Help! 4 year old male NR lost back leg movement

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

I would welcome any help.
I am a licensed rehabber and have had several successful releases. I also have a 4 year old male NR bite is off and diagnosed previously with scoliosis by vet. Attributed to injury as baby. He has been healthy and active until last week. Noticed he was staying in his nest and not eating much. Examined and he is lame in his back legs. My primary squirrel vet passed away on Feb. 4 I called my dogs vet who thankfully now has an exotic vet on staff. X-rays we're done. Bone density is good, thank God. Diagnosed with disc issue. Prescribed Meloxidyl by weight. Been administering for 6 days. Now seeing what appears to be reflex movement. Sometimes it's like he's trying to move or he gets in a certain position and his lower section spasms. Vet believes no pain. Appetite is severely diminished will take water a couple times a day. Ate a grape and watermelon only today. Won't touch blocks (never had but I try), nuts, peanut butter, molassas or about 20 other fruits and veg. I'm terrified I'm going to loose him. He is a huge part of my life.
Question:
What can I feed him for nutrients? He seems agreeable to liquids maybe something I can put in a syringe?
I've been massaging and doing gentle manual leg movements. Any other suggestions? Warm water bath or too much stress. Not mobile so don't want to use heating pad.
Poops we're very dry have increased hydration - look better, haven't seen urine output but he must be. Manually stimulating, no bloat.
Any additional medication suggestions?
Would gelatin or Knox blocks help, should I try protein...eggs?
Does anyone have experience in recovery from this.
Speaking with vet Monday, terrified she is going to recommend euthanasia. Please, any advice. I just can't do that.

[Mel1959]

I’m sorry your girl is having issues. I had a dwarf squirrel that I fed by syringe for his entire life, which was 3.5 years. I ground up rodent block (Harlan Teklad) and mixed it with baby food (fruits and veggies) and then thinned it with enough Fox Valley/Ultraboost formula so it would flow through a syringe. You can also try pecan flavored Ensure that is sold as a supplement for people. It could be mixed with the baby food and rodent block. They’re a product called Nutrical for dogs that’s concentrated in calories. It’s a paste. I’ve never had great luck with it, but others have. My vet also recommended fine grind Critical Care which has alfalfa and lots of other ingredients and extra calories that can be fed by syringe. I think it’s geared more for bunnies or other critters, but she uses it for squirrels too.

As you know dehydration decreases appetite so giving more fluids is a good idea.

Did your vet ever suggest prednisolone or Gabapentin to help with neurological issues. Many folks have had great success with both drugs.

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

I’m sorry your girl is having issues. I had a dwarf squirrel that I fed by syringe for his entire life, which was 3.5 years. I ground up rodent block (Harlan Teklad) and mixed it with baby food (fruits and veggies) and then thinned it with enough Fox Valley/Ultraboost formula so it would flow through a syringe. You can also try pecan flavored Ensure that is sold as a supplement for people. It could be mixed with the baby food and rodent block. They’re a product called Nutrical for dogs that’s concentrated in calories. It’s a paste. I’ve never had great luck with it, but others have. My vet also recommended fine grind Critical Care which has alfalfa and lots of other ingredients and extra calories that can be fed by syringe. I think it’s geared more for bunnies or other critters, but she uses it for squirrels too.

As you know dehydration decreases appetite so giving more fluids is a good idea.

Did your vet ever suggest prednisolone or Gabapentin to help with neurological issues. Many folks have had great success with both drugs.

Thank you!!!! I did read about Prednisone and Gabapentin last night on the board asking vet on Monday. Is there one you prefer? Both? I'll get everything that I can find that you mentioned tomorrow morning. I'll try anything. Thank you. Any input on warm water bath?

[Mel1959]

My vet has given me prednisolone. It is dosed the same as prednisone. The difference might be the form, prednisolone has been given to me in liquid form. The dosage for it is based on what the purpose for use is. A lower dose of prednisone (0.25-0.50 mg/kg) is used for anti-inflammatory purposes. A higher dose (1-2 mg/kg) is used as an immunosuppressive dose. I have kept a squirrel on prednisolone for several weeks for head trauma with a positive outcome. The one caution is that prednisone will lower the serum calcium levels and can make seizures worse. If your squirrel is having any seizures it can be dosed if given with calcium supplementation.

Equally a rehabber TSB member has used Gabapentin with amazing results.

Most squirrels like a warm sitz bath. It might make her legs relax and feel good for her. If you try it and sense she’s not enjoying it then stop. Make sure the water is warm, but not hot (a squirrels body temp is higher than ours) and dry her very well so she doesn’t get chilled.

Good luck with the vet tomorrow

[CritterMom]

OK, I want to double back here.

In your original post you mentioned that your squirrel isn't eating ANY rodent blocks. You also mentioned that you didn't think it could be MBD because he had been x-rayed and his bones looked okay. But it is all a little more complicated than that. In addition to forcing the body to leach calcium out of the bones to compensate, a diet too high in phosphorus and too low in calcium also affects the muscles. The "paralysis" seen in MBD is just that - not bone damage but muscles that have lost the ability to contract. I think it is very possible - maybe even probably, that your squirrel has MBD despite it not showing (yet) in the bones. Given that starting treatment for it absolutely will not do ANY harm, I would strongly suggest you start that right now.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?17680-Emergency-Treatment-for-MBD-(Updated-3-31-09)

Spread the treatments out through the day. He may LIKE the Tums - get fruit flavored and DON'T get mint of any kind (rodents don't like) and will willingly eat pieces, but if not, dissolve in water and syringe it into him.

If the back end issue was caused by trauma from a fall or the like, prednisone can absolutely help. Sometimes internal swelling will press nerves that don't like it and since steroids are powerful anti-inflammatories, it can help. I see Mel has aloso gone into this.

Please try the MBD treatment, and purchase some Henry's blocks: https://www.henryspets.com/diets/ The Picky Blocks and the Hazelnut are popular. They are a supplement as well as a good tasting food and 2-3 a day will provide all of the vitamins and minerals he requires.

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

OK, I want to double back here.

In your original post you mentioned that your squirrel isn't eating ANY rodent blocks. You also mentioned that you didn't think it could be MBD because he had been x-rayed and his bones looked okay. it is all a little more complicated than that. In addition to forcing the body to leach calcium out of the bones to compensate, a diet too high in phosphorus and too low in calcium also affects the muscles. The "paralysis" seen in MBD is just that - not bone damage but muscles that have lost the ability to contract. I think it is very possible - maybe even probably, that your squirrel has MBD despite it not showing (yet) in the bones. Given that starting treatment for it absolutely will not do ANY harm, I would strongly suggest you start that right now.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?17680-Emergency-Treatment-for-MBD-(Updated-3-31-09)

Spread the treatments out through the day. He may LIKE the Tums - get fruit flavored and DON'T get mint of any kind (rodents don't like) and will willingly eat pieces, but if not, dissolve in water and syringe it into him.

If the back end issue was caused by trauma from a fall or the like, prednisone can absolutely help. Sometimes internal swelling will press nerves that don't like it and since steroids are powerful anti-inflammatories, it can help. I see Mel has aloso gone into this.

Please try the MBD treatment, and purchase some Henry's blocks: https://www.henryspets.com/diets/ The Picky Blocks and the Hazelnut are popular. They are a supplement as well as a good tasting food and 2-3 a day will provide all of the vitamins and minerals he requires.

Thank you for the feedback greatly appreciated I have the Henry's Picky Eater Blocks I will try again l soak and mash and pray he eats them. I also have the calcium carbonate from them will be vigilant in my efforts now that I understand bone density is not necessarily the indicator. I do give him tums regularly but not in the doses listed daily. Thank you for the information I am very thankful. Would you recommend holding off on additional meds until I give this a few days? Will continue meloxidyl as directed. Was going to ask for Prednisone or Gabapentin tomorrow what do you think? Wait or additional meds?

