Which one is the right heavy whipping cream

[insupitilla]

Hi, really new to this and I’ve seen that the recommendation of preparing the formula for the milk with the esbilac and part of heavy whipping cream. Also read that it would support the vitamin D required to absorb the calcium but the issue is that every heavy whipping cream is 0% in calcium and vitamin D. Can you clarify this and also if possible provide brands recommendations. Thank you

[Chirps]

Hi! I'm confused. You mean the nutritional analysis specifically states that there is 0% calcium, or it just isn't listed? Because it does have calcium. But the reason it is added to formula is to boost the fat content because squirrel milk has very high fat content.

Are you using Esbilac? There were problems with it last year and it's not recommended anymore. Check the banner at the top of the page. I think it will direct you to safer alternatives.

[insupitilla]

Hi! I'm confused. You mean the nutritional analysis specifically states that there is 0% calcium, or it just isn't listed? Because it does have calcium. But the reason it is added to formula is to boost the fat content because squirrel milk has very high fat content.

Are you using Esbilac? There were problems with it last year and it's not recommended anymore. Check the banner at the top of the page. I think it will direct you to safer alternatives.



Thank you for the reply, i was thinking on moving my baby to fox valley formula however he is currently on esbilac based on the breeder. How would i transition to fox valley. Also i was reference to this publication at another page. Again im totally new on this my first new baby is arriving tomorrow.

https://www.squirrelsandmore.com/pages/esbilac-by-petag-2019-concerns

Again thank you for your response

[RockyPops]

IMHO you should get the fox valley now and skip the Esbilac due to nutritional problems.

Your getting your first baby tomorrow?

How old is it? How much does it weigh?

What diet is it on now?

[insupitilla]

IMHO you should get the fox valley now and skip the Esbilac due to nutritional problems.

Your getting your first baby tomorrow?

How old is it? How much does it weigh?

What diet is it on now?

He is 6 weeks and he is on esbilac i would say, im excited to receive him. Also wanted to be prepared:)

[HRT4SQRLS]

Thank you for the reply, i was thinking on moving my baby to fox valley formula however he is currently on esbilac based on the breeder. How would i transition to fox valley. Also i was reference to this publication at another page. Again im totally new on this my first new baby is arriving tomorrow.

https://www.squirrelsandmore.com/pages/esbilac-by-petag-2019-concerns

Again thank you for your response

Hi insupitilla,
Welcome to TheSquirrelBoard

Let me just say that most on this board categorically reject the statement issued by Chris Clark at Chris’s Squirrels and More regarding the Esbilac disaster. Most, including myself were very angry about the statement. Basically what she was saying was that the rehabbers were at fault for the problem. Somehow they forgot how to mix formula after using it successfully for years. Seriously, that is nonsense. They were not newbie rehabbers. They were very experienced rehabbers. The product was clearly defective so her defending the product is frankly, indefensible. PetAg has supposedly corrected the problems. I don’t know if that’s true and I don’t care if it’s true because I will never use it or recommend it. There is still defective product on the shelves because they didn’t recall it. I have personally helped 2 people this week with babies that were not growing on Esbilac. With the first group the poster couldn’t understand why they were so small. She had them 2 weeks and they had not gained a single gram. That is a problem. When she switched formula, they immediately started gaining. The second poster has a singleton on Esbilac for 3 weeks, the baby is now 5-6 weeks old and weighs 52g. The FoxValley 20:50 will arrive today and I hope she can save the baby but the photos show a small, frail malnourished baby.

I’m sorry but I am very opinionated on this subject. I saw the X-rays of the broken bones and the frail babies. Please don’t take a chance that you will get a can of ‘good’ Esbilac. They will never convince me that they are anything other than a irresponsible, cheap company that cares more about their profits than the lives of animals.

How old is your baby? Order FoxValley 20:50.
I see you are in FL. Publix has heavy whipping cream. All cream has calcium. It might not be on the label but it has calcium. All dairy products have calcium. Make sure you don’t get some weird, non-dairy product.

