry for the ignorance but how important is it that they dont get more milk than the 5% of their body weight?

[CritterMom]

No idea where "google" got the info. The biggest problems with the goats milk esbilac is that goats milk goes bad pretty quickly, and so does the formula. All of the milk replacement powders need to be kept at LEAST in the refrigerator, and are better stored in the freezer. But they usually hold okay until the manufacturers seal is broken, but the goats milk formula was often rancid even at opening.

You add 2 parts water to 1 part formula powder. You can add in some additional things later if you like, but for now just do straight formula with no add ins.

[Spanky]

sorry for the ignorance but how important is it that they don,t get more milk than the 5% of their body weight?

They can have at least 5% but at this young age not more than 7% per feeding. As they get older...wee ks and weeks form now... they will likely start taking more than 7%...


not that i dont believe you because ill take experience over google any day. but why does it say to give the goatmilk version of the puppy milk replacer instead of the right one? is it a preference thing,health, or?

Because Google has never raised a baby squirrel?!? :grin2

All I can say is that we are providing the very best contemporary information we have at this point an time... there have been issues with various formulas over the years and decades, and that information lives on the Internet forever. I am not a full time rehabber, but I have raised hundreds of squirrels and I am confident as my experience can be.. you should be using the Esibilac Puppy Milk Replacer as has been recommended. That's all I can do.. provide a contemporary recommendation based upon my real experiences.


ok now i have fed them a whole can of the goats milk version. do i need to do anything to switch them to the right stuff? and do i need to add anything to the milk replacer besides water or just the formula is ok?

I believe you will be fine in switching them over without any fan-fare / extra-ordinary efforts.

I appreciate your tenacity. I would like to suggest that you stick to your original thread and keep all the info related to these babies in one single thread... it will be easier for you, easier for us and those following to have all the information related to these babies all in a single thread.... :thumbsup

[Mark]

So yesterday with the advice i got from spanky. I stopped giving my babys the goat milk esibilac and started giving them the regular esibilac at first they couldnt get enough and this morning 6 out of 8 squirrels took maybe .5 ccs. And a couple wouldnt poop when stimulated. Am i doing somthing wrong? Im doing 2 to 1 water to formula but it seem thicker then the goat milk esibilac. How serious is my issue and are my babys in danger? Any tips?

[Spanky]

Make sure the formula is very warm... hot even. It is best to mix up the formula hours ahead of time... I usually allow it to sit overnight in the fridge to allow the powder to more fully dissolve. It will keep about 48 hours in the fridge. Never re-use formula that had been warmed for feeding and not used.

Most if use will use a cup of hot water... using syringes with nipples we bathe the syringes of formula in the hot water to warm for feeding. Having multiple syringe allows a continuous rotation during feeding. You can dilute the new formula down just a bit for a few feedings and see i that helps with the transition...

Please provide an update after the next feeding...

[CritterMom]

Mark, I just explained the "heating the formula in hot water" thing here on another post - copied and pasted to you:

Keeping the formula warm: If she is taking the approx 1cc of formula, fill TWO syringes with about .5ml each, with the nipples on the end of each syringe. Fill a coffee mug with enough warm water so that if you place the syringes nipple end down in the cup, the water level rises a bit above where the milk line in the syringe is. As long as the syringe is full, the water won't enter it. You want the water in the cup a bit warmer than you normally feed the formula. Place both syringes in the water to top off the heat, then grab one, leaving the other in the water. Feed until they get a little fussy. If you haven't finished the syringe, drop it back in the water and grab the other one and keep feeding. It will be nice and warm, and in a minute or two, the remaining milk in the other one will be warmed up again.

I actually heat the formula initially this way - just load my syringes and fill the cup with hot water and let it do the heating. It takes a couple minutes, but it prevent heating it so hot initially that you kill all of the probiotics in the formula.

[Mark]

The last feeding went well. all of them ate their allowed allotment and most of their poop is starting to solidify. There were a couple who didnt poo but there was some poop in the box so im guessing they went before the feeding. How important is it that they poo every time i feed them? And spanky, it works alot better if you only warm the syringe and not the formula. Once i let the formula sit in the fridge for a while it stopped clumping up when it got warm. Helped alot. Does it still matter how you mix the formula if i let it sit in the refrigerator over night? Stirring as to shaking,blend, ect.?

[CritterMom]

The last feeding went well. all of them ate their allowed allotment and most of their poop is starting to solidify. There were a couple who didnt poo but there was some poop in the box so im guessing they went before the feeding. How important is it that they poo every time i feed them? And spanky, it works alot better if you only warm the syringe and not the formula. Once i let the formula sit in the fridge for a while it stopped clumping up when it got warm. Helped alot. Does it still matter how you mix the formula if i let it sit in the refrigerator over night? Stirring as to shaking,blend, ect.?

Don't listen to James Bond - you want it STIRRED, not shaken! While sitting overnight probably will allow bubbles created from shaking to break, I like never letting them form in the first place. Bubbles in formula = gas in baby squirrel's tummy.

