Moved to life threatening 😭 please help

[Hannah327]

My baby boy really needs some help I took screenshots of my posts to move to this thread because I’m afraid it has become life threatening I can’t get my baby to poop! Here is some information on them below. As well as pictures of all 3.

[CritterMom]

I don't think they are eating enough. And I think you are confusing a full belly with bloat. If they aren't eating enough, their body will use every single bit of the formula and there won't be any to poop out.

Is the one you are concerned with in distress or is he acting normally?

Are the pics you have up of them before or after you feed them? If they are after shots, they are not eating enough.

Are you still feeding the homemade goats milk? It digests faster and more easily than the powdered formulas

If you hold a properly fed baby up in front of you by the armpits and let his body hang down unsupported, his tummy should look teardrop shaped, like a 2/3 filled water balloon and should FEEL like one, soft and squishy.

If they are bloated, it looks more like an air filled balloon - hard, and tight like a drum. They will also be in obvious distress because it hurts. As long as the tummy is soft and squishy, they are not bloated, just full.

I cannot read your notes except for the ones at the top of the page, which were days ago. At that point, 2ml would have been 5% but they should have put on quite a bit of weight since then and are still getting 2ml.

Answer my questions and we will go on from there.

[Mel1959]

Do you weigh them every morning? You need to have a gram scale and weigh them every morning and calculate the amount they should be fed at each feeding based on their NEW weight. 5-7% of their weight is the rule, but as they grow and their tummies adjust to constant feedings they will usually take more….sometimes as much as 10% of their weight. The important part is that any increases in formula are gradual….you wouldn’t want to jump from 2ml at a feeding to 4ml at a feeding, but gradual increments will keep them from developing diarrhea.

[island rehabber]

In the last pic, the milk line is clearly visible in the baby's belly and it tells me he is underfed. That milk line should be about a quarter inch higher up his abdomen in order for him to be sufficiently full. The milk line should be just under where his belly button would be. Hope that helps.

[Mel1959]

According to what I’m reading in your notes you’re feeding less instead of more at each feeding. It looks like you were feeding 2.5 ml and then dropped to 2.0 ml and then to 1.0 ml. I’d cut out the water and feed a feeding at 2.0 ml and then assess their bellies to see if they look full. As IR said, the milk line is still clearly visible on the bellies and you can watch it and determine if they’re full or not.

[Hannah327]

He was acting lethargic but he acted hungry this morning. He only ate 1 ml though. I can see his milk line. I am feeding goats milk formula every 3-4 hours. Their bellies don’t really seem hard. I just fed them so I will post pics.

[Hannah327]

I dropped the feedings down because they seemed bloated a little and I didn’t want to blow their little bellies up. I stopped the water at 5 pm yesterday I weighed them yesterday morning and they were 49.6 g, 53.0g, 53.0g this morning it was 53.8g, 56.5G, 55.4 g. I weigh them after feedings because they aren’t still otherwise and it’s hard to get the exact weight.

[Hannah327]

Their bellies are soft now. This is right after feeding the girls ate 2ml and the boy only ate 1ml. Should I offer more? So the milk line is always there it just needs to be a little higher than their belly button?

[CritterMom]

Also, however warm you are heating the formula to now, make it warmer. Most of them like it warmer than even mama squirrel could provide. A few degrees makes the difference between chowing down and pushing it away. If you are right on the edge when you begin, it will be too cold before you finish.

[Hannah327]

I will definitely do that thank you so much! Should I offer them more right now? The pics above is where they just ate and how much.

[CritterMom]

Look at these pics from a recent thread here: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMefofupojV538ANB_SgDSvIZ1gK-dP760XQxyKrxCXTXv_HJpS99f1bs662TCjdw?key=S01fV3NXZ mRrZkJDM01ZTEJJWGNtWFV6bWRjM2h3

That baby is younger than ours and look at the gut on him! THAT is a well fed baby. Again, if the tummy is squishy, it is just full, not bloated.

Give them an hour or so and then feed again, using quite warm formula. You don't want to feed too frequently, so give them time to digest what you juat gave them.

If you fill a mug with warm water - shoot for 105-110 degrees - then fill your syringes with the warmed formula and drop them, tip down, into the mug - make sure the water is as high as the level of formula in the syringes. If you have slow eaters, give them half a syringe, drop it in the warm water, then grab one of the other filled syringes and continue feeding. Warm, warm! Trying to feed 3 babies with 1 syringe is not the answer - stopping and refilling will make them get dussy and not want to continue. Mama doesn't do that - she lets down a specific amount of milk at one time and they feed all at once. If I am feeding 3 babies 3cc's of formula per feeding, I have NONE syringes all loaded and ready in my water mug. That way I can feed one syringe, drop it and grab anther so fast they don't know what is happening and the formula stays warm throughout.

You babies should be eating between 2.8 and 3.9 cc's per feeding, or between 3 and 4 to round up slightly. 3 is the LOW end.

[Hannah327]

Also the pic of the girl above. Are her gums supposed to be that color? Or more pink? She doesn’t seem dehydrated but her gums look a little pale to me. I’m not sure how pink they’re supposed to be. I figure they will be a little white before the teeth puncture through like babies do. Thank you so much for your advice it’s helping me so much. I appreciate you taking time out of your day to reply to me. You are keeping my mind more at ease which is very hard to do. I’ve been watching these babies like a hawk! I don’t get much sleep at all anymore�� maybe a few hours a night and I may take a short nap during the day after I feed the babies and know they will be content for a little bit. I’ve tried the little baby tube socks and they come out of them so I’ve just been watching and making sure I keep them from sucking each other or themselves. They tend to fall back asleep and be fine for a little bit.

