Natural calcium for Amer. Red Squirrel ? Altern to HHB

[Stevelisa]

Not sure if its a winter thing, but Chippy girl the older of the 2 reds we are overwintering, wont eat the picky blocks or wild bites now. She just turns her nose when we offer it... used to hide them but wont event take it to hide them now.
She will only take avocado, blueberries, lettuce, and nuts of course when we offer it.

I know reds live on spruce cones in the wild, so we give her those when we have them. Is that their main source of calcium in the wild ? If not, should we give her something else to keep her calcium up ?

[Charley Chuckles]

I'm having same issue with Conker, I've been sprinkling little of calcium carbonate I get from Healthy Henry's Pets 👍

[McCarthy]

I use the same calcium carbonate from Henry's, mashed with some avocado, served on a small spoon so it doesn't end up in the nest.

https://henryspets.com/calcium-carbonate-powder-100-g-for-calcium-deficiency-mbd/

Make sure they get direct sun exposure, especially in winter, if possible without any window / glass being in the way. A cage on rolls is very helpful for this task.

Regarding Henry's blocks, none of my greys have ever touched any of them. I read a bunch of the product reviews and there are always customers around reporting the same issue. I'm not sure if they have quality issues with the blocks at times.

Reading the ingredients, it is basically a form of bread with some calcium and vitamins mixed in.

The main ingredients are whey protein isolate, wheat protein isolate, cracked wheat, wheat flour and oat bran. None of that is something that grey squirrels will eat in the wild first hand and I'm not sure that a heavy grain diet is the way to go. Somehow these blocks became the "standard" in the online world, but I stay clear. One of my last wilds growled at me when I tried to make him take a fresh block.

When you look at proper research data, and not what a company wants to sell, sciurus carolinensis in the wild (Eastern Gray Squirrels) eat berries, buds, tree bark, mushrooms, nuts, including acorns, beech, hickory, and walnuts. In the winter, they search for stashed food. In the summer they will also eat insects.

The problem is, once they get used to too many nuts, all other food turns the tiny nose away.

[Spanky]

It is not well understood where wild squirrels get their calcium. We can be certain that nuts in the wild are seasonal, and while they bury and eat nuts, nuts and seeds are not their majority diet year round. One research assessment that seemed reasonable is they eat woodlouse (pill bugs) which are rich in calcium. Like a small calcium pill. Regardless, wilds squirrels seem able to balance their calcium needs better than we humans are able to manage captive squirrels, dependent on the foods we provide, at least IMO.

The true key to calcium is not as much ensuring they eat enough calcium, but ensuring they are not getting too much calcium robbing foods in their diets. And the increased activity of a wild would seem, at least to me, play more than a small role. JMO.

I see a lot of posts about squirrels not eating their HHB. The simple answer is they should not be given that option. They absolutely WILL eat the HHB (or other block) if they have no other options. It's like expecting a dog that is fed a gluten of table scraps to eat their Iams (or whatever)... if they are fed tables scraps... meats, bones, whatever.. more than enough to satisfy their appetite, they are not going to eat the "dog food". Same thing with toddlers... a kid that is raised on veggies will love their veggies (for the most part). Kids that live on fast food will refuse to eat veggies... I know I may be over generalizing, but hopefully I am making the point.

I find feeding squirrels heir block ahead of the rest of their food... handing it out individually... they seem to receive it better. It part it is just training... eat the block, I will provide you a buffet of veggies and fruit.

If a child learns they get desert regardless of eating dinner, they'll soon stop eating dinner. However, if they only get desert after eating dinner... well different results. Ditto the dog that might get a bite here or there of scraps... no dinner, no scraps.

I have had the experience of having to "train" wild squirrels to eat block. It takes months in my experience. Admittedly I have never had to convert a wild like McCarthy's beach squirrels that I think largely eat "table scraps" (analogy). I don't think, for the most part, we should expect wilds to eat Henry's block if they have a choice between that and peanuts. Or avocado. Or potato chips (in some cases). Or.. or.. or.

But I have had taken in wild squirrels that could never be released (blinded for example). I guarantee you no squirrel will starve themselves to death with perfectly fit block available to eat. I also guarantee you a squirrel given their favorite foods as option over block (and not as a reward for eating block) will not eat the block. It is largely a battle of wills and yours must be stronger. JMO.

The Henry's has all the nutritionally required Vitamin D to help with the calcium absorption. Sunlight is great (as long as they can escape to share, have plenty of water... basically prevent sun stroke) and encouraged, provides another source of vitamin D as well as generally a good thing for every animal's spirits and well being.

[McCarthy]

It is not well understood where wild squirrels get their calcium. We can be certain that nuts in the wild are seasonal, and while they bury and eat nuts, nuts and seeds are not their majority diet year round. One research assessment that seemed reasonable is they eat woodlouse (pill bugs) which are rich in calcium. Like a small calcium pill. Regardless, wilds squirrels seem able to balance their calcium needs better than we humans are able to manage captive squirrels, dependent on the foods we provide, at least IMO.

The true key to calcium is not as much ensuring they eat enough calcium, but ensuring they are not getting too much calcium robbing foods in their diets. And the increased activity of a wild would seem, at least to me, play more than a small role. JMO.

I see a lot of posts about squirrels not eating their HHB. The simple answer is they should not be given that option. They absolutely WILL eat the HHB (or other block) if they have no other options. It's like expecting a dog that is fed a gluten of table scraps to eat their Iams (or whatever)... if they are fed tables scraps... meats, bones, whatever.. more than enough to satisfy their appetite, they are not going to eat the "dog food". Same thing with toddlers... a kid that is raised on veggies will love their veggies (for the most part). Kids that live on fast food will refuse to eat veggies... I know I may be over generalizing, but hopefully I am making the point.

I find feeding squirrels heir block ahead of the rest of their food... handing it out individually... they seem to receive it better. It part it is just training... eat the block, I will provide you a buffet of veggies and fruit.

If a child learns they get desert regardless of eating dinner, they'll soon stop eating dinner. However, if they only get desert after eating dinner... well different results. Ditto the dog that might get a bite here or there of scraps... no dinner, no scraps.

I have had the experience of having to "train" wild squirrels to eat block. It takes months in my experience. Admittedly I have never had to convert a wild like McCarthy's beach squirrels that I think largely eat "table scraps" (analogy). I don't think, for the most part, we should expect wilds to eat Henry's block if they have a choice between that and peanuts. Or avocado. Or potato chips (in some cases). Or.. or.. or.

But I have had taken in wild squirrels that could never be released (blinded for example). I guarantee you no squirrel will starve themselves to death with perfectly fit block available to eat. I also guarantee you a squirrel given their favorite foods as option over block (and not as a reward for eating block) will not eat the block. It is largely a battle of wills and yours must be stronger. JMO.

The Henry's has all the nutritionally required Vitamin D to help with the calcium absorption. Sunlight is great (as long as they can escape to share, have plenty of water... basically prevent sun stroke) and encouraged, provides another source of vitamin D as well as generally a good thing for every animal's spirits and well being.





You may be right when it comes to wild greys and why they generally will refuse blocks when they get too many treats. My typical 2 cases are different.

Those that live and stay in the beach park have a choice: its either human junk food in the form of fries, chicken nuggets, chips, tortillas, etc, or the nuts and avocado I offer. In average I show up 3 times a week, so they still eat mostly junk food, and I consider my nuts (almonds, pecans, walnut, cashews, pistachio) and avocado an improvement, but not the best possible outcome.

The few squirrels I take home for care are all either hurting or sick. So far they recovered within 2 to 5 weeks. Not enough time to force blocks or veggies on them, and I don't want them to avoid eating while they are supposed to get better.

Almost 20 years ago I had a wild field mouse as a pet. He was in my garage chewing through things, I got him with a life trap, it was too cold to kick him out (frozen ground), so I kept him around. He become tame within a week, to the point that I let him roam in the entire house. He would come running when I called his name. And he would eat whatever I was eating.

At some point he was eating chocolate and cookies on a daily basis, while still also eating fruit and grains.

He lasted 5 and a half years, well above the average.

I have countless photos with him eating cookies...



https://i.postimg.cc/jdXsrhmN/Img-0626.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/KvJyW83D/Img-0760.jpg

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Almost 20 years ago I had a wild field mouse as a pet. He was in my garage chewing through things, I got him with a life trap, it was too cold to kick him out (frozen ground), so I kept him around. He become tame within a week, to the point that I let him roam in the entire house. He would come running when I called his name. And he would eat whatever I was eating.

At some point he was eating chocolate and cookies on a daily basis, while still also eating fruit and grains.

He lasted 5 and a half years, well above the average.

I have countless photos with him eating cookies...

That is a cute little guy! Any other rodent pets since or just the occasional Squirrel house guest?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Mel1959]

I will reiterate what Spanky has said and add to it. My husband feeds our wild yard squirrels every afternoon. Around 3:30-4:00 a good portion of the neighborhood squirrels converge on our backyard for treats. He always takes out homemade boo balls (made with ground Harlan Teklad rodent block and other good food) before he goes out to sit with the nut can to hand out treats. These guys know that the boo balls have to be eaten first…..and this is when they are hungriest and most receptive to them.

Because I have a few released squirrels in the yard I have been providing a bowl of food in the morning that consists of boo balls, occasionally some Henry’s block, avocado, fresh coconut, sugar snap peas, sweet potato and fresh corn. It’s usually gone within an hour or two. They will eat the good stuff when they are the hungriest. You just have to stick to your guns and keep providing it. :grin3

[McCarthy]

That is a cute little guy! Any other rodent pets since or just the occasional Squirrel house guest?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel


I rehabbed many birds, mice and red squirrels back in the day, had over 100 birds and about 40 rodents in my care altogether. I started this in the mid 80s. At that time there was no internet and no wildlife rehabber licensing nor any wildlife centers (at least not in my area). At some point in the 2000s life got in the way but now I'm back at it, on my own terms so to speak. The long-term goal is to find some land in my neck of the woods and build an indoor and outdoor grey squirrel sanctuary for hurt squirrels, those that can't be released, and those that get trapped as pests and relocated, to spare them from death. I'm waiting for real-estate prices to come back down, they doubled in the last 2 years.

[island rehabber]

As a rehabber of a few years, I want to reiterate what Spanky and others have said: squirrels are not going to eat blocks OR Henry's if they've tasted nuts and treats already. As soon as my rehab babies' eyes open I put Teklad or Mazuri blocks in with them -- always whole, never broken up -- to prevent choking. Once they are eating them readily and even fighting over them, I will introduce Henry blocks (1 morning, 1 evening). Only after they are good little block eaters do I start introducing veggies and ALWAYS after they've eaten their blocks that day. No nuts until about a week before the release pen.

It was hard,.. I panicked that they would starve to death, or not get enough nutrition. They were fine, but honestly it took me a few years to get it through my head that they WOULD be fine. After sticking to the tough love approach, I had the healthiest, chubbiest babies ever. After release, they continue to love good fruits and veggies like squash, sweet potato and avocado.

Just my two cents. Blocks rock. :grin3

[Stevelisa]

Discipline, I haven't been good at that. Other than no nuts out of the cage and not overdoing the nuts in the cage, I've mostly given in to what they like. The 11 month Chippy is very vocal, she has a whole range of chattering, crying, whimpering, happy sounds and knows how to use it to get my attention. I think her whining is usually to get free-run time and food second. The whimpering and whining starts as soon as she sees me come into the living room. As soon as she's out, never whines or whimpers. I give in regularly to let her out, she's so happy out and about. She is training me very well I'd say lol.

Here is Chippy making herself at home on my desk. She took my apple i had taken a bite out of, took quite a few bites herself then picked it up with her teeth and carried it along best she could, to a hiding place. She prefers eating on a whole apple than to eat a small slice.
If she keeps refusing the blocks I like your avocado / calcium mixture :broccoli

Thanks for these great experiences

324095

[McCarthy]

HA! Ya'll are owned by a cute little PET squirrels. Try to tell a wild, that lives not only in the trees but a beach park, what they are supposed to eat! Good luck. :grin3

When I fix myself dinner, my 2 rivaling females like to sit on my leg for first class access to MY food.



https://i.postimg.cc/25dkFRQg/20221014-190912.jpg



When they see or smell fries, you better get your fingers out of the way.


https://i.postimg.cc/QdQGvgFT/20221005-153121.jpg




One of my house guests wouldn't eat ANY of this:


https://i.postimg.cc/Rh063VHM/20220612-101526.jpg



I had to make a run to McDonalds for some fresh fries! He was eating them while sitting on his back, using 2 paws, 1 hind, and his man-pillow!


https://i.postimg.cc/QCnBcGQc/Image1.png

[Spanky]

I think her whining is usually to get free-run time and food second.

A suggestion you may want to consider: If she (they) love run-free time out of the cage, give her the Henry's in her cage and her "reward" for eating it can be run-free time. It may take a while for the pattern to develop so that she realizes, eat the block get to play. Maybe start with just 1/4 block... a nice "nutty" piece (of Henry's) and work up to 1/2, etc. I cut them all in half so I can hand them out individually through the bars of the cages. They get their block while I am prepping the veggie buffets. No doubt this will require discipline and patience.

The Chewy commercial with the dog sing-songing "the peanut butter box is here" keeps running through my head while I am typing this up... :rotfl

[Diggie's Friend]

Most of the calcium in the natural wild diet of tree squirrels is obtained from the soil (geophagy) where they pull up tufts of grasses that they flip over to chew on the soil that surrounding the roots. This soil also contains calcium and other minerals, which along with probiotics and prebiotics that are noted to be vital for digesting green plant sources of which they consume the least of by proportion in the wild.

"Pet Flora" produced by "Vitality Science" of NM. contains both soil based organisms and soil based probiotics also. There are notably no sugar sources in this product unlike other probiotics that use a sugar source (FOS) as a prebiotic; yet this source promotes not just the growth of good bacterial forms but the bad ones also. The prebiotic included in, "Pet Flora" supports the growth of good bacterial forms, yet counters the bad forms.

Info and order site: https://vitalityscience.com/product/cat-probiotics/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIutObxsSB_QIVDzutBh12sgtuEAAYASA AEgJL4PD_BwE

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?58364-The-sources-tree-squirrels-mainly-rely-upon-in-the-wild-for-calcium&highlight=Calcium

(For research data, see pdf file: "Calcium sources squirrels eat" on first page)

[Diggie's Friend]

More info on calcium sources from the wild habitats of tree squirrels:

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?58364-The-sources-tree-squirrels-mainly-rely-upon-in-the-wild-for-calcium&p=1262753#post1262753

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?58364-The-sources-tree-squirrels-mainly-rely-upon-in-the-wild-for-calcium&p=1355227#post1355227

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?58364-The-sources-tree-squirrels-mainly-rely-upon-in-the-wild-for-calcium&p=1355236#post1355236

[Stevelisa]

I will reiterate what Spanky has said and add to it. My husband feeds our wild yard squirrels every afternoon. Around 3:30-4:00 a good portion of the neighborhood squirrels converge on our backyard for treats. He always takes out homemade boo balls (made with ground Harlan Teklad rodent block and other good food) before he goes out to sit with the nut can to hand out treats. These guys know that the boo balls have to be eaten first…..and this is when they are hungriest and most receptive to them.

Because I have a few released squirrels in the yard I have been providing a bowl of food in the morning that consists of boo balls, occasionally some Henry’s block, avocado, fresh coconut, sugar snap peas, sweet potato and fresh corn. It’s usually gone within an hour or two. They will eat the good stuff when they are the hungriest. You just have to stick to your guns and keep providing it. :grin3

This morning tried a few slices of sweet potatoes from your list.... they devoured it instantly :w00t

Woohoo a new treat for them .... about 50mg calcium per potato

[Stevelisa]

HA! Ya'll are owned by a cute little PET squirrels. Try to tell a wild, that lives not only in the trees but a beach park, what they are supposed to eat! Good luck. :grin3



I wish these 2 reds could run in and out like those grays. There are no reds in my neighborhood, except for a couple chattering i heard about 1/4 mile away. There are many black squirrels around here... i think that is the northern/colder-climate species of grays. From the little I've read, black squirrels can be more agressive than normal grays, towards the smaller reds.
Any experience on this would be very welcome.

