Need advice on new baby squirrel ASAP

[Catem777]

So I have had my baby for about a month now and I got her when she was 6 weeks old. I am not 100%sure but I think she has been having seizures. It happens sometimes when she is in my bonding pouch and I just feel a very intense vibration (not the mild kind they do when communicating). She seems to curl up in a ball when it happens and gets pretty lethargic. I'm not sure what is normal since I am a new squirrel owner. She has only been active for about 4-6 hours a day and all the other time she moves really slow ,stays in her nestbox,or pokes her head out and stares. She still takes fox valley formula but also eats Henry's rodent blocks (almost 2 a day) ,veggies, fruits, an occasional meal worm, and a shelled nut . I didnt have rodent blocks when I first got her because I wasnt aware that she was on solids so it took me a while to get them shipped to me and I'm worried in that time span a calcium deficiency might have started. So I need any advice I can get. I wont be able to get her to the vet until Monday. So far I have mixed a calcium pill in her formula (600mg but she only drank 1/3-1/2 of the mixture) and I also rolled up some in peanut butter balls that have roughly 100mg of calcium per ball to give to her as well. I plan on cutting them in half since I heard flyers need around 50mg since they are smaller to supplement. My fiance thinks I am overreacting but I really think something might be up. Can she be harmed by this uptake in calcium if she isnt deficient? From all I read most reccomend treating as if you know they have MBD immediately to prevent brain damage but there is so much info out there. I just want to know I am doing everything to protect my little Dart so she is happy and healthy. Thank you in advance for any help or advice anyone has to offer.

[RockyPops]

Hello Catem777,

Welcome to TSB.

I'm no expert but please keep checking back here often. Someone will be able to help you and these threads are monitored by professionals on a regular basis.

Meanwhile, pics of your baby, weight etc. will be helpful to have on hand.

Thank you for loving your baby! Dart!

Does she have a name?

[frankc]

Hi Also did this baby fall from a nest ? This would also be important to know as babies usually land on there head being the heavier part of there body. This along with what Rockypops asked would be of great help.

[Catem777]

Her name is Dart, and I have not witnessed her falling. Her nesting box is at the bottom of her cage (I have bonding pouches up high but never witnessed her fall)
. She is usually active from 2am-7am so I havnt gotten to see her play too much so really cant tell you if she has. I have a fleece blanket on the bottom of her cage that is folded a few times so if she has fallen it would hopefully have softened her fall. I just weighed her in her bonding pouch and got around 85gms (bonding pouch included) the scale is a little small so I'm not sure how accurate it is :/. I tried to attach a few pics but not sure if it worked. Thanks so much for the quick reply!

[Catem777]

I'm starting to worry her cage might be too big for her at this age. The first one i had was way to small and she started doing backflips out of boredom so my breeder told me to put her in her final cage which is HUGE. I do have a travel cage that is about 4 feet tall it's just not as secure as my permanent one.....Should I consider putting her in the travel cage? I'm driving myself a little crazy with all this and it is really putting me off having kids lol. But others have assured me babies arent nearly as fragile or fast as a baby flyer hah.

[frankc]

Great This will help. Can you way the pouch, then subtract that from the 85 grams, that will be her actual weight. This will be import in dosing any meds. Do you by chance have any valium ?

[Catem777]

So her weight seems to be roughly 55 g if I am operating the scale correctly. Is this a good weight for a 10 week old baby? She seems to have a healthy appetite for the most part except for shunning blackberries .

[Catem777]

And valium for me or Dart? I have valerian root I should probably take so I can stop shaking out of worry :0.

[frankc]

Hi Catem
LOL!! I know what you mean it makes you into a nervous wreck. Stay by the computer I have sent out a request for help from the best on the board so help will be coming I am sure. In the mean time how is Dart doing ?

[Catem777]

Awe thank you so much!!! She is doing ok,just chilling in her bonding pouch on my chest clicking her teeth. She is a little cranky from me moving her back and forth from her pouch to be weighed but she likes her beauty rest !

[frankc]

Awesome !! Just stay close to the computer the call for help is out :squirrel2

[redwuff]

Hi Catum,

Can you tell me how often you are feeding formula and how much at a time. Is she drinking water out of a dish or water bottle? She is a beauty!

[Catem777]

I am feeding her formula 3 times a day roughly 5-6 hours apart and she drinks 1-2 syringes a feeding. My breeder told me to give her formula as long as she would take it (even as an adult) and that she would naturally wean herself when ready. I do catch her drinking water out of her bird style water feeder mostly after she has had a squirrel block so I know she knows where it is and how to use it but she still loves her formula. And thanks!!! She is a cute little fuzz ball.