[CritterMom]

It is hard to tell since the only part of her gums I can see are RIGHT where the white teeth are growing in. If they are still a teens bit dehydrated, the proper amount of formula will help that, too. Like I said, no tiny feedings spaced close apart - that is a bad idea and WILL lead to bloat eventually. You want to fill them up and let them empty, then refill and re-empty. As they get bigger the feedings get larger and further apart and soon, you get to sleep all night!

[Mel1959]

Their bellies are soft now. This is right after feeding the girls ate 2ml and the boy only ate 1ml. Should I offer more? So the milk line is always there it just needs to be a little higher than their belly button?

In my opinion these babies have not eaten enough. Their bellies are skinny and not round at all. 1 cc for the little boy is not enough. As CritterMom said they should be eating between 3-4cc at each feeding.

[Spanky]

Don't forget that the goat's milk formula is only a temporary formula since it is nutritionally lacking... so underfeeding them complicates the under nutrition problems.

When is the Fox Valley suppose to arrive?

[Hannah327]

I’m scared now because one said they looked well fed. I tried to feed them again and made sure the milk was warm enough and they didn’t eat a lot. Their bellies look full to me but I did take before and after pics this feeding I will post below. I didn’t get a before pic of the last girl. They are up moving around and sucking but quickly fell back asleep. They fall asleep while eating and I rub their little head or back to wake them up to make sure they don’t want anymore before I potty them again and put them up. The fox valley is already supposed to have been here I’m about to order it from Henry’s too maybe it’ll get her quicker. I am still to order the 20/50 right?

[Hannah327]

This is after going 3 1/2 hours without milk. They eat a little and act full. The girls both ate 1 ml of milk this feeding but I could only get the boy to eat 1/2 ml. I did get them all to potty! #1&2

[CritterMom]

Yes, Henry's will be faster. Yes to 20/50.

Are you making up fresh formula daily? You need to. Make enough for the whole day, but only heat up enough for the feeding each time. You do not want to heat up the entire amount each time. Discard and make up fresh the next day.

How are you making the formula? Tell us what kind of goats milk - powdered/fresh/canned and the brand. Same with yogurt and you ARE using heavy cow's cream, right? In what amounts?

Are you sure it is warm enough?

1ml is NOT enough for them, especially with 3.5 hours in between.

If you are not using fresh goats milk, I would try to get some. It just tastes better. Trader Joes has it, so does Whole Foods. Purple and white quart size carton, Meyenburg is the brand.

Try to get FULL FAT yogurt and go for vanilla rather than plain. Stoneyfield makes a nice full fat vanilla, and I got a greek full fat in vanilla from Trader Joes once that everyone liked.

If you are only able to get these small amounts in them, they need to be fed again as soon as the milk band disappears...

[Hannah327]

20/50 is for 4 weeks are they that old? My mom is on there looking and about to order so I want to make sure I will answer the other questions after I feed them a little more real quick

[CritterMom]

No, they aren't, but you will end up doing a long transition from the goats milk to the FV where you will be combining the two formulas that will take a while. The FV for tiny babies is NOT a safe formula, unfortunately. I don't have time to go into details but we don't use it and don't recommend it. Get the 20/50.

[Hannah327]

Okay I’m back! I mixed up the goat formula plus and they loved it! I got baby boy to eat 1 ml of the milk! And he pooped a ton!! Baby girl #1 ate 1 1/2 ml and baby girl #2 ate 1ml. I will post the formula I was going by and what I mixed up just now. I am mixing fresh formula daily. I’m only making a shot glass at a time and heating up what I think I may use and discard the rest. I am using meyenburg powders goats milk. Our grocery stores are cleared out right now everywhere because of shortages so the Only yogurt suitable that I found was low fat plain yogurt. I know they need full fat but there were literally none left. I’m using heavy cow cream. So I need to wait for the milk band to completely disappear before feeding again? I’ve ordered more of the 20/50 fox valley formula and syringes and nipples but this time through Henry’s so we will see which one gets here first! These little babies sure are expensive especially having to order things twice and running back and fourth to the grocery when I find out I need to be doing something different or need something different. But I will say these babies sure are worth it! They have stole my heart completely! I’ve avoided naming them so I don’t get too attached and them not make it in case anyone was wonder why I call them baby boy, and girl 1&2 lol. But it hasn’t worked I’m still just as attached. I will probably end up naming them anyways but I’ll wait until they’re a little older so I can see personalities. I’ve tried to raise a baby coon and a baby skunk but they both were internally bleeding and unfortunately did not make it.

[Hannah327]

This is what I was using and I started the goat milk plus at 8 and they ate more.

[Hannah327]

I tried to post the video but it wouldn’t let me but here are the gums of the boy. I don’t know how pink they’re supposed to be they look a little white to me but pink too.

[Spanky]

Okay I’m back! I mixed up the goat formula plus and they loved it! I got baby boy to eat 1 ml of the milk! And he pooped a ton!! Baby girl #1 ate 1 1/2 ml and baby girl #2 ate 1m

They are not being fed enough... at 50grams (low side weight of all of them) they should be fed a minimum of 2.5ml each feeding. And up to 3.5ml each feeding. So about 3ml every feeding would be the average they should be eating. 1ml to 1 1/2ml is not enough food for these babies.

[CritterMom]

They are not being fed enough... at 50grams (low side weight of all of them) they should be fed a minimum of 2.5ml each feeding. And up to 3.5ml each feeding. So about 3ml every feeding would be the average they should be eating. 1ml to 1 1/2ml is not enough food for these babies.


She knows - they were being really balky. Keep increasing the amount they eat every feeding - hopefully by tomorrow they will up to where they need to be.

