Esbilac UPDATE: OK to use

[Spanky]

PetAg, the makers of Esbilac puppy formula, has recently informed some Esbilac users that the “ingredient particles” of the calcium source in the Esbilac formula may be too large to be properly digested by small mammals. This change appears to have been made in recent months.

TSB has been seeing members report a higher than normal rate of diarrhea, constipation, bloating and now bone (MBD) issues with babies being fed the Esbilac formula in the fall 2019 season.

Update 10/02/2019
As a result of the Esbilac fiasco the following is a "permanent" formula for use for babies up to 4 weeks old.

hGMF+ (Homemade Goat's Milk Formula Plus (Not temporary, for use in babies up to 4 weeks)):


3 parts Goat's Milk

3 parts plain yogurt

2 parts heavy cream
1 Egg Yolk for per cup of formula


To make 1 Cup of formula:


6 Tablespoons of Goat's Milk

6 Tablespoons of yogurt
4 Tablespoons of heavy cream

1 Egg Yolk for per cup of formula



To make 1/2 Cup of formula:



3 Tablespoons of Goat's Milk

3 Tablespoons of yogurt

2 Tablespoons of heavy cream

1/2 Egg Yolk for per cup of formula (The unused 1/2 egg yolk can be saved in the fridge (covered) for the next day's batch)



We consider this to be super-perishable, so 24 hours in the fridge max.

More detailed information on this goat's milk formula can be found in the following link:
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...ilk-Formula*** (https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?29904-TEMPORARY-Goat-s-Milk-Formula***)

If your babies are 3 ½ weeks or older, please order Fox Valley 20/50 and transition your babies to that when it arrives. Here are links to a few of the on-line retailers of Fox Valley 20/50:

https://www.henryspets.com/fox-valle...formula-20-50/ (https://www.henryspets.com/fox-valley-day-one-formula-20-50/)

https://www.amazon.com/Fox-Valley-DA.../dp/B00EFX23LM (https://www.amazon.com/Fox-Valley-DAY-Formula-Squirrels/dp/B00EFX23LM)

If your babies are younger than 3 ½ weeks, we recommend you keep them on the temporary Goat’s Milk formula until they are 4 weeks old then transition to Fox Valley 20/50. Also please monitor this thread in event this recommendation changes and an alternative is identified (this is our hope).

We realize that not having an "off the shelf" option for baby squirrel formula will be inconvenient for many but raising healthy happy babies is our mission and that requires buying formula on-line… at least for now!

[Diggie's Friend]

I was wondering whether a small amount of plain whole fat goat kefir would be good to add to the goat milk to enrich it, seeing the kefir is high in fat and very low in sugar?

(scroll down to see nutrient profile)

https://redwoodhill.com/products/plain-kefir/

[RockyPops]

Not sure where to put this but the big yellow banner warning about Esbilac locks me out when I click on it. Says I dont have permissions or something.

Edit: Never mind, I tried it again and it went to the post.

[kcassidy]

I was wondering whether a small amount of plain whole fat goat kefir would be good to add to the goat milk to enrich it, seeing the kefir is high in fat and very low in sugar?

(scroll down to see nutrient profile)

https://redwoodhill.com/products/plain-kefir/

You don't need to buy Kefir. We know the above recipe works, no need to add more to it.

Spanky, if you're using Goats Milk, why wouldn't you just use GME It can be kept for 48 hours, where as Goats Milk has to be mixed for each feeding?

[Diggie's Friend]

You don't need to buy Kefir. We know the above recipe works, no need to add more to it.

I didn't say kefir was needed, nor was I challenging that this recipe doesn't work well as is.

I was just wanted to know if the source could be used, that is instead of whipping crème, as a source of extra fat, since its also high in nutrients. I knew someone that added yogurt, and wanted your opinion on this source as a possible option.

[LaurenKimberly888]

I just logged onto the board searching for help with what appears to be bloat and one of my 5 to 6 week old babies. Anything else I can do besides stop esbilac? Also, will I see any side effects from switching to the goats milk formula?

I have suspected issues with the new batch of formula and now my suspicions are confirmed. Despite it being 1 AM I’m heading to the grocery store now.

[LaurenKimberly888]

I just logged onto the board searching for help with what appears to be bloat and one of my 5 to 6 week old babies. Anything else I can do besides stop esbilac? Also, will I see any side effects from switching to the goats milk formula?

I have suspected issues with the new batch of formula and now my suspicions are confirmed. Despite it being 1 AM I’m heading to the grocery store now.

Also, should I immediately stop feeding esbilac in all 3 of my squirrels? One is showing severe symptoms. Initially it was loose bowels. Now he is slightly bloated with a more firm tummy. He’s the runt of the group.
The other 2 have had harder and darker stools but otherwise are not showing any I’ll symptoms. In those 2 should I stop immediately, slowly wean, or keep feeding esbilac until I can get some fox valley?

Thanks!
Lauren

[Spanky]

Spanky, if you're using Goats Milk, why wouldn't you just use GME It can be kept for 48 hours, where as Goats Milk has to be mixed for each feeding?

My initial post is the current consensus recommendation of the TSB Admins and what we have confidence in recommending. The following is my reply to the question fully acknowledging I am rookie when compared to the other admins and untold numbers of TSB members.

Esbilac and Goat's Milk Esbilac (GME) are both PetAg products...

a) While PetAg has said the GME does not contain the same dicalcium phosphate ingredient, at this point we are not convinced that the calcium issue is the only problem based upon what has been occurring with babies on the Esbilac this fall (this includes other species that have been impacted even more dramatically than squirrels).
b) We do not have large knowledge base and confidence upon which to confidently recommend the GME ***.
c) We do have the knowledge base and confidence in the homemade goat's milk formula.

But as in the original post, one of our very biggest concerns is not having an off-the-shelf formula recommendation at this time but we do hope that changes.

*** I created a new thread to discuss, share and build a knowledge base for GME here:
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?63336-Let-Share-Share-Goats-Milk-Esbilac-experiences&p=1299738#post1299738

[Spanky]

Anything else I can do besides stop esbilac? Also, will I see any side effects from switching to the goats milk formula?


Also, should I immediately stop feeding esbilac in all 3 of my squirrels? One is showing severe symptoms. Initially it was loose bowels. Now he is slightly bloated with a more firm tummy. He’s the runt of the group.
The other 2 have had harder and darker stools but otherwise are not showing any I’ll symptoms. In those 2 should I stop immediately, slowly wean, or keep feeding esbilac until I can get some fox valley?

Thanks!
Lauren

If the symptoms that are showing are MBD, I would start them on the MBD protocol. If it is the diarrhea, constipation, bloat the Goats milk formula should help with that. At 5 - 6 weeks I would transition them over in just a few feedings and not over days.

[LaurenKimberly888]

Thank you. I will stop the esbilac cold turkey in the one with abdominal firmness and bowel issues. In the other 2, I will transition.

Thinking 75 esbilac/ 25 goats milk recipe to start?

Thanks again for the quick response!

[Milo's Mom]

Could admin please lock this thread. This back and forth is already confusing a very serious issue. The keifer and GME don't belong in this thread those are discussions for another thread. GME already has it's own thread, thank you Spanky.

[whisperer]

Is there a list of expiration dates that are effected.

I have a can with expiration date 12/20 that I opened 8/27, and I also see that CS&M sent me the can without probiotics. Last one had it.
I just assumed that all Esbilac had it now , so I didn't look for it on the label. Didn't know it was still made without, or did they just sent me the
older product to get rid of it.

Perhaps this is why I am having babies to diarrhea.

[whisperer]

Let me clarify what I meant,

I am wondering if the problem I am having with diarrhea is the problem with Esbilac 2019.

Is there a list of effected expiration dates.

[island rehabber]

Whisper I am going to say that I believe it is due to the Esbilac problem and I would stop use of it immediately ...I will leave this thread open unless other admins strongly disagree, but let's try to stay on topic.

[Spanky]

Let me clarify what I meant,

I am wondering if the problem I am having with diarrhea is the problem with Esbilac 2019.

Is there a list of effected expiration dates.

We do not know the lots of affected products and anecdotally we have members that have not had problems and those that did with expiration dates were the same. I am one of the fortunate ones that has not had issues, although I did take in a pair with fractures that were on Esbilac with another experienced caretaker for a week before coming here. They had diarrhea and I had convinced myself the original caretaker was not using Esbilac or maybe using the canned liquid, but now I know I was very wrong to think that. They also had fractures that the vet said they were older than a week... but now I am questioning everything!!! I have stopped using Esbilac and switched to FV 20/50; all my babies are eyes opened at this point.

I would switch to FV, it is not worth the risk.

If you contact PetAg they may refund your money or replace the can (Zoologic 33/40?).

[whisperer]

Thanks Island Rebabber,


I will call Petag about the dates

[Javarat]

I also see that CS&M sent me the can without probiotics. Last one had it.They took the blue banner off the newer cans, and moved the probiotics listing to the back of the can.
They claim it still has probiotics.
Not having the blue banner on the front is probably a good way to identify cans from the new supplier.

[whisperer]

My can still has the blue banner, just not with pre and probiotics listed in the banner

[CallaLily47]

Are there specific brands I should be purchasing? Im very worried about my baby. Had him for three days now and have been givjng him pedialyte, water and applesauce. I can get these things tomorrow. But still very concerned...

[Spanky]

Are there specific brands I should be purchasing? Im very worried about my baby. Had him for three days now and have been givjng him pedialyte, water and applesauce. I can get these things tomorrow. But still very concerned...

You need to start him on the temporary goats milk formula (the recipe is in the first post of this thread along with a link to a more detailed thread on the recipe). Applesauce is not sufficient nutrition for a baby squirrel!

The temporary goats milk formula is necessary because there are not any off-the-shelf formulas that are sufficient to meet the nutritional needs of squirrels at this time... that is what this thread is about... the change by the manufacturer to what was the only formula that could be used to raise squirrels: I is no longer suitable and squirrels are getting sick and not doing well! Then order some Fox Valley 20/50 (there are some sites that sell this also listed above) and feed your baby that.

Edit: I just read the thread you started where basically all this same information and more was provided. The "brand" you need to use is Fox Valley 20/50 and it needs to be ordered on-line as it is a specialty formula rehabbers use for squirrels.

[CallaLily47]

I know this I just didnt have the money for it. I couldnt just leave the little guy in the road. Ive been freaking out trying to figure out what to do for the poor thing. I got what I needed from this. So im deleting my account. You people can go to hell. Im trying my best. Im just not as fortunate as others so piss off and have a nice life with your amazing squirrels. Jerks.

[Spanky]

I had no intent to be the jerk that was perceived. Nor had I read your entire other thread at 3AM and was familiar with your individual circumstances.

Now that all my babies are fed this morning and I am refreshed by a full 5 hours of (broken) sleep.. I see that maybe you were asking about brands of goat's milk, yogurt, etc. It will not matter if this is a temporary formula until the Fox valley arrives. The powdered goat's milk (in the baking isle usually with thing like condensed milk) will be more economical. Vanilla or plain yogurt is great, avoid the "sugary stuff" with fruit and such added.