[redwuff]

So I have had a few flyers and went back to the thread I had and looked for advice I had been given.

Looks like you are doing well with her. I was told that adding to formula mixing 2 parts water to 1 part formula and adding 1/2 part creme and 1/2 part yogurt. I would go ahead and do that even tho she is close to weaning. I don’t think being low on fat could cause seizures if that is what she is dealing with. But I could be wrong. Keep lights low and stimulus low also. When she has the shakes thing notice if anything is going on around you, noise etc. Dehydration could cause seizures but she is still on formula. Low calcium 1 month ago should not be an issue now if she was fed enough. When you can, could you get another weight on her and pictures of her sideways.

[redwuff]

I am feeding her formula 3 times a day roughly 5-6 hours apart and she drinks 1-2 syringes a feeding. My breeder told me to give her formula as long as she would take it (even as an adult) and that she would naturally wean herself when ready. I do catch her drinking water out of her bird style water feeder mostly after she has had a squirrel block so I know she knows where it is and how to use it but she still loves her formula. And thanks!!! She is a cute little fuzz ball.

You sound right on with feeding. I would go ahead and add creme and yogurt. How did you base how much to feed each feeding?

[Spanky]

So far I have mixed a calcium pill in her formula (600mg but she only drank 1/3-1/2 of the mixture) and I also rolled up some in peanut butter balls that have roughly 100mg of calcium per ball to give to her as well. Can she be harmed by this uptake in calcium if she isn't deficient?

The calcium is unlikely to harm her, but often "calcium pills" for humans have Vitamin D in them, often more than you'd want to give a squirrel. Can you tell us exactly what calcium pill you used?

[Catem777]

I'll try to weigh her again and get some more pics when my fiance gets home (I still can't handle her alone without being scared she will get away from me and get lost). I was under the impression that if I gave her fox valley formula I didnt need to add the yogurt and cream but if that's incorrect I'll start doing that asap. And the breeder I got her from said she should take 1-3 syringes per feeding and that she would stop feeding when she was full so I just followed those guidelines. There was a day where she didnt take her normal amount (barely 1.5 syringes per feeding but that was about a week ago and only lasted a day. I freaked out when that happened and frantically contacted the breeder at 12am...via messenger :0. I think I'm driving him crazy with my paranoia so I figured I would post here with this. And thanks for saying I'm doing ok.....I'm trying REALLY hard lol

[Catem777]

And the calcium does have D3 10mcg(400IU) but she has only had roughly half a pill so if the D3 is a concern I can stop with that and get a different supplement. I just figured if it were an emergency I should act just in case .

[Catem777]

She is in our living room which lights are on for a good amount of time. My fiance was playing call of duty around the time it happened which was even making me anxious with all the noise but she was in the bonding pouch so I dont think light is too much of a contributer. I just never really considered light and sound as a factor. I'll get some lamps to make the light more dim and have him wear headphones from now on.

[Spanky]

And the calcium does have D3 10mcg(400IU) but she has only had roughly half a pill so if the D3 is a concern I can stop with that and get a different supplement. I just figured if it were an emergency I should act just in case .

I would not give her any more of this calcium. You can get Tums (plain Tums, some of them also have Vitamin D) or order calcium from Henry's.

I just want to understand... has Dart had only the only seizure, during the game playing and what not?

Hold her to your ear and listen very carefully for a "clicking" sound or crispiness in her breathing... kinda like the snap, crackle, pop of rice crispies cereal. Since she is getting formula, it would be good to rule out Aspiration Pneumonia (AP).

When you say 2 - 3 syringes, are those 1ml syringes? And is the formula Fox Valley 20/50 or 32/40 (or something else)?

And finally, can you elaborate on her diet... what kids of veggies and how much. Ditto the fruit.

[Catem777]

Ok I'll hold off on the calcium until I get a better source. She is one fox valley 20/50 and the syringe is about 1/4 of a teaspoon (the measurements came off the syringe). I have been rotating her veggies every night so she gets a variety (cucumber,zuchinni,yellow squash,a little carrot,romaine ,mushrooms, broccoli, sugar snap peas,kale,spinach) . I usually give her veggies then come back a little later to give her a squirrel block (she gets one in the morning too) and if she eats most of her veggies i give her a small piece of fruit (apple,berries,banana,clementine,kiwi and so on) and also a shelled nut to crack. I did discover I was overfeeding her mealworms about a week back so I have pulled back on that and only give her 1 a day (which I'm hoping it still isnt too much)shenk just loves them so much.

I have not been able to detect any popping or clicking in her lungs (just clicking of her teeth lol).