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi Squirrel Girl Des Moines:
I have a few comments and suggestions but please understand that I am not a Vet. What is the name of your little girl Squirrel?
It appears that the basis for your Squirrel's being an NR is dental issues and not chronic problems from a back injury or neurological conditions. I assume that when the "diagnosis" of "scoliosis" was made, it was based upon x-ray studies. Scoliosis is a curvature of the spine laterally (to the side). It is not that Squirrels or other quadrupedal (walk of 4 feet) animals cannot develop scoliosis but it is usually associated with animals/humans who are bipedal (walk and stand on two feet). Oftentimes, x-rays studies on animals can be very deceptive when it comes to evaluating the curvature of the spine because the spine is normally very flexible and because of issues with positioning or struggling of the animal; the spine may appear to be curved laterally suggesting scoliosis on the x-ray but when released from restraint, their spines resume a normal alignment!

Also, Disc disease may exist in your Squirrel but it cannot be diagnosed with an x-ray study because the discs which lie between the back bones (called vertebrae) cannot be seen on plain film x-ray studies and in a small active animal, it is truly difficult to get an accurate "picture" of the spaces between the vertebrae with plain film x-ray studies. Also, for there to be relatively sudden and essentially symmetrical (occurring on both sides in nearly identical fashion) physical signs would make disc disease unlikely as the nerves that exit the spine to go to both rear extremities from both sides of the spine at the same levels would need to be affected by a sudden manifestation of observable weakness of both rear extremities with almost the same degree and type. This is not impossible but statistically very unlikely!

I suspect that the underlying problem is as CritterMiom has suggested and that your Squirrel has Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). This would also explain the significantly decreased appetite your Squirrel is exhibiting! An x-ray study of the bones is often very helpful in confirming the diagnosis of MBD BUT before the bones have lost enough calcium to be be obvious on x-ray, they can still have had significant progression of the disease. Because of this, we can sometimes rule-in the diagnosis of MBD with an x-ray study but we CANNOT rule-out the condition just based upon what appears to be a normal x-ray study!

I too, would recommend that you IMMEDIATELY begin an Emergency Treatment Protocol for MBD. The link that CM provided is derived from Henry's MBD protocol. It is relatively simple to utilize and extremely safe and will be harmless in the event that your Squirrel does not have MBD. If she does, however, the Treatment can be function-saving, fracture-preventing and even life-saving! Here is a link to Henry's page that discusses MBD and at the bottom of that page is a link to the Emergency Treatment of MBD.

I would at least strongly suggest considering at least putting the steroid use on hold at this time. With the MBD Emergency Treatment, there is usually significant, early, improvement in appetite and function but the condition itself requires months to resolve and adequate maintenance supplementation with Calcium and avoidance of excessive phosphorus will need to continue forever! I am not a "big-time" rehabber as are many on this site so my experiential database is much more limited than theirs but I have had three Squirrels brought to me at different times that had clinical evidence of MBD and all three made essentially full recoveries using the Henry's Protocol with a minimal "tweaking from me.

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Spanky]

. Would you recommend holding off on additional meds until I give this a few days? Will continue meloxidyl as directed. Was going to ask for Prednisone or Gabapentin tomorrow what do you think? Wait or additional meds?

I will agree with CM and StS to start the MBD protocol and stick with it for a few days at least... seems most likely to me as well.

I want to also add that meloxidy is an NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug) and should not be given at the same time as steroids like prednisone. There should be a 24 hours period between the last dose of meloxidyl and the first dose of steroids. They can be on gabapentin and either the meloxidyl or steroids at the same time.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I too, would recommend that you IMMEDIATELY begin an Emergency Treatment Protocol for MBD. The link that CM provided is derived from Henry's MBD protocol. It is relatively simple to utilize and extremely safe and will be harmless in the event that your Squirrel does not have MBD. If she does, however, the Treatment can be function-saving, fracture-preventing and even life-saving! Here is a link to Henry's page that discusses MBD and at the bottom of that page is a link to the Emergency Treatment of MBD.

Sorry, I neglected to post the Link to Henry's MBD page. This is it: https://henryspets.com/what-is-metabolic-bone-disease/
Regards,
StS

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I will agree with CM and StS to start the MBD protocol and stick with it for a few days at least... seems most likely to me as well.

I want to also add that meloxidy is an NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug) and should not be given at the same time as steroids like prednisone. There should be a 24 hours period between the last dose of meloxidyl and the first dose of steroids. They can be on gabapentin and either the meloxidyl or steroids at the same time.


Extremely Important Point! Thanks Spanky! Never use both Steroids and NSAIDS (some examples are Meloxidyl (Melxicam) and Ibuprofen)!
StS

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

Sorry, I neglected to post the Link to Henry's MBD page. This is it: https://henryspets.com/what-is-metabolic-bone-disease/
Regards,
StS

Thank you so much for the help. MBD emergency treatment started. I am praying for results. He is a trooper taking the calcium. ❤️ I will update tomorrow. Henrys block under his nose. He's using it as a head rest. So relieved, got 800 mg calcium in him over the course of the day. Will hold off on additional meds.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you so much for the help. MBD emergency treatment started. I am praying for results. He is a trooper taking the calcium. ❤️ I will update tomorrow. Henrys block under his nose. He's using it as a head rest. So relieved, got 800 mg calcium in him over the course of the day. Will hold off on additional meds.

Thanks for the update! Is your Squirrel male or female. With this post it appears male but prior posts seemed female. Is "he" still deciding on his pronouns (sign of the times!)?

Also, what is the name of your Squirrel?

What are you using as a supplemental Calcium source. Is is Tums (which do not contain Vitamin D or is it one of the commercial Calcium supplements? IF this is a supplement and contains Vitamin D, it would be best to stop it now and use a Calcium source free of Vitamin D. Almost all of the Calcium supplements available in the USA contain Vitamin D. While Vitamin D is certainly important for your Squirrel, he will get all he needs from Blocks. The amount of Vitamin D present in the commercial Calcium supplements are calculated for humans and the Vitamin D present far exceeds the safe amount for a relatively tiny Squirrel and would be dangerous to use! Tums are great because your Squirrel will probably like them and they contain Calcium carbonate without Vitamin D!

Henry's will make a better head rest than the hard Envigo Blocks but is your Squirrel eventually eating the Henry's blocks?

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CritterMom]

I would drop the amount of calcium from here on out to about 500mg per day unless he is a really big squirrel!

You can do some "doctoring" to get him to accept the Henrys. Chop a block up super fine (or grind it if you have a little grinder) so you have crumbs. Then mix in just enough peanut or almond butter so you can stick the crumbs back together and roll it into little balls. Or using a really sharp knife, slice a block into three slices, smear a little nut butter in between them to make a triple decker sandwich. You can even add some of your calcium to these little concoctions.

The Henry's have calcium IN them already. Two of the Picky Blocks have 275mg in them, so if you get him eating his Henrys, you can reduce the additional calcium accordingly.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I would drop the amount of calcium from here on out to about 500mg per day unless he is a really big squirrel!

You can do some "doctoring" to get him to accept the Henrys. Chop a block up super fine (or grind it if you have a little grinder) so you have crumbs. Then mix in just enough peanut or almond butter so you can stick the crumbs back together and roll it into little balls. Or using a really sharp knife, slice a block into three slices, smear a little nut butter in between them to make a triple decker sandwich. You can even add some of your calcium to these little concoctions.

The Henry's have calcium IN them already. Two of the Picky Blocks have 275mg in them, so if you get him eating his Henrys, you can reduce the additional calcium accordingly.

Hi CM & SGDM:
That concern is why I wanted to find out what specifically is the Calcium preparation SGDM is using as IF this is truly Elemental Calcium, 800mg may be excessive, especially if the Squirrel is already eating HHB's BUT if this is 800mg of Calcium carbonate or Calcium citrate, the Squirrel may actually need more Calcium because the elemental Calcium contained in 800mg of Calcium carbonate would only be 320mg and the Elemental calcium contained in Calcium citrate would only be 168mg!

Squirrel Girl Des Moines, please let us know what you are using for Calcium supplementation and what specifically does the wording of the label say?

Regards,
StS

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

Thanks for the update! Is your Squirrel male or female. With this post it appears male but prior posts seemed female. Is "he" still deciding on his pronouns (sign of the times!)?

Also, what is the name of your Squirrel?