[island rehabber]

THE PEDIALYTE WILL KILL HIM IF YOU DON'T STOP. It can only be fed for 24 hours -- NO MORE! The extreme amount of sodium (salt) in Pedialyte will blow up his joints and kill him, so whatever you think of us, THINK OF YOUR SQUIRREL AND DO THE RIGHT THING.

Fox Valley is about $12/lb. It will feed one baby for weeks and weeks. How much is a movie ticket now? How much is Starbucks? How much do you pay for cable/satellite/whatEVER television?

An animal's life is WORTH IT.

[TubeDriver]

Don't just leave here, we can try to help. We understand that there are lots of different folks in different situations here but we are all united by caring hearts, otherwise we would not be helping squirrels. We might be able to find a rehabber near you who can help or help you to find some way to get your baby some help. People here are just trying to help and sometimes in the rush of the moment or where there us great urgency, folks can be direct. But we always are trying to help squirrels and their finders.



I know this I just didnt have the money for it. I couldnt just leave the little guy in the road. Ive been freaking out trying to figure out what to do for the poor thing. I got what I needed from this. So im deleting my account. You people can go to hell. Im trying my best. Im just not as fortunate as others so piss off and have a nice life with your amazing squirrels. Jerks.

[Mel1959]

Yes, Calla, folks only want to help you and your baby. I know the formula is expensive. If I was closer I’d gladly give you some or the money to buy some, but I’m in Florida. That’s why Nancy In New York’s offer is so wonderful. If you can work something out to get to her I know she will help in any way she can. The urgency is that your little guy needs some nourishment suitable for a squirrel.

If you can get to the store and buy some goats milk, yogurt and heavy whipping cream and follow the goats milk recipe (3 parts goats milk, fresh is best, 1 part yogurt and 1 part heavy cream) it will at least provide your little one with some much needed nourishment. It can be any brand of yogurt without artificial sweeteners or flavors.

[Asos]

I know this I just didnt have the money for it. I couldnt just leave the little guy in the road. Ive been freaking out trying to figure out what to do for the poor thing. I got what I needed from this. So im deleting my account. You people can go to hell. Im trying my best. Im just not as fortunate as others so piss off and have a nice life with your amazing squirrels. Jerks.

Hi Calla!
I understand your frustration, and it's hard to follow the threads and be new to baby squirrel care. I have my first baby and just joined last month but everyone has been amazing so far. Even with my veterinary background I've learned SO much on here. You're all that baby has unless you find a rehabber close by. I haven't seen your other thread, but I just got my fox valley 20/50 in the mail yesterday and could mail you some from OHIO if you need some help to get started (if baby is 4+ weeks). In the meantime, my baby did phenomenal on the recommended GMF when he had trouble with Esbilac and I found him as a pinky (he's 5 weeks now!). I only have one baby and don't expect I'll be able to use the whole pack before he's weaned. Even if I do, I don't mind helping. Just PM me if you're interested. :grouphug -Amy

[Nancy in New York]

I sent CallaLily47 an email.
I hope she responds to me soon.
I will keep you all posted if she does. 311286

[Marymo]

Hello, just joined this forum. I have been using Esbilac and have not had any issues. That being said, I will supplement my babies with additional calcium. Last year I tried Fox Valley with poor results. Go figure. Has anyone combined Esbilac and Fox Valley?

[Mel1959]

Welcome :Welcome Yes, Before the Esbilac situation, many Rehabbers switch to a 50/50 mix of Esbilac and Fox Valley 20/50 when their babies eyes open.

Check your can. Does it have a flag on it and say “made in USA”? Or does the label say “crafted in the USA? The cans that say made in the USA appear to be the old formulation and seem to be fine.

If your can is the “crafted” one it would probably be best to gradually switch your guys to Fox Valley.

[Sir Rodney]

I just want to say that you are wonderful people, helping us with our baby squirrels, and I hope the harshness of a frustrated and possibly grieving person (above, top post) doesn't spoil any of the loving vibe that pervades this forum. You helped me save my baby and I respect your knowledge and wisdom and most of all, your love for and devotion to these beautiful and gentle creatures.

Although my little 8 week old girl is now on Fox Valley (20/50 and blocks), since she had been on Esbilac (with the loose stools attendant upon the unsuitable new formulation) for two weeks, I have given her extra CaCO3 mashed into avocado, which she eagerly eats. I've bumped up the CaCO3 in her formula. She seems perkier! It seems as though those two weeks on Esbilac may have caused a deficit that needs filling. She was having a little trouble balancing when sitting up to eat solid foods with her hands.

Thank you all again and again.

[theletterv]

I was in contact with PetAg because of my concerns about a grainy substance that was never dissolving properly into the water, and this information has been passed onto me as well. It's very good to know about, but also really unfortunate for a lot of people who relied on Esbilac. I hope that they succeed in developing a finer version of this calcium so that Esbilac can once again be used for small baby mammals, including squirrels. Apparently, they recommend Goats Milk Esbilac for wildlife instead, but I feel like I have seen that this isn't recommended by rehabbers -- possibly something to do with the whey protein concentrate in normal Esbilac being more digestible than the whole goat milk powder used in Goats Milk Esbilac? Either way, this is just unfortunate to hear about.

[Diggie's Friend]

Mel 1959 wrote:

If you can get to the store and buy some goats milk, yogurt and heavy whipping cream and follow the goats milk recipe (3 parts goats milk, fresh is best, 1 part yogurt and 1 part heavy cream) it will at least provide your little one with some much needed nourishment. It can be any brand of yogurt without artificial sweeteners or flavors.

Though there are other brands, here is one source you may come across. At least this will give you an idea of what you are looking for.

I would assume it is the whole fat version that would be included. The nutritional data is noted on the label on the left side of the page.


This is the organic plain whole fat yogurt from Stonyfield:

https://www.stonyfield.com/products/yogurt/smooth-creamy/whole-milk-plain-32oz

[

[10xmama]

Sorry for the long post ... I do have questions at the bottom:

I decided to hop on this site last night b/c of new problem I’ve encountered with the squirrels I’m rehabbing. I have two squirrels that are @ 7wks old (both came to me with issues the board has helped me solve) and then last Friday I acquired another little one who was in bad shape (she’s 5-6wks). I raised several squirrels last year as well.

So, per the recommendations on here and elsewhere, I’ve used Esbilac. Never had a problem. Til this week. About the time my most recent squirrel arrived so did another can of Esbilac. I think I opened it middle of last week. The new squirrel was in bad shape with multiple scratches/wounds, probably from a cat. I started antibiotics and feeding with Esbilac. She was definitely scrawny and dehydrated as well.... so the feeding did perk her up but after a few days I became concerned b/c she wasn’t having BMs. I would stimulate but after 10-20 min still nothing. My first thought was it was the antibiotics so I cut them off yesterday, a day early. Last night I finally got two little tiny poo pellets out of her but this morning I only got one little one ... There should be way more than this! She seems to be eating happily and enough but isn’t as active as I would expect.

Because I was worried, I got on here last night and I saw the banner at the top — the Esbilac issue could definitely explain her issues. I have been feeding her well since I received her on Friday, so I don’t think it’s a hydration thing.

And on another note, I noticed when I cleaned my other squirrels cage this morning that there was hardly any poo in the cage! Like these two are drinking so much (15cc each a feeding) — there should be poo! So after their morning feed I observed them and noticed they seem a little odd after their feedings. They lay around the cage and seem a bit lethargic. They perk up and start moving around again after a while but I’m concerned now!

I got on and ordered the Fox Valley and it’s on its way. Is your recommendation to go get goats milk and make my own formula until the Fox Valley arrives? Would that be too hard on them to go from Esbilac to homemade to Fox Valley in such a short amount of time?

And if I need to do the homemade stuff while I wait, where do you get goats milk?

[Nancy in New York]

Check your can. (See below)
Hopefully these posts will answer some of your questions.
I have to run out so I just copied and pasted.


These observations do give us a way of determining the 'good' from the 'bad' Esbilac.
We can ask people if their can says 'made' or 'crafted' in the USA.
Cans that say 'made' should be safe to use, as they were from the old manufacturer.

Is this correct?
It will be interesting to see if members have problems with both.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3qbdXNb/0/9bd92d47/M/i-3qbdXNb-M.jpg........https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QqhfrkW/0/41aa05ae/M/i-QqhfrkW-M.jpg




GOAT’S MILK
The most common brand of goat’s milk you will find in the US is Meyenberg. They have fresh in quart cartons, dry powder in cans, and also evaporated liquid in cans. The dry and evaporated both need to be mixed with water before use, per the directions. All of the packaging is purple and white.

I actually look for stuff like this in stores even when I don’t need it, and every Trader Joe’s I have gone to has had the Meyenburg fresh goat’s milk in their dairy case. I have not seen either the dry or evaporated there. I have not looked at Whole Foods but I would be very surprised if they don’t have at least one, if not all three kinds.

I have two large grocery chains here – Shaws, which is owned by Albertsons now, and Hannaford, which so far has not been absorbed by a larger conglomerate. Neither have fresh, but I have found the dry goats milk at both stores, and have checked various stores in both chains and found it. Part of the secret is finding it in the store, and as I have found out, many of the employees have no idea they have it, so calling and asking is of little use. I usually find it in the baking aisle with the other canned milks like Eagle Brand and Carnation. I have, however also found it in the organics section with the coconut milk!

Walmart has the dry goats milk, and it is in the baking aisle. I have looked in three Walmarts – two here in the Northeast and also in Tucson and found it at all three. Walmarts being fairly available to most people may be the safest bet around.

HEAVY CREAM
The cream in the formula is there to provide needed fat, so purchasing the highest milkfat cream you can is the way to go. It is usually labeled “heavy cream” or “heavy whipping cream.” Regular whipping cream is lower in fat. It is found with the half and half and other coffee creamers in the dairy case. This is NOT the stuff in the can that you squirt in your mouth when nobody is looking – it is a liquid and is in tiny cartons.

YOGURT
The yogurt should also be the “full fat” variety, which is somewhat harder to find. Most yogurts are either no fat or low fat. The most reliable brand I have found that is everywhere is Stoneyfield. They make large containers of plain and vanilla full fat yogurt, as well as their Yobaby line. Don’t select any yogurts with artificial sweeteners.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?63338-Sourcing-Homemade-Goat-s-Milk-Formula-ingredients




TEMPORARY GOAT'S MILK FORMULA:


3 parts goat’s milk
1 part heavy whipping cream*
1 part vanilla yogurt

Formula will last 48 hours in refrigerator.

Goat’s Milk
This can be purchased at natural food stores such as Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods, and at most health food stores that sell groceries. It is a product for humans. Do not substitute commercial formula made for baby goats or other livestock sold at feed stores.

Goat’s milk is available fresh in a carton; evaporated in a can; and as a powdered milk. If you purchase either the evaporated or powdered versions, please blend them with water according to the package directions before using to make the formula.

Heavy Whipping Cream
This is found in small cartons in the grocery store near the coffee creamers and half and half. Regular heavy cream may be substituted if it is unavailable, but the heavy whipping cream has the highest fat content, and is preferred.