Last year was a nightmare and we continue to see the fallout from the defective product. I’m going to get a link for you of the baby that we HOPE we can save. When you read it, you will understand.
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?64368-Squirrel-baby-formula-and-MBD-question!-!

[HRT4SQRLS]

One thing you said just caught my eye. You said breeder. Is this a flyer or a grey squirrel? As far as I know, only flyers come from breeders.

[CritterMom]

Also, you are looking for the cream IN A CARTON - it will be in the refrigerator case with the half and half. It is what is used to make whipped cream from scratch, not a pre-made whipped topping. You can't shoot a mouthful of this from a can when nobody is looking, in other words! It may be called "heavy cream" or "heavy whipping cream." If you have a choice, buy the one that has the highest milkfat.

[insupitilla]

Hi insupitilla,
Welcome to TheSquirrelBoard

Let me just say that most on this board categorically reject the statement issued by Chris Clark at Chris’s Squirrels and More regarding the Esbilac disaster. Most, including myself were very angry about the statement. Basically what she was saying was that the rehabbers were at fault for the problem. Somehow they forgot how to mix formula after using it successfully for years. Seriously, that is nonsense. They were not newbie rehabbers. They were very experienced rehabbers. The product was clearly defective so her defending the product is frankly, indefensible. PetAg has supposedly corrected the problems. I don’t know if that’s true and I don’t care if it’s true because I will never use it or recommend it. There is still defective product on the shelves because they didn’t recall it. I have personally helped 2 people this week with babies that were not growing on Esbilac. With the first group the poster couldn’t understand why they were so small. She had them 2 weeks and they had not gained a single gram. That is a problem. When she switched formula, they immediately started gaining. The second poster has a singleton on Esbilac for 3 weeks, the baby is now 5-6 weeks old and weighs 52g. The FoxValley 20:50 will arrive today and I hope she can save the baby but the photos show a small, frail malnourished baby.

I’m sorry but I am very opinionated on this subject. I saw the X-rays of the broken bones and the frail babies. Please don’t take a chance that you will get a can of ‘good’ Esbilac. They will never convince me that they are anything other than a irresponsible, cheap company that cares more about their profits than the lives of animals.

How old is your baby? Order FoxValley 20:50.
I see you are in FL. Publix has heavy whipping cream. All cream has calcium. It might not be on the label but it has calcium. All dairy products have calcium. Make sure you don’t get some weird, non-dairy product.

Last year was a nightmare and we continue to see the fallout from the defective product. I’m going to get a link for you of the baby that we HOPE we can save. When you read it, you will understand.
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?64368-Squirrel-baby-formula-and-MBD-question!-!


Thanks a lot for the hones and quick reply, the bad thing is that i only have esbilac for tomorrow when he arrives and i ordered the fox valley but it arrives on Saturday, also im unsure how to safety transition from one to the other one. Please advice. Thank you ☺️

[HRT4SQRLS]

Thanks a lot for the hones and quick reply, the bad thing is that i only have esbilac for tomorrow when he arrives and i ordered the fox valley but it arrives on Saturday, also im unsure how to safety transition from one to the other one. Please advice. Thank you ☺️


I’m sure he is already on the Esbilac so go ahead and use it until you receive the Fox Valley. I hope you ordered the Fox Valley 20:50.

When it arrives mix a batch of both formulas. THEN, you will transition by incrementally reducing the Esbilac.

75% Esbilac..... with 25% Fox Valley ( 2 feedings )
50% Esbilac..... with 50% Fox Valley ( 2 feedings )
25% Esbilac..... with 75% Fox Valley ( 2 feedings )
100% Fox Valley

When the baby arrives, can you post a pic so we can assess the condition? I hope to see a fat, healthy baby but if not I would transition faster. Is this a flyer or grey?

[insupitilla]

I’m sure he is already on the Esbilac so go ahead and use it until you receive the Fox Valley. I hope you ordered the Fox Valley 20:50.