[Spanky]

Here are some pictures of Dustin... Dustin is 58grams tonight, the closest baby I have to your three right now.

These pictures are right after feeding 3ml of formula. This shows how they get kinda plump and round after feeding... squishy like a water balloon. I hoped maybe this would help for comparison.

Dustin has some bruising under his chin and on his lower right leg, just wanted to mention this not wanting anyone to think this was normal or overlooked (little fella had a tough day yesterday and was pretty banged up when the tree cutter brought him).


321095
321093
321094

[Hannah327]

Thank y’all so much! The pictures help a lot! I would’ve thought that little guy was bloated! I’m going to increase amount each feeding or try to anyways! I guess I was so worried about over feeding these guys I didn’t think about me underfeeding them that breaks my heart! Girl number 1 ate 1 1/2 ml at 8:30 and 2 ml at 10:30. Girl number 2 ate 1 ml and I couldn’t get her to eat over 1ml 2 hours later. Baby boy did the same as baby girl number 2 and I made sure formula was very very warm. When should I offer them more? I wasn’t planning on feeding them 2 hours instead of 3 but I did because I don’t want to starve them and they were waking up sucking.

[CritterMom]

Just keep trying to increase the amount each time you feed. Their little stomachs have shrunken down so you will likely need to do some urging. Try this: Place a little bit of honey or syrup in a bottle cap or something right by your nursing set up and when they start to refuse, dip the tip of the syringe in it and try again. The sudden new, sweet taste may start them sucking again.

Are you using nipples on the syringes? If not, contact Henry's by phone to see if you can add to your order from last night. These: https://henryspets.com/silicone-mothering-nipples-for-nursing-baby-animals/ will work for them right now and are inexpensive, as they get older they will want these: https://henryspets.com/miracle-nipples-2/. They will chew right through the silicone ones when they get older. The hard plastic tip of a syringe is NOTHING like mama.

[Hannah327]

They are slowly taking more milk! Their bellies are definitely starting to look a little more plump. I ordered syringes and nipples through Henry’s but the ones I ordered are the second link 2 different sizes. I was using a nipple on the end but it kept getting air in it where they would suck it out of the nipple faster than I was plunging the syringe. So I stopped using it last night but they don’t seem to mind. Thank you I will definitely try that when they slow down eating!

[Hannah327]

This is them after 3ml at 6am! I was up most of the night with them. Trying to get a little at a time in when they would wake up. Finally got a few hours of sleep and when I woke up to feed they took more! Do their bellies look better?

[CritterMom]

That is a little better. Again, 5-7% of their weight yesterday would be 3-4ml, so keep giving them a tiny bit more at each feeding. They will be able to go a little longer between feedings once they start eating more.

When you get the fox valley, you are NOT going to just switch them. It will be a long, slow transition between the two formulas. I will put something together to help you out with that. BTW, they usually love the FV - it smells like vanilla cake mix when you open the bag! When you get the bag of FV, put it in the freezer and store it there always. It is powder - it mixes the same regardless of whether it is in the freezer or room temp, but the powder WILL go rancid if left out.

[Hannah327]

Yes ma’am and I was just about to ask you about the transition so I could start as soon as it comes in, you read my mind! I appreciate you doing that for me and my babies! I knew it would be a slow transition I just needed to know how to do it. You all are so helpful on this site I honestly don’t know what I would do without y’all because google has so many different answers so it is definitely helpful to have experienced help!

[CritterMom]

Yes ma’am and I was just about to ask you about the transition so I could start as soon as it comes in, you read my mind! I appreciate you doing that for me and my babies! I knew it would be a slow transition I just needed to know how to do it. You all are so helpful on this site I honestly don’t know what I would do without y’all because google has so many different answers so it is definitely helpful to have experienced help!

What are you using as your "part" (1 "part" yogurt, 3 "parts" goats milk, etc.) I usually use a tablespoon but I want to stick with what you are comfortable with.

[Hannah327]

This is the new formula I switched to and they like it, it’s the same as the one I was using before it just has more yogurt and cream. So this is what I am going by. I am comfortable with whatever you think is best for my babies.

[CritterMom]

Will do. It doesn't matter what the unit of measure is, as long as they are all the same. A "part" could be a teaspoon, a cup, or an olympic size swimming pool full, as long as you use the same for everything (swimming pool not recommended, very wasteful).

[CritterMom]

Sent you a detailed transition schedule by PM. Let me know if anything is unclear.

[Hannah327]

I know this is kind of gross but is this normal or are my babies getting constipated? Should I over them honey water? I was thinking maybe they’re getting a bit dehydrated but idk it may be because I’ve been feeding them often. They still aren’t eating very much but one of the girls seem really healthy. Also they are ALL sneezing now. I don’t see milk coming out of the nose but I feel something hit me when they sneeze. It was just the one that had a bloody nose at first but now they’re all sneezing. I hope they aren’t sick! They were in a cold rain before I got them but I feel like I would’ve seen more symptoms within a week or two but I may be wrong.

[Spanky]

It will not hurt to offer 1ml - 2ml of water in between feedings, but not instead of feedings right now.

The pinch test: Pinch the skin on the back of their necks. When you release that skin it should quickly go back into place... it is does, that is good. If the pinched skin takes a full second or a few seconds to return to normal, they are dehydrated.

Hold them up to your ear like a phone and listen to their breathing. If there is a clicking sound with each breath, they may have Aspiration Pneumonia (AP) and will require treatment with antibiotics. Do not rely only on this listening around feeding times, as often there is a wet "mouth click" especially after feeding. The click we are listening for is in the lungs... and if they have AP they with every breath. They cannot not click, kind of like the hiccups it is uncontrollable... it happens consistently. I find it best to listen when they are sleeping using a plastic solo type cup. Cut the bottom out of the cup then hold the large end over the sleeping baby / babies and listen with your ear to the bottom end that was cut off. The plastic helps to amplify the sound. Often you can here a crackling sound if they have AP, sorta of like rice crispies when you add the milk.

