HELP my year and a half old gray squirrel ate a Sago Palm nut

[Tommy.sie]

To make a long story short. My squirrel ate a Sago Palm nut 36 hours ago. She threw up for about four hours after the ingestion. And after I was giving her some water. I gave her activated charcoal as soon as I found out what happened and have been giving her milk thistle along with Pedialyte and water. She has not been eating very much just nibbling on blueberries. She ate six blueberries yesterday. I have been crushing blueberries up adding just a drop of water and feeding her through a syringe along with giving her fluids through the syringe. I know the mortality rate for sago palm ingestion. I was not home when it was given to her. When I got home I seen her face was covered in vomit. She hasn’t urinated in about 12 hours and she has had a lot of fluid consumption. Please help

[CritterMom]

I did some quick reading - the only thing I see recommended that I don't see that you have done or are doing is to give her a liquid antacid like pepto bismol or kaopectate liquid to help settle the angry stomach.

The no urination is concerning. Are you confident that she is getting sufficiently hydrated - that is, taking enough of it?

I would snag a bottle of Ensure - the meal replacement shake - any flavor - and try that, too. Try warming it up, offer on a spoon r if not, use a syringe to feed. It isn't ideal but a lot of them really like it and it is packed with what she does need right now.

I am so sorry...

[Tommy.sie]

I did some quick reading - the only thing I see recommended that I don't see that you have done or are doing is to give her a liquid antacid like pepto bismol or maalox liquid to help settle the angry stomach.

The no urination is concerning. Are you confident that she is getting sufficiently hydrated - that is, taking enough of it?

I would snag a bottle of Ensure - the meal replacement shake - any flavor - and try that, too. Try warming it up, offer on a spoon r if not, use a syringe to feed. It isn't ideal but a lot of them really like it and it is packed with what she does need right now.

I am so sorry...

Thank you so much. I will get her some Pepto she literally just threw up in her cage. I am very worried about her. She’s been getting 3 to 4 mL of Pedialyte every other hour and water every other hour. I’ve given her some orange juice. And even chopped up blueberries mushrooms and avocados to give her. She has been my best friend for the past year and a half. I am going to give her some Pepto right now to try to calm her stomach

[CritterMom]

Where in Florida are you? Perhaps a vet. The rules are pretty relaxed in FL.

Do you know how much she ate? And how long after she ingested it did the vomiting begin?

[Tommy.sie]

I took her to the vet and I’m doing everything that they told me to do. i’m not honestly sure I’ve looked for the nut for a minute but she had so many stashes and I was too worried about her I discontinued looking. I am very worried about kidney failure even though online it says nothing about kidney failure it is a toxin. She is very lethargic I just gave her a little bit of Pepto and we are working on a syringe of Ensure with milk thistle in it

[CritterMom]

Also, that should be liquid Pepto (the pink stuff) or Kaopectate (not Maalox). I will send you the dosing by PM. The pepto will make the stools really dark - almost black so don't freak if you see that.

[Tommy.sie]

She just urinated on top of my big fish tank usually I’d be a little upset. As she knows to go to her cage but this time she got an applause. It wasn’t much but it was yellow

[Tommy.sie]

She is also refusing water but is drinking Pedialyte

[CritterMom]

Anything she will drink. Fruit juice and water. Homemade hydration fluid (1/4 teaspoon salt, 1-1/2 teaspoons sugar, 8 ounces (1 cup) water. Honey water. The faster the toxins have been vomited out (did they induce vomiting at the vet or did that just happen) and are being peed and hopefully pooped out the back end, the better. But the vomiting is so tough on hydration and dehydration will really make them start to go downhill fast.

If your house is cool, try to offer her some bottom heat - a heating pad under her bed or cage bottom might be soothing.

It is liver damage that is an issue with this. I would continue the milk thistle for a while.

[Tommy.sie]

That’s the main reason I’ve been giving her Pedialyte so heavy. Due to the vomiting I do not want her to get dehydrated. She has been sleeping in my bed for three days now. I keep her warm next to me. Ive called out of work since this happened just to nurse her

[CritterMom]

Aw. That's a good idea.

Do think about the Ensure. It isn't a full time diet but it is really nutritionally dense, so a small quantity has a lot of nutrition in it. I am thinking that you could give it in small amounts that wouldn't trigger vomiting but would start getting some actual solids into her.

[Tommy.sie]

She’s had some ensure twice now. She dry heaved a little bit and I have her resting on my stomach now with her blanket over her. Her eyes definitely seemvwider then yesterday just gave 4ml more Pedialyte. And a bit of ensure. Just concerned about how little shes urinated.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

She is also refusing water but is drinking Pedialyte

Hi Tommy.sie:
Thanks you for your love and concern for this Squirrel. What is your Squirrel's name?
Pedialyte can help with problems associated with loss of Water along with losses of Electrolytes (Sodium, potassium, etc). Diarrhea and also to some extent, vomiting will deplete the body's plain water coupled loss of electrolytes. Pedialyte can certainly help restore these combined losses and help replenish intravascular (loss of fluid volume within the blood vessels such as following bleeding) volume loss quicker than plain water BUT all mammals have normal physiologic loss of Plain Water (called Free Water in medical parlance- this is water that is not associated with electrolytes). This loss includes losses of water from urination, sweating, and some other mechanisms as well. When an animal becomes dehydrated from simply not drinking fluids at all or not drinking adequate fluids, the fluid lost from this is strictly loss of Plain Water (very little electrolytes)! Pedialyte and other electrolyte containing fluids have little Plain Water (they contain relatively large amounts of Electrolytes!) compared with Plain Water itself and what can happen over a relatively short period of time during which the Squirrel is getting only Pedialyte and little or no real just Plain water is that they develop a type of dehydration where the Electrolyte concentration in the body increases while the amount of Plain Water in the body decreases even though you may be giving a normal or even more than normal volumes of fluids; but in the form of Pedialyte.

