How to keep squirrel be quiet to take X-ray?

[Harivxx]

Hello. My squirrel is having difficulty breathing in from 8/12/2022. and milky discharge on the eyes. suspected odontoma. I want to take him for an X-ray but the vet here has no experience treating squirrels. So what should I do to keep the baby quiet to take X-ray? If anesthetized, what anesthetic should be used and the dose how much is safe. I'm afraid the anesthetic will make him stop breathing. and if the odontoma is real, the surgeon cannot be found. I live in Ho Chi Minh city, Vietnam. Please help me please. Here does not have veterinarians who specializes in squirrels or small animals. insufficient equipment for diagnogsis and surgery. for squirrels can only be therapy treatment here. I'm a doctor but for human not animals, it's so sad. Please tell me how,I can learn. Please help me. That baby is important to me as my own life. Please save the my baby.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hello. My squirrel is having difficulty breathing in from 8/12/2022. and milky discharge on the eyes. suspected odontoma. I want to take him for an X-ray but the vet here has no experience treating squirrels. So what should I do to keep the baby quiet to take X-ray? If anesthetized, what anesthetic should be used and the dose how much is safe. I'm afraid the anesthetic will make him stop breathing. and if the odontoma is real, the surgeon cannot be found. I live in Ho Chi Minh city, Vietnam. Please help me please. Here does not have veterinarians who specializes in squirrels or small animals. insufficient equipment for diagnogsis and surgery. for squirrels can only be therapy treatment here. I'm a doctor but for human not animals, it's so sad. Please tell me how,I can learn. Please help me. That baby is important to me as my own life. Please save the my baby.

Hi Harivxx: I'm so sorry about your Squirrel's condition. Is there any drainage from the nose? It could very well be an odontoma but you are seeing drainage from both sides which would suggest similar problems bilaterally and this is also quite possible. I have a couple of comments and suggestions. When you talk about an anesthetic, I assume you are referring to an inhaled agent that would be used to enable your Squirrel to reach a relatively light degree of sedation to facilitate the obtaining of the radiographic study necessary to visualize the skull and in particular, the dentition. Were you going to perform the x-rays or were you going to take your Squirrel to the Vet for that. If you were going to the Vet, would he not have some appropriate anesthetic agent for sedating your Squirrel even if he could not perform the surgery? Isoflurane is a common anesthetic agent used to "gas down" a Squirrel for sedation but for an physician, at least in the States; it is impossible to simply write ones self a prescription for this as office use of these agents is not ordinarily done and the supplier your wrote the prescription for this agent would most likely refuse to fill it probably report us to the State Medical Board. It may be different in Vietnam but without training in this I would not recommend that you do it anyway. Also, ether, chloroform and a number of other older inhaled anesthetic agents are no longer used here and even if you could get these, I would not recommend any of those either.

This brings up another issue and that is while the x-ray study may help define a diagnosis, there is no one who can perform the surgery so why risk the anesthesia/sedation? As a physician, you can probably get most any oral antibiotic and I would suggest getting your Squirrel started on an antibiotic immediately as infection and abscess are likely. Antibiotics do not penetrate into an abscess well but if there is purulent drainage and it is coming from an abscess, at least it is spontaneously draining and the antibiotic may be able to at least make the underlying process (possibly an odontoma with abscess formation) quiescent but of course, will not actually cure the underlying condition if it is indeed an odontoma, or other pathology such as a tumor which would in those cases most likely be surgery. The surgery ideally must be performed by someone with previous, high quality training and experience in that particular type of procedure on Squirrels!

If you were going to opt for starting antibiotics, I would recommend using Amoxicillin-Clavulanate (Augmentin in a brand in the States). I do not know what brand names there are for this medication in Vietnam but the generic is just fine. It would be essential for you to obtain an accurate weight of your Squirrel for dosing purposes. Hopefully you have a digital scale able to weigh in grams but we can use ounces or pounds and fractions if necessary. If this is how you might want to proceed, please post the weight of your Squirrel and the particular antibiotic you have along with its strength usually expressed in milligrams. One of the Admins on The Squirrel Board or others authorized by The Squirrel Board to send dosing instructions will calculate this for your and send it to you via a Private Message through TSB.
I wish the best for your Squirrel and for you Harivxx; now and for the New Year! By the way, what is the name of your Squirrel?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Harivxx]

Hi Harivxx: I'm so sorry about your Squirrel's condition. Is there any drainage from the nose? It could very well be an odontoma but you are seeing drainage from both sides which would suggest similar problems bilaterally and this is also quite possible. I have a couple of comments and suggestions. When you talk about an anesthetic, I assume you are referring to an inhaled agent that would be used to enable your Squirrel to reach a relatively light degree of sedation to facilitate the obtaining of the radiographic study necessary to visualize the skull and in particular, the dentition. Were you going to perform the x-rays or were you going to take your Squirrel to the Vet for that. If you were going to the Vet, would he not have some appropriate anesthetic agent for sedating your Squirrel even if he could not perform the surgery? Isoflurane is a common anesthetic agent used to "gas down" a Squirrel for sedation but for an physician, at least in the States; it is impossible to simply write ones self a prescription for this as office use of these agents is not ordinarily done and the supplier your wrote the prescription for this agent would most likely refuse to fill it probably report us to the State Medical Board. It may be different in Vietnam but without training in this I would not recommend that you do it anyway. Also, ether, chloroform and a number of other older inhaled anesthetic agents are no longer used here and even if you could get these, I would not recommend any of those either.