Those poos do not look worrisome to me.

Have you started the transition from goat's milk to Fox Valley yet?

[Hannah327]

I will do that and the girl and boy are a little wrinkly when I pull back the skin. I don’t hear any clicking or anything I’ve listened to them for days to make sure they were wheezing or clicking or any of that. I haven’t made the transition yet it said the fox valley would be here by Friday and I can’t even find my order where I ordered it through Amazon and was already supposed to be here. I’m hoping one of them will be here by today.

[CritterMom]

The poops are fine - they are finally getting enough food to actually produce them.

Baby squirrels make a lot of little mouth noises. They smack and click and grunt and purr like little cats. They snort and sneeze to get dust and little fibers from the fleece off of their noses. The noises you need to worry about come from the CHEST, not the mouth, and they are constant, even when asleep.

[Hannah327]

That eases my mind a little I’m still going to keep a look out and listen while they sleep. Just to be on the safe side. I will post a pic of what my chart is looking like they still aren’t eating what they should be but they’re eating a little more at a time and then slacking the next feeding. I tried dipping my syringe in honey and it didn’t interest them at all. They honestly act like they’re full. Their milk line is staying around their belly button after they eat but hardly ever below it. I offered honey water before my last feeding and they drank 1 ml of it great! My fox valley package isn’t far from me so maybe it’ll arrive today but the latest tomorrow.

[Hannah327]

Here is their chart and their weight. I have to weight them after I feed and even then they aren’t very still so I’ve tried to get the correct weight every time but it’s a little difficult

[Spanky]

How frequently are you feeding them?

Do not give water just prior to feeding, it serves no purpose other than deny them nutrition (less room for formula). When we recommend hydration "in between" feedings, what is meant is if the feedings are every 4 hours, the water would be offered 2 hours after the feeding. If you are giving water just before feeding it simply displaces the amount of formula they can take denying them critical nutrition. Also, giving water with the formula really does very little to help "hydrate" them. When food (formula) is given, their little bodies move fluids from the tissues to the stomach from tissue to help digest the food. Giving water on an empty stomach (or more empty stomach) allows their bodies to move the water from the stomach into the tissue (which is the goal of hydrating). Once they are fully hydrated, there is a "balance" in such that when they are fed, fluids can be moved to the stomach to help with digestion without causing a "dehydrating" effect on their little bodies.

Please post your feeding records or share how much they are eating each feeding. Sounds like they may not be getting adequate feeding/nutrition. If they are not receiving the 5% minimum per feeding over an extended period of time, it's basically slowly starving them.

Edit: I see you posted your weight chart. Are you weighing consistently.. e.g. taking their weight always either before they are fed or after? I would suggest weighing them once a day, at about the same time, before they are fed. A consistent (e.g. 7AM before feeding) daily weight paints a good picture of their progress. There is not really a need to weigh multiple times a day unless they are in critical condition IMO.

Edit#2: I don't believe thee kids are consistently getting enough formula to thrive.

[Hannah327]

The first 2 days you see there I weighed them the same time. The 3rd day was that night. I posted their feeding chart above but if you can’t make it out I will type it out. I don’t want to starve my babies that breaks my heart. I fed them water before feeding that one time but I definitely won’t do that anymore. What do I do if they stop eating? I can’t force it down them I don’t know what else to do to get them to eat more.

[Spanky]

The first 2 days you see there I weighed them the same time. The 3rd day was that night. I posted their feeding chart above but if you can’t make it out I will type it out. I don’t want to starve my babies that breaks my heart. I fed them water before feeding that one time but I definitely won’t do that anymore. What do I do if they stop eating? I can’t force it down them I don’t know what else to do to get them to eat more.

What I see in the notes on feeding is they are 50gm - 65gm (+/-), they should be eating 2.5ml at the minimum, but they are getting only 1ml - 2ml.

They should readily be taking at least 5%. If they stop short of 5% it could be the formula is not warm enough or maybe they need to potty.

Formula not being warm enough is the most likely... most of them like it very warm. Rarely babies want less warm formula.. so play with the formula temperature. Feeding 3 babies usually requires refreshing the hot water used to heat the formula. Most of us use an insulated cup filled with hot water. We place the syringes full of formula into the cup to warm them.. rotating 2 syringes works well. You may need to get fresh hot water with each baby's feeding.

A lot of times a baby needing to be pottied will be "fussy"; squirmy and pushing the syringe away.

Since they are all around 60grams, I would not hesitate to feeding every 3.5hours, especially if that results in their eating 3ml - 4ml per feeding.

Never reuse formula that was warmed but not fed; discard any formula that was warmed but not fed right away.

The formula (especially when the FV arrives) should be mixed hours ahead of time to allow the powder to more fully dissolve. My routine is to mix the formula, shake 100 times (in one of those mixer cups with the spring balls).. set it on the counter. Shake a few more times (50 or so, 2 X or 3) over the next 30 minutes then place in to the fridge. It remains there usually at least 6 hours before I use it... I'll shake it more if I happen to go into the fridge for anything.

[Mel1959]

Did you ever get a heating pad? I know you said you had concerns about heating pads, but it’s impossible to successfully raise baby squirrels without them having a constant steady heat source. I’m trying to make some sense of why these babies aren’t thriving when there is no apparent reason for them not to. If you haven’t gotten a non shut off heating pad….YOU HAVE TO GET ONE!! If these babies are too cold it would explain why they aren’t digesting their food well and aren’t eating well.

They are not in a cardboard box and there’s no cardboard in their bed area? Do you have some soft blankets for bedding and warmth? Or are you only using t shirts and towels like I’ve seen in the pictures you’ve posted?

Weigh them first thing in the morning before feeding, as Spanky said. Get a small Tupperware container and put a piece of cut up fleece or T-shirt in the bottom. Make sure the sides are high enough that the baby can’t roll out. Put it on the scale and press the “tare” button to zero out the scale. No place a baby in the container and you will get an accurate weight. Once the scale has been zeroed out like that as long as nothing changes in the container you can weigh each baby every morning and your weights will be consistent and accurate.

What is the length of time between your feedings now?

[Spanky]

Did you ever get a heating pad? I know you said you had concerns about heating pads, but it’s impossible to successfully raise baby squirrels without them having a constant steady heat source. I’m trying to make some sense of why these babies aren’t thriving when there is no apparent reason for them not to. If you haven’t gotten a non shut off heating pad….YOU HAVE TO GET ONE!! If these babies are too cold it would explain why they aren’t digesting their food well and aren’t eating well.

Mel makes a very good point!

[Hannah327]

I refresh the hot water before feeding another baby. I potty them before and after a feeding and sometimes during if I see they are trying to go. But when I go back to feed again they don’t want it. I’ve made sure the milk is very warm! If it stings my wrist I wait until it doesn’t I make sure it’s hot but not hot enough to burn their mouth. I’m feeding them every 3 hours so move to 3 1/2? They act hungry again before the 3 hours. Probably because what you said they aren’t eating enough. I went and bought a heating pad the next day I said that and it is a non shut off one. I have them separated in different tshirts now side by side lined up on the heating pad half on half off in case they get too warm. No cardboard in or around their bedding. I have 2 towels on bottom for insulation and a T-shirt wrapped around the heating pad on top and then another T-shirt on top and then they are in separate tshirts on top of that. I will start weighing them the same time in the mornings and I have the scale and stuff set up the way you described. I put it under their light before I weigh them so it’s not cold.

[BCChins]

Is the heating pad in the box with them.

[Mel1959]

If the heating pad is inside the box with them, please remove it and place it halfway UNDER the container the squirrels are in. You want the babies to be able to move off the heat to another place in the box if they get too hot. Set the heating pad to low and remove any t shirts you have wrapped around it. Place several layers of t shirts (blankets are better) in the bottom of the box they’re in and check it after it’s been set up this way to be sure the heat is radiating through the t shirts and the area the babies are in is warm. Their little bodies should always feel toasty warm, never cool.

[CritterMom]

I refresh the hot water before feeding another baby. I potty them before and after a feeding and sometimes during if I see they are trying to go. But when I go back to feed again they don’t want it. I’ve made sure the milk is very warm! If it stings my wrist I wait until it doesn’t I make sure it’s hot but not hot enough to burn their mouth. I’m feeding them every 3 hours so move to 3 1/2? They act hungry again before the 3 hours. Probably because what you said they aren’t eating enough. I went and bought a heating pad the next day I said that and it is a non shut off one. I have them separated in different tshirts now side by side lined up on the heating pad half on half off in case they get too warm. No cardboard in or around their bedding. I have 2 towels on bottom for insulation and a T-shirt wrapped around the heating pad on top and then another T-shirt on top and then they are in separate tshirts on top of that. I will start weighing them the same time in the mornings and I have the scale and stuff set up the way you described. I put it under their light before I weigh them so it’s not cold.

Try very hard not to interrupt feeding for any reason, including pottying them. Any interruption in feeding can make them quit. This is why I use multiple syringes. When they are nearing completion on one I have another in my hand and slide it in their mouth at the same time I remove the first so there is zero interruption. I don't even set the empty one aside - I just drop it from my hand and collect it when done. Nursing mamas don't have the milk available all the time - it doesn't drip from them constantly. The babies nuzzle around which causes a blast of oxytocin (a hormone) to the mama that causes her to "let her milk down" into the teats. It is there for a short period of time. The babies suck like maniacs, and when there is an interruption, they think the milk is gone for that feeding. If you have to stop to suck more formula into the syringe, or because you think they need to potty, they will be done eating at that session. When I am done feeding I am sitting on the floor with empty syringes surrounding me!

[Hannah327]

I’m about to remove the heating pad and put it under the bedding more. I only have one syringe right now but I’ll have more tomorrow when the formula gets here. I went to 3 different pharmacies and one girl dug for forever and found just one 1 ml syringe and that’s what I’ve been using until last night when it finally broke. Now all I have is a Motrin 3 ml syringe that I’m using until tomorrow. I’m very careful with it I’ve went through probably 10 syringes

[Hannah327]

Do my babies need any kind of sunlight? I read something about the have to have the uv rays is this even for babies? I have kept my babies under a regular light bulb the don’t get much sunlight I don’t ever even have them by a window. Is this maybe why my babies aren’t thriving? I have my fv formula and I mixed it as you said and let it set. I gave them some last feeding and I waited 3-3 1/2 hours to feed again and they didn’t eat much that time. Should I feed them every 4 or stay to 3- 3 1/2?

[Mel1959]

No, they don’t need sunlight. Are they toasty warm when you pick them up? Have you mixed up the Fox Valley and the goats milk formula separately so you can transition them the way CM suggested? Offer them some water about 1.5 hrs after this mornings feeding.

[Spanky]

Do my babies need any kind of sunlight? I read something about the have to have the uv rays is this even for babies? I have kept my babies under a regular light bulb the don’t get much sunlight I don’t ever even have them by a window. Is this maybe why my babies aren’t thriving? I have my fv formula and I mixed it as you said and let it set. I gave them some last feeding and I waited 3-3 1/2 hours to feed again and they didn’t eat much that time. Should I feed them every 4 or stay to 3- 3 1/2?