It takes them a little bit to normalize once they start getting food again after being away from mom. They need to consume enough formula that there is anything for them to poop out. Once you get them on a nice schedule and everyone is eating as much as they should, they get pretty "regular."

[Spanky]

I am very happy things seem to be getting better for both you and the babies... please keep us posted on how things are progressing!

[Mark]

here are some pics of a couple of them

[Mark]

Does any one have an idea about how old they are?

[Spanky]

10 days to maybe 2 weeks old. Umbilical stumps will fall off around 10 days.

Please consider moving them to a plastic bin. Cardboard can pull a lot of moisture from them and contribute toe dehydration issues.... is that last picture the little one that has had a time of staying hydrated?

[Mark]

Yeah he is the smallest one. He is eating like a champ. But all the others are between 17 and 19 grams and he is 13 grams as of yesterday. Is diaria anything that doesnt hold its shape? Some have mustard yellow poop. And some have brown mustard colored poop. Is that normal? Should i be adding yogurt to the formula? Their umbilical cord was completely gone when i found them a week ago. Safe to assume there are atleast 17 days old? Do you have an suggestions on how i can mark them to tell the difference between them? Preferably uninvaisive. And is it normal to see their ribs like that? or am i not doing something right?

[Mark]

Looking on some different threads it says a 2 week old should weigh between 60 and 70 grams. Mine arnt even 20 grams. Whats wrong?

[Spanky]

Yeah he is the smallest one. He is eating like a champ. But all the others are between 17 and 19 grams and he is 13 grams as of yesterday. Is diaria anything that doesnt hold its shape? Some have mustard yellow poop. And some have brown mustard colored poop. Is that normal? Should i be adding yogurt to the formula? Their umbilical cord was completely gone when i found them a week ago. Safe to assume there are atleast 17 days old? Do you have an suggestions on how i can mark them to tell the difference between them? Preferably uninvaisive. And is it normal to see their ribs like that? or am i not doing something right?

Using various nail polish colors and toenails is pretty noninvasive way of doing it if you really need to do something.

Mustard / golden yellow is the correct color when they are feeding on Esbilac (or Fox Valley for that matter). They all look normal except the one little boy, I'd continue to give 1ml - 2ml of sugar water in between feedings for him.

Yogurt is not necessary for the Esbilac but you can add a bit if you're compelled to do so. However, less is more... by which I mean less changes is better; consistent in feedings (amounts, intervals and formula) is one of the most important (IMO) aspects of raising squirrels.

Those would be low weights for 17 day old grey squirrels... but looking at the pictures and considering their weight, I am becoming convinced these are maybe smaller red squirrels? Let's see if anyone else thinks so as well... I have never raised red squirrels, they are not her in the South (though I grew up in MI). If they are reds, I'd guess their weights are just about spot on....

Also, if they are reds they'll be a little more challenging and fun versus greys or foxers. Reds are quicker, many say smarter and mischief makers... with 4 it will be a fun, wild ride!

[Mark]

8 of them. And red would make sense. The fur coming in on their head does have a redish tint. I found them behind a fasia board on a house i was doing the rain gutters on.
Everything youve told me stands true on the red squirrels? Do i need to do anything more than i am doing?

[Spanky]

8 of them. And red would make sense. The fur coming in on their head does have a redish tint. I found them behind a fasia board on a house i was doing the rain gutters on.
Everything youve told me stands true on the red squirrels? Do i need to do anything more than i am doing?

Yes, all the information that has been provided is the same reds, greys, foxers and some of the more rare sub-species. Things differ a bit with some of the others, but the info you have applies to reds.

And 8 siblings kind of cements that these are red squirrels... greys and foxers do not have that many but reds sometimes can. "8" should have made bells ring in the beginning :facepalm , but I *ass*umed they were from multiple litters.... The light coloring ringing the eyes also.

[Mark]

Next question. I have short haired weasels that hunt my property. Goes after mostly mice but have seen them hunt baby rabits. Will it be ok to release the red squirrels on my property?

[Mark]

Ok all the squirrels are gaining but now they all have watery yellow poop. The only thing that ive been doing differently is pre making the formula and keeping it in the refrigerator. I only make enough for the day each time. Is this normal or am i doing something im not aware of? Any advice?

[Spanky]

Ok all the squirrels are gaining but now they all have watery yellow poop. The only thing that ive been doing differently is pre making the formula and keeping it in the refrigerator. I only make enough for the day each time. Is this normal or am i doing something im not aware of? Any advice?

It is not normal for them to have watery poops on Esbilac.

Is the opened Esbilac powder being stored in the freezer (the fridge at a minimum)... it can (all of them can, some quicker than others) go rancid in just a few days if left out at room temperature. Maybe double check the expiration date as well.

If you are using tap water to mix the formula, on many occasions it is found switching to bottled (not distilled) water makes the difference. Does not matter if it is city water or well water, we've seen this across the spectrum on occasion. Sometimes the water, while perfectly safe for humans, has something in it that these fragile babies cannot handle. I recall one really odd instance with older babies with really inexplicable anomalies like curled whiskers... switching to bottled water and a few weeks later all was good!

