Bacterial or viral infection???

[Squirreldad112]

So Remington has been sick for 11 days now. Lost about 40grams of weight. Tried tums, pedialyte, and pepto. Nothing seems to help much. He was eating very little but I've got him back up to 4 feedings a day at 5ml's of GM formula. Nothing seems to help his diarriah. If I dont get him cleaned up fast enough it drys over his anus and he strains to poop the next time. Hes has a couple of fresh bloody poops I believe is from the straining. Hes had only GM for the last two days. Could it be time to consider a bacterial or viral infection??? I'm doing everything I can including bringing him to work with me to feed him through out the day. Any ideas? Would love to get this little guy healthy again. Btw hes 12 weeks old now...

[lukaslolamaus]

Could the poor little guy have parasites?
I had a little girl with poop issues back in 2015, and everything I tried didn't work.
I didn't have a vet who was willing to do a fecal test, so I ended up buying a microscope to check her poop myself and found the problem.
In Sabrina's case penacur was the cure.
Here is her thread.
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?49939-baby-girl-rescued-from-cat
It may take a few more feedings of the GM formula to see a difference.

[Squirreldad112]

I'll definitely look into it and call around. I dont know how he could have got them since we've had him since he was 3 days old and never had an issue untill now. Hes been indoors for the most part. Some traveling when we went to visit my parents. So I assume you could just see the parasites moving around? I'm willing to try anything at this point. Do you have to test the poop very quickly or can I get a sample and have time to take it into a vet?

[lukaslolamaus]

I'll definitely look into it and call around. I dont know how he could have got them since we've had him since he was 3 days old and never had an issue untill now. Hes been indoors for the most part. Some traveling when we went to visit my parents. So I assume you could just see the parasites moving around? I'm willing to try anything at this point. Do you have to test the poop very quickly or can I get a sample and have time to take it into a vet?

I'm not sure how long you can wait on taking the poop to the vet or how much they need for a successful test. I'm sure they'll let you know when you contact them.
When I did it at home I did it as soon as she went, and yes there was movement.
I'm not an expert, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

[Squirreldad112]

Ok thank you very much for the reply. Where did you buy the microscope?

[lukaslolamaus]

A fecal would probably help with diagnosing anything else that may be going.

[Squirreldad112]

Can you please post what make and model you got?

[lukaslolamaus]

Ok thank you very much for the reply. Where did you buy the microscope?

I ordered mine of Amazon, it's nothing fancy .
This is what I has, but it's no longer available. Anything similar should work.
AmScope-KIDS 120X-240X-300X-480X-600X-1200X Educational Beginner Biological Microscope Kit with Metal Frame https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FKHN8BQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_GFJKDbYBGG72M
I think it was about $30

[Squirreldad112]

Great thank you. I'll see if I can find one.

[Squirreldad112]

If it's not parasites, any idea what ki d of antibiotics I will need, anyone?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Give me a minute to post.

[HRT4SQRLS]

That poor baby. I really don’t think this is bacterial, viral or a parasite but there is a treatment we can try.
I believe that your baby is still suffering from the harmful effects of the ‘bad’ Esbilac on the GI tract. My personal belief is that the Esbilac has contaminating toxins in it. This is speculation at this point but we will have the proof at some point in the future. Some of these Esbilac babies are not turning around with a simple formula change. Some are.... some are not. I believe your baby might be one of those.

There is something we can try. If you would like you can definitely get a fecal parasite analysis at a vet but be aware that most vets won’t provide ANY service to wildlife. Also, be very careful approaching random vets as it is illegal in most states to have wildlife in your possession if you are not a licensed rehabber. If you have an established relationship with a vet, they might do it as a favor.

I think it would be helpful to try a course of Metronidazole. It is an antibiotic/antiprotozoal that is used for both anaerobic bacteria and Protozoa (Giardiasis). You might know it by its Tradename Flagyl. I don’t really think this is bacterial or parasitic. The reason I think this would be good is because of the drugs anti inflammatory properties. It is a immunomodulator. In other words it has anti inflammatory effects on the GI tract. I REALLY think inflammation is an issue here. We have a very well known vet used by many on this board (DrE) who personally told me that she uses Metronidazole on animals with diarrhea that just won’t stop. It might not treat the cause but it will settle the GI down long enough to get back to even.