What are you using as a supplemental Calcium source. Is is Tums (which do not contain Vitamin D or is it one of the commercial Calcium supplements? IF this is a supplement and contains Vitamin D, it would be best to stop it now and use a Calcium source free of Vitamin D. Almost all of the Calcium supplements available in the USA contain Vitamin D. While Vitamin D is certainly important for your Squirrel, he will get all he needs from Blocks. The amount of Vitamin D present in the commercial Calcium supplements are calculated for humans and the Vitamin D present far exceeds the safe amount for a relatively tiny Squirrel and would be dangerous to use! Tums are great because your Squirrel will probably like them and they contain Calcium carbonate without Vitamin D!

Henry's will make a better head rest than the hard Envigo Blocks but is your Squirrel eventually eating the Henry's blocks?

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Thank you for the much needed laugh. A boy! His name is A. Cornelius, Corn Pop for short. I am using the emergency MBD Calcium Carbonate from Henry's. They recommend 800mg. to start. Will drop to 500 mg. as directed tomorrow. Mixed with about 10 drops of juice (watermelon and grape, juiced from fresh fruit not packaged) a pinch of fruit Tums because he likes those and warm water. Nope not touching the blocks and doesn't eat peanut butter. Tried to mash with fruit, no go wouldn't touch them Will try with avocado. Hmmm...maybe almond butter???? Would that be okay?

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

Hi CM & SGDM:
That concern is why I wanted to find out what specifically is the Calcium preparation SGDM is using as IF this is truly Elemental Calcium, 800mg may be excessive, especially if the Squirrel is already eating HHB's BUT if this is 800mg of Calcium carbonate or Calcium citrate, the Squirrel may actually need more Calcium because the elemental Calcium contained in 800mg of Calcium carbonate would only be 320mg and the Elemental calcium contained in Calcium citrate would only be 168mg!

Squirrel Girl Des Moines, please let us know what you are using for Calcium supplementation and what specifically does the wording of the label say?

Regards,
StS

Help again! Now confused Using Calcium Carbonate from Henry's. According to the package 800mg. Elemental Calcium. Should it be more????

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

I would drop the amount of calcium from here on out to about 500mg per day unless he is a really big squirrel!

You can do some "doctoring" to get him to accept the Henrys. Chop a block up super fine (or grind it if you have a little grinder) so you have crumbs. Then mix in just enough peanut or almond butter so you can stick the crumbs back together and roll it into little balls. Or using a really sharp knife, slice a block into three slices, smear a little nut butter in between them to make a triple decker sandwich. You can even add some of your calcium to these little concoctions.

The Henry's have calcium IN them already. Two of the Picky Blocks have 275mg in them, so if you get him eating his Henrys, you can reduce the additional calcium accordingly.

Is almond butter okay? He's never eaten peanut butter I've tried. Grinder is a really good idea thank you!

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

Extremely Important Point! Thanks Spanky! Never use both Steroids and NSAIDS (some examples are Meloxidyl (Melxicam) and Ibuprofen)!
StS


Thank you!!

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

Hi Squirrel Girl Des Moines:
I have a few comments and suggestions but please understand that I am not a Vet. What is the name of your little girl Squirrel?
It appears that the basis for your Squirrel's being an NR is dental issues and not chronic problems from a back injury or neurological conditions. I assume that when the "diagnosis" of "scoliosis" was made, it was based upon x-ray studies. Scoliosis is a curvature of the spine laterally (to the side). It is not that Squirrels or other quadrupedal (walk of 4 feet) animals cannot develop scoliosis but it is usually associated with animals/humans who are bipedal (walk and stand on two feet). Oftentimes, x-rays studies on animals can be very deceptive when it comes to evaluating the curvature of the spine because the spine is normally very flexible and because of issues with positioning or struggling of the animal; the spine may appear to be curved laterally suggesting scoliosis on the x-ray but when released from restraint, their spines resume a normal alignment!

Also, Disc disease may exist in your Squirrel but it cannot be diagnosed with an x-ray study because the discs which lie between the back bones (called vertebrae) cannot be seen on plain film x-ray studies and in a small active animal, it is truly difficult to get an accurate "picture" of the spaces between the vertebrae with plain film x-ray studies. Also, for there to be relatively sudden and essentially symmetrical (occurring on both sides in nearly identical fashion) physical signs would make disc disease unlikely as the nerves that exit the spine to go to both rear extremities from both sides of the spine at the same levels would need to be affected by a sudden manifestation of observable weakness of both rear extremities with almost the same degree and type. This is not impossible but statistically very unlikely!

I suspect that the underlying problem is as CritterMiom has suggested and that your Squirrel has Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). This would also explain the significantly decreased appetite your Squirrel is exhibiting! An x-ray study of the bones is often very helpful in confirming the diagnosis of MBD BUT before the bones have lost enough calcium to be be obvious on x-ray, they can still have had significant progression of the disease. Because of this, we can sometimes rule-in the diagnosis of MBD with an x-ray study but we CANNOT rule-out the condition just based upon what appears to be a normal x-ray study!

I too, would recommend that you IMMEDIATELY begin an Emergency Treatment Protocol for MBD. The link that CM provided is derived from Henry's MBD protocol. It is relatively simple to utilize and extremely safe and will be harmless in the event that your Squirrel does not have MBD. If she does, however, the Treatment can be function-saving, fracture-preventing and even life-saving! Here is a link to Henry's page that discusses MBD and at the bottom of that page is a link to the Emergency Treatment of MBD.

I would at least strongly suggest considering at least putting the steroid use on hold at this time. With the MBD Emergency Treatment, there is usually significant, early, improvement in appetite and function but the condition itself requires months to resolve and adequate maintenance supplementation with Calcium and avoidance of excessive phosphorus will need to continue forever! I am not a "big-time" rehabber as are many on this site so my experiential database is much more limited than theirs but I have had three Squirrels brought to me at different times that had clinical evidence of MBD and all three made essentially full recoveries using the Henry's Protocol with a minimal "tweaking from me.

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

really insightful, thank you. Incredibly grateful!

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

[QUOTE=SamtheSquirrel2018;1355724]Hi CM & SGDM:
That concern is why I wanted to find out what specifically is the Calcium preparation SGDM is using as IF this is truly Elemental Calcium, 800mg may be excessive, especially if the Squirrel is already eating HHB's BUT if this is 800mg of Calcium carbonate or Calcium citrate, the Squirrel may actually need more Calcium because the elemental Calcium contained in 800mg of Calcium carbonate would only be 320mg and the Elemental calcium contained in Calcium citrate would only be 168mg!

Squirrel Girl Des Moines, please let us know what you are using for Calcium supplementation and what specifically does the wording of the label say?

Regards,
StS

Help again! Now confused Using Calcium Carbonate from Henry's. According to the package 800mg. Elemental Calcium. Should it be more????

I'm not sure what Henry's Calcium carbonate has 800mg of Elemental Calcium stated on the package label for a particular serving size. The Calcium carbonate package from Henry's that I am familiar with contains 400mg of Elemental Calcium for each gram of Calcium carbonate (1Gram is 1000mg and since Calcium carbonate contains 40% Elemental Calcium by weight; the Elemental calcium in 1Gram is 1000mg x 0.4=400mg). If this is the preparation you are using, Henry's has determined that the weight of 1Gram will fill the volume of 1/3 measured teaspoon of the Calcium carbonate they sell. Please look at the label and post what it says. The Calcium supplementation should not be given as a single dose but the daily dose (lets say 500mg) should be given in divided doses throughout the day. Henry's recommends 5 dosings per day which if you "mathed it" would be every 4.8 hours!?! You don't need to be this accurate or obsessive. Just don't give it all at once and divide the total daily dose into 4, 5 or 6 doses and give it over 24 hours. If you gave Corn Pop 800mg of Elemental Calcium today, you did NO harm! 500mg per day would be better going forward and just divide it up throughout the day. I have found that it is much easier to actually weigh the supplemental Calcium and I have a small digital scale that a tare weight can be set. Using this, I turn on the scale, put the small container I am going to use to contain the measured weight of Calcium carbonate, push the Tare button to zero the scale and then put in the amount of Calcium carbonate needed to get the scale to read the calculated amount in milligrams. If you make some sort of "dough" with a small amount of anything Corn Pop likes such as fruit (I have had good luck giving medication and Calcium supplementation in a small amount of "squished" banana but you can be creative. Remember, the Prime Directive (to utilize Star Trek jargon) is to get the Calcium dosed! Henry's recommends peanut butter but CP doesn't seem to like it and really, the almond butter that you asked about would be healthier than the peanut butter anyway. I would suggest using roasted but NOT salted almonds as you butter base (this preferred over raw almonds) as roasting will add a little calcium content and decrease the phosphorus and oxalate content a bit as well! If CP likes Almond Butter, you can put the the entire daily dose of Calcium carbonate in a relatively small amount of Almond Butter; mix it thoroughly and then divide it by "eyeballing it" into 4,5 or 6 fairly equal portions corresponding to the number of times you are going to does the Calcium in a day and then give one of those portions of the Almond Butter/Calcium dough for each does. Again, the most important thing is to get the Calcium into Corn Pop!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I meant "Dose," not "does" in my post above. My typing leave much to be desired! My untrained fingers apparently push the E key before the S key as they "fly" over the keyboard!
How is Corn Pop doing this morning?
StS