[Stevelisa]

I am really beginning to stress about how and where to release them in the spring, if I can with minimal risk to them. I have a wooden garden shed in my yard that has eave openings. If I put their release cage and box in there, they’d have some security from the black squirrels (which have never ventured in there) until they could get used to looking after themselves. We raised the 2 girls from separate rescues, so they are not siblings. But maybe just being side by side cages since July they are getting used to each other… would they look out for each other outside? Or I have a good friend with a large property and forest in the country, she has experience with squirrels and various animals.

[Mel1959]

I’m not familiar with the behavior of black squirrels being more aggressive towards reds. Black squirrels are a mutation of the gray squirrel. I hope others will chime in about the aggressiveness of black squirrels as it pertains to reds.

[Stevelisa]

When they see or smell fries, you better get your fingers out of the way.


I had to make a run to McDonalds for some fresh fries! He was eating them while sitting on his back, using 2 paws, 1 hind, and his man-pillow!


Its amazing the attraction to fries, these reds love it too. Funny she opened the bag of potatoes once on the floor chewed up a whole potato spitting every piece out, just loves biting into it but not the taste.

[McCarthy]

I wish these 2 reds could run in and out like those grays. There are no reds in my neighborhood, except for a couple chattering i heard about 1/4 mile away. There are many black squirrels around here... i think that is the northern/colder-climate species of grays. From the little I've read, black squirrels can be more agressive than normal grays, towards the smaller reds.
Any experience on this would be very welcome.


Red squirrels get indeed displaced by grey (and black) squirrels. Britain has lost most of their red squirrel population ever since greys made it onto the island. Greys are more robust, larger, heavier, more territorial and have stronger health.

[Diggie's Friend]

Sad as it is to see one species wane; yet there is more to this story. Back in the early 20 Century, the native Eurasian red squirrel of Germany were blamed for damage to spruce forests and branded a pest to where it was hunted to eradicate their kind. Since it was confirmed that the main cause of damage to the coniferous forests was bud worms, which ironically red squirrels consume in great numbers where they infest these trees.

Now scientists have sought to lay claim that the cause of the reduction of the numbers of the native red squirrels of the UK arose solely came about from the introduction of the N.A. Eastern gray squirrel, that was introduced long after near all of the damage occurred taking up residence in former Red squirrel territory. Yet, most of the habitat formerly now inhabited by the Eastern Gray squirrel was in fact decimated from farming long prior to the introduction of the N.A. gray squirrel. So when Eastern Grays were introduced into regions long since vacated by the native reds of Europe (a different species than that of the N.A. Red squirrels) and thrived there, where the native red could no longer do so for lack of specific food trees that that the reds squirrels require, the introduced gray squirrels thrived.


“Grey squirrels are not as crazy invaders as we think – their spread is far more our own fault.” The research is published in two papers, in the journals Biological Conservation and Diversity and Distributions.

There are UK websites that explain this. Interestingly, researchers found that where the Red squirrel in Scotland is well entrenched in good numbers, grays have not effected

Here is a website that elaborates on these very issues: http://i-csrs.com/red-squirrels-decline

And though true that the introduced E. Grays to the UK have flourished in the abscess of healthy number of native reds, they compete for food. One project in Scotland is restoring the Caledonian forest and placing red squirrels in this area that was decimated by overharvesting trees and damaging the habitat that favors the Euro Red squirrel. Good news is that the Reds are increasing in numbers in Scotland. There is also scientific evidence that the Red squirrel of Europe were effected by squirrel pox prior to the introduction of the N.A. gray squirrel.