~3 Weeks Old with Diarrhea

[Buddy]

Hi! My neighbor found 4 babies (on Thursday evening). She let me know on Friday. Apparently their nest fell; we tried to reunite the babies with their mama with no success. :(

Since Friday, I've been giving them goat milk home formula (around 3-4 cc, every 4-5 hours including at night) [They really don't want to eat more than that] and some water mixed with very little honey and some salt (maybe 2-3 times so far).

3 of them are 72-74 grams already. When I got them, they were ~60-62 grams (smallest 60; others around 62)

That smallest one, little girl is now 70 grams (she was like ~60 grams). She is picky and eats slightly less than the others and not as willingly / enthusiastically.

While the others seem to be pooing fine, this little girl has a pretty bad diarrhea.

It could be becase she is on the smaller end, she might be overfed?

Yesterday noonish, she has a softer stool, and last night and this morning, very watery, light yellow poo. I'm putting a picture of small one that came after all the water / poop etc. Basically the end of pooing.

They were definitely dehydrated and they seem to be better; but that small girl seems still dehydrated.

I got pedialyte this morning and I gave them all 3 cc pedialyte instead of formula. (Last feeding was at 2 am - pedialyte at 7 am).

What else should I do for this little girl?

I had order fox valley but it hasn't arrived yet. I did order fox valley dia-stat last night with fastest shipping and it says it should arrive anytime between 2-6 pm today.

They have the heater on in half of the container. They are all warm.

[Buddy]

Trying to send a pic

[Buddy]

Here are all of them

[Buddy]

Should I feed them and especially the small little girl with diarrhea smaller amount but more frequent? Or is it better to give longer breaks for recovery? Should I feed her again goat milk formula or continue with pedialyte until the dia-stat comes??

[sissyandbubba]

May I ask for the goat's milk formula you are using. :grouphug

[Spanky]

While the others seem to be pooing fine, this little girl has a pretty bad diarrhea.

It could be becase she is on the smaller end, she might be overfed?

Yesterday noonish, she has a softer stool, and last night and this morning, very watery, light yellow poo. I'm putting a picture of small one that came after all the water / poop etc. Basically the end of pooing.

They were definitely dehydrated and they seem to be better; but that small girl seems still dehydrated.

I got pedialyte this morning and I gave them all 3 cc pedialyte instead of formula. (Last feeding was at 2 am - pedialyte at 7 am).

What else should I do for this little girl?

I had order fox valley but it hasn't arrived yet. I did order fox valley dia-stat last night with fastest shipping and it says it should arrive anytime between 2-6 pm today.


The little girl's poo does not look to be from overfeeding, since that is usually a whitish color. If there is egg in the GMF you are using, stop adding that... if there is only cream you can continue that but no egg... if no egg stop adding cream... some of these little ones simply cannot deal with the egg and / or cream. When the Fox Valley arrives (hopefully it is the 20/50?)... start transitioning them as soon as possible.. you may not ever find out if it is the egg OR the cream (assuming both in the mix) if you change over to FV before experimenting with no egg/ no cream.

Hydration is a key to everything since a dehydrated baby cannot, will not be able to properly digest formula and get the needed nutrients.

I suggest you dilute the Pedialyte 1 part pedialyte with 1 part sugar water (1 cup of water with 1 teaspoon of molasses, honey, syrup or sugar (in my order of preference). There is a lot more salts in the Pedialyte which is made for humans than we'd prefer to give to squirrels.

For the litter girl, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate even if it means substituting hydration for formula for an entire day... hopefully it will not take that long though.

So even if it takes 4 - 5 feedings, get her hydrated.

If you think the other need a bit more hydration, at this point offer the hydration (2ml or so) in between feedings but keep them on the feeding schedule.

DiaStat is awesome, I am so glad it is on its way.... my go-to for diarhea. Start the little girl on the DiaStat when it arrives if she still has diarhea... DiaStat contains some easily digestible ingredients that ass quite few calories to their intake which can make an enormous difference... not to mention how well it resolves simple Diarhea.

[Spanky]

Should I feed them and especially the small little girl with diarrhea smaller amount but more frequent? Or is it better to give longer breaks for recovery? Should I feed her again goat milk formula or continue with pedialyte until the dia-stat comes??