We can get Metronidazole to you if you want to try. How long has the been on the goat milk formula. By goat milk formula, I assume you mean goat milk, heavy cream and yogurt. I have been studying non-stop since this ‘Esbilac’ issue developed. I was surprised to see how little nutrients Goat Milk has in it. It is very digestible but doesn’t have a lot of nutrients. The fat content is 3.8% and the protein is 3%. The heavy cream and yogurt help to boost the nutrients but it isn’t good for very long. You might have to just bite the bullet and transition to the permanent formula Fox Valley and start from there.

My recommendation would be a course of Metronidazole.

[Squirreldad112]

Ok I will have my wife read what you just posted. I'm ready to try anything at this point. I have him at work with me today so I'm able to stay on top of keeping his anus clean. So the blood stopped. Hes been only GM formula mix for about 3 days now. So I should make the switch to fox valley this evening? Should I start at half strength or just go for it? For the breif couple days we were giving him tums mix his poops were at least a little more brown. Same consistency though. I am very interested in the antibiotics. How do we get that process started? Also do you recommend a certain amount at feeding? Iv. Even feeding him 5-6ml's at each feeding

[CritterMom]

I have been studying non-stop since this ‘Esbilac’ issue developed. I was surprised to see how little nutrients Goat Milk has in it. It is very digestible but doesn’t have a lot of nutrients. The fat content is 3.8% and the protein is 3%. The heavy cream and yogurt help to boost the nutrients but it isn’t good for very long. You might have to just bite the bullet and transition to the permanent formula Fox Valley and start from there.

My recommendation would be a course of Metronidazole.

Leigh at Henrys did some tinkering along with a vet and made some changes to the formula:

3 Tbsp goats milk
3 Tbsp yogurt
2 Tbsp heavy cream
1/2 raw egg yolk

The babies that were definitely being treated for MBD had calcium carbonate added at the rate of 500mg for the above recipe. The whole thing makes 1/2 cup but you will be discarding and making fresh daily. I have no idea how it would freeze.

The fat and protein were adjusted by the addition of more yogurt and cream, and of course the egg yolk adds lots of protein. So this is a souped up version of the 3-1-1 formula.

[CritterMom]

Ok I will have my wife read what you just posted. I'm ready to try anything at this point. I have him at work with me today so I'm able to stay on top of keeping his anus clean. So the blood stopped. Hes been only GM formula mix for about 3 days now. So I should make the switch to fox valley this evening? Should I start at half strength or just go for it? For the breif couple days we were giving him tums mix his poops were at least a little more brown. Same consistency though. I am very interested in the antibiotics. How do we get that process started? Also do you recommend a certain amount at feeding? Iv. Even feeding him 5-6ml's at each feeding

He should be eating 5-7% of his body weight per feeding, but you will likely have to work up to that. He is 300 grams? 5% would be 15ml.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Just so you know, when a baby is on formula the poop is light colored, yellowish to golden color so I wouldn't be concerned about the color. It's the consistency that's a problem. Why don't you wait until tomorrow and start transitioning to the FoxValley. Do it slowly. Don't abruptly switch. (75% GM/25%FV.....50%GM/50%FV.... 25%GM/75%FV..... 100% FV.
I'm concerned about the continued weigh loss so getting on the permanent formula (FoxValley) will provide more nutrients.

I will send a PM about getting the meds.

The amount fed is based on the weight. A guideline for the amount is 5-7% of the body weight per feeding. Example... a 100g baby would be fed 5-7ml per feeding.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Leigh at Henrys did some tinkering along with a vet and made some changes to the formula:

3 Tbsp goats milk
3 Tbsp yogurt
2 Tbsp heavy cream
1/2 raw egg yolk

The babies that were definitely being treated for MBD had calcium carbonate added at the rate of 500mg for the above recipe. The whole thing makes 1/2 cup but you will be discarding and making fresh daily. I have no idea how it would freeze.

The fat and protein were adjusted by the addition of more yogurt and cream, and of course the egg yolk adds lots of protein. So this is a souped up version of the 3-1-1 formula.

Is this the recipe being used here?