Pedialye should never be used alone for hydration for more than 24 hours and my opinion is that except for an emergency such as where the Squirrel was found in a severely dehydrated condition; I would opt for NEVER using Pedialyte (or electrolyte solutions) as the sole means for hydration. Doing so can cause some very serious problems. I would like to encourage you to try to give your Squirrel Plain Water and limit the Pedialyte to use immediately after diarrhea or vomiting when it may be advantageous to try to replace some of these losses with the Pedialyte as these fluid losses will include some Electrolyte loss along with Plain Water loss. BUT, give Plain water round the clock. You can flavor the Plain Water if that will help entice your Squirrel to drink Water. Flavorings can include honey, syrup, molasses in small amounts added to the Water (a teaspoonful of sweetener in a measured cup of Plain Water). NEVER mix Plain Water and Pedialyte or other Electrolyte containing Fluids. This makes it very difficult to control the volumes of each and the concentrations of electrolyte and while they may have have related goals, their purposes are still different for this reason they should be controlled individually. Plain Water can also be obtained though using formulas such as Fox Valley 20/50 and/or Esbilac but Plain Water should still be available at all times!

Also, decreased urination is normal mechanism for mammals to conserve loss of Plain Water. I would expect that once you get your Squirrel to drink more plain water, her amount and frequency of urination would increase!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CritterMom]

Go slow. You can get a fair amount in over several hours a little bit at a time but you want to keep it down. The ensure also has water in it so it will also be providing her with hydration.

How does she look? If you pull up some slack skin does it snap back yet? Their fur looks spikey when they are dehydrated, too.

Once the vomiting backs off, switch from the pedialyte to either a little fruit juice and water, or honey water, sugar water - the idea being to stop consuming the salt which is part of pedialyte while still providing the water. As long as she is vomiting she needs the salt because her body is throwing off electrolytes, but once it stops, she should stop the salt part of the equation.

I see SamtheSquirrel is having the same idea I am.

[Tommy.sie]

She just vomited again. Just looks grey though. No ensure in it or pepto why would it be grey? Haven’t given activated charcoal in 24 hours. I’m going to give her a few minutes to calm down before I offer pedialyte Her skin goes back to normal as soon as it let it go but her hair is slightly spiky.

[Tommy.sie]

Hi Tommy.sie:
Thanks you for your love and concern for this Squirrel. What is your Squirrel's name?
Pedialyte can help with problems associated with loss of Water along with losses of Electrolytes (Sodium, potassium, etc). Diarrhea and also to some extent, vomiting will deplete the body's plain water coupled loss of electrolytes. Pedialyte can certainly help restore these combined losses and help replenish intravascular (loss of fluid volume within the blood vessels such as following bleeding) volume loss quicker than plain water BUT all mammals have normal physiologic loss of Plain Water (called Free Water in medical parlance- this is water that is not associated with electrolytes). This loss includes losses of water from urination, sweating, and some other mechanisms as well. When an animal becomes dehydrated from simply not drinking fluids at all or not drinking adequate fluids, the fluid lost from this is strictly loss of Plain Water (very little electrolytes)! Pedialyte and other electrolyte containing fluids have little Plain Water (they contain relatively large amounts of Electrolytes!) compared with Plain Water itself and what can happen over a relatively short period of time during which the Squirrel is getting only Pedialyte and little or no real just Plain water is that they develop a type of dehydration where the Electrolyte concentration in the body increases while the amount of Plain Water in the body decreases even though you may be giving a normal or even more than normal volumes of fluids; but in the form of Pedialyte.

Pedialye should never be used alone for hydration for more than 24 hours and my opinion is that except for an emergency such as where the Squirrel was found in a severely dehydrated condition; I would opt for NEVER using Pedialyte (or electrolyte solutions) as the sole means for hydration. Doing so can cause some very serious problems. I would like to encourage you to try to give your Squirrel Plain Water and limit the Pedialyte to use immediately after diarrhea or vomiting when it may be advantageous to try to replace some of these losses with the Pedialyte as these fluid losses will include some Electrolyte loss along with Plain Water loss. BUT, give Plain water round the clock. You can flavor the Plain Water if that will help entice your Squirrel to drink Water. Flavorings can include honey, syrup, molasses in small amounts added to the Water (a teaspoonful of sweetener in a measured cup of Plain Water). NEVER mix Plain Water and Pedialyte or other Electrolyte containing Fluids. This makes it very difficult to control the volumes of each and the concentrations of electrolyte and while they may have have related goals, their purposes are still different for this reason they should be controlled individually. Plain Water can also be obtained though using formulas such as Fox Valley 20/50 and/or Esbilac but Plain Water should still be available at all times!

Also, decreased urination is normal mechanism for mammals to conserve loss of Plain Water. I would expect that once you get your Squirrel to drink more plain water, her amount and frequency of urination would increase!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel


Thank you So much I will give plain water. She refuses it for the most part but I’ll be able to get her to drink it

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Go slow. You can get a fair amount in over several hours a little bit at a time but you want to keep it down. The ensure also has water in it so it will also be providing her with hydration.

How does she look? If you pull up some slack skin does it snap back yet? Their fur looks spikey when they are dehydrated, too.

Once the vomiting backs off, switch from the pedialyte to either a little fruit juice and water, or honey water, sugar water - the idea being to stop consuming the salt which is part of pedialyte while still providing the water. As long as she is vomiting she needs the salt because her body is throwing off electrolytes, but once it stops, she should stop the salt part of the equation.

I see SamtheSquirrel is having the same idea I am.