This brings up another issue and that is while the x-ray study may help define a diagnosis, there is no one who can perform the surgery so why risk the anesthesia/sedation? As a physician, you can probably get most any oral antibiotic and I would suggest getting your Squirrel started on an antibiotic immediately as infection and abscess are likely. Antibiotics do not penetrate into an abscess well but if there is purulent drainage and it is coming from an abscess, at least it is spontaneously draining and the antibiotic may be able to at least make the underlying process (possibly an odontoma with abscess formation) quiescent but of course, will not actually cure the underlying condition if it is indeed an odontoma, or other pathology such as a tumor which would in those cases most likely be surgery. The surgery ideally must be performed by someone with previous, high quality training and experience in that particular type of procedure on Squirrels!

If you were going to opt for starting antibiotics, I would recommend using Amoxicillin-Clavulanate (Augmentin in a brand in the States). I do not know what brand names there are for this medication in Vietnam but the generic is just fine. It would be essential for you to obtain an accurate weight of your Squirrel for dosing purposes. Hopefully you have a digital scale able to weigh in grams but we can use ounces or pounds and fractions if necessary. If this is how you might want to proceed, please post the weight of your Squirrel and the particular antibiotic you have along with its strength usually expressed in milligrams. One of the Admins on The Squirrel Board or others authorized by The Squirrel Board to send dosing instructions will calculate this for your and send it to you via a Private Message through TSB.
I wish the best for your Squirrel and for you Harivxx; now and for the New Year! By the way, what is the name of your Squirrel?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel


Thank you so much for reply me and happy new year to you , admins TSB and all members.
My squirrel names Tanie.
I talk a little about anamnesis:
At 8/12/2022 he had difficulty breathe in when sleeping at 8 PM, used mouth and abdominal muscles for breathing, tears in his right eye and some time with* milky white fluid discharge from the corners. The first days I gave him fluticasone spray into the nasal mucosa, it was effective for the first 1-2 days. I used fluticasone + eye drops (component dexamethasone + tobramycin) + NaCl 0.9% on 8, 9, 10, 11, 12/12/2022. the feasibility was not high because he struggled when give the spray and the condition does not improve more and there is a high risk of aspiration causing suffocation should be stopped. I switched to oral dexamethasone 0.016mg/200g (0.08mg/kg) once daily (12,13,14,15/12) + cephalexin * 12mg/200g body weight (60mg/kg) from 13, 14, 15, 16* ,17/12 . but did not see any improvement. 17/12* I took to the vet for a nose-throat endoscopy. but could not endoscopy because the endoscope tip is too big to fit. I was about to take an X-ray but my baby struggled, and also couldn't anesthetize because he was suffocating, I was afraid that anesthesia would reduce breathing and stop breathing. From December 18 to December 29 (12 days), I gave enrofloxacin 2mg/200g (10mg/kg dose), when he had fever and difficulty breathing I gave him paracetamol 2mg/200g (10mg/kg). He had fever some time, but not over 38*C , every time I saw he over 37*C* , I gave paracetamol.
December 27, he started sneezing sometimes. On the evening same day, starting at about 10 o'clock at night, He sneezed a lot (I think it was due to dust from clothes or a strange scent around because I was cleaning my room at that time)* .* until 1:00 28/12* He showed signs of increased asphyxia, panting, gasping for breath, severe breathing in the mouth and abdominal muscles, severe lack of ventilation, the baby became agitated, I sprayed salbutamol into his mouth, sprayed fluticasone into nose.* , give dexamethasone 0.016mg (0.08mg/kg) at 1:32.* then his condition stabilized and breathing became smoother.* sleep well.* until 5:00 a.m. I strimed his teeth.* One of the upper incisors is too long.* After strimming it, the other one was longer, so when I strimed the other one too, the back of the tooth was bleeding.* Bleeding not much but it seems to have touched the dentin part of the tooth.* After the blood soaked into the gauze, the tooth stain (the part that was stripped) was still red and looked painful.* I'm afraid of getting an infection in the pulp and dying, will that happen?* Currently, my baby's vital signs are stable, eating and drinking as well, still flexible but seems to be more tired than when healthy.* when the baby breathes through his mouth sound is like a duck's sound. at the begining, the breathe out sound normally, just pathalogy as breathe in.* but now* it sounds like two consecutive clicks like the click of a computer mouse.* The baby's right eyelids are swollen and red.* Left eye began to see a milky white discharge.* The tip of the nose is very dry, the inside of the nose which can be seen is purple-red, it seems to be swollen and the airway is narrow, the right nose sometimes has much serum but not completely drained out.* December 28 and 29, 30 sneeze a lot.* 31 till now sneeze reduce, but his nose more sensitive with strange smell , dust...
Now I think there are 4 possibilities: 1. odontoma , because long course antibiotic has been used but still no relief more of symptoms. or : 2. COPD combined with Bronchial Asthma. or 3. have an upper airway infection that is resistant to bacteria or is caused by a fungus. Or 4. Other abscesses.
I'm keeping using antibiotic for long course, today is the 14th using enrofloxacin, I'm planing use it 3 weeks to 1 month. But I need to take X-Ray. But my problem is if X-Ray shows the tumor in incisor so where do I can find the surgeon to remove it. I get headeach. My Tanie is sleeping, the breathing sound is like car turn signal "tik tak" .

