Clavamox mixed with treat ? [Archive]

olorin19

01-10-2020, 10:28 AM

My boy Mookie is now 28 months, and has been living outside since he was released 19 months ago. (He was overwintered, as he was born in September.)

He has an infected foot, most likely from a bite injury. We first noticed that he was favoring the foot last week, but it has taken awhile to corral him.

I am planning on starting him on clavamox today.

When he was first released in May 2018, he got in a fight within a few minutes, so I had to bring him back in for clavamox then. He was not an easy one to dose with a syringe, and bit me (not badly) for the only time ever.

I remember reading a post a few months back where someone suggested mixing clavamox with some sort of nut butter concocted treat.

Does anyone have a recipe and/or any other instructions?

Many thanks!

Here is Mookie last summer. He is quite good at getting our attention no matter where we are in the house. He will search window to window until he finds us.

The second photo is Arya and Iggy, now about 5 1/2 months old and being overwintered.

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TubeDriver

01-10-2020, 10:44 AM

Clavamox is one of the very meds that actually tastes decent. It has a vanilla like taste, not great but not nasty like Cipro.

I have made up little peanut butter balls and mixed in finely ground almonds to make it a little less sticky. Mash in the clavamox and he will probably eat it.

Mookie is lucky to have human guardian angle like yourself to watch over him!:thumbsup

olorin19

01-10-2020, 11:20 AM

Thanks TD!

Good to know that clavamox is a good taste.

The two singletons I've overwintered (Mookie and before him Dustin) both remained in and around my yard and happily perched on me, ate from my hands, etc.

Their trust, as you know, is what makes it possible to help then when they need it. When they are injured, they are a bit more skittish, but fortunately the trust is still there.

I have a spare nest box mounted on a post right outside my back door. Mookie does not tend to enter it, but he perches on it to eat or wait for me. When he came by this morning, once he jumped on my shoulder all I had to do was walk into the house then take him to my enclosed front porch.

I have a release cage permanently in my back yard with a nest boox inside. Mookie slept there his first winter outside, and still sleeps there a fair bit during what is now his second winter outside. Once he is off the clavamox, I'll get him back in the release cage for a bit so he can get reacquainted with the local squirrels and so I can make sure he is better. If he eats the nut balls with the clavamox readily enough, I amy evern take him out there sooner, but for now my plan is to keep him on my (unheated) front perch at least until we get the hang of treats with clavamox.

CritterMom

01-10-2020, 11:22 AM

If he is a gourmet - my guys don't like peanut butter - use nutella in place of it. He will make it go away almost as fast as I would!

olorin19

01-11-2020, 10:39 AM

If he is a gourmet - my guys don't like peanut butter - use nutella in place of it. He will make it go away almost as fast as I would!

No luck getting Mookie to eat treats, whether peanut butter or nutella, even without clavamox.

I will keep trying, but until then I will continue using the syringe.

On the plus side, handling him allowed me to finally see and palpate the abscess. It is up above the ankle on the inside of his right rear leg. It feels a bit dry and crusty.

I will be borrowing a larger cage today, as I expect Mookie to be on the porch throughout the clavamox. He is content to hunker down in the small cage and recuperate much of the time. I have had him out twice this morning, and both times he went back into the cage on his own after 15-20 minutes.

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HRT4SQRLS

01-11-2020, 12:36 PM

You could try making the Clavomox suspension more concentrated so that the volume is low.
If the calculated dose is 0.10 ml or less you could put it in the ridges of a pecan.

I also used avocado to treat a release. Bore out a hole and add the antibiotic and reseal with the avocado paste.

olorin19

01-13-2020, 05:50 PM

Just an update:

Short version - Mookie is making good progress

Longer version -

When I first brought him inside, he was moving around on only three legs. He held his back right foot out to the side so that it never came close to the ground. I watched him try and eat a hazelnut while perched on top of his nest box, and when he tried to use both front paws to eat, he basically fell over, as he was not putting any weight on the right foot.

By the next day after starting on the clavamox, he was putting weight on that foot when at rest, but still not at all while in motion.