Sorry CM! I guess we were both typing at the same time. You, in your usual fashion of being totally accurate with lightning like pounces of your fingers (and maybe toes as well!) upon the keyboard where you have total command and me; with hesitant use of one of my index fingers fumbling upon the keys in a manner an observer would accurately suspect was almost completely at random.
Regards,
StS

[CritterMom]

She just vomited again. Just looks grey though. No ensure in it or pepto why would it be grey? Haven’t given activated charcoal in 24 hours. I’m going to give her a few minutes to calm down before I offer pedialyte Her skin goes back to normal as soon as it let it go but her hair is slightly spiky.

Give her some time before you do. Let her tummy calm down a little. You are trying to walk a fine line - keep her hydrated and try to get a little nutrition in to her WITHOUT triggering more vomiting. Use small amounts of both - 1 or 2 ml - and let her rest and allow it to process before giving more. I would also alternate - a little water, some time, then a little bit of ensure and some more time.

It may also help to cut the ensure with some water. It will make it less rich and will also provide hydration.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I took her to the vet and I’m doing everything that they told me to do. i’m not honestly sure I’ve looked for the nut for a minute but she had so many stashes and I was too worried about her I discontinued looking. I am very worried about kidney failure even though online it says nothing about kidney failure it is a toxin. She is very lethargic I just gave her a little bit of Pepto and we are working on a syringe of Ensure with milk thistle in it

Hello again Tommy.sie:
I am not a Vet or Toxicologist (my disclaimers) but I am not aware of Kidney Failure as a direct result from Sago poisoning. It may be that Liver Damage or Liver Failure was what was meant. The liver is put at risk by the Sago ingestion. I would suggest avoiding the Orange Juice or anything acidic or irritating as one of the complications of Sago poisoning is Gastrointestinal irritation and this may be all the more irritating. Also, there are potential risks to using Activated Charcoal but it appears that you were successful at administering this relatively early on (that is when it is beneficial-not later)! Good job! It may be that the "gray" tinged stuff being vomited is grayish from some small amount of charcoal that may have remained in the gut.

I am very concerned about your Squirrel getting adequate fluids. Treatment is supportive. There is no antidote for Sago poisoning. It may be necessary for your Squirrel to have Subcutaneous (under the skin) administration of fluids if she will not take in adequate fluids on her own initiative. As you have a Vet, this is something that can be discussed with your Vet and your Vet could administer fluids in this manner at the office or maybe even instruct you as to how to do this following initial treatment in the office if he and you are agreeable. Gastrointestinal problems such as vomiting, diarrhea and GI bleeding are common and adequate fluid intake becomes very critical and options for maintaining hydration including possible Subcutaneous fluids should be discussed with your Vet now, before your Squirrel might get to the point where she is severely behind on fluid intake!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Tommy.sie]

Hello again Tommy.sie:
I am not a Vet or Toxicologist (my disclaimers) but I am not aware of Kidney Failure as a direct result from Sago poisoning. It may be that Liver Damage or Liver Failure was what was meant. The liver is put at risk by the Sago ingestion. I would suggest avoiding the Orange Juice or anything acidic or irritating as one of the complications of Sago poisoning is Gastrointestinal irritation and this may be all the more irritating. Also, there are potential risks to using Activated Charcoal but it appears that you were successful at administering this relatively early on (that is when it is beneficial-not later)! Good job! It may be that the "gray" tinged stuff being vomited is grayish from some small amount of charcoal that may have remained in the gut. I am also administering milk thistle every other hour mixed with water

I am very concerned about your Squirrel getting adequate fluids. Treatment is supportive. There is no antidote for Sago poisoning. It may be necessary for your Squirrel to have Subcutaneous (under the skin) administration of fluids if she will not take in adequate fluids on her own initiative. As you have a Vet, this is something that can be discussed with your Vet and your Vet could administer fluids in this manner at the office or maybe even instruct you as to how to do this following initial treatment in the office if he and you are agreeable. Gastrointestinal problems such as vomiting, diarrhea and GI bleeding are common and adequate fluid intake becomes very critical and options for maintaining hydration including possible Subcutaneous fluids should be discussed with your Vet now, before your Squirrel might get to the point where she is severely behind on fluid intake!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel


Even though she does not wish to drink on her own I have been making her through a syringe. 2 mL at a time if she will. Sometimes she’ll just push it back out. I have switched over to water and will only administer water until she vomits again. She has been taking water every 30 minutes to an hour. The next day she will get will be some Ensure. I am going to hold off of that Pedialyte until if she vomits again. Also her hair is slightly spiky. Could it be lack of water? I just put her back in her cage as she’s been resting with me for about 8 hours now

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Even though she does not wish to drink on her own I have been making her through a syringe. 2 mL at a time if she will. Sometimes she’ll just push it back out. I have switched over to water and will only administer water until she vomits again. She has been taking water every 30 minutes to an hour. The next day she will get will be some Ensure. I am going to hold off of that Pedialyte until if she vomits again. Also her hair is slightly spiky. Could it be lack of water? I just put her back in her cage as she’s been resting with me for about 8 hours now

I'm not sure what you mean by "spiky hair." Would you please try to describe this in a bit more detail. Thanks! What is your Squirrel's name? What is her activity level compare with her usual activity level. Has there been any diarrhea? When you are "making" her drink, are you putting a syringe genly into her mouth and pushing very gently on the plunger to release a drop of the water or are you actually forcing the water into her mouth. If forcing it please stop because that can lead very easily to aspiration (sucking the water or whatever is being force-fed into the lugs which can result in another potentially very serious problem called aspiration pneumonia!). Once a drop of water is place in the mouth with the tip of the syringe pointed up toward the top of the mouth and the Squirrel held upright; the normal response of most animals is to swallow the drop.
Regards,
StS