The little girls diarrhea need to stop and her hydration resolved before resuming formula. If the others are pooing okay, keep them on their normal feeding schedule... less is often more, by which I mean the fewer the changes.. the more consistent their routine... the better are the results.

I think the above that was posted in the meantime / cross posting will answer the questions... if not, ask away..

[Buddy]

Thank you so much! I have molasses so I will make the pedialyte-water+molasses mix.

Yes, the goat milk had egg, but when she had soft stool yesterday, I had already removed the egg. It's just goat milk + yogurt + heavy cream.


"less is often more, by which I mean the fewer the changes.. the more consistent their routine... the better are the results."

Just to clarify, you're saying do not feed frequently; right? what should be the optimum feeding schedule for them; every 4 hours? Should I get up and feed at night?

For the little girl; what if she doesn't take much; still wait until the next feeding time?

Oh, and I ordered FV 20/50.

[Buddy]

Also, which formula should I use? This is what Henry's says (https://henryspets.com/3-how-to-feed-a-baby-squirrel/):

Homemade Goat Milk Formula Plus (HGMF+):

3 tablespoons goat milk
3 tablespoons plain yogurt
2 tablespoons heavy cream
˝ egg yolk


This is from the squirrel board (from Island Rehabber (https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?29904-TEMPORARY-Goat-s-Milk-Formula***)):

3 parts goat’s milk
1 part heavy whipping cream
1 part vanilla yogurt


I've been using the one above + 1/2 egg yolk, but yesterday mid-day I stopped the egg.

Which is a better formula for these ~3 weeks old ones??

[Spanky]

Thank you so much! I have molasses so I will make the pedialyte-water+molasses mix.

Yes, the goat milk had egg, but when she had soft stool yesterday, I had already removed the egg. It's just goat milk + yogurt + heavy cream.

"less is often more, by which I mean the fewer the changes.. the more consistent their routine... the better are the results."

Just to clarify, you're saying do not feed frequently; right? what should be the optimum feeding schedule for them; every 4 hours? Should I get up and feed at night?

I am attaching the feeding schedules and amounts cheat sheets. At 3 weeks they would be eating every 3-4 hours Around The Clock (ATC).

At 75grams they should be eating 4-5ml each feeding.


For the little girl; what if she doesn't take much; still wait until the next feeding time?

Do not feed her formula until and unless she is fully hydrated. Once hydrated, if she does not eat the full amount you can feed more frequently, but that is not ideal. But we always want the stomach to be empty (or almost completely empty) of formula before the next feeding.. this is because feeding new formula when the stomach still has some formula from prior feedings can result in bloat. Bloat can be deadly (never feed a bloated baby).

Are you familiar with Aspiration Pneumonia and how they click when they have AP? Make sure this little girl is not clicking.


Also, which formula should I use? This is what Henry's says (https://henryspets.com/3-how-to-feed-a-baby-squirrel/):

This is from the squirrel board (from Island Rehabber (https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?29904-TEMPORARY-Goat-s-Milk-Formula***)):

3 parts goat’s milk
1 part heavy whipping cream
1 part vanilla yogurt


Which is a better formula for these ~3 weeks old ones??

The best formula is Fox Valley 20/50. The better of the GMF is this one without egg. The one with egg is an attempt to include additional protein and make the GMF "suitable" formula to feed up until about 3.5 weeks. I am not a fan, too many issues and not great results IMO. The formula above that Island Rehabber posted is a tried and true formulation that is used temporarily until Esbilac and / or Fox Valley can be obtained.

325369

[Buddy]

Thanks!

They all seem to get full very quickly (basically after ~3 cc). I've been feeding them every ~3-4 hours ATC; except last night to this morning; which was 5 hours.

I'm thankfully not familiar personally with AP; but I know what that is. Thankfully, none of the babies are clicking.🙏

[Buddy]

One other baby has a loose stool too. Should I feed both Dia-Stat when it arrives and how long should I be feeding Dia-Stat?

[Spanky]

One other baby has a loose stool too. Should I feed both Dia-Stat when it arrives and how long should I be feeding Dia-Stat?

Yes, feed the ones with diarrhea Dia-Stat instead of formula for 2 consecutive feedings. They can have additional hydration in between feedings.

