My NR is depressed and I don't know why

[MotherOfBadgers]

She's just been sleeping a lot and doesn't come out of her cage or even her bed much lately.

[TubeDriver]

Can you tell us a bit more about her? How old is she? What is her daily diet? Still pooping and peeing normally?



She's just been sleeping a lot and doesn't come out of her cage or even her bed much lately.

[MotherOfBadgers]

She will be 2 years old this September. I've had her since she was a pinkie, before eyes and ears opened and before any fur. Never meant to keep her but when the time came she was terrified of the outdoors and refused to leave so I accepted that she's part of the family. Soon realized she had maligned lower teeth that needed manual trimming, thus solidified NR, so here we are.

She weighs 1.25lb. She eats Henrys Blocks. Almonds or walnuts sometimes. I give her a D or calcium gummy every once in a while. Last night was tooth trim/nail/bath night so got a good sampling of the poop, lots of volume and normal color and consistency. Also got a good examination of her body. No injuries, cuts, sore spots, broken bones, nothing.

Routine... She gets locked in the cage when I go to bed or when I go out and when I'm home/awake the top door is left open so she can come in and out as she wants. She wears a bell so I always know where she is. If I can't pay attention then I put her in a safety ball or harness and leash attached to me. Usually she will come out and run around, chase the dogs for a bit, play with me or her toys, and then either come to me to sleep in my shirt or go back in her cage to sleep until she wakes up either hungry or wanting to play more.

The past week or so she's just staying in her bed in her cage. When I call her name she will pop her head out and look at me and sorta tuck back in and roll over and go back to sleep. If I stick my hand in she will still "play rubsies" and spread open for armpit scratches and belly scratches. She doesn't give me a hard time taking her out of the cage or bed but just putting her on my shoulder or in my shirt she just wants to get up and go back to the bed in the cage.

It's been rainy and dark for the past week here, wondering if that's got something to do with it. I also had new blinds installed by her window which I have kept drawn and a few days ago made that connection so ive pulled them up and have left them up but no sunshine anyway.

I talk to her and sing to her and make this weird "whargarbl" kinda sound that usually drives her wild with excitement and these days she's just waking up, looking at me, shrugging and rolling over and going back to sleep.

She's still eating fine but she's not as enthusiastic about it as she normally is.

[TubeDriver]

Nothing really jumps out as a possible issue. Although Henry's blocks are designed to be fed along with healthy veggies. Henry's blocks are excellent and can be the cornerstone of a healthy diet but she should still be getting healthy veggies at least 4-5 days a week along with her block.

Here is a diagram of healthy veggies, fruits etc:

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?39275-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels-(Revised-2-13)

We have seen behavior similar to this with UTIs so check her private parts to make sure everything seems normal. I think she should get some sunshine through windows when possible but always give her the option of getting out of the sun in case she starts to overheat.




She will be 2 years old this September. I've had her since she was a pinkie, before eyes and ears opened and before any fur. Never meant to keep her but when the time came she was terrified of the outdoors and refused to leave so I accepted that she's part of the family. Soon realized she had maligned lower teeth that needed manual trimming, thus solidified NR, so here we are.

She weighs 1.25lb. She eats Henrys Blocks. Almonds or walnuts sometimes. I give her a D or calcium gummy every once in a while. Last night was tooth trim/nail/bath night so got a good sampling of the poop, lots of volume and normal color and consistency. Also got a good examination of her body. No injuries, cuts, sore spots, broken bones, nothing.

Routine... She gets locked in the cage when I go to bed or when I go out and when I'm home/awake the top door is left open so she can come in and out as she wants. She wears a bell so I always know where she is. If I can't pay attention then I put her in a safety ball or harness and leash attached to me. Usually she will come out and run around, chase the dogs for a bit, play with me or her toys, and then either come to me to sleep in my shirt or go back in her cage to sleep until she wakes up either hungry or wanting to play more.