Yogurt
Yogurt has beneficial bacteria in it that soothes and settles digestion. Full fat yogurt is best, and a good choice that is very widely available is Stoneyfield Yobaby yogurt. However if it is unavailable, a low fat vanilla yogurt may be substituted. Avoid those that have artificial sweeteners in them. Vanilla and banana are both popular flavors, and the sweet taste of the yogurt helps to convince the baby to accept it.


https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?63342-HELP-NEW-BABY-ARRIVAL

[10xmama]

My current can says “crafted”. Dear me! So stop the Esbilac immediately and make my own right? I will head out in a bit to hunt down the goats milk. We have a Whole Foods not too far from us.

[Mel1959]

The goats milk formula is just a temporary formula. With the age your squirrels are they can be on Fox Valley 20/50. The little scrawny one could probably benefit from the GMF but it’s still only to be used temporarily. Order some FV 20/50 from Henrys or somewhere asap.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I see that you are in FL. You should be able to get goats milk at Publix. Not all stores have the fresh goats milk. Some do some don’t. I supposed they stock it based on demand in an area.

I would think all Publix would sell the powdered goat milk. I have found it there. As a last resort you can buy Meyerberg canned goat milk concentrate. It has to be diluted 1:1 with water before use.

Here is an idea. Instead of switching 3 times in a matter of day, why don’t you add the goat milk formula 50:50 with the Esbilac until the FoxValley arrives. This will help offset the lack of bioavailable calcium in the Esbilac. I would also supplement all of the babies with calcium carbonate. It is my opinion that all babies that have been on the problematic Esbilac for more than a couple weeks do have MBD. It might not be obvious by visible symptoms but without any doubt the skeleton is weakened.

I really have a fear that babies that have been raised on this Esbilac and are soon to be released are in serious jeopardy when released. I have released many squirrels. I have seen several fall from the trees with a great PLOP on release day. They shake it off and away they go. I’m not sure the month or so of solid food only (post weaning) can rebuild a fragile skeletal system without supplementation. Any falls for these babies would be a serious issue IMO. Others might disagree with my thoughts but I have great concerns.

Your babies are young so you have time to reverse this before release.

[10xmama]

Publix is right down the street. About to head out as they are due to eat by 12:30. Thanks so much!

[theletterv]

I can confirm, after going out and buying one of the older lots of Esbilac, with the "Made in the USA" badge as opposed to the "Crafted in the USA" one, that it does not have the grainy texture that my two other cans had. Something has definitely changed. I had been scratching my head about my grainy formula for over a month. I'm going to pass this along to PetAg as well; though they claim that Esbilac has "always" had dicalcium phosphate and that nothing has changed, this is clearly not true. Something has.

[Chirps]

I can confirm, after going out and buying one of the older lots of Esbilac, with the "Made in the USA" badge as opposed to the "Crafted in the USA" one, that it does not have the grainy texture that my two other cans had. Something has definitely changed. I had been scratching my head about my grainy formula for over a month. I'm going to pass this along to PetAg as well; though they claim that Esbilac has "always" had dicalcium phosphate and that nothing has changed, this is clearly not true. Something has.
I am sure you are right. They probably found a cheaper (and inferior) foreign source for the calcium. I wonder how it changed their profit margin, at the expense of all the dedicated rehabbers and suffering babies.

[Sir Rodney]

I am sure you are right. They probably found a cheaper (and inferior) foreign source for the calcium. I wonder how it changed their profit margin, at the expense of all the dedicated rehabbers and suffering babies.

It is painful to contemplate. You'd think they would have tested it out first. QC is alarmingly lacking. And really, calcium carbonate is so inexpensive, it boggles the mind how they came to that fateful (and fatal) decision.

[10xmama]

My three squirrels are doing much better. The older two were going downhill fast. Very lethargic and they had become aggressive towards me. I have had them and cared for them well before they opened their eyes so the aggressive behavior was concerning. They were not passing BMs much at all. I was concerned enough yesterday afternoon that I did the crushed tums treatment for MBD. That seemed to boost them a bit, even right away.

The younger one was also exhibiting the same symptoms but was more lethargic and also weak. Would not lay straight when I was feeding her but cocking her head sideways. Also seemed to be in pain when I pottied her.

24 hrs on temporary goat milk formula and they are much more energetic and passing BMs. I’m really shocked and saddened that PetAg would make such changes and not let the rehabbing community know ahead of time. What devastating effects could be avoided and could have been avoided by a simple warning on their part. Yes we used their product off label but they are aware of that and should have care/concern for the animals whose lives are affected by the change.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I’m glad to hear they are better. MBD is a painful condition so that would explain the aggression. After a day or two babies aren’t usually aggressive. Once they get over the initial fear and loss they usually respond well to the human that supplies the food. :tilt Aggression isn’t typical.

I think supplementing with a little calcium is a good idea. You can add a little to the formula. Don’t overdo it though. I think you will see them start responding even more when you get them on Fox Valley 20:50.

[10xmama]

Thx! The Fox Valley should arrive tomorrow. I am so thankful for this board. So helpful to squirrels and their caretakers!

[10xmama]

I’m a bit distressed. The younger of my three squirrels has developed a limp front right limb/paw. Nothing notable happened that I’m aware of. She was pretty lethargic and not having BMs until I recognized (thx to the banner on the front page) that there was an issue with the Esbilac. So we stopped the Esbilac earlier this week, did the homemade goat milk formula, and I tried to get some emergency Tums water into them... but then at the first feeding this morning I noticed her paw was just hanging. She wasn’t using it to hold onto the syringe... then after the feeding when I set her down she would not bear weight on it. It does look a bit swollen and slightly pink. What could have happened? Is this from MBD? Will her paw heal? I’ll post a pic next.

FWIW — the Fox Valley arrived mid morning. She has now had two feedings with that. She is eating and urinating fine. She is passing BMs now but not as much as I think there should be.

[redwuff]

Since she was on the bad Esbilac , can you get her seen by a vet. If her leg is broken, it will need to be splinted. So sorry to hear this. I would keep her in a small container so she can’t jump or climb.

[10xmama]

Don’t know if this conveys the problem:

311335

311336

[redwuff]

Is it her right upper arm?

[redwuff]

Can you feel anything in the arm that is troubling her?

[10xmama]

Yes it’s the right upper arm that seems swollen. When I feel it just seems swollen. She won’t bear weight on it or use the paw.

[redwuff]

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=311191&d=1567688998



This is Peteys X-ray. His right humorous area became swollen before he went to the vet. That is what that area looked like on X-ray.

[redwuff]

You are in the land of approachable vets. I hope you can get her seen. A break is easily a possibility.

[SammysMom]

Esbilac issue info:
I spoke with Chris Clark of squirrelsandmore.com about esbilac. She is a distributor for them and has been in contact with them over our problem. We are advising people to try to be patient. PetAg is working on new formula with the old finer ground dicalcium phosphate in it. That will take us back to the good old esbilac. If you purchased yours from chris, she will take it back. I have spoken to another rehabber who called Amazon and they told her they didn't need it back but gave her credit and she purchased fox valley 20/50. If you purchased it somewhere else, our suggestion is to simply return it there.
For feeding babies: Esbilac goat's milk formula and full fat yogurt with NO ARTIFICIAL SWEETENERS (3 parts formula to 1 part yogurt) up until 4 weeks and then switch over to Fox valley 20/50 with nothing extra added.
There is a lot of talk about other things needed in fv 20/50. There is nothing that needs adding.
Miracle Nipples are newly made and work wonderfully. I used one for way over 3000 feedings and it only gave out because of teeth! Chris has them now if you would like to order them.

[UDoWhat]

I am sorry but there are too many babies with shattered bones to hang in with Esbilac. First the 2008 disaster with the SSSD formula drying method causing our little ones to turn into skeletons with formula that seemed like cement in their tummies ... and then they died. All the while, Pet Ag denying anything had changed. Now 2019, our precious little babies have pain, shattered bones and are having to be euthanized by the hundreds. I will not give PetAg anymore business.

[Kasha]

I used Esbilac and added 1/3 part heavy cream for added calcium. Cans marked made in USA. Could the problem be with Esbilac made outside of USA sold on Amazon or other sources? Is adding heavy cream enough calcium? My squirrels wouldn't eat the fox 20/50. They are also starting solid foods rich in calcium so this isn't an issue for me now. Are the people reporting issues with formula not adding heavy cream or calcium supplement? Esbilac has worked very well for the rehabbers ive talked to. Could diarrhea be caused by another issue? Or perhaps some are sensitive to the heavy cream especially if too much is added? Hmm mm any additional information regarding this is appreciated. Really not a fan of the20/50 and wonder if Esbiliac is to blame for problems??? Thank you! ( I would suggest never buyer Esbilac on Amazon, cannot guarantee if authentic)

[CritterMom]

I used Esbilac and added 1/3 part heavy cream for added calcium. Cans marked made in USA. Could the problem be with Esbilac made outside of USA sold on Amazon or other sources? Is adding heavy cream enough calcium? My squirrels wouldn't eat the fox 20/50. They are also starting solid foods rich in calcium so this isn't an issue for me now. Are the people reporting issues with formula not adding heavy cream or calcium supplement? Esbilac has worked very well for the rehabbers ive talked to. Could diarrhea be caused by another issue? Or perhaps some are sensitive to the heavy cream especially if too much is added? Hmm mm any additional information regarding this is appreciated. Really not a fan of the20/50 and wonder if Esbiliac is to blame for problems??? Thank you! ( I would suggest never buyer Esbilac on Amazon, cannot guarantee if authentic)

While this problem is being seen earlier with cans from Amazon, it has nothing to do with their not being authentic. There was at the very least, a change to one of the ingredients - the calcium source - in Esbilac, as reported by the manufacturer when questioned. It appears that the "Made in the USA" cans were manufacturer BEFORE the change, and the "Crafted in the US" cans were manufactured AFTER the change. Your brick and mortar Petcos and Tractor Supplies keep this stuff in stock but they don't turn it over at even a fracture of the speed Amazon does, so Amazon sold all of their old esbilac long ago, while you can still go to your neighborhood pet shop and find the old stuff.

A product that is represented as a milk replacer really shouldn't need a bunch of add ins, and adding heavy cream to boost the taste and fat is one thing; having to add additional calcium is quite another.

I am surprised your guys didn't like the 20/50. Did you do a gradual transition or just switch formulas abruptly? You have to ease them into change.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I used Esbilac and added 1/3 part heavy cream for added calcium. Cans marked made in USA. Could the problem be with Esbilac made outside of USA sold on Amazon or other sources? Is adding heavy cream enough calcium? My squirrels wouldn't eat the fox 20/50. They are also starting solid foods rich in calcium so this isn't an issue for me now. Are the people reporting issues with formula not adding heavy cream or calcium supplement? Esbilac has worked very well for the rehabbers ive talked to. Could diarrhea be caused by another issue? Or perhaps some are sensitive to the heavy cream especially if too much is added? Hmm mm any additional information regarding this is appreciated. Really not a fan of the20/50 and wonder if Esbiliac is to blame for problems??? Thank you! ( I would suggest never buyer Esbilac on Amazon, cannot guarantee if authentic)

Hi Kasha. :Welcome to The Squirrel Board

In answer to your question IF Esbilac is responsible for this problem.

Let me state for the record... unequivocally PetAg’s puppy Esbilac is 100% responsible for this heartbreaking problem.
It isn’t their distributors, how it’s stored, Amazon vs Non-Amazon, how it’s shipped or counterfeit product. It is a defective product .... no question about it.
This wasn’t a malicious action on their part. IMO, it was a supply chain change of an ingredient from the suppliers of raw materials.

