bird banquet mineral block [Archive]

Diggie's Friend

09-14-2022, 04:31 PM

If in addition to a positive whole diet ratio for Calcium to Phosphorus you include, a good mineral source like, " Manu" mineral stone without flavors, dyes, or seeds of any kind, is a good option. The data for percentages of the minerals is on the back of the package. The stone comes attached to a bolt to secure it through the inside of the cage on the outside. Other than for raising a little of juvenile squirrels, the smaller stone is fine; our girl never used up hers in five years. Our girl loved her, "Manu" mineral stone"; after she finished her meal, just like clockwork, she would go straight for the stone to get a few scraps with her incisors. Then she went for her water bottle to get a long drink, did her business, and then to her nest for a nap. She lived 11 1/2 years.

https://www.petsupermarket.com/bird/supplies/perches-toys/perches-swings-ladders/manu-mineral-rose-block/636824001.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7bqGkZyV-gIVdhmtBh2gFgUTEAQYAyABEgK3DvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.dsAmazon.com also carries this product.

Dinkbradders

09-14-2022, 05:47 PM

SamtheSquirrel2018

09-14-2022, 09:12 PM

Thanks. I assume that the esbilac has good calcium for them (and I mix in full fat yoghurt and a drop of cream) and the rodent block must have calcium too, when they start eating it, but just to be on the safe side, what's the best way to make sure they are getting the correct calcium amounts?

I see this MBD spoken about a lot and want to head off any problems for these little guys. We will probably only have them another month or so before setting them out in the forest but even then I intend to try to offer a base for them with fresh salad and veggies every day, should they need it.

I bought the mineral block for this purpose but would hate them to overdo it (though they aren't at the nibbling too much stage yet) I wonder if calcium carb crushed up in their milk would be a better option?

We keep them in a dark wine room and bring them out for playtime in filtered light once a day so hoping that is also correct! (its the safest room in the house with dogs and a cat)

Hi Dinkbradders:
Please consider getting your Squirrels to a reputable Rehabber ASAP. Members of The Squirrel Board can help you find a trusted Rehabber! I know that you care about these Little Ones but I have some major concerns about how things appear. For one thing, the babies should NOT be kept in the dark! I know that you let them out for "playtime once a day" but that is not anything close to exposure to normal diurnal variations (they need to be exposed to normal and natural light and dark cycles!)! Further, a Squirrel raised in or acclimated to captivity can NEVER be simply "set out in the forest!" They must get accustomed to the outdoors and and the wild and have their normal instincts rekindled in a process called a "Soft Release." This is done using a specially designed cage and with active care and protection that still minimizes interaction with humans and their pets. If a Squirrel is simply "Hard Released" (let go) it will invariably starve, die from exposure to the elements or be killed or maimed by a predator! They must "learn" how to live in the wild! Raising a baby Squirrel is very rewarding but it must be done with dedication, knowledge, patience and conscientious planning. It requires a considerable amount of time and plus investments for food and care. All your efforts and as well the lives of your Squirrels will be lost if you simply let them go!

Please upload photos of your Squirrels and their weights to get some idea as to their ages. What are your Squirrels living quarters (a cage, and a box or whatever). Also please go now to the Henry's Pets Website to get some very good information on Squirrel Care for you to use while the Squirrel parent! (https://www.henryspets.com/1-baby-squirrel-care-guide/) There is also a tremendous amount of information on TSB but the Henry's guide is great because the basics and essentials are all distilled down in one place and quite complete and easy to understand!

Hopefully, we can get your Squirrels to a trusted Rehabber who will continue to raise your Squirrels and complete the necessary Soft-Release process.

Thanks for you understanding and for your concerns about your Squirrels! Squirrels are wonderful and delightful little creatures and we all share a love for them here on TSB!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Diggie's Friend

09-14-2022, 10:56 PM

As to your question; the mineral stone, should not be introduced prior to the weaning process begins. 6 weeks is too early to introduce the mineral block.

I agree that it would be in the best interest of the squirrels for you to locate a rehabber who is adept at taking nursing young through weaning to release. It takes allot of time to support this process and also a fair investment in cash to support the building of a safe and secure release cage.

TubeDriver

09-15-2022, 08:38 AM

The puppy formula that seems to work best is powdered (not liquid) Esbilac or Fox Valley 20/50. This is really all they need till they start to wean themselves off formula. Don't wean them off yourself, let them continue to take formula for as long as they want it. You can start making a quality rodent block available to them before they wean themselves. They will just shred it at first and make a big mess of crumbs but they will gradually start to eat more and more block and will stop taking formula when you offer it. Quality rodent block like Henrys, Mazuri, Teklad is CRITICAL to their overall health and development and to preventing MBD. Please avoid giving seeds, peanuts, lots of fruit etc, it seems counterintuitive but nuts are generally like fast food for a captive squirrel and will lead to MBD (it is different for outdoor squirrels which have access to a wide variety of naturally occurring foods). Here is a chart of what captive squirrels need after they transition over to solid foods:

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels

Since you are in Ca, you probably don't have to worry about overwintering. We typically start the soft-release process at about 15-16 weeks old. This soft-release process is the method that gives your little ones the best chance of surviving out there. They don't have the advantage of a mom squirrel who can teach them what to eat, how to build a nest, escape predators etc, so just dropping off your babies in a nice, wooded area will be incredibly hard on them and they may well not survive. The soft-release process allows them to become gradually acclimated to outdoor temps, sounds and the general environment and trees nearby. If your location is not good or for some reason you can do a soft-release, it would be better to find a rehabber who can take then and provide a soft-release. Here is a link which details how to do a soft-release:

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?41071-SOFT-RELEASE-The-How-to-Sticky

Can you post up photos of your little ones? And please don't hesitate to ask questions! Good luck with your little ones.

Lastly for now, get a kitchen scale that measures in grams. Keep a daily or every other day log if what your squirrels weigh. They should be continuously gaining weight. A squirrel that is not gaining weight or worse, loosing weight, is a red flag that something is very wrong.

Hi, should I see if they want to gnaw at one of these mineral blocks for birds (that have calcium)? I got a fruit one and veggie one as well as kaytee rat/mouse block.

They are both on puppy formula 4-5 times a day and are approx 6-7 weeks old.

Thx Chris

Dinkbradders

09-15-2022, 09:14 AM

Um! I was never intending to just release them. (and did put in one of my posts that I would be asking advice or reading though release advice posts when the time comes) We have a large forest and trees close to the house where we can continue to feed them and a stable with a unit high enough for safety from predators where we can put out their cage to get them used to being outdoors when they are ready but I haven't looked into all that completely as still at the feeding and keeping them alive stage.

They were kept in the garage in a large cage (about the size of my arms extended) but we had people over so put them in the wine room and have since put them back in the garage. We thought the wine room TOO dark so now they have normal light and a darkened box in the cage.

Not sure what I put that appeared I would just let them go but I know this would never work. The society here are overrun by baby squirrels right now so just trying to do my best which I why I posted so much. They are putting on weight nicely, Ash was 80g and now 112g and Ozzy was 90g and now 115g. Think they are about 6/7 weeks old

I do need help with one though who is ravenous all the time and I worry about him aspirating. I go very slowly with a 1cc oring syringe and put my fingers over the end to stop him putting the entire tip in his mouth but he's like a raptor. Wondering if I should introduce scrambled egg or mashed avocado (they have rodent blocks but as yet aren't interested. I feed with the syringe pointing up but he wiggles out of my daughters hands to get as much as he can. Ash is more tolerant and holds the end nicely and stops for breaks.

Will post pics soon and will be straight to rehab if I can't handle it. I have done this with my mum years and years ago but was a kid so its coming back slowly.

Hi Dinkbradders:
Please consider getting your Squirrels to a reputable Rehabber ASAP. Members of The Squirrel Board can help you find a trusted Rehabber! I know that you care about these Little Ones but I have some major concerns about how things appear. For one thing, the babies should NOT be kept in the dark! I know that you let them out for "playtime once a day" but that is not anything close to exposure to normal diurnal variations (they need to be exposed to normal and natural light and dark cycles!)! Further, a Squirrel raised in or acclimated to captivity can NEVER be simply "set out in the forest!" They must get accustomed to the outdoors and and the wild and have their normal instincts rekindled in a process called a "Soft Release." This is done using a specially designed cage and with active care and protection that still minimizes interaction with humans and their pets. If a Squirrel is simply "Hard Released" (let go) it will invariably starve, die from exposure to the elements or be killed or maimed by a predator! They must "learn" how to live in the wild! Raising a baby Squirrel is very rewarding but it must be done with dedication, knowledge, patience and conscientious planning. It requires a considerable amount of time and plus investments for food and care. All your efforts and as well the lives of your Squirrels will be lost if you simply let them go!

Please upload photos of your Squirrels and their weights to get some idea as to their ages. What are your Squirrels living quarters (a cage, and a box or whatever). Also please go now to the Henry's Pets Website to get some very good information on Squirrel Care for you to use while the Squirrel parent! (https://www.henryspets.com/1-baby-squirrel-care-guide/) There is also a tremendous amount of information on TSB but the Henry's guide is great because the basics and essentials are all distilled down in one place and quite complete and easy to understand!

Hopefully, we can get your Squirrels to a trusted Rehabber who will continue to raise your Squirrels and complete the necessary Soft-Release process.

Thanks for you understanding and for your concerns about your Squirrels! Squirrels are wonderful and delightful little creatures and we all share a love for them here on TSB!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Dinkbradders

09-15-2022, 09:43 AM

Oh and I got them on the esbilac proper powder and am currently doing one tbs to 3 water with a little yoghurt and egg yolk (pinch of the human goats milk powder whilst they transition). Giving 6-7 CC per feeding 4 to 5 times a day.

I will def look at the block recipe as they aren't interested in the kaytee block yet (is this one not nutritious enough?)

Thanks

p.s. only had them 4 days

The puppy formula that seems to work best is powdered (not liquid) Esbilac or Fox Valley 20/50. This is really all they need till they start to wean themselves off formula. Don't wean them off yourself, let them continue to take formula for as long as they want it. You can start making a quality rodent block available to them before they wean themselves. They will just shred it at first and make a big mess of crumbs but they will gradually start to eat more and more block and will stop taking formula when you offer it. Quality rodent block like Henrys, Mazuri, Teklad is CRITICAL to their overall health and development and to preventing MBD. Please avoid giving seeds, peanuts, lots of fruit etc, it seems counterintuitive but nuts are generally like fast food for a captive squirrel and will lead to MBD (it is different for outdoor squirrels which have access to a wide variety of naturally occurring foods). Here is a chart of what captive squirrels need after they transition over to solid foods:

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels

Since you are in Ca, you probably don't have to worry about overwintering. We typically start the soft-release process at about 15-16 weeks old. This soft-release process is the method that gives your little ones the best chance of surviving out there. They don't have the advantage of a mom squirrel who can teach them what to eat, how to build a nest, escape predators etc, so just dropping off your babies in a nice, wooded area will be incredibly hard on them and they may well not survive. The soft-release process allows them to become gradually acclimated to outdoor temps, sounds and the general environment and trees nearby. If your location is not good or for some reason you can do a soft-release, it would be better to find a rehabber who can take then and provide a soft-release. Here is a link which details how to do a soft-release:

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?41071-SOFT-RELEASE-The-How-to-Sticky

Can you post up photos of your little ones? And please don't hesitate to ask questions! Good luck with your little ones.

Lastly for now, get a kitchen scale that measures in grams. Keep a daily or every other day log if what your squirrels weigh. They should be continuously gaining weight. A squirrel that is not gaining weight or worse, loosing weight, is a red flag that something is very wrong.

TubeDriver

09-15-2022, 10:45 AM

Some are really strong feeders and will suck the formula right out of the syringe. Try controlling the flow by maintaining control of the plunger movement. You can get the plunger between a finger and your palm and prevent them from going too fast.

Having light in the room and also a dark box to go into is good.

Um! I was never intending to just release them. (and did put in one of my posts that I would be asking advice or reading though release advice posts when the time comes) We have a large forest and trees close to the house where we can continue to feed them and a stable with a unit high enough for safety from predators where we can put out their cage to get them used to being outdoors when they are ready but I haven't looked into all that completely as still at the feeding and keeping them alive stage.

They were kept in the garage in a large cage (about the size of my arms extended) but we had people over so put them in the wine room and have since put them back in the garage. We thought the wine room TOO dark so now they have normal light and a darkened box in the cage.

Not sure what I put that appeared I would just let them go but I know this would never work. The society here are overrun by baby squirrels right now so just trying to do my best which I why I posted so much. They are putting on weight nicely, Ash was 80g and now 112g and Ozzy was 90g and now 115g. Think they are about 6/7 weeks old

I do need help with one though who is ravenous all the time and I worry about him aspirating. I go very slowly with a 1cc oring syringe and put my fingers over the end to stop him putting the entire tip in his mouth but he's like a raptor. Wondering if I should introduce scrambled egg or mashed avocado (they have rodent blocks but as yet aren't interested. I feed with the syringe pointing up but he wiggles out of my daughters hands to get as much as he can. Ash is more tolerant and holds the end nicely and stops for breaks.

Will post pics soon and will be straight to rehab if I can't handle it. I have done this with my mum years and years ago but was a kid so its coming back slowly.

TubeDriver

09-15-2022, 10:52 AM

Try using 1 spoon powdered Exbilac to two spoons of warm water. That ratio works really well. Most people don't add the egg yolk, the yoghurt and goat milk is probably fine but really not needed. As long as they are gaining weight, have good, solid, regular poops, then things are good! The Kaytee block is generally not considered very good, the Ca/Phos ratio is off. There are some homemade block recipes on this site that are decent. In general, block is not the tastiest thing for them but they will eat it if they are not also given tasty junk food at the same time. So no nuts or other treats until they are eating block regularly.

Oh and I got them on the esbilac proper powder and am currently doing one tbs to 3 water with a little yoghurt and egg yolk (pinch of the human goats milk powder whilst they transition). Giving 6-7 CC per feeding 4 to 5 times a day.

I will def look at the block recipe as they aren't interested in the kaytee block yet (is this one not nutritious enough?)

Thanks

p.s. only had them 4 days

Dinkbradders

09-15-2022, 11:16 AM

Thanks so much yes I think I will do the 1 to 2 ratio today but I was transitioning from the goats milk recipe, so I was a little bit worried they wouldn't be able to tolerate the 2 to 1 straight away. We have chickens that lay so I wondered if the fresh egg yolk might be beneficial and it's only a pinch but will stop in anyone thinks harmful.

What do you think about the scrambled egg and mashed avocado, too soon? With Ozzie being the little raptor I wondered if he would benefit from a slightly fuller tummy between formula feedings

Thankfully I read on this forum that nuts and seeds are not be given (unless a treat once a day when they are older) because of the high phosphorus versus calcium thing (who knew!!) And read a few stories, one about a woman feeding only nuts and the poor squirrel couldn't move his back legs which was heartbreaking (probably why I was asking about the calcium issue, if I should be giving additional calcium with the formula just in case)

I read no cashew nuts no sunflower seeds and pinenuts which is good to know but was a little bit confused about peanuts because people say don't give them peanuts because of xylitol but you can give peanut butter as a treat?? (this last paragraph is only for when they are older and we have soft released successfully)

TubeDriver

09-15-2022, 01:15 PM

Since they are both in the ~100g range (5-6 weeks old), all they need right now is formula. I would not add scrambled eggs or anything else, they just don't need it and it could cause GI issues. In the wild, all they would be getting at this age is mother's milk. In a week or two, I would start to make rodent block available. Still continue with the formula! I would avoid all nuts until they are regularly eating block. Once they are regularly eating block and veggies, you can give them the occasional treat. Unsalted almonds are the best type of nut to give but that should not be for a while yet.

Thanks so much yes I think I will do the 1 to 2 ratio today but I was transitioning from the goats milk recipe, so I was a little bit worried they wouldn't be able to tolerate the 2 to 1 straight away. We have chickens that lay so I wondered if the fresh egg yolk might be beneficial and it's only a pinch but will stop in anyone thinks harmful.

What do you think about the scrambled egg and mashed avocado, too soon? With Ozzie being the little raptor I wondered if he would benefit from a slightly fuller tummy between formula feedings

Thankfully I read on this forum that nuts and seeds are not be given (unless a treat once a day when they are older) because of the high phosphorus versus calcium thing (who knew!!) And read a few stories, one about a woman feeding only nuts and the poor squirrel couldn't move his back legs which was heartbreaking (probably why I was asking about the calcium issue, if I should be giving additional calcium with the formula just in case)

I read no cashew nuts no sunflower seeds and pinenuts which is good to know but was a little bit confused about peanuts because people say don't give them peanuts because of xylitol but you can give peanut butter as a treat?? (this last paragraph is only for when they are older and we have soft released successfully)

Dinkbradders

09-15-2022, 01:41 PM

[Sorry one last question, with the raptor feeding from Ozzie do you think it would be beneficial if I fed smaller amounts more frequently Sometimes so that he's not so desperate after the four hour mark? I could keep The accurate cc feedings over the two feedings still! Currently I put my fingers over the end of the syringe to limit the amount he can put in his mouth as he'd probably swallow the whole thing in his desperation to get milk faster. I'll post a few pictures when I'm home as can't seem to upload phone pictures on here

Oh last thing is that I have these 1 cc O-ring syringes but only have two so is there a better place to order them from as they are out of stock on Henry's. Are Amazon ones OK? As I have been to three different vets Who won't give me any because I don't have a pet there and Walgreens Only has larger horrible ones.

=TubeDriver;1351412]Since they are both in the ~100g range (5-6 weeks old), all they need right now is formula. I would not add scrambled eggs or anything else, they just don't need it and it could cause GI issues. In the wild, all they would be getting at this age is mother's milk. In a week or two, I would start to make rodent block available. Still continue with the formula! I would avoid all nuts until they are regularly eating block. Once they are regularly eating block and veggies, you can give them the occasional treat. Unsalted almonds are the best type of nut to give but that should not be for a while yet.[/QUOTE]

Dinkbradders

09-15-2022, 03:46 PM

A few pics of their first day. I will post a pic of the cage we use soon

SamtheSquirrel2018

09-15-2022, 04:18 PM

A few pics of their first day. I will post a pic of the cage we use soon

What cute little Squirrels! Thank you so much for your further posts and your obvious interest in caring for these babies! I would have thanked you earlier but I was at work and had limited internet access. Congratulations on becoming a Squirreler!! Also, thanks for being able to recognize when you need to ask questions and seek advice and your willingness to put all to work in care and of your Squirrels! They are lucky to have such a conscientious care-giver! I do apologize if I sounded gruff in my earlier post to you but I did not mean to come across that way. I just had some concerns and it was probably my misinterpretation of your early posts but I have no concerns remaining and am enthusiastically awaiting further updates from you about your Squirrels! Have you named your Little Ones?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Dinkbradders

09-15-2022, 06:21 PM

No worries, I appreciate you guys noticing when a novice might be hurting (killing with kindness) these poor babies. Thank Goodness for the internet and sites like these, as my first reaction was "I wonder if we have any non salted nuts anywhere". Luckily I didn't but had a bit of apple which the darker one took immediately and suckled on. I then googled the formula and care guides and found the interim goats milk one and luckily had a brand new can (which I bought for my 14 year old soul mate kitty that died of lymphoma last month). Luckily 'again' I had two 1cc syringes for my kitty, that we never got around to using and then found the advice, online here, to only use that syringe (as my husband produced a huge one that he uses to lube his bikes that I immediately thought would kill them) yikes!!!.

So my daughter named the black one Ozzy after Ozzy Osborne as he is quite cheeky and friendly and acts a bit like a heavy metal rocker when we feed him and then she named the gray one Ash, who is a bit more timid and reserved. Ozzy was the first I found. We had a triple digit heat wave all week and I was cleaning the car and he was sitting on my husbands trials bike wheel chewing the spokes!!!!! We gave him some water and a tiny piece of apple and then put him back outside in a clearing whilst he shouted (chirped) for his mum. Sadly he just sat there chirping and then made his way back to the bike in the garage, so we put him in a box with blankets and gave him more water and he fell fast asleep.
I went to get the kids from school and they were very excited to see the squirrel but as they were getting out of the car we heard chirping elsewhere and then this little grey squirrel came barreling towards us and lay exhausted on the ground. He wouldn't take any water, right then, so we put him with his (maybe) brother and they cuddled up and slept for hours. My daughter and I walked the entire area (as must be 12 trees where we found them both) but even with the binoculars we couldn't find any visible nest or tree hole, so we played baby squirrel noises for 20 mins but nothing? I don't think they are ground squirrels but one did run from under a bush with leaves?

If anyone on this site is from the Santa Cruz Mountains in CA then they can def contact me, I did contact the wildlife place locally but she sounded stressed saying how many babies were being brought in because of the heatwave but would have to take them as law, which didn't fill me with confidence that they would be cared for enough so thought seeing as I have the time, space, resources and help from this amazing website then I would do what I could until I can't (if we run into problems) or when we can release them back into the trees they fell from, and hopefully they will find their family. I will def be reading the tips and procedures for that later but we have done it for chicks and know it can be a difficult transition, which takes time and patience.

I do have a question that just came up. We put them in the wine room, when my husband had some trials bike guys over as too noisy and it was pretty warm in there, but they are now back in the garage. It has much better lighting but today it's 70' in there. They have a good sized shoe box and 2 fleece blankets to snuggle into together and then I cover with a fur bag liner to make it dark but will they need additional heat? I can get a heat pad but do have a heat lamp we used to use for breeding chicks but feel they are probably quite snug under all their covers (but can take a thermometer to check)

Many thanks to you all again, these little guys have my heart already and I feel so blessed to return help to Mother Nature for once.

Chris

What cute little Squirrels! Thank you so much for your further posts and your obvious interest in caring for these babies! I would have thanked you earlier but I was at work and had limited internet access. Congratulations on becoming a Squirreler!! Also, thanks for being able to recognize when you need to ask questions and seek advice and your willingness to put all to work in care and of your Squirrels! They are lucky to have such a conscientious care-giver! I do apologize if I sounded gruff in my earlier post to you but I did not mean to come across that way. I just had some concerns and it was probably my misinterpretation of your early posts but I have no concerns remaining and am enthusiastically awaiting further updates from you about your Squirrels! Have you named your Little Ones?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

SamtheSquirrel2018

09-15-2022, 10:47 PM

I do have a question that just came up. We put them in the wine room, when my husband had some trials bike guys over as too noisy and it was pretty warm in there, but they are now back in the garage. It has much better lighting but today it's 70' in there. They have a good sized shoe box and 2 fleece blankets to snuggle into together and then I cover with a fur bag liner to make it dark but will they need additional heat? I can get a heat pad but do have a heat lamp we used to use for breeding chicks but feel they are probably quite snug under all their covers (but can take a thermometer to check)

When you say a shoe box, do mean a real cardboard shoe box or is this a plastic type box? If I might make another referral to Henry's website as they have a photo of a readily available plastic container that is ideal. Most all of us use these. (https://henryspets.com/1-baby-squirrel-care-guide/) They are better than shoe boxes or cardboard boxes. The cardboard boxes usually become damp and do not hold heat well and can easily be chewed through. One advantage of using a safe, but always on heat blanket is that you can put this under half of the plastic box (on a low setting, please) and the Squirrels can move around as needed to get the degree of heat they want or even move off the heat if they desire. The chick heat lamps can get quite hot, they do not permit the Squirrels to regulate their own heating as can be done by using a plastic box with half its bottom placed over an always-on heating pad set on low and they prevent the Squirrels from experiencing normal day and night cycles. By the way, don't place the heating pad inside the box! All that being said, by the time a baby Squirrels eyes are open and they have fur, they are able to regulate their body temperature and an ambient temperature of 70 degrees is not bitter cold by any stretch of the imagination but it might still be nice to have the heating pad available under the plastic box as described if you Little Ones want some extra comfort.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Dinkbradders

09-17-2022, 06:29 PM

Thanks, I swapped it out for a plastic one with larger rounded edges to deter chewing.

Everything is going great! Ozzy is putting weight on like a champ and takes his 8/9cc each feeding. He is up from 100g to 150g in nearly a week.

Ash will take his first 8cc in the morning but isn't as hungry by lunch and will refuse after about 3cc. Yesterday he had a good 8cc evening feed but was back to only 3 on his final feeding before bed? so not sure if you guys have similar patterns going on with some of your squirrels (he's the lighter colored one) He has still gone from 80g to 120g so will just keep track.

Are there any pics on here of cage examples? They are usually pretty sleepy after feeds still but around lunch they like to explore a bit more. Ash climbs around the cage wire sometimes when we catch him on camera. So maybe its a little soon but I put in a hammock (not too high) and it's over their bed so soft landing should they fall, a tunnel made from a fleece dressing gown sleeve and a tree limb which is zip tied to the cage for them to climb up to the hammock.
I also put in a sturdy branch across the cage and a little natural wood shelf at one end (I put a couple of rodent block up there but they aren't interested in them yet) with a rosemary branch leading up and a couple of others zig zagging the corner of the cage (all zip tied on with plastic ties but would these be better metal?). I have room to hang toys eventually when they are playing more (I know to remove any stuffing and add fleece) and I could get some hanging wooden blocks eventually.

Does this all need sterilizing or just wiping down as most is just from the forest floor (though I took off any lichen and moldy looking stuff). I have some eco flakes for animals (no dust) on the cage floor and have a plastic container for poop (though not assuming they will use it as the eco flakes soak everything up well but you never know) and I added a small pine cone, a few sticks and leaves and some of those annoying pine tree needles though might remove those (those assume they won't try building nests yet lol)

Just wanted to run all this by someone, make sure its all correct and if you have advice about any of it. Again they are sleepyheads but know it won't be long before they are awake more. We will be starting construction on a nice outdoor larger cage in the next month or so but this is just for their baby time.

When you say a shoe box, do mean a real cardboard shoe box or is this a plastic type box? If I might make another referral to Henry's website as they have a photo of a readily available plastic container that is ideal. Most all of us use these. (https://henryspets.com/1-baby-squirrel-care-guide/) They are better than shoe boxes or cardboard boxes. The cardboard boxes usually become damp and do not hold heat well and can easily be chewed through. One advantage of using a safe, but always on heat blanket is that you can put this under half of the plastic box (on a low setting, please) and the Squirrels can move around as needed to get the degree of heat they want or even move off the heat if they desire. The chick heat lamps can get quite hot, they do not permit the Squirrels to regulate their own heating as can be done by using a plastic box with half its bottom placed over an always-on heating pad set on low and they prevent the Squirrels from experiencing normal day and night cycles. By the way, don't place the heating pad inside the box! All that being said, by the time a baby Squirrels eyes are open and they have fur, they are able to regulate their body temperature and an ambient temperature of 70 degrees is not bitter cold by any stretch of the imagination but it might still be nice to have the heating pad available under the plastic box as described if you Little Ones want some extra comfort.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Dinkbradders

09-24-2022, 11:55 AM

All is going well with Ash and Ozzy. Both have doubled their weight in the last 2 weeks and continue to go up even though they only take half of their recommended allowance at some of their feedings. Henry's block should be here soon so that will help.

I saw an old thread on here from last year, that had you all questioning esbilac again? Did anything come of that? These two guys are thriving on it so should I not worry as long as they are putting on weight and being active?

I can't find the deer antler that I gave them anywhere? but found two nice heavy marrow bones that my dog has enjoyed in the past so washed them and wonder if these can be left in there or do I have to limit them? Assume good extra calcium and teeth chewing as Ozzy has destroyed 4 syringes so far by gnawing the ends whilst feeding.

They are still on 4 times a day feedings at 12/13cc for Ozzy per feeding and 9/10cc for Ash (though sometimes they are done at 6) so assume just keep this up but put the 2 Henry's blocks in for them to eat in between? When should I introduce healthy veggies, a week after they are eating block consistently?

They are starting to get active and are climbing the branches in the cage, pouncing on the hammock etc so I will probably need to add a bit more and research safe toys. I wanted to add a ladder hanging from the top of the cage and assume I can just use a fleece blanket, knotted at intervals? or would a sturdy rope be better.

Thanks for your time
Chris

Spanky

09-24-2022, 12:50 PM

I saw an old thread on here from last year, that had you all questioning esbilac again?

I can't find the deer antler that I gave them anywhere? but found two nice heavy marrow bones that my dog has enjoyed in the past so washed them and wonder if these can be left in there or do I have to limit them? Assume good extra calcium and teeth chewing as Ozzy has destroyed 4 syringes so far by gnawing the ends whilst feeding.

They are still on 4 times a day feedings at 12/13cc for Ozzy per feeding and 9/10cc for Ash (though sometimes they are done at 6) so assume just keep this up but put the 2 Henry's blocks in for them to eat in between? When should I introduce healthy veggies, a week after they are eating block consistently?

Funny thing you mention Esbilac. The packaging with the all white puppy dated 11/2021 or later is fine. However, they made some (minor?) formula changes and that is the new packaging with the multi-colored puppy on the label.

We have no reason at this point to be concerned, nutritional analysis is comparable... but we are always very leery when these changes occur so we are on the look-out for any issues.

Knotted fleece is good. Bones are fine, but they are really young and they will not get any meaningful calcium form the morrow bones at this point. Continue to formula feed for as long as they will take it. I'd cut a single Henry's in two for now... they will shred and make a mess for quite a while before they start actually eating the block. After they are eating the block... and only after.. start to introduce healthy veggies; about a week after they are eating the bloc, yes (5 - 9 days).

Dinkbradders

09-24-2022, 06:21 PM

Thanks, yes its def the one with the cute white puppy, in fact I might go get a few of these to stock up as read that I can give them formula, in a bowl, even after they are successfully transitioned to the forest.

Henry's blocks arrived today and they LOVE the hazelnut ones. Ozzy even stole Ash's half and sat on it whilst he ate his own. He is only just learning the sitting up and eating with hands so he propped himself up against his box and stuck his feet out like a bear :grin2, (ill try to upload a pic)

The bones they were disgusted with lol. Guess they still smell of meat. Will get a couple more tiny antlers.

Guessing I just keep up the 4 feeds for now, along with a block a day. They have started to sometimes not want to be out of their cage whilst feeding and fight desperately to get back in but will feed more from in there! Assuming their wildness is kicking in.

Chris

Funny thing you mention Esbilac. The packaging with the all white puppy dated 11/2021 or later is fine. However, they made some (minor?) formula changes and that is the new packaging with the multi-colored puppy on the label.

We have no reason at this point to be concerned, nutritional analysis is comparable... but we are always very leery when these changes occur so we are on the look-out for any issues.

Knotted fleece is good. Bones are fine, but they are really young and they will not get any meaningful calcium form the morrow bones at this point. Continue to formula feed for as long as they will take it. I'd cut a single Henry's in two for now... they will shred and make a mess for quite a while before they start actually eating the block. After they are eating the block... and only after.. start to introduce healthy veggies; about a week after they are eating the bloc, yes (5 - 9 days).

Dinkbradders

09-29-2022, 01:48 PM

Hey guys, can anyone suggest an alternative to the syringe for their formula. They have both gotten to the stage where they will take 1cc or so and then fight to climb back to their cage. They might take a couple more inside (which was hard if Ozzy is still hungry as Ash doesn't get a chance) but are more interested in playing or eating the syringe than taking their milk.

I read a few people trying jar lids and both our guys have taken to being able to lap up milk but still stick their right noses in, & paws & tails lol (I try not to make it too deep but then can't add much) but then its a 'Curious George' moment of the entire cage, bedding, hammock and plastic bed being painted with tiny milky paw prints and mouth marks!!

Still giving them warm block which they liked at first but sometimes even that isn't enticing enough, to stop playing, but I just leave them to it and try with the milk/block at the next feeding.

They are still putting weight on and are both 240g - 260g and I calculate that they must be around 8-9 weeks old now so assuming its them possibly wanting to wean but I think the formula is so important still. I will keep trying the syringe (maybe Ill order the 3cc's next time) and small bits of formula in a jam jar lid plus I read some pretty cool recipes on here which I think you guys call boo block which might work to incorporate both.

I have added a water bottle to the cage because of the block and some water has gone missing from it though didn't see them drinking and no other food has been given yet so its not like they are holding out for better.

Sorry I think after re-reading all this, that I've answered my own question lol but you never know someone may have another genius suggestion I haven't thought of.

Again (as always), thanks for your time and expertise!
Chris

Dinkbradders

09-30-2022, 08:38 PM

SamtheSquirrel2018

10-01-2022, 12:27 AM

They are LOVING their block!!!! Just given a bit of broccoli and brussel too.

They seem very happy but I am still worried about them not eating enough formula, has anyone done a comparison on the amount of formula that an 8/9 week old squirrel should eat per day vs 2 HHB's and veggies? Ozzy has def lost a bit of weight in the last day but ash weighs the same and they weigh a similar amount now. He was at 12cc per feeding but will only chew the syringe now and take a couple. He will take a few cc's from a dish, when reminded.

Ash is still taking about 4 or 5 cc via syringe and will also lap from the dish but this is nowhere near what they were eating formula wise. They do like the block though not sure how much they are eating and crumbling, is this small weight loss normal? Do they stablilize their weight once they decide to start weaning and eating more block instead?

Thanks so much for the updates and photos! Your little ones look great; thanks to your care! Are you using Henry's Healthy Blocks (HHB)? It is important to know that two of these block contain all of the Calcium and other mineral and vitamins that make up one day's recommended dietary intake. It also has appropriate fat, carbohydrate and protein. These blocks are a complete and concentrated daily nutritional source. They should never be free-fed. Give only 2 to 3 per day for each Squirrel and opt for 3 only if your your Squirrel's are wasting some of the blocks. Early on a healthy baby Squirrel that is being weaned and transitioned to block will completely destroy the block and who knows how much or if any they may be consuming. If either of them begin to eat essentially the entire block, give only 2. You can supplement the HHB with other high quality rodent blocks such as Envigo (Harlan-Teklad) 2018 or Mazuri Rat and Mouse diet and the foods from Henry's Healthy Diet for Pet Squirrels pyramid
( https://henryspets.com/healthy-diet-for-pet-squirrels/ ).

They will wean themselves. Please offer the formula until the Squirrels decide they no longer want it and keep trying for several days after that becomes evident because some "change their minds" and decide they would like to continue with the formula a while longer. It may be that the weight might take a small decrease from one day to the next but really, they should still be trending toward weight gain. At this young age and relative immaturity, they should never have their weight trending as as a loss! Treat each Squirrel individually in the weaning process. One may want formula for a longer period than the other.

You are doing a great job raising these Little Ones!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Dinkbradders

10-01-2022, 07:59 PM

Thanks so much, yep Henrys pecan and hazelnut blocks, I have only been giving two a day cut in half but they are def still wasting lots of the block as there is always a pile where they sit.

You are also right as I kept just following them around the cage, since posting this, and Ash decided that he would quite like the syringe still after a few days off (he's pretty particular about not getting messy and I don't think he liked all the mess from drinking it out of the dish lol) Both of them actually use a little take away lid toilet!!! Ozzy saw Ash taking the syringe still and now also takes a few cc by hand and keeps running to see if there is any in his dish too so I'm doing both. I am glad they are back on the formula, though still not quite at the level they were at. Weight gain is def back on the climb too. (phew!)

Only problem now is that Ozzy has developed a fear of the scales, we MAY have called him 'a little chunky monkey' in the past and I think he feels we are fat shaming him lol so WILL NOT allow me to put him on them??? I will have to resort to gardening gloves and full suit of armor. I guess in the future a small treat whilst he sits on the scale might be in order but we are still restricting them to formula, block and veggies. I will look into the Mazuri if they start to refuse their milk again as have kaytee but heard that isn't nutritional enough so don't give it anymore and will probably turn it into homemade block eventually!

Rgs Chris

Thanks so much for the updates and photos! Your little ones look great; thanks to your care! Are you using Henry's Healthy Blocks (HHB)? It is important to know that two of these block contain all of the Calcium and other mineral and vitamins that make up one day's recommended dietary intake. It also has appropriate fat, carbohydrate and protein. These blocks are a complete and concentrated daily nutritional source. They should never be free-fed. Give only 2 to 3 per day for each Squirrel and opt for 3 only if your your Squirrel's are wasting some of the blocks. Early on a healthy baby Squirrel that is being weaned and transitioned to block will completely destroy the block and who knows how much or if any they may be consuming. If either of them begin to eat essentially the entire block, give only 2. You can supplement the HHB with other high quality rodent blocks such as Envigo (Harlan-Teklad) 2018 or Mazuri Rat and Mouse diet and the foods from Henry's Healthy Diet for Pet Squirrels pyramid
( https://henryspets.com/healthy-diet-for-pet-squirrels/ ).

They will wean themselves. Please offer the formula until the Squirrels decide they no longer want it and keep trying for several days after that becomes evident because some "change their minds" and decide they would like to continue with the formula a while longer. It may be that the weight might take a small decrease from one day to the next but really, they should still be trending toward weight gain. At this young age and relative immaturity, they should never have their weight trending as as a loss! Treat each Squirrel individually in the weaning process. One may want formula for a longer period than the other.

You are doing a great job raising these Little Ones!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

SamtheSquirrel2018

10-01-2022, 09:03 PM

Only problem now is that Ozzy has developed a fear of the scales, we MAY have called him 'a little chunky monkey' in the past and I think he feels we are fat shaming him lol so WILL NOT allow me to put him on them??? I will have to resort to gardening gloves and full suit of armor. I guess in the future a small treat whilst he sits on the scale might be in order but we are still restricting them to formula, block and veggies. I will look into the Mazuri if they start to refuse their milk again as have kaytee but heard that isn't nutritional enough so don't give it anymore and will probably turn it into homemade block eventually!

Rgs Chris

There is an easy way to do this! Put Ozzy in a box that you have previously weighed and then weigh the box with Ozzy in it. Subtract the weight of the box and you will have Ozzy's weight without any trauma to Ozzy (or you!)
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

island rehabber

10-02-2022, 12:56 PM

Both of them do look beautiful -- good job!

SamtheSquirrel2018

10-03-2022, 05:54 AM

There is an easy way to do this! Put Ozzy in a box that you have previously weighed and then weigh the box with Ozzy in it. Subtract the weight of the box and you will have Ozzy's weight without any trauma to Ozzy (or you!)
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Just a clarification; this obviously doesn't need to be a "box!" Any container that will safely and effectively hold Ozzy during the weighing will work for this. The important concern is that your scales need to be able to accurately (to the gram) weigh the container under both conditions; with and without Ozzy!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Dinkbradders

10-09-2022, 01:02 PM

Oops thanks for this as haven't logged on in a while.

Hahaha I will have to send a video of me trying to put Ozzy anywhere he doesn't want to go. (my arms look like a halloween serial killer movie) lol. I resorted to putting the scale on the counter next to their cage and eventually after thinking they had escaped they would run over to pick up their block and sit on it to eat! :serene

Both have now def gone off the syringe (just after I bought a new pack) so I just top up a clay saucer, on a shelf in their cage and they seem to be drinking it at leisure and their water bottle is getting emptied so all good. Just working on prep for an outdoor release cage / home if they wish to keep using it but have a few weeks yet before they need that though they def are wanting out with us at every feeding now. Ozzy Loves commando crawling over my husbands upside-down bike tyre as likes the tread scuffing his tummy lol.

Loving their block though still shredding most of it and Ash likes veggies but Ozzy takes his and pushes them back through the cage bars:tap so still holding off nuts and fruit for now.

Rgs Chris

Just a clarification; this obviously doesn't need to be a "box!" Any container that will safely and effectively hold Ozzy during the weighing will work for this. The important concern is that your scales need to be able to accurately (to the gram) weigh the container under both conditions; with and without Ozzy!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Dinkbradders

10-13-2022, 10:17 PM

SamtheSquirrel2018

10-14-2022, 08:06 PM

323365323363323364Both little monsters have started growling occasionally. Ash over his blocks and Ozzy if I go in and disturb them to check the cage after 11!
Guess it's all good as natural and will serve them better when eventually released. Ash did draw blood when my husband went into see them but maybe they were sleeping or had a block stashed (not sure) but it's a great reminder to him and the kids that they are wild animals still and not to take it to heart!

Wanted to ask if it's normal for them to drop 100 poop pellets when playing? I think they save it all up! (If poop was worth gold lol)

Sorry don't know how to turn pics

Those are two cute little Squirrels! Thanks for all that you have done for them and continue to do for them. Squirrels are easy to love! As far as the pooping goes; it may be a record or it may not. I had to shovel out some poop a couple of years ago contributed by three little Squirrels overnight but I I didn't count them as you did so I can't legitimately one-up-ya! On a more subdued note, I'm sure all is fine with your Squirrels, poop and all! An old retired rehabber once told that Squirrels in the release cage frequently play poker together and use poop as chips (I guess they are Squirrel chips after all!) but I only half believe him because I can never find the little cards they would need to use. I'm sure this response was very helpful but I had to do it!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Diggie's Friend

10-15-2022, 05:21 PM

Best to go with the untreated deer antlers, as commonly available cow bones for dogs were found to be treated with a toxic chemical.

They aren't even recommended for dogs as they splinter, that presents a serious health hazard.

Dinkbradders

11-04-2022, 03:41 PM

So the boys are both now in their much larger outdoor cage!!! They've got a full length curtain, tyre swing and branches so are getting much more exercise, so just wondering how many boo balls they should be receiving. I noticed that some on here say 2-3 but others say as many as they want?

I had run out of Henry's so ground the Mazuri with equal formula and nuts (Wal and pecan but will do almonds and hazel next) then added apple sauce and coconut oil to bind, baked for an hour on 215 and they are loving it. I did add a tsp of multi vitamins without D3.

I popped into Whole Foods but could only find Jarrow Dophilus, Fem Dophilus and Ultra Dophilus which had diff ingredients so was confused as which to get. I already have some fortiflora, provable-DC for dogs and Saccharomyces Boulardii (from when my cat got cancer). Does anyone know if these would work as a good probiotic? or at least could anyone provide of pic of the Dophilus they use for their boo balls.

I think I will continue adding the formula as they aren't really touching the saucer of milk anymore so at least this gets good calcium in them and they are still picky with their veggies (though I do cabbages, Broc, beet greens, mushrooms, cauli, boc choy, celery, kale, dand greens, radish, asp) I even tried toms and carrots but they still aren't fussed)
I might try to blitz a few bits in the next batch of Boo balls with slightly less nuts! Guess I don't need calcium powder (without D3) if I continue with the formula?

I have also read mixed info as to if these boo balls can be fed as their staple, instead of henrys. They have been outside for a week so have around 3 weeks to go before we add an opening to the cage :eek but I want to still put food in their daily in case they still wan't to use the cage as a base and get hungry.

Thx

p.s. Yesterday my old, uncaring cat found me at the cage (whilst the boys used my body as the most fun exercise toy) so Ozzy chirped a bit and an outside squirrel started answering him, from the tree above, which freaked him out for a while and both boys huddled up in the nesting box but nice to see nature taking over.