It also may be a good time to start preparing for their next stage / formula. Fox Valley 20/50 is for older babies (3.5 - 4 weeks), is specific for squirrels of this age.. it a switch in the amount of fats (less) and proteins (more) from the Esbilac used from birth to 3.5weeks. Henrys sells Fox Valley and they also make the best rodent blocks (they are supplement blocks) on the market... you could order it at the same time (freeze the blocks) since they have flat rate shipping. The squirrels only need to eat a couple blocks a day and then get veggies.

Some folks use "commercial extruded rodent block" like Teklad (now Envigo?) or Mazuri. When using these blocks, ~80% (or more) of what they eat needs to be block.

In either case, the first and ONLY solid foods introduced should be a high quality rodent block... this starts not long after their eyes open. They will start by mostly turning the block into crumbs before they start actually eating it.. and only after they are eating the block well do we begin introducing vegetables. With a group of 8 it will be easier, since they will want whatever the one next to them has (does not matter what it is) and tussle over it like the most valued of treasures.

[Spanky]

Next question. I have short haired weasels that hunt my property. Goes after mostly mice but have seen them hunt baby rabbits. Will it be ok to release the red squirrels on my property?

Red squirrels habitat is primarily stands of conifers (not mere tree lines)... so that is the first question, if the property is suitable to them? Are their red squirrels on the property now? If no to either, I'd start looking for place to release them... and read about soft releases needed for squirrels. It is a weeks long process so if not on your property it will become less convenient.

Those short tailed weasels are fierce hunters for sure... and very pretty in the winter (I grew up in Michigan with them). Generally, they are believed to eat mostly ground dwelling animals like rabbits, voles, mice... chipmunks.. and the like. Tree squirrels are not considered to be a part of their regular diet... but of course, I'd have little doubt they'd be willing to make the attempt and not pass up any potential meal.

We can never provide a 100% safe release site... where there are game animals, there will be predators. My personal belief, and I may be bias... no I am bias, is that a squirrel released in urban settings are more at risk from traffic, people and domestic cats and dogs than a squirrel in the woods with foxes, birds of prey, etc.

[Mark]

I didnt know i had to refrigerate it so its been sitting on the shelf this whole time. I have an unopened bag of 32/40. Can i use that until i get the 20/50? I freeze from now on. I never even considered that. Should i give them pedialyte for a couple feedings before i give them the 32/40? Or just formula? They all seem hydrated

[Spanky]

I didnt know i had to refrigerate it so its been sitting on the shelf this whole time. I have an unopened bag of 32/40. Can i use that until i get the 20/50? I freeze from now on. I never even considered that. Should i give them pedialyte for a couple feedings before i give them the 32/40? Or just formula? They all seem hydrated

We here at TSB do not recommend the FV 32/40. Too many issues with it "cementing" up in pinky's stomachs. Having said that, there are many very experienced rehabbers that continue to use it without issues... but the key is very experienced, so they can spot problems quickly and know how to deal with them. Inexperienced folks DO NOT want to find themselves facing a baby with cement gut as it has become known.

My preferred formula from 3.5 weeks to wean is a 50-50 mix of the Fox Valley 20/50 and Esbilac... So if you get another can of Esbilac it would not (mostly) go to waste if you want to use this mix the way I do (and recommend).

(We (TSB) need to try to remember to mention keeping the powder in the fridge / freezer. The stoopid label says it can be stored at room temp for 2 months, but we have ample proof that is not true! Could be puppies are less sensitive than pinky squirrels...)

A feeding of hyrdration fluid to get formula from the store, or even temporarily use the the homemade goat's milk mix:


3 tablespoons goat milk
3 tablespoons plain yogurt
2 tablespoons heavy cream

[Mark]

Ill definitely try the mix blend you suggested sounds beneficial. What are your thoughts on gas-x? I noticed air bubbles coming out with the poi. Do you think i should give them some gas x if so how much. I wont be able to get to the store until tonight. I know you guys dont recommend the 32/40 better safe than sorry but would it be too risky to give them the 32/40 just until i can get another can of the esbilac?

[Mark]

And off subject is there a way to upload photos from my cell phone or can i only do it on the computer?

[Spanky]

Ill definitely try the mix blend you suggested sounds beneficial. What are your thoughts on gas-x? I noticed air bubbles coming out with the poi. Do you think i should give them some gas x if so how much. I wont be able to get to the store until tonight. I know you guys dont recommend the 32/40 better safe than sorry but would it be too risky to give them the 32/40 just until i can get another can of the esbilac?

Gas-X (simethicone) is fine to give, just a drop.

I would never, ever recommend any that has not used 32/40 in the past to use it at all... way too risky! I know that is not convenient, but just say no to the 32/40.