I’m very happy that the can you used was Made in the USA. Those cans, for the most part, appear to be from last years stock and have shown virtually no or very little problem. I myself, used Esbilac in the spring this year. I had no problems at all.

This problem is new. You can’t go by how it performed in the past. We ALL had great results IN THE PAST. I would highly recommend that you reconsider the Fox Valley 20:50 for your babies in the future. We don’t recommend the FV 32:40 due to problems with pinkies and young squirrels. We don’t know how or when this will be corrected by PetAg. Frankly, I don’t care when or IF they correct it because I will never use their products again. I had considered using their formula made for wildlife (Zoologic Milk Matrix) but I have changed my mind. I won’t be using any of their products. It will take a long time to get the images of broken and suffering babies out of my mind. :sadness

[HRT4SQRLS]

Esbilac issue info:
I spoke with Chris Clark of squirrelsandmore.com about esbilac. She is a distributor for them and has been in contact with them over our problem.

I guess while I’m on it I might as well let my opinion be known on this as well. :rotfl

I have never been more disappointed than I am with the statement issued by Chris’s Squirrel and More regarding this very REAL problem.
You can read it on the website and decide for yourself. Seriously!?

[Nancy in New York]

I guess while I’m on it I might as well let my opinion be known on this as well. :rotfl

I have never been more disappointed than I am with the statement issued by Chris’s Squirrel and More regarding this very REAL problem.
You can read it on the website and decide for yourself. Seriously!?


I was shocked and saddened to see a person in
her position take an "stance" for a product that the
rest of us knows, is crippling and killing babies. :shakehead

[stepnstone]

Anyone else find it curious that now all Esbilac puppy milk replacer by PetAg at CS&M is "out of stock?"

[Kasha]

PetAg Puppy milk replacer has not changed its ingredients. The labeling Made in the USA to Crafted in the USA was a regulatory issue only. Product is exactly the same. And made only in the USA.
Since the product has not changed and most people rehabbing squirrels are doing fine with it, the formula may not be the problem.
This product was intended for puppies not squirrels, so to say this product is defective is unfair without knowing facts. We Can only try to get close to mom's milk.
The Ebiliac Goats milk replacer is suggested for small mammals with a more sensitive system, being the calcium is finer and more easily digested, however does not have probiotics. We may have products we prefer over others. It's what we find works best.
It is possible these injuries are not related to the formula.
PetAg is sending me written information regarding this issue and I will post for you to see and make your own determination. I understand some opinions are being clouded here by the emotional nature, however can we please be kind and help each other? We are all here for the same reason.

[Spanky]

PetAg Puppy milk replacer has not changed its ingredients. The labeling Made in the USA to Crafted in the USA was a regulatory issue only. Product is exactly the same. And made only in the USA.
Since the product has not changed and most people rehabbing squirrels are doing fine with it, the formula may not be the problem.
This product was intended for puppies not squirrels, so to say this product is defective is unfair without knowing facts. We Can only try to get close to mom's milk.
The Ebiliac Goats milk replacer is suggested for small mammals with a more sensitive system, being the calcium is finer and more easily digested, however does not have probiotics. We may have products we prefer over others. It's what we find works best.
It is possible these injuries are not related to the formula.
PetAg is sending me written information regarding this issue and I will post for you to see and make your own determination. I understand some opinions are being clouded here by the emotional nature, however can we please be kind and help each other? We are all here for the same reason.

It would be great if you would post any info they share with you for comparison as to what we have already received from PetAg.

While the ingredients list or amounts may not have changed, the dicalcium phosphate itself has changed... maybe a different supplier, a different "grade"... what ever but PetAg themselves is the source of the information we base the statements about the “ingredient particles” of the calcium may be too large to be properly digested by small mammals... PetAg specifically mentioned squirrels and opossums.

The Crafted / Made in USA is anecdotal, but we are encouraging everyone to switch from Esbilac to be safe... we are using the "Crafted" versus "Made" to help folks understand how great of risk their baby squirrel may have. Anecdotally, the "Crafted" cans are the ones almost everyone.. if not everyone... that has come to TSB with this problem were using. We've seen no issues with those using the "Made in the USA" version... this part may be shaded by emotions, but in the end everyone should stop feeding Esbilac to squirrels. Even PetAg said as much.

[Kasha]

I will post as soon as I receive the information coming directly from PetAg. Can you do the Same? Us translating what we hear is subjective and may be taken out of context. Let's put it in their writings from here on so we deal with facts.
Who at PetAg said not to use this product? I spoke with them yesterday and all they can say is their product has NOT changed at all and these are rumors going around that are not true, they are getting many calls because of these rumors and being told what I am saying (who told you that the product has changed?) but if you feel its to blame, by all means stop using it.
There are other possibilities that should be considered, before everyone should blame it on a product that has worked well in the past and has not changed.
Many of us are using this product and having 100% healthy squirrels raised from sickly Neonates. I only joined this forum because the rumors had me worried too! I don't just believe what someone says however, I research. And will continue to do so until I have all the facts.To say "unequivocally" this product is causing your heartbreaking baby problems is simply not true at this point. It is your opinion.
I received a private message from "Spanky" Yesterday. So to Spanky, I am unable to open that message, please post your message here. I prefer 100% transparency anyways in an open forum .

[Mel1959]

I will post as soon as I receive the information coming directly from PetAg. Can you do the Same? Us translating what we hear is subjective and may be taken out of context. Let's put it in their writings from here on so we deal with facts.
Who at PetAg said not to use this product? I spoke with them yesterday and all they can say is their product has NOT changed at all and these are rumors going around that are not true, they are getting many calls because of these rumors and being told what I am saying (who told you that the product has changed?) but if you feel its to blame, by all means stop using it.
There are other possibilities that should be considered, before everyone should blame it on a product that has worked well in the past and has not changed.
Many of us are using this product and having 100% healthy squirrels raised from sickly Neonates. I only joined this forum because the rumors had me worried too! I don't just believe what someone says however, I research. And will continue to do so until I have all the facts.To say "unequivocally" this product is causing your heartbreaking baby problems is simply not true at this point. It is your opinion.
I received a private message from "Spanky" Yesterday. So to Spanky, I am unable to open that message, please post your message here. I prefer 100% transparency anyways in an open forum .

The information that several of us at TSB received came directly from Samantha at PetAg. It is not a rumor. As stated, they may not have changed their formula but that’s not to say a distributor or supplier for their dicalcium phosphate didn’t change its source. Dicalcium phosphate comes in many different grades at a very different cost associated with each. The lesser the grade the coarser the particle and the more impurities allowed.

I noticed a change in the formula immediately. I had two older cans that had been stored in the freezer. I used them with no problems. The formula was smooth and mixed well. When those cans were gone I purchased another can from Amazon. I could immediately tell a difference in mixing and a grainy, oily residue was left inside and at the bottom of my mixing container, in spite of repeatedly whisking and shaking with a mixing ball. This was not my imagination. I’m not a newbie. My old cans said “Made in the USA” the new can said “Crafted in the USA”.

I reached out to PetAg and spoke to Samantha. She took the lot number of my new can so they could investigate. After doing so, PetAg made a statement about the dicalcium phosphate. She also sent me a replacement can of Esbilac (crafted in the USA) and a can of Goats Milk Esbilac (crafted in the USA). The Esbilac mixed up grainy, but the Goats Milk Esbilac mixed smooth. This led me to believe that the GM Esbilac might be ok to use. But not wanting to take a chance with the well being of baby squirrels, I won’t be using it.

My belief about Esbilac and the current problem is not based on emotion, as you suggest. I do not have sickly animals as a result of using the new Esbilac. My belief is based on fact.

I look forward to reading the response you receive from PetAg.

[Milo's Mom]

311554

Statement coming straight from PetAg to masses of people on their letterhead.

[Kasha]

I just got off the phone with Samantha Hays. She states she did not Say to stop using Esbilac. However you should stop using it if you feel its a problem of course.
I received email info from PetAg. As stated the goats formula does have a finer partical form for the calcium than the puppy Formula. Works fine for the intended. Small wildlife May have issues since it was not designed for wildlife.
They are going to add the finer product to the puppy Formula to aid the wildlife community however which is a wonderful thing.
Is there an.email address I can forward this too? Not sure this attachment will go through.
Look forward to seeing your information from PetAg as well.

[Milo's Mom]

311556

Response to FAQ's

[Kasha]

Thank you Milo's Mom for a direct correspondence from PetAg. I have that as well as 2 others that may be helpful.

[Kasha]

I see Milo's Mom did send PDF of the info I too received.
Thank you!

[Spanky]

Who at PetAg said not to use this product?
I spoke with them yesterday and all they can say is their product has NOT changed at all and these are rumors going around that are not true, they are getting many calls because of these rumors and being told what I am saying (who told you that the product has changed?) but if you feel its to blame, by all means stop using it.
There are other possibilities that should be considered, before everyone should blame it on a product that has worked well in the past and has not changed.
Many of us are using this product and having 100% healthy squirrels raised from sickly Neonates. I only joined this forum because the rumors had me worried too! I don't just believe what someone says however, I research. And will continue to do so until I have all the facts.To say "unequivocally" this product is causing your heartbreaking baby problems is simply not true at this point. It is your opinion.
I received a private message from "Spanky" Yesterday. So to Spanky, I am unable to open that message, please post your message here. I prefer 100% transparency anyways in an open forum .

I am "Spanky" and it was me that sent you the same information that Milo's Mom posted. It is very clear to many of us that the commonality of the heartbreaking baby problems is, in fact, the Esbilac formula. I won't risk babies by using the PetAg product so I will not recommend it to others. I personally did not experience this problem with my babies, but I have 8 (and counting) that have come under my care that have been devastated. It is heartbreaking. Many have come from rehabbers with years and years of experience that could not figure out what was wrong... they did not have the advantage of forums like TSB. I have seen the turn-around up close and it is personal for me. The purpose of this board is to share our collective experiences and that is what we have done.

We have seen dozens and dozens of examples of babies doign an almost immediate turn-around when taken off Esbilac. Unfortunately many will have unfortunately have permanent deficits.

This is prolific problem this fall season. Not something we have seen before now. Our decision to stop recommending basically what was the only long-proven "off-the-shelf" formula available to those caring for squirrels was not done lightly. In fact, we probably delayed longer than we should have before taking a position that Esbilac is causing problems.

Here is a very compelling example of what is happening if you have not already seen this thread:
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?63142-3-week-old-Help-Needed-back-leg-issues&p=1299282#post1299282

[Spanky]

Thank you Milo's Mom for a direct correspondence from PetAg. I have that as well as 2 others that may be helpful.

If you e-mail to (removed e-mail address) and I will post them here in this thread.

[Spanky]

I just got off the phone with Samantha Hays. She states she did not Say to stop using Esbilac. However you should stop using it if you feel its a problem of course.

The letter (PDF) Milo's Mom posted clear states the form of dicalcium phosphate has changed from the past and "appears" to be more difficult for small mammals to absorb (I myself have no doubts). The letter goes on to recommend Esbilac Goat's Milk during PetAg's transition / change to restoring a more finely milled form of calcium to Esbilac. Maybe it is me but I read that as stop using the Esbilac.