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

I meant "Dose," not "does" in my post above. My typing leave much to be desired! My untrained fingers apparently push the E key before the S key as they "fly" over the keyboard!
How is Corn Pop doing this morning?
StS

For the life of me I cannot figure out how to upload a photo, I have one of the back of the package.

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

For the life of me I cannot figure out how to upload a photo, I have one of the back of the package.

324194

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

[QUOTE=Squirrel Girl Des Moines;1355749]324194[/QUOTE

I did it!

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

[QUOTE=Squirrel Girl Des Moines;1355728]
I'm not sure what Henry's Calcium carbonate has 800mg of Elemental Calcium stated on the package label for a particular serving size. The Calcium carbonate package from Henry's that I am familiar with contains 400mg of Elemental Calcium for each gram of Calcium carbonate (1Gram is 1000mg and since Calcium carbonate contains 40% Elemental Calcium by weight; the Elemental calcium in 1Gram is 1000mg x 0.4=400mg). If this is the preparation you are using, Henry's has determined that the weight of 1Gram will fill the volume of 1/3 measured teaspoon of the Calcium carbonate they sell. Please look at the label and post what it says.l

Hi SGDM:
Yes, your photo shows the Henry's Calcium Carbonate Supplement that I am familiar with. For the 800mg of "Calcium" you mentioned in your post; did you weigh out 800mg of the powder from the bag with a scale? If so, you have only given 320mg of Elemental Calcium (800 of Calcium carbonate x 0.4 equals 320mg of Elemental Calcium). If you computed 800mg of Elemental Calcium, the original weight of the Calcium carbonate necessary to provide 800mg of Elemental Calcium would be 2000mg (2 Grams of the powdered calcium carbonate). To get 500 mg of Elemental Calcium you would need to weigh out 1250 mg or 1.25 Grams of the powdered calcium carbonate from the package.

If you would like to use the measuring guide on the package and use volumes instead of actual weights; to get 500mg of Elemental Calcium, use a full 1/4 teaspoon measuring spoon plus a 1/8 teaspoon measuring spoon and you will get a total of 495mg of Elemental Calcium measured out. I would err a little bit on high side and maybe more than that depending on what you observe while Corn Pop is eating his Calcium laced Almond Butter to ensure that if a significant amount seems to be wasted, you can add a extra Calcium to make up for this. That will ensure that Corn Pop will eat the full recommended 500mg of Elemental Calcium over a day's time.

I'm sure I have made this appear more complicated than it is or needs to be. If this was Rocket Science, I would have blown myself up years ago! The bottom line is that an "average sized" adult Squirrel with MBD should be getting about 500mg (can be a little more but I would not recommend less than 500mg) of Elemental Calcium daily divided into 4 or 5 servings which is the treatment dose, not the maintenance dose which will come later on. If CP will eat Henry's Blocks (they can be mixed with small amounts of Almond Butter, Baby Food or Formula in order to make it the consistency that CP will be able to eat and/or to enhance the taste if that is necessary to get him to eat 2 of them a day (they can also be divided up and portions given throughout the day). If Corn Pop eats most of 2 Henry's blocks daily he will be getting a little over 250mg of Elemental Calcium and you can cut down the Supplemental Calcium carbonate to provide about 250mg of Elemental Calcium.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

[QUOTE=SamtheSquirrel2018;1355733]

Hi SGDM:
Yes, your photo shows the Henry's Calcium Carbonate Supplement that I am familiar with. For the 800mg of "Calcium" you mentioned in your post; did you weigh out 800mg of the powder from the bag with a scale? If so, you have only given 320mg of Elemental Calcium (800 of Calcium carbonate x 0.4 equals 320mg of Elemental Calcium). If you computed 800mg of Elemental Calcium, the original weight of the Calcium carbonate necessary to provide 800mg of Elemental Calcium would be 2000mg (2 Grams of the powdered calcium carbonate). To get 500 mg of Elemental Calcium you would need to weigh out 1250 mg or 1.25 Grams of the powdered calcium carbonate from the package.

If you would like to use the measuring guide on the package and use volumes instead of actual weights; to get 500mg of Elemental Calcium, use a full 1/4 teaspoon measuring spoon plus a 1/8 teaspoon measuring spoon and you will get a total of 495mg of Elemental Calcium measured out. I would err a little bit on high side and maybe more than that depending on what you observe while Corn Pop is eating his Calcium laced Almond Butter to ensure that if a significant amount seems to be wasted, you can add a extra Calcium to make up for this. That will ensure that Corn Pop will eat the full recommended 500mg of Elemental Calcium over a day's time.

I'm sure I have made this appear more complicated than it is or needs to be. If this was Rocket Science, I would have blown myself up years ago! The bottom line is that an "average sized" adult Squirrel with MBD should be getting about 500mg (can be a little more but I would not recommend less than 500mg) of Elemental Calcium daily divided into 4 or 5 servings which is the treatment dose, not the maintenance dose which will come later on. If CP will eat Henry's Blocks (they can be mixed with small amounts of Almond Butter, Baby Food or Formula in order to make it the consistency that CP will be able to eat and/or to enhance the taste if that is necessary to get him to eat 2 of them a day (they can also be divided up and portions given throughout the day). If Corn Pop eats most of 2 Henry's blocks daily he will be getting a little over 250mg of Elemental Calcium and you can cut down the Supplemental Calcium carbonate to provide about 250mg of Elemental Calcium.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Thank you so much...I think I got it! Update: he is more feisty today! Which makes me incredibly relieved. He did taste the Henry's with the almond butter. Not thrilled but, he'll need to learn. Can I still give him fruits and veggies?? If I don't I'm concerned he won't eat at all. And obviously he's been through a lot and I feel like a horrible mom. HIS POOPS ARE WHITE!!! I've cute back to the 500 dose using measuring spoons now. He took 2 doses like a trooper today and now is refusing!!! Asking for more advice...sorry I'm so needy!!!! Also should I dose through the night! Gah...I thought I was good at this. I'll do anything to help him. Thank you again for tolerating and helping me.

[CritterMom]

Yes on fruits and veggies - more veggies and less fruits. The Henry's are designed to be fed with healthy fruits and veggies.

He also got some calcium in the HHB he ate. BTW, you can also add calcium to a little fruit juice and give by syringe. I would not fight him tonight, and regroup in the morning. And no, you don't have to get up through the night.

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

Yes on fruits and veggies - more veggies and less fruits. The Henry's are designed to be fed with healthy fruits and veggies.

He also got some calcium in the HHB he ate. BTW, you can also add calcium to a little fruit juice and give by syringe. I would not fight him tonight, and regroup in the morning. And no, you don't have to get up through the night.

Thank you so very much.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

[QUOTE=SamtheSquirrel2018;1355755]

Thank you so much...I think I got it! Update: he is more feisty today! Which makes me incredibly relieved. He did taste the Henry's with the almond butter. Not thrilled but, he'll need to learn. Can I still give him fruits and veggies?? If I don't I'm concerned he won't eat at all. And obviously he's been through a lot and I feel like a horrible mom. HIS POOPS ARE WHITE!!! I've cute back to the 500 dose using measuring spoons now. He took 2 doses like a trooper today and now is refusing!!! Asking for more advice...sorry I'm so needy!!!! Also should I dose through the night! Gah...I thought I was good at this. I'll do anything to help him. Thank you again for tolerating and helping me.