[Mark]

Unfortunately all the local stores are sold out of the esbilac so i had no choice but to use the 32/40. I have 20/50 and esbilac on the way but wont be here untill Wednesday. Any tips things to look out for? All but 2 are pooping normal now but the 2 still have watery poo

[Spanky]

Make sure everything keeps moving, that the milk line goes down before the next feeding. Hard tummies.

[Tashahaven]

If you are using the 32/40, please be incredibly diligent, and make sure the milk line goes down before feeding, and feel their tummies. The tummy should feel like a water balloon. Squishy/firm-ish, NOT hard.

The issue many have experienced with that particular formula is (as Spanky said) it cementing in the belly, becoming a hard mass of matter that can’t be digested, and is fatal.

If you begin noticing ANYTHING that seems like it might be happening/starting, DO NOT feed again until checking in here first.

Since you have the 32/40 from “previous squirrels”, just make sure to check it’s not expired

🙂

[Mark]

I ordered the 32/40 after googling how to care for squirrels the day i found them. And just recieved it 2 days ago so im good on that and put the bag in the freezer after opening. I have the 20/50 coming on Wednesday. They have all been pooping some more than others but after looking more closely the 2 that have the watery poop are both females the males seem to be doing fine but the females have looser skin and weigh about 4 or 5 grams less then the males. They all had watery poo yesterday but all the males firmed up and the females didnt after i stoped the esbilac because i didnt know to keep it refrigerated. Im going to get a new can today and try the recipe i got from spanky

[Mark]

I have been doing as spanky suggested and premaking the formula and putting it in the refrigerator. I wait atleast 2 hours to use it. The females are at 19 grams and the males are between 20 and 25 grams. All the squirrels tend to start falling asleep after a little more then 1.2 ccs. Ill put some pics up in a couple hours. Let me know if anyone sees somthing wrong

[Mark]

One of my squirrels is having a hard time pooping. His poop is hard like grit. Rectum is a little swollen he is getting it out but having a hard time. Making pitiful little grunts. How can i help him?

[Spanky]

One of my squirrels is having a hard time pooping. His poop is hard like grit. Rectum is a little swollen he is getting it out but having a hard time. Making pitiful little grunts. How can i help him?

Extra fluids, dilute the 32/40 a little more than normal until the other formula arrives...

[Mark]

He pooped. I took them off the 32/40 yesterday and gave them the esbilac with half part heavy whipping cream. They all started to poop solid but 2 had trouble passing it. So i mixed the esbilac with a half part more water than normal. Until they can pass it a little easier. What do you think?

[Spanky]

That will be fine, but don't keep them on overly diluted formula for extended period... half strength formula is half the nutrients!

[Mark]

This is probably a dumb question but how soon after i give hydration fluid can i give formula

[Tashahaven]

You typically want to give fluids halfway between formula feedings. So for example if you are feeding every 4 hours, give hydration at the 2 hour mark. If every 5 hours; hydration at 2.5 hours.

[Tashahaven]

Also now that you are off the 32/40… are you feeding esbilac? Or 50:50 esbilac and 20/50?

Either way I would hold off on the heavy cream for now. Just mix the powder 2:1 and remain consistent in feeding schedule and amounts. Hopefully they will adjust and things will even out for them. If they remain underweight AFTER adjusting, and pooping, peeing, eating adequately, with no other issues, then maybe adding cream at that time. But for now, less is more. Meaning changing as little as possible. Not only are they very sensitive to changes in formula, but there’s no way to distinguish what may be causing an issue for them if multiple things change at the same time or too close together.

[Mark]

Im doing the 50/50 . The squirrels now range between 27 and 34 grams. I found multiple charts as to how much to feed them. Some say 1 to 2 ccs and others say up to 5ccs. Any suggestions?

[Spanky]

The correct answer, the only answer, is 5% - 7% of body weight per feeding.

I am attaching a cheat sheet...
325501
325500

[Mark]

Ok ive been feeding them 2 cc's every 3 hours. I have 3 or 4 of them that have diaria. What could be the cause? The formula is good. Should i go back to every 2 hours? Add heavy cream? Or?

[Tashahaven]

Clarify a couple things for us please:

1. What is the exact formula you are now feeding them?

2. Are you preparing the formula in advance and letting it sit in the fridge? Mixing gently not shaking?

3. 2:1? Correct?

4. How are you heating the formula? And are you throwing away any formula that has been heated but not used?

5. are these babies kept thoroughly warm in the enclosure and while feeding as best as possible?

6. is the powdered formula kept in the freezer?

7. *important* when are you weighing them? This should be done each morning BEFORE feeding anything to get the most accurate weights.

8. How often are you offering formula? And are you making sure the milk line has gone down before giving more?

[Mark]

I have them in a plastic container with a couple t shirts on a heating pad half off so the can move away. All formula is kept in freezer mixing 2 scoops esbilac 2 scoops fv 20/50 and 8 scoops bottled water. I bring the water to a boil let it sit for 5 minutes before i add the water. Then i mix it until all the lumps are gone then put it in the refrigerator at around 9 pm and i use it starting 4 am then i mix again let sit for 10 min. Get the syringe filled then i fill a cup up with water brewed through a coffee maker i then put the cup on a cup warmer i put the filled syringes in the cup. I only heat the formula in the syringes then put the formula back in the refrigerator and do the feeding. There is 8 of them so after i feed 2 i replace the hot water with new hot water to ensure the formula stays warm while feeding. Then i clean and stimulate them. They were pooping normal and then after the 930 feeding a couple of them had very watery diaria. What are your thoughts?

