Broken hand!?

[Amylynn88]

I came home today and saw Jayne suckling on Zayne's genitals. I've been trying to make diapers for them but apparently they fell off. Well when I separated them, Zayne appeared to struggle to get upright. That's when I realized his hand was completely limp. I feed him and separated them.

What do I do? No rehabers will take him.

[Rock Monkey]

There is a good chance that the hand is just sprained. They refrain from weighting it so that it can heal. If it is a sprain you should see a little improvement everyday. If there are broken bones it could take 3+ weeks to heal. In that case the daily progress is slower.

Put him some place where he won't feel the need to jump. They can get about with just three limbs while things heal. They will use ramps if provided.

I had a squirrel that managed to do both, at different points in time. She is out in the wild, a successful mom and climbs just fine.

Can you post a picture of Zayne?

[Amylynn88]

Thank you for the reply. I had a pretty awful day yesterday and I think once Zayne's injury happened I assumed the worst.

He is bearing weight on his left hand now and it appears as if he only njured one of his fingers. I hope you're right about it being a strain. Once their diapers come in from Epsy, would putting him back with his sister be okay? They do rough house and little.

I will post a pic around 4ish for you.

[Rock Monkey]

Yes, a picture would be good.

I am wondering if the diaper will just cause a rash or be chewed off. I don't think it will work.

With the injured hand I would be inclined to separate the two. Ultimately you have to decide how rough things are getting, whether it is too much. They are wired to create dominance hierarchies.

It sounds like the injury is more like a sprain, the rate of progress will give that answer.

How old are they?

What does their diet consist of?

[Amylynn88]

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Here is a picture of his sister Jayne. This is the cage he was in when he got injured and I can't help but feel like he hurt it on the wire. I moved them to this cage because they were getting active.

They are on Esbilac: 3/4 and Fox Valley 20:50: 1/4
(I'm transitiong to Fox Valley). They eat 4cc every 4 hours with feeding in the night as well. They also have been offered Henry's healthy blocks today with minimal interest.

I think they are or nearing 5 weeks. Zayne has feeding seizures or guppy feeding (whatever y'all call it), so feeding him is more challenging and I feel that has always affected his weight.

As for the hand, it looks to me like he isn't weight bearing on it. My husband is the one who told me he is weight bearing and it seems to be affecting his finger, but I haven't seen it that way yet.

I feel so bad for him.

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Zayne's hand.

[Rock Monkey]

Note, squirrels are very emotionally sensitive, particularly with respect to their primary caretaker. So if you freak out, that will just freak them out, which is never helpful. They are bio feedback machines. So try to be aware when your emotions swing toward the pessimistic, dark side. We all do, because we love them dearly, we worry, but it just isn't helpful. They read you even if you never speak a word.

[Rock Monkey]

Is that 1/2" or 1/4" mesh on the hardware cloth?

Regarding the block, it takes them some time to develop a taste for it so that is why rehabbers try to get them to eat that before giving them other things. The block has the vitamins and minerals that captive squirrels need. These vitamins and minerals are currently being supplied by the formula.

Here is a video about feeding technique. Good technique is the best way to prevent problems which is always better than trying to solve problems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLjRlzTOGHY&ab_channel=squirrelsandmorellc

How much does each of them weigh?

[Rock Monkey]

Most squirrels don't take to block right away. They will start by shredding it and eventually they will come around to eating. If there is some in the cage and they might eat that if they get hungry rather than messing with each other.

[Amylynn88]

The mesh is a animal mesh at 1/4".

Zayne: 100g bumped food to 5cc
Jayne: 111g, bumped food to 6cc.

[Spanky]

I am sure it was not the hardware cloth / mesh that caused the injuring. The 1/2" and 1/2" mesh are both fine, the 1 inch mesh it not good because they tend to chew and misalign their teeth. Same reason we recommend 1/2" bar spacing in a store bought cage.