The white poop is most likely because of the relatively large dose of Calcium you recently gave (800mg all at once). Don't worry but we do not want this to continue! Also, I just want to emphasize once again that the 500mg of Elemental Calcium is the full daily dose and is to be divided up for dosing throughout the day. 500mg is NOT the dose to given each time! In other words, assuming that you are giving the Calcium 5 times daily as is recommended by Henry's; each of the 5 doses should contain only 100mg of Elemental Calcium (NOT 500mg!). With the fact that Corn Pop has the white stools, my suggestion would be, for now, anyway; to give the Calcium no less often than 5 times in 24 hours as absorption of the calcium will be enhanced with the smaller doses that are made possible by more frequent feedings. I would expect that CP's poop will return to normal in the next 24 hours or so. If they continue, it may be necessary to give somewhat less Calcium for the total daily dose and/or divide the total daily dose of Elemental Calcium into 6 portions and then dose 6 times per day rather than 5 time per day. This should also aid in absorption of the Calcium. For at least the next few days, I would recommend regular dosing that would result in nearly the same interval passing between doses. That would probably include some dosing during the night. Once he is eating his blocks and the supplemental dose of Calcium is decreased and his stools are no longer white, it is certainly not unreasonable to have a slightly longer dosing interval at night to permit you and Corn Pop to have some additional uninterrupted sleep! Do what you can to enhance CP's intake of Henry's Blocks to 2 per day. Again, the Henry's Blocks can be divided up, made into a dough or paste and mixed with stuff; what ever it will take. Two Henry's blocks will provide all of Corn Pop's nutritional need including maintenance Calcium (but NOT treatment Calcium!).

By the way, you are good at this! You are a very loving, caring and conscientious Squirrel Mom!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi Squirrel Girl Des Moines:
I inadvertently overlooked CritterMom's post. I don't want to cause any confusion or worse yet, dissension, with my post and I will defer to CM's post and her comments!
Regards,
StS

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

[QUOTE=Squirrel Girl Des Moines;1355765]

The white poop is most likely because of the relatively large dose of Calcium you recently gave (800mg all at once). Don't worry but we do not want this to continue! Also, I just want to emphasize once again that the 500mg of Elemental Calcium is the full daily dose and is to be divided up for dosing throughout the day. 500mg is NOT the dose to given each time! In other words, assuming that you are giving the Calcium 5 times daily as is recommended by Henry's; each of the 5 doses should contain only 100mg of Elemental Calcium (NOT 500mg!). With the fact that Corn Pop has the white stools, my suggestion would be, for now, anyway; to give the Calcium no less often than 5 times in 24 hours as absorption of the calcium will be enhanced with the smaller doses that are made possible by more frequent feedings. I would expect that CP's poop will return to normal in the next 24 hours or so. If they continue, it may be necessary to give somewhat less Calcium for the total daily dose and/or divide the total daily dose of Elemental Calcium into 6 portions and then dose 6 times per day rather than 5 time per day. This should also aid in absorption of the Calcium. For at least the next few days, I would recommend regular dosing that would result in nearly the same interval passing between doses. That would probably include some dosing during the night. Once he is eating his blocks and the supplemental dose of Calcium is decreased and his stools are no longer white, it is certainly not unreasonable to have a slightly longer dosing interval at night to permit you and Corn Pop to have some additional uninterrupted sleep! Do what you can to enhance CP's intake of Henry's Blocks to 2 per day. Again, the Henry's Blocks can be divided up, made into a dough or paste and mixed with stuff; what ever it will take. Two Henry's blocks will provide all of Corn Pop's nutritional need including maintenance Calcium (but NOT treatment Calcium!).

By the way, you are good at this! You are a very loving, caring and conscientious Squirrel Mom!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Update!!!!! I think he's doing better!!!! Appetite has increased and he even took 3 whole bites of Henry's with almond butter I almost cried! Ate avocado, grape and watermelon....won't touch the kale never has but I try! And ...I think I may have seen just a smidge of movement in his back legs ..maybe. He had a warm bath, dried carefully and thoroughly and is tucked in warm and snug. I've dropped to the 500mg dose giving little bits every 5-6 hours. I kissed him about 10000 times today.

Question:. Should I continue the meloxidyl? Been in it1 week.

Thank you for your kind words about my squirrel mom status. It's gutted me seeing him I'll and I blame myself. Determined to get him well coming home over my lunches and will continue calcium through the night. Will back off as directed when he learns to love Henry's.

[Mel1959]

Yes, veggies and fruits can, and should, be given with Henry’s blocks. Just offer the blocks first when he’s most hungry. If you find he stops eating the blocks in favor of the veggies or fruits you may have to hold back on them till he’s eating the Henry’s well.

I’m glad to hear you think he’s doing better. I can’t remember if I mentioned this or not, but MBD can be painful and sometimes they like to sleep on a heating pad set on low. If you have a way to add one to his enclosure where he can’t get access to the cord, you might try him with that.

If he’s been on the meloxidyl for a week I’d stop giving it and see how he does. You can always start it again if he seems really uncomfortable.

Have you looked in the nutrition section for homemade boo ball recipes? I make them for my yard squirrels and they seem to prefer them over Henry’s blocks. If you want the recipe I use let me know and I’ll send it to you.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

[QUOTE=SamtheSquirrel2018;1355773]

Update!!!!! I think he's doing better!!!! Appetite has increased and he even took 3 whole bites of Henry's with almond butter I almost cried! Ate avocado, grape and watermelon....won't touch the kale never has but I try! And ...I think I may have seen just a smidge of movement in his back legs ..maybe. He had a warm bath, dried carefully and thoroughly and is tucked in warm and snug. I've dropped to the 500mg dose giving little bits every 5-6 hours. I kissed him about 10000 times today.

Question:. Should I continue the meloxidyl? Been in it1 week.

Thank you for your kind words about my squirrel mom status. It's gutted me seeing him I'll and I blame myself. Determined to get him well coming home over my lunches and will continue calcium through the night. Will back off as directed when he learns to love Henry's.

Great news!

I agree with Mel's recommending that the Meloxidyl be discontinued and that would be my recommendation, too. The heating pad also seems like a wonderful idea. I would like to suggest that the heating be situated so that it does not cover the entire floor of Corn Pop's home so he can decide if he wants to be on it or lie down beside it or even be away from it.

You are doing great with the Calcium! Just a comment about Henry's and about Boo Balls. I have to admit that I rarely give Squirrels Henry's Blocks because they are expensive and cannot be free-fed BUT at this stage in Corn Pops presumed condition of MBD, the Henry's Blocks can be viewed as medication more than just a food. CP has decreased appetite although apparently improving and probably some dental issues that can adversely impact his enthusiasm for eating. Henry's is truly an all-inclusive diet in only 10 Grams (give or take a little)! For most, let's say "normal" Squirrel, 10 Grams of food per day is not going to sit very well with the Squirrel because that relatively small amount will do very little to satisfy hunger. Providing extra but healthy foods serve to to help with satiety (no longer being hungry) but they are not absolutely necessary because Henry's comprises a full diet.

For CP, who while his appetite appears to be improving; he still does not have a normal appetite and it will be far better to preferentially utilize the "nutritionally concentrated" Henry's Blocks for his regular nutritional intake at this time and adjust downward, the additional calcium you are giving as his consumption of Henry's Blocks improves. Since the goal for Calcium dosing with MBD is to temporarily increase total daily Calcium intake, this can correctly be viewed at supplying not just Maintenance Calcium (the Calcium that should be given each day even if perfectly healthy which for the "average Squirrel will be around 225-250mg) but now Treatment Calcium which is extra Calcium that is being utilized by Corn Pop's body to replenish the total Calcium stores in the bones along with helping to resolve the other issues associated with MBD.