The past week or so she's just staying in her bed in her cage. When I call her name she will pop her head out and look at me and sorta tuck back in and roll over and go back to sleep. If I stick my hand in she will still "play rubsies" and spread open for armpit scratches and belly scratches. She doesn't give me a hard time taking her out of the cage or bed but just putting her on my shoulder or in my shirt she just wants to get up and go back to the bed in the cage.

It's been rainy and dark for the past week here, wondering if that's got something to do with it. I also had new blinds installed by her window which I have kept drawn and a few days ago made that connection so ive pulled them up and have left them up but no sunshine anyway.

I talk to her and sing to her and make this weird "whargarbl" kinda sound that usually drives her wild with excitement and these days she's just waking up, looking at me, shrugging and rolling over and going back to sleep.

She's still eating fine but she's not as enthusiastic about it as she normally is.

[sundoesshine]

We have seen behavior similar to this with UTIs so check her private parts to make sure everything seems normal.
We had a cat with all sorts of issues so I got small bag of that cat litter that will change colors if there is blood in the urine etc. I'd just sprinkle some onto the pee or place some in the bottom of her cage? Sorry to hear your girl is down:(

[Rock Monkey]

You mentioned problems with her teeth. Do you see any changes with her teeth are they the same as always? It sounds like there is no reluctance to eat hard foods.

Does she stare out the window or try to get out?

The drive to mate and reproduce is very strong. She might be depressed by the lack of that. All of the other wild females are out there having babies. Has she exhibited any similar behavior previously?

[MotherOfBadgers]

Her teeth are the same as always and being trimmed on the usual schedule. She avoids the outside like the plague. When it's nice I bring her outside on a leash and harness and put her in trees and grass and she just runs back onto me and crawls into my shirt and tries to dig into my chest terrified and screaming as I try to pull her out to put her back in grass and trees. She never looks at the window or outside longingly or even curiously.

And no she's never been depressed like this. She's only ever been "bed ridden" when injured or ill. I've forced her out and she has just laid on my thigh sprawled out flat on her belly sorta pouting. She didn't want to play wrestle or "I'm gonna getcha" or with "simba on a string," or any of her other toys, she didn't wanna play chase... She didn't want to go garbage diving or trying to sneak behind the couch or behind the oven or atop the fridge. She didn't want to pester the female dog or go look for the boy who's been unwell or go dive for iced tea. She's completely disinterested in everything.

She is responsive to petting, affectionate and all that still. Leans into the scratches and rubs. But she's not initiating.

I've examined her thoroughly and can find no indication of injury or illness. Her teeth trims have been on time so her upper palate isn't even the slightest bit raw which once in a while will happen and result in somewhat similar behavior from her (excessive sleep paired with some agitation, this time no agitation).

Her cage is large enough that half of the upper half is in front of a window and the rest is not directly in front of a window. I have carefully placed blankets and curtains on the cage to give shady sections and well lit sections all over, and there's a door left open as long as I am home and awake so if she's uncomfortable or too hot/cold/bright/dark in the cage she can always exit to find somewhere else more comfortable.

Yesterday she had a "freak out" -- she has these once in a while. She startles for some reason and runs around the cage and refuses to come to me and just seems afraid or upset. No tail warning flicks and no chittering or barking sounds, just basically running around the cage as if it were a wheel until she exhausted herself and retreated into a bed where I stuck a hand in and cradled her head in my hand and rolled it (petting) and just mushed on her, to no protest. Trying to remove her from the bed was when she started making disturbed noises and got upset and didn't wanna come out.

Do you guys really think that she could truly be feeling depressed because she isn't breeding? Even though she hasn't been subjected to mating season or females in heat (aside from herself I suppose) or males looking to get in there? Would it be in her interest to seek out a male to mate with, allowing her to have sex hopefully not get pregnant, but allow it anyway with the understanding and resolve that these babies are going to be released?

Is mating truly that big a deal for them? What I've read they are only actually IN estrus (aka "horny" or feeling the urge) for a short period of time, like hours, sporadically, during a week or two within a window of approximately 2 months twice a year. This would be her first year "fully" "reproductively matured" (I'd say as her mother, even though she still makes infant mommy cries for me sometimes and still tries to suckle from me and still demands a bottle sometimes, swaddle and all... sigh). I can't imagine her mothering. She's met babies that I have rescued and released or moved onto other rehabbers and she has always had an attitude of "ew, get it away from me..."