If the Fox Valley has not arrived, I would mix up a new batch of GMF and leave out the heavy cream (in addition to leaving out the egg)...

[Buddy]

The babies seem to be doing better. Diarrhea in one baby has almost gone; the little girl is also doing better.

I gave them dia-stat twice, and it helped with the boy, but little girl's stool is still soft (not watery, but still soft).

They are all 80-82 grams; except the little girl. She is now 74 grams or so.

The one baby seems to be super dehydrated; but he actually eats well (he was the one with slightly loose stool). He is looking like his skin is 2 size larger. And as you can see in the picture, when I pinch, it stays like that for a long time.

Should I stop giving formula and keep hydrating him instead?

This is a photo after I fed them; so their bellies are full.

By the way, that baby with loose skin, he was like that from the very beginning; even before diarrhea.

[Buddy]

By the way, I try not to overfeed, but they are barely finishing their 3 cc, if I'm lucky 4cc. But I give them pedialyte mix in between a few times too.

[Buddy]

Does anyone have a comment on how the babies look and my question on the dehydration??

[Mel1959]

Give pedialyte for no more than 24 hours. If hydration is needed after that use plain water with just a touch of honey for sweetness, too much sweetener can result in making the diarrhea worse.

I can see the loose skin on the one little one. Continue to provide him extra water between feedings.

[Spanky]

Hydration is a key to everything since a dehydrated baby cannot, will not be able to properly digest formula and get the needed nutrients.

For the little girl, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate even if it means substituting hydration for formula for an entire day... hopefully it will not take that long though.

So even if it takes 4 - 5 feedings, get her hydrated.


Does anyone have a comment on how the babies look and my question on the dehydration??

Yes, that baby is dehydrated. I would again substitute the formula with Dia-Stat (in addition to fighting diarrhea, it is an effective hydration solution) for 2 more feedings today... even more if she is not taking the full feeding amount. She needs to get hydrated, over the hum or this battle with hydration will continue to go on far too long.

As Mel said, stop the pedialyte and switch to just some sweetened water when giving hydration between feedings.

Make sure the formula is warm, decreased interest in feeding can be a result of the formula not being warm (hot) enough.

[Buddy]

Thank you both! 🙏 I think the other 3 were and still are a bit bloated. I think that's why their weight is so high. I gave them all warm water bath and they all pooped a bit and peed.

Actually, all of them kind of have loose skin. Should I give them all dia-stat 2 consecutive feedings? The FV 20/50 also arrived yesterday so I've been giving that.

[Spanky]

Actually, all of them kind of have loose skin. Should I give them all dia-stat 2 consecutive feedings?

The others do not look bad in the picture, but of course you are there with them and have better assessment than we do with the pics. Definitely the dehydrated one should get DiaStat.. .if you believe the other could use additional hydration, the DiaStat is not going to hurt anything. Minimally offer them a few ml of sweetened water between feedings.

If you are keeping them in a cardboard box, please move them to a plastic bin... cardboard can cause dehydration by pulling out moisture (it's kind of a weird phenom, you would think it could make that big of a difference but it does).

[Buddy]

Thank you! 🙏 They are not in a cardboard box.

[Buddy]

Babies are doing better. 🙏 :grouphug Diarrhea has stopped. They are all peeing and pooing regularly.

The one that looks like dehydrated is really different than the rest. He is actually a lot bigger. He is almost 90 grams now; others are 80-82; the little girl is still the smallest. :Love_Icon

Left photo is from yesterday and the right one is from a few hours ago. :Love_Icon

[CritterMom]

Aw.

Wait until all four are squirrelnado-ing around your body... :grin2

[Buddy]

A few minutes after I fed them... :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :grouphug

They are all on their back... :Love_Icon

Buddy used to sleep like this all the time! :Love_Icon

[Buddy]

I thought they were doing great; but one of the babies is having a very light yellow poos. His appetite is not as great either. He is about ~76 grams and in this last feeding; he barely ate half of the 3cc syringe.

They are all above 75 grams and they barely finish the 3cc.

Since they are not eating enough, I've been giving their food on the clock every 3-4 hours. Maybe I'm overfeeding? What should the frequency be for them? Especially, when they don't eat; should I give the next meal earlier or wait at least 4 hours? I've been also giving some water in between feedings. They still seem dehydrated; still lose skins when they are not full.