By the next day, he was able to sit there eating a hazelnut with all his weight on his two back feet. He had more weight on the left, and it was really only the right heel making contact, with the toes raised up slightly.

By the next day (today), he is definitely using all four feet when moving around on the ground, and using both back feet to push off and to land.

A few days ago, he would go through the motions of using his right rear leg to scratch behind his ear, but the foot would not even come close to making contact. Now, he is starting to actually contact the side of his head when he scratches.

I have yet to see him use the right rear foot to cling or hang.

What I feel when palpating the injured area does not seem like it has fluid. It is more like the consistency of a scab but under the skin rather than on top. It is getting smaller. And I do not believe it is all that painful to him. After I give him his clavamox, I palpate the area then gently rub the leg. This actually seems to relax him a bit.

Mel1959

01-13-2020, 07:28 PM

RockyPops

01-13-2020, 08:07 PM

Thank you for helping and loving Mookie!

olorin19

01-14-2020, 08:12 AM

It sounds like he is on the mend. I had a released squirrel that injured her front paw/arm/shoulder and it took several weeks for her to use it properly, so it sounds like Mookie is making a quick recovery.

I love the name, by the way! :Love_Icon Mookie :Love_Icon

I'm from Boston originally, so many of my squirrels are named after Boston athletes -

Dustin is from Dustin Pedroia, and Mookie is from Mookie Betts

Not all though -
Arya is Arya Stark from Game of Thrones, Iggy is Iggy Pop, and Ziggy was Ziggy Stardust

RockyPops

01-14-2020, 08:18 AM

Maybe a Major Tom in your future. :grin3

olorin19

01-14-2020, 05:24 PM

Maybe a Major Tom in your future. :grin3

Could be - Ziggy as also known as "The Squirrel Who Fell To Earth"

We had an Amy named after the main character in Justin Cronin's trilogy, i.e. "The Squirrel From Nowhere"

olorin19

01-14-2020, 05:35 PM

Update and question:

Okay, so I was right that it felt like a scab but wrong that it was under the skin. The scab was just completely under the fur, and so felt under the skin.

Anyways, the scab came off this morning. I detached it gently from the fur, but it was no longer attached to the skin.

I figure a scab this size on Mookie's leg would be like one the size of a frisbee on my leg!

His mobility keeps improving, better tonight than this morning. He is now able to use the right rear leg to scratch on the back of his head between his ears. Still not using that paw to hang, as far as I can tell.

So my question: The scab came off after 3.5 days on clavamox. As of tonight, he is now at 4.5 days on clavamox. No scabs there now, and I will start using dermagel tomorrow. I have been told previously that 7 days is the minimum on clavamox. Is that sufficient, or should I go a few days longer?

Either way, I will keep him inside 2-3 days after clavamox, both to monitor and give him probiotics. Then he is out to his release cage for a bit.

Any suggestions/advice welcome as always~

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TubeDriver

01-14-2020, 05:45 PM

I would go for a minimum of 7 days with the clavamox. I would want to see clean, pink, healthy skin with absolutely no pus or discharge. Ideally, if you can keep him a bit longer, you could wait till you see new hair starting to grow in. But at the very least, 7 full days of clavamox. You could easily extend that out to 10 days. You really want to see 3-4 days with absolutely no sign of infection at a minimum.

olorin19

01-20-2020, 06:09 PM

An update:

So, the scab pictured earlier in this thread was detached after 3.5 days on clavamox. A much smaller scab detached at 4.5 days clavamox, and nothing since then - no scabs on leg, no discharge, skin feels fine, etc.

Mookie's mobility has steadily improved, and all seems great.

We completed 10 days clavamox this morning. My plan is to keep him on my sun porch four more days on probiotics twice daily before bringing him to the release cage. My sun porch is not heated, but definitely does not get as cold as outside, so I am also waiting past a few colder days and night coming up this week. The release cage has his original nest box, stuffed fool of fresh fleece very fall. He slept there most nights his first winter outdoors, and quite often this winter as well.

Some really touching moments this week with Mookie.

Mookie is about 28 months old, released after overwintering at about 9 months. With my releases, I let them dictate how much physical contact works for them. I do not try to pet them or handle them, but am fine if they want to climb, perch, etc. Mookie has been an almost daily presence in my yard during the 19 months since his release, and has zero fear of me. He runs over to see me, climbs on me, perches on my shoulder, arm, or hand, hides nuts inside my hoodie, etc. But again, I have not once tried to pet him during all that time.

So now, Mookie has been on my porch running free. Since he is is not a chewer, his cage full of bedding is open from early morning until he goes to bed a bit after sunset.

Since I have been holding him against my belly twice daily to give him his clavamox, I spend a minute or two afterwards giving him a massage while I also check his leg. This helps him relax and he seemed to be enjoying it.

After he had been on the porch about a week, as it got towards dark, he started to crawl into the front pouch of my hoodie and curling up rather than going into his cage. I started massaging him through the fabric, and after a minute he stuck his head out so I could rub his neck, top of his head, etc. He will lie there like that relaxing for maybe five minutes before curling up in my hoodie's pouch and falling asleep. I have tried the past three nights to get him out of the pouch and back into his cage to sleep, and in the end I have had to take the hoodie off and put him into the cage still in the hoodie.

It is like he is 3-4 months old again, he is so cuddly.

RockyPops

01-20-2020, 06:43 PM

How lucky for you....and Mookie

Nancy in New York

01-20-2020, 06:44 PM

.

After he had been on the porch about a week, as it got towards dark, he started to crawl into the front pouch of my hoodie and curling up rather than going into his cage. I started massaging him through the fabric, and after a minute he stuck his head out so I could rub his neck, top of his head, etc. He will lie there like that relaxing for maybe five minutes before curling up in my hoodie's pouch and falling asleep. I have tried the past three nights to get him out of the pouch and back into his cage to sleep, and in the end I have had to take the hoodie off and put him into the cage still in the hoodie.

It is like he is 3-4 months old again, he is so cuddly.

Awe this just took my heart! :Love_Icon
Mookie is SO lucky to have you in his life.

TubeDriver

01-20-2020, 07:38 PM

Mel1959

01-21-2020, 08:16 AM

Your bond with Mookie is special. :Love_Icon Sometimes these little fuzzers are more “domesticated” wilds than we think and seek out human companionship. I love that about them. :Love_Icon

olorin19

01-21-2020, 08:22 AM

Great update! Since Mookie is doing so well inside with you, I think the plan of keeping him for another 4 days and than repeating the soft release is good. That extra time will allow you make sure the infection is completely gone and he is all healed. :great:clap

I may even wait a couple more days before the soft release. I am already hanging out on my sun porch twice a day with my overwintering six month olds Arya and Iggy, so keeping Ziggy there a bit longer is easy enough. I am giving him oral probiotics 2x daily and checking the leg. All seems fine.

Unlike Mookie, Iggy and especially Arya are chewers, so I have to be on the porch with them. It has been great fun watching them interact with Mookie. They know each other, as Mookie has been coming to the back door by their cage or to the sun porch when they are out there all their lives. Plus, they smell each other on my hoodie and sweatpants. But this is the first time they have not been separated by a cage or glass. They are fascinated but respectful of Mookie. Even when he was on three legs, they got out of his way quick enough. The porch is about 10' x 12' with a futon couch plus various things I've rigged up for them to climb, jump, dig, etc. Mostly, they keep out of Mookie's way, although they are quite curious. when he goes into his nest cage, they often try to sneek a look inside, and if they go a bit too far, he makes aggravated squirrel noises and they back right off. Iggy sometimes sees how close Mookie will let him get before chasing him off. A couple times, Mookie and Iggy have touched noses.

I figure this is good practice for Arya and Iggy interacting with other squirrels. Plus, when they are released next spring, they will be going into Mookie's kingdom, so they might as well know the king. Of course, since they come from a tree in my neighbor's yard, it is possible they may be Mookie's kids or perhaps even grandkids.

olorin19

01-25-2020, 08:32 AM

Update -

Mookie has now been inside 15 days. He was on clavamox for 10 days, with the large scab coming off at 3.5 days. A smaller scab came off at 4.5 days, nothing since.

I have seen no sign of discharge, swelling, etc., and he has now been off the clavamox for 5 days. The picture below was just taken this morning.

Is there any reason he needs to be on the porch longer? Also, his poops seem back to normal. I gave him probiotics during the clavamox usually 1x day but have done it 2x day since then.

Since today is pouring rain, my plan is to move him into the release cage tomorrow morning for a week. While my sun porch is unheated, it has never been any lower than 40 there, so this week is also nice as the days will be in the 40s and nights from low 30s to high 20s. There is a nest box stuffed full of fleece in the release cage, so he will be warm and snug.

The release cage has been in the same spot since last used when Mookie was released in May/June 2018. He moved back into the nest box (still inside the release cage) that fall and pretty much slept there every night from October to April before returning to the trees for warmer weather. This winter, he generally slept in the nest box when it was cold, rainy, or snowy, but not every night like his first winter outside. When it was really cold, he often had another squirrel with him as well.

Does this seem like a good plan? Comments welcome, thanks!

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RockyPops

01-25-2020, 08:46 AM

I'm not really that experienced but it sounds to me like you have a great plan for Mookie.

I'm so glad he's hung around so long and still trusts you.

Thanks for keeping us posted on his progress!

TubeDriver

01-25-2020, 09:26 AM

olorin19

01-25-2020, 10:53 AM

I'm not really that experienced but it sounds to me like you have a great plan for Mookie.

I'm so glad he's hung around so long and still trusts you.

Thanks for keeping us posted on his progress!

Thanks RP

I doubt any of the details being shared are at all surprising to the experts at TSB, However, I figure that either now or later (via the archive) perhaps some of these details might help somebody else help their own squirrel.

The interesting thing I've noted both with Mookie and with Dustin (back inside twice 2016-2017 for antibiotics due to abscessed wounds from fights) is that while they by no means enjoy me holding them and giving them oral antibiotics or oral probiotics, it seems that this trauma has not decreased their trust in me. If anything, it seems to have increased it.

I talk to my squirrels quite a bit - telling them what i am going to be doing, letting them know how much longer before they are released, etc. While I doubt they understand words, all the same I believe that saying it out loud does help to keep them in the loop.

There is a noise squirrels make in their throats that I call the happy squirrel noise. I mimic that noise as best I can, and while my "accent" is surely atrocious, it does seem to help comfort them. (This same noise often seems to work on wild squirrels in my yard, i.e. helps them to feel safe when I am out there.)

olorin19

01-25-2020, 11:14 AM

I think that sounds perfectly reasonable to me. It is a little hard to see in the photo, but if there is continuous, healthy, squirrel skin (very light greyish colored, perhaps a bit pinkish because it is new) then it sounds like he has recovered. It also sounds like he knows where to come home if anything occurs. Great job helping Mookie.:clap

Thanks TD for all your assistance with Mookie

Getting a decent photo is a two person job due to injury being way up inside ofrear leg.

I have cropped it below to zoom in a bit.

The skin looks as you describe - light grey with a hint of pink, and no sign of angry red, pus, etc.

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TubeDriver

01-25-2020, 11:33 AM

That looks good! When you see little hairs start to grow in, you can be 100% sure he is better but I would be 99% sure right now!:great

Thanks TD for all your assistance with Mookie

Getting a decent photo is a two person job due to injury being way up inside ofrear leg.

I have cropped it below to zoom in a bit.

The skin looks as you describe - light grey with a hint of pink, and no sign of angry red, pus, etc.

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olorin19

01-26-2020, 09:08 AM

Mookie is back outside in his release cage as of this morning.

As noted before, usually cage has a small door left open, so Mookie has been using the nest box frequently since his original 2018 release. I will open the door back up in a week.

The bottom cylindrical section (which includes the nest box) is 3' diameter and 6' high. There is a rectangular section above (only partially shown in second photo) that is connected by an opening at the end away from the nest box. Above the nest box there is a doormat, so he can hang out on top of the nest box itself and be out of the snow, rain, sun, etc. The top section is 3' high and open to the sky.

There is a lot of squirrel traffic in that area normally, as they like the hedge and log pile for cover, so Mookie will have plenty of visitors.

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olorin19

01-31-2020, 10:27 AM

Update and question:

Mookie has been out in his release cage since Sunday morning. It is now Friday, so his sixth day in the cage. He seems healthy but very eager to be released - starting to chew at the wires a bit and look for a way out.

By the second day out, he regularly has other squirrels either sitting on the log pile right next to him or climbing around on the outside of the cage. Nothing to me looks like anyone is trying to intimidate him. And he is not showing either fear (retreating into nest box) or active aggression (trying to chase them away, chattering, etc.)

Basically, everyone seems to be getting along fine. More often than not, it is only one squirrel by Mookie's cage. This winter, he has had a buddy who has often shared the nest box with him at night. His first winter out, I never saw Mookie share the nest box with another squirrel.

This sharing included the period during which he was injured and only using three legs but before I managed to get him inside for treatment. So in other words, this buddy was still hanging with Mookie and sharing his nest box amicably even when Mookie was vulnerable. I am thinking this is likely the same squirrel, although I cannot say for sure. (This buddy tends to flee if I go near the nest box so hard to identify.)

My original plan was to wait to release Mookie until Sunday morning, thus a full week in the release cage.

Would it be best to wait, or is he good to go tomorrow morning?

TubeDriver

01-31-2020, 11:15 AM

He has already spent significant time outside on his own so there is no real pressing need to do a full soft release. I also don't like that he is chewing on the metal bars. If he were in my care, I would release tomorrow morning. The only reason to keep him any longer IMHO is if there is some terrible snow storm coming?

Update and question:

Mookie has been out in his release cage since Sunday morning. It is now Friday, so his sixth day in the cage. He seems healthy but very eager to be released - starting to chew at the wires a bit and look for a way out.

By the second day out, he regularly has other squirrels either sitting on the log pile right next to him or climbing around on the outside of the cage. Nothing to me looks like anyone is trying to intimidate him. And he is not showing either fear (retreating into nest box) or active aggression (trying to chase them away, chattering, etc.)

Basically, everyone seems to be getting along fine. More often than not, it is only one squirrel by Mookie's cage. This winter, he has had a buddy who has often shared the nest box with him at night. His first winter out, I never saw Mookie share the nest box with another squirrel.

This sharing included the period during which he was injured and only using three legs but before I managed to get him inside for treatment. So in other words, this buddy was still hanging with Mookie and sharing his nest box amicably even when Mookie was vulnerable. I am thinking this is likely the same squirrel, although I cannot say for sure. (This buddy tends to flee if I go near the nest box so hard to identify.)

My original plan was to wait to release Mookie until Sunday morning, thus a full week in the release cage.

Would it be best to wait, or is he good to go tomorrow morning?

olorin19

01-31-2020, 12:06 PM

RockyPops

01-31-2020, 02:35 PM

Yay Mookie! :clap:dance

Be sure to get some video of that free baby...!

Good job dad!

olorin19

01-31-2020, 03:17 PM

My sun porch is a great place for squirrels to run and jump, but climbing opportunities are limited. When i am standing there in my double layer of sweatshirts, sweatpants, etc., I am actually the most interesting thing to climb.

This made for some fun moments when Mookie, Arya, and Iggy were all flying around on me at the same time.

But while Mookie had lots of opportunity to run and jump and thus get his leg back into shape, restore range of motion, etc., he did not do much climbing down. When he would climb down from me, he really did not use that right back leg - since he was only descending a few feet, he could easily do this with the other three legs.

The cage outside is a different story - not a great place to run, okay but not great for jumping, but excellent for climbing. And during the 5-6 days he has been outside, he is all over the cage, climbing and moving in all directions, and definitely hanging from and using the right rear leg just fine.

Imagine a squirrel climbing up, then turning to the side to go horizontal then turning again to climb back down. This move could be done by either two clockwise or two counterclockwise turns.

Two clockwise turns to reverse relies on the left rear leg, while two counterclockwise turns rely on the right rear leg.

Mookie is definitely able to turn either clockwise or counterclockwise.

Note to Zoolander fans: Mookie is an ambiturner.

olorin19

02-01-2020, 09:58 AM

Update:

We released Mookie this morning. (We recorded a short video which I need to figure out how to edit before posting.)

Anyways, Mookie came through the cage opening, jumped onto me, took a pecan, perched on my arm to better position the pecan in his mouth, then climbed down my leg after a minute. He then headed off across the yard, stopping on one of his favorite perches for a moment to survey his domain, then off to the back corner where he climbed the neightbor's back fence then ran along the top of the fence and off to wherever he goes in the morning to engage in important squirrel matters.

Basically, if this was before the injury and he had simply slept in the nest box inside the cage the night before I had made it out there in the morning while he was still waiting on top of his for breakfast, he did what he would normally do. While at night Mookie might eat a few nuts before going to bed, in the morning it has almost always been one pecan for the road then "see you later, dad, I've got stuff to do...."

My six month olds Arya and Iggy have seen Mookie and smelled him on my squirrel clothes all their lives. But the 16 days Mookie was on my sun porch was the first time they got to interact with him directly. After putting Mookie in the release cage last Sunday, we washed my squirrel gear. (Mookie's morning dose of antibiotics or probiotics came when I first got him out of the cage, so it occasionally resulted in him peeing on me a bit.)

So until; today, there would have been no Mookie scent on my squirrel gear. I got the kids out right after releasing Mookie. Both of them spent quite a bit of time this morning smelling my sweatshirt, right where Mookie had been perched.

I have always had the impression with both Mookie and Dustin after they were released that they liked to use me as a ladder to get up or down even when it was not strictly necessary. I always wondered if part of this was marking me with their scent.

RockyPops

02-01-2020, 01:39 PM

Can't wait to see video!

olorin19

02-01-2020, 04:04 PM

We let Mookie out at abut 8 a.m and did not see him the rest of the morning, which is not unusual.

When I got back from some errands in the early afternoon, he came running over from the next yard when he saw me. He spent the next 20 minutes or so jumping up on me to get a hazelnut then running off to eat or bury it.

There were lots of other squirrels out and about, and no sign of anybody trying to intimidate or chase Mookie. Mostly, the other squirrels kept out of his way.

Mookie did chase a few squirrels off when they either approached him when he was eating or burying a nut.

So basically, nothing out of the ordinary. Any of the above would have been normal before the injury.

HRT4SQRLS

02-01-2020, 05:09 PM

So happy to hear that Mookie is finally home. You are always there for your babies. :hug

olorin19

02-01-2020, 05:42 PM

So happy to hear that Mookie is finally home. You are always there for your babies. :hug

They're always family for me, and I do my best to watch over them.

They are each so different. While Mookie is by no means a clown, he is the squirrel that makes me laugh most often - just something about the way he moves about and his mannerisms.

Our neighbor's yard behind us slopes up, so we get a good view of a wide area with lots of squirrel activity. And even at 50 yards, we can usually pick Mookie out by how he moves.

olorin19

02-08-2020, 01:25 PM

Update:

Mookie was released a week ago today, and all is well.

My house is a ranch house, and Mookie knows how to find us by looking through various windows and glass doors until he finds one of us. He knows to check the glass back door, the window by my desk, the kitchen window (by jumping upon on the grille first), the dining room window (jumping on a deck chair first), the living room window (pictured below), and the front glass porch.

We positioned the hose caddy so that when Mookie jumps up on it then we can see him through the living room picture window when we are sitting in our chairs.

If he sees us and we fail to see him, he'll twitch his tail and/or put his paws on the window to get our attention.

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