My suggestion to help facilitate CP getting his Maintenance Calcium plus his Treatment Calcium plus his needed daily nutrition; and in light of his still depressed appetite; would be to encourage you to view both the Henry's Blocks and the Calcium carbonate supplements as Medicines! It will definitely not hurt to supplement with healthy vegetables but please ensure that Corn Pop eats his Henry's Blocks and takes his supplemental Calcium. If he is not doing so and is favoring the vegetables, the vegetables (and anything else besides the Henry's and the Calcium laced Almond Butter) should be immediately held pending CP's resumption of his ingesting his daily nutrition (the Henry's Blocks) plus his additional Treatment dosings of Calcium carbonate!

I am definitely a fan of homemade Blocks and Boo Balls and some of the advantages of these as Mel has stated is that you can flavor them as desired and also adjust their baseline consistency (make them soft or hard or in between as preferred by your Squirrel). One of the potential problems with CP using them is based upon his still depressed appetite and that most of the Homemade Block recipes (mine included) produce Blocks that are made to permit free-feeding (the Squirrels may eat as much as they want) so the amount of Calcium and of course all other minerals, vitamins and nutrients are less concentrated than in Henry's Blocks. Henry's should never be free-fed and for the "average" Squirrel; eating two Henry's Blocks is all that is necessary to ensure a full daily nutritional intake! Three blocks should be thought of as the maximum if the Henry's Blocks a being given to a relatively large Squirrel. Also, it seems that most healthy active Squirrels tend to be "messy" eaters and if there seems to be a significant amount of waste, extra Henry's should be permitted to make up for this.

I'm glad to see improvement in Corn Pop! Thanks for your care and love of this little Squirrel!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

[QUOTE=Squirrel Girl Des Moines;1355791]

Great news!

I agree with Mel's recommending that the Meloxidyl be discontinued and that would be my recommendation, too. The heating pad also seems like a wonderful idea. I would like to suggest that the heating be situated so that it does not cover the entire floor of Corn Pop's home so he can decide if he wants to be on it or lie down beside it or even be away from it.

You are doing great with the Calcium! Just a comment about Henry's and about Boo Balls. I have to admit that I rarely give Squirrels Henry's Blocks because they are expensive and cannot be free-fed BUT at this stage in Corn Pops presumed condition of MBD, the Henry's Blocks can be viewed as medication more than just a food. CP has decreased appetite although apparently improving and probably some dental issues that can adversely impact his enthusiasm for eating. Henry's is truly an all-inclusive diet in only 10 Grams (give or take a little)! For most, let's say "normal" Squirrel, 10 Grams of food per day is not going to sit very well with the Squirrel because that relatively small amount will do very little to satisfy hunger. Providing extra but healthy foods serve to to help with satiety (no longer being hungry) but they are not absolutely necessary because Henry's comprises a full diet.

For CP, who while his appetite appears to be improving; he still does not have a normal appetite and it will be far better to preferentially utilize the "nutritionally concentrated" Henry's Blocks for his regular nutritional intake at this time and adjust downward, the additional calcium you are giving as his consumption of Henry's Blocks improves. Since the goal for Calcium dosing with MBD is to temporarily increase total daily Calcium intake, this can correctly be viewed at supplying not just Maintenance Calcium (the Calcium that should be given each day even if perfectly healthy which for the "average Squirrel will be around 225-250mg) but now Treatment Calcium which is extra Calcium that is being utilized by Corn Pop's body to replenish the total Calcium stores in the bones along with helping to resolve the other issues associated with MBD.

My suggestion to help facilitate CP getting his Maintenance Calcium plus his Treatment Calcium plus his needed daily nutrition; and in light of his still depressed appetite; would be to encourage you to view both the Henry's Blocks and the Calcium carbonate supplements as Medicines! It will definitely not hurt to supplement with healthy vegetables but please ensure that Corn Pop eats his Henry's Blocks and takes his supplemental Calcium. If he is not doing so and is favoring the vegetables, the vegetables (and anything else besides the Henry's and the Calcium laced Almond Butter) should be immediately held pending CP's resumption of his ingesting his daily nutrition (the Henry's Blocks) plus his additional Treatment dosings of Calcium carbonate!

I am definitely a fan of homemade Blocks and Boo Balls and some of the advantages of these as Mel has stated is that you can flavor them as desired and also adjust their baseline consistency (make them soft or hard or in between as preferred by your Squirrel). One of the potential problems with CP using them is based upon his still depressed appetite and that most of the Homemade Block recipes (mine included) produce Blocks that are made to permit free-feeding (the Squirrels may eat as much as they want) so the amount of Calcium and of course all other minerals, vitamins and nutrients are less concentrated than in Henry's Blocks. Henry's should never be free-fed and for the "average" Squirrel; eating two Henry's Blocks is all that is necessary to ensure a full daily nutritional intake! Three blocks should be thought of as the maximum if the Henry's Blocks a being given to a relatively large Squirrel. Also, it seems that most healthy active Squirrels tend to be "messy" eaters and if there seems to be a significant amount of waste, extra Henry's should be permitted to make up for this.

I'm glad to see improvement in Corn Pop! Thanks for your care and love of this little Squirrel!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

So happy today he has eaten almost 2 Henry's blocks with almond butter! I am so relieved he has eaten these! I have a low intensity heating element I am adding tonight as recommend. Very low heat with a wire wrapped cord for safety. It is smaller so he'll have plenty of maneuvering room on or around! He is still sleeping a lot...most if the time but....I think I saw that hind leg movement again. Just a bit but gives me hope! Also ate avocado and blueberry. I think he has a long way to go but I see progress and I am dedicated to fixing this. And he's about the sweetest thing in my life. ❤️🐿️. At a later date I will try the homemade food but for now the Henry's us working!!!!

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

[QUOTE=SamtheSquirrel2018;1355801]

So happy today he has eaten almost 2 Henry's blocks with almond butter! I am so relieved he has eaten these! I have a low intensity heating element I am adding tonight as recommend. Very low heat with a wire wrapped cord for safety. It is smaller so he'll have plenty of maneuvering room on or around! He is still sleeping a lot...most if the time but....I think I saw that hind leg movement again. Just a bit but gives me hope! Also ate avocado and blueberry. I think he has a long way to go but I see progress and I am dedicated to fixing this. And he's about the sweetest thing in my life. ❤️🐿️. At a later date I will try the homemade food but for now the Henry's us working!!!!

This is a wonderful update to see! I too, am very happy that Corn Pop has eaten almost 2 whole Almond Buttered Henry's Blocks! Am I correct in assuming that you are still providing the extra Treatment Calcium (mixed in Almond Butter) as well as giving Corn Pop the Henry's Blocks? Once you know for certain that CP is consistently consuming two Henry's Block daily, you can decrease his Treatment Calcium to 250mg of Elemental Calcium daily and give it in fairly evenly divided doses 4 or 5 times per day arranged to help facilitate you getting 6 hours of well needed sleep at night! Has his poop become normal in appearance? Please keep us informed as to CP's status!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

[QUOTE=Squirrel Girl Des Moines;1355823]

This is a wonderful update to see! I too, am very happy that Corn Pop has eaten almost 2 whole Almond Buttered Henry's Blocks! Am I correct in assuming that you are still providing the extra Treatment Calcium (mixed in Almond Butter) as well as giving Corn Pop the Henry's Blocks? Once you know for certain that CP is consistently consuming two Henry's Block daily, you can decrease his Treatment Calcium to 250mg of Elemental Calcium daily and give it in fairly evenly divided doses 4 or 5 times per day arranged to help facilitate you getting 6 hours of well needed sleep at night! Has his poop become normal in appearance? Please keep us informed as to CP's status!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Thank you for the reply! Yes still continuing emergency calcium treatment. Giving orally in syringe mixed with a bit of warm water, fresh squeezed watermelon juice and a tiny bit of fresh squeezed grape juice. He like those two fruits. His poops are getting darker but still really white. So far today he's taken about 1.75 blocks and 250 in liquid supplement measured calcium plan on giving him additional liquid in about 5 hours. He didn't enjoy the last dose took it very reluctantly. I'm even pretending to drink it thinking he'll want it more! I've been able to dose him every 5-6 hours with a total intake of 500mg total 100 at a time. Discontinued Meloxidyl today. Concerned about his poop color thoughts?