You can try to splint the foot / paw / arm but it is very tricky in these little ones. And extremely important that it not be wrapped too tight. Zayne is young enough he should be okay if this is an injury, still green stick bones. A video if his not placing weight or abnormal movement would be most helpful. You'll need to upload to a site like YouTube or Imgur and insert the link here, TSB platform does not support vids.

They open their eyes right around 5 weeks, I see Zayne's eyes look open in the pic.

I am attaching a feeding amount cheat cheat, these two might be wanting a bit more (upper limit) of formula.
319103

[Amylynn88]

So like the 7%?

[Spanky]

The 5% min, 7% max is a great guideline to be followed for babies from birth to 5 weeks. After 5 weeks they usually want more than the 5% and may well want a bit more than the 7%. :thumbsup

[Amylynn88]

So, are you saying they can eat as much as they desire or just a bit over the 7% is acceptable?

[Spanky]

So, are you saying they can eat as much as they desire or just a bit over the 7% is acceptable?

As much as they desire within reason. They may go up to as much as 9 - 10%, but you do not want to go up too fats (not one feeding to be 5% and the next to be 9%).

Some folks stick the the 5% like religion, but that is the minimum. The maximum 7% is to prevent babies (<5 weeks) from being overfed, because babies they will eat more than they should if allowed.

If their stools start loosening or turning white, they are getting too much. My reason for bring this up is that these guys seem to have been given a minimalist (amounts) diet to this point and I did not want to be afraid to let them eat more (7%) or being surprised or concerned if they want to take 8 or 9%

[Rock Monkey]

The mesh is a animal mesh at 1/4".


If wanted to be conservative/extra cautious you might replace the 1/4" hardware cloth with 1/2" hardware cloth. The 1/2" gives twice as much space for fingers to grab hold/to fit into. A finger likely got snagged/pinched somewhere. Look at the cage closely to make sure there aren't any pinch points around any of the platforms etc. Run your hand over the mesh to make sure there aren't any snags or irregularities, it should feel smooth.

It is normal for them to rough house together. They practice escape and evasion, which is a critical skill for a squirrel. In some cases the rough housing goes too far. You just need to keep an eye on them.

[Spanky]

I am willing to bet that is 1/2" hardware cloth in the pictures.

[Rock Monkey]

I am willing to bet that is 1/2" hardware cloth in the pictures.

From the picture that would imply that her top hands spans 1 1/2", as it spans three squares (3 x 1/2 = 1 1/2). That would imply that the corner block is 2 1/2" thick, five squares wide (5 x 1/2 = 2 1/2"). That would imply that the hinge was 5 1/2" long, 11 squares (11 x 1/2" = 5 1/2"). That would imply that she is 15" long, without the tail, almost 30 blocks in length.

[Amylynn88]

Zayne just seems off.

He's pooping, peeing. Has some bruising on his genitals from suckling but it's been looking better.

Jayne ate like 8cc and Zayne ate like 4cc..

He did have watery eyes yesterday (not today) and I question if he seems lethargic. He's eager to eat and will climb on my arms, he just seems weak and frail compared to Jayne.

The other day my husband was sawing some wood and he was twitching and chirping. Almost like he was trying to sleep but was horrified at the same time. I also wondered if he was over heating, but Jayne would have been affected as well. I went to touch him and he was very frightened and disoriented it seemed. I brought him inside in a quiet room with white noise and the behavior stopped.

I don't hear clicking when he breaths. No skin conditions. Elimimates waste. Eats but eats with 'feeding seizures' and not always 5% of his weight. He is gaining weight. His hand still is affected. He is warm but does seem to cool very quickly and shivers. I've started feeding him on a heating pad.

https://youtube.com/shorts/GYNNM8wemMA?feature=share

Here is a video of his movements with that hand.

[Spanky]

Is Zayne peeing okay? Often suckling will make it difficult, and sometimes impossible, for them to pee without some help.

That left arm / paw is definitely compromised, I so wish you had a place to get that x-rayed.