[Tommy.sie]

I'm not sure what you mean by "spiky hair." Would you please try to describe this in a bit more detail. Thanks! What is your Squirrel's name? What is her activity level compare with her usual activity level. Has there been any diarrhea? When you are "making" her drink, are you putting a syringe genly into her mouth and pushing very gently on the plunger to release a drop of the water or are you actually forcing the water into her mouth. If forcing it please stop because that can lead very easily to aspiration (sucking the water or whatever is being force-fed into the lugs which can result in another potentially very serious problem called aspiration pneumonia!). Once a drop of water is place in the mouth with the tip of the syringe pointed up toward the top of the mouth and the Squirrel held upright; the normal response of most animals is to swallow the drop.
Regards,
StS


The hair is slightly standing up. Her activity level is minimal compared to normally how she is. Her name is peanut. As far as what I mean by making her drink is putting the syringe in her mouth and pushing a very little bit. Out at a time. I’ve raised her from a baby and I know a lot about aspiration. It’s the main thing I’m trying to avoid while making her drink. Sometimes she’ll just let it leak out of her mouth. It’s only 2 mL at a time she just threw up again. All of the vomit has been gray so far after the activated charcoal yesterday. When I pick her up she still jumps on my shoulder and when I try to make her drink she has enough strength to pull away. She also has no problem jumping and climbing through her cage to get from the bottom to the top

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

The hair is slightly standing up. Her activity level is minimal compared to normally how she is. Her name is peanut. As far as what I mean by making her drink is putting the syringe in her mouth and pushing a very little bit. Out at a time. I’ve raised her from a baby and I know a lot about aspiration. It’s the main thing I’m trying to avoid while making her drink. Sometimes she’ll just let it leak out of her mouth. It’s only 2 mL at a time she just threw up again. All of the vomit has been gray so far after the activated charcoal yesterday. When I pick her up she still jumps on my shoulder and when I try to make her drink she has enough strength to pull away. She also has no problem jumping and climbing through her cage to get from the bottom to the top

Hello again Tommy.sie & hello Peanut!

I don't know how dehydration itself would cause the fur to "stand up." It sound like Peanut is having what is called piloerrection which is tightening of the tiny muscle that is attached to the base of most hairs which when contracted, causes that hair "stand up." This is the mechanism of "goosebumps" in people. It would be my guess that the piloerection is being caused by one or more of the toxins in the Sago palm but maybe Peanut is feeling colder than she would usually and this too, could be from effects of the poisoning. It sound like at least 36 hours has gone by and while Peanut is not at her usual baseline of activity, she seems pretty active and interactive and that seems to me to be a good sign as a number of effects from the poisoning are neurological and decreased activity, tremors, difficulty walking (ataxia) and even seizures can result and this has not happened (at least not yet). That, again, seems encouraging! Also, it sounds like there has been no diarrhea which also sounds encouraging!

I'm glad to hear that you have experience with syringe feedings and knowledge of not only what the risks of aspiration are but how to help prevent aspiration during feeding! Again, improve fluid intake seems to me to be a major factor as normal adequate fluid intake is essential. One of the expectations I would have for measuring just how effective the fluid management has been would be increased and more frequent urine output.

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Tommy.sie]

Hello again Tommy.sie & hello Peanut!

I don't know how dehydration itself would cause the fur to "stand up." It sound like Peanut is having what is called piloerrection which is tightening of the tiny muscle that is attached to the base of most hairs which when contracted, causes that hair "stand up." This is the mechanism of "goosebumps" in people. It would be my guess that the piloerection is being caused by one or more of the toxins in the Sago palm but maybe Peanut is feeling colder than she would usually and this too, could be from effects of the poisoning. It sound like at least 36 hours has gone by and while Peanut is not at her usual baseline of activity, she seems pretty active and interactive and that seems to me to be a good sign as a number of effects from the poisoning are neurological and decreased activity, tremors, difficulty walking (ataxia) and even seizures can result and this has not happened (at least not yet). That, again, seems encouraging! Also, it sounds like there has been no diarrhea which also sounds encouraging!

I'm glad to hear that you have experience with syringe feedings and knowledge of not only what the risks of aspiration are but how to help prevent aspiration during feeding! Again, improve fluid intake seems to me to be a major factor as normal adequate fluid intake is essential. One of the expectations I would have for measuring just how effective the fluid management has been would be increased and more frequent urine output.

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel



I just gave her three more milliliters of water. She had 1 mL of the ensure drink. The next dose is going to have milk thistle in it. I’m about to set up a heating pad underneath her home in her cage. When I took her out she is still talking to me (she peeps like a bird when she doesn’t want to do something) and she will try to climb out of my hand with average strength. She just wants to sleep a lot very lethargic

[CritterMom]

Just woke up to check her. Let her have some sleep too - you both need it.

Keep the amounts of both water and ensure small so as not to overload her poor tummy. I so hope she begins to turn the corner tomorrow...

Can you call the vet in the AM and see if they can give you something to counteract the nausea and vomiting. It would be wonderful if they could give you instruction in giving liquids subcutaneously. That will hydrate without having to go through the stomach.

[Mel1959]

Sending prayers :sqrrl11

[Tommy.sie]

Just woke up to check her. Let her have some sleep too - you both need it.

Keep the amounts of both water and ensure small so as not to overload her poor tummy. I so hope she begins to turn the corner tomorrow...

Can you call the vet in the AM and see if they can give you something to counteract the nausea and vomiting. It would be wonderful if they could give you instruction in giving liquids subcutaneously. That will hydrate without
having to go through the stomach.



