New formula PetAg Esbilac

[Garden71]

I went to order Esbilac and I see that they have a new label and formula.
Has anyone had a problem with the new formula?324595

[Charley Chuckles]

No I've not seen that🤷
I hate when they keep changing you never know what's good or what can kill 😱
Hopefully someone here will have the answer👍

[CritterMom]

The only thing I have noticed is a fair number of people reporting that their babies pee smelled fishy. Haven't seen any of the bad issues that they have foisted upon their customers in the past. Yet. :tap

[island rehabber]

We discussed this briefly at the Gathering. It seems that Pet Ag has changed its formula to include more fillers. It's unclear right now what specific effects this may be having on spring babies...we're keeping a close watch, especially those of us who use Esbilac for neonates and pinkies

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I went to order Esbilac and I see that they have a new label and formula.
Has anyone had a problem with the new formula?

Thanks! I did not realize this! I tried to call PetAg but they are closed on weekends. I submitted an inquiry via their website requesting a detailed comparison between the two versions of their Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer Powder. Here is what I have asked of them:

"Hello:
I just noticed in regard to Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer Powder; not just the Label has changed, but the Formula itself has also been changed! Please send a comparison chart to me ASAP indicating specifically the percentages, weights, contents of the "old formula and the "new" formula. I am one of many Animal Rehabbers who use your products and it is essential for us to know all of the the details of the diets we provide for our animals! Thanks for your expeditious response!"

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel (Don't worry, I didn't sign my inquiry as SamtheSquirrel!)

PS: Sorry IR, I guess I missed the discussion on this at The Gathering. I was probably climbing a tree! If PetAg does provide this information it could be of some significant benefit to us though!
StS

[Garden71]

I mix Esbilac with Fox Valley 20/50.
I do a 50/50 mix and no problems with it.
I have 4 cans left of the Esbilac so I can wait a little before I order more.

[Mel1959]

We discussed this briefly at the Gathering. It seems that Pet Ag has changed its formula to include more fillers. It's unclear right now what specific effects this may be having on spring babies...we're keeping a close watch, especially those of us who use Esbilac for neonates and pinkies

I should have asked this at the Gathering. What exactly is a filler? It sounds as though regardless of what it is it wouldn’t be good for a pinkie or neonate. IMO. I haven’t examined the cans. I still have Royal Canin Baby Dog from the last Esbilac debacle. I clearly don’t rehab enough baby squirrels. :shakehead

[Milo's Mom]

Mine seem to NOT be tolerating it well. I'm running a test right now. Will report findings when I have them.

[Mel1959]

I mix Esbilac with Fox Valley 20/50.
I do a 50/50 mix and no problems with it.
I have 4 cans left of the Esbilac so I can wait a little before I order more.

Are your cans of Esbilac the old formula or the new “improved” one?

[Garden71]

Are your cans of Esbilac the old formula or the new “improved” one?

I have the old one as of now.
I have 3 cans.
Right now we have 8 babies. We just got 3 from our yard. She was hit by a car and had to get the babies for the nesting box.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I should have asked this at the Gathering. What exactly is a filler? It sounds as though regardless of what it is it wouldn’t be good for a pinkie or neonate. IMO. I haven’t examined the cans. I still have Royal Canin Baby Dog from the last Esbilac debacle. I clearly don’t rehab enough baby squirrels. :shakehead

Hi Mel:
I just notice that your post had a question. A Food "Filler" can be thought of as anything added to the actual nutrient makeup of the food to give it bulk, fiber, consistency or whatever but is NOT an actual nutrient component. There is some controversy and misunderstanding about "fillers" because the general assumption is that "fillers" have no value and are added to bulk up the food or in in this case the formula and may even help keep the manufacturers costs down! This is not necessarily the case or at least not the whole case. Just to pick an example; fiber is often called a "filler" but while it does not have true nutritional value, it's presence can add healthy bulk to the stool and may aid in digestion of other actual nutrient components of the diet. So, anyway, the term "fillers" sound like it represents a "bad" attribute of a dietary source but this in many instances is not necessarily the case in that while "fillers" are not part of the intended nutritional value of the particular dietary source, they are not necessarily harmful or more importantly; they are not necessarily useless or "fluff" and may be added by the manufacturer for valid rationales.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Milo's Mom]

Every single one of my kids has liquid poop! I'm furious.