Some ideas to try to get Zayne eating more:
1) Temp. Experiment with the formula temperature, some like it warmer than you might think.
2) Potty. Try to potty him if he stops eating before taking at least 5%, then try offering more formula.

Hopefully the arm will heal with time and he'll fully recover. Positive signs would be move movement of course, but watch for him to start spreading out those fingers on that left paw. He is not really extending the fingers, grasping or using that hand. Could be a fracture or even some sort of nerve damage.

While a long shot, examine his arm to make certain there is not any thread, string or even something as small as a human hair wrapped around it. We have seen even a single strand of human hair strangling circulation in limbs (these were much smaller babies admittedly, but worth a few minutes of investigation).

I'd be less concerned with Zayne's reaction to the sawing noise versus Jayne. It's not uncommon for siblings to have very different reactions to various things... keep in mind nature intended for these babies to be snuggled in a nest right now with very little interaction with the outside world. So they are way out of their element. Zayne also may be well aware he is compromised with his arm injury, so it may be simply a result of being more leery of any potential dangers. Jayne may just be more confident in her "escape and evade abilities".

[Amylynn88]

Thanks for the info. Zayne is peeing. I stimulate before, between (as I heat another syringe), and after. I have also tried many different temperatures. I will check for the things mentioned on his hand (human hair ect).

Zayne seems much better today and I believe I caught him attempting to climb the mesh. I tried to see how he was manipulating his fingers but never got the opportunity. His legs never engaged in the climbing attempt, so there was minimal weight bearing.

I took them outside and laid in the grass with them to get a little sun. I was surprised to see Zayne exploring and scanning his environment while Jayne sought me for comfort.

Later today I will post weights and how much they're eating as well as a new video of Zayne's hand.

[Amylynn88]

Jayne is now: 133g. Ate 3 1/2 ccs. Voided.
Zayne: 115g. Ate 4cc. No elimination.

Haven't seen him abduct fingers or bend the fingers on his left hand. No sign of injury, no wrapped hair.

His behavior is typical, wants to climb but can't.

Video: https://youtu.be/3xkvbX0kTHA

I couldn't get him to stay out. He was tired.

[Rock Monkey]

I took them outside and laid in the grass with them to get a little sun. I was surprised to see Zayne exploring and scanning his environment while Jayne sought me for comfort.


We do not advise taking squirrel's outside unless they are in a cage. This is to keep them safe from predators, both aerial and land based. It is also to prevent them from running away and hiding where you can't find them. This might seem unlikely now, but it won't be long before they become quite quick and can move with total stealth, turn your head for a second and they are gone.

Even in a cage they should be supervised at all times, right there beside them, and not be put in the direct sun in the summer when it is hot. They can dehydrate.

Their instincts tell them to seek cover. A squirrel which just lies around in the open, oblivious won't be alive for long.

It does look like Zayne's hand is getting better, which is a good thing. Continue to keep an eye on him and how the two of them interact.

As I watched the video of Zayne moving in the vicinity of his cage I noticed that all along the corner the wires from where the hardware cloth was cut was sticking out proud of the wood. This is a hazard to them (and to humans). They are quite clutzy and eventually they will start moving very fast. They might get a nasty cut. Worst case scenario would be damage to they eye.

I would trim these protruding horizontal wires back, preferably to the next vertical string of wire.

It is normal for them to nap a lot at this age and sleeping helps with the healing process.

[Amylynn88]

Yeah, I can trim the wires. I will be mindful about taking them outside, and not let them out of their cage.

My new question here is when I can offer them water and if I can do so with a hamster bottle (forget what they're actually called) or with a small saucer of water?

Zayne is now climbing and his hand is almost back to normal. Thank goodness.

[Spanky]

My new question here is when I can offer them water and if I can do so with a hamster bottle (forget what they're actually called) or with a small saucer of water?