Here's the photo of the poo -- sorry, I thought I took a picture already and put it in the trash; but realized I didn't... so I took it out and took a picture... sleeping less than ideal catching up... :)

[Buddy]

Also, they are warm. They stay in glass aquarium; that has non-stop heater under one side and hot water thing wrapped in wool; tons of fleece blanket. I check on them regularly; they are always warm.

I give their FV 20/50 very warm; but sometimes the hot water thing I put the syringe in gets cold and even then the milk is still warm; never cold; but maybe not as warm as they like; and when that happens they stop drinking anyways.

I have 2 3cc syringe; so I rotate the milk in hot water while I feed one; but now that I have 4; that means; sometimes I have to wait for 8 round to get warm milk.

Can I keep enough milk in a glass and put the glass into a hotwater thing (like the left side)? Would that be acceptable? I tried today and it was faster; but not sure if the milk quality suffers like this?

[Buddy]

Here's their setup... I raised Buddy (who was just a few days old when we found him) all like this; but it's so much more difficult to take care of 4... Let me know if I'm doing anything wrong.

[Spanky]

I give their FV 20/50 very warm; but sometimes the hot water thing I put the syringe in gets cold and even then the milk is still warm; never cold; but maybe not as warm as they like; and when that happens they stop drinking anyways.

I have 2 3cc syringe; so I rotate the milk in hot water while I feed one; but now that I have 4; that means; sometimes I have to wait for 8 round to get warm milk.

Can I keep enough milk in a glass and put the glass into a hotwater thing (like the left side)? Would that be acceptable? I tried today and it was faster; but not sure if the milk quality suffers like this?

3ml syringes are still pretty big for anything under 100grams so be very careful...

If the formula is not hot... not warm, but hot... I suspect that will cause them to eat less. You can try every 4 hours and see if their appetites improve but also be sure to feed around the clock. How much water are you providing in between feedings?

Never reuse formula that was warmed for feeding but not used...

Consider having 2 or 3 glasses of hot water instead of just one to bathe the syringes in to heat them up..

[Buddy]

Thank you! 🙏

I give water in between feedings (and not always) basically however much they are willing to take; but they never drink more than 3-5 sips; less than probably 1ml.

I'll make sure their milk is very warm next time and wait 4 hours at least. Also, by the time I start feeding one and done with the last one; it's like already 45 min (each is fed and then sitimulated etc, and then wait for the next set of milk to be warmed). So, should I wait 4 hours after the last one is fed or 4 hours after I start feeding them and try to keep them on the same sequence?

And, no, I never reuse warmed formula; whatever is not eaten, it is thrown away.

[Buddy]

How long would it take to change the color of the poo, if everything is done properly? He still has whiteish poo. :(

[Spanky]

Also, by the time I start feeding one and done with the last one; it's like already 45 min (each is fed and then sitimulated etc, and then wait for the next set of milk to be warmed). So, should I wait 4 hours after the last one is fed or 4 hours after I start feeding them and try to keep them on the same sequence?

Maybe feed every 3:45 to split the difference?


How long would it take to change the color of the poo, if everything is done properly? He still has whiteish poo. :(

White-ish poo typically indicates over-feeding, but if they are not eating at least 5% that would be strange. :thinking Is anything being added to the FV? Maybe give the new feeding schedule a day and see how it goes...

[Buddy]

So I did 7 pm feeding last night, then 11:00 pm; they all ate around 3-4 ml - except the biggest one (he is about 90 grams); he ate about 6ml and then again 3:00 am and they ate 3-4 ml (except the biggest; which he ate 6 ml), this morning at 7 am, the biggest one did eat about 2ml and didn't want to eat anymore.

2 of them have whiteish poos. :( Although they don't seem to be lethargic or anything like that.

I'm wondering if I should feed pedialyte+molasses mixture for 2-3 feedings to reset and hydrate them?

And, no, there's nothing mixed in the FV.

[Tashahaven]

When are you mixing up the formula?

You want to mix it and let it sit in the refrigerator at least a few hours before feeding. If possible the night before so it sits overnight which gives it plenty of time for the powder to absorb. If it doesn’t have enough time to properly absorb, it can be a lot harder for the babies to adequately digest the formula due to the amount of solids present….

