~8 week old male squirrel lethargic with goopy eyes

[struggleb0x]

Good Day!

We rescued a baby squirrel about 4 weeks ago. We overheard people talking about a baby squirrel running around the apartment complex at night. The following night, on our way back from grocery shopping, he ran up to us on the sidewalk and put his hands in the air like it needed help. It was surreal.

Anyways, he has been very active and playful until a few days ago. He is lethargic and seems to get tired quickly. He appears to nod off or struggle to stay awake. He no longer runs and plays. He is eating, drinking, and peeing/pooping.

I personally think it is the diet. He gets blocks, but we have been giving in to his pickiness and giving him fruits, vegetables, and nuts. I have since been forcing him to eat blocks only, thinking it might be a nutrient deficiency.

Any help or insight is greatly appreciated!

[stepnstone]

Good Day!

We rescued a baby squirrel about 4 weeks ago. We overheard people talking about a baby squirrel running around the apartment complex at night. The following night, on our way back from grocery shopping, he ran up to us on the sidewalk and put his hands in the air like it needed help. It was surreal.

Anyways, he has been very active and playful until a few days ago. He is lethargic and seems to get tired quickly. He appears to nod off or struggle to stay awake. He no longer runs and plays. He is eating, drinking, and peeing/pooping.

I personally think it is the diet. He gets blocks, but we have been giving in to his pickiness and giving him fruits, vegetables, and nuts. I have since been forcing him to eat blocks only, thinking it might be a nutrient deficiency.

Any help or insight is greatly appreciated!

Curious of this babies age, was he ever given any formula?
Can you post a picture so we may assess his condition and likely age.
Diet may very well be a problem considering (suspected) age, feeding
nuts definitely can be an issue with a possibility of causing MBD.
What kind and how many nuts has he been given per day?

[struggleb0x]

Curious of this babies age, was he ever given any formula?
Can you post a picture so we may assess his condition and likely age.
Diet may very well be a problem considering (suspected) age, feeding
nuts definitely can be an issue with a possibility of causing MBD.
What kind and how many nuts has he been given per day?

He is ~8-12 weeks old.

He was on formula for first few weeks then blocks and solid food after that. Nuts have been one of his favorites, so we have since cut them out.

The kids also fed him some acorns (which he loves), but we read they can be bad, so we are sticking to only blocks for the next few days to see what happens.

316673

316674

[Mel1959]

Why don’t you try formula again? Did he refuse to take formula or did you decide it was time to wean him? It’s best to let them dictate when they want to stop drinking formula. It’s filled with all the healthy stuff they need. Sometimes they’ll drink it from a shallow dish when they refuse the syringe.

Have you started the MBD protocol by giving him calcium, like tums or calcium carbonate (with no vitamin D)? He may have the beginnings of MBD, metabolic bone disease, especially if he’s been getting a lot of nuts. If this is the case the block alone is not going to bring him back to good health. He will need calcium given to him on a regular basis for awhile. Here’s the link to MBD Protocol:

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?32122-MBD-Treatment

MBD is painful. He might like a heating pad set on low under where he sleeps. Please be sure he doesn’t have access to chew it.

If left untreated MBD can be fatal.

[struggleb0x]

Why don’t you try formula again? Did he refuse to take formula or did you decide it was time to wean him? It’s best to let them dictate when they want to stop drinking formula. It’s filled with all the healthy stuff they need. Sometimes they’ll drink it from a shallow dish when they refuse the syringe.

Have you started the MBD protocol by giving him calcium, like tums or calcium carbonate (with no vitamin D)? He may have the beginnings of MBD, metabolic bone disease, especially if he’s been getting a lot of nuts. If this is the case the block alone is not going to bring him back to good health. He will need calcium given to him on a regular basis for awhile. Here’s the link to MBD Protocol:

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?32122-MBD-Treatment

MBD is painful. He might like a heating pad set on low under where he sleeps. Please be sure he doesn’t have access to chew it.

If left untreated MBD can be fatal.


He stopped wanting formula, but good idea on the bowl idea. It turns to crap very fast tho. It was time to move on from formula when we did, it was a smooth transition.

MBD was my guess based on research.

He just used to be well, squirrelly and not he struggles to stay attached it seems.

Another symptom that I forgot to mention is his eyes seem to be bulging out of his head? This could just be the awkward growth phase tho.

I appreciate the replies.

[struggleb0x]

Right now, he is on my lap nodding off. He has slept all day, he should not be tired.

He also makes swallowing sounds occasionally. Like he moves his mouth and swallows his spit or something...

[struggleb0x]

Wish they let me edit posts.