And I have only noticed the seizures when she has been in the bonding pouch . At first I didnt really know what was going on (still not sure it's a seizure) but I dont really see what else it could be . They started about a week ago and I have probably been present for 3 or so.It seems to happen towards the end of the day but that is also when I usually have her in her pouch with me so it could be happening other times. But I will say that she gets up so late lately that I havnt had her in her play tent often because she is so sleepy when I'm up. I might have to start waking up early to get some play time in with her and observe. I am such a paranoid person that I convinced myself they weren't seizures and I'm being crazy .....but if I am right......I dont want her to suffer.

[Spanky]

They diet sounds right on... thank you for the additional information. The only thing I would suggest is giving her the block before her buffet of veggies.... and make sure she is eating them and not stashing them in her nest box and other places uneaten.

When you say overfeeding meal worms, how many was she getting before you cut back?

[Catem777]

Yea I will give her veggies first and hold out longer on the blocks and I was giving her 4-5 mealworms a day :0 I thought she needed alot of protein but was mortified when I read that it was far too much .....There is just so much info out there that is hard to get everything right. I think I'm on my way to perfecting it though. I also read that they will only eat what they need based off of instincts but am quickly learning that isnt the case! Dart would happily love off of fruit,mealworms and nuts if I let her lol so I'm realizing that those are more treats or her version of "junk food" hah.

[Spanky]

Yea I will give her veggies first and hold out longer on the blocks..

The only thing I would suggest is giving her the block before her buffet of veggies.... :thinking


I was giving her 4-5 mealworms a day...

Meal worms, while a good source of protein, are also calcium depleting... with about 1 part calcium to 7 parts phosphorous. The ideal diet is at 2 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorous. So you do need to be careful in how many they eat, kinda like nuts. Eggs (scrambled or boiled) and cooked chicken are good sources of protein too.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Catem, your diet is good. It just needs minimal tweaking. A flyer only needs one Henry’s block. And yes, way too many worms. I give my boys one or two at most. Based on the diet I don’t think Dart is calcium deficient. Of course a little calcium supplementing won’t hurt but I would not give a lot.

I have a flyer that also came from a breeder. I didn’t buy him. I received him as a sickly 18 month old boy that had seizures. His original owner did everything possible but could not get the seizures under control. He went to a rehabber and later I gave him his forever home. On his third day here he had a seizure. I was devastated. Bonzai’s seizures were very bad. His body became rigid and his limbs were flailing. After that he was terrified and wanted to hide.
His diet was not the issue. He wasn’t calcium deficient. He had never had head trauma. His seizures would be classified as idiopathic. That is a fancy word for unknown cause. There was a suggestion that it might be a genetic origin due to coming from a breeder but I have since ruled that out.

I have seen many cases of a flyer having a seizure out of the blue for no apparent reason. My personal feeling is that they are fragile little creatures and some are just prone to seizing. After observing Bonzai, I realized that light was a trigger for him. While in the cage he never had a seizure. If I took him out with the light on he would seize. With this observation I started controlling the lighting in his room. I never just flip the light on when he is awake. He just turned 9 years old in September and in the 7.5 years that I have had him he has had only 2 additional seizures. Both of those were caused by a stressful incident with another flyer. For Bonzai, controlling the triggers was all that was needed.

I’m not 100% sure that what you are describing is a seizure. It might be, but maybe not. Yes, they do vibrate as a means of communication. :)
You said this was while he was in the bonding pouch. Have all these incidents been while in the bonding pouch? If so you might want to consider that the pouch is stressful to Dart. I didn’t try a bonding pouch with Bonzai because of his health but Tucker (an 8 week old) HATED the bonding pouch. I had to stop using it with him.

I think observation is going to be your best course for now. I would not pump him full of calcium. The bonding pouch and the loud noise from the movie might have been a trigger. Watch him and note trends. It is easy enough to control triggers. That was what worked for Bonzai. It virtually eliminated his seizures. I don’t even think about it any longer. He is a healthy, happy, seizure free 9 year old.

[Catem777]

I think she likes the pouch but I might be keeping her in there either longer than she would like or too late in the evening. Sometimes she goes a little crazy trying to get out but will eventually calm down and settle back to sleep (usually in the evening). So I will just let her out from now on once she starts popping off in there because now that I think of it the seizures or intense whole body vibrations did always follow her trying to escape when they did occur. I really appreciate all of this help !!! Its priceless :)

[HRT4SQRLS]

I forgot to mention a protein source that I use for the boys. I buy a dog treat called PureBites dehydrated chicken. It is 100% chicken that is made in the USA. I don’t use any type of jerky as most are made in China. You can buy it in PetSupermarket and PetSmart. At PetSmart it is in the cat section as a cat treat but it’s the same product.

Some flyers will eat baked or boiled chicken.