We've done a complete scrub down and started everything over...with NO black puppy esbilac.
They are all on Albon, but we aren't seeing anything under the scope (we did not do an oil immersion though).

My cross contamination protocols are pretty tight, no kissing, always gloves, sanitize till your skin falls off, ammonia, alcohol, or 140+ degree water soak for 7 minutes for cleaning.

Either my volunteers are taking shortcuts...and they know how I feel about that or this formula is crap.

I have zoologic 33/40 on hand and will be forced to go to that once my white puppy esbilac is gone.

Will report back when I get new info. Not happy, not at all.

[Milo's Mom]

Preliminary/Initial findings:

Black Puppy Esbilac created a tremendous amount of sludge in mixing container even after mixing in a bullet and resting with 4 agitations over 12 hours.

White Puppy, mixed the exact same way, has NONE!

I do not want to be an alarmist, but I would be very very hesitant to feed this.

I had beautiful fat babies and now I have to subq them daily for additional hydration because of their liquid poop.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Preliminary/Initial findings:

Black Puppy Esbilac created a tremendous amount of sludge in mixing container even after mixing in a bullet and resting with 4 agitations over 12 hours.

White Puppy, mixed the exact same way, has NONE!

I do not want to be an alarmist, but I would be very very hesitant to feed this.

I had beautiful fat babies and now I have to subq them daily for additional hydration because of their liquid poop.

Hi MM:
Thanks for your research! What would be your suggestions as alternatives for these very young babies as it appears the "white puppy" formulation will no longer be available?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Garden71]

So what alternatives are there for formula. I usually mix eslibac with fox valley?

[island rehabber]

I have no spring babies yet but that is not unusual for my area. I am very upset about this new f***** by Pet Ag, because I have had three years (six seasons) of wonderfully healthy babies using Esbilac 0-2 weeks, Esbilac with Ultra Boost till eyes open, and then 20/50 with Ultra Boost thereafter. Fat, healthy babies with perfect poops. I guess THAT's over....:hissyfit

To add to the stress, I live in an urban area (Bronx) on a small island where heavy cream is always within a day or two of expiration and "fresh goat's milk" is something kids learn about in school but don't believe it even exists. WTH am I going to use??

[Mel1959]

In light of MM’s findings, what’s going to be done about this?? Last time there was an Esbilac formula change debacle the Casey’s got involved, as well as rehabbers nationwide, and there was enough of an uproar that Pet Ag made changes to their formula. Can we expect anything like that this time?

[Mel1959]

I have no spring babies yet but that is not unusual for my area. I am very upset about this new f***** by Pet Ag, because I have had three years (six seasons) of wonderfully healthy babies using Esbilac 0-2 weeks, Esbilac with Ultra Boost till eyes open, and then 20/50 with Ultra Boost thereafter. Fat, healthy babies with perfect poops. I guess THAT's over....:hissyfit

To add to the stress, I live in an urban area (Bronx) on a small island where heavy cream is always within a day or two of expiration and "fresh goat's milk" is something kids learn about in school but don't believe it even exists. WTH am I going to use??

I believe someone told me that Royal Canin Baby Dog is available at one of the 3 big box pet stores. I would try substituting that for the Esbilac. I haven’t searched for it locally, but if this is true it can be recommended for those needing help with a found baby. Otherwise it can be purchased online.

[CritterMom]

I believe someone told me that Royal Canin Baby Dog is available at one of the 3 big box pet stores. I would try substituting that for the Esbilac. I haven’t searched for it locally, but if this is true it can be recommended for those needing help with a found baby. Otherwise it can be purchased online.

No can find except from ebay - $50 for the formula, $42 for shipping...

So I have a partially stupid but maybe not that much question...

Has anyone tried mixing the heck out of it, letting it sit for several hours or overnight, and then siphoning off the liquid and leaving the sludge behind? I am guessing that the newfound sludge is the "filler" that is being added. I wonder if you are looking at something like the old formula if you just separate out the sludge?

[Milo's Mom]

I'm going to try the zoologic 33/40 mixed wirh fresh GM and yogurt and if that doesn't work I'll go to fv 20/50 straight through.

If I had the money, knowledge, and time I'd make a freaking formula myself!

All of my kids are back to toothpaste consistency poop, hungry mungry babies.

I am going to put a call out on all of our socials seeking white puppy esbilac...

[island rehabber]

I would like to know what Esbilac's true target audience -- dog breeders ---think of this new formula? Last debacle, breeders were also having terrible problems and I'm sure that's what got Pet Ag to move its big corporate butt to change it back. This time who knows...?.