PetAg representatives want to do nothing to impact their sales... they are, after all, representing PetAg.

[kcassidy]

I guess while I’m on it I might as well let my opinion be known on this as well. :rotfl

I have never been more disappointed than I am with the statement issued by Chris’s Squirrel and More regarding this very REAL problem.
You can read it on the website and decide for yourself. Seriously!?

I was hurt, angry and stunned by her website post/statement, further maddened by the email blast and now Esbilac is sending people to her site from their company website. WTF.

I sent Chris an email letting her know how upset I was and her response back was beyond mind boggling. I shared it with a few others and they were just as flabbergasted as I was by her response. It's a bummer that she is the only game in town when it comes to Miracle Nipples and syringes, I will not buy another thing from her website ever again and will still buy her Miracle supplies but I'll get them from Amazon and/or Henry's.

Shame on her for putting herself first and the squirrels 2nd. I also would love to know why she has Esbilac listed as Out of Stock, yet she states it is perfectly fine to use.

[kcassidy]

I will post as soon as I receive the information coming directly from PetAg. Can you do the Same? Us translating what we hear is subjective and may be taken out of context. Let's put it in their writings from here on so we deal with facts.
Who at PetAg said not to use this product? I spoke with them yesterday and all they can say is their product has NOT changed at all and these are rumors going around that are not true, they are getting many calls because of these rumors and being told what I am saying (who told you that the product has changed?) but if you feel its to blame, by all means stop using it.
There are other possibilities that should be considered, before everyone should blame it on a product that has worked well in the past and has not changed.
Many of us are using this product and having 100% healthy squirrels raised from sickly Neonates. I only joined this forum because the rumors had me worried too! I don't just believe what someone says however, I research. And will continue to do so until I have all the facts.To say "unequivocally" this product is causing your heartbreaking baby problems is simply not true at this point. It is your opinion.
I received a private message from "Spanky" Yesterday. So to Spanky, I am unable to open that message, please post your message here. I prefer 100% transparency anyways in an open forum .

You have made six posts to the group and this is your definitive findings on the Esbilac disaster? May I ask how many squirrels you've raised 100% healthy from Esbilac? When was your Esbilac purchased? Do you have the Lot #'s? Would you be willing to submit samples of your formula to the Casey's who are doing scientific testing on samples. Everyone has been sending in their samples that killed our squirrels so it would be great to get samples of "good" Esbilac.

Rumors - very insulting. I have had numerous squirrels die and also get very sick on this years Esbilac. As soon as I stopped using Esbilac, those that were still alive immediately started showing improvements. I have pictures, documentation on all of it. The broken limbs, the failure to thrive, blackened bellies. I also have lots of xrays of squirrel skeletons that look like a pile of broken twigs, failure to thrive, then thriving after the switch from more than 50 people. This isn't some rumor. We aren't out to "get" PetAg. We are worried about our squirrels, worried about others squirrels and worried for babies we will get in the Spring.

I do not appreciate being called a rumor spreader or an internet fear mongerer as that is NOT what I am and have never been. I like science, I like research and I feel getting to the bottom of an issue like this requires all that. It's why I'm throwing my lot in with the Casey's. They know nutrition and they are sending everything to labs for testing.

Why this issue affects some squirrels and not others is something I'm hoping they can explain. I had squirrels who died as well as squirrels who looked great all eating the same mix of formula. I mixed it correctly, with the water at the correct temperature. I know my peers did the same thing, it isn't that this year we effed up preparing formula unlike all the previous years. I will not feed Esbilac again unless they come forward and explain what was wrong and what they did to fix it. I don't think they did it on purpose, but they will do whatever they have to to protect their bottom line.

[Mel1959]

I was hurt, angry and stunned by her website post/statement, further maddened by the email blast and now Esbilac is sending people to her site from their company website. WTF.

I sent Chris an email letting her know how upset I was and her response back was beyond mind boggling. I shared it with a few others and they were just as flabbergasted as I was by her response. It's a bummer that she is the only game in town when it comes to Miracle Nipples and syringes, I will not buy another thing from her website ever again and will still buy her Miracle supplies but I'll get them from Amazon and/or Henry's.

Shame on her for putting herself first and the squirrels 2nd. I also would love to know why she has Esbilac listed as Out of Stock, yet she states it is perfectly fine to use.

Kim, please read the last line of the PDF letter that PetAg sent to multiple people, but Milo’s Mom posted on this thread. That line explains the questions you post about Chris’s stance on the Esbilac issue....PARTNERS, seriously? No further explanation needed.

My guess is Kasha is in Chris’s back pocket, which also requires no further explanation. :frustratedx

I think we all know that by listing Esbilac “out of stock” allows her to save face and not admit there’s a problem. Really? We’re smarter than that!

[Milo's Mom]

I'm not defending Chris at all, not even a little, but has anyone thought that maybe she has contractual obligations and we need to read between the lines? Her words are worthless but her action of out of stock Esbilac speaks volumes.

EDIT...or did PetAg pull it cause they didnt know what else to do because they already knew?

[Mel1959]

I'm not defending Chris at all, not even a little, but has anyone thought that maybe she has contractual obligations and we need to read between the lines? Her words are worthless but her action of out of stock Esbilac speaks volumes.

EDIT...or did PetAg pull it cause they didnt know what else to do because they already knew?

Who knows!?

[kcassidy]

Kim, please read the last line of the PDF letter that PetAg sent to multiple people, but Milo’s Mom posted on this thread. That line explains the questions you post about Chris’s stance on the Esbilac issue....PARTNERS, seriously? No further explanation needed.

My guess is Kasha is in Chris’s back pocket, which also requires no further explanation. :frustratedx

I think we all know that by listing Esbilac “out of stock” allows her to save face and not admit there’s a problem. Really? We’re smarter than that!

Hey Mel, I didn't need to read MM's response, I saw the letter earlier today, actually Gayle read it to me this morning while I was driving :D At first I started to bluster but in reality, how many shops are out there that sell wildlife supplies in the quantites that CSM does. I'm assuming she is their biggest wildlife distributor so sending people to her makes sense as far as they are concerned.

[kcassidy]

I'm not defending Chris at all, not even a little, but has anyone thought that maybe she has contractual obligations and we need to read between the lines? Her words are worthless but her action of out of stock Esbilac speaks volumes.

EDIT...or did PetAg pull it cause they didnt know what else to do because they already knew?

No I do not believe she was forced to write that. From communications with Chris she never said something of that nature, therefore I don't believe it to be the case. What I do believe based on those same communications that she truly believes Esbilac is not the issue here. She has said it point blank to more than myself. She comes out and says it in her email and website statement.

I have always respected Chris and thought she knew her squirrels, I guess she is still good at rehabbing them, but I no longer trust her at all and as I said in another post, I'm not buying from her website ever again, unless she retracts her statements.

[Javarat]

Person with MBD Opossum Group started a spreadsheet with Esbilac batch numbers and symptoms.
Overall, she thinks we are looking at both hypocalcemia (low calcium levels) AND hyperphosphatemia (elevated phosphates) with the new Esbilac.
The hypocalcemia can lead to MBD. The hyperphosphatemia can cause diarrhea, liver damage, and renal failure. End result is abdominal fluid buildup, which looks like bloating, but is actually terminal organ failure. (Like the three I lost).

[redwuff]

Person with MBD Opossum Group started a spreadsheet with Esbilac batch numbers and symptoms.
Overall, she thinks we are looking at both hypocalcemia (low calcium levels) AND hyperphosphatemia (elevated phosphates) with the new Esbilac.
The hypocalcemia can lead to MBD. The hyperphosphatemia can cause diarrhea, liver damage, and renal failure. End result is abdominal fluid buildup, which looks like bloating, but is actually terminal organ failure. (Like the three I lost).

Ugh

[Chirps]

No I do not believe she was forced to write that. From communications with Chris she never said something of that nature, therefore I don't believe it to be the case. What I do believe based on those same communications that she truly believes Esbilac is not the issue here. She has said it point blank to more than myself. She comes out and says it in her email and website statement.

I have always respected Chris and thought she knew her squirrels, I guess she is still good at rehabbing them, but I no longer trust her at all and as I said in another post, I'm not buying from her website ever again, unless she retracts her statements.
After reading this thread I checked out Chris's site out of curiosity.

http://squirrelsandmore.com/pages/esbilac-by-petag-2019-concerns

Is this the statement you are referring to, or is this a more recent one? I guess my question is, does this seem like a retraction to you or is this the statement you have issues with?

She signs it "Wildlife rehabilitator first, business owner second" almost as if she is addressing specific people.

[Kasha]

What is wrong with you people? We come to this site for help and where we think others are going through the Same problems ...not to be bullied or accused of some devious plot.
Think of how many people get out of this site as soon as they log on...I'm done with it too.
I would LOVE to be involved in a study if it is to help the animals. I do not lower myself to insult others because they have opinions that differ from my own. You want to blame a product with out having FACTS. Go ahead. That does not help these squirrels or any other animals. I find the first people to bully are the problem. Quick to Blame anything and anyone instead of looking inward.
Complain to each other....that will solve the issue.
Ridiculous

[kcassidy]

After reading this thread I checked out Chris's site out of curiosity.

http://squirrelsandmore.com/pages/esbilac-by-petag-2019-concerns

Is this the statement you are referring to, or is this a more recent one? I guess my question is, does this seem like a retraction to you or is this the statement you have issues with?

She signs it "Wildlife rehabilitator first, business owner second" almost as if she is addressing specific people.

Yes this is what I'm talking about. It is that she is saying Esbilac isn't the problem people are that is bothering many of us. As well as telling people to keep using Esbilac :( :( I don't see anything about retracting, what are you referring to?

[kcassidy]

Bye bye Chris, ahem Kasha :D

I know she is gone but I'm so effing sick of people shouting bullying when I disagree with them or question their shoddy logic. That is what I find ridiculous!

[Diggie's Friend]

Member waiting for advise on what to do for baby fed baby Esbilac that stopped eating 10 days ago.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?63536-Squirrel-stopped-eating-10-hours-ago&p=1301474#post1301474

[Chirps]

Yes this is what I'm talking about. It is that she is saying Esbilac isn't the problem people are that is bothering many of us. As well as telling people to keep using Esbilac :( :( I don't see anything about retracting, what are you referring to?
I'm not referring to anything, because I don't know if what she has up there now is her original statement or if she had tweaked it to try to appease? get on the same side of? people she has alienated. She does at least admit that PetAg had finally come to the same conclusion the sharp-eyed, diligent people here had already reached about the calcium.

I guess it doesn't matter since she's gone, but I think Kasha really sold the people here short. I have been repeatedly amazed in thread after thread seeing how people get together and compare data and information and EXPERIENCES to arrive at conclusions such as this Esbilac one. She said, "You want to blame a product without having FACTS." :thinking But you all DO have facts, finally confirmed by none other than PetAg.

