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a_whale
05-04-2020, 08:06 PM
Greetings,

Need some squirrel help/advice for a sick baby.

Background:
I have 5 juvenile red squirrels, recovered from a dumpster during spring cleaning towards the begnning of the coronavirus shutdown here, was unable to get the mother to take them back.

I would estimate only a few days old when I found them, around 8 grams, no sign of ears, umbilicals very visible, eyes smooth.
Now at the end of the 4th week after finding them.

Started on esbilac puppy milk replacer (the goats milk kind, all we could find with the shutdown) for 3 days then fox valley 32/40 arrived. I did NOT see the warning about this until now, but was mixing it 2 parts water to 1 part powder, maybe this helped as I am not sure my problem is fox valley related. Switched to fox valley 20/50 yesterday, have been mixing one part powder to one part water since end middle of 2nd week.

Incisors have come in; audio input (hearing) was enabled on all of them approx 7-8 days ago; Video input (eyes) enabled in the past 3-4 days.

Environment has been regulated between 98-102 degrees with a cooler and warmer spot to allow them to choose.

3 of the squirrels are doing spectactular, past 50 grams, scratching, energetic and wild. 4th is smaller, around 42-44 grams, seems weaker and eats less (with respect to weight) than the rest but is alert and hungry. He was one of the two that seemed to have a hard time the first week.

The last squirrel(wilbur) has been the runt from the beginning, original weight was around 2 grams less than any other sibling and has always tracked around 25% less than the rest of them.

In the past 2 days wilbur has gone from eating his normal 5-7% down to 1-3%, he is lethargic, backs away after little eating; Has diarrhea but not much; Have not observed much urination either though it seems that they pee in the bedding so could be missing that. He does not appear to be bloated; In the past 24hrs I have been giving him 0.2-0.4cc pedialyte each feeding but have not seen an improvement.

His respiration is higher than the others (somewhere between 1.5-2x as fast as the others, varies) but no clicking is heard; However he did appear to have some clicking during the first week which subsided after 2 days without antibiotics.

Right now, his feeding amount has tapered off to less than half of what it was even 24hrs ago and I am very concerned.

Any diagnostic advice? I can't figure out if he is dehydrated, suffering from an issue with the fox valley (I hope not, this little guy must survive), or something else. I am reading as much as I can about this but there is a lot of conflicting information on the internet and I am not sure what steps to take next.

RockyPops
05-04-2020, 09:41 PM
Thanks for helping these babies!

Keep checking here for help. There is a lot of knowledge here.

Read your directions on the fv 20/50. I believe it says 2 parts water to 1 part formula.

Meanwhile, can you post a pic or video of the little guy that's in trouble?

You say about 44 grams?

Also, just in case, be thinking about getting hold of antibiotics and infant motrin.

a_whale
05-04-2020, 11:25 PM
Thanks for helping these babies!

Keep checking here for help. There is a lot of knowledge here.

Read your directions on the fv 20/50. I believe it says 2 parts water to 1 part formula.

Meanwhile, can you post a pic or video of the little guy that's in trouble?

You say about 44 grams?

Also, just in case, be thinking about getting hold of antibiotics and infant motrin.


Thanks for the reply!

I will get a video in the morning, have to tether to my PC and scale it down for transfer because no cell signal out here.

He seems a little better over the past 4 hours, He just consumed 2cc which is close to 5% of his weight (yes he is 44 grams) and seemed a little more active/alert. Will continue checking on him every 2 hours and guage his progress. When I first found them I read about possibility of aspiration pneumonia and got a little bit of liquid clavamox from the vet to have just in case; vet warned to take usage of it very seriously due to possible side effects (though I am not aware of what the side effects could be) and I would need to find out what dosage to use for his current weight if that became necessary. I will keep this thread updated, little Wilbur must survive!

RockyPops
05-04-2020, 11:34 PM
Pulling for Wilbur!!!

Some one on here will see this thread and can dose your meds. They will need meds on hand, strength and babies current weight.

stepnstone
05-05-2020, 12:49 AM
Read your directions on the fv 20/50. I believe it says 2 parts water to 1 part formula.
This is correct, it is always 2 to 1. You need to change your formula to the correct hydration so
it can be digested and processed correctly in their little systems. He likely will eat more once he's
stable.

You can't tell if he's dehydrated, hydrate him. He has diarrhea, it causes dehydration. Hydrate him.
These babies will slow down eating all the way down to refusing to eat at all when not fully hydrated.
Serious dehydration leads to organ failure...
I would recommend to give at least 2 feedings of hydration, then start back with (correctly mixed)
formula and then hydrate as much as he will take in between each formula feeding until he's eating
normal and back to par.

Stop the pedialyte and use the home made re hydration recipe listed below.

Your symptoms of baby and the phantom click is also concerning....
Sometimes some little's have a click after eating coming from their nose or throat, it's not serious.
The click from AP comes from the chest/lung area, it's not always that audible to be detected and
I personally have had some babies with AP that had a shallow click, some very loud, some barely
detectable and even some that were intermediate. With some, their symptoms speak louder.

Try holding baby's chest against your ear and listen to his breathing and see what you can detect.
If he needs the med, we can dose with needing strength of med, milligrams, and weight of baby.