[island rehabber]

I believe someone told me that Royal Canin Baby Dog is available at one of the 3 big box pet stores. I would try substituting that for the Esbilac.

So funny, Mel...I was the someone who told you 😂. Do I dare try it? Guess I will have to!

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thanks! I did not realize this! I tried to call PetAg but they are closed on weekends. I submitted an inquiry via their website requesting a detailed comparison between the two versions of their Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer Powder. Here is what I have asked of them:

"Hello:
I just noticed in regard to Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer Powder; not just the Label has changed, but the Formula itself has also been changed! Please send a comparison chart to me ASAP indicating specifically the percentages, weights, contents of the "old formula and the "new" formula. I am one of many Animal Rehabbers who use your products and it is essential for us to know all of the the details of the diets we provide for our animals! Thanks for your expeditious response!"

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel (Don't worry, I didn't sign my inquiry as SamtheSquirrel!)

I have heard nothing yet from PetAg. Surprise, surprise!
StS

[Chirps]

I have heard nothing yet from PetAg. Surprise, surprise!
StS

Hmmmm. I wonder if they'd have responded if you had signed as "SamtheSquirrel." Might be worth a try. :dono

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hmmmm. I wonder if they'd have responded if you had signed as "SamtheSquirrel." Might be worth a try. :dono

Thanks Chirps! After reading your post, I have another strategy. This Esbilac formulation is made for puppies! PetAg may be more inclined to respond to my questions if I presented myself as a dog breeder or Vet. I'm at work now but when I get home I will send the same inquiry to PetAg and sign it "SamtheBeagle!" Just kidding about the signature but I will send another message that is focussd on use Esbilac with puppies!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Mel1959]

So funny, Mel...I was the someone who told you 😂. Do I dare try it? Guess I will have to!

I knew I heard it from a reliable source. :grin3

I have used Baby Dog on eyes closed babies, but not pinkies. I think it’s a very good formula and we have recommended it for folks in England many times.

I have used the powdered goats milk and it worked fine. I would opt for fresh if I was going to be feeding pinkies. If you can find fresh goats milk….ever….and the heavy cream, try freezing it in ice cube tray portions, then put in a ziploc bag.

[Mel1959]

It’s true, PetAg is not nearly as concerned about the small rehab organizations because using Esbilac is “off label” to them. During the last debacle dog breeders as well as lather rehab organizations spoke out and forced PetAg to deal with the issue. Also animals were dying…it wasn’t cases of diarrhea or sludge when mixing. Time will tell if their change will impact dog breeders.

There is always Zoological Milk Matrix. It is more expensive. I’ve only found it in 5lb tubs, which is unreasonable for the average rehabber, but…..? I hadn’t realized that it is also made by PetAg. I know it is used in zoos and large facilities so PetAg probably doesn’t mess with its ingredients. I know it’s what Dr. E uses…..maybe for that very reason….it’s formulation is consistent.

[BCChins]

I will check my area for White Puppy Esbilac for you gal's.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Originally Posted by Mel1959
"I believe someone told me that Royal Canin Baby Dog is available at one of the 3 big box pet stores. I would try substituting that for the Esbilac. I haven’t searched for it locally, but if this is true it can be recommended for those needing help with a found baby. Otherwise it can be purchased online."


No can find except from ebay - $50 for the formula, $42 for shipping...

Hi y'all: I have not used Royal Canin BabyDog Milk but it certainly seems like it may be a good option.

I found this to be available on Amazon in 400 Gram cans (I went to the Royal Canin website and this seems to be the standard size container). The page on Amazon lists nutritional information in detail! It appears that if you live where expedited Amazon shipping is available it may arrive to your home in 2 days (possibly next day!)! Here is the link:

https://www.amazon.com/Royal-Canin-Babydog-Puppy-Misc/dp/B00197UQ3O/ref=sr_1_1?hvadid=532672179079&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9028896&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=7121864915232593081&hvtargid=kwd-330772831105&hydadcr=7441_9611280&keywords=royal+canin+puppy+milk+replacer&qid=1680042242&sr=8-1

I would like to encourage anyone with direct experience using Royal Canin BabyDog Milk formula for their babies and especially for pinkies to post detailed comments regarding the use of this formula such as outcomes (did the babies thrive?), whether or not you transitioned to another formula such as FV 20/50 and if so, how old were the babies when transitioned, did it seem that the babies were well hydrated with this formula or were there signs of suboptimal hydration that you felt it necessary to supplement with plain water or some other means of hydration, were the poops formed and what was the consistent color of the stool (so that we can know what to expect and help identify stool color variations that may suggest problems if we should start using this formula with our babies).