Good news on Zayne and his hand! :woot

Yes to the water... bottles are fine. Saucers, best to place marbles or stones in the bottom and keep teh water shallow. Babies tend to stick their nose too deep until they understand how to drink from "standing water". You might just stick with a hamster bottle... I usually use a saucer only when treating injured wilds. :thumbsup

[Rock Monkey]

My new question here is when I can offer them water and if I can do so with a hamster bottle (forget what they're actually called) or with a small saucer of water?


Yes, the water bottle is very much preferable, safer. They are clutzy at this age. Drinking safely from a dish requires fine, precise motor balance and they just don't have it at this stage of their lives, plus young squirrels have a binge tendency which can lead them to choke. A water dish represents an aspiration hazard, rather just submerging their mouth their nose sometimes also goes underwater, which can lead to AP which can readily be fatal, especially in young squirrels. Plus, they can kick stuff in the dish as the squirm, frolic and play, or maybe even poop or pee in it. So the dish can become a bacterial breeding ground. They can't knock anything into a water bottle.

Read the water bottle manufacturer's instructions carefully. Make sure that the bottle isn't leaking. The bedding can become totally soaked and visually not be obvious. Some bottle are poorly built and will always leak and sometimes it is simply a failure to follow the directions.

I got an all glass and stainless steel water 6 oz. water bottle from Lixit which I bought on Amazon which I am happy with. The 12 oz. bottle they sell has a plastic cap rather than stainless and squirrels love to chew, so I don't recommend that size.

Be sure to change the bottle every couple of days. Clean it with hot water.

When you install a water bottle always rub your finger across the ball at the end of the spout to be sure that water will come out when they lick on it. Some bottles can become vapor locked and no water comes out.

[Amylynn88]

I have so many questions and you guys have been great with answering them, thank you.

New questions:
1. Do I need to start being cautious of being bit? From what I've read, it's generally the hormonal or older squirrels that bite. Is it common pre-release?

2. I have been reading on how to release the squirrels. I have a very large sugar maple tree in my front yard. Will this tree suffice to release them in? The tree is higher than the 2-story house.
I know it's not a preferred tree and that they like a wide variety, I just can't facilitate a different location.

3. My squirrels will be released in October, in Minnesota. I'm worried that this isn't enough time for them to get established before winter.

[Spanky]

1. Do I need to start being cautious of being bit? From what I've read, it's generally the hormonal or older squirrels that bite. Is it common pre-release?

You do not really need to worry about disease from a bite. Pain, can be extremely painful, yes. Treat any bites like any other puncture wound (e.g. antibiotic ointment / cream, keep it clean etc.).

I'd say this really comes down to the personality of each squirrel. Most my releases, I have no worries or concerns about being bitten right through release. Even bare hand them into a transfer cage to be moved to the release cage. Then there are those few that starting around age 12 - 14 I'd not be willing to even place a food dish into their cage bare handed.


2. I have been reading on how to release the squirrels. I have a very large sugar maple tree in my front yard. Will this tree suffice to release them in? The tree is higher than the 2-story house. I know it's not a preferred tree and that they like a wide variety, I just can't facilitate a different location.

Have you read the soft release procedures? If this is a single tree, it is not ideal. Squirrels are hard-wired to not climb the trunk of the tree they nest in... for the most part they will use the "tree-way free-way"; climb an adjacent tree then climb the branches from one to another. This is to prevent leaving sent behind for climbing predators like raccoons or cats from following their scent up into the nest tree.

Do you have any concerns about a cage with squirrels int eh front yard drawing unwanted attention??

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?41071-SOFT-RELEASE-The-How-to-Sticky



3. My squirrels will be released in October, in Minnesota. I'm worried that this isn't enough time for them to get established before winter.

This one I will leave to the folks with experience in the northern states....

[Amylynn88]

We have an outdoor cat but I've never seen him go after anything their size and tends to go in the backyard where there is grass land.

I can put the release box up really high if needed and raise and lower it with pullies. I've never seen any other critters around here.

Could I release in that sugar maple tree if I place the release box here?