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you so much for reply me and happy new year to you , admins TSB and all members.
My squirrel names Tanie.
I talk a little about anamnesis:
At 8/12/2022 he had difficulty breathe in when sleeping at 8 PM, used mouth and abdominal muscles for breathing, tears in his right eye and some time with* milky white fluid discharge from the corners. The first days I gave him fluticasone spray into the nasal mucosa, it was effective for the first 1-2 days. I used fluticasone + eye drops (component dexamethasone + tobramycin) + NaCl 0.9% on 8, 9, 10, 11, 12/12/2022. the feasibility was not high because he struggled when give the spray and the condition does not improve more and there is a high risk of aspiration causing suffocation should be stopped. I switched to oral dexamethasone 0.016mg/200g (0.08mg/kg) once daily (12,13,14,15/12) + cephalexin * 12mg/200g body weight (60mg/kg) from 13, 14, 15, 16* ,17/12 . but did not see any improvement. 17/12* I took to the vet for a nose-throat endoscopy. but could not endoscopy because the endoscope tip is too big to fit. I was about to take an X-ray but my baby struggled, and also couldn't anesthetize because he was suffocating, I was afraid that anesthesia would reduce breathing and stop breathing. From December 18 to December 29 (12 days), I gave enrofloxacin 2mg/200g (10mg/kg dose), when he had fever and difficulty breathing I gave him paracetamol 2mg/200g (10mg/kg). He had fever some time, but not over 38*C , every time I saw he over 37*C* , I gave paracetamol.
December 27, he started sneezing sometimes. On the evening same day, starting at about 10 o'clock at night, He sneezed a lot (I think it was due to dust from clothes or a strange scent around because I was cleaning my room at that time)* .* until 1:00 28/12* He showed signs of increased asphyxia, panting, gasping for breath, severe breathing in the mouth and abdominal muscles, severe lack of ventilation, the baby became agitated, I sprayed salbutamol into his mouth, sprayed fluticasone into nose.* , give dexamethasone 0.016mg (0.08mg/kg) at 1:32.* then his condition stabilized and breathing became smoother.* sleep well.* until 5:00 a.m. I strimed his teeth.* One of the upper incisors is too long.* After strimming it, the other one was longer, so when I strimed the other one too, the back of the tooth was bleeding.* Bleeding not much but it seems to have touched the dentin part of the tooth.* After the blood soaked into the gauze, the tooth stain (the part that was stripped) was still red and looked painful.* I'm afraid of getting an infection in the pulp and dying, will that happen?* Currently, my baby's vital signs are stable, eating and drinking as well, still flexible but seems to be more tired than when healthy.* when the baby breathes through his mouth sound is like a duck's sound. at the begining, the breathe out sound normally, just pathalogy as breathe in.* but now* it sounds like two consecutive clicks like the click of a computer mouse.* The baby's right eyelids are swollen and red.* Left eye began to see a milky white discharge.* The tip of the nose is very dry, the inside of the nose which can be seen is purple-red, it seems to be swollen and the airway is narrow, the right nose sometimes has much serum but not completely drained out.* December 28 and 29, 30 sneeze a lot.* 31 till now sneeze reduce, but his nose more sensitive with strange smell , dust...
Now I think there are 4 possibilities: 1. odontoma , because long course antibiotic has been used but still no relief more of symptoms. or : 2. COPD combined with Bronchial Asthma. or 3. have an upper airway infection that is resistant to bacteria or is caused by a fungus. Or 4. Other abscesses.
I'm keeping using antibiotic for long course, today is the 14th using enrofloxacin, I'm planing use it 3 weeks to 1 month. But I need to take X-Ray. But my problem is if X-Ray shows the tumor in incisor so where do I can find the surgeon to remove it. I get headeach. My Tanie is sleeping, the breathing sound is like car turn signal "tik tak" .

Hello again Harivxx and hello Tanie:
Thanks for your response. I have a few more comments and suggestions for you if I may. We do not have the same data for Squirrels as we do for humans when it comes to mouth and dental infections. It is possible that someone such as Dr. Emerson in Florida who performs many Odontoma and dental abscess procedures would have some data based upon her probable frequent cultures from these areas. BUT without the Squirrel data to utilize; I would NOT recommend Enrofloxacin or any fluoroquinolone for infections of or stemming from oral, dental or adjacent structures because data in humans indicate that these infections are usually polymicrobial and Anaerobic bacteria far outnumber aerobic bacteria in cultures from these areas. My suggestion is as before and that is to switch to Amoxicillin-Clavulanate (Augmentin) as this is very effective against anaerobes and likely aerobes. Further, Dr. Emerson, the Vet I mentioned who is an expert in odontoma and dental procedures and treatments, also recommends Augmentin for infections with dental or oral origins. Again, if you would like to switch antibiotics to Amoxicillin-Clavulanate, we will need an accurate weight of Tanie and also the strength of the tablet, capsule or suspension of Amoxicillin-Clavulanate that you have available for mixing and dosing instructions.