[Buddy]

Yes, I mix the formula in advance. At least a few hours.

[Buddy]

The 2 babies are still struggling with diarrhea and whiteish poo. I'm very discouraged and afraid that they might get worse. I'm considering taking them to the rehab center I sometimes volunteer. It's Oaken Acres Wildlife center.

It's pretty big and they seem to know what they are doing. Anyone else is familiar or have a recommendation?

I'm still thinking of :Love_Icon Jack :Love_Icon pretty much everyday and I don't think I can bare another experience like that.

We also removed Buddy/Jack's outdoor cage and are planning to move in the next few months, so maybe taking them before they get worse is the best.

The other 2 are doing well by the way. :Love_Icon

Let me know what you think and if there's a better person or place that can take care of these babies, please let me know. :Love_Icon

[Buddy]

I found the boy covered with sticky loose poo this morning. He had a diarrhea last night too; so I gave pedialyte to both the little girl and the boy in last night and this morning, I gave them both dia-stat.

After stimulation, it looks like the little girl's poo has slightly improved but the boy's poo is still very watery and also still very light yellow/beige.

I really don't think I overfeed them; they barely eat 5%.

Should I continue with dia-stat for the boy?

What else can or should I do?

Also, any thoughts on taking them to the rehab center now?

I had called https://www.2ndhandranch.com/ 3-4 days ago (as I heard that someone from the Squirrel Board senior member that they were recommending them), she said she is going on vacation and sent me the list of Wild Life Rehabers.

https://www.oakenacres.org/ is the place I volunteer time to time but they are big and have hundreds of babies that they rehab every year. Just curious if anyone heard anything about them.

Most importantly, please let me know what should I do for the little boy?? And if it's best to take him/them to the rehab because they'd be taken care of better??

[Spanky]

After stimulation, it looks like the little girl's poo has slightly improved but the boy's poo is still very watery and also still very light yellow/beige.

Should I continue with dia-stat for the boy?

What else can or should I do?

Also, any thoughts on taking them to the rehab center now?

Most importantly, please let me know what should I do for the little boy?? And if it's best to take him/them to the rehab because they'd be taken care of better??

Yes, Dia-Stat for the boy for 2 consecutive feedings.

Question: Are you keeping the opened powdered formula in the freezer (or minimally in the fridge)?

That sticky poo from the boy... I know, gross... does it have a strong, foul odor?

2nd Hand Ranch is a great place for squirrels, but I know nothing about the other one...

[Buddy]

Thank you! I just gave the boy with lose stool another Dia-Stat and fed the others the formula.

His poo doesn't have a foul odor. I assume that's good?

I always keep all squirrel formulas (including dia-stat) and henry's block etc. all in the freezer.

Hoping and praying that they all get better and stronger. 🙏

[Spanky]

Yes, no foul odor is a good thing... keep us posted on developments. Hopefully his diarrhea will resolve and he'll be back on track.

Just as precaution, check around and see it you or anyone you know might have a drug called metronidazole (AKA Metro). It is a fairly common medication. I mention this because of the way the boy's poo looked... in 2021 and 2022 seasons I encountered several cases who's poo looked like that but did not respond to the more convention treatments for giardia, which we'd normally diagnosis foul smelling, voluminous, frothy poo, but the metro fixed them up very quickly. Thinking it might be good to have some on hand just in case... and better to check around when you don't need it instead of in a panic when it might be needed.

[Buddy]

So, here's the update, after the 7:30 pm feed of formula; here are the poos.

This time, I was able to sense a little odor (kind of like human feces), but nothing sharp.

It was back again very loose poo... :(

[Buddy]

Adding their photos... One girl; with big poo, is ~100 grams. Boy #2, who was dehydrated is now the biggest; about ~106 grams.

Other girl is about ~92 grams and Boy #1 is ~94. He was the biggest and now he is on the smaller end and he seems dehydrated to me. :(

What do you think? The small girl and Boy #1 eat about 4-5ml each feeding. The other girl and Boy #2 about 6 ml.

They were about 60 grams when I got them, so they are growing but I'm really worried about these loose poo situation.

What should I do next??

[Buddy]

I just gave them in between 1ml water... Here's the most recent poo of Boy #1

[Buddy]

So, seems like there's improvement from 7:30 pm feeding to now? (the loose/watery poo picture after 7:30 pm feeding is in the previous page).