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Mel1959]

I’m pretty certain I got mine from Amazon. The price isn’t that much more than Esbilac and much less than Zoological.

I wonder if PetAg has messed with the Esbilac Goats Milk formula? That formula costs a little more than regular Esbilac so maybe they haven’t messed with it. We have had members use it without any serious side effects….at least that I’m aware of.

[Milo's Mom]

Mel, the GME has a new label...I'd be careful.

After 5 days all of my guys are back to perfect poop. No more subqing or extra hydration.

I'm going to try the zoologic,, simply due to the volume of squirrels I raise. (We now have a very healthy stockpile of white puppy esb)

[whisperer]

The stores around me still have some the white Esbilac cans, but they all expire in July 2023. That means they were made in July 2021. Are the nutrients still good this far along? And if so.... how long after the expire date. I have never used Esbilac that far out of manufacture ( 1 year and 9 months). I always made sure it was the freshest can that store had.

Lesa

[BCChins]

Try Tractor Supply stores in your area.

[CritterMom]

I’m pretty certain I got mine from Amazon. The price isn’t that much more than Esbilac and much less than Zoological.

I wonder if PetAg has messed with the Esbilac Goats Milk formula? That formula costs a little more than regular Esbilac so maybe they haven’t messed with it. We have had members use it without any serious side effects….at least that I’m aware of.

Somewhere in the ton of info on this board that Patti (HRT4SQRLS) left us, is info about the GME - not so much the manufacture of it, but the fact that so many of the cans were rancid upon opening. I do know that fresh goat's milk goes bad really fast - a lot faster than cow's milk does, so it sort of stands to reason that the powder made from it would do the same. Given how little control one has over what happens between manufacturer and forking your money over at the register, it is impossible to know without buying and opening. If I am not mistaken, someone actually did a study of sorts - maybe the Casey's (??) and this is why we have always recommended against it.

[Pfcrane]

I have used the esbilac powder with the white puppy for 3 years. I just bought a can with the Bernese puppy on it. Ingredients and protein/fat percentages are the same.. Only difference I see is a rosemary extract is added. Anyone have experience to share?

[Spanky]

There have not been any issues reported with Esbilac recently, including the Bernese puppy (most recent labeling). Keep the powder in the freezer after opening.

[kastillo]

Hi Mel:
I just notice that your post had a question. A Food "Filler" can be thought of as anything added to the actual nutrient makeup of the food to give it bulk, fiber, consistency or whatever but is NOT an actual nutrient component. There is some controversy and misunderstanding about "fillers" because the general assumption is that "fillers" have no value and are added to bulk up the food or in in this case the formula and may even help keep the manufacturers costs down! This is not necessarily the case or at least not the whole case. Just to pick an example; fiber is often called a "filler" but while it does not have true nutritional value, it's presence can add healthy bulk to the stool and may aid in digestion of other actual nutrient components of the diet. So, anyway, the term "fillers" sound like it represents a "bad" attribute of a dietary source but this in many instances is not necessarily the case in that while "fillers" are not part of the intended nutritional value of the particular dietary source, they are not necessarily harmful or more importantly; they are not necessarily useless or "fluff" and may be added by the manufacturer for valid rationales.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Upon reading the label, it looks like the only thing they have added is what they're calling fiber. I raised my 2 on the new formula and they did not have problems. Except the bots were draining them, so I added the recommended amount of multi milk and it seemed too rich because their stool was becoming runny....So, I took the multimilk away and their stools remained mucousy.
These new 3 I got were about 2 weeksold when i first got them and they've never not had mucousy stool and they're on just the new esbilac. The amount and the color of the poop is right it is just the consistency that is off but they look healthy hydrated and their gaining weight like they should.
It may have been with the bot babies I started them off with the esbilac when they were so young (less than 10 days) their little bodies adjusted quicker, the older 3 that came in have not adjusted to the esbilac BUT they are gaining as they should.
So basically all I'm saying is this new esbilac with this fiber or "fillers" is not optimal for us but, but it is doing its job.... Even though I'm having to deal with the messy end of the business.
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