[Javarat]

What is wrong with you people? We come to this site for help and where we think others are going through the Same problems ...not to be bullied or accused of some devious plot.
Think of how many people get out of this site as soon as they log on...I'm done with it too.
I would LOVE to be involved in a study if it is to help the animals. I do not lower myself to insult others because they have opinions that differ from my own. You want to blame a product with out having FACTS. Go ahead. That does not help these squirrels or any other animals. I find the first people to bully are the problem. Quick to Blame anything and anyone instead of looking inward.
Complain to each other....that will solve the issue.
RidiculousThis was a very odd poster.
She made an account, and then defended (bad) 'crafted in the USA' cans of Esbilac while she added cream for calcium to (good) 'Made in the USA' cans, like she did not actually understand the problem.
And then she got mad and deleted her account because people where spreading 'unsubstantiated rumors without FACTS'.. while she was telling people to "never buy Esbilac from Amazon because they may be fake".

[Spanky]

Update 10/02/2019
As a result of the Esbilac fiasco the following is a "permanent" formula for use for babies up to 4 weeks old.

hGMF+ (Homemade Goat's Milk Formula Plus (Not temporary, for use in babies up to 4 weeks)):


3 parts Goat's Milk

3 parts plain yogurt

2 parts heavy cream
1 Egg Yolk for per cup of formula


To make 1 Cup of formula:


6 Tablespoons of Goat's Milk

6 Tablespoons of yogurt
4 Tablespoons of heavy cream

1 Egg Yolk for per cup of formula



To make 1/2 Cup of formula:



3 Tablespoons of Goat's Milk

3 Tablespoons of yogurt

2 Tablespoons of heavy cream

1/2 Egg Yolk for per cup of formula (The unused 1/2 egg yolk can be saved in the fridge (covered) for the next day's batch)



We consider this to be super-perishable, so 24 hours in the fridge max.

(I also updated the initial post of this thread, but considering most of us do not re-read the initial post of a thread we are following, I am posting it here also so everyone (hopefully) will see this update.)

[BCChins]

Question please so is that liquid goats milk? If you buy th powdered do we just mix it to the directions on the can/bag first then add the other ingredients?

Can this be frozen after mixing?

Thank YOu in advance.

[CritterMom]

So I have done some reading.

Meyenburg has the fresh goats milk, in a carton; and they also have condensed, which is liquid in a can, and powdered dry milk, also in a can.

According to the Meyenburg site, the liquid condensed has had half of the water in it reduced, so you would reconstitute it 1:1 - if you needed 3 Tablespoons of goats milk, you would mix 1.5 Tbsp of the evaporated liquid with 1.5 Tbsp of water.

The powdered comes in 12oz cans which the site says makes 3 quarts (or 96 ounces). That means that you mix EIGHT parts of water to ONE part of the milk powder to make whole goats milk.

Everyone just needs to make sure to turn these forms of the product into milk FIRST, then proceed with the recipe.

[Spanky]

Question please so is that liquid goats milk? If you buy the powdered do we just mix it to the directions on the can/bag first then add the other ingredients?

Yes, the recipe directions are for liquid goat's milk. If you use powdered Goat's Milk, follow the directions for mixing up the powdered Goat's Milk separately then use that prepared liquid milk in the recipe provided.

Meyenberg (the most popular by far I am sure) directions are 8 parts water to 1 part powder. There is a 2 tablespoon scoop in the can and the directions read to use a loose (not packed) scoop of powder... just FYI. Once mixed, the plain Goat's Milk should be stored in the fridge and discarded after 5 days. Also worth noting, Meyenburg says once the can is opened it the powder remains good only for 2 months stored in a dry cool place.

Thanks for asking, I will work on incorporating the info on powdered Goat's Milk into the post as I am certain the powdered Goat's Milk will be the only option for many finders.


Can this be frozen after mixing?

Something we are unsure about so we cannot recommend freezing at this time though we also understand how much less work having this option might be. As of now, the babies on the new hGMF+ are all doing very well but the recipe (understandably) is subject to change over time as more experience is gained.

[CritterMom]

We need to ask someone who is using this right now if they could pour some in a container, cover it, freeze it, thaw it and tell us what happens. I am not worried about it affecting freshness or anything like that but I think it might separate and not mix back together well...

My local Walmart has the two alternative versions and I am going to check real life next time I am there to make sure these directions are okay. I am pretty confident with what the site said though - they just changed all of their label art and logo and stuff and that is what is up on the site, so I think the info on those labels is accurate (have run into old "art" on sites before).

So they change their labels and suddenly they experience this surge in sales...they are going to think that their marketing people are geniuses and it will all be squirrel people...

[theletterv]

On the subject of the calcium issue with new lots of Esbilac, I wanted to state my unhappiness with PetAg claiming that the formula is still suitable for puppies. The dicalcium phosphate being coarsely ground means that it sinks to the bottom of formula and cannot be properly constituted. The calcium particles are much heavier than the formula and are almost invariably left behind after mixing or feeding. No matter how vigorously you mix the formula, no matter how hot you make the water, the dicalcium phosphate will not blend into the formula. I can't see how this can be good for puppies, even if they may be large enough to digest the calcium particles if they actually did consume them in the first place. I also think it's a bit hard to verify that very small neonatal puppies would be able to absorb the calcium properly either, and I would be suspicious of that. Either way, it's likely that the large, grainy particles of calcium will just sink to the bottom of the formula and never be consumed in the first place, which sounds pretty dangerous to me.

[HRT4SQRLS]

On the subject of the calcium issue with new lots of Esbilac, I wanted to state my unhappiness with PetAg claiming that the formula is still suitable for puppies. The dicalcium phosphate being coarsely ground means that it sinks to the bottom of formula and cannot be properly constituted. The calcium particles are much heavier than the formula and are almost invariably left behind after mixing or feeding. No matter how vigorously you mix the formula, no matter how hot you make the water, the dicalcium phosphate will not blend into the formula. I can't see how this can be good for puppies, even if they may be large enough to digest the calcium particles if they actually did consume them in the first place. I also think it's a bit hard to verify that very small neonatal puppies would be able to absorb the calcium properly either, and I would be suspicious of that. Either way, it's likely that the large, grainy particles of calcium will just sink to the bottom of the formula and never be consumed in the first place, which sounds pretty dangerous to me.

Precisely... I couldn’t agree more. I believe our baby squirrels are the ‘canaries in the coal mine’ for puppies. Due to their tiny size they crashed first but eventually you will see this issue in puppies. It will take longer but, what’s bad for squirrels is bad for puppies. I have no doubt in my mind.

Of course if PetAg acknowledged it was harmful to puppies they would have to recall it, so, that’s not going to happen.

[etwr]

Question please so is that liquid goats milk? If you buy th powdered do we just mix it to the directions on the can/bag first then add the other ingredients?

Can this be frozen after mixing?

Thank YOu in advance.


I mainly rehab fawns..that is what we specialize in. Squirrels are becoming a quick second now.

I use Meyenberg powder until they transition over to the replacer mixture I use. I have spoken to Meyenberg many times over the years.

I have been told, yes, Meyenberg can be frozen.

I have never had to freeze it for more than a week or so, but if I recall, they say safe to freeze for 6 months.

You can call Meyenberg. They have been very helpful to me over the years.

[Chirps]

I mainly rehab fawns..that is what we specialize in. Squirrels are becoming a quick second now.

I use Meyenberg powder until they transition over to the replacer mixture I use. I have spoken to Meyenberg many times over the years.

I have been told, yes, Meyenberg can be frozen.

I have never had to freeze it for more than a week or so, but if I recall, they say safe to freeze for 6 months.

You can call Meyenberg. They have been very helpful to me over the years.
Thanks for that info on Meyenberg. Good to know.

The way I am reading BCChins's and others' posts the concern seems to be in attempting to freeze the formula after it is mixed. (Correct me if you were only asking about the goat's milk.) I would expect formula cannot be frozen based on my mother's attempts to freeze chicken eggs. Yogurt and heavy cream get lumpy after thawing. Maybe they can be stirred smooth again, but I suspect the egg yolk is going to make little chewy bits that won't dissolve.

[etwr]

Thanks for that info on Meyenberg. Good to know.

The way I am reading BCChins's and others' posts the concern seems to be in attempting to freeze the formula after it is mixed. (Correct me if you were only asking about the goat's milk.) I would expect formula cannot be frozen based on my mother's attempts to freeze chicken eggs. Yogurt and heavy cream get lumpy after thawing. Maybe they can be stirred smooth again, but I suspect the egg yolk is going to make little chewy bits that won't dissolve.


As far as freezing after mixed with the yogurt, HWC and egg yolk, I have no clue.

Not sure if they were asking full mixture or just the goat milk after mixing.

Goat milk powder, I have done it tons of times and it thaws out perfectly.

[Rice Vinegar]

Is there still a problem with the esbilac? Got a little flyer and I don't want to get any if there is still an issue with it.

[CritterMom]

Is there still a problem with the esbilac? Got a little flyer and I don't want to get any if there is still an issue with it.

Yes there is. Since they are not pulling any of the bad stock from the shelves and have not even geared up to start producing something that doesn't kill yet, I would say we will be dealing with this for years because people who don't know about it will keep buying it. I would do the new goats milk formula with the egg (that part is very important for your flyer - they need the protein). When he is a little older you should be able to transition him to the Fox Valley 20/50. If you have any specific questions, start your own thread for your baby. OK, basically we want pictures of him/her!

[Sassysaffy]

I just wanted to verify before I use the temporary goat milk formula. I read a thread from 2015 I think that says never give a squirrel cows milk. I’m just concerned because heavy whipping cream and yogurt or made from cows milk and I don’t want to hurt my baby. I know you can find goat milk yogurt, but I’ve never seen heavy whipping cream that wasn’t from a cow. Anyone have any suggestions

[HRT4SQRLS]

What you read is correct. We never use cows milk for baby squirrels. It is extremely nutrient deficient. The temporary goat milk recipe has been used for many years as a temporary formula. It works great for what it is intended for. It is a TEMPORARY formula that can be used until proper formula can be ordered. For many years we recommended Esbilac. It could be purchased locally so a temporary formula wasn’t needed. Last fall, Esbilac completely failed baby wildlife and resulted in the death of many. They ‘supposedly’ corrected the problem but most will never forgive them for this disaster. They wouldn’t even recall the defective crap so it is still on the shelves and killing babies even this year.

The temporary goat milk recipe does have heavy cream that comes from cows and I assume most yogurt does as well. Cow milk isn’t poison to baby squirrels, it is extremely nutritionally deficient. To be honest with you, goat milk is also nutritionally deficient but it is a highly digestive milk that can be used until formula arrives.

Are you aware that there is a ‘new’ goat milk temporary recipe. It has different proportions of the ingredients and a 1/2 egg yoke. It is slightly more nutritious that the original recipe.

Have you ordered your permanent formula yet? Which one? How old is your baby?

EDIT: Actually the recipe at the beginning of this thread IS the new temporary recipe. :)

[Sassysaffy]

I have a baby round tailed ground squirrel. Not exactly sure how old she is, but she just opened her eyes On Wednesday. I ordered the Fox Valley Day One was 20/50 formula as it was a recurring suggestion in previous posts. It should be here in 2-3 days. I’ve only given her the Esbilac since I found her last Sunday. it was the only suggested food online until I found this board. I take it I should slowly transition her to the goat milk formula?

[Sassysaffy]

I did hydrate her with pedialight the first day and then transitioned to food. She was slightly dehydrated when I found her.