I also asked around the medicine, but no luck so far.

What do you recommend I should do??

Should I give 2 consecutive dia-stat?? Or pedialyte mix?

[Buddy]

By the way, I should add, these photos above are right after they had their dinner. I can take some photos before they eat, if helpful.

[Buddy]

3:30 am feeding: since I didn't hear anything and the last poo seemed better, I gave him formula. He barely ate 4-5ml. He seems like he is losing weight and looks dehydrated and much weaker compare to others. :(

While eating, he pooped lose/watery on himself. :(

What should I do???

I can take them all to 2nd hand ranch. It's 2 hours drive for me versus Oaken Acres 1 hour, but I'd rather take them to somewhere they'd be taken care, not just now but in the long term.

Others are all doing well and gaining weight.

[Buddy]

Could you please read my last messages and let me know what you recommend that I do next?

Since no reply... this morning, I tried to give pedialyte mix, but the boy didn't want that at all, and I didn't want him not to have anything, so I gave him dia-stat. He still has a pretty bad diarrhea and he is now 90 grams. :( So he lost 3-4 grams at least. :(

I don't have Metro but I found this at home. I had bought this about 10 years ago (it's not opened yet) and it says it expired 12/2019.

Is it now better for me to take them to the rehab center? Can they give the boy under skin hydration or something?? I cannot do that.

[Buddy]

Here's the med:

[Spanky]

So, seems like there's improvement from 7:30 pm feeding to now? (the loose/watery poo picture after 7:30 pm feeding is in the previous page).

I also asked around the medicine, but no luck so far.

What do you recommend I should do??

Should I give 2 consecutive dia-stat?? Or pedialyte mix?

The water being given in between feedings, is that plain water or sugar water... if they will take plain water, give that. If sugar needs to be added to entice them, use have only the slightest amount.

With hydration, while rehabbers can give fluids sub-q when urgent / emergent, hydrating orally is the best option whenever possible.

Boy #1 seem a little dehydrated... I just do not now if he simply needs to "get over the hump" or if he'll need to be treated with meds. I see while creating this post you gave DiaStat... give that again next feeding (2 total).

There are some meds that may help you can get from the store over the counter... Fenbendazole (Panacur) or albendazole. I am not familiar with the medicine you posted, so I have no idea if it is safe for squirrels.. but regardless, that is an antibacterial and I think he needs to be treated with an anti-protozoan. These are small parasites that live in the gut... sometimes they get out of control so the treatment is to reign them in and hopefully get back to a more normal balance. If the most recent round of DiaStat and hydrating does not get on top of the diarhea, starting meds might be the next step...

[Buddy]

Thanks! Yes, normally, in between, I just give plain water. This morning, since he looked more dehydrated and lost weight, I offered pedialyte-water+molasses mix but he didn't want that. He ate 4-5ml of dia-stat.

[Spanky]

Thanks! Yes, normally, in between, I just give plain water. This morning, since he looked more dehydrated and lost weight, I offered pedialyte-water+molasses mix but he didn't want that. He ate 4-5ml of dia-stat.

Hoping he's turning around and poos solidifying?

[Buddy]

Here's the scoop from this morning. The top 3 small ones and the bottom light yellow ones are from the little boy who's been struggling. He is still the smallest; but at least his stool is not lose and hopefully he'll catch up to others soon!

I'm so happy that he seems to be over the hurdle. :Love_Icon

Thanks for all your help! :grouphug

[Buddy]

So, I'll try to get these munckins to 2n Hand Ranch; but she is going to be able to take them after August 12 (and she said she'd overwinter them and release basically where the release cages would be).

We're leaving for our vacation on Saturday the 5th and coming back next Sunday. In the meantime, I'll ask my neighbor to take care of them, if she could. If not, I don't think I have any other choice but take them to Oaken Acres. And since they are late babies; even Oaken Acres might release them in their property; by the release cages.

What's the minimum feeding schedule to make it as less risky and as doable for the neighbor? At what age/weight can night feeding stop? Can she feed them every 5 hours?

[Buddy]

I'll keep them with me until we leave. So hopefully they'll be bigger and stronger too. :Love_Icon