Good morning. We made it through the night. I ended up falling asleep at 4 this morning. She never left her house but i just got her up to give her some endure. I’m going to give it about 30 minutes before I give more water. I want her to start keeping fluids down. Is there anyway milk thistle is making her vomit? She hasn’t since about 1:30 this morning but I haven’t given any milk thistle either. Thank you for keeping us in your thoughts

[CritterMom]

It could be. Leave it out and see what happens. And go slow this morning - don't overwhelm her system.

Is there any treat that she is just crazy for? Her favorite nut or something? A treat like that helps you gauge how she is feeling - if she ignores it you know her stomach either hurts or is causing her to still be nauseated. The second she tries nibbling at it - even if she doesn't finish, is a sign that she is actually feeling better.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Good morning. We made it through the night. I ended up falling asleep at 4 this morning. She never left her house but i just got her up to give her some endure. I’m going to give it about 30 minutes before I give more water. I want her to start keeping fluids down. Is there anyway milk thistle is making her vomit? She hasn’t since about 1:30 this morning but I haven’t given any milk thistle either. Thank you for keeping us in your thoughts

Hi Tommy.sie:
I'm going to be working most of today and probably into the night. I will try my best to monitor your thread. I'm glad that Peanut has had no further vomiting. That is a tremendous sign! If you want to hold off on the Milk Thistle, that will be fine if that seems to be provoking vomiting. Also, I would NOT recommend using Endure or any supplements that have not been found to be safe and beneficial for Squirrels! Using formula such as Esbilac Powdered Puppy diet or Fox Valley 20/50 will help with nutritional support and provide some Plain Water. Catching up on hydration and then providing adequate maintenance hydration is the prime goal for now. Squirrels and most mammals can go for days without eating at all (by stating this I am NOT advocating this but it for emphasis on providing fluids) but they must have adequate fluids provided throughout the day to compensate for abnormal fluid losses such as vomiting or diarrhea and for normal losses such as from sweating or urination. Please use quality Rodent Blocks, recommended Squirrel formulas, and plain, fresh water and do NOT use Endure or any other Human supplements or any supplements that are not Squirrel proven!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Tommy.sie]

Hi Tommy.sie:
I'm going to be working most of today and probably into the night. I will try my best to monitor your thread. I'm glad that Peanut has had no further vomiting. That is a tremendous sign! If you want to hold off on the Milk Thistle, that will be fine if that seems to be provoking vomiting. Also, I would NOT recommend using Endure or any supplements that have not been found to be safe and beneficial for Squirrels! Using formula such as Esbilac Powdered Puppy diet or Fox Valley 20/50 will help with nutritional support and provide some Plain Water. Catching up on hydration and then providing adequate maintenance hydration is the prime goal for now. Squirrels and most mammals can go for days without eating at all (by stating this I am NOT advocating this but it for emphasis on providing fluids) but they must have adequate fluids provided throughout the day to compensate for abnormal fluid losses such as vomiting or diarrhea and for normal losses such as from sweating or urination. Please use quality Rodent Blocks, recommended Squirrel formulas, and plain, fresh water and do NOT use Endure or any other Human supplements or any supplements that are not Squirrel proven!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel



Good morning, she has still been sleeping I just got her out of her cage for a little while. I offered her a blueberry she did not want it I offered her a couple other natural foods for squirrels. Avocado, bananas i’m next going to try an apple. But there’s one thing that I can tempt her with it’s healthy by no means, but I just wanted to see I offered her a mini marshmallow and she ate it. I know like I said it’s not ideal it might not even be good. I just wanted to see if she would eat it and she ate half of it EDIT. Since I know the marshmallow had no nutritional value I grabbed a piece of lettuce from a bag in my fridge. I offered it to her and she snatched it from me. I am going to see if she wishes to eat this mushroom. EDIT #2 she refused a mushroom. But she ate the lettuce

[CritterMom]

Good morning, she has still been sleeping I just got her out of her cage for a little while. I offered her a blueberry she did not want it I offered her a couple other natural foods for squirrels. Avocado, bananas i’m next going to try an apple. But there’s one thing that I can tempt her with it’s healthy by no means, but I just wanted to see I offered her a mini marshmallow and she ate it. I know like I said it’s not ideal it might not even be good. I just wanted to see if she would eat it and she ate half of it EDIT. Since I know the marshmallow had no nutritional value I grabbed a piece of lettuce from a bag in my fridge. I offered it to her and she snatched it from me. I am going to see if she wishes to eat this mushroom. EDIT #2 she refused a mushroom. But she ate the lettuce

Well this is as good as it gets! MARSHMALLOWS? LOL.

So tell us about her normal diet. You have lots of people here who know lots about squirrels - let's do any tweaking to her diet that needs to be done to keep her healthy.

[Tommy.sie]

324243
Well this is as good as it gets! MARSHMALLOWS? LOL.

So tell us about her normal diet. You have lots of people here who know lots about squirrels - let's do any tweaking to her diet that needs to be done to keep her healthy.

Good morning CM. Peanut has eaten two big pieces of lettuce and now she’s working on a couple pieces of carrot. Her main diet consist of exotic nutrition squirrel complete. The food consist of corn, pumpkin, seeds, peanuts walnuts, almonds, dehydrated cranberries, dehydrated sweet potatoes, whole rose hips, diced coconut, dried apple, dried black soldier fly larvae, dried crickets, and dried meal worms. She also gets apples, bananas, grapes, blueberries, along with lettuce, peas, The occasional dandelion and every now and then she’ll get a piece of junk food (an m@m, a piece of gummy worm, sometimes a piece of a chocolate covered almond, and one of her favorites a marshmallow) not all at once but as a treat

[Tommy.sie]

What are the symptoms of aspiration pneumonia. She has not aspirated while I have been syringe feeding and watering her. But is there a possibility she could have on her vomit? if so how do I know? The only symptoms I can find online or clicking when breathing. And what clicking should I be looking for?