[Mel1959]

Sorry you didn’t get a response. Yes, transition her to the homemade goat milk formula until your Fox Valley arrives. How’s she doing?

[Jokev999]

Hi, I ordered Esbilac after seeing it recommended everywhere but now I've come across this forum and scared of using it now. Do I or dont I?

The one I've ordered has the blue banner saying it has prebiotics in it. Does that mean it's ok to use?

[SammysMom]

What is the expiration date?
As long as it is after 10/21 it's ok. I would suggest mixing 1/4 part heavy cream to the mixture you make of 1 part powder and 2 parts very hot water that you have let sit in ftidge for 8 hours.

Hi, I ordered Esbilac after seeing it recommended everywhere but now I've come across this forum and scared of using it now. Do I or dont I?

The one I've ordered has the blue banner saying it has prebiotics in it. Does that mean it's ok to use?

[Jokev999]

What is the expiration date?
As long as it is after 10/21 it's ok. I would suggest mixing 1/4 part heavy cream to the mixture you make of 1 part powder and 2 parts very hot water that you have let sit in ftidge for 8 hours [/QUOTE]

Ok lovely, its arriving today so I'll check. When you say heavy cream do you just mean double cream? I'm in UK? Or is it a special cream I need to find?

Thanks for your help.

[SammysMom]

Cream you would use for making whipped cream.
When I say 1/4 part of cream, I mean 1/4 of the amount of powder you use. Not 1/4 of the total amount. So if you use 1 teaspoon powder to 2 teaspoons water, you would add 1/4 teaspoon of cream.




Ok lovely, its arriving today so I'll check. When you say heavy cream do you just mean double cream? I'm in UK? Or is it a special cream I need to find?

Thanks for your help.[/QUOTE]

[CritterMom]

Ok lovely, its arriving today so I'll check. When you say heavy cream do you just mean double cream? I'm in UK? Or is it a special cream I need to find?

Thanks for your help.[/QUOTE]

Double cream has WAY more fat in it than heavy whipping cream. Heavy cream is used to make whipped cream to top deserts - it is also used in coffee if you want it really decadent. In the US it is sold in the same case as the milk and creamers, in tiny milk cartons.

[Jokev999]

Thank you.

The formula arrived and it had the blue banner but it didn't say anything in the banner so I've gone with the home formula instead. I bought whipping cream as the contents looked the most similar to heavy cream.

They've enjoyed it today so I'll continue with this until 4 weeks and the Fox formula arrives.

Thanks all

[SammysMom]

What is the expiration date on the bottom of the can?

[Jokev999]

What is the expiration date on the bottom of the can?

October 2021. I assume that means it's no good?

[Nancy in New York]

October 2021. I assume that means it's no good?

Anything from October 2021 on is the good one.


What is the expiration date?
As long as it is after 10/21 it's ok. I would suggest mixing 1/4 part heavy cream to the mixture you make of 1 part powder and 2 parts very hot water that you have let sit in ftidge for 8 hours.




If you have a can of Esbilac powder with an expiration date of 10/2021 you can USE IT. The manufacturer corrected the issue that caused such horrible problems last year (see banner above) and any can with that expiration date or LATER is fine. I used it for mine this past spring and so did other rehabbers I know, but I did add Ultra Boost to the formula. Rats' digestion is somewhat different from squirrels' (less delicate, and they are omnivorous and nocturnal), so IMHO you can use the Esbilac.

[Jokev999]

Anything from October 2021 on is the good one.





Would you recommend the Esbilac over the home made formula?

[island rehabber]

Personally I would, so long as you add either heavy whipping cream or Fox Valley Ultra Boost to the Esbilac. A number of rehabbers have reported, unfortunately, that the homemade formula caused diarrhea :shakehead

[SammysMom]

Yes, I agree with IR and would go with Esbilac with cream added.

Would you recommend the Esbilac over the home made formula?

[Jokev999]

Ok thank you. So just want to check I've got this right - sorry for all the questions but best to be safe than sorry. Boil water, let it sit in the fridge for at least 8 hours and then use 2 parts of that, 1 part powder and then 1 part heavy cream?

Is there a limit of how long i keep the boiled water in the fridge or do i have to keep replacing it every time I use it? Just thinking that I'd need about 6 cups of water in there throughout the day if I need to keep having it fresh after 8 hours.

Whilst we're talking about food, do you worry if 1 feed every now and then they don't seem to want it? I've tried weeing and pooping the boy and he's done a bit but hasn't seemed as eager for his feeds the last 2 times. I'm trying not to worry as they've all seemed to have done this on occasions but then guzzle the next one down. Would you island rehabbers say that can be normal or something to be alarmed at?

[island rehabber]

Whilst we're talking about food, do you worry if 1 feed every now and then they don't seem to want it? I've tried weeing and pooping the boy and he's done a bit but hasn't seemed as eager for his feeds the last 2 times. I'm trying not to worry as they've all seemed to have done this on occasions but then guzzle the next one down. Would you island rehabbers say that can be normal or something to be alarmed at?

Just answered this question in your other thread. :great

[Ozzy2019]

[QUOTE=Spanky;1299706]PetAg, the makers of Esbilac puppy formula, has recently informed some Esbilac users that the “ingredient particles” of the calcium source in the Esbilac formula may be too large to be properly digested by small mammals. This change appears to have been made in recent months.

TSB has been seeing members report a higher than normal rate of diarrhea, constipation, bloating and now bone (MBD) issues with babies being fed the Esbilac formula in the fall 2019 season.

Update 10/02/2019
As a result of the Esbilac fiasco the following is a "permanent" formula for use for babies up to 4 weeks old.

hGMF+ (Homemade Goat's Milk Formula Plus (Not temporary, for use in babies up to 4 weeks)):

[LIST]
3 parts Goat's Milk

[COLOR=#0000ff][FONT=comic sans


Is heavy cream the same thing as heavy wipping cream.?

Why do some rehabbers state that it should never be used?

Mary

[JosieMac3]

I have 3 baby pink and a little black eastern baby squirrels. We had to cut down our old Maple tree and in one of the parts of the tree were two baby squirrels. Then another baby squirrel was found on the ground near another tree. I read a lot of information and some contradict one another so I do not know what I need to do because right now the 3 babies are having issues.
I started giving the 3 babies Pedialyte to hydrate them than I started with the formula Esbilac with the prebiotics and probiotics and followed the directions of 2 part water to 1 part of the formula that I saw on a video. Then when overnight my babies became very thin. I read more and more information and I found out that I was supposed to start 3 parts water and 1 part formula. Then I started feeding them with this strength and first dehydrating them. I have been stimulating the squirrels every feeding and their bowels have been very loose. They are still very thin and I need help to bring them back to being healthy. I tried to contact my area vets and no one will help me. I went on Henry's Pet Food and this company brought me to your organization. Please help me save my babies.

[Mel1959]

Was there any chance of mom returning? Moms usually have more than one nest and will take their babies back even if they’ve been handled. They must be kept warm and you must watch over them. If you place them in a box that mom can access and it’s near where you found them she may retrieve them. That would be best if it’s possible.

What is the expiration date of your Esbilac? This is very important. If it has an expiration date of 10/21 or later, it is probably ok to use, as other rehabbers have had no problems with it. I assume this was not a can that you had for awhile. If it is, how it’s been stored is important, too. The can must be kept refrigerated and if stored for a long period of time, kept in the freezer. Is this powdered formula and not liquid? They ARE NOT the same. Liquid Esbilac has always caused diarrhea.

If you’ve visited the Henrys website then I’m sure you saw the 6 page instructions on caring for baby squirrels. It’s important to keep the babies warm. Rehydrate them and then feed them. The milk line on their tummies should go down before you feed them again.

An alternative to Esbilac is the homemade goats milk formula with an egg yolk can be found by clicking on the Esbilac banner at the top of the page.

[cbcoors]

i don't know if it will help, but i had a baby fall out of our tree. went on google, and asked how does a baby squirrel call for its moma..played the video and mom
was at my feet. went over to the baby and played again with my phone next to baby. mom got her and off they went. my wife loved it when mom scared me because
she was there so quick..good luck

[Jokev999]

Yes, I agree with IR and would go with Esbilac with cream added.

Hi, I've had my fox valley for squirrels from 4 weeks onwards arrive. Do i now stop feeding esbilac and give this instead? They're 4 weeks old tomorrow.

[Mel1959]

Yes, transition to the Fox Valley. Mix both your current formula and the FV formula according to directions, 1 part powder to 2 parts hot water. Ideally, these should sit for several hours to completely liquefy, stirring before feeding.

Once the formulas are ready fill your feeding syringe with 75% of the old formula and 25% of the new FV formula. Feed like this for a few feedings. After that fill your syringe with 50% old formula and 50% FV for a few feedings, then go to 25% old formula and 75% FV in the syringe. After that then you will be at 100% FV. This transition should take a couple of days and will allow your little ones stomach to adjust gradually to the new formula.

[MDV379]

I am wondering if the goats milk/yogurt/egg formula mixture can be frozen as my ingredients will expire before they can be consumed.
Thanks

[Mel1959]

Yes, mix it up and then freeze it in ice cube trays. Other folks have done it and said it worked fine.

[Squirrel_lover_24]

My can still has the blue banner, just not with pre and probiotics listed in the banner

So wait is this product bad or okay?

I’m so confused by all these posts. (⊙.☉)7

[Spanky]

So wait is this product bad or okay?

I’m so confused by all these posts. (⊙.☉)7

As of today... 09/06/2020... the consensus seems to be Esbilac with an expiration date of 10/2021 or later is okay (PetAg corrected the Calcium issue and lots of this date and later are okay).

Disclaimer: I personally have not used Esbilac since the debacle of 2019.

[UwantSomaThis]

As of today... 09/06/2020... the consensus seems to be Esbilac with an expiration date of 10/2021 or later is okay (PetAg corrected the Calcium issue and lots of this date and later are okay).

Disclaimer: I personally have not used Esbilac since the debacle of 2019.

Just noticed this. This could be a game changer for part-time citizen rehabbers in states with no access to licensed rehabbers and mandatory euthanasia laws (I’m looking at you, Oregon).

[Lillamys]

I bought a new can of Esbilac with the expiration date on 06/2022. Is it supposed to look clumpy? The first can was one of the “crafted in the USA “, it was fine and powdery. Should I take this one back to exchange for another one? I have been mixing it 50/50 with Fox Valley 20/50 as of now because my 5-6 week old squirrel would get constipated when I was trying to transition her to more of the Fox Valley. She has been on the 50/50 mix for a couple of days and her bowel movements have slowed from every other feeding to maybe once a day.

Oh and do you refrigerate the Fox Valley powder as you do the Esbilac?

[Spanky]

I bought a new can of Esbilac with the expiration date on 06/2022. Is it supposed to look clumpy? The first can was one of the “crafted in the USA “, it was fine and powdery. Should I take this one back to exchange for another one? I have been mixing it 50/50 with Fox Valley 20/50 as of now because my 5-6 week old squirrel would get constipated when I was trying to transition her to more of the Fox Valley. She has been on the 50/50 mix for a couple of days and her bowel movements have slowed from every other feeding to maybe once a day.

Oh and do you refrigerate the Fox Valley powder as you do the Esbilac?

Good to use Esbilac / FV half and half IMO.