Anyway... She is still depressed today. I've been up since morning, long before the sun rose, and the window's been open (screen in) with the sun shining and cage doors all open and I've been wagarbling her (making the noises she knows indicates playtime) and singing and stuff and petting her every time I come by and she's just "meh." It's making ME depressed. For real. A friend asked me to go out and I told her no, I can't, my squirrel is depressed. Luckily she's an animal person and understands. But hearing myself saying it I feel crazy. I wanna do what Sterling is doing. I wanna go lay in bed and just not get up.

I'm about to walk the dogs and I think I'm gonna take her out with us to see if she wants to say hi to the neighbors. Maybe see if she wants to climb a tree or check out a wild squirrel since you bring up the mating stuff. Sigh.

Actually...

My boy, the dog, he usually lays by her cage quite a bit. She likes to throw things at him from inside the cage and make him fetch... he has not been well lately and has needed to be medicated with gabapentin so he's been sleeping a lot and he has been intermittently on crate rest but is largely staying in bed in my bedroom, or in his crate in the dog bedroom, which Sterling isn't allowed in either room at the moment (never allowed in my bedroom and atm not allowed in the dog room when Apache needs his crate rest). Is it possible she misses the dog?

I mean he hasn't completely disappeared, he's just not around nearly as much for a good 2-3 weeks now. He does come out by her cage for mealtime and med time and for me to do checkups. He also does come by to check on her too it seems. Sniffing her cage, even if he cant see her it seems he knows she's there. He strolls around a little, stretching his legs I guess. But she doesn't seem to wake up when he's out there or notice him by her cage area... Sterling also does have open cage access to get up and go looking for Apache, but I haven't seen her do it aside from once at the very start on his first day of crate rest. She was in the dogs' bedroom climbing around the exterior of his crate and sorta disrupting his rest, causing him to stand up and lift his head and fidget when he needed to be laying flat on his side, so I had to take her out of the room and lock her out. She did go back to the door a few times that first day but I kept removing her and telling her Apache needs to rest and to go play with TurkeyMash instead.

[Rock Monkey]

The urge to reproduce is extremely powerful. In squirrels I think the only thing more powerful is the survival instinct. The genes of a squirrel that does not reproduce are removed from the gene pool. So, the genes in the gene pool are from those squirrels that had a powerful urge to reproduce and did so successfully. The harsh survival statistics for young squirrels means that the more children a squirrel sires, the greater the chance that one or more will live to have their own children. That is how success is assessed in the Darwinian calculus.

That said, Sterling doesn’t seem to have any strong inclination to get out there, which goes hand in hand with the drive to reproduce. Yes, the female is only in heat for approximately eight hours. However, it seems pretty clear that the female indirectly controls when the heat occurs. If conditions are bad, if food is very scarce, the female doesn’t go into heat. If conditions are unsuitable likewise the female doesn’t go into heat. I think most females regard being captive an unsuitable condition. If a female loses her offspring, she may go into heat again and have another brood.

Even though fear seems to lead her to retreat from the outdoors that doesn’t mean her urge to be a mother is totally squelched. In her case it is just in conflict with an even more powerful instinct, the instinct to survive, to avoid danger.

Possibly she may also be a little confused about what she is, given her daily companions, she may think she is some sort of human or some sort of dog.

As I see it, given the information provided, Sterling has three strong reasons to be depressed. (Note, squirrels are extraordinarily sensitive and empathic, probably more so that most humans. They have to be in order to survive, to read their environment and to anticipate trouble before it is too late. An oblivious squirrel won’t last long in the wild.)

Firstly, it sounds like Sterling has a strong bond with one of your dogs, Apache, and that companionship is an integral part of her daily life. So much so that she has repeatedly sought ought the companionship of this dog. She no longer has that companionship.