[Spanky]

Be careful about not using too hot of water to mix the formula... I see you are boiling it. If the water it too hot the probiotics will be killed, and they help to prevent the tummy issues.

Edit: Removed the original Google info.... I think that was too low so I looked more. Seems (after more research) like temps above 135 F is when the probiotics start dying off. Makes more sense to me since my water heater is 130 F and I use the hottest tap water to mix mine...

[Mark]

Ok i seem to be on the right track. My only concern is i dont think im feeding enough. They are between 30 and 35 grams. Ive been giving 2 cc's and it doesn't seem to be enough. All of their bottom teeth are coming in and a couple are starting to open their eyes. Just for a second. I found them on the 20th and had no sign of umbilical stump so had to be atleast 10 days. So im thinking they have to be 4 weeks. Should i let them eat more than 2 cc's? How detrimental is giving more than 7%body weight?

[Spanky]

Ok i seem to be on the right track. My only concern is i dont think im feeding enough. They are between 30 and 35 grams. Ive been giving 2 cc's and it doesn't seem to be enough. All of their bottom teeth are coming in and a couple are starting to open their eyes. Just for a second. I found them on the 20th and had no sign of umbilical stump so had to be atleast 10 days. So im thinking they have to be 4 weeks. Should i let them eat more than 2 cc's? How detrimental is giving more than 7%body weight?

As they get older many do tend to start eating more than the 7%. At 4 weeks plus, you would be okay to let them eat a bit more... but go up slowly. If the stools loosen or get whitish, back off the amount.

Are they all over the bouts of diarrhea?

It is detrimental to feed younger babies... especially the first 3 weeks or so... too much.

[Mark]

Awsome. The diarrhea seems to have past. Most have yellow grain like poop but a few have soft but whole poop. Not watery like it was. I think it was because i was using hot water to mix the formula. I weighed them this morning and they all weigh between 35 and 41 grams

[Spanky]

Goods news... okay, now time for "steady as she goes" for the next few weeks and months! :thumbsup

[Mark]

Now their eyes are open and running around their plastic container like they know what they are doing. My next step is building them an enclosure. Any idea what would be suitable? Should i keep them indoors until i ween them? What can i do to make their release as smooth as posible?

[Mark]

Ok i have an issue with one of the girls. Her poop dark yellow with chunks and a little watery. Any ideas?
Is it ok to feed them until they start pooping or am i giving to much when that happens? 7 of the 8 have solid yellow grain like poop some a little darker which im assuming is good?

[Spanky]

Ok i have an issue with one of the girls. Her poop dark yellow with chunks and a little watery. Any ideas?
Is it ok to feed them until they start pooping or am i giving to much when that happens? 7 of the 8 have solid yellow grain like poop some a little darker which im assuming is good?

Can you post a picture of the poops? I know it is gross, but paints the picture better than words can! Post what looks both good and bad to you. And please confirm what formula you are currently using... e.g plain FV 20/50, Esbilac.. .a mix.. is anything added (cream, yogurt, other).

[Mark]

I have a pic of it but for some reason i cant post from my phone so i have to use the computer it will be a little while but i message you when i get it up. Im using the 2 part esbilac 2part 20/50 8 parts warm filtered water at 120 degrees. I haven't been putting anything else i make it at around 10pm at thier last feeding of the night and put it in the fridge until 430 am at the next feeding. I was trying to find a milk line but with their white bellies its almost impossible to see. What kind of schedule do you think i should be keeping?

[Spanky]

I have a pic of it but for some reason i cant post from my phone so i have to use the computer it will be a little while but i message you when i get it up. Im using the 2 part esbilac 2part 20/50 8 parts warm filtered water at 120 degrees. I haven't been putting anything else i make it at around 10pm at thier last feeding of the night and put it in the fridge until 430 am at the next feeding. I was trying to find a milk line but with their white bellies its almost impossible to see. What kind of schedule do you think i should be keeping?

Thanks for confirming the formula mix...

I feed 4 weeks olds every 4 hours around the clock. Once their eyes open, I increase to about every 4.5hours and go 6 hours overnight (assuming healthy babies, otherwise I continue overnight feedings). Sometime between 6 - 7 weeks they are eating every 5 hours and go 7 hours overnight.

[Mark]

When should i start offering rodent block? What kind of rodent block should i offer? Their top teeth should be coming in any day now. Bottom already in. I had pics of the poo but now i cant find them. But her poo is back to normal. Ill take some more pics shortly of the poo i think is good . Let me know what you think. Is it normal for them to pee alot at one time?