[Squirreldad112]

3:1:1 gm, cream, and yogurt. No eggs. I will have to re weigh him when I get home. I will also start to give more at feedings. Just didnt want to do to much with his little tummy so upset.

[HRT4SQRLS]

What do you think CritterMom? Do you think the boosted GM formula would be worth a try? It would be less change than going to FV. He already has the ingredients. I’m sure everyone has an egg. :tilt

Too many changes at one time isn’t a good idea. Go to boosted GMF and start increasing the amount.
The metro can be used at any time but I think it would help.

Does this sound reasonable?

[CritterMom]

I do. This baby has had so many things thrown at him already.

Has he started to eat solids? I would SO get him some of the Henrys Blocks -
the Picky Bites or as far as my squirrels are concerned, the new Hazelnut Blocks. They are designed to actually TASTE good and have all the calcium he needs. Plus dry food helps with the diarrhea simply because it goes through the digestive tract more slowly than liquids.

https://www.henryspets.com/squirrel-diet/

While you are there, go to the supplements section and grab a small bag of the calcium carbonate powder - it is only a few dollars. It has NO flavor or anything else you find in Tums and is very easy to hide in food if you need to.

[Squirreldad112]

I'll get that stuff ordered up tonight. No hes not on solids yet. He nibbles at his Zuprine blocks every now and again when we were only giving him 2 ml's at a time, he was hungry. I'll try the boosted GM formula for a couple days and see what happens. Problem is hes self weined through this last week. Horrible timing. I have to force him the formula ( not to fast though, I go slow and he swallows it down) as where he use to really just go for it like crazy. I worry about letting him go hugry from all the weight hes lost and having little intrest in the blocks.

[CritterMom]

I'll get that stuff ordered up tonight. No hes not on solids yet. He nibbles at his Zuprine blocks every now and again when we were only giving him 2 ml's at a time, he was hungry. I'll try the boosted GM formula for a couple days and see what happens. Problem is hes self weined through this last week. Horrible timing. I have to force him the formula ( not to fast though, I go slow and he swallows it down) as where he use to really just go for it like crazy. I worry about letting him go hugry from all the weight hes lost and having little intrest in the blocks.

That is why he needs to try these. The person who designed them (same lady who came up with the new formula BTW) made them to be tasty because almost NO squirrels want to eat enough of the commercially available diets and having tried them - yeah, I do that - I don't blame them!

When you get them, put a few in a baggie in the refrigerator and the rest in the freezer. They have no preservatives.

[Squirreldad112]

Perfect! Thank you so much for all the help. I'll post his weight tonight and give an update. I'll be sure to get the new blocks ordered as well. I'll also give him his first feeding of the new GM formula with the egg in it!

[RockyPops]

Squirreldad, thanks for being there for this baby. I know your busy with him and life in general, but a few pics of your baby would be so great.

[Squirreldad112]

I'll see what I can do when I get home. And thank you! It's been very busy and tough. My wife and I are definitely busy with him. Hes definitely won our hearts! We love him, he's my little dude! It's funny because if you met me you wouldn't think I'd be like this with a squirrel lol. I love pets but I'm a mechanic and I hunt so it's an odd relationship I guess. Our lives definitely changed the day my girls found him in our chicken coop. Thanks again for your support!

[Squirreldad112]

This is him just before he got sick. I will try to get a good one tonight of him! He's super froggy and playing with me now❤

[Squirreldad112]

Hey was pretty spunky this morning. Took down 10.5 ml's almost like he wanted to lol. I weighed him last night and hes still about 275 grams. We'll see if he starts to gain weight with eating more at each feeding now. Untill his poops straighten out I'll just be happy if he maintains weight.

[CritterMom]

He is ridiculously adorable.