Secondly, being very empathic she likely senses that Apache is struggling physically and emotionally.

Thirdly, she doesn’t understand why her friend needs crate rest. So, likewise she doesn’t understand why you have rebuked her and denied her the companionship of a good friend. She doesn’t know what she did wrong, she is just doing things she has always done and is confused.

Lastly, she may have some physical ailment of her own, like, as suggested, possibly a UTI or something else.

[MotherOfBadgers]

The urge to reproduce is extremely powerful. In squirrels I think the only thing more powerful is the survival instinct. The genes of a squirrel that does not reproduce are removed from the gene pool. So, the genes in the gene pool are from those squirrels that had a powerful urge to reproduce and did so successfully. The harsh survival statistics for young squirrels means that the more children a squirrel sires, the greater the chance that one or more will live to have their own children. That is how success is assessed in the Darwinian calculus.

That said, Sterling doesn’t seem to have any strong inclination to get out there, which goes hand in hand with the drive to reproduce. Yes, the female is only in heat for approximately eight hours. However, it seems pretty clear that the female indirectly controls when the heat occurs. If conditions are bad, if food is very scarce, the female doesn’t go into heat. If conditions are unsuitable likewise the female doesn’t go into heat. I think most females regard being captive an unsuitable condition. If a female loses her offspring, she may go into heat again and have another brood.

Even though fear seems to lead her to retreat from the outdoors that doesn’t mean her urge to be a mother is totally squelched. In her case it is just in conflict with an even more powerful instinct, the instinct to survive, to avoid danger.

Possibly she may also be a little confused about what she is, given her daily companions, she may think she is some sort of human or some sort of dog.

As I see it, given the information provided, Sterling has three strong reasons to be depressed. (Note, squirrels are extraordinarily sensitive and empathic, probably more so that most humans. They have to be in order to survive, to read their environment and to anticipate trouble before it is too late. An oblivious squirrel won’t last long in the wild.)

Firstly, it sounds like Sterling has a strong bond with one of your dogs, Apache, and that companionship is an integral part of her daily life. So much so that she has repeatedly sought ought the companionship of this dog. She no longer has that companionship.

Secondly, being very empathic she likely senses that Apache is struggling physically and emotionally.

Thirdly, she doesn’t understand why her friend needs crate rest. So, likewise she doesn’t understand why you have rebuked her and denied her the companionship of a good friend. She doesn’t know what she did wrong, she is just doing things she has always done and is confused.

Lastly, she may have some physical ailment of her own, like, as suggested, possibly a UTI or something else.

Is there anything I can do to help her on that mating front without amassing a bunch of squirrels?

Regarding Apache... I will move his crate beside her cage and see if that helps. He still needs another two weeks crate rest as per vets orders. I still can't let him just roam free because he's jumping too much and re-injuring himself, and I can't let Sterling climb on his crate while he's trying to rest because it's defeating the purpose of his rest.

If she is depressed because of Apache... surely when his crate rest is over and days go back to normal she will readjust, right?

This makes me worried about what's gonna happen when Apache passes away. He is 11 and has suffered a severe neck injury. Even at peak condition I've probably got at best another five years before he goes.

[sundoesshine]

Regarding Apache... I will move his crate beside her cage and see if that helps.
I agree that perhaps she feels as if she has done something wrong or is just down due to having his presence removed. If you think about how much less stimulation a nr squirrel has in comparison to a wild, just her exposure to Apache is probably more important than we realize. Hope it's as simple as that and she perks up soon.

[MotherOfBadgers]

I agree that perhaps she feels as if she has done something wrong or is just down due to having his presence removed. If you think about how much less stimulation a nr squirrel has in comparison to a wild, just her exposure to Apache is probably more important than we realize. Hope it's as simple as that and she perks up soon.