When it arrives mix a batch of both formulas. THEN, you will transition by incrementally reducing the Esbilac.

75% Esbilac..... with 25% Fox Valley ( 2 feedings )
50% Esbilac..... with 50% Fox Valley ( 2 feedings )
25% Esbilac..... with 75% Fox Valley ( 2 feedings )
100% Fox Valley

When the baby arrives, can you post a pic so we can assess the condition? I hope to see a fat, healthy baby but if not I would transition faster. Is this a flyer or grey?


It’s a flyer and I think he is healthy 😊 should i use 20:50 or 32:40 since he is 6 weeks?

[CritterMom]

20/50.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Awww.... a flyer. :dance:dance:grin2

When you said breeder, my mind went straight to flyer. It’s illegal to breed grey squirrels as far as I know.

Actually, for a flyer you can use either FoxValley. The FoxValley 32:40 is the preferred formula for flyers because it has more protein and flyers need more protein. There was a hysteria years ago because the FV 32:40 was causing ‘cement gut’ in babies and not being digested. Through all of this, my boys never had a problem with it. I have 2 flyers. One of my boys will be 10 in September. The other is 7. They will take either one.
Some adult flyers will still take formula and if your guy is one that will, it’s good to continue it even as an adult.

He looks perfectly healthy but because of inconsistency with PetAg products I wouldn’t leave him on it.

Edit.. I saw C M post. Either is fine but to err on the side of caution the 20:50 will work.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Discovering that you were referring to a flyer, that changes things a bit. The heavy cream added to the FV will be fine while he is still a baby but I definitely would not give heavy cream fortified formula to an adult. They mature faster than grey squirrels and would be considered independent at 8 weeks if I remember correctly. Let me check that. One of my flyers is rollie pollie obese. Obese isn’t healthy for flyers either. After a few weeks I would drop the cream.

Edit... it is 84 days that they are capable of living independently. That is 12 weeks.

Here is a presentation by one of our members that you might find helpful. Anne is a flyer expert.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4fU88wUkyk1aVg0eGVDWHFRU2VSOHU2Mm9LVTd6QQ/view

[insupitilla]

Thank you for the response, I cancelled the fv 32:40 that i ordered but was to late lol and ordered the 20:50 instead still arrive the same day through. I will send more pictures when the little boy arrives :Welcome

[insupitilla]

I have a question i just realized that everything i read is using powder esbilac but i have liquid one !!!! And no even the ingredients are the same im so confused right now, im going tomorrow to the store to get the powder one but would only be for few days because i will be transitioning to fv. I shouldn’t be using the liquid one right. I just wanted to prepared from today for it to mix and be ready for him tomorrow.

[insupitilla]

Received the little baby today the hand feeding process was horrendous he got milk all over and under his mouth i had to dampened him and I felt super bad

[insupitilla]

Besides i got a boy that is 5 weeks so how much milk should i give him any advice?

[Spanky]

Besides i got a boy that is 5 weeks so how much milk should i give him any advice?

By "milk" you mean the Fox Valley formula?

The absolute best way to feed baby squirrels (flyers or greys) is by weight. They will get 5% - 7% of their body weight per feeding... so a 50gram flyer would get 2.5ml - 3.5ml. I will include a cheat sheet.

For a flyer, I would recommend using only a 1ml syringe and nothing larger. The danger is aspiration of the formula: they inhale it into their lungs, often with formula coming out of their noses. The fluid in their lungs can result in Aspiration Pneumonia (AP) which is the #1 killer of baby squirrels in human care. Sooo.. best to have proper antibiotics on hand just in case.. cipro (or baytril) or Augmentin (or clavamox).

PS Please don't buy any more babies from breeders. :boohoo

[insupitilla]

Omg thank you so much for the tips and im really concern that today the hand feeding process may have not been proper. What signs would i have to look in case I suspect aspiration may had happened. Please help I don’t want nothing to happen to him.




By "milk" you mean the Fox Valley formula?

The absolute best way to feed baby squirrels (flyers or greys) is by weight. They will get 5% - 7% of their body weight per feeding... so a 50gram flyer would get 2.5ml - 3.5ml. I will include a cheat sheet.

For a flyer, I would recommend using only a 1ml syringe and nothing larger. The danger is aspiration of the formula: they inhale it into their lungs, often with formula coming out of their noses. The fluid in their lungs can result in Aspiration Pneumonia (AP) which is the #1 killer of baby squirrels in human care. Sooo.. best to have proper antibiotics on hand just in case.. cipro (or baytril) or Augmentin (or clavamox).

PS Please don't buy any more babies from breeders. :boohoo

[Spanky]

By "milk" you mean the Fox Valley formula?

???


Omg thank you so much for the tips and im really concern that today the hand feeding process may have not been proper. What signs would i have to look in case I suspect aspiration may had happened.

With AP they usually have a persistent "click" with each breath. Hold them to your ear like a phone and listen very carefully... flyers are harder to detect the click as they are so small.

They will also become very lethargic and lose their appetite with AP.

Having antibiotics on hand is a very good idea.

[HRT4SQRLS]

You say it’s a 5 week old boy. Could you post a pic to evaluate the age? I read back and you were getting a 6 week old and that was 11 days ago so that one would now be approaching 8 weeks. The reason for my curiosity is that an 8 week old flyer would probably be weaning or at least trying to wean. By the way, baby flyers have a greasy look to their fur. When they get older the greasy look disappears and they have silky soft, smooth fur.

If this one is 5 weeks old and hand raised I’m surprised that he is resistant to the formula. He should be anxious to take it.

You asked a question a while back that was never answered about Esbilac. Of course, NOW we don’t recommend any Esbilac but the liquid Esbilac has always been problematic so we never recommended it. It is not the same as the powder and always caused diarrhea.

[insupitilla]

In case he develops it what is the time window for it to happen?

Thank you


???



With AP they usually have a persistent "click" with each breath. Hold them to your ear like a phone and listen very carefully... flyers are harder to detect the click as they are so small.

They will also become very lethargic and lose their appetite with AP.

Having antibiotics on hand is a very good idea.

[insupitilla]

Im typing from my phone and its a lo g story to type lol will get back to you as soon as i get to a pc

Thank you for the guidance



You say it’s a 5 week old boy. Could you post a pic to evaluate the age? I read back and you were getting a 6 week old and that was 11 days ago so that one would now be approaching 8 weeks. The reason for my curiosity is that an 8 week old flyer would probably be weaning or at least trying to wean. By the way, baby flyers have a greasy look to their fur. When they get older the greasy look disappears and they have silky soft, smooth fur.

If this one is 5 weeks old and hand raised I’m surprised that he is resistant to the formula. He should be anxious to take it.

You asked a question a while back that was never answered about Esbilac. Of course, NOW we don’t recommend any Esbilac but the liquid Esbilac has always been problematic so we never recommended it. It is not the same as the powder and always caused diarrhea.

[insupitilla]

314382314383314384
You say it’s a 5 week old boy. Could you post a pic to evaluate the age? I read back and you were getting a 6 week old and that was 11 days ago so that one would now be approaching 8 weeks. The reason for my curiosity is that an 8 week old flyer would probably be weaning or at least trying to wean. By the way, baby flyers have a greasy look to their fur. When they get older the greasy look disappears and they have silky soft, smooth fur.

If this one is 5 weeks old and hand raised I’m surprised that he is resistant to the formula. He should be anxious to take it.

You asked a question a while back that was never answered about Esbilac. Of course, NOW we don’t recommend any Esbilac but the liquid Esbilac has always been problematic so we never recommended it. It is not the same as the powder and always caused diarrhea.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Oh yes, he is a young one. I see the greasy fur look. :thumbsup

[insupitilla]

Im really worry about today first hand feeding and the slightly possibility that it went wrong. Any idea when should i be on the clear related to this incident. He did not have liquid through his nose though. 😞
Does he look healthy for 5 weeks or little skinny?


Oh yes, he is a young one. I see the greasy fur look. :thumbsup

[HRT4SQRLS]

Liquid in the nose isn’t really an issue. The issue is when formula gets into the lungs. If he is going to get sick, you will know soon. I’m sure he is probably fine. Do you know if he was hand raised? I’m thinking, no. He should have taken it willingly.

Based on the pic he looks fine. It’s hard to tell from a pic but they are pretty small and lean at that age.

[insupitilla]

Yesterday’s night the feeding went way better he does get super fast to the syringe and I always make sure i go slow enough that he can lick the syringe no even sucking it. But even when going that slow he gets this little/medium amount of milk(i still giving him esbilac because im transitioning with the instructions provided here) under his mouth/chest. I attempt to clean it with a warm Humid paper and then try to dry Out that humidity with a towel. Any other way I should do this? Is this milk accumulation normal? Let me know please

[HRT4SQRLS]

Yes, it’s normal. Some are messier than others. I guess it’s like kids. Some are tidy and others are slobs. :grin2
Just make sure you get the formula off of the face and neck. If left, it will cause hair loss.

[insupitilla]

Also I brought him to my playground area today and when exploring he started doing like a little whistle here and there along with the respiration but not always and then stopped doing it and since we are worried about the aspiration im super scare plus I’ve already heard him like the normal crying noise and this one wasn’t the crying one. Anyone knows about this. Thank you so much for the guidance guys.

Ps after exploring the area the weird noise was over. And he is being really active at all times and is eating his orange super good.

[HRT4SQRLS]

What kind of playground?

When they are babies, they aren’t fully nocturnal. When they get older they are totally nocturnal.
They don’t mind you waking them up during the day to play but for the most part, they sleep all day.

Was the sound a chirping sound?

[insupitilla]

More like a diminutive squeaking sound like im bothering him but is just had done it once or twice.



What kind of playground?

When they are babies, they aren’t fully nocturnal. When they get older they are totally nocturnal.
They don’t mind you waking them up during the day to play but for the most part, they sleep all day.

Was the sound a chirping sound?

[insupitilla]

I saw him during early evening going through his entire body and doing like a little bites or self cleaning is that normal daily? Him doing that to himself?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Yes they do groom themselves but you should watch that closely. Flyers are also known to ‘barber’ which is an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder type issue where they overgrow and pull out their hair. Some will groom to the point of baldness of any spot they can reach.

[insupitilla]

Question lol attempting ro prepare the transition formula and my question is can i premix the percentages of formulas for the two feedings before hand or it should be mix (when both are already prepare hours before to the liquid state) at the moment of the feeding. Sorry to be asking too many questions. ��

Also you recommended FV 20/50 based on the issues with the 32/40 but also for the then baby to be age’s. The baby i got is 5 weeks and my secong question would be if it would be safe to use the same FV 20/50. Thanks a lot
I’m sure he is already on the Esbilac so go ahead and use it until you receive the Fox Valley. I hope you ordered the Fox Valley 20:50.

When it arrives mix a batch of both formulas. THEN, you will transition by incrementally reducing the Esbilac.

75% Esbilac..... with 25% Fox Valley ( 2 feedings )
50% Esbilac..... with 50% Fox Valley ( 2 feedings )
25% Esbilac..... with 75% Fox Valley ( 2 feedings )
100% Fox Valley

When the baby arrives, can you post a pic so we can assess the condition? I hope to see a fat, healthy baby but if not I would transition faster. Is this a flyer or grey?

[insupitilla]

314403I've seen him lately scratching his face area very often. Any possible reason?


I’ve bought nesting cotton would it be ok to use for her little box for now?

I also have an ant problem so I cannot leave the orange there or idk what to do in this case. Today I found the orange slice inside the box full of ants and i even checked him to see if he had have any on him.

[insupitilla]

6th question 😅🤓

Im using a blender because even with warm water the esbilac is having mist. Is that ok

[Mel1959]

314403I've seen him lately scratching his face area very often. Any possible reason?


I’ve bought nesting cotton would it be ok to use for her little box for now?

I also have an ant problem so I cannot leave the orange there or idk what to do in this case. Today I found the orange slice inside the box full of ants and i even checked him to see if he had have any on him.

Most of us don’t use nesting cotton like that just fleece or blankets. You might try removing it and putting the baby in a blanket and see if the itching stops. I’m not sure what type of ants you have but I’d be cautious about them with your baby if they’re the biting kind.

Terro makes a great ant bait product that is relatively harmless and does a good job of killing the whole colony. You just place the bait traps where you see ants and they eat the liquid Borax bait and take it back to the colony. As long as you don’t disturb the ants as they’re swarming and attracted to the bait they will eat enough to kill the queen and the whole colony.

[insupitilla]

Thank you so much for the answer about pre mixing the two formulas esbylac and fv before the hand feeding sessions, in my case i was instructed two hand feedings per percentage change, could i just premix the percentages for the entire same percentage session or each mix should happen right before the feeding?
Also for a 5 weeks old im using fv 20/50 ?


Thank you




Most of us don’t use nesting cotton like that just fleece or blankets. You might try removing it and putting the baby in a blanket and see if the itching stops. I’m not sure what type of ants you have but I’d be cautious about them with your baby if they’re the biting kind.

Terro makes a great ant bait product that is relatively harmless and does a good job of killing the whole colony. You just place the bait traps where you see ants and they eat the liquid Borax bait and take it back to the colony. As long as you don’t disturb the ants as they’re swarming and attracted to the bait they will eat enough to kill the queen and the whole colony.

[Mel1959]

Yes, Fox Valley 20/50. I don’t know why you couldn’t premix the formulas but what some people do is pull up 25% of the syringe with one formula and then 75% of the syringe with the other formula and so on and so forth with the other percentages for the transition.

[insupitilla]

I hope he goes up in weight with the FV because he is 39 days and is weighing 26 grams

[Mel1959]

Fox Valley makes a product called Ultraboost that can be substituted for 25-50% of his powdered formula. It provides additional calories, as well as nutrients to help with weight gain. I use it all the time with great results.

[HRT4SQRLS]

6th question ����

Im using a blender because even with warm water the esbilac is having mist. Is that ok

I don’t use a blender. You’re only mixing a tiny amount. When I first make formula, I do use a blender ball and shaker. It has to be pre-made and sit. Don’t feed it with bubbles and foam.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I hope he goes up in weight with the FV because he is 39 days and is weighing 26 grams



https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?42825-Baby-Flyer-weights-and-age/page3

Weight vs Age for flyers

A new born Flyer weighs 3 grams
4 days ---- 5g
7 days ---- 7g
9 days ---- 7-8g
12 days -- 10-11g
14 days -- 11-13g
17 days -- 12-13g
19 days -- 15-16g
21 days -- 16-19g
28 days -- eyes open
30 days -- 25-26g
31 days -- 27-28g
35 days -- 30-31g
38 days -- 32-34g
41 days -- 34-37g
50 days -- 41-52g (note the large variation now)
52 days -- 43-53g
If I could find all the past records, other days could be added.
At least this will give HOF's an idea.

[insupitilla]

I was giving him his late night milk with the 75 esbilac 25 fv and he even when aggressively to the nipple but i gave it to him to the same speed and super slow like always. After that he as always got frozen and poop and pee but before moving like normal he threw up this amount of milk and i can see little threads of mango he was eating earlier. Is that something I should be really worry about it. Did i do something wrong? Is that normal sometimes? Could had him aspired formula even if i took like 2 minutes for 2 ml. Sorry im asking to many question but right now im scared. ��
Ps the wet napkin is urine not part of the milk he threw up



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