As far as the mouth breathing; Squirrels and most if not all rodents, along with many other animals and infant humans as well are Obligate Nose Breathers. Obligate nose breathers cannot simply change from nose breathing to mouth breathing as we adult humans can if our noses become stuffy or occluded. Yes, Squirrels can and will breath through their mouths but it is a "last resort" and they sound terrible when they do so and can swallow air and the abdomen can become distended from the swallowed air. It seems doubtful to me that Tanie has COPD but she may have aspirated which is common during Squirrel mouth breathing and have an aspiration pneumonia or pneumonitis but I suspect most if not all of her breathing difficulties stem from upper airway issues that have resulted in at least partial obstruction of her nasal passages and/or even her pharynx. I still suspect odontoma however with probably a concurrent infection. Although Enrofloxacin may very well help with a pneumonia, I would also suggest using Amoxicillin-Clavulanate for this condition assuming that it might be a factor as well especially in light of the fact that Tanie has been on Enrofloxacin for 2 full weeks and is still very symptomatic!

Is it possible for you to hold Tanie as still as possible while you wear a radiation apron and just place Tanie over the cassette and let the tech now when she has relaxed and have the tech take the x-ray right at that moment. You could do this same from a couple different angles and shoot the films right at a moment when Tanie has become still. Just a thought!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Harivxx]

Hello again Harivxx and hello Tanie:
Thanks for your response. I have a few more comments and suggestions for you if I may. We do not have the same data for Squirrels as we do for humans when it comes to mouth and dental infections. It is possible that someone such as Dr. Emerson in Florida who performs many Odontoma and dental abscess procedures would have some data based upon her probable frequent cultures from these areas. BUT without the Squirrel data to utilize; I would NOT recommend Enrofloxacin or any fluoroquinolone for infections of or stemming from oral, dental or adjacent structures because data in humans indicate that these infections are usually polymicrobial and Anaerobic bacteria far outnumber aerobic bacteria in cultures from these areas. My suggestion is as before and that is to switch to Amoxicillin-Clavulanate (Augmentin) as this is very effective against anaerobes and likely aerobes. Further, Dr. Emerson, the Vet I mentioned who is an expert in odontoma and dental procedures and treatments, also recommends Augmentin for infections with dental or oral origins. Again, if you would like to switch antibiotics to Amoxicillin-Clavulanate, we will need an accurate weight of Tanie and also the strength of the tablet, capsule or suspension of Amoxicillin-Clavulanate that you have available for mixing and dosing instructions.

As far as the mouth breathing; Squirrels and most if not all rodents, along with many other animals and infant humans as well are Obligate Nose Breathers. Obligate nose breathers cannot simply change from nose breathing to mouth breathing as we adult humans can if our noses become stuffy or occluded. Yes, Squirrels can and will breath through their mouths but it is a "last resort" and they sound terrible when they do so and can swallow air and the abdomen can become distended from the swallowed air. It seems doubtful to me that Tanie has COPD but she may have aspirated which is common during Squirrel mouth breathing and have an aspiration pneumonia or pneumonitis but I suspect most if not all of her breathing difficulties stem from upper airway issues that have resulted in at least partial obstruction of her nasal passages and/or even her pharynx. I still suspect odontoma however with probably a concurrent infection. Although Enrofloxacin may very well help with a pneumonia, I would also suggest using Amoxicillin-Clavulanate for this condition assuming that it might be a factor as well especially in light of the fact that Tanie has been on Enrofloxacin for 2 full weeks and is still very symptomatic!

Is it possible for you to hold Tanie as still as possible while you wear a radiation apron and just place Tanie over the cassette and let the tech now when she has relaxed and have the tech take the x-ray right at that moment. You could do this same from a couple different angles and shoot the films right at a moment when Tanie has become still. Just a thought!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

really thank you so much for replying me so enthusiastically even though it's new year and people usually go out rather than work. I used enrofloxacin because I initially assumed that Tanie had more laryngitis than odontoma. because at that time I couldn't explain the reason for the milky fluid discharge, at that time I just thought that the lacrimal canal seemed to be blocked, so that's why. but i can't explain the milky color of the fluid, i thought the lacrimal canal was blocked, causing inflammation of the meibomian glands in the eyelids, so it pushed out the milky white fluid. at that time i accessed this website by wifi, the wifi IP was blocked, until today with the help of admins finally i can access it, i read the articles in this web and i think he has odontoma up to 80% because milky fluid discharge is very characteristic.
I just found a vet clinic that removed teeth for a rabbit (seem like odontoma too) and operated on dog teeth on facebook in Vietnam. I sent them a message and am waiting for a response. I wish there were doctors in Vietnam like Dr. Emerson or Dr. Emerson come to Vietnam so how good it is . In Vietnam, veterinarians only specialize in dogs and cats or large wild animals such as bears and tigers. and for small wild animals, almost none, if any, only therapy treatment. Thanks god that Tanie right now is still stable, not in emergency status . there were many small animals out there need help but can not find the suitable vet, then died. For Tanie, i must to save him.
I will consider using amoxicillin / augmentin because in Vietnam bacteria are resistant to amoxicillin a lot, Tanie weighs about 300g, and I can buy Augmentin 500mg as tablet form here.

[Harivxx]

I thought he had swelling inflamation whole nasal mucosa, trachea, and possibly throat (cannot be checked visually), may have been start into the bronches, even lung. But after read all the post here from previous people , i'm surely about 80% odontoma, something there, tumor or abscess is staying in nasal canvitas. The breathing sound "tik tak" or something sounds like duck may only when he breathes by mounthn because sometimes he stays quiet and breathes just only with nose but just after 2-3 seconds, he opens mounth.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

really thank you so much for replying me so enthusiastically even though it's new year and people usually go out rather than work. I used enrofloxacin because I initially assumed that Tanie had more laryngitis than odontoma. because at that time I couldn't explain the reason for the milky fluid discharge, at that time I just thought that the lacrimal canal seemed to be blocked, so that's why. but i can't explain the milky color of the fluid, i thought the lacrimal canal was blocked, causing inflammation of the meibomian glands in the eyelids, so it pushed out the milky white fluid. at that time i accessed this website by wifi, the wifi IP was blocked, until today with the help of admins finally i can access it, i read the articles in this web and i think he has odontoma up to 80% because milky fluid discharge is very characteristic.
I just found a vet clinic that removed teeth for a rabbit (seem like odontoma too) and operated on dog teeth on facebook in Vietnam. I sent them a message and am waiting for a response. I wish there were doctors in Vietnam like Dr. Emerson or Dr. Emerson come to Vietnam so how good it is . In Vietnam, veterinarians only specialize in dogs and cats or large wild animals such as bears and tigers. and for small wild animals, almost none, if any, only therapy treatment. Thanks god that Tanie right now is still stable, not in emergency status . there were many small animals out there need help but can not find the suitable vet, then died. For Tanie, i must to save him.
I will consider using amoxicillin / augmentin because in Vietnam bacteria are resistant to amoxicillin a lot, Tanie weighs about 300g, and I can buy Augmentin 500mg as tablet form here.

Yes, Amoxicillin is the major component of Augmentin (Amoxicillin/Clavulanate) but when Amoxicillin is combined with the Clavulante; this becomes essentially a different medication with an enhanced spectrum of coverage which includes many beta-lactamase producing Gram negatives and anaerobes! The clavulanate confers significant resistance to Beta Lactamases produced by many bacteria so while there may be wide-spread resistance to amoxicillin itself in Vietnam, this resistance is probably due in major part to its susceptibility to beta-lactamases does not necessarily carry over to Amoxicillin/Clavulanate. I would encourage you to give Augmentin a try and also to see what the other Vet Clinic has to say. What do you think about my idea of working in tandem with the x-ray tech to shoot films just at a moment when Tanie is quiet. You could hold her over or very near the cassette and the film could be obtained almost instantly with a click of the button by the tech upon your command. Oftentimes, radiographs offer considerable evidence supporting the diagnosis of odontoma.

Is the weight of Tanie a guess or was she actually weighed? The reson I am asking this is because you wrote "about 300g." If this is an approximation, it would be be far better and more accurate of course to obtain her actual weight!

**Also, according to the "rules" here on TSB, one of the Admins or others who have been authorized to provide preparation and dosing instructions will need to be the ones to give you that information and it will be done via Private Message as another convention followed on TSB is that dosing information is NOT put on the open Board and is delivered only by Private Message. This because the rationale for a particular medication and the preparation and dosing is specific to one Squirrel only and we don't want unnecessary or worse yet, inappropriate or potentially harmful dosing to occur easily happen if this information which again is Squirrel specific, was placed on the Open Board.

**My post will "bump" your thread and hopefully one of the Admins will be available shortly to give you the dosing instructions. Again, please verify Tanie's weight and please keep us updated on Tanie's condition and and what is going on in her behalf. Thanks for you care of this little Squirrel!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Spanky]

Tanie weighs about 300g, and I can buy Augmentin 500mg as tablet form here.

I will PM dosing for Augmentin 500mg-125 mg tablet (Amoxicillin500mg/clavulanic acid 125mg) for a 300gram squirrel. Let us know if the tablets are not as I have described.

[CritterMom]

Dosing sent in PM

[Harivxx]

I will PM dosing for Augmentin 500mg-125 mg tablet (Amoxicillin500mg/clavulanic acid 125mg) for a 300gram squirrel. Let us know if the tablets are not as I have described.

Thank you. Yes there're 2 type: one in tablet as you said 500/125 mg , one in powder form : Amoxicillin 500mg / clavulanic acid 62.5mg .

[Chirps]

Bump

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi Harivxx:
How is Tanie doing? Did you start the Amoxicillin/Clavulanate?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Harivxx]

hello i came back here to ask how to use isoflurane safe for squirrels. I want to ask if it is difficult to breathe like this and have to breathe through the mouth, is anesthesia safe. I went to a foreign veterinarian, she agreed to take X-ray at my request but through talking I felt that she has no experience working on squirrels. she said X Ray film of squirrel is hard to see the pathalogy. I mentioned odontoma and if there's an odontoma, have to remove incisors. but she didn't seem to know about it and kept asking me why remove incisors. Totally, from the consultation I did not get any results and was even more disappointed. At first she said Tanie couldn't get an X-ray because anesthesia may kill him. I told them in USA they still have X-Rays, normal anesthesia, and teeth removing surgery. She said USA is different, here is different, USA is morderm than here, she said, "I don't know who told you to remove the squirrel's incisors, because with out incisors he can't eat, the squirrel needs to live happily , to play, to use its full body,......bla bla" .* finally , I said I wanted to take an X-Ray to see, she agreed and made an appointment for the next day. After I got home thinking about it, I canceled my appointment and told her I needed time to consider whether to do it or not because it was dangerous for Tanie. 1- Tanie cannot breathe normally through his nose, his respiratory rate is very fast, using both her abdominal muscles and her mouth to breathe. If the respiratory rate decreases under anesthesia, will there be hypoxia leading to death? 2. The skill and qualifications of this veterinarian I highly doubt. I want to ask if the squirrel has an odontoma and difficult to breathe, in the USA, (if it's Dr. Emerson) how to take X-ray, how is sedation process that's safe? Tanie right now as I see, he can't open the nuts, even sunflower's seeds, it may be hurt inside so he cant bite the cover.
I started course with Amoxicillin . To day is day 4th.
P.s Does anyone here have Dr. Emerson's email/contacs ? Please give me please. I want to ask her , she may not have time to answer but I still want to try. Or does anyone know a specialist can treat odontoma in Vietnam please tell me, please. Every night I wake up and touch Tanie to check him if he breathes ok or stops. Sometime when he sleep, I did not listen the sound he breathed , I woke him up. I'm very scared. Tanie now is stable, eccept the breath, eyelids still r swollen both side.

[Harivxx]

Does anyone here have Dr. Emerson's email/contacs ? Please give me please. I want to ask her , she may not have time to answer but I still want to try. Or does anyone know a specialist can treat odontoma in Vietnam please tell me, please. Every night I wake up and touch Tanie to check him if he breathes ok or stops. Sometime when he sleep, I did not listen the sound he breathed , I woke him up. I'm very scared. Tanie still stable, except breathing. his eyelids still swollen both side right left. Breathing sound when he open mounth is still a duck's sound.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Does anyone here have Dr. Emerson's email/contacs ? Please give me please. I want to ask her , she may not have time to answer but I still want to try. Or does anyone know a specialist can treat odontoma in Vietnam please tell me, please. Every night I wake up and touch Tanie to check him if he breathes ok or stops. Sometime when he sleep, I did not listen the sound he breathed , I woke him up. I'm very scared. Tanie still stable, except breathing. his eyelids still swollen both side right left. Breathing sound when he open mounth is still a duck's sound.

This is breaking my heart Harivxx!
Here is a contact link to Revenwood Veterinary Clinic in Orange, Florida. This is where Dr. Alicia Emerson practices. It is now Thursday, 11:00 pm EST in Florida. I will paste the contact information and office hours at the Revenwood clinic below.

*I do not know whether or not, Dr. Emerson is there tomorrow or Saturday. I would suggest trying to DIRECTLY contact Dr. Emerson by phone tomorrow morning if that is at all possible for you! Explain to the person who answers that you are Physician in Vietnam and you have a pet Squirrel that you love very much and he is having some serious breathing problems most likely secondary to dental pathology. Hopefully that will help make it more likely for you to speak with Dr. E! I would recommend against just sending an email as they may not look at the emails immediately or even this week although sending an email along with making other attempts at contact sounds like an optimal approach!*

Contact Information link from the Revenwood Website: https://ravenwoodvet.net/contact/

Phone Number & email: (386) 788–1550
email: frontdesk@ravenwoodvet.net
Fax: (386) 756–8970

Office Hours:

Monday: 7:00am - 7:00pm

Tuesday: 7:00am - 7:00pm

Wednesday: 7:00am - 7:00pm

Thursday: 7:00am - 7:00pm

Friday: 7:00am - 6:00pm

Saturday: 7:00am - 5:00pm

Sunday: Closed

*Please clarify; did you start Tanie on plain Amoxicillin or did you start Augmentin (Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate)? If you are using plain Amoxicillin it is doubtful that any benefit will be derived from this when treating an infection originating from oral or dental pathology. IF you are using plain amoxicillin; I would strongly recommend discontinuing the amoxicillin and immediately begin using the Augmentin that you mentioned in a recent post that you had available!*

*Please Harivxx; do NOT be tempted to perform the surgery yourself! Removing an incisor from a Squirrel may seem simple but it is MAJOR surgery for a Squirrel. For one thing, a portion of the jaw must usually be removed as a preliminary procedure because attempts to simply extract the tooth will inevitably fracture the jaw if the jaw itself is not "prepared" properly beforehand to facilitate the extraction. The odontoma surgery also involves far more than just pulling out a tooth anyway. Also, the risks for an adverse outcome or death are magnified greatly if you are also unfamiliar with use of anesthesia on Squirrels and the monitoring of the Squirrel's status while under anesthesia or sedation! Hopefully you can get some advice from Dr. Emerson. I also hope that someone may be able to help you find someone in Vietnam who is familiar with these surgical procedures on Squirrels or small rodents as well as being familiar the use of anesthetic agents on these animals.*

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Harivxx]

This is breaking my heart Harivxx!
Here is a contact link to Revenwood Veterinary Clinic in Orange, Florida. This is where Dr. Alicia Emerson practices. It is now Thursday, 11:00 pm EST in Florida. I will paste the contact information and office hours at the Revenwood clinic below.

*I do not know whether or not, Dr. Emerson is there tomorrow or Saturday. I would suggest trying to DIRECTLY contact Dr. Emerson by phone tomorrow morning if that is at all possible for you! Explain to the person who answers that you are Physician in Vietnam and you have a pet Squirrel that you love very much and he is having some serious breathing problems most likely secondary to dental pathology. Hopefully that will help make it more likely for you to speak with Dr. E! I would recommend against just sending an email as they may not look at the emails immediately or even this week although sending an email along with making other attempts at contact sounds like an optimal approach!*

Contact Information link from the Revenwood Website: https://ravenwoodvet.net/contact/

Phone Number & email: (386) 788–1550
email: frontdesk@ravenwoodvet.net
Fax: (386) 756–8970

Office Hours:

Monday: 7:00am - 7:00pm

Tuesday: 7:00am - 7:00pm

Wednesday: 7:00am - 7:00pm

Thursday: 7:00am - 7:00pm

Friday: 7:00am - 6:00pm

Saturday: 7:00am - 5:00pm

Sunday: Closed

*Please clarify; did you start Tanie on plain Amoxicillin or did you start Augmentin (Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate)? If you are using plain Amoxicillin it is doubtful that any benefit will be derived from this when treating an infection originating from oral or dental pathology. IF you are using plain amoxicillin; I would strongly recommend discontinuing the amoxicillin and immediately begin using the Augmentin that you mentioned in a recent post that you had available!*

*Please Harivxx; do NOT be tempted to perform the surgery yourself! Removing an incisor from a Squirrel may seem simple but it is MAJOR surgery for a Squirrel. For one thing, a portion of the jaw must usually be removed as a preliminary procedure because attempts to simply extract the tooth will inevitably fracture the jaw if the jaw itself is not "prepared" properly beforehand to facilitate the extraction. The odontoma surgery also involves far more than just pulling out a tooth anyway. Also, the risks for an adverse outcome or death are magnified greatly if you are also unfamiliar with use of anesthesia on Squirrels and the monitoring of the Squirrel's status while under anesthesia or sedation! Hopefully you can get some advice from Dr. Emerson. I also hope that someone may be able to help you find someone in Vietnam who is familiar with these surgical procedures on Squirrels or small rodents as well as being familiar the use of anesthetic agents on these animals.*

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Thank you so much for your replying and your infomation .
I'm using Augmentin. I'm a surgeon, not a dentist, I dont have experience for removing teeth. I will not do the surgery because of the high risk. I'm looking for a dentist to do that. But before that need to give a correct diagnosis with X Ray, but with condition of Tanie right now it's very hard to do procedure without sedation.

[Charley Chuckles]

As Samthesquirrel said odatoma surgery is very tricky, if it's upper incisors a port ( hole) is made to remove the odatoma and then the rest of the tooth is pulled out through the mouth. Antibiotic drops are put in the port daily until it closes up usually in about a week or two. If it's lower incisors it's even more difficult and yes many times the jaw will break during the removal of the odatoma and the incisors however the jaw heals with time antibiotics and pain meds.
I pray you can get some advice from Dr Emerson she is awesome and has done odatoma surgery on my boy👍

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

But before that need to give a correct diagnosis with X Ray, but with condition of Tanie right now it's very hard to do procedure without sedation.

Hello again Hrivxx: This was a suggestion I made in a prior post: "Is it possible for you to hold Tanie as still as possible while you wear a radiation apron and just place Tanie over the cassette and let the tech now when she has relaxed and have the tech take the x-ray right at that moment. You could do this same from a couple different angles and shoot the films right at a moment when Tanie has become still. Just a thought!"
Do you think this might be feasible.

Trained Veterinary professionals can many time safely utilize Isoflurane (or similar) to "gas down" an animal for sedation without reaching a full anesthetic state but this has inherent risk that is vastly magnified when performed by someone, even a medical professions; who does not have training and supervised experience utilizing inhaled anesthetic agents for animal procedures. There was an article that I vaguely remember fro 2013 that showed that anesthesia related or associated death and complication animals is many times more common than with humans. This is obviously multifactorial but the bottom line is that just as in human medicine, there are inherent risks to anesthesia but these are minimized in developed countries because anesthesia is administered by specialists and the patient is closely monitored in perioperative/perianesthesia time-frame.

I hope that you are able to consult with Dr. Emerson today!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CritterMom]

As far as finding vets in Vietnam, what I would do is establish what sort of similar pets are commonly kept there. Do people keep rabbits as pets? They have similarly complicated teeth and require dental work regularly. Here in the US, bunnies are popular as pets - enough for there to be a good financial reason for a vet to specialize on them and similar (here we also have things like prairie dogs). If I had a squirrel with tooth issues I would look for a bunny vet that does teeth...

[Harivxx]

As far as finding vets in Vietnam, what I would do is establish what sort of similar pets are commonly kept there. Do people keep rabbits as pets? They have similarly complicated teeth and require dental work regularly. Here in the US, bunnies are popular as pets - enough for there to be a good financial reason for a vet to specialize on them and similar (here we also have things like prairie dogs). If I had a squirrel with tooth issues I would look for a bunny vet that does teeth...


The doctor I mentioned above - was introduced by the receptionist (who booked me an appointment) as an expert on small animals squirrels, rabbits, porcupines. after I met her I was disappointed. I don't know if she often extracts rabbit teeth. After I walked out of her room, the next patient came to her was a cat. The place I brought Tanie to was a clinic system called "Animal doctor International" in Ho Chi Minh City. According to the advertisement, the veterinarian here graduated from veterinary universities in the UK, Canada, ..., Western countries with high quanlifications. So I was very disappointed when she asked me "why have to remove squirrel's teeth". and said that X-rays could not be taken because anesthesia could make death. I told her I still wanted the X-ray, and she agreed. but then I canceled the appointment because I didn't trust her.

[Harivxx]

Hello again Hrivxx: This was a suggestion I made in a prior post: "Is it possible for you to hold Tanie as still as possible while you wear a radiation apron and just place Tanie over the cassette and let the tech now when she has relaxed and have the tech take the x-ray right at that moment. You could do this same from a couple different angles and shoot the films right at a moment when Tanie has become still. Just a thought!"
Do you think this might be feasible.

Trained Veterinary professionals can many time safely utilize Isoflurane (or similar) to "gas down" an animal for sedation without reaching a full anesthetic state but this has inherent risk that is vastly magnified when performed by someone, even a medical professions; who does not have training and supervised experience utilizing inhaled anesthetic agents for animal procedures. There was an article that I vaguely remember fro 2013 that showed that anesthesia related or associated death and complication animals is many times more common than with humans. This is obviously multifactorial but the bottom line is that just as in human medicine, there are inherent risks to anesthesia but these are minimized in developed countries because anesthesia is administered by specialists and the patient is closely monitored in perioperative/perianesthesia time-frame.

I hope that you are able to consult with Dr. Emerson today!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Ok. Thank you. I will suggest the tech like that. Last time I ask the Vet if I hold Tanie as you said, but the vet rejected because there's no radiation apron for wearing.

[Harivxx]

My babi Tanie had taken X Ray without sedation. The left upper incisor was broken. because the root of the tooth has rotted . so the vet pulled it out because it was wobbly. waiting a date to do surgery to extract both teeth. maybe this weekend or early next week. they gave me enrofloxacin to give Tanie for 5 days before surgery. This is in another animal clinic.

[Charley Chuckles]

Glad you were able to find a vet to help you👍
What a sweetheart Tanie is❤️

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

My babi Tanie had taken X Ray without sedation. The left upper incisor was broken. because the root of the tooth has rotted . so the vet pulled it out because it was wobbly. waiting a date to do surgery to extract both teeth. maybe this weekend or early next week. they gave me enrofloxacin to give Tanie for 5 days before surgery. This is in another animal clinic.

Hi Harivxx:
I'm so glad that you were able to obtain the radiographs and that we were able to see your Tanie the Squirrel! I looked at the images of Tanie's teeth and although I am not a dentist or a Veterinarian; I do have some concerns about the current working diagnosis. Yes, there can be decay or even "rot" if you think of this as being extensive decay but this is not a process where calcium or other radiopaque tooth material is deposited; it is where the tooth itself loses material and on a radiograph, the decay appears dark (radiolucency), not light. The density at the base of Tanie's upper incisor not only is very dense (a radiopacity), it has the appearance of a mass. Further, this mass has the characteristics of an odontoma (which pathologically is considered to be a particular form of hamartoma which is a non-cancerous tumor made up of normal but disorganized and overgrowing dental tissues) although there are other possibilities! Were you able to contact Dr. Emerson for a consultation. I would strongly recommend trying to do so, Harivxx! You now have high quality radiographs that you email to her. Please try! If she recommends simple extraction as a means for Tanie's dental issues to resolve, I would trust her opinion without question. I would just recommend getting another opinion and while Dr. Emerson is obviously very far away; at least a consultation with her will not require more than phone and/or email and sending the radiographs to her electronically. I am heading for work now.
Best regards to you and Tanie!
SamtheSquirrel

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi Harivxx:
How is Tanie doing?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Harivxx]

Gods bless me and my son , Dr.Alicia and her assistant decided to come to Vietnam to do operation for Tanie. I want to cry because happy. Thank you you here all . And Dr. Alicia and her assitant.

[island rehabber]

:bliss Sometimes, miracles DO happen. Especially when angels on earth are involved. CM916

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Gods bless me and my son , Dr.Alicia and her assistant decided to come to Vietnam to do operation for Tanie. I want to cry because happy. Thank you you here all . And Dr. Alicia and her assitant.

This is wonderful news Harivxx! I'm glad you were able to get in touch with Dr. E but I would never have dreamed that she would be coming to Viernam! When was the surgery and how is Tanie doing?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Tashahaven]

That is AMAZING news! What a wonderful surprise! I am soo grateful for you. What an amazing person she is. Wow!