Main Symptom list:
-Lethargic
-Labored breathing
-Crusty eyes (minor)
-Little to no activity, seems like anything makes him wore out, he can't jump more than a foot
-every few minutes he swallows his spit or makes a chewing sound
-seems to be breathing from his stomach

I'm so worried about our little guy.

316677

[stepnstone]

Wish they let me edit posts.

Main Symptom list:
-Lethargic
-Labored breathing
-Crusty eyes (minor)
-Little to no activity, seems like anything makes him wore out, he can't jump more than a foot
-every few minutes he swallows his spit or makes a chewing sound
-seems to be breathing from his stomach

I'm so worried about our little guy.




Have you started the MBD protocol by giving him calcium, like tums or calcium carbonate (with no vitamin D)? He may have the beginnings of MBD, metabolic bone disease, especially if he’s been getting a lot of nuts. If this is the case the block alone is not going to bring him back to good health. He will need calcium given to him on a regular basis for awhile. Here’s the link to MBD Protocol:

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?32122-MBD-Treatment

MBD is painful. He might like a heating pad set on low under where he sleeps. Please be sure he doesn’t have access to chew it. If left untreated MBD can be fatal.
He's young, his nutrition has been lacking, nuts rob the body of calcium.
Start the MBD protocol.
If it is mbd you will see results from the protocol pretty soon after.
If it isn't mbd the protocol does not harm them. Start the protocol.

[Mel1959]

As Step said....START THE MBD PROTOCOL! Dissolve some tums in water and give it to him via syringe. If this isn’t MBD the tums/calcium will not hurt him and it might save his life. Follow the protocol information on the link I posted.

[struggleb0x]

He's young, his nutrition has been lacking, nuts rob the body of calcium.
Start the MBD protocol.
If it is mbd you will see results from the protocol pretty soon after.
If it isn't mbd the protocol does not harm them. Start the protocol.


Started it and two doses in and he seems to be getting worse.

I honestly don't think it's calcium. I think he has an infection or ate something bad.

I can't stand to see him like this :(

Edit: fyi, I plan to keep the protocol going for at least a few days.

He breathing is getting heavier too.

[struggleb0x]

He also seems to not be sleeping.

Just staring and breathing heavy.

He did occasionally sleep with his eyes open before.

[struggleb0x]

316678

He seems to rub his nose often and still makes the random chewing sound ever minute or so.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

I have access to antibiotics if needed.

[struggleb0x]

Another potential symptoms is he randomly yawns or stretches his jaw.

[Mel1959]

Have you looked in his mouth at his teeth? What antibiotics do you have and what is the strength? What is the babies weight. It’s necessary for dosing.

How could he have gotten something bad to eat? Was he free roaming out of your sight at any time? What would you suspect it to be if it was something bad that he ate?

Do you hear any congestion or clicking from his lungs when you hold him up to your ear?

[Rock Monkey]

Main Symptom list:
-Lethargic
-Labored breathing
-Crusty eyes (minor)
-Little to no activity, seems like anything makes him wore out, he can't jump more than a foot
-every few minutes he swallows his spit or makes a chewing sound
-seems to be breathing from his stomach



This may be aspiration pneumonia.

Does he drink from a dish or a water bottle? If from a dish the water should not be deeper than 1/8 of an inch and should be changed and rinsed daily. They can aspirate if they drink from a vessel where the water is deep. Their nose can go underwater and they can't breathe properly while drinking.

I would keep him warm, snuggle with him, keep his head above his chest (this helps when there is fluid in the lungs). I wouldn't leave him alone.

If it is aspiration pneumonia, he will need antibiotics as soon as possible.

Let the admins know what antibiotics you have and they can provide dosing if they conclude antibiotics are warranted.

[struggleb0x]

He uses a dish for water, which is half full. He slurps just fine but he does have trouble finding the water level, so the 1/8" makes sense. We will do that going forward.

I have access to a handful of antibiotics and am a biochemist, so I know how to dose him. But if you have known tried and true doses, please let me know. I plan to review some vet journals, so if you have a source for your dosing, please share.

I was going to give him cipro, but let me know if you think there is more preferred antibiotic and I will see if I can get it.



His teeth are fine. There is no clicking or aspiration sounds from lungs. But it is like he keep salivating, so AP was my second suspect after calcium.



I will need to leave him for a few hours to go get the anti-biotics. In one hour I will check this thread for antibiotic recommendations, if I do not see anything, I will take the cipro.


Thanks for feedback everyone!

EDIT: I do have amoxicillin potassium clavulanate 875-125 pills at the house here now. I read amoxicillin is bad. But let me know if it is a bigger risk to wait potentially 3 hours versus giving him amox now.

[Rock Monkey]

He uses a dish for water, which is half full. He slurps just fine but he does have trouble finding the water level, so the 1/8" makes sense. We will do that going forward.

I have access to a handful of antibiotics and am a biochemist, so I know how to dose him. But if you have known tried and true doses, please let me know. I plan to review some vet journals, so if you have a source for your dosing, please share.

I was going to give him cipro, but let me know if you think there is more preferred antibiotic and I will see if I can get it.



His teeth are fine. There is no clicking or aspiration sounds from lungs. But it is like he keep salivating, so AP was my second suspect after calcium.



I will need to leave him for a few hours to go get the anti-biotics. In one hour I will check this thread for antibiotic recommendations, if I do not see anything, I will take the cipro.


Thanks for feedback everyone!

EDIT: I do have amoxicillin potassium clavulanate 875-125 pills at the house here now. I read amoxicillin is bad. But let me know if it is a bigger risk to wait potentially 3 hours versus giving him amox now.

Here is a list from a recent prior post from one of the prescribing admins.

"Baytril (animal)/Cipro (human), Clavamox (animal)/augmentin (human) are drugs that are used frequently for upper respiratory infections."

I would PM Mel1959 directly and can also try any others who are currently online.

They will need the squirrel's weight.

I am not sure that winging it on dosage is a good idea. They have a lot of experience doing this for squirrels.

[struggleb0x]

I am a biochemist so trust when I say I am not estimating anything when it comes to dosing my squirrel.

In fact, I won't even follow what anyone on this forum tells me until I verify it in a published vet journal.

They can give me their calculation formula and I will do my research from there.

[Rock Monkey]

For a healthy squirrel breathing should be a quiet, unremarkable event. That is not what you describe.

Lethargy and lack of appetite is also consistent with AP.

AP kills much more quickly than MBD. So, in my opinion, I would treat for AP.

Then address the diet issues.

[stepnstone]

I have access to a handful of antibiotics and am a biochemist, so I know how to dose him. But if you have known tried and true doses, please let me know. I plan to review some vet journals, so if you have a source for your dosing, please share.


Cipro:
strength: 22.7 mg/ml
dosage:2.5-15 mg/kg

All medications are administered to squirrels by their body weight.
If you need help with breakdown or dosage we need to know the
milligrams of the Cipro and weight of baby.

[Mel1959]

EDIT: I do have amoxicillin potassium clavulanate 875-125 pills at the house here now. I read amoxicillin is bad. But let me know if it is a bigger risk to wait potentially 3 hours versus giving him amox now.

This is Clavamox which is a great drug for AP. Still would need a weight on the squirrel.

[stepnstone]

Clavamox:
Strength: 62.5 mg/ml
Dosage: 20 mg/kg

Again, we can help with breakdown and dosage with a weight on baby

[struggleb0x]

He passed on his way to get antibiotics.

I hope others reading this thread will know it's not ****ing calcium and pneamonia symptoms are suttle. The clicking is actually a sine it's too late.

I could have saved him.

[stepnstone]

He passed on his way to get antibiotics.
I hope others reading this thread will know it's not ****ing calcium and pneamonia symptoms are suttle. The clicking is actually a sine it's too late. I could have saved him.



I personally think it is the diet. He gets blocks, but we have been giving in to his pickiness and giving him fruits, vegetables, and nuts.

Sorry this baby was lost but the attitude is not necessary and unappreciated.
We are rehabilitaters, not Veterinarians!
The "diet" being fed with nuts was wrong to begin with.
We can only go on what we are being told and attempt to help from there.
If you know a better way to try and triage a squirrel blindly that's not in your care, please share it.

[Mel1959]

I am very, very sorry your baby passed.

I just reread your entire post. Yesterday around 6 you listed some symptoms, one being labored breathing. Then today you mentioned he was rubbing his nose. You never said there was any congestion or clicking in his breathing or discharge from his nose. You also never mentioned if he had ever inhaled water from his water dish. I’m not sure how he would have gotten AP if he was not being fed by syringe and didn’t inhale water as he was drinking it, which I have never heard of happening anyway.

You did mention that you suspected he may have ingested something but never explained why you thought that or what it might have been.

We do the best we can here with the information we are provided. AP does not typically occur in an 8 week old that is not being fed formula by syringe. Honestly, at 8 weeks he should have still been on formula for at least 2-4 more weeks IMO.

It is quite possible that there was something genetically wrong. We have seen unexplained deaths in the past, even with experienced rehabbers.

For others that read this post please understand that the clicking from pneumonia is NOT a sign it’s too late. There have been hundreds (thousands) of babies that have been turned around with antibiotics even after they’ve started clicking.

Again, I’m very sorry we couldn’t have helped more and you had to go through this. :sniff

[Rock Monkey]

He passed on his way to get antibiotics.


I am so sorry to hear that you lost him. It is a really crappy feeling. (I know this from personal experience.)

So sorry.