[CritterMom]

Can we help you do MUCH better, with a food that she will like?

Exotic Nutrition has good things for lots of critters, especially reptiles and herps. I can't really judge a lot of the mammal foods, but their squirrel products are really not good.

I am sure you have heard of MBD - metabolic bone disease - which is a real issue for squirrels. We at TSB have been helping people fight this for many, many years, but one of the things needed is a food that supplied the vitamins/minerals etc that squirrels needed, while actually TASTING GOOD. There were several rodent foods that had the nutrition needed, but the squirrels didn't like it and I don't need to tell you how hard it is to try to make them eat something they don't like. So one of our members decided to do the research and build a better squirrel food, and her kitchen business is now a full fledged pet supply and the product, Henry's Healthy Bites, are now available in multiple flavors. 2-3 of the blocks have all of the vitamins and minerals that a squirrel needs daily, and they are designed to be fed at that rate with additional healthy veggies and limited fruit (and the occasional treat like, ahem, marshmallows (not letting that go yet).

https://henryspets.com/diets/ - the first three items on the page are what I am referring to. Hazelnut and Picky are the favored flavors. They are sort of a dietary insurance policy. BTW, they have no preservatives, so they should be stored in the freezer when you get them, and any uneaten bits and pieces should be cleaned out of the cage each day.

There is tons of other stuff on the site, too.

[Tommy.sie]

Can we help you do MUCH better, with a food that she will like?

Exotic Nutrition has good things for lots of critters, especially reptiles and herps. I can't really judge a lot of the mammal foods, but their squirrel products are really not good.

I am sure you have heard of MBD - metabolic bone disease - which is a real issue for squirrels. We at TSB have been helping people fight this for many, many years, but one of the things needed is a food that supplied the vitamins/minerals etc that squirrels needed, while actually TASTING GOOD. There were several rodent foods that had the nutrition needed, but the squirrels didn't like it and I don't need to tell you how hard it is to try to make them eat something they don't like. So one of our members decided to do the research and build a better squirrel food, and her kitchen business is now a full fledged pet supply and the product, Henry's Healthy Bites, are now available in multiple flavors. 2-3 of the blocks have all of the vitamins and minerals that a squirrel needs daily, and they are designed to be fed at that rate with additional healthy veggies and limited fruit (and the occasional treat like, ahem, marshmallows (not letting that go yet).

https://henryspets.com/diets/ - the first three items on the page are what I am referring to. Hazelnut and Picky are the favored flavors. They are sort of a dietary insurance policy. BTW, they have no preservatives, so they should be stored in the freezer when you get them, and any uneaten bits and pieces should be cleaned out of the cage each day.

There is tons of other stuff on the site, too.


Alrighty thank you so much I’m definitely going to look into it. I also should mention that she does have a deer antler in her cage along with some mineral blocks that I removed until she’s feeling better. The deer antler for the calcium intake. I find them out in the woods pretty often and I give them to her when I do. I definitely try to limit junk food. But sometimes when she’s running around and getting into everything she’s just too cute not to ❤️

[CritterMom]

What are the symptoms of aspiration pneumonia. She has not aspirated while I have been syringe feeding and watering her. But is there a possibility she could have on her vomit? if so how do I know? The only symptoms I can find online or clicking when breathing. And what clicking should I be looking for?

It is *possible* but aspiration is normally more a baby squirrel thing - they haven't developed the muscle control to prevent that yet. The clicking sound is in the lungs, and can be heard in the chest, not the head or mouth area, and is the result of the congestion forming n the lungs from the pneumonia. The very first sign will be sudden lethargy and loss of appetite, and she seems to be going in the opposite direction of that now.

It isn't a bad idea to have meds on hand in case though. We can help dose human antibiotics - provide the info to properly dilute and dose based on the animal's weight. You can ask friends and family or on social media. You would be looking for leftover unused antibiotics. Not all will work so getting a list of what you have available would be good. Of particular interest would be Cipro or Amoxicillin clavulanate (brand name Augmentin), and if you have friends with animals, a veterinary drug called Baytril. I would ask around. It is always better to do this when you don't need it.

[Tommy.sie]

It is *possible* but aspiration is normally more a baby squirrel thing - they haven't developed the muscle control to prevent that yet. The clicking sound is in the lungs, and can be heard in the chest, not the head or mouth area, and is the result of the congestion forming n the lungs from the pneumonia. The very first sign will be sudden lethargy and loss of appetite, and she seems to be going in the opposite direction of that now.

It isn't a bad idea to have meds on hand in case though. We can help dose human antibiotics - provide the info to properly dilute and dose based on the animal's weight. You can ask friends and family or on social media. You would be looking for leftover unused antibiotics. Not all will work so getting a list of what you have available would be good. Of particular interest would be Cipro or Amoxicillin clavulanate (brand name Augmentin), and if you have friends with animals, a veterinary drug called Baytril. I would ask around. It is always better to do this when you don't need it.

I actually have some amoxicillin from when I had a upper respiratory infection. I’m gonna go ahead and get her weight just to be sure in case I do need it

[Tommy.sie]

UPDATE my peanut has ate about six carrot strips. She’s drinking 3 mL of water through a syringe. She just got down on the bottom of her cage to urinate. And then climb back to the top and started drinking from her bottle again. She has not drank from her bottle in three days.

[Mel1959]

Yay! It sounds like she is recovering. Good job! :w00t:dance

Please look into the Henry’s blocks. The ingredient list for the Exotic Nutrition food looks a little questionable.

[CritterMom]

I would make sure she continues to eat and go ahead and stop forcing the Ensure on her.

This really tore up her poor stomach. You should give her some probiotics to help regulate things. My squirrel just loves yogurt - his latest is a coconut whole milk greek yogurt. He gets about a half to a whole teaspoon a day - I put it in the bowl of a spoon and he stands over it and laps it until that spoon is shiny. Try to get something that is made with whole milk (most yogurt if nonfat) and not the stuff that has chunks of fruit and things mixed in.

If you or someone in the home take probiotics via capsule, the powder in those can be used too. It is kind of bland/sweet and a tiny pinch on anything they eat works well.

Do try the Henry's.

I am absolutely thrilled your little girl is looking so much better. My God, did we need this today.

[Tommy.sie]

Yay! It sounds like she is recovering. Good job! :w00t:dance

Please look into the Henry’s blocks. The ingredient list for the Exotic Nutrition food looks a little questionable.



She is still very lethargic and wanting to sleep. But there has been progress made. Not out of the woods yet but we are praying

[Charley Chuckles]

I'm sorry if this has already been brought up but I'm just wondering about Activated Charcoal Powder they make it for animals.
I have no idea if it would be ok for a squirrel or what dose you would do🤷

[Tommy.sie]

I'm sorry if this has already been brought up but I'm just wondering about Activated Charcoal Powder they make it for animals.
I have no idea if it would be ok for a squirrel or what dose you would do🤷


She was administered activated charcoal within the first 24 hours. What kind of useless after that due to most of the toxins already being absorbed into the blood. Milk thistle is a tonic for liver problems. So that’s why I’m giving her milk thistle

[Tommy.sie]

So currently she’s not wanting anything but carrots. She’s drinking water but I have to coax her by just dipping the tip of the syringe In the Pedialyte and then she’ll drink the water. She only wants the shredded carrots though

[CritterMom]

I would let her pick and choose what she wants to eat right now. Give her a big variety of things to choose from.

[Charley Chuckles]

Even Foxvalley if she will take it🙏

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi Tommy.sie and Peanut:
I just returned home and reviewed your thread. It sounds as if Peanut has made some significant progress with drinking and producing urine! There was also no mention of any new problems and it seems as if the vomiting has resolved! As you are approaching 3 days from the ingestion of the Sago Palm, I'm becoming much more optimistic. How is Peanut doing now!

Apparently the Exotic Nutrition Squirrel Food was discussed. One of the concerns I have with the Exotic Nutrition diet is that while the Calcium content may be ok, it is listed as a wide range and how can we be sure what our Squirrels are actually getting for Elemental Calcium and worse yet; the phosphorus is listed as a Minimum of 30% which means that there is no defined maximum and this is critical! This poses potential problems because along with providing adequate Elemental Calcium; maintaining an ideal Calcium to phosphorus ratio is also necessary to to prevent MBD!

I believe that most on TSB use Henry's Block, Envigo Bocks or Mazuri Blocks or a combination these or make their own Blocks. One of the major purposes of the chosen Squirrel diet other than the obvious of providing for daily nutritional needs is to provide adequate Elemental Calcium and limited phosphorus to prevent the development of Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). For this goal to be met,there must be not just adequate Elemental Calcium but a limit to phosphorus to ensure a Calcium to phosphorus ratio that significantly favors Calcium. Based upon the Nutrient Requirements of Laboratory Animals 4th Edition (the guide that many on TSB including myself use as a Guide to compounding homemade Blocks and is used by Henry's and Envigo) this "ideal" Calcium to phosphorus ratio should be about 1.6 to 2.

Apparently Henry's Blocks were mentioned and these are a good choice for an all inclusive and physiologically balanced diet. They cannot be free-fed however. The usual daily number of Henry's blocks for the "average" adult Squirrel is 2 Blocks (approximately 10 Grams) with a maximum of 3 Blocks depending on the size of the Squirrel and the amount of waste. A Squirrel need considerably more food than the 10 Grams of Henry's Blocks to satisfy hunger. That is one reason for Henry's having the Food Pyramid and extra healthy food should also be provided once the Blocks are consumed or maybe some after one Block is consumed. Also, other quality Block such and Envigo 2018 or Mazuri Rat and Mouse diet are other option. The Envigo and Mazuri Blocks can be free fed (not limited to a certain amount or number of blocks per day).

I would recommend transitioning to Henry's Blocks, Envigo 2018 or Mazuri Rate and Mouse diet or a combination. If Peanut's appetite is going to be limited for some time, Henry's would be a better choice because she will get all her nutritional needs met with only 2 Blocks (possibly 3).

Regards,
SAmtheSquirrel

[Tommy.sie]

So here’s an update. I have peanut on amoxicillin CLAV assisted by a probiotic due to clicking sound when she breathes. The vomiting has subsided she has started to nibble on carrots and other vegetables and she ate a pumpkin seed today. She has a drink from her water bottle a couple of times and she has urinated at least once a day. The one thing I am concerned about is the “wet area” of the eye is blood red. I’m very concerned about internal bleeding. I will post a picture. 324258

[CritterMom]

I told Tommy.sie that this looks like conjunctivitis - that is the nicitating membrane that is red and swollen. I am not sure what is happening with Peanut - is this A/P caused by aspirating vomit or is this something more in the sinuses and thus the eye... Regardless, the amoxicillin clavulanate should help - she has only had 2 doses. Poor thing is going through the wringer. Does anyone think this is something else? Both eyes are involved.

Vetericyn makes an antimicrobial eye gel that they recommend for cats with the same issue. Anyone know of anything better OTC?

[Chirps]

Oh Mercy! Just seeing this thread now. PLEASE Peanut get better!

:please

[Mel1959]

I’m gonna just throw something out there that may or may not be applicable. I have heard of blood vessels in the eyes of humans rupturing due to vomiting or coughing. I have no idea if this is something that could happen with a squirrel or not.

Because you have access to a vet it might be in Peanuts best interest to get her in to see the vet….especially if you are concerned about internal bleeding! A vet would be able to provide the appropriate medication if it’s an eye infection as well as listen to the lungs and determine if AP is a concern.

If you need another squirrel vet Dr. Emerson in Port Orange is one of the best in the country. There are also squirrel vets all over the state of Florida I can provide names for.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I’m gonna just throw something out there that may or may not be applicable. I have heard of blood vessels in the eyes of humans rupturing due to vomiting or coughing. I have no idea if this is something that could happen with a squirrel or not.

Because you have access to a vet it might be in Peanuts best interest to get her in to see the vet….especially if you are concerned about internal bleeding! A vet would be able to provide the appropriate medication if it’s an eye infection as well as listen to the lungs and determine if AP is a concern.

If you need another squirrel vet Dr. Emerson in Port Orange is one of the best in the country. There are also squirrel vets all over the state of Florida I can provide names for.

I just got a moment at work and saw the additional posts to this thread. This does appear consistent with what Mel is referring to! It is call a subconjuntival hemorrhage or subconjunctival hematoma. It is most commonly caused by a sudden increase in pressure in the veins of the conjunctiva which is the thin membrane covering the eye except it does NOT the clear part of the eye called the cornea. My concern in light of Peanut's history would be the possibility of relatively late development of liver damage from the Sago Palm. Apparently the urine has been clear which is very good but liver damage, IF that is what has now developed can affect clotting and it is my opinion that Peanut should be evaluated by her Vet immediately for an examination with focus on the eyes. If this is not definitively a conjunctivitis (infection or inflammation of the conjunctiva) it most likely is what it appears to be and that is bleeding under the conjunctiva. In that case, liver functiuon testing and further lab testing is warranted as well as serious consideration to using Vitamin K. Peanut really seemed to be getting out of the woods and that may be the case still BUT I would recommend an immediate visit with the Vet to evaluate for clotting problems resulting from possible liver damage.

Just my thoughts.

I must be away from TSB again.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

How is Peanut doing?!?
Regards,
StS

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I hope you are OK little Peanut!

[Tashahaven]

Praying for Peanut!! I hope she is feeling better!

Please update if you can. We all care so much!

❤️

[Tommy.sie]

Sorry for not updating. I have been working with Crittermom peanut is using the restroom. She has started to nibble on fruits. She’s still lethargic and she either has a sinus infection or upper respiratory infection. The past few days she’s had a slight yellowish orangeish pinkish reddish discharge coming from her nose. I took her to the vet The other day she weighs 1.2 pounds. They gave me a omnivore IC and the Celine bag with needles to keep her hydrated. She has started drinking on her own here and there. She’s taking amoxicillin a probiotic milk thistle and she has eyedrops for the redness in her eyes. We still have a road to recovery but she is getting there. Still praying every day

[Charley Chuckles]

🙏🙏🙏

[Tommy.sie]

So I have to administer water under the skin. I’m very scared to stick my baby with a needle but I know I have to do it can somebody help me out?

[island rehabber]

Tommy don't panic. Grab the scruff -- the loose skin between his shoulder blades and pull up gently. There will be a little "tent" of skin underneath your fingers and the needle goes right into that little tent. You don't push hard just very very gently and you'll feel it go into the skin. Push the plunger very slowly as the fluids go right into the skin right under the surface. It will create a bolus which will be like a soft lump under the skin --that's good. If you ever saw how mama squirrels grab their babies by the neck and leap through the trees with them, you wouldn't worry about hurting him!

[Diggie's Friend]

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[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Sorry for not updating. I have been working with Crittermom peanut is using the restroom. She has started to nibble on fruits. She’s still lethargic and she either has a sinus infection or upper respiratory infection. The past few days she’s had a slight yellowish orangeish pinkish reddish discharge coming from her nose. I took her to the vet The other day she weighs 1.2 pounds. They gave me a omnivore IC and the Celine bag with needles to keep her hydrated. She has started drinking on her own here and there. She’s taking amoxicillin a probiotic milk thistle and she has eyedrops for the redness in her eyes. We still have a road to recovery but she is getting there. Still praying every day

Thanks for the update Tommy.sie! What is the fluid that you are giving to Peanut subcutaneously (under her skin)? What is the medicine called that she is getting for her eyes? I'm sure your Vet went over this but just for the record, the Emeraid Omnivore Intensive Care is for ORAL (by Mouth) Feeding only! People have become confused with using this because the instructions say that if it is mixed properly it can pass through an 18 gauge feeding needle. They are NOT referring to the typical sharp needle that goes into the skin! A FEEDING NEEDLE is for oral use only, NOT injections. Most likely, your Vet has said that Peanut should be getting the the Emeraid Omnivore Intensive Care mixture placed into her mouth using a 1cc syringe and though a nipple such as a Miracle Nipple; NOT a Feeding Needle. Feedings with a Feeding Needle or a stomach tube (called gavage feeding) requires extra training and experience and these are not usually methods of feeding recommended for pet owners or others untrained in their use. Rehabbers and Vets are usually quite familiar with these methods of feeding.

What Island Rehabber has said about the administration of Subcutaneous (under the skin) Fluids is great advice. Subcutaneous fluid administration is usually quite safe. The needle should NOT be pointed down or angled downward toward Peanut's body. The needle must be passed directly into the "tent" of skin made when you lift up the loose skin over the shoulder region. The needle will then pass into the "space" under the skin. There should be NO or very little resistance (usually the is some slight resistance while gently pushing the fluid through the needle) when using gentle pressure to push the fluid through the needle into the space under the skin. IF the fluid does NOT flow freely through the needle with gentle pressure, do NOT force it; simply reposition the needle and try again.

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel