Help with calcium issues with older squirrels?

[Charley Chuckles]

I know this was discussed on the zoom gathering however I need help.

What is the GOOD calcium to give?
Pumpkin seeds are good as I understand should they be given raw?
How do you increase calcium without adding extra weight?
More suggestions and ideas I would appreciate, thank you in advance 👍

[Mel1959]

I have always used Calcium Carbonate that I get at the health food store. The brand name is NOW. Doggies friend says that calcium citrate is absorbed better. I’ve not needed to buy new yet so I’ve never liked for calcium citrate. Henry’s sells some type of calcium on their website.

Why would you expect that calcium should cause weight gain? I’ve never heard of that before.

I was under the impression that pumpkin seeds are still high in phosphorous as all seeds are so should be given in moderation. I do give them at Halloween time, and also squash seeds when I have squash, but it’s to outdoor squirrels. My flyer only gets a couple when I have them. I have purchased raw pumpkin seeds at the store to have on hand for an occasional treat.

[Charley Chuckles]

I have always used Calcium Carbonate that I get at the health food store. The brand name is NOW. Doggies friend says that calcium citrate is absorbed better. I’ve not needed to buy new yet so I’ve never liked for calcium citrate. Henry’s sells some type of calcium on their website.

Why would you expect that calcium should cause weight gain? I’ve never heard of that before.

I was under the impression that pumpkin seeds are still high in phosphorous as all seeds are so should be given in moderation. I do give them at Halloween time, and also squash seeds when I have squash, but it’s to outdoor squirrels. My flyer only gets a couple when I have them. I have purchased raw pumpkin seeds at the store to have on hand for an occasional treat.

Thank you Mel👍

I've always used calcium glubionate to bring a seizing squirrel right out of a seizure, similar to using molasses but it with calcium.
What I have found is squirrels that have sizures are low on calcium which contributes to them seizing.
Calcium citrate is much better for this however using the calcium glubionate as a preventative puts on weight gain because of the sugar factor.
I'm trying to find the correct calcium citrate and how to dose. Maybe crush the tablet add water how much I just don't know 🤔
I've looked on Henry's pets and only see calcium carbonate.
I'm also just trying to find good food balances with the proper calcium ratios.

[CritterMom]

Yeah, pumpkin seeds would be a poor source - one part calcium to 27 parts phosphorus!

Calcium citrate is supposed to be more bioavailable than calcium carbonate, but it has less elemental calcium by weight - in other words, a teaspoon of calcium citrate has less elemental calcium than a teaspoon of calcium carbonate. Is that a wash because the citrate is more bioavailable? That I don't know and have never found anything conclusive on the subject.

This site is wonderful for stuff like this: https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3066/2

I already pulled up pumpkin seeds. You enter the food right at the top. Directly below that is Unit Conversion which allows for an amount - 1 teaspoon, 1 cup, 1 pound, etc. Then scroll down the page to the Mineral section. 1 cup of pumpkin seeds has 59.3mg of calcium and 1620mg of phosphorus. If you then divide the 1620 by 60 (rounded up from 59.3) you get 27. So pumpkin seeds are 1:27. Ideal is 2:1, so you can see how "upside down" pumpkin seeds are. The cool thing is that you can look up all sorts of brand name foods, and baked things like Pop Tarts, cereals, etc.

This is how I found out that Rice Chex have actually been supplemented with enough calcium to be 3:1. When I want a "treat" that isn't terrible in the calcium to phosphorus range, an occasional Rice Chex works!

[Mel1959]

NOW brand also makes a calcium citrate powder. https://www.iherb.com/pr/now-foods-calcium-citrate-pure-powder-8-oz-227-g/481?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjPyDt9TN9gIVGW-GCh2psQlBEAQYAyABEgJTzPD_BwE

Obviously you can order it online, but NOW brand is very popular at health food stores. It says that 1.5 tsp equals 600mg of calcium. Leigh at Henry’s would probably be able to tell you how much to use or see what the strength and instructions are for the calcium she offers. Maybe you could figure it out from those instructions.

Here’s the link for the food chart on TSB for calcium to phosphorous ratios. https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?15397-Food-Data-Chart-Update-Calcium-to-Phosphorus-Ratios

[Mel1959]

I just looked. My NOW bottle of calcium carbonate says that 1/2 tsp equals 600mg of calcium, so it’s a third of the measurement of calcium citrate for an equal dose of calcium.

[Diggie's Friend]

Calcium carbonate is fine for rehabbing juvenile squirrels to be released. For long term support, Calcium citrate was found in rats to prolong kidney function; Calcium carbonate also tested was not found to prolong kidney function in rats.

C. citrate also is the form that preserves calcium availability as it keeps oxalic acid from bonding with calcium unlike C. Carbonate that bonds readily with oxalic acid and so much is lost from the diet using this form. C. Carbonate is the form that is directly related to kidney stones. Calcium Citrate inhibits both calcium lost from bonding with oxalic acid, and so inhibits kidney stone formation. Over 80 years of research built upon prior findings supports this to be factual in both humans and rats to the present day.

Adding C. citrate to an existing block diet lends support to extending kidney function into old age for two reasons. The first is described above; the second is that supporting a higher ratio (Ca:P) from mid-life on takes the pressure off the kidneys, and so also prolongs kidney function that lends to supporting longevity. In a Southern E. Gray C. citrate was found to support kidney function to end life past 11 years with no MBD, nor kidney or bladder stones, and all blood values normal confirmed by Dr. E. of Florida.



https://purebulk.com/products/calcium-citrate-usa-bulk

[Diggie's Friend]

The "NOW" brand has a greater volume by measure than Pure Bulk does. From research about the same about of calcium is absorbed into the bloodstream. And though C. carbonate is lower in volume, the advantage is lost from it having a high propensity to bond with oxalic acid.

Calcium citrate is greater in volume because it includes the 'anion' that is the organic compound that in the case of Calcium citrate is the citrate, which makes this form of calcium more absorbable more soluble, and as explained, less likely to bond with oxalic acid, so that more calcium is made available to the bones. It is a form naturally found in milk and mammal bones. Over the 8 years of using C. citrate was included in a gray squirrel diet, whether added to organic plain low fat yogurt, or a moist food, the squirrel slurped it all up.

[Mel1959]

The "NOW" brand has a greater volume by measure than Pure Bulk does. From research about the same about of calcium is absorbed into the bloodstream. And though C. carbonate is lower in volume, the advantage is lost from it having a high propensity to bond with oxalic acid.

Calcium citrate is greater in volume because it includes the 'anion' that is the organic compound that in the case of Calcium citrate is the citrate, which makes this form of calcium more absorbable more soluble, and as explained, less likely to bond with oxalic acid, so that more calcium is made available to the bones. It is a form naturally found in milk and mammal bones. Over the 8 years of using C. citrate was included in a gray squirrel diet, whether added to organic plain low fat yogurt, or a moist food, the squirrel slurped it all up.

So how much did you use when you added it to something for your squirrel? What amount would you recommend adding to a food source and how often for an older squirrel?

[Charley Chuckles]

I thank all of you, out now with contacts on so hard to read 🤣

[Charley Chuckles]

I checked my bottle of Citracal which I've taken for years ..I see it says it's CALCIUM CITRATE , I've looked up calcium citrate and it states it is better for bones than calcium carbonate.

[Diggie's Friend]

I went to send you a PM Mel, but the board says your box is full.

[salex11]

So how much did you use when you added it to something for your squirrel? What amount would you recommend adding to a food source and how often for an older squirrel?

Did anyone provide guidance on the questions above? I am in need of the same information.
Thank you!!

[Marry77]

Hello everyone,

I would also like a little feedback.

Thanks in advance,

[Diggie's Friend]

To reduce the stress on their kidneys that occurs concurrent with aging; by reducing the amount of phosphorus and increasing the amount of calcium in the diet can compensate for the increase in phosphorus retention by the kidneys and the reduction of calcium bone retention. To determine the reduction in in the block diet, and corresponding increase in calcium to increase the Ca:P ratio, depends upon three factors: the subspecies/species of the squirrel, the rodent block diet used; and the age and the condition of the squirrel. For reason that one size doesn't fit all; these calculations require an investment of time to complete.

[Marry77]

To reduce the stress on their kidneys that occurs concurrent with aging; by reducing the amount of phosphorus and increasing the amount of calcium in the diet can compensate for the increase in phosphorus retention by the kidneys and the reduction of calcium bone retention. To determine the reduction in in the block diet, and corresponding increase in calcium to increase the Ca:P ratio, depends upon three factors: the subspecies/species of the squirrel, the rodent block diet used; and the age and the condition of the squirrel. For reason that one size doesn't fit all; these calculations require an investment of time to complete.

Hello,

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