[Spanky]

Not long after their eyes open I start cutting the blocks in half and putting them in with them... you want the block to be the first and only solid food they get until they are eating it well. At first, they will simply shred it up but after some time they will start actually eating it.

When the time comes to start introducing other foods, always feed the block first when they are most hungry. It will make life easier establishing this pattern / habit early. Speaking of which, your having 8 siblings reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwfFPSOoLKU

One advantage of a group over a singleton is by their very nature, they always want whatever their siblings have so here they are at about 9 weeks eating Henry's while I prepare the rest of their breakfast.

Henry's is a supplement block and they only need to eat 2 a day... less when they are younger. And they get lots of healthy veggies and some fruit along with the Henry's.
https://henryspets.com/picky-blocks-food-for-squirrels-flyers-rats-and-mice/

Don't bother with the regular "healthy" version, get the picky... I also use picky and the wild bites for variety. Most folks have good luck with the Hazelnut as well...

Henry's if flat rate shipping, so load up and put them in the freezer when they arrive. Take out only a day's worth at a time.

Healthy food pyramid:
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels

You can also use commercially extruded rodent block like Teklad or Mazuri, but they need to be about 80% of their entire diet...

[Spanky]

Now their eyes are open and running around their plastic container like they know what they are doing. My next step is building them an enclosure. Any idea what would be suitable? Should i keep them indoors until i ween them? What can i do to make their release as smooth as posible?

Have you decided to release them at you place or somewhere else? That would affect what I might recommend if you intend on building a cage... we usually use 2X2 and 1/2" hardware cloth.

[Mark]

Im going to release them at my house. It will be winter when they are ready to go and i want to be able to supply them with food until they can fend for themselves. What do you think would give them the best shot at a long life?
I have one squirrel who seems to be a little bloated and doesnt want to eat. Could he just be full or did i do something wrong? I tried stimulating a few times and doesnt want to pee or poo. Any thoughts?

[Spanky]

Im going to release them at my house. It will be winter when they are ready to go and i want to be able to supply them with food until they can fend for themselves. What do you think would give them the best shot at a long life?
I have one squirrel who seems to be a little bloated and doesnt want to eat. Could he just be full or did i do something wrong? I tried stimulating a few times and doesnt want to pee or poo. Any thoughts?


I am sorry I did not see this sooner... I was away most of the afternoon and evening. Is the bloated one still bloated? If yes, small amounts of water only, no more formula until he "deflates". Giving a drop of Infants simethicone (AKA Gax-X) can help as well.

I will a picture of a cage I built that may give you some ideas. If I forget, remind me to post the pics!

[Mark]

No worries spank. no more diarrhea. But her poo is pale yellow. They are up to 55 to 66 grams are eating between 3 and 3 and a half ml. But i haven't had a few of them poo in 2 feedings. Are they pooping on their own or should i be worried? Their stomachs seem fine. Their eyes are open whenever they arnt sleeping. Is it still ok to keep them in the plastic tub? 8 of them? How much longer do i need the heating pad. in the 80s here in wi. No top teeth yet

[Spanky]

No worries spank. no more diarrhea. But her poo is pale yellow. They are up to 55 to 66 grams are eating between 3 and 3 and a half ml. But i haven't had a few of them poo in 2 feedings. Are they pooping on their own or should i be worried? Their stomachs seem fine. Their eyes are open whenever they arnt sleeping. Is it still ok to keep them in the plastic tub? 8 of them? How much longer do i need the heating pad. in the 80s here in wi. No top teeth yet

They'll probably need a large space soon... but if it is a big tub they can stay there a while longer. Usually they will start sleeping on the side of the tub that is not heated when they no longer need or require heat. I'd think they are close if not already ready for the heat to be stopped.

Generally when their eyes open they are able to potty one their own... a lot of use continue to potty them for a few weeks after (until they stoop allowing it) just because that keeps their environment cleaner.

Good news on the stools firming up.. :thumbsup

[Spanky]

Im going to release them at my house. It will be winter when they are ready to go and i want to be able to supply them with food until they can fend for themselves. What do you think would give them the best shot at a long life?

The "standard" release cages I use are 4' X 8' panels built with 2X2 lumber and 1/2" hardware cloth. They are assembled with carriage bolts into a 8' tall, 8' long and 4' wide cage. I'll typically attach a 2'x2'x6' "phone booth" looking vestibule with a 2'x2'x4' "attic. The phone booth is to provide a double door to safeguard against self-releases (AKA escapes). The attic includes a nest box and at release time they pass from the big cage to the attic through a portal and there is another portal from the attic to the world... This might be over-kill and more than most need. The panel construction works great for me because I can break them down to relocate, replace panels when needed, etc.

My most recent cage was inspired by member Javarat's cages... I think there are posts here Javarat put up of his version of the cage pictured below many years ago.

His concept was great... make a cage that can hold a number of squirrels, it will fit through doorway so it can be used indoors or out. Perfectly fine to use as a release cage IMO.

I based my build starting with washing machine pans, the plastic Oatley 28" X 30" version. These are what I use as drop pans at the bottom / underneath the cage and I slip them into a slot / space from the front of the cage like a drawer... its the in and out where I have manged to crack the pans.

Full disclosure: I wish I had started with the metal washing machine pans... and since they are different sizes, I cannot swap on this cage. However, the plastic would be fine for 1 group of squirrel or even several seasons... I think I have used this one for 3 years / 6 seasons and the original pans are still working and not busted up too much... and I have learned to be more careful putting them in and taking them out. But once I replace them, I'll have the same $$$ invested as I would have for the metal pans which are basically twice the price.... but my needs, use and volume are different from most folks like yourself here on TSB.

You could probably use smaller dishwasher pans and still have a large enough cage for these guys and the release. Keep in mind many people use, and I started by using, a "Critter Nation" cage for release.. which is about 20 maybe 25% the space of this cage (you can see those Critter style cages behind this one).

I cannot say for certain what this would cost to build, because I already had most of the materials... the lumber, the hardware cloth as well as most of the hardware. I had to buy hinges, the washing machine pans and a corrugated panel I clamp to the top when it is outdoors as a release cage. And, I also have an "attic" that gets attached the top when it is being used as a release cage. This one has no vestibule and feeding is through a door just large enough to fit the feeding bowl through... and I cam sure prices have gone up since per-pandemic?

I would suspect you could build this for comparable costs to a new Critter Nation cage... and being handy helps. I am extremely handy, but handy enough to get the job done at my own pace!

Some day I will build another one of these and switch up some things. This cage is really too tall for babies until they are 8 - 9 weeks old, maybe older. One thing I think I would do is "re-orient" the build so I could separate into two spaces, closing off the top form the bottom? That way the top, and / or the bottom could be used for younger babies and then opened up when they are ready. I think I would do this by having a "hinged" middle shelf so half of it latches down to split the cage, then simply flip it all the way over and latch it down to open up the top portion of the cage... I hope that description makes sense?

The attics' outer portal is always open and there is a nest box in there as I said. This, for me, so to provide a "safe space" for releases to return if they are sick or injured.. sometimes I they have chosen to have babies in the attics nest box. They have this safe space to return to even if I have rotated the next group for release into the main cage... and I have had to place another portal directly to the world when I find it is time for release but the attic (or the vestibule on my largest, unmovable, release cage. That cage is 10' X 14' and the vestibule is about the size of this cage pictured.

For one-time releases the attics are not necessary and you can leave the entire cage open for them?

Let me know if this helps or if there are specific questions?
325573
325574
325575

[Spanky]

325576
325577

[Mark]

Can i use formula left unrefrigerated for four hours?

[Spanky]

Make up a fresh batch and use that... these guys should be old enough to tolerate the larger particles at their age IMO.

[Mark]

Hey spanky i found an injured house sparrow and have no idea how to care for it. Do you? If not could you put me in touch with a rehabber that could take it or coach me on how to care for it

[Spanky]

Hey spanky i found an injured house sparrow and have no idea how to care for it. Do you? If not could you put me in touch with a rehabber that could take it or coach me on how to care for it

I am no good with birds, just mammals. At least make a new post on TSB, there are some bird experienced folks that hopefully will see your post...

[Mark]

I just got my picky rodent block. Its soft and moldable and says to freeze immediately. The squirrels are getting their top teeth now. How do i give it to them? Do i heat it up, or defrost before giving it to them? Im assuming not to give it to them frozen?

[Spanky]

I just got my picky rodent block. Its soft and moldable and says to freeze immediately. The squirrels are getting their top teeth now. How do i give it to them? Do i heat it up, or defrost before giving it to them? Im assuming not to give it to them frozen?

They do not have preservatives, hence directions to freeze. Most of us buy many bags (and some many dozens?) at a time because of the flat shipping rate charged by Henry's.

Every day take out just what you need for the day... I usually cut them in half for the young ones. With eight I would maybe start with 4 halves because at first they'll just be shredding it. Then add 2 more halves in a few days time and get that up to 4 halves each morning and evening when they are eating them. After that, they can start fo be introduced to veggies...

[Mark]

What vegetables do you recommend i start with? Do i warm them up or give to them frozen

[Spanky]

What vegetables do you recommend i start with? Do i warm them up or give to them frozen

Below is the healthy squirrel diet pyramid which has good information on what is better, what is okay and what to avoid etc. That last one, things to avoid, is good to review because there are things we'd likely believe would be okay (bell peppers, white potatoes as examples).

I am assuming the frozen question is about the Henry's? Don't give them frozen, but they really only need about 30 minutes to thaw out. But it really is easiest to remove from the freezer the night before, just enough for the next day and place in a Tupperware dish in the fridge.

If about frozen veggies, it is okay to use frozen but avoid canned. But I stick with fresh and as a bones have some folks that donate quite a bit from their gardens!