I had to give the dog a sedative to keep him calm and a sleep, but Sterling is at least outside of her cage on her own now, just laying on her belly spread eagle rubbing her face on the roof of the dog crate bars. Took her a few hours to realize that he was near her cage but once she did she explored right away. She's mostly just watching Apache laying there, looking over to me inquisitively. She climbed around the whole crate a few times. Figured out the lock and let herself in once. I had to put some locks on the doors. She's taken some nesting stuffing from her beds and thrown it into the crate. Tries to get the dog food and keeps splashing in the water bowl, but mostly just laying on the top above Apache's head and shoulders area. Still seems depressed but outside the cage depressed. I wonder if she thinks he's dying. Also… I feel little stupid for not considering some thing so obvious sooner. Thank you very much for triggering the thought in my mind and for making the suggestion. I do however feel that there is a little more going on than just this, unfortunately.

[Rock Monkey]

Thank you very much for triggering the thought in my mind and for making the suggestion. I do however feel that there is a little more going on than just this, unfortunately.

Yes, there are probably multiple aspects to this. Sterling and Apache clearly have a close bond. I would be certain that she knows Apache isn't well. The confinement also probably depresses Apache. So, sort of a vicious circle.

Regarding the urge to reproduce, think about the typical rehabbed squirrel. They have grown up living in a very safe environment, one in which all of the food they desire is provided. (Well, not all of the nuts they desire.) It is warm and it is dry. Yet still their need to reproduce over rides their need for safety and the older they get more they want to be outside.

Also, just because Sterling doesn't show an interest in other baby squirrels that doesn't mean she doesn't want her own. (It is a very rare thing for greys to take care of the babies of others.) Do any males come around when you are taking Sterling for a walk when she is outside? I don't know how this would work, something to think about. Physically, heat is something the female initiates, depending on her subconscious perceptions of conditions. Regarding the babies, eventually, when Mom thinks they are ready, Mom pushes the babies out into the world. Sometimes a daughter might stay with Mom during the winter.

Also, you being depressed about the situation is probably reinforcing Sterling's depression. Our gloomy thoughts can definitely lead to their gloomy thoughts. They read us intimately.

[MotherOfBadgers]

Yes, there are probably multiple aspects to this. Sterling and Apache clearly have a close bond. I would be certain that she knows Apache isn't well. The confinement also probably depresses Apache. So, sort of a vicious circle.

Regarding the urge to reproduce, think about the typical rehabbed squirrel. They have grown up living in a very safe environment, one in which all of the food they desire is provided. (Well, not all of the nuts they desire.) It is warm and it is dry. Yet still their need to reproduce over rides their need for safety and the older they get more they want to be outside.

Also, just because Sterling doesn't show an interest in other baby squirrels that doesn't mean she doesn't want her own. (It is a very rare thing for greys to take care of the babies of others.) Do any males come around when you are taking Sterling for a walk when she is outside? I don't know how this would work, something to think about. Physically, heat is something the female initiates, depending on her subconscious perceptions of conditions. Regarding the babies, eventually, when Mom thinks they are ready, Mom pushes the babies out into the world. Sometimes a daughter might stay with Mom during the winter.

Also, you being depressed about the situation is probably reinforcing Sterling's depression. Our gloomy thoughts can definitely lead to their gloomy thoughts. They read us intimately.

No wilds approach because she refuses to get off of my body or another human body or one of the dogs when outside.

She's perked up a lot since yesterday. What's kinda sad is that Mash wants Sterling, Sterling wants Apache, and Apache is indifferent if not outright aversive sometimes. Love Square in my house. If dad were alive and living with me we would be arguing I'm sure because he would want to sleep with Sterling in his bed lol.

Apache tolerates her. He will let her walk on him but he gets up when she messes his fur too much or fiddles with his collar tags too much. He lays along side her cage. He eats the food she throws at him. He brings her toys back to her cage. When she jumps off his face like a springboard he will open it and give taught cheeks but no growling or biting. I think it's more of him being a good boy than a reflection of his feelings about her. I think she loves him more than he cares about her. But really I don't know. Some of the things he does have no explanation if he truly doesn't care. Maybe it's just "part of the pack" mentality" and he thinks she's a puppy? He has always been very very patient and protective of puppies and babies of all species in general.

But she is so much happier today than yesterday. Apache is still sedated and she still can't touch him but she's running around and playing with the other dog and coming to iced tea dive and just be playful. She's dragged all the bedding out of her cage and made a little nest atop Apache's cage and she naps there now. I'll put it in her cage for bedtime and take it out tomorrow when I wake up.

I'm relieved. The whole house has been feeling down but once it hit the squirrel I knew that things were BAD and something had to change.

[sundoesshine]

She's dragged all the bedding out of her cage and made a little nest atop Apache's cage and she naps there now.
OMGosh, she's having a sleep over on Apache's cage. It's like she knows his cage could be moved into the other room so it's her way of communicating nope, he's staying right here for the day.

I could see how you wouldn't think his illness would affect her esp since he is nonchalant towards her, maybe he's like the big older brother that the little sister worships. RM is always saying how empathetic they are and I very much agree. Mine literally did a hop and skip after I forgave him once.

At the risk of sounding cuck coo, you might want to just sit with Apache and Sterling and explain to her what's happening, that neither has done anything wrong, it's all temporary, in a confident and reassuring tone as the pack leader. I swear they get the emotions we convey. So glad to hear she's a bit better today.

[MotherOfBadgers]

OMGosh, she's having a sleep over on Apache's cage. It's like she knows his cage could be moved into the other room so it's her way of communicating nope, he's staying right here for the day.

I could see how you wouldn't think his illness would affect her esp since he is nonchalant towards her, maybe he's like the big older brother that the little sister worships. RM is always saying how empathetic they are and I very much agree. Mine literally did a hop and skip after I forgave him once.

At the risk of sounding cuck coo, you might want to just sit with Apache and Sterling and explain to her what's happening, that neither has done anything wrong, it's all temporary, in a confident and reassuring tone as the pack leader. I swear they get the emotions we convey. So glad to hear she's a bit better today.

She got in his crate again and was playing with his penis while he was sedated into a deep sleep and i had to remove her again.

Everyone is going to the vet on Monday, even me and mash whether we need it or not.

With what Rock Monkey has said... I have a... bizarre idea about what Sterling really wants and thinks and I can only hope it's not the case but I'm afraid to say it lest I jinx it. I just need to hear the vet say it before I repeat it. If it's what I think then I'm really just screwed.

[sundoesshine]

She got in his crate again and was playing with his penis while he was sedated into a deep sleep and i had to remove her again.

Everyone is going to the vet on Monday, even me and mash whether we need it or not.

With what Rock Monkey has said... I have a... bizarre idea about what Sterling really wants and thinks and I can only hope it's not the case but I'm afraid to say it lest I jinx it. I just need to hear the vet say it before I repeat it. If it's what I think then I'm really just screwed.

:eek Oh my!

[Chirps]

Just seeing this thread. Wow. Wow! I have no doubt from reading that she misses her interactions with Apache. Absolutely she knows something's wrong with him. Even if she's not empathetic in the anthropomorphic way, like worried about her friend, she HAS to be out of sorts at the least because her routine and a big part of it has changed. I agree with sundoesshine about how important Apache and the stimulation he provides must be to her.

I was blown away that she threw nesting material into the crate. That's almost like trying to make her friend more cozy or something. Also that she moved her nest to the top of Apache's crate. Seems a pretty clear message there. I thought, "OMG, that's ADORABLE!!!" . . . Until reading . . . "She got in his crate again and was playing with . . . "

That had me both :eek and :thinking

Reading between the lines, are you wondering if she wants a "different" kind of relationship with him? Maybe she was just playing with what was available? If he was pretty much out cold, maybe she had tried other body parts and got no response, so was trying that next? You said he needs to lie flat on his side, so maybe it was the first time she had access to that area and was checking it out? What breed is Apache?

"Everyone is going to the vet on Monday, even me and Mash whether we need it or not."
Hmm. Maybe not the vet for you but the liquor store? :grin2 Sorry, just trying to inject some levity.

[MotherOfBadgers]

Just seeing this thread. Wow. Wow! I have no doubt from reading that she misses her interactions with Apache. Absolutely she knows something's wrong with him. Even if she's not empathetic in the anthropomorphic way, like worried about her friend, she HAS to be out of sorts at the least because her routine and a big part of it has changed. I agree with sundoesshine about how important Apache and the stimulation he provides must be to her.

I was blown away that she threw nesting material into the crate. That's almost like trying to make her friend more cozy or something. Also that she moved her nest to the top of Apache's crate. Seems a pretty clear message there. I thought, "OMG, that's ADORABLE!!!" . . . Until reading . . . "She got in his crate again and was playing with . . . "

That had me both :eek and :thinking

Reading between the lines, are you wondering if she wants a "different" kind of relationship with him? Maybe she was just playing with what was available? If he was pretty much out cold, maybe she had tried other body parts and got no response, so was trying that next? You said he needs to lie flat on his side, so maybe it was the first time she had access to that area and was checking it out? What breed is Apache?

"Everyone is going to the vet on Monday, even me and Mash whether we need it or not."
Hmm. Maybe not the vet for you but the liquor store? :grin2 Sorry, just trying to inject some levity.

SO! I got a voicemail from the vet at an ungodly hour in the middle of the night. Mash isn't sick; so don't bring her in. Apache still cannot be moved; so don't bring him unless its an emergency. Sterling doesn't seem "sick" and I don't need to bring her in. If behavior persists the vet wants to see the squirrel and the dog (Apache) TOGETHER but .......

"It sounds like the squirrel decided the dog is her mate."

Decided! LOL

The dog is an 87lb dutch shepherd. :laugh2

And she was sorta just swatting at his penis. Like slapping it with each hand back and forth. Sorta how they move when they're trying to bury food. It was kinda funny. She does it to his ears too. She does it to his lips/mouth also, usually with food, andhe just eats it, and she gets confused about where the food disappeared to, and like sticks her head in his mouth to look for it. It's funny. Anyway, I went to grab the phone to get a video but she moved by the time I got back. I don't think she knows what his penis is or what function it serves. He's neutered too so... NOT GONNA HELP YA THERE STERLING! And I don't think it's gonna fit!

I've read about MALE squirrels getting territorial over female other-species animals (even humans) and claiming them as their mates (never attempting actual mating), but never a female squirrel...

I wish the vet would call and actively speak to me and answer questions. So frustrating.

Whatever. She's happy with his crate near her cage. It's 2 more weeks hopefully as long as I keep him still. Hopefully she wont be dangling from his bits when he's up and walking around again, that might annoy him. When he's ready to go back in the car the two will go to the vet and hopefully the vet will let me inside for the visit cuz I'll be fully covid vaccinated by then.

But yes, this was my fear that I didn't wanna jinx by uttering.

MY FAMILY! Sigh. /facepalm. My first world problems. "My squirrel is depressed because my dog (who is 87x her size) doesnt wanna be her boyfriend"

[island rehabber]

MY FAMILY! Sigh. /facepalm. My first world problems. "My squirrel is depressed because my dog (who is 87x her size) doesnt wanna be her boyfriend"

:laugh2:yeahthat :rofl4

[sundoesshine]

Maybe she was just playing with what was available? If he was pretty much out cold, maybe she had tried other body parts and got no response, so was trying that next? You said he needs to lie flat on his side, so maybe it was the first time she had access to that area and was checking it out? What breed is Apache?
Yes, that seems right on. Once again she's a nr so all those urges to explore and play have to go somewhere! Mine has a spot in the yard that he plays in, so he's got that need even though he's free.

[Rock Monkey]

I had to give the dog a sedative to keep him calm and a sleep, I wonder if she thinks he's dying.

I believe that Apache's sedation leads Sterling to believe that his healthy is far worse than it actually is. I think part of her playing rough with him is her attempt to revive, to rouse him from this sedated state. It's like she is saying "Don't go for the Big Sleep." She is messing with other parts of his body too, she just happened to find a part that responds automatically. So her inclination might not be so carnal as you construe it.

However, I do believe she isn't quite sure what she is. She might think that she is some sort of dog. So, she might regard Apache as some sort of potential mate. I am sure that squirrels know who is male and who is female based on the smell of hormones, given their very sensitive sense of smell.

I am glad to hear that Sterling is feeling somewhat better. Hopefully she will feel a lot better when Apache's crate rest ends and he returns to his usual self.

[Rock Monkey]

At the risk of sounding cuck coo, you might want to just sit with Apache and Sterling and explain to her what's happening, that neither has done anything wrong, it's all temporary, in a confident and reassuring tone as the pack leader. I swear they get the emotions we convey.

I agree.

[MotherOfBadgers]

I believe that Apache's sedation leads Sterling to believe that his healthy is far worse than it actually is. I think part of her playing rough with him is her attempt to revive, to rouse him from this sedated state. It's like she is saying "Don't go for the Big Sleep." She is messing with other parts of his body too, she just happened to find a part that responds automatically. So her inclination might not be so carnal as you construe it.

However, I do believe she isn't quite sure what she is. She might think that she is some sort of dog. So, she might regard Apache as some sort of potential mate. I am sure that squirrels know who is male and who is female based on the smell of hormones, given their very sensitive sense of smell.

I am glad to hear that Sterling is feeling somewhat better. Hopefully she will feel a lot better when Apache's crate rest ends and he returns to his usual self.

Yea, he is out cold. But he wasn't getting "red rocket" from her slapping. She was just slapping around a flaccid sack. And she likes to sleep between the thighs of both dogs, and Apache lays on his side a lot anyway, so I doubt it's the first time she's explored it, maybe the first time he didn't instantly get annoyed and get up and walk away though.

I definitely think she thinks she is a dog.

[MotherOfBadgers]

I believe that Apache's sedation leads Sterling to believe that his healthy is far worse than it actually is. I think part of her playing rough with him is her attempt to revive, to rouse him from this sedated state. It's like she is saying "Don't go for the Big Sleep." She is messing with other parts of his body too, she just happened to find a part that responds automatically. So her inclination might not be so carnal as you construe it.

However, I do believe she isn't quite sure what she is. She might think that she is some sort of dog. So, she might regard Apache as some sort of potential mate. I am sure that squirrels know who is male and who is female based on the smell of hormones, given their very sensitive sense of smell.

I am glad to hear that Sterling is feeling somewhat better. Hopefully she will feel a lot better when Apache's crate rest ends and he returns to his usual self.

Also: Apache is the only male in the house. Me, Mash, and Sterling are all female. I do think she probably has the mating urge triggered due to the season, thinks she is a dog, and thinks the only male in the house is a viable candidate. I do not think she actually understands what mating consists of, mechanically. I think she, for now, just sees it as a sort of declaration of possession of her mate. Putting her bedding that smells like her in his cage, chasing dusty away from his cage, sometimes getting a little bitchy with me (swatting at my hands when im going into the crate to medicate him or change his food or especially remove anything she's put in there, my god she gets so upset) all seem like acts of possession to me.

On the other hand... she seems to maybe think she's some sort of human, as she does recognize me as mommy, still makes infantile mommy cries, still tries to suckle from me sometimes...

Yea, I screwed up with this one. She's got some serious mental disorders. But she's so affectionate and loving.

[Rock Monkey]

Yea, I screwed up with this one. She's got some serious mental disorders. But she's so affectionate and loving.

:laugh2

Yeah, I don't think they fully know what they are until they get out into the wild.

[sundoesshine]

Any update on how Sterling is doing?

[MotherOfBadgers]

Any update on how Sterling is doing?

Oh she's great. Spoiled as ever. Perked up plenty as her boyfriend got better. Probably gonna be depressed again though since Apache has surgery on the 30th and is gonna need recovery and separation from Sterling for a while again.

Since I have a wild rescue at the moment and had to make some formula for that one I decided to treat Sterling to a bottle tonight so she was excited about that. She's napping with her boyfriend in his bed right now. I'll be putting her to bed in her cage soonish, before I walk the dogs and go to bed myself.