That look like normal "room temperature" Esbilac to me. Yes, keep it in the freezer after opening.

[cha_she69]

I raised mine on scalded milk, heavy whipping cream & vitamin E oil. We never had upset stomach & she is the picture of health at 8 months old. I put her on Henry's blocks at the time she came off milk with no health issues ever except when I went to exotic blend food & she would not eat rodent blocks so we ordered more Henry's & made tums available until it arrived.
317776 younger picture

[island rehabber]

I raised mine on scalded milk, heavy whipping cream & vitamin E oil. We never had upset stomach & she is the picture of health at 8 months old.
You are extremely, extremely fortunate. More babies die on scalded milk "formulas" than any other -- and their deaths are slow and awful. We never recommend it here on TSB, EVER.

[Bravo]

PetAg, the makers of Esbilac puppy formula, has corrected the problem that caused serious issues in baby squirrels and other mammals back in 2019. Pet Ag has restored the type of ingredient formerly used in its well-known formula prior to 2019 so that it is safe again to use on babies from 0-4 weeks old. TSB can now highly recommend DRY, POWDERED ESBILAC puppy formula for baby squirrels, (NOT Esbilac liquid, NOT Petlac and NOT Esbilac Second Stage.)

Any lot (can) of Esbilac with an expiration date of 10/2021 OR LATER is safe. Many of us have been using it for pinkies through eyes-open for over a year with no issues whatsoever.

(There are also several alternatives to Esbilac for pinkies that are based on goat's milk, including this one:

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...ilk-Formula***)

We recommend adding Fox Valley Ultra Boost to Esbilac in these ratios:

0-2 weeks: 1 part Ultra Boost to 3 parts Esbilac
2 weeks to eyes open: 1 parts Ultra Boost to 2 parts Esbilac
Eyes open to weaning: 2 parts Fox Valley 20/50 to one part UB*

*Heavy whipping cream can be used while waiting for the Ultra Boost to arrive

Here are links to a few of the on-line retailers of Fox Valley 20/50:

https://www.henryspets.com/fox-valle...formula-20-50/

https://www.amazon.com/Fox-Valley-DA.../dp/B00EFX23LM

Many thanks to Spanky, Gayle and other Admins who have worked on this problem and come up with other workable formulas. Because Esbilac is the only readily available formula (sold in retail stores) for baby squirrels, it was deemed essential that we now spread the word that it is again safe -- IF the expiration date is 10/2021 or later.

island rehabber

[Kaitlinrose101]

Just clarifying. This is ok to use, right? 318022

[Mel1959]

Some folks have had problems with it. I’ve never used it. I’ve only ever used the regular powdered Esbilac not the goats milk Esbilac.

[Kaitlinrose101]

Some folks have had problems with it. I’ve never used it. I’ve only ever used the regular powdered Esbilac not the goats milk Esbilac.

I've been feeding GME it to my two babies from one week old to now (almost 6 weeks). They both have been having soft stool the last 2 days. I am not overfeeding because I weigh every day and feed 5% body weight. I always saw on here to get powdered Esbilac with an expiration after 10/2021. Which I did. The can says "powdered esbilac" on it. So that's what I got but I didn't know there was a different one that doesn't say goats milk on it. So should I switch to the other one? The one with the white puppy on the front, right? Can something be edited in the original post that states which powdered esbilac is best? Because I didn't see anywhere where it said "Don't use the goats milk powdered esbilac." Also, how do I transition? Should I rehydrate with a homemade pedialyte solution? I'm so upset that I've been feeding the wrong thing!!!:sniff

[Kaitlinrose101]

I feel like I'm going to throw up. My heart is racing. I'm getting the normal stuff immediately. Any advice is welcome please.

[Mel1959]

You can give them some hydration to flush their system, but the goats milk Esbilac isn’t as bad as the liquid Esbilac or the Pet Lac stuff.

Transition by mixing both formulas independently according to the directions....1 part powder to 2 parts hot water. Pull up into your syringe 75% the old formula and 25% the new formula. Feed a feeding of this. The next feeding pull up 50% old formula and 50% new formula and the next feeding pull up 25% old formula and 75% new formula. After that you’ll be at 100% new formula.

Since they already have loose stool you may not be able to tell that the transition upsets their system. This is a quick transition, ideally it’s nice to take a couple of days to transition over, but they should be fine. Continue to offer water in between feedings to help replace some hydration lost from the loose stool.

You can also add some full fat vanilla yogurt to their formula to provide some extra probiotics.....about a 1/2 tsp.

Edit: I see Crittermom has advised to get fox valley 20/50. �� The transition would be the same, just do a couple of feedings at each new formula combination instead of just one feeding. ��

[Kaitlinrose101]

You can give them some hydration to flush their system, but the goats milk Esbilac isn’t as bad as the liquid Esbilac or the Pet Lac stuff.

Transition by mixing both formulas independently according to the directions....1 part powder to 2 parts hot water. Pull up into your syringe 75% the old formula and 25% the new formula. Feed a feeding of this. The next feeding pull up 50% old formula and 50% new formula and the next feeding pull up 25% old formula and 75% new formula. After that you’ll be at 100% new formula.

Since they already have loose stool you may not be able to tell that the transition upsets their system. This is a quick transition, ideally it’s nice to take a couple of days to transition over, but they should be fine. Continue to offer water in between feedings to help replace some hydration lost from the loose stool.

You can also add some full fat vanilla yogurt to their formula to provide some extra probiotics.....about a 1/2 tsp.

Edit: I see Crittermom has advised to get fox valley 20/50. �� The transition would be the same, just do a couple of feedings at each new formula combination instead of just one feeding. ��


You guys are a life saver! Thank you so much! I got the FV ultraboost in today (which I saw was recommended to add to your formula. ) Once they are 100% transitioned to the the FV, how should I mix in the ultraboost? How do you measure and mix. I have 4 squirrels to feed. Two that are almost 6 weeks and two that are about 8 weeks. I would like to mix enough for all day.
Also, what is the best way to store the ultraboost and 20/50? On the bag, it says a cool, dry place, but I was wondering how you guys store it. Thank you!!

[Mel1959]

I always use Ultraboost with my formula. Substitute 25% of the Fox Valley with the Ultraboost....whatever the amount is that you need for a days worth of feedings. You use the same amount of water to reconstitute the Ultraboost as you do the 20/50.....1 part powder to2 parts hot water.

[Mel1959]

I forgot to say, store the bags of formula in the freezer or refrigerator. Long term I always store in the freezer. The same with the Henrys blocks....freeze them and take out a few days worth and store them in a baggie in the fridge. :grin2

[island rehabber]

I keep the bags (from Henry's) and the can of Esbilac in the freezer. Every few days I pre-mix the powders together --- either :

--3parts Esbilac to 1 part UB for pinkies, or

--2 parts Esbilac to 1 part UB for 2wks until eyes open..... and keep the mixture in the refrigerator.

Then all I have to do is scoop out the powder and mix your regular way --- 2 parts water to 1 part powder -- and feed the kids.

After eyes open I transition to Fox Valley 20/50, with one part UB thrown in. Usually I do 1 to 2 again.

[Patrisse]

I’ve had my squirrel for 2/3 weeks his eyes were shut but are open now i estimate he’s 6/7 weeks but he has gone off his milk but is eating nuts and fruit etc he poo ok I’m just worried he not getting enough? He on puppy milk

[Grinderhead]

I’ve had my squirrel for 2/3 weeks his eyes were shut but are open now i estimate he’s 6/7 weeks but he has gone off his milk but is eating nuts and fruit etc he poo ok I’m just worried he not getting enough? He on puppy milk

Please stop all nuts and fruit. At this age he should only be getting formula and a rodent block. Check out the link its 6 pages.
Next page is at the top right. https://henryspets.com/1-baby-squirrel-care-guide/

[John Roush]

2 yrs ago when COVID-19 started I rescued a baby squirrel and raised her until she was about 8 months, I was able to release her back into the wild, 2 months later she rescued another squirrel and carried it out of a tree back to us to assist.

In the process I was able to save her life, but tragically 10 months later, she died. I am trying to find out why this happened, I called over 40 Vets in the Tri State area, nobody would help us, nobody treated squirrels.

5 June, She returned back to the wild to return back to our home and 1 week later, she lost a lot of weight, we thought maybe she was dehydrated, no worries we gave her water / baby formula with calcium with syringe and kept her hydrated. She started getting better, at first she was not energetic, not playful just wanted to sleep, all signs symptoms of MBD, I found 5 ticks on her, one in each ear, 2 on her back and another crawling on her leg. I removed the ticks, washed her with soap water and kept her hydrated. She was getting better and then her hind leg started swelling, within 24 hrs she started having seizures difficulty breathing and then died. I tried to call over 40 animal shelters/vets nobody would help out because she was a squirrel. I did everything I could to save her. Just trying to see, what she might have got into,

1. 5 Jun 2021 – released her into the wild
2. 12 Jun 2021 – returned home from the wild 2 pm
3. 12 Jun 2021 – 2 pm found/removed 5 ticks, she acted confused, very scared, tried to hide/sleep all day/night in her nest, later she started to have a fever, her head was burning up, we hydrated her immediately with water/formula in syringe every hr
4. 13 Jun 2021 – she started moving a little more, still sleepy and didn’t want to eat drink, kept the syringe going with formula, a Vet said try to give HARTZ ULTRA GUARD Flea& Tick drops, I bought some from Walmart, one dose of .001 oz drop of the .031 fl oz ampule to treat for all the fleas and ticks on her. Later she started having a fever. Gave her fluids, fever broke.
5. 14 Jun 2021 – she started drinking water on her own, eating a little but on her own, later that night her right hind leg started swelling, we were thinking spider bite, no worries, she has been through this. Kept the calcium and hydrating
6. 15 Jun 2021 – doing much better, eating more and then later that day around 5 pm, my wife called and said her leg is starting to turn darker and she is not looking so good, I get home at 8 pm, she is responsive but notice she is agitated, she runs hides, feet are cold to the touch and then started convulsions, I pick her up, her breathing is slow, agonal breathing and then she is gone.

What happened to her? was it the drops? Lime disease, or something she ate, never seen anything like this, we didn’t have any number for any vet that would help a squirrel so we were on our own. I called 40 places, no help

At first we didn’t think it was that bad because she went through this with a spider bite, I mean we only had 3 days with her, could this have been enough time to help her? Antibiotics? Or was it too late? I wish we had more time to help her.

[Spanky]

4. 13 Jun 2021 – she started moving a little more, still sleepy and didn’t want to eat drink, kept the syringe going with formula, a Vet said try to give HARTZ ULTRA GUARD Flea& Tick drops, I bought some from Walmart, one dose of .001 oz drop of the .031 fl oz ampule to treat for all the fleas and ticks on her. Later she started having a fever. Gave her fluids, fever broke.

I cannot say definitively it was the HARTZ ULTRA GUARD Flea& Tick drops but if I were a gambling man (and I am) this is where I would place my bet. If it is not safe for dogs less than 5 lbs, I'd doubt it could be safe for a squirrel.

I am not really familiar with the active ingredients in this product, but as a general rule I would avoid every thing made by Hartz, FWIW.

Maybe someone else is familiar with using Phenothrin in wildlife (it appears in none of my wildlife references).