When introducing fresh veggies I'd suggest starting off with just one or two vegetables, mostly so I know if something is disagreeable for any reason. If you give them 6 things to start and they get diarrhea, hard to know which is the culprit? Squash (both winter and summer), sugar snaps, avocado, cauliflower, sweet potato, carrots, radicchio, kale, green beans, fresh corn are some of my regular menu items. Fruits come later and are on the pyramid, but are smaller part of their diet.

A TSB legend shared advice to me years ago... the morning / daytime mix should include the leafy greens while the evening more of the bulky veggies... the leafy stuff, if uneaten, tends to wilt and be rejected after it wilts. The morning feeding, they'll graze all day long but the evening its a few hours then off to bed... but the bulky stuff they are happy to munch on at first light but the wilted leafs will get pushed aside.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels

PS As a aside, it is unbelievable (inconceivable?) that Tupperware is bankrupt! I think they simply made too good a product. I don't mean that in bad way, but you pretty much only needed to get new Tupperware every 10 - 15 years (unless family took it home and not returned it!). I think we still are using some Tupperware that is at least 15 years old.

[Spanky]

All formula is kept in freezer mixing 2 scoops esbilac 2 scoops fv 20/50 and 8 scoops bottled water. I bring the water to a boil let it sit for 5 minutes before i add the water.

If this was advice from Reddit, it would be great if you could return to Reddit and let them know this is bad advice as boiling water will kill off the probiotics in the formula and cause diarrhea and other issues. The probiotics will start to die about 120 degrees and 165 degrees will completely kill every probiotic in the mix (there are multiple varieties... Lactobacillus casei*, Lactobacillus fermentum*, Lactobacillus acidophilus*, Lactobacillus plantarum*, Enterococcus faecium*, Bifidobacterium bifidum*, Pediococcus acidilactici*).

There have been 2 recent folks showing up on TSB that had been given this advice on Reddit.

[Mark]

I dont take advice from reddit. The boiling water was just ignorance at its finest. I figured if i boiled the water it would stay warm longer. It never occurred to me until you explained it to me. It made perfect sense about killing the probiotics and it was true. Once you explained it to me i stoped immediately and the diarrhea stopped as well. So definitely sound advice

[Mark]

When should i start letting the squirrels outside? What temperature should it be for the first time? Should i let them run free? Or in a cage? I have a half of bag of 20/50 but just ran out of esbilac is it ok to use just the 20/50 since they are in the process of weaning? Besides pine nuts is there any other foods i should stay away from? Is there any other questions i should be asking?

[Spanky]

When should i start letting the squirrels outside? What temperature should it be for the first time? Should i let them run free? Or in a cage? I have a half of bag of 20/50 but just ran out of esbilac is it ok to use just the 20/50 since they are in the process of weaning? Besides pine nuts is there any other foods i should stay away from? Is there any other questions i should be asking?

They go outside in a release cage at no earlier than 14 weeks. They remain in the cage for 2 weeks or more and then a "portal" (about 3" X 3".. maybe 2.5" X 2.5" for reds?!?!? :dono) is opened allowing them to come and go as they wish. The first few nights you may want to hang around at dusk to help them find their way "home". They may even choose to overwinter in the release cage, coming and going (maybe only some of them). It provides a safe space for them to retreat. Best to put them out initially when there is a few days of mild weather expected... no thunderstorms and what not.
Soft release info:
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?41071-SOFT-RELEASE-The-How-to-Sticky

NEVER let them "run free", they will run away (hard release/self release) and hard release decreases survival chances by 90. They need to be outdoors observing the world and the wild red squirrels to learn about predators etc. This is why it is important the release sight has red squirrels. Squirrels are not naturally afraid of predators, it is a learned behavior. This is why so many juveniles are "caught" by cats and dogs... they walk right up to them (people too), especially those who have lost their mothers.

If you have not reviewed the healthy diet, it is pat time to do so... it includes what to avoid (avoid ALL nuts before the release cage JMO):
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels

Yes, you can use the 20/50 by itself.

[Mark]

I didnt realize i ran out of rodent block its gonna be 3 to 7 days before i get my order. What should i feed them in the meantime? Im already giving fruit and vegetables as well as formula. Will that service or do i do more?

[Spanky]

I don't think there is much choice other than continue the veggies and formula until the blocks arrive..

[Mark]

Maybe i could have worded it differently. Is there any particular vegetable or vegetables that will compensate for the nutritional loss of not having the block? Should i offer formula more often then twice a day since i dont have the rodent block. Is it feasible to make my own block?

[Spanky]

Making your own block typically includes buying the protein and vitamin packs from Henry's so the same delay as waiting for blocks (making them using these products can save some money).

Offering an additional formula feeding is a good idea... I would withhold treats like nuts for sure.

They should be okay without block for a few days... not ideal, but not a complete disaster.

[Mark]

Well i have my block baking. I used store bought organic ingredients such as 100% protein whey ,aluminum free baking powder almonds pecans vinilla extract almond extract and eggs. I used half the recommended amount of repti calcium with d3 supplement due to them not getting natural light. Is there anything wrong with anything i used that im unaware of?