There is Vitamin D in the Fox Valley (as well as the homemade goat's formula).

The goat's milk formula is a temporary concoction to hold them over until proper formula can be obtained the next day, or ordered on line and received in just a few days (2-3). It is not nutritionally complete, but it will hold them over until better formula is obtained.

Baby squirrels should be eating a minimum of 5% of their body weight each feeding at a minimum.

These babies lost their mom on 2/21 and have been eating a "marginal formula" for almost 2 weeks and struggling to get them to eat 3%. There is no mystery why they are struggling and not thriving.

If they have finally starting getting at least 5%, stay the course and try to nudge that up to 6%. If they are not taking 5% each feeding that absolutely, positively needs to be goal #1 (and #2 and #3).

They are "behind" and got off to a rough start, but it can be turned around. That starts by them eating at least 5% of their weight each feeding. At 60 grams they can go 4 hours between feedings, but if feedings are extended to every 4 hours and they are eating anything less than 5%, it is a huge step backwards. They will not thrive and slowly starve to death. This happens even in the wild when mom cannot produce enough milk because she cannot get the food she needs (or is compromised herself from injury or illness). If feedings are every 4 hours and they start taking 5%... or 6%.. then that is a step big forward (especially they 6%). My babies do not usually eat more than 6% at this age / weight (60 - 70grams)... they start topping the 7% at about 100grams. The goal for me at this point would be 6% every 4 hours (around the clock!).

Speaking of around the clock, with babies that are struggling / compromised I extend the around the clock feedings until I am satisfied they have "caught up".

The light bulb is not needed if they have a heating pad... I have never known any one to use a light bulb like this with squirrels. I'd ditch the light bulb FWIW.

[Hannah327]

Yes they are warm to touch and I turned the light off. I mixed the formulas up separately and after it sat for 6 hours I combined and fed. I’m going to post my latest feeding chart.

[Hannah327]

I overslept a little this morning and I know I can’t afford to. I’m setting 20 alarms at a time to make sure I’m up I guess lack of sleep caught up to me. But this is what they’re eating now. I’m going to offer them some water at 10 and see how that goes.

[Hannah327]

And they’re all 60 grams and up

[Mel1959]

It sounds like things are going in the right direction. Good job! :great:highfive

[Hannah327]

That makes me so happy to hear! They are so content too with what little fox valley they have in their milk too!

[Mel1959]

What part of the formula transition phase are you on? When did you start feeding the Fox Valley?

[CritterMom]

Mel, I wrote up a really long transition to the FV. These babies are actually too young for it, plus they have been on goats milk. It has almost NO solids in it, while FV has LOTS of solids in it. I don't want her to run into "sludge gut" because they aren't able to process the relatively rich FV. If she had been feeding esbilac I would have gone faster but these guys have had so many issues eating... It will take her about a week to get completely off the GM.

[Mel1959]

Ok, i understand thanks for the clarification.

I want to add that HRT4SQRLS and I had this conversation many times about when she was in a position to take a baby that was only about 3 weeks old and it was already on FV 20/50. She continued with 20/50 and it did fine. She always felt that the FV guideline of beginning the 20/50 at 5 weeks was good, however it wasn’t a deal breaker to begin it sooner.

I understand that there is a huge difference between the goats milk and the FV and I agree that your very slow transition is the best way to do it. :grin2

[Hannah327]

I appreciate you guys. I do want to make sure I am mixing right though. I’ve read my transition you wrote me 1000 times but I do mix up the ratio to the goats milk I sent right? I have been doubling it so double the vf in it too?

[CritterMom]

Nope. You are overthinking this. I used exactly this recipe you posted when I wrote it up.

First two days, just add a tablespoon of the mixed up FV to your Goats Milk mixture.

Next two days, instead of adding a Tablespoon of the FV mixture, replace a Tablespoon of the Goats Milk mixture with the mixed up FV. That is, scoop out a Tablespoon of the Goats Milk Mixture and dump it, then replace that Tablespoon with the FV mixture.

Next two days do the same thing but remove 2 Tablespoons of the GM formula and replace with 2 Tablespoons of the FV mixture

And so on until you have pretty much replaced all of the original formula with the new FV formula.

Normally we would do this much faster. Given that your babies have been eating way too little of a really easy to digest formula with very few solids, I am concerned about switching them over too quickly. The FV is longer to digest and doing a rapid transition in young babies can be really hard on their tummy. I would rather err on the side of caution and let them get used to it very gradually.

[CritterMom]

It's funny - no sooner did I post this that I got a PM from someone else I am helping - and his baby is fat and sassy and was started on esbilac. Even then he ran into poop issues when he began the transition. There is a huge difference in the foods. The FV is really great once you get them transitioned, but trying to do it too fast can be really problematic. Really, any time you change foods for an animal, doing it as slowly as possible is always the safest. Their systems don't even know it is happening that way.

[Hannah327]

I kept telling myself I was overthinking it. But thank you! My boy still isn’t eating the greatest but the girls definitely are!

[Hannah327]

I couldn’t get my sweet babies to eat much at all last night! Could this be because they are starting to teethe their top teeth? They chew on the nipple a little before sucking and then chewing again or acting like they are full. They did poop a lot but still didn’t want more. The dropping the syringe for another worked for a while but now they act like they don’t want it. I’m hoping it’s because they are teething but if not do I need to space feedings out again. I’m feeding every 4 should I go every 4 1/2?

[Hannah327]

These are my girls after eating 3-3 1/2 ml after 4 hours. The pictures aren’t great as they were trying to move around. Their bellies look a little bigger to me in person.

[Hannah327]

Also, is this a sign of feeding too much? Their poop has been like a golden color and now it looks very light.

[Mel1959]

No, the poop from squirrels fed formula is suppose to be golden colored. Watch for it to get soft. Make your increase in formula very gradual so they don’t get loose stool.

[CritterMom]

Yup, golden color FV poop.

How is your boy doing?

[Hannah327]

I have a couple of posts above the poop picture you may not have seen. But they aren’t wanting to eat much more than 3 ml barely even that. What should I do? My boy doesn’t want to eat much either and he had a little blood on his nipple. They just want to bite it instead of eat. I can’t really just force it and they are squirming like crazy! I don’t want to starve my babies. I just started the day 3 transition plan as well. Their little bellies still look a little full but one of my girls bellies don’t and she won’t eat

[CritterMom]

I have a couple of posts above the poop picture you may not have seen. But they aren’t wanting to eat much more than 3 ml barely even that. What should I do? My boy doesn’t want to eat much either and he had a little blood on his nipple. They just want to bite it instead of eat. I can’t really just force it and they are squirming like crazy! I don’t want to starve my babies. I just started the day 3 transition plan as well. Their little bellies still look a little full but one of my girls bellies don’t and she won’t eat

The FV has lots of solids and thus takes longer to digest than the goats milk formula did. That means they can (and should) go longer between feedings.

They simply can't be allowed to not eat. If they take just a little, try putting a drop at a time in their mouth and wait for them to swallow it, and then another drop. If that doesn't work, stop, potty them, then hold them up against your throat and hum very quietly so they can feel the vibrations for a while. Make sure you have WARM formula and start feeding again, drop by drop if you have to.

[Hannah327]

So I should go 4 1/2 hours between feedings? I tried the drop at a time it only works for so long and then they stop swallowing it.

[Hannah327]

Also to add to my post I just posted above, sorry I can’t find the edit button this time for some reason. I know you guys are probably tired of me by now but my baby boy is bleeding out the mouth is that because of teething? What can I do for him? Do I need to start ordering rodent blocks off of Henry’s?

[Spanky]

How much blood? Can you post a picture?

[Hannah327]

I should’ve taken a pic earlier but I was panicking. It isn’t bleeding right now and didn’t last very long when it happened. There was some on the nipple and a dark pink around his mouth when I wiped it off. If it happens again next feeding I will take a pic. Should I feed them every 4 1/2 hours or 5 hours and see if they take more?

[Spanky]

I should’ve taken a pic earlier but I was panicking. It isn’t bleeding right now and didn’t last very long when it happened. There was some on the nipple and a dark pink around his mouth when I wiped it off.

That does sound like teething, but pictures always help. How much do they weigh now?

[Spanky]

I should’ve taken a pic earlier but I was panicking. It isn’t bleeding right now and didn’t last very long when it happened. There was some on the nipple and a dark pink around his mouth when I wiped it off. If it happens again next feeding I will take a pic. Should I feed them every 4 1/2 hours or 5 hours and see if they take more?

No, they are not ready to go any longer than 4 hours.

This may seem strange, but will you post a picture of the syringes and nipples you are using? They really need t be eating more than they are...

[Hannah327]

Here is the blanket I used to wipe his mouth. It’s dried now but it may give an idea of how much. They haven’t been chewing on the nipples I’ve been using until last night. They do have bottom teeth and have for probably almost a week now. I’m about to take a pic of the nipples and syringes

[Hannah327]

Here are the nipples and syringes I ordered from Henry’s with the formula. They were doing a ton better with them until last night when they began more chewing than sucking. That’s when I tried to make them just lick it and it worked for a minute but that’s it. They are gaining weight every day. Here are their current weight this morning. Their milk line was still prevalent after 4 hours is why I was thinking I was feeding too often but you’re right that’s probably not the case. They pooped a lot so maybe that’s why they weren’t taking as much. But they were still pooping through the night.

[Spanky]

I am glad to see they continue to gain weight well, but I have to admit I surprised since they are not seeming to take enough formula for the weight gain they are having. Typically feedings are not extended to every 4 1/2 or 5 hours until they are 120grams (+/-).

[Hannah327]

What do you think I should do?

[McCarthy]

What do you think I should do?


I think they may be stressed a little. Do you handle them a lot between feedings? Is there a lot of noise in the room? Many people around? They can sense a hectic environment and become stubborn. I'd try to eliminate any stress and I'd try to calm them down before feeding. Did you try the humming trick by placing them on your neck. You really have to mimic a mama squirrel a little.

Watch some related videos on YouTube, like this one:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjZojoaVYG4

[Hannah327]

They aren’t really around any loud noises. I have a 7 year old son but he’s autistic and he’s really quiet the most noise he does is pacing back and fourth on my floors or asking me for something. The only time they are handled is during feedings or potty time. I have a pit bull but the only time he barks is when he needs to go outside. He is very protective over the babies and loves them but I keep them apart because when I release them I don’t want them to be used to dogs. I just fed them and did the humming and they all ate at least a half percent above their 5% weight! Baby girl #1 7%

[Hannah327]

They are still sneezing and clear stuff coming out when they do and I’ve made sure their bedding isn’t scented too much I really hope they don’t have or get pneumonia. I haven’t heard clicking with every breath though. They didn’t eat as much at all the last feeding and nobody pooped. I think they are having trouble going and it’s pretty hard.

[CritterMom]

They are still sneezing and clear stuff coming out when they do and I’ve made sure their bedding isn’t scented too much I really hope they don’t have or get pneumonia. I haven’t heard clicking with every breath though. They didn’t eat as much at all the last feeding and nobody pooped. I think they are having trouble going and it’s pretty hard.