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

[QUOTE=SamtheSquirrel2018;1355824]

Thank you for the reply! Yes still continuing emergency calcium treatment. Giving orally in syringe mixed with a bit of warm water, fresh squeezed watermelon juice and a tiny bit of fresh squeezed grape juice. He like those two fruits. His poops are getting darker but still really white. So far today he's taken about 1.75 blocks and 250 in liquid supplement measured calcium plan on giving him additional liquid in about 5 hours. He didn't enjoy the last dose took it very reluctantly. I'm even pretending to drink it thinking he'll want it more! I've been able to dose him every 5-6 hours with a total intake of 500mg total 100 at a time. Discontinued Meloxidyl today. Concerned about his poop color thoughts?

Most likely the light colored poop is from the original relatively high dose of Calcium. I expect this will resolve shortly with controlled dosing of Corn Pop's Calcium. If this continues without significant improvement or worsens, it will be imperative to adjust down the Treatment dose somewhat and maybe increase the number of dosings which wikll decrease the amount Calcium contained in each dose.

If you stay at the 500mg of supplemental Calcium as was recommended and now with CP eating nearly 2 Henry's Blocks; he may actually be getting a little "extra" extra Calcium as 2 Henry's blocks contain reportedly around 275mg (let's say 250mg just to simplify math and assuming this to be a accurate average Calcium content in 2 blocks as the size of the blocks do vary) of Elemental Calcium. This would mean that having the goal of Corn Pop eating 500mg of Total Elemental Calcium per day (this would be Maintenance Calcium plus Treatment Calcium), with him having eaten nearly 2 Blocks, he probably got around 200mg (or a little more) of Elemental Calcium from his Blocks alone.

It would not be unreasonable to adjust the supplemental Treatment Calcium dosing based upon how much of the Henry's blocks he is eating. This requires a little math and some estimating but giving one Henry's Block first thing in the morning will help. If he eats that, you know he had had a over 100mg (using pure math, it would be 137mg by dividing the stated 275mg contained in 2 blocks by 2, but let's say just 125mg) of Elemental Calcium. Your total supplemental Calcium dose would then be decreased by around 125 mg by him having eaten that one block. If he eats another full block, the daily supplemental Calcium would be another 125mg less. It is more of a bother to do it this way but it probably would be best in the transition because while we want CP to have the needed extra Calcium, we don't want to give excessive Calcium. Once CP's intake of Henmry's Blocks stabilizes (hopefully around 2 blocks per day), daily juggling of the supplemental Calcium will not be needed and you can just give the little Squirrel 250mg of Supplemental Elemental Calcium in divided doses along with his around 250mg of Calcium he got through the Henry's Blocks.

I would also suggest that if there is any question; err on giving a little extra Elemental Calcium rather than giving a little less.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi Squirrel Girl Des Moines:
How is Corn Pop doing?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Squirrel Girl Des Moines]

Hi Squirrel Girl Des Moines:
How is Corn Pop doing?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel


Hello! I have finally had a minute to breathe to update on dear Corn Pop! He is still with us!

Very pleased to say my boy is doing much better! He still has not regained mobility but, I am hopeful. We have Henry's Healthy Blocks success! I continue to grind then with just enough almond butter to form sweet little nummy balls. He is eating 2-3 per day he does think it's fun to flick around the bits he doesn't want which I of course collect out of my hair and roll back into the little sweet balls. By the end of the day I can hear him saying, "Mom, those are the bits left over from this morning and there's not nearly enough almond butter in them" I ask him nicely to eat them as they are good for him and he begrudgingly flicks the bits around again and eats some. He is particularly fond of my avocado picking skills and is enjoying a goodly amount. (His little teeth marks are adorbs in the cado!) Red grapes are his favorites (no skin of course) he likes them firm and not mushy. (No, he's not picky at all :) Fresh coconut was a hit today, yesterday yams. He has told me to completely stop buying kale. "Mom, I've never eaten it and never will so put that stuff away!" I don't blame him. I have a lovely array of "let's see if he'll eat these veggies" in my fridge. We have done this for four years and inevitably they end up in the bin. Today's rejection...cauliflower. "No way Mom, absolutely not." The eggplant was a huge dud, thought I had a success with that one when he took about 3 bites.....and then.....nope. So if anyone needs kale, cauliflower or eggplant it's yours. I have continued to give him supplemental elemental calcium - INCLUDING the Henry's he's getting 500mg. a day. The calcium is mixed with grape, watermelon and blackberry juice (fresh from the fruit as always) a smidge of almond butter and warm water. I realized this week I am basically making little teeny tiny smoothies.....for my squirrel. This brought me great joy as I can now tell my friends I cook :) Big news so I'll put it in caps, I THINK I AM SEEING SOME MOVEMENT IN HIS HIND LEGS. It is sporadic but I think it's there. An occasional stretch, the drying after baths (which I don't think he is at all amused by) seems to produce some little kicks. Occasionally I see a bit of readjustment of his back end when he's nesting. This all makes me very hopeful.

Observations:
He will not eat food left in his enclosure. Apparently he prefers hand feeding (I would too) my guess he can't get the right angle.
He is extremely cuddly, assuming he feels very vulnerable. We keep it very quiet, no sudden movement.
His poops are good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never thought I'd celebrate that but, they are lovely! Normal color, normal size!
Urine looks good - I keep him clean and dry which, is a challenge. We wash a lot of fleece!
He is not grooming as he used to balance and leverage are a challenge. As a result we have grooming sessions. I do my best to make my hand seem like a little squirrel mouth and groom him after eating. It's weird but true.
He seems to really enjoy his massages. (I would too!) He basically gets an hour full body massage daily with focus on the hind quarters including his little toeseses. We do gentle exercises which he tolerates nicely.
I offer him water constantly he doesn't take too much assuming he gets the hydration from veg, fruit and smoothies. (note: he's never gotten the hang of the hamster water bottle idea I've bought several he's a bowl drinker.) Right now he can't get leverage on his own one day about a week ago he face planted in the tiny bowl of water which terrified me so......I'm offering water several times a day in a syringe like the smoothies. Sometimes he takes it sometimes he doesn't.

Routine:
12:30am supplemental calcium smoothie about 75mg.
7am breakfast which he loves, cuddles, prayers usually accompanied with crying because I am just hoping he recovers fully. (this is true....lots of tears...I love him dearly.)
12:30pm come home from work over lunch (wonder how I ever ended up doing what I do for work and wish I could make a living caring for squirrels) He gets his lunch. Cuddles, prayers, tears and tuck in. Wraps his hannies around mine and makes me feel guilty for leaving. The sweetest thing ever.
5pm dinner, cuddles, prayers, crying.
7pm final evaluation on calcium intake supplement if needed with fresh smoothie.

and......
we start all over! Which doesn't bother me a bit.

Questions:
I've had him on 500mg of calcium for about 2 weeks. Should I drop it down now that he's eating Henry's? Discontinue smoothies?
Does ANYONE know.....after 4 weeks do you think recovery in the hind quarters is still a possibility? Please say yes!
He's 4, my vet called him geriatric, but in captivity isn't the life expectancy up to 12?
If anyone has any other suggestions input or advice I am all ears. I'm getting this squirrel up and going somehow!

to finish:
THANK YOU YOU SAVED MY BOY! From his changed demeanor much more lively, bright eyed, coat looks better and is really filling out, I know it was MBD, thanks to you. 500.00 in vet bills and I didn't get that diagnosis. They're wonderful but just didn't know. I thought it was spinal and due to scoliosis and age. (I still feel guilty - thought I was being a good Mom with his diet and I blew it.) Thank you again and please keep those suggestions coming!

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hello! I have finally had a minute to breathe to update on dear Corn Pop! He is still with us!