Re-hydration fluid:
1 teaspoon salt
3 Tablespoons sugar
1 quart water.
************
*1/2 measure:
1/2 teaspoon salt
1-1/2 tablespoon sugar (3-teaspoons)
16 oz water (1-pint)
*************
*1/4 measure:
1/4 teaspoon salt
3/4 tablespoon sugar (1-1/2 teaspoons)
8 oz water

a_whale
05-05-2020, 09:31 AM
This is correct, it is always 2 to 1. You need to change your formula to the correct hydration so
it can be digested and processed correctly in their little systems. He likely will eat more once he's
stable.

You can't tell if he's dehydrated, hydrate him. He has diarrhea, it causes dehydration. Hydrate him.
These babies will slow down eating all the way down to refusing to eat at all when not fully hydrated.
Serious dehydration leads to organ failure...
I would recommend to give at least 2 feedings of hydration, then start back with (correctly mixed)
formula and then hydrate as much as he will take in between each formula feeding until he's eating
normal and back to par.

Stop the pediatric and use the home made re hydration recipe listed below.

Your symptoms of baby and the phantom click is also concerning....
Sometimes some little's have a click after eating coming from their nose or throat, it's not serious.
The click from AP comes from the chest/lung area, it's not always that audible to be detected and
I personally have had some babies with AP that had a shallow click, some very loud, some barely
detectable and even some that were intermediate. With some, their symptoms speak louder.

Try holding baby's chest against your ear and listen to his breathing and see what you can detect.
If he needs the med, we can dose with needing strength of med, milligrams, and weight of baby.

Re-hydration fluid:
1 teaspoon salt
3 Tablespoons sugar
1 quart water.
************
*1/2 measure:
1/2 teaspoon salt
1-1/2 tablespoon sugar (3-teaspoons)
16 oz water (1-pint)
*************
*1/4 measure:
1/4 teaspoon salt
3/4 tablespoon sugar (1-1/2 teaspoons)
8 oz water


I made some hydration solution overnight and he is much better this morning!!! I think this has helped tremendously! Thank you so much!!!!

I think he will still need a lot more attention than the other squirrels but I'm going to keep up with it and make sure this little guy gets to climb his first tree along with the others :)

Mel1959
05-05-2020, 09:40 AM
Great news! Did you see the reference for mixing the formula? It should be 1 part powder to 2 parts hot water.

stepnstone
05-05-2020, 11:22 AM
Great news! Did you see the reference for mixing the formula? It should be 1 part powder to 2 parts hot water.
................................................:y eahthat Correcting the formula will also help correct the dehydration.


I made some hydration solution overnight and he is much better this morning!!! I think this has helped tremendously! Thank you so much!!!!
I think he will still need a lot more attention than the other squirrels but I'm going to keep up with it and make sure this little guy gets to climb his first tree along with the others :)

I'm glad your seeing improvement obviously credited to the hydration, keep it up! :great

a_whale
05-05-2020, 02:22 PM
Great news! Did you see the reference for mixing the formula? It should be 1 part powder to 2 parts hot water.

I did! I misspoke before, I have been mixing the fox valley 2 parts water to 1 part powder since the middle of the 1st week. Before that I was mixing it 3 parts water to 1 part powder.

One thing I noticed early on with the 32/40 is that even after mixing, the mix seemed to settle at the bottom and almost solidify, I had to continuously mix it and keep it hot when feeding due to paranoia about the syringe sucking from the bottom of the cup and the babies getting more solids than water, I don't know if this is related to the other things I've read on here about the 32/40 but something was definitely not right. I kept it hot and then let the syrince cool a little before feeding to avoid giving them liquid that was too hot. They seem very happy with the 20/50 and no settling problems with this mix!

I have never raised more than one squirrel at a time and never anywhere near this young, every orphan I've encountered before already had their eyes open and a good amount of fur, it is really interesting to see how these ones interact. If I feed them separately, there is nearly immediate separation anxiety when they finish and realize they are alone, and it's so cute when they sleep in a little pile under their bedding!!!

stepnstone
05-05-2020, 02:31 PM
One thing I noticed early on with the 32/40 is that even after mixing, the mix seemed to settle at the bottom and almost solidify,

This is why it is no longer recommend and exactly what it does in the babies gut also.

Mel1959
05-05-2020, 02:40 PM
It’s interesting that you noticed the mixing inability of FV 32/40. There has been a problem for some time with this formulation of Fox Valley formula. Many rehabbers refused to use it because it was turning to cement in baby squirrels intestines. It resulted in numerous deaths.

This year because of the Esbilac problems last Fall some rehabbers are going back to it for young babies, but they’re not using it by itself. It’s being mixed with another formula called Zoologic and heavy whipping cream, I believe. So far all seems to be going well for these folks and the babies they’re raising.

One of the most notable lessons rehabbers have gained from the formula debacles is that combining formulas seems to hedge the odds in the babies favor that they’ll get the nutrients they need and any formula shortcomings will be minimized. They aren’t relying on one formula to do the job.

RockyPops
05-05-2020, 10:16 PM
Just a quick side note....with the fv 20/50 it helps to mix it ahead of time as directed and let it sit. I try to mix it at night for use the next day. It helps everything dissolve. And then mix well before dispensing.