It can be tough for these guys to adjust to the FV. Remember in my directions that I said to watch for that? So first, take a step back in the feeding. Instead of removing and replacing the goats milk with the FV, go back to what you were doing Day 1 and 2.

If this doesn't move things along, you can water down the FV a bit more. You are currently mixing it at 2 parts water to 1 part powder. Try 2.5 part water, or even 3 parts water to part powder for a feeding or two.

Describe how you are holding these babies to feed them. You should hold them so they are prone - on their belly, face down, with the syringe and nipple coming up into their mouth from below. Mama lays on her back, nipples pointing up, and the babies approach from the side, climb up and latch on in this position. If you are pointing the nipple DOWN their throat, instead of pointing UP toward the roof of the mouth, you can aspirate them, and the unnatural position could be contributing to your problems.

[Hannah327]

I was holding them wrapped in a blanket on their bellies with the nipple pointing up but now they move so much I sit in the floor with my knees almost to my chest and lay them over it and feed with nipple up. I will go back to day one. I have the other formulas sitting in the fridge I have to wait a few more hours to mix and use it though. I’m going to move them farther away from the stove in case that dehydrates them.

[Hannah327]

Also I read that feedings are unnecessary at night. That they can go from midnight to 6 in the morning that mom doesn’t feed through the night. Is this true? I’m waking up every 4 hours to feed. Really 3 1/2 so I can get the milk warmed and ready and then potty and feed. It takes me about an hour to feed and potty them all 45 min sometimes. So I’m still not getting much sleep but if I can sleep 6 hours through the night that would be great but I want to make sure they will be fine with that. It said they get enough feedings through the day that they don’t need it at night.

[Hannah327]

My baby boy is really having trouble pooping. I went back to day 1 when you said to. I’ve stimulated for minutes before and after feedings. It’s hard around his butt and bulgy. Should I give them water or honey water and a warm bath and massage? He’s pooping a little bit you can tell he’s struggling and it’s hurting him. The others are a little constipated as well but not like him. Please help! I’ve massaged their tummy’s during potties too

[CritterMom]

My baby boy is really having trouble pooping. I went back to day 1 when you said to. I’ve stimulated for minutes before and after feedings. It’s hard around his butt and bulgy. Should I give them water or honey water and a warm bath and massage? He’s pooping a little bit you can tell he’s struggling and it’s hurting him. The others are a little constipated as well but not like him. Please help! I’ve massaged their tummy’s during potties too

Yes. Give him water or honey water and also do the lower body soak and downward massage while he is in the warm water.

Ugh. We may need to transition them even more slowly than I originally suggested. A this rate they will be weaning by the time they get totally on to the FV.

In all of the places where I have suggested removing a TABLESPOON of goats milk formula and substituting a tablespoon of the FV (and 2 Tablespoons, and three, later in the transition), substitute a TEASPOON. In other words, remove a teaspoon of the GM and sub a teaspoon of the FV. Then, 2 days later, remove TWO teaspoons GM and replace with 2 teaspoons FV.

Everyone who is having trouble pooping needs to be soaked in warm water - use a deep bowl and just hang them in there up to the armpits for a few minutes before you start to gently stroke the tummies in a downward direction. Everyone who is having trouble pooping needs to be given some honey water, too.

[Mel1959]

You are mixing the FV one part powder to two parts hot water, right?

[CritterMom]

You are mixing the FV one part powder to two parts hot water, right?

Yeah, plus resting it in the fridge overnight to thoroughly absorb all the water...

I conversed with another poster via PM the other day - he started slowly transitioning to 20/50 from esbilac with a baby that was eating great and fat and sassy - in fact I linked to his thread earlier as an illustration of what a full baby should look like - and had the same issue. He totally stopped formula and did just hydration for a feeding or two and then went back to the plain esbilac. I think he is going to start an even slower transition in a week or two.

[Spanky]

I’m going to move them farther away from the stove in case that dehydrates them.

Giving 1ml or 2ml of water two hours after feeding cannot hurt and only help.


My baby boy is really having trouble pooping.

Are you sure there are no turds in their bin? I usually start finding poops in their bin around this age...


Also I read that feedings are unnecessary at night.

I always feed babies that are struggling around the clock, regardless of age, until everything is running smoothly....

[Hannah327]

I soaked and massaged them around 930. I didn’t have any luck. Their bellies aren’t hard but not soft. A little tight but around their butts are hard and bulged. Especially the boy. They do have a little poop in their bin and I change their bedding every day. but when I potty them they squirm and their butts look like they are really struggling. Their poop is still mustard colored and one of them has a darker tint than the others. I will try the teaspoon instead. I mixed up the goat milk mix and the vf mix last night and it’s been in the fridge setting so I will do the teaspoon idea next feeding. And yes I am mixing vf 1 part powder 2 parts water. I will continue to feed them through the night until they are thriving. And I will give 1-2 ml of honey water in between feedings until they start to regulate again. Maybe they are a tad bit dehydrated and that’s why they’re struggling. Hopefully when I get them fully hydrated they will go a little easier. They are peeing though and it’s not yellow I think that’s a good sign. When I first got them their urine was really dark.

[Hannah327]

This is what baby boys bottom looks like. I did get him to poop a little along with the others. I’m guessing this is a sign he’s constipated? It’s gone down quite a bit now and it’s hard around it. I’m guessing it’s lodged poop? And if so, will the girls look like this too if they’re constipated?

[Mel1959]

Continue with the warm water soaks. Apply a little coconut oil around his anus. You can offer some diluted prune juice or apple juice.