The formula should be richer now and adding MORE heavy cream to a recipe is pretty much always a win, taste-wise. I won't comment on the raw egg - after all these years and all the times I have seen it, I still can't watch the scene in "Rocky" where Stallone chugs the eggs. :yuck:yuck:yuck

[Squirreldad112]

Thank you! He's a little cuddle big too when hes done playing. Hes fallen asleep with me on my chest many times on the couch and my wife has to wake us up and put us to bed lol. As far as the formula... the eggs we had left were questionable ( we dont eat alot of eggs) we didnt want to risk giving him a bad egg so we just did the original GM formula with 25% fox vally last night and this morning. I made the same mix for today as I have him at work again with me. Wont be able to make it to the store u till tonight. Unless you guys think we might as well run with it? I was kinda thinking since he seemed more interested in that mix, and the fox vally giving more nutrients, maybe we just bump the recipe up 25% each day untill hes on full fox vally. Any objections? Again I cant thank you ladies enough for all your help and support. Anxious to get him on the metro and see if his poop firm's up...

[Squirreldad112]

Just fed him another 10.5ml. He actually ate it on his own this time! Still has the squirts but hes clearly feeling better! Gosh I wish his poops would form up!!!

[Squirreldad112]

Remington is going after the formula like crazy today! Easy to feed him again. Eating 13ml's 4 times a day now. Feeling much better! Still has yellow diarrhea and its alot to keep up with now that hes eating 13mls as a time. I really hope it firms up soon!!! Looking forward to trying the metro.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Wonderful. Happy to hear that. Now that he’s on his permanent formula his GI tract can adjust that it with no more changes. If it doesn’t clear now meds are the next step.

[RockyPops]

And thank you for the picture!

They are so precious at that age.

Get better soon little boy!

[Squirreldad112]

Thank you everyone for all your help! Were finally back to normal poops and hes on happy boy! So much stress has been lifted. It was just like when my kids were little and sick, just takes everything out of you. Hes my little dude and couldn't be happier now that hes healthy again!

[HRT4SQRLS]

I’m so happy to hear that. :grin2

[Squirreldad112]

Spoke to soon... was eating lots of formula and avocado yesterday. Now today he doesn't have an appetite and just wants to sleep. I dont get it. He ate a little avocado this morning and I have to force him 3ml of formula and 1ml of water. Hes been great last couple days. So I just dont get it...

[Nancy in New York]

He ate a little avocado this morning and I have to force him 3ml of formula and 1ml of water. Hes been great last couple days. So I just dont get it...

I'm sure you already know this, but I just have to ask.
You took the skin off the avocado and discarded the pit, correct?

[Squirreldad112]

Yes I did. I just dont understand why he doesn't feel good today. He was doing soooo much better. Last few days he was eating his formula like a champ. Now today its forced. He did eat some more avocado on his own thought. I know his tummy is upset because he threw up when I first tried to give him formula this morning. Kept his cado and formula down next time I tried to feed him though.

[CritterMom]

Is everything you are feeding him absolutely fresh? Formula needs to be discarded at the end of the day. Formula powder should be stored in the freezer. Are you using goats milk still? Is it fresh?

The only thing new seems to be the avocado. I would stop giving it to him. A lot of people will disagree with me I am sure, but I do not feed avocado. I don't feed any food when part of the food is toxic! The seed and skin has a toxin called persin in it and it CAN leach into the meat of the avocado; in fact all parts of the avocado are considered toxic to birds.

I am wondering if he regurgitates due to upset from the force feeding. Next time he gives you a hard time, just leave him alone for a half hour or so and try again. Make sure everything is warm enough.

[HRT4SQRLS]

CritterMom is reading my mind again. I was coming back here to tell you to not feed him avocado. I never feed babies avocado. I do feed it to adults but not babies. That tiny bit of persin toxin in the flesh might be enough to make a baby sick, especially a baby that already has a funky GI tract anyway.

Give him a rodent block. The first veggies I give are kale, broccoli, hard squash, etc.

[Squirreldad112]

Hes 13 weeks now. Is that to youg for avocado? We pull the pit and skin and cut away the portion that touches the pit and skin. Even if I wait a half hr he still wont want the formula. If he doesn't feel good this little guy will not eat on his own except for the avocado. I also give him a little water in a syringe through out the day. We are off the GM formula and on fox vally 20/50 now. We keep it in the fridge. When he wont eat I can only get about 3-6mls of formula down before he will start fighting me tooth and nail.

[lukaslolamaus]

How is little Remington doing?

[Squirreldad112]

Sorry for such a delay in response. Remington is doing great! Gained all his weight back and fully weaned from formula. Been dealing with hectic schedules and sick children. I will post some pics of rem tonight!