Very pleased to say my boy is doing much better! He still has not regained mobility but, I am hopeful. We have Henry's Healthy Blocks success! I continue to grind then with just enough almond butter to form sweet little nummy balls. He is eating 2-3 per day he does think it's fun to flick around the bits he doesn't want which I of course collect out of my hair and roll back into the little sweet balls. By the end of the day I can hear him saying, "Mom, those are the bits left over from this morning and there's not nearly enough almond butter in them" I ask him nicely to eat them as they are good for him and he begrudgingly flicks the bits around again and eats some. He is particularly fond of my avocado picking skills and is enjoying a goodly amount. (His little teeth marks are adorbs in the cado!) Red grapes are his favorites (no skin of course) he likes them firm and not mushy. (No, he's not picky at all :) Fresh coconut was a hit today, yesterday yams. He has told me to completely stop buying kale. "Mom, I've never eaten it and never will so put that stuff away!" I don't blame him. I have a lovely array of "let's see if he'll eat these veggies" in my fridge. We have done this for four years and inevitably they end up in the bin. Today's rejection...cauliflower. "No way Mom, absolutely not." The eggplant was a huge dud, thought I had a success with that one when he took about 3 bites.....and then.....nope. So if anyone needs kale, cauliflower or eggplant it's yours. I have continued to give him supplemental elemental calcium - INCLUDING the Henry's he's getting 500mg. a day. The calcium is mixed with grape, watermelon and blackberry juice (fresh from the fruit as always) a smidge of almond butter and warm water. I realized this week I am basically making little teeny tiny smoothies.....for my squirrel. This brought me great joy as I can now tell my friends I cook :) Big news so I'll put it in caps, I THINK I AM SEEING SOME MOVEMENT IN HIS HIND LEGS. It is sporadic but I think it's there. An occasional stretch, the drying after baths (which I don't think he is at all amused by) seems to produce some little kicks. Occasionally I see a bit of readjustment of his back end when he's nesting. This all makes me very hopeful.

Observations:
He will not eat food left in his enclosure. Apparently he prefers hand feeding (I would too) my guess he can't get the right angle.
He is extremely cuddly, assuming he feels very vulnerable. We keep it very quiet, no sudden movement.
His poops are good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never thought I'd celebrate that but, they are lovely! Normal color, normal size!
Urine looks good - I keep him clean and dry which, is a challenge. We wash a lot of fleece!
He is not grooming as he used to balance and leverage are a challenge. As a result we have grooming sessions. I do my best to make my hand seem like a little squirrel mouth and groom him after eating. It's weird but true.
He seems to really enjoy his massages. (I would too!) He basically gets an hour full body massage daily with focus on the hind quarters including his little toeseses. We do gentle exercises which he tolerates nicely.
I offer him water constantly he doesn't take too much assuming he gets the hydration from veg, fruit and smoothies. (note: he's never gotten the hang of the hamster water bottle idea I've bought several he's a bowl drinker.) Right now he can't get leverage on his own one day about a week ago he face planted in the tiny bowl of water which terrified me so......I'm offering water several times a day in a syringe like the smoothies. Sometimes he takes it sometimes he doesn't.

Routine:
12:30am supplemental calcium smoothie about 75mg.
7am breakfast which he loves, cuddles, prayers usually accompanied with crying because I am just hoping he recovers fully. (this is true....lots of tears...I love him dearly.)
12:30pm come home from work over lunch (wonder how I ever ended up doing what I do for work and wish I could make a living caring for squirrels) He gets his lunch. Cuddles, prayers, tears and tuck in. Wraps his hannies around mine and makes me feel guilty for leaving. The sweetest thing ever.
5pm dinner, cuddles, prayers, crying.
7pm final evaluation on calcium intake supplement if needed with fresh smoothie.

and......
we start all over! Which doesn't bother me a bit.

Questions:
I've had him on 500mg of calcium for about 2 weeks. Should I drop it down now that he's eating Henry's? Discontinue smoothies?
Does ANYONE know.....after 4 weeks do you think recovery in the hind quarters is still a possibility? Please say yes!
He's 4, my vet called him geriatric, but in captivity isn't the life expectancy up to 12?
If anyone has any other suggestions input or advice I am all ears. I'm getting this squirrel up and going somehow!

to finish:
THANK YOU YOU SAVED MY BOY! From his changed demeanor much more lively, bright eyed, coat looks better and is really filling out, I know it was MBD, thanks to you. 500.00 in vet bills and I didn't get that diagnosis. They're wonderful but just didn't know. I thought it was spinal and due to scoliosis and age. (I still feel guilty - thought I was being a good Mom with his diet and I blew it.) Thank you again and please keep those suggestions coming!

Thanks so much for this wonderful, and very personal update! I'm glad that Corn Pop talks with you and that you have such great and loving relationship! You are both very fortunate! You are doing a great job with CP, Squirrel Girl DM!

I have tried to provide some answers to your questions but these are my opinions alone. There is usually room for variation and there are differences in opinion. My "answers" certainly may not be generally agreed upon and I just wanted state this up front:
Questions:
1) I've had him on 500mg of calcium for about 2 weeks. Should I drop it down now that he's eating Henry's? Discontinue smoothies?

It would be fine to decrease his supplemental Elemental Calcium by about 50mg and in 2-3 more weeks, lower it by the same amount. This decrease of 50mg of supplemental Calcium can continue every 2-3 weeks
(but see below because this is conditional). Please reassess Corn Pop's diet regularly to ensure he is not getting extra snacks and especially high phosphorus foods that we all are tempted to give our Squirrels because
they like these so much! MBD does NOT just develop from too little Calcium, it can also develop from excessive phosphorus even if the Calcium intake would ordinarily be optimal. In light of this, resolution of MBD
requires not just maintenance Calcium plus Treatment Calcium but also requires close attention to diet to ensure that foods with relatively high phosphorus content have not sneaked into the diet (so to speak)! If CP's
appetite continues to be good and he is consuming the equivalent of 2 full Henry's Blocks (let' say 10 Grams of Henry's Block)daily, you can continue to decrease the supplemental Calcium by 50mg every 2-3 weeks.
Henry's suggests decreasing Treatment Calcium by 50mg every 2 weeks and when the Squirrel has had the Treatment Calcium decreased to where it is only 50mg, this should be continued for 2 months and then
stopped. That is certainly ok but in my limited experience, I have elected to "tweak" this a bit and leave a little wiggle room and that is why I said to decrease Treatment Calcium by 50mg every 2-3 weeks and I
stopped decreasing Treatment Calcium in the three cases of MBD I have managed when the decrease reached the point where 100mg was being given as Treatment Calcium. I kept the Squirrels at this "final" 100mg
of Treatment Calcium for 2 months and then decreased by another 50mg for one additional month and then stopped Treatment Calcium all together. One of the risks I was a "little" obsessive about trying to minimize
was a possible recurrence of signs of MBD. A relapse of signs of MBD is something that hopefully should be avoided with adequate treatment! You can do it how you see it of course and following Henry's protocol
exactly (without any "tweaking") is just fine and has precedent.

2) Does ANYONE know.....after 4 weeks do you think recovery in the hind quarters is still a possibility? Please say yes!

Maybe! Squirrels are very resilient and they have a remarkable ability to surprise us with their improvements and recoveries. My concern is that while the Vet assumed the primary problem was a spinal issue rather
than MBD; some of the relatively common sequelae (resultant problems) from MBD include fractures and injury to the spine with subsequent nerve involvement. You are seeing some gradual improvements this is
encouraging. I believe it is just too early to say that further no improvement can occur. I am still optimistic in that complete recovery may still result; but if not, that there is more recovery come! I certainly
hope for increased functionality of CP's hind quarters!

3) He's 4, my vet called him geriatric, but in captivity isn't the life expectancy up to 12?

Corn Pop is NOT "geriatric!" He's still young. In the wild, there are probably no "geriatric" Squirrels (sad to think this way!)! Captive Squirrel have lived considerably longer than 12 years!

4) If anyone has any other suggestions input or advice I am all ears. I'm getting this squirrel up and going somehow!

I hope others will make comments and suggestions for you and little Corn Pop. Please continue with the updates, Squirrel Girl Des Moines!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CritterMom]

Regarding his face plant into the water dish - you can fix that. Get yourself a heavy ceramic dish - wide but not real deep. Petco sells them for a couple bucks in the pocket pet supplies area - I actually use ceramic creme broulee dishes for this. Fill the dish with either clean, shiny pebbles or as I do, with glass marbles (craft stores sell this stuff). Then fill with water until the water is just above the marbles. They can easily drink, if the level drops, they can push the marbles aside, but they won't accidently shove their snoot deep in the water because the marbles will stop them.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Any chance on getting a Corn Pop Update?!?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel