mouth hurting in squirrel

[ashleyhelene]

herscules my squirrel is 4 years old. Couple days ago when I woke him up for breakfast he had one eye with white milky stuff in it. I pulled my book out and it said he was in pain to look at his mouth so I did. His teeth are great no issue there but I got I tooth pick to open his mouth more so I could look in back of mouth and on the same side his eye had stuff coming out he has small puss pocket and it red back of mouth . He is still eating a little. I have baytril and amoxicillin 875mg, meloxicam, Tramdol 50mg. I just need to know what to give him and how much

[Charley Chuckles]

Sorry to hear😕

As far as medicating they will need a weight on Herscules to dose him👍

[ashleyhelene]

herscules my squirrel is 4 years old. Couple days ago when I woke him up for breakfast he had one eye with white milky stuff in it. I pulled my book out and it said he was in pain to look at his mouth so I did. His teeth are great no issue there but I got I tooth pick to open his mouth more so I could look in back of mouth and on the same side his eye had stuff coming out he has small puss pocket and it red back of mouth . He is still eating a little. I have baytril and amoxicillin 875mg, meloxicam, Tramdol 50mg. I just need to know what to give him and how much





His weight is 555 grams. To me it does look like infection in mouth. I tired to get a picture this morning but he is not in the greatest mood right now

[Charley Chuckles]

I know others will be here with advice I'm just bumping your thread 👍

[Spanky]

Augmentin dosing sent via PM. Let us know if there are any questions... I have a long drive today so it may be hours between my checking in FWIW.

[ashleyhelene]

thank you so much If I have any problems I email back again thank you

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

herscules my squirrel is 4 years old. Couple days ago when I woke him up for breakfast he had one eye with white milky stuff in it. I pulled my book out and it said he was in pain to look at his mouth so I did. His teeth are great no issue there but I got I tooth pick to open his mouth more so I could look in back of mouth and on the same side his eye had stuff coming out he has small puss pocket and it red back of mouth . He is still eating a little. I have baytril and amoxicillin 875mg, meloxicam, Tramdol 50mg. I just need to know what to give him and how much

Hi AshleyHelene and hello Hercules:
I'm sorry about Herc's apparent "pus Pocket!" A pus pocket in medical terminology is called an abscess. Abscesses can have a number of causes but I suspect from what you are describing, that your Squirrel's abscess is related to some sort of dental issue(s) which then led to his developing an infection then having the pus (pus is made up of white blood cells, bacteria, and cellular debris for the most part) form within the tissues which later began draining out when when the abscess opened up which they often do on their own. Although Herc's teeth appear "great," he seems to me to have likely developed an abscess from periodontal disease or an injury or decay of the teeth. Periodontal disease is a problem in the gums, the layer of specialized material that surrounds the tooth root and helps anchor the tooth in the "socket" or within the bone itself (or any or all of these).

One possibility for a cause of what is going on is an odontoma which is is relatively common in Squirrels and is a NON-cancerous tumor that is made up of normal dental tissues that are disorganized, grow and often are associated with infection, pain, and problems with breathing especially when they involve the upper incisors. If what is going on with Hercules is from his having an odontoma, antibiotics will not cure the odontoma itself but may significantly "tone down" the infection or hopefully cure it. Surgery is used to take care of the odontoma if that is what is at the root of this problem (pun intended). My recommendation is for Hercules to be seen by an experienced Veterinarian and have and examination and x-ray films to help define whether or not there is an associated odontoma. One of the experts in Squirrel Medicine and dental issues including odontomas is Dr. Alicia Emerson at the Ravenwood Veterinary Clinic in Port Orange, FL ( https://ravenwoodvet.net ) (Phone: (386) 788-1550). There are accounts on TSB from many members who have had their Squirrels evaluated and treated by Dr. Emerson. She may be able to to have a consultation with you over the phone today although it would be ideal to have an x-ray study done first.

An infection, especially one involving the head is potentially very serious and I would suggest doing what you are apparently intending to do and that is start antibiotics ASAP. I have a particular concern here and that is that while Spanky has provided dosing instructions for "Augmentin" which is a combination antibiotic consisting of both Amoxicillin and Clavulanate (a Veterinary brand is Clavamox and a human medicine brand is Augmentin). While Augmentin contains amoxicillin, it is NOT the same as amoxicillin! Augmentin would be a very good choice of antibiotic to start with and has more bacterial coverage than plain amoxicillin! Both can be used for "dental" infections but if there is a choice between plain Amoxicillin & Augmentin; I would personally opt for the Augmentin. The issue in question is that I see that you reported having only Amoxicillin (not Augmentin or amoxicillin-clavulanate) and Baytril as available antibiotics. Please clarify this because, again, if you only have amoxicillin and the dosing that you were provided was for for Augmentin; there may be some differences. It may be that Spanky made a typo and wrote Augmentin on his post but actually PM'd dosing with amoxicillin.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[ashleyhelene]

I have amoxicillin. I've been reading up on the odontoma. And I've also been told about the vet in Florida. He don't have stuffy/running nose no sinus problems at all. His Front teeth look really good not to long or to short. Is the only way to tell if they have odontoma is with X-ray. And how do you travel with a squirrel without them panicking

[Spanky]

And how do you travel with a squirrel without them panicking

Dark, warm and quiet. Cover the travel cage (it should be all metal) with a blanket. Don't play the music loud or roll down the windows and such.

If there is anyway you could find a vet closer and willing to do an x-ray you can always send that to Dr E for a consult... maybe, hopefully, the longer trip will be unnecessary.

[CritterMom]

I have amoxicillin. I've been reading up on the odontoma. And I've also been told about the vet in Florida. He don't have stuffy/running nose no sinus problems at all. His Front teeth look really good not to long or to short. Is the only way to tell if they have odontoma is with X-ray. And how do you travel with a squirrel without them panicking

OK, I can see why Spanky went with augmentin here. 875mg amoxicillin ONLY isn't that common. I know we keep asking but they are different drugs with different dosing.

Do you have 875mg amoxicillin or do you have 875mg amoxicillin clavulanate. It will make a difference.

Also, squirrels have a mouth full of molars like most mammals do and they are more than capable of either developing decay or even breaking one and starting it to decay and die because of that. Like odontoma, the only way to get RID of a problem with a bad molar is to get RID of the tooth. Antibiotics will help knock down the infection but it will reappear again and again until the source - the tooth - is gone. The good news is that while removing the top and bottom incisors from a gnawing rodent like a squirrel is a VERY specialized procedure, molars are molars and a vet capable of properly anesthetizing and doing this to a dog or rabbit will be able to do a squirrel.

An x-ray is the only way to get an answer. If the vet has to sedate for the x-ray it would be great if they could also do an extraction immediately instead of doing a second aesthesia.

[ashleyhelene]

Dark, warm and quiet. Cover the travel cage (it should be all metal) with a blanket. Don't play the music loud or roll down the windows and such.

If there is anyway you could find a vet closer and willing to do an x-ray you can always send that to Dr E for a consult... maybe, hopefully, the longer trip will be unnecessary.



thank you

[Spanky]

Do you have 875mg amoxicillin or do you have 875mg amoxicillin clavulanate. It will make a difference.

We got this straightened out, and it is Amoxicillin 875mg and dosing provided! :thumbsup

[Mel1959]

I see you’re located in Mississippi. Is that correct? We have a member who is a vet in MS and may be able to help with an X-ray if you can get to her. Is this something you’re willing to do?

As crazy as it seems, it has been my experience that squirrels travel far better than most people would think. Covering the cage is imperative and does wonders. I have travelled with wild squirrels with no issues.

Also, I recently had a squirrel with an abscess form outwardly on her jaw as the result of decayed molars. Even after the vet removed the ones that were affected the infection returned which required more teeth to be removed. She is now fully recovered. It’s important that the infected teeth be removed and the infection eliminated. If the infection enters the bone it is much harder to eliminate. You also have to be aware of the close proximity this is to the brain and get it under control.

[ashleyhelene]

I see you’re located in Mississippi. Is that correct? We have a member who is a vet in MS and may be able to help with an X-ray if you can get to her. Is this something you’re willing to do?

As crazy as it seems, it has been my experience that squirrels travel far better than most people would think. Covering the cage is imperative and does wonders. I have travelled with wild squirrels with no issues.

Also, I recently had a squirrel with an abscess form outwardly on her jaw as the result of decayed molars. Even after the vet removed the ones that were affected the infection returned which required more teeth to be removed. She is now fully recovered. It’s important that the infected teeth be removed and the infection eliminated. If the infection enters the bone it is much harder to eliminate. You also have to be aware of the close proximity this is to the brain and get it under control.




Yes I located in Mississippi. I have a wildlife rehabber coming to my house this weekend to look at him. He still not eating much, white milky stuff coming out 1 eye. I have called around to vets here and they tell me that they can't help me. I have found 1 vet thankfully to help but she said her Xray machine might not take good enough pictures. I would like to get his mouth xray and send them to the doctor in Florida so if he does need further help I can get it done. He is 5 years old and the vet I been talking to said he very well could have odontoma. He is drinking water great. eating soft stuff and has quit eating his nuts in a shell completely.

[Mel1959]

If you send me your location in MS and contact information in a private message I will pass it on to the member who’s a vet in MS. Private messages are accessed from the “notifications” tab at the top of the screen.

[ashleyhelene]

Update : so the rehabber came last weekend and looked at Hercules mouth for me. He has broken off his top 2 incisors at gums. It does appear they will grow back she says. She clipped in bottom 2 incisors a little. His gums on the top are very swollen. He was on antibiotics for 7 days. Does not look like he has an infection. I have taken all hard things away and only given soft food for right now. My question is am I doing everything right? If not let me know

[Snicker Bar]

We saw Hercules today and did the best we could with our general x ray equipment. I will E mail these to Dr. Emerson, so hopefully she can advise more .

We examined his mouth under anesthesia, and as best I could tell, it looks like his upper incisors are coming back in, but not evenly(?)

324202

We trimmed the bottom teeth.

Here is a view from the side;
324203

I am not qualified to say; but could that be an early Odontoma ? This view is with the left side of his face “up”:
324205

This is a lateral with the right side of his face “up”:
324206

I wish I could have had an opportunity to talk to Dr. Emerson, to know what specific views/positions she would have preferred for him to be, but we just did best could .

Other than the need to trim, I could not see any external signs of infection. The “swelling” on the gums she is referring to is this:

324208

It’s the flesh, in between the upper incisors. It just feels like normal “gum” to me; not ulcerated . But I guess I haven’t studied my kids and their gum lines lately; so not sure if this is considered more pronounced? But it doesn’t look like an abscess; I can say that.

Hopefully others will chime in here, and Dr. E can take a look at x rays if she has time.

[Snicker Bar]

Bump

[Charley Chuckles]

Looks like you got awesome x-rays.
I've seen many x-rays of odatomas but I can't say one way or another hopefully Dr E will be able to take a look👍

[Snicker Bar]

Is it normal for an adult squirrel to just lose their top incisors?? With no known trauma?
Sorry if this question was already answered in the previous posts.

Also it looks like that right upper tooth is a little deviated , but maybe this can correct itself,

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I am not qualified to say; but could that be an early Odontoma ? This view is with the left side of his face “up”:
324205

This is a lateral with the right side of his face “up”:
324206

Hi Snicker Bar:
I'll offer my 1/2 cent's worth but again, I'm not a Vet, Dentist or a Radiologist My standard disclaimer!). If you look closely and compare Left Side Up view to the Right Side Up view; the area of concern as indicated by the arrow (I assume) on the Left Side Up view seems to show a small radiopaque "fullness" at the base of an upper incisor while the Right Side Up view does not seem to show this same density. Further comparison of these views suggest to me anyway, that this may be atifactual because even though the positions are opposite, the x-ray beam does not "know" that and it should pass through exactly the same regions at the same angle IF the positioning was perfectly at 90 degrees to the beam. If you also look at the film taken LSU (Left Side Up), you can see 2 mandibular angles which means that the x-ray beam was not at 90 degrees while in the image that is RSU. only 1 mandibular angle is seen and that indicates a true 90 passage of the beam and should probably be considered the more accurate image of the two. When the beam is not at 90 degrees, there is often widening and enlargement of normal densities because of uneven overlap. Again, on these two views alone, the are of concern appears to be artifact to me.

On the Dorso-ventral (?) view, I'm not exactly sure because it appears to show a small density on both sides but I can't effective magnify this very much to try to discern what this may be as the film unfortunately. becomes pixilated. Hopefully, Dr. E will be able to shed some definitive light on Hercules condition. Thanks for seeing this Squirrel, Snicker Bar and for posting your findings!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Snicker Bar]

I agree; it’s sort of vague, is it real? Artifact?

We didn’t have dental anything, sadly; when I was a student 😑 If it’s anything beyond simple cleanings, extractions , we refer to the specialist. But they (the school) would not accept this little one unless surrendered and then (? ☹️).

So sending these to someone we can trust .

I still just wonder about them losing top teeth like this,

What would happen, in the wild? Could they wear down the bottoms and survive while the top grow back?

Also I just wonder why he keeps having the white tears on that side…. She mentioned they were there again, yesterday Am. Just the left eye.

I’ll post as soon as I hear from Dr. E.

Hopefully she will be merciful with my novice , attempt at this dental problem lol. Just trying to learn as these critters and members here guide :)

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I agree; it’s sort of vague, is it real? Artifact?

We didn’t have dental anything, sadly; when I was a student �� If it’s anything beyond simple cleanings, extractions , we refer to the specialist. But they (the school) would not accept this little one unless surrendered and then (? ☹️).

So sending these to someone we can trust .

I still just wonder about them losing top teeth like this,

What would happen, in the wild? Could they wear down the bottoms and survive while the top grow back?

Also I just wonder why he keeps having the white tears on that side…. She mentioned they were there again, yesterday Am. Just the left eye.

I’ll post as soon as I hear from Dr. E.

Hopefully she will be merciful with my novice , attempt at this dental problem lol. Just trying to learn as these critters and members here guide :)

I still suspect purulent drainage as being the "white tears." IF this is really what is being seen, the source would seem most likely to be a dental associated abscess. I'd love to able to get a specimen of these "tears" and look at it under a microscope! A CT might reveal this but that is far easier for me to suggest than for it to happen. Even if the little Squirrel was still available and that study could be performed; back to back use of inhaled anesthesia for sedation may very well add unacceptable risk! Hopefully, you will hear from Dr. E soon! Thanks again, Snicker Bar for helping with Hercules!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Mel1959]

This is in regard to the question SnickerBar asked about top teeth gone missing and regrowing. This has happened to my released girl, May. Many years ago she broke off either one or both top teeth. Dr. E assumed it was from a fall. She did X-rays and determined that the tooth bed seemed intact and she felt they would regrow. I kept May in the release cage for several weeks. The teeth did regrow. If I remember correctly Dr. E did what you did and trimmed the lower incisors when she initially examined her. In May’s case the lowers did not over grow before the uppers came in.

[Snicker Bar]

Thanks for sharing Mel; I will tell her we need to make sure and monitor the length of the lower teeth as the tops try to catch up .

Just sent all the pics and history to Dr. E; hopefully will hear soon.

If she can get a pic of the “tears” maybe that could help. I’ve never had one of mine experience that but many tell about this when their squirrels are sick/in pain. Strange symptom ,

[Snicker Bar]

Just an update,
Dr. Emerson believes this is a small Odontoma. She said it’s better to work on them when they are small, because they destroy all the tissue around them.

She also mentioned that the lower incisors needed to be cut even shorter ; down to the gingiva. I think this is the post - trim pic:

324239

I hope this was good enough; I don’t think we could have gone any shorter without lots of blood :(

[Mel1959]

I think the lowers look good. I strongly suggest that the owner make the trip to Florida for the surgery. I know Dr. E doesn’t recommend surgery if there are no symptoms but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case if this squirrel is having white tears and problems eating. The surgery is far less invasive, and easier, when the odontomas are small.

[ashleyhelene]

Just an update on Hercules sense the teeth trimming on Wednesday he has had no more white tears. Today Sunday he doing a lot better, eating on his own, drinking and wanting to play. After the trimming on Wednesday he was having a really hard time eating so I hand fed him boo balls. Today thought he started eating his vegetables again. I want to thank Snicker she did a wonderful job on him with what she had.

[ashleyhelene]

324446324445 - Good eye


324447324448 eye in question


I decided to post to my old thread I had on here so it can be seen where it all started with Hercules and where we are now. The first 2 pictures that say good eye is the good eye. Now the other 2 pictures are the eye in question. One of the pictures is having the milky stuff coming out eye but also at times his eyelid looks red and a little swollen. It like at times it looks like he crying out that one eye cause it looks like water coming out. My question is what is wrong and what do I do. He is eating great, eat healthy blocks and boo balls everyday runs , jumps, and plays. Drinking water good to. Peeing and pooping correctly.

[Mel1959]

The white tears are a sign of pain. Does he still have white tears? Did Snicker Bar, or you, ever hear back from Dr. E. about the x-rays you sent her?

Does Hercules have a new problem, or are you posting in this thread so others can follow the whole story?

[ashleyhelene]

Doctor E said that she believes he has a small Odontoma,. I know the white tears mean pain, but he eating great, playing with his toys. Those white tears only come out that one eye the eye that looks like the top eyelid I'd read and swollen at times. I'm not sure why he having the white tear the white tears are not all the time. It maybe once or twice a week. He don't seem to be in any pain. I'm worried about that one eye cause white tears sometimes come out eye, looks red and swollen at time and clear liquid like he crying comes out that eye

[Mel1959]

The odontoma could be growing or only causing pain occasionally which is why you only see the white tears once in awhile. Is that the side the odontoma is on?

[ashleyhelene]

I'm not sure

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I decided to post to my old thread I had on here so it can be seen where it all started with Hercules and where we are now. The first 2 pictures that say good eye is the good eye. Now the other 2 pictures are the eye in question. One of the pictures is having the milky stuff coming out eye but also at times his eyelid looks red and a little swollen. It like at times it looks like he crying out that one eye cause it looks like water coming out. My question is what is wrong and what do I do. He is eating great, eat healthy blocks and boo balls everyday runs , jumps, and plays. Drinking water good to. Peeing and pooping correctly.

Hi AshleyHelene:
I'm sorry to hear that the white discharge from Hercules' right eye! It is certainly great that his appetite is good; he is drinking, pooping & peeing normally; and he active and interactive; BUT I have always been concerned about the white drainage! I was encouraged when it appeared following Hercules' tooth trimming that the drainage from his eye had resolved but unfortunately it has recurred. My concern with the drainage (please see my post in this thread from February 23, 2023) has always been that this may be pus or pus that is diluted by mixing with tears and as such would be definitive evidence of infection! The most likely infection would probably be related to dental issues such as an abscess which is a pus pocket. If you are where you could bring Hercules to Snicker Bar again where she could get a specimen of the white drainage and look at it under a microscope; it should be quite simple to determine whether or not it is pus (pus classically contains White Blood Cells, bacteria and cellular debris).
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Mel1959]

In the picture it looks like the jaw is swollen. Is it? My squirrel had an abscess in her jaw that required lancing twice. The abscess was caused from teeth that were damaged and contained infection. She ended up having 5 teeth pulled that were decayed.

[ashleyhelene]

I can look and let u know

[ashleyhelene]

I tired to look in his mouth this morning but he was not having that.

SamtheSquirrel2018- I have been wondering if it could be an infection (like you said pus coming out eye) the white tears did stop after trimming but this week started back. That eye is the same eye that looks red and swollen at times. Would it be ok to start him on antibiotics just in case this is what it is or no

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I tired to look in his mouth this morning but he was not having that.

SamtheSquirrel2018- I have been wondering if it could be an infection (like you said pus coming out eye) the white tears did stop after trimming but this week started back. That eye is the same eye that looks red and swollen at times. Would it be ok to start him on antibiotics just in case this is what it is or no

Hello again AshleyHelene: I need to give you my usual disclaimer and that is that I am not an ophthalmologist (an eye specialist) or even a Vet. I will give you my opinions however. My suggestion is to discuss this again with Snicker Bar and maybe even try for another contact with Dr. Emerson as she has seen the photos and radiographs and should be updated on Hercules condition. She may have some further recommendations. I do believe it would be very advantageous to be able to look at the "white tears" under a microscope. That obviously is not a "home project!"

As far as antibiotics, yes I would suggest using an antibiotic that will cover aerobic and anaerobic bacteria such as Clavamox (this is the Veterinary brand of Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate. A human brand name is Augmentin). Thjis is commonly prescribed to humans and is available as a generic. It may be something you could obtain. I would even suggest consideration of an eye antibiotic such a Ofloxacin Ophthalmic Drops. This also, is commonly prescribed to humans and animals alike.

Here is the "kicker;" antibiotics are very unlikely to penetrate well into an abscess and with infections related to dental problems; the definitive treatment is for extraction of the affected tooth (or teeth). This is relatively straight forward if the issues involve the molars and most Veterinarians willing to see rodents can accomplish this with proper anesthesia (usually inhaled) BUT while it may seem to be just as easy or even easier to extract an incisor is actually far more complex than extracting a molar and usually requires surgery to help prevent an almost certain fracture of the jaw resulting from trying to pull the incisor. IF the infection stems from an odontoma, surgery is far more complex than this and in my opinion, any contemplated extractions (which again, may very well be the necessary intervention) should be evaluated and performed by a Specialist such as Dr. Emerson!

Well, then, why the antibiotics: 1) Antibiotics may help "tone down" an infection and permit added time necessary to schedule an appointment with a Specialist. The antibiotics may even cure the the infection BUT this cannot be expected for a dental abscess or infection, but it can be "hoped for!" 2) there may be significant infection in the soft tissues around the jaw and the eye that may respond well to the antibiotics, 3) one of the major concerns about a dental associated infection is spread of the infection to the bone and possibly even into the inside of the skull which could involve the brain and antibiotics may help decrease this risk, 4) using additional topical eye antibiotic drops (such as the ofloxacin) may help with an eye infection that has developed. A common eye infection is a conjunctivitis which involves the thin layer of skin that covers most of the eye except for the cornea (the clear part of the eye).

Again, these are my opinions. Please discuss this with Snicker Bar and hopefully have another consultation with Dr. Emerson.

I will be at work for most of the day but others are following your thread and I will try to do so as time and internet availability permit.

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Mel1959]

:goodpost:goodpost:goodpost

STS is completely right with everything he said IMO. :grin3 Contact Dr. Marie again and make sure she is aware of all that is going on. She can help guide you as well as consult with Dr. E.

It usually requires 2 people to look in a squirrels mouth….one to hold the squirrel, burritoed in a blanket if necessary, and the other to put a medical tape wrapped popsicle stick or tongue depressor into the mouth and gently pry it open.

[ashleyhelene]

I'm just asking and trying to learn things too. I do want the very best for Hercules. If it was something with his mouth or odontoma wouldn't it make white tears in both eyes not just one eye, and wouldn't he have a hard time eating, or hurt him to eat or not wanting to eat. Ever sense we trimmed his teeth he started eating great and still is. I'm really very torn about the odontoma surgery cause for 1 we really not sure if he does really have it. Doctor . E said might/believe be the start of odontoma but more Xray need to be done to be for sure. And the surgery looks so brutal. Like I said I do want the very best care for him. I just want some other peoples opinion on this.

[ashleyhelene]

I have attach the bottle of antibiotics got for him. He is about 580 grams what would his dosage be

[Mel1959]

Can you post what the strength is, please?

[ashleyhelene]

I got it thanks snicker bar called me

[Mel1959]

👍

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you Mel and Snicker Bar for your continued help with Hercules! Thank you, AashleyHelene for your love and compassionate care of little Hercules!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel