Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

[LaurenKimberly888]

I took in 3 baby squirrels at the end of July. Assuming days old since they had their umbilical cords. Fed Esbilac until problems occurred and switched to fox valley.
Weaned quite some time ago.
Diet includes Henry’s blocks and Oxbow... but mostly fresh veggies and occasional fruits. Our entire family eats local and seasonal so lately this has been lettuce mix, squash (butternut/acorn/etc), occasional apple, broccoli, slice of banana or grapes.
Only problems ever have been toe injuries. One tip lost on a microfiber blanket hem (Little Boy) and the other in cage joint (Baby Girl)
(The new cage is a multi level critter nation lined with paper shred and microfiber). Just Trying to give as much history as possible so mentioning all health history.

Only RECENT changes... moved to a larger cage and also built an outdoor cage for “sunning” once I decided to overwinter before releasing. It’s cold in STL so I’ve only been taking them out for about 30 min to an hour of sun on the front porch.

Anyhow, my “Big Boy” actually had a cage to himself after showing dominance over smaller brother and sister 2+ months ago. Cages are stacked so contact wasn’t completely avoided. Other than a longer than usual mid day nap... there were NO signs. I found him dead in his hammock yesterday afternoon.

I’m crushed!
Since he was isolated, we had him out much more than his siblings. Became so much more attached than I ever imagined. Although they will be released this spring if all goes well, I’m taking the loss pretty hard.

Now I’m experiencing problems with both my remaining babes. Baby Girl (female) and Little Boy (male) are both seeming off. Sleepy, decreased appetites, just not right. Extra cuddly vs hyper and climbing the curtains. I have already diluted a tums and administered to both. I also have given each .5 ml of baytril (25mg/mL 5ml liquid).

Baby girl is showing a quick improvement but Little Boy is still concerning me with his extra cuddles and overall ill demeanor.

I am not a licensed rehabber so may not be able to keep them if I take them to a vet. That’s a chance I’m willing to take if it saves their life. Until that’s an option... please help. It’s a FRI evening, during the holidays, and our exotic vet will not even be available until TH.

Any advice welcome!
Ask any Questions I’ve left out.

[LaurenKimberly888]

PS.
Little Boy (showing most symptoms) is extremely thirsty. Drank lots of water, is passing normal urine and stool. Offering unlimited water and Oxbow with a small piece of apple. Was happy to take tums water and drinking regular water, but seems uninterested in food. I normally offer much greater variety but waiting until I rule out MBD and watch diet closely.
Baby Girl is back at darting around the house. Still doesn’t have great appetite which is concerning. (As in...up until now... I’ve never had them refuse ANY food. EVER! They’re bottomless pits!) But demeanor is much improved in the female.

What could this be that hit all 3 so fast and hard? I can’t imagine losing another fur baby :(

I will be sleeping with my Little Boy this evening to keep an eye on him. Also noticed his tail isn’t as “lively” and he has been stretching and yawning more than usual.

[LaurenKimberly888]

Last update...
Racking my brain as to what is going on.
Additional info,
1) we got new firewood and all the squirrels were playing and chewing on it while on our front porch.
2) not at the same time, but same place, is visited by my rehabbed and released raccoons and occasionally the visiting feral cat and opossums. The squirrels are only out mid day for a short sunning and occasionally to roam the front porch. No direct contact. But thinking of WHAT they’ve come in contact with that is outside the norm. They are primarily indoors.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I’m so sorry for your loss. :grouphug

What type of heat do you have? Do you have a carbon monoxide detector in your home?
It’s just a thought. I don’t think this is MBD. Your dose sounds very high. Can you give more details on the Baytril concentration.

[Nancy in New York]

I’m so sorry for your loss. :grouphug

Can you give more details on the Baytril concentration.


Patti, the strength is 25mg/ml.

[LaurenKimberly888]

Thank you for the condolences. He became more integrated in our family than ever intended so we are feeling his loss on a grand scale. My phone has more pics and videos of him than anyone else but I can’t get thru one without crying. Looking thru videos for clues
And I still see nothing! Just missing him and his antics.

DRASTIC improvements in both Little Boy and Baby Girl this AM. Energy is up (both are pacing cages for free time and treats) Appetite for Oxbow is down. Offered some pear slices and those where shunned. That’s still weird. Normally they will rip my snacks from my mouth!

Now I’m wondering WHAT I did that helped (Baytril vs TUMS) or both? Or was it something they just pulled thru? Seems unlikely since Big Boy was the strongest and largest, yet passed away without treatment.

We have carbon monoxide detectors and non have made a peep. We have had a few fires in the fireplace with the new wood I mentioned we got.

Their new cages is only rolled from our family room to the front porch and back so they’re rarely unattended. At night I cover their cage with sheets to minimize the poop litter.

[LaurenKimberly888]

Ps. I really would like to hold off on dosing Baytril or Tums until I know the exact amount and if it’s necessary. I am fortunate to have the Baytril left over from treating a pet rat. They are similar in build so I gave half the dosed amount to be safe.

Lastly, we also have 3 pet rats and I’m hoping this isn’t something they can get. Washing hands and minimizing cross contamination but cages are on the same level of the house.

[LaurenKimberly888]

Baytril 25 mg/mL 5ml

Prescribed at .1 for pet rat.
Administered .05 to both my squirrels.


I tried loading photos from my phone but I’m unsuccessful.

[RockyPops]

Good to hear that others two seem to be improving.

You mentioned new wood and raccoons. Is there a chance they picked up a bacteria etc. from the new wood or raccoons?

Has their poop or urine changed around this same time?

I am not experienced in these matters but just throwing out ideas.

Keep us posted. And pics would be nice.

Edit: (Just read where you've tried the pics) and what about chemicals or poison on new wood?

[LaurenKimberly888]

Heat is gas and central. No additional heat on the squirrels as they are in the middle of our living room for the winter.

[LaurenKimberly888]

Good to hear that others two seem to be improving.

You mentioned new wood and raccoons. Is there a chance they picked up a bacteria etc. from the new wood or raccoons?

Has their poop or urine changed around this same time?

I am not experienced in these matters but just throwing out ideas.

Keep us posted. And pics would be nice.

My thoughts when asking exactly.
Raccoons have been healthy and never in direct contact. But they come to the same porch I take them sunning in. I’ve only caught glances of the opossums and feral cat as they are not “mine”. No other contact with any other animals. I saved and examined Big Boy closely. Nothing visual.

Poops and urine have resumed as normal. Nothing abnormal before. Just minimal.

While I’m not a licensed rehabber, I’ve worked in the animal healthcare and rescue fields for 20+ years. I’m not a pro but I’m not green either :)

Is there a way I can post photos/videos from my phone?

[LaurenKimberly888]

Patti, the strength is 25mg/ml.

Baytril 25 mg/mL 5ml

Prescribed at .1 for pet rat.
Administered .05 to both my squirrels.


I’m sorry for the earlier typo. Dose I gave to each was .05 not .5

[RockyPops]

As for pics, do you access TSB from your phone as well or from a computer?

If from computer, you'll need to load photos onto your computer first I think.

Once on your computer there is an icon at top icon banner, just click on it and select photo from your files.

Sad to say but I'm not real tech savvy either!

[frankc]

Last update...
Racking my brain as to what is going on.
Additional info,
1) we got new firewood and all the squirrels were playing and chewing on it while on our front porch.
2) not at the same time, but same place, is visited by my rehabbed and released raccoons and occasionally the visiting feral cat and opossums. The squirrels are only out mid day for a short sunning and occasionally to roam the front porch. No direct contact. But thinking of WHAT they’ve come in contact with that is outside the norm. They are primarily indoors.

Hi I have been following the posts. First I am so sorry to hear you lost that baby. Most all of us here know your pain, and anytime we hear of a squirrel passing we all feel it along with you.
The question I have is about the fire wood. Is this wood from trees or is it by chance scrap lumber? Is there any treated wood that you have burned ? If so this could be a real problem not only for the squirrels but humans as well. Treated lumber should never be burned in a closed area, and even when burned outside you need to be up wind. It is very toxic. What type of wood are you burning if it is tree wood?, and do you get any smoke when starting the fire or while it is burning in the house.

[LaurenKimberly888]

The wood came from a coworker of the Mr.
He said it was stored on the back of the home for over a year and was a mix of fallen trees around their property. It’s definitely natural in origin. I will add, however, that there was a strong Smokey odor the evening we burned the new wood.

No access to a laptop at the moment, only my iPhone and iPad. But I can possibly borrow one.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Lauren, look under your post box and you will see MANAGE ATTACHMENT. Click that.

On the next screen, toward the upper right you will see ADD FILES. Click this.

Next is CHOOSE FILE. Click that.

You will get an option to take a pic or select from your photo library. Click Photo Library.

Select the pics you want to post. And then Upload. Then Insert. Your pic should show up.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Your diet looks perfect. They didn’t get excess nuts did they?
If not, I would rule out MBD.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Was the day you burned the wood the same day that Big Boy died?

I grew up with a fireplace in the home. It usually worked well but if the atmospheric pressure was high it didn’t draw well and smoke would enter the house. After I left home, my parents nearly died from CO poisoning or at least that was what was suspected. They both got sick at the same time while watching TV.

Is there any possibility it could have been air quality associated with the fire?

https://www.epa.gov/burnwise/wood-smoke-and-your-health


https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2013-11/infographic_square.jpg

[LaurenKimberly888]

Your diet looks perfect. They didn’t get excess nuts did they?
If not, I would rule out MBD.

I actually haven’t given them any nuts regularly. I’ve read that it can bring out aggression and possessiveness so they only receive the nuts that are in their Henry’s blocks. The times I’ve given them the occasional pecan or shelled walnut... that proved correct. That has been the only times they’ve show aggression towards me so holding off until it’s time to wild them up for release.

Also... Awaiting new Henry’s healthy blocks. It’s been maybe a week or two since they’ve had them. That’s because they end of our last batch had some mold show up on the inside. Awaiting another batch to be frozen. Assuming the rat food has plenty to hold them over, though. No other signs of MBD.

[LaurenKimberly888]

Was the day you burned the wood the same day that Big Boy died?

I grew up with a fireplace in the home. It usually worked well but if the atmospheric pressure was high it didn’t draw well and smoke would enter the house. After I left home, my parents nearly died from CO poisoning or at least that was what was suspected. They both got sick at the same time while watching TV.

Is there any possibility it could have been air quality associated with the fire?

https://www.epa.gov/burnwise/wood-smoke-and-your-health


https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2013-11/infographic_square.jpg

Them climbing around on the firewood was the only environmental change. As for burning a fire, the last one was Sunday evening and he passed on Thursday.

Is there a chance there was a bacterial contaminate on the firewood that responded to the Baytril?

[Diggie's Friend]

St. Louis Missouri, Michigan, or Oklahoma? No need to say here; but though to share that in St. Louis MO West Nile Virus was confirmed in mosquitoes. This virus presents with lethargic symptoms, being especially common to find in areas that WNV is present in young squirrels yet to get their full pelage.

Were any of these symptoms noted in this article present before the one squirrel expired?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1939863/

[LaurenKimberly888]

312624

[LaurenKimberly888]

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[HRT4SQRLS]

I actually haven’t given them any nuts regularly. I’ve read that it can bring out aggression and possessiveness so they only receive the nuts that are in their Henry’s blocks. The times I’ve given them the occasional pecan or shelled walnut... that proved correct. That has been the only times they’ve show aggression towards me so holding off until it’s time to wild them up for release.

Also... Awaiting new Henry’s healthy blocks. It’s been maybe a week or two since they’ve had them. That’s because they end of our last batch had some mold show up on the inside. Awaiting another batch to be frozen. Assuming the rat food has plenty to hold them over, though. No other signs of MBD.

Yes, the Henrys blocks need to be frozen on arrival. They will mold even in the refrigerator. They have no preservatives.

You can rule out MBD. There is nothing wrong with your diet.
Yeah, nuts make them go cuckoo so I also wait until closer to release.

[HRT4SQRLS]

If you want to dose the Baytril I can calculate it for you but I’m not convinced they need it. This happened way to fast for an infection. You would have noticed SOMETHING before death.

I would need their approximate weight.

Yes, it was the typo (0.5) in your original post that got my attention.

[LaurenKimberly888]

St. Louis Missouri, Michigan, or Oklahoma? No need to say here; but though to share that in St. Louis MO West Nile Virus was confirmed in mosquitoes. This virus presents with lethargic symptoms, being especially common to find in areas that WNV is present in young squirrels yet to get their full pelage.

Were any of these symptoms noted in this article present before the one squirrel expired?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1939863/

I’m in St. Louis.

I did not see any of those symptoms in Big Boy. Nor did I see them in the others. Only the lethargy.

However, I will add that I was out of the house most of the day before and of Big Boys passing. If there were symptoms, they would have been only shortly before his passing on. Despite being out of the home, I fed them several times that day and saw nothing out of the usual.

I’m really kicking myself, though. I’m at home with my youngest and an typically never out of the house more than an hour a few times a week. Because they are in our main living area, I am able to observe them closely. I was out of the house more than usual AND had their cage covered in the evenings. (Prevents poop scatter and keeps their circadian rhythm protected from our artificial light). I’m so torn up thinking I may have missed symptoms that could have saved him.

My other 2 are now bouncing off the walls, as usual. And my gut is telling me the antibiotics saved them from something :(

If that IS the case...
Did the one dose do the trick? Should I just keep a close eye on them? Or should I give another dose. If so, what is the correct dose?

I haven’t buried Big Boy, yet. I have kept his sweet little body frozen. We plan to bury him, together as a family, in our garden. However, does something like this warrant an autopsy?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Lauren, often we never know why a squirrel dies. We try to rule out everything possible but there are often missing puzzle pieces.

I did want to mention one thing. Your babies were Esbilac babies until you switched. We will never know the long term damage that was done to these babies. We did everything possible to remediate the situation but the question is .... did we fix it? Big ?

I know of a licensed rehabber that releases many squirrels for herself and others. Just recently she received a group of Esbilac babies for release. The next morning one of them was dead in the release cage. Was this a coincidence or was it related to their early deficiencies? We will never know but it is troubling.

[LaurenKimberly888]

If you want to dose the Baytril I can calculate it for you but I’m not convinced they need it. This happened way to fast for an infection. You would have noticed SOMETHING before death.

I would need their approximate weight.

Yes, it was the typo (0.5) in your original post that got my attention.

I’m ok waiting and only giving if necessary.
Sorry if my replies are out of order. A few times I’ve responded before reading a previous reply.

I will get accurate weights. However, now that they are feeling better... I may have to get weights once they are going to sleep for the night. That’s the only time they hold still long enough to weigh.

[HRT4SQRLS]

One dose wouldn’t cure them. It’s up to you if you would like to treat them. I would need the weight.

Edit... just saw your last post. Just let me know. I will be happy to calculate the dose if that’s what you decide.

[LaurenKimberly888]

Lauren, often we never know why a squirrel dies. We try to rule out everything possible but there are often missing puzzle pieces.

I did want to mention one thing. Your babies were Esbilac babies until you switched. We will never know the long term damage that was done to these babies. We did everything possible to remediate the situation but the question is .... did we fix it? Big ?

I know of a licensed rehabber that releases many squirrels for herself and others. Just recently she received a group of Esbilac babies for release. The next morning one of them was dead in the release cage. Was this a coincidence or was it related to their early deficiencies? We will never know but it is troubling.


Poor babes :(

I was fortunate to have a “made in the USA” can for the 1st half of their infancy and I noticed pretty quickly something was different when using a new can (marked “crafted in the USA). Thanks to this site I was able to transition them to fox valley. Honestly, they might not have had a chance without you all. I probably have over 24 hours of reading on this site. Standing on the shoulders of giants :)

I’m willing to accept I may never know what happened to my Big Boy. But if something can wipe out the strongest and spunkiest rodent in my house, I still fear for the others. Watching my other 2 and my 3 rats like a hawk now!

Thank you all for jumping in and trying to solve this puzzle for me. I’ve braced myself for the heartbreak of watching them leave me for the treetops. But nothing prepare me for losing one like this. I’m still shaking my head that I could love something as I did that creature.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I know it’s not much consolation but you did everything right. :grouphug

[LaurenKimberly888]

I know it’s not much consolation but you did everything right. :grouphug

That means quite a bit to me, actually.

I may be experienced at rehabbing animals and consider myself fairly competent. But I’m new to rearing squirrels and, in my opinion, no amount of research can replace the knowledge that comes with experience.

Thank you for your kind words

[frankc]

The wood came from a coworker of the Mr.
He said it was stored on the back of the home for over a year and was a mix of fallen trees around their property. It’s definitely natural in origin. I will add, however, that there was a strong Smokey odor the evening we burned the new wood.

No access to a laptop at the moment, only my iPhone and iPad. But I can possibly borrow one.

Hi Lauren
I have been following your post with great interest, and from what I have read so far, my best conclusion is that this very well might have to do with the wood. Wood that sits for a long period of time on the ground, as I am sure you know starts to decay. With that it will grown fungus, and other toxins as it decays. One of my questions you may be able to find out is when the wood was sitting was any insecticides used in or around the wood pile?
the reason I am asking this is because some of the poisons used such as in rat poison and some others makes the animal thirsty when digested. Usually in rat poison it is in pellet form however some of the other insecticides have almost the same chemical make up. Did you happen to notice if Big Boys tongue was swollen? If so it was poison. If not it still could be poison of some type. I think if it were me I would keep the other squirrels far away from that wood, and if it has been sprayed with an insecticide get ride of it the toxins can be released in the smoke. You said the wood had a smokey smell, is this wood dry or wet. If dry then there really should little or no smoke. If the smoke was medium to kinda heavy and the wood was dry then suspect what I said about insecticides. The other reason I came to this conclusion you said Big Boy was thirsty as I explained above poison will do that. This is all hypothetical at this point but I did want to pass along my thoughts to you. You and I are alike in that I too would have to know why ! I hope this gives you a starting point and please keep us posted on what you find out. :squirrel2

[Diggie's Friend]

Two natural (nutraceuticals) sources, Milk Thistle Seed and Pycnogenol, have been found to have powerful properties in combating toxins from fungus and pesticides in the liver, and Pycnogenol in the kidneys.
,
Wild Harvest Organic Milk Thistle Seed Elixer is a source that has been included in my captive care diet for tree squirrels, at one needle-drop onto a wet food from a (1 ml) (1 cc syringe) dose for maintenance daily.

https://www.amazon.com/Oregons-Wild-Harvest-Thistle-Supplement/dp/B00J9MKEUG

Pycnogenol included at 2 non needle drops (1 mg.) for maintenance daily.

For detoxification from either fungus or pesticides the amount for Pycnogenol should be higher than the measure for health maintenance. Since it hasn't been confirmed, only suspected, 10 mg. for a week, given every other day would be a reasonable level to considering adding to the diet. If then your squirrel begins to improve it may that these sources are working to counter possible toxins that have impacted these vital organs. Hard to say, save the woodpile could be confirmed to have been sprayed with pesticide compounds and/or developed fungal growth. What is not in question is the properties both these sources contain, which counter both alfatoxins (from toxic fungus), mycotoxins (from toxic mushrooms), and pesticides in the body.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00HA8CH6U/ref=sr_1_10?keywords=Healthy+Origins+Pycnogenol+30 +mg.&qid=1577085970&sr=8-10