What is happening to my baby squirrels

[Shellbee]

Hi all, I have a few questions as to what is happening to my 2 month old baby squirrels .. I'm terribly upset. I found 4 baby squirrels at the end of June. Momma squirrel did not come back to get her babies so it became dark and they were squealing like crazy so I took them in and found ur forum on how to care . Every bump I came acrossed with raising them and I conquered with reading post on here . But anyways 3 days ago the first squirrel passed away. She was perfectly fine . No obvious reason what so ever.. 1 hour after my second one passed .. I was devasted! So today I went two bring out my other two for feeding/playtime and I found my Lil boy dead .. I now am down to 1 . What is going on ? Truly there is no sign of any type of issues.. please help! I do not want to loose another one .. my family is so upset!

[CritterMom]

Wow. I am so sorry. We need more info.

What are you feeding them? They are still on formula, right? What brand, how much, how often, etc.

Are they anywhere that anyone could access them and give them something toxic? People can be real prizes.

Any changes happen before they died? Any signs at all?

[Shellbee]

They are on puppy supplemental formula (starts with an I ) but has the pre and pro biotics ) around 10-12 mls 4 times a day . Rodent blocks from henery's which they did not really care for. I gave them apples maybe a week ago. Piece of cucumber . Haven't expanded to much with the fruits and veggies.

There truley were no signs until it happen.. just started gasping for air and then they were gone. I'm freaking out because my little girl seems to be acting wierd .
Are you able to call me?

[Shellbee]

Sorry there is no possible way they got into anything nor anyone would harm them . My husband took them to work with him every day I was working so that they didn't miss a feeding. We all enjoyed them during the evenings but I did those feeding as long the night shift when they were smaller. None of them aspirated .. I'm beside myself and I can't figure this out. My last living (nutella) seems to be less energetic and really being really loving . I know they are loving but it's a little more than usual.

Could they need more calcium even being on formula.. the deaths of the first two were within an hour .. I'm worried I just lost my zingy and don't want nutella to be next

[Spanky]

Could they need more calcium even being on formula.. the deaths of the first two were within an hour .. I'm worried I just lost my zingy and don't want nutella to be next

Yes, there are very few and specific puppy formulas that meet the nutritional requirements of squirrels. Esbilac (the powdered version) and FOX Valley 20/50 are the two best. Very few (maybe one or two) others...

The most important questions were what (specifically) are you feeding them, how much and how often .

[HRT4SQRLS]

Are they on puppy pads?

[Shellbee]

This last container is PetAg milk replacer plus . It's says newborn to 6 week puppies. It's powdered they eat anywhere between 10-12 mls every 4-5 hours

She feels really warm and getting more sluggish.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Just to elaborate on the ‘taking them to work’. Could they have overheated in the car during a stop?

There has a be a reason. This is very unusual for babies to die so suddenly. At 2 months they are usually stable and thriving. Did they appear healthy? Plump bellies?

I have 3 about that age.

[stepnstone]

This last container is PetAg milk replacer plus . It's says newborn to 6 week puppies. It's powdered they eat anywhere between 10-12 mls every 4-5 hours
She feels really warm and getting more sluggish.

This "last container" is not the proper formula, what was the first container?
Squirrels are fed between 5-7% of body weight
Did you weigh them to know how much you should have been feeding them?

The correct Esbilac powered formula:
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[Shellbee]

So his job is only 3 miles away and they have there own carry cage he takes them in .. they are only out to feed and it's air conditioned . No puppy pads.

They are really healthy . Had them since they were pinkies, days old if that.

She is trying to go to sleep, I don't want her to. That's when we lost our other one .. she doesn't seem real but really sluggish . I haven't done anything different

[Shellbee]

Mine just says PetAg Milk replacer plus a good source or prebiotics and probiotics . My husband just reminded me it was the same formula just with a different or updated label. We were almost ready to buy something different but didn't because he said it was the same store same place in the store so he read it and it was the same

Yes I actually learned the 5%-7% rule from ur forum. I went and bought a scale just for that reason

[Shellbee]

Is there anything I can give her to replenish the lost nutrients if it was the wrong formula? I have my husband trying to find a store that is opened that has the correct formula

[Shellbee]

that 3rd ingrediate is not the same as u have posted . Is there anything that I can do for her? This is heartbreaking . all the work and time I put into these little guys to save them. Truly I spent excessive amount of hours taking care and raising my fur babies, thought I was doing everything correct because they look so healthy and they seemed so happy!

[HRT4SQRLS]

I think it is probably the formula. I’m trying to post the ingredient list for the proper Esbilac and the PetAg milk replacer. It does appear that the PetAg is deficient.
If he can’t find Esbilac formula tonight I would buy goat milk, full fat yogurt and heavy cream. I would literally be afraid to feed more of that formula.

[redwuff]

This last container is PetAg milk replacer plus . It's says newborn to 6 week puppies. It's powdered they eat anywhere between 10-12 mls every 4-5 hours

She feels really warm and getting more sluggish.

Can you post a picture of any of your babies taken recently. Feeding the wrong formula usually shows up in body condition

[Shellbee]

I have been using the whipping cream

[HRT4SQRLS]

Esbilac puppy formula ingredient list

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PetAg Milk Replacer ingredient list

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[Shellbee]

Yes my phone is nothing but pics of the little ones. Is there a special way to upload?

[redwuff]

Yes, send them to japel2@aol.com and I will post for you

[HRT4SQRLS]

The Esbilac is 33% Protein and 40% Fat.
The PetAg has 29% Protein and 28% Fat.

I also note that the Esbilac has dried cream while the PetAg has dried skim milk.

I’m not a nutritionist but I think the low fat might be part of the problem. For babies, fat is required for the development of the brain, nerves and also cellular function. A lot of those ‘other’ micronutrients, minerals and vitamins might also be lacking.

You might want to pick up a tube of Nutrical. It is packed with vitamins and minerals.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I have been using the whipping cream

That would have definitely boosted the fat content of the formula.

[Shellbee]

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[Shellbee]

What the chances of 3/4 and now my 4th one is being wierd.. is it something viral or anything they can be born with?

[HRT4SQRLS]

What is her weight?

She is precious. :Love_Icon

[HRT4SQRLS]

What the chances of 3/4 and now my 4th one is being wierd.. is it something viral or anything they can be born with?

Almost no chance of that. If they were all afflicted with something it’s unlikely they would have survived this long. With anything like that you see symptoms of some type to let you know they are ill.

Is her fur fully filled in?

[Shellbee]

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[Shellbee]

Yes the pictures do no Justice for them .. no hair missing she is nice and full . Beautiful tail. This is mind boggling! Especially when u think they r healthy. I had alot of comments on how nice they look!

[HRT4SQRLS]

She looks perfect. Weight?

I’m going to weigh my 8 week olds as a comparison.

Edit.... my 8 week old FL grey squirrels weigh 189 and 203g. FL squirrels are much smaller than northern squirrels.

[Shellbee]

She weighs 230 grams. At least that is what she weighed Yesterday. Didn't want to weigh her today with her not acting right

They were all precious! She really took to me along with zingy (the one that passed away today).. best experience of my life .. work in the Operating Room and that's all I can talk about.. they were (are) the highlight of my day! Everyday

[Shellbee]

We couldn't get the replacement formula but my husband drove 40 min away to get the goat milk .

Is there other important food /vitamins I should focus on ?

[HRT4SQRLS]

I’m just going to throw one more idea out there.

Is there any possibility of Carbon Monoxide in your home? I realize this is summer so no one has a furnace running right now. Gas in the home? A small animal would succumb to low levels of CO before humans would. I just read a story yesterday of a woman that was sick for TEN years and no doctor could diagnose her. After 10 years a service tech in the home discovered the gas water heater was leaking low levels of CO in the home.
I just thought I would throw that out there as a possibility.

Ruling out something like that, then it would almost have to be the formula.

[HRT4SQRLS]

We couldn't get the replacement formula but my husband drove 40 min away to get the goat milk .

Is there other important food /vitamins I should focus on ?

Which goat milk did you get .... fresh, concentrated or powdered?

The weight sounds about right.

[Shellbee]

We do have a gas water heater. My husband will be home in a few I will have him check.

Thank you and everyone who gave advice .. I really appreciate your knowledge and and you taking the time to help us, It's been rough. We made these guys part of our family our everyday life so everyone is taking it hard .
My son is upset that they passed but also been crying because he feels bad that Nutella lost her brothers & sisters. We really grew close to them. But will do everything in our power to prevent our last one from leaving us!

[HRT4SQRLS]

I would use the goat milk and the heavy cream tonight. https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?29904-TEMPORARY-Goat-s-Milk-Formula***/page2 The recipe is on post #1 . If you have yogurt that would even be better.
I hate to give her the runs but losing 3 squirrels is highly unusual so I would be afraid of the formula. Tomorrow I would make it a mission to get powdered Puppy Esbilac formula with probiotics and prebiotics. You mentioned the Henry’s blocks. I would put peanut butter on the block and heat it a few seconds in the microwave. She REALLY needs to eat the block.

I wish we had a definitive answer but it’s unlikely we will ever know for sure.


PS... if you have the concentrated goat milk it MUST be diluted 1:1 with water.

[redwuff]

I would get this baby started on MBD treatment immediately. I have not had this experience but my friend who has been rehabber for 20 years has. Babies are fine and then die 1 by 1. Marty had a vet look at one of the ones that passed. The baby had the thinning of bones that is indicative of MBD.

Read the MBD protocol. Her diet needs to be changed, but this protocol will hopefully save her life. Look under the forum SQUIRREL NUTRITION go down sticky’s and look for MBD treatment

[Shellbee]

That formula is in the garbage .. I will be stopping to get the formula in the a.m.got some extra time to take off work so I am. He said it is in a carton probably like the whip but I will read it soon as he gets here

[Shellbee]

So we were just talking, do squirrels get worms? I do recall zingy the one that passed today scooch across his cage with his bum.. I just seen Nutella do it and it reminded me about him doing it and also I didn't see her go to the bathroom today

[redwuff]

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?32122-MBD-Treatment

[HRT4SQRLS]

I did catch one thing. You mentioned feeding 10-12 ml every 4 hours.
An eight week old can easily take 10% of their body weight every feeding. At 230g the amount would be over 20ml up to 23ml of formula per feeding. I know my little guys are guzzling it down now.

With that said, your baby looks fine, doesn’t look starved/skinny, weight seems OK but just so you know, your baby can have a lot more than 10-12 ml.

The 5-7% is a guideline not a law. It’s more important for smaller babies to monitor the intake to avoid bloating. Older babies don’t follow the 5-7% guideline. They take much more than that.
You can also increase the feeding interval. Mine were being feed 4 times a day (no nights) up until yesterday. I moved to 3 formula feedings a day. Of course, they are eating solids (Envigo Teklad 2018 rodent block, Henry’s Picky Eater block and kale)

[HRT4SQRLS]

So we were just talking, do squirrels get worms? I do recall zingy the one that passed today scooch across his cage with his bum.. I just seen Nutella do it and it reminded me about him doing it and also I didn't see her go to the bathroom today

They do get worms. Are the gums pale?

If you have Tums, you can start the MBD treatment. If not, pick up some tomorrow.

[Shellbee]

Just called my mother in law she has Tums. This is scary and I feel bad! I hope this isn't the problem! But will treat as it is.. the are normal and then All of a sudden they get sluggish then weak and then they r gone very active up til then. My zingy did through up right before he passed (traumatizing to watch) I'm still so beside myself with loosing these guys.
So that is the max that Nutella drinks . That's why I give her an extra feeding during the day. She was the runt of the siblings . Zingy was almost twice her size.

[redwuff]

Just checking. Had you given any acorns or anything from outside? They can carry mycotoxins which kill very quickly.

If this is an MBD issue, the treatment will help quickly. Give the amount for a juvenile.

[Shellbee]

They haven't any type of nuts yet . I just started giving them veggies.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I got so involved in the ‘why’ I forgot to say that I’m sorry about your losses. I just fed my babies and my thoughts drifted to your situation and thought how devastating that must be to get this far and then lose them. I’m so so sorry. :grouphug

[redwuff]

How is your baby?:grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

My zingy did through up right before he passed (traumatizing to watch) I'm still so beside myself with loosing these guys.


Earlier you said that you have given apples and cucumber.
Do you take the skin off.
Just trying to figure this mystery out. :(

[Shellbee]

Just an update Nutella us doing fine. She seemed to get more and more active as the night went on, even before giving crushed Tums. She did have a busy morning and then I'm sure the stress of her brother passing did not help. I will continue treating her for MBD until something proves otherwise.
I am continuously on here (I learn something new everyday) so that I can be the best squirrel mom I can be so please if you find something else that it could be, please post . Unfortunately, I felt like I lost my best friend yesterday and in no way did I mean to harm him or any of them.. I felt as though I educated myself enough to take on the responsibility of raising these helpless babies, but that has proven itself. It has been a such a wonderful experience raising the 4 of them and it Gave me a a whole new outlook on squirrels. I hope they felt they were loved and we will miss (already missing) them and their spunky personalities. Thank you tremendously to all you who helped! If anything changes with baby Nutella I will be back.

[Shellbee]

Yes I peeled them and made sure they were big enough that they wouldn't choke. At that time, they didn't swallow them, they seemed to just chew them up and spit them out! Once the pieces were small I took the piece of apple away. They were always supervised when eating because I was a nervous Nelly when I gave them food. If I could I would formula feed forever, love the bonding time!

[Shellbee]

Wow, after going back and reading all the threads, I apologize for the crazy amount of misspelled words. I was in panic mode or crying while trying to type.. My apologies!

[TubeDriver]

I am so sorry about your babies. :grouphug

I would continue to treat for MBD and work on diet but the timing (2 otherwise healthy looking squirrels passing away within a few days) convinces me that this was something that recently happened (left in hot car, ingested something toxic, carbon monoxide etc etc).

No avocado skins or pits? Nothing new given to eat? Pesticide or insecticide recently used?

I would completely strip put their cage, remove absolutely everything. Clean it thoroughly, wash all fleece, clean or replace toys etc. Double check their room, the area they play, any area they can roam in. Get down on hands and knees, peer under furniture, behind sofas etc, just double check their environment. Look for anything that they could get into, ant trap bait, electrical cords, any food or chemicals of any type?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Shellee, I just couldn’t get the loss of your babies off of my mind last night.

The more I thought about it, I just can’t see how a deficient formula could kill 3 in a short period of time without other clues. With a deficient diet you expect skinny babies, stunted growth, kitten fur and other obvious signs of malnutrition. I don’t see that at all with the pic of Nutella. If this was MBD I would have thought that at least one of the babies would have presented with the ‘classic’ signs of MBD like hind end paralysis and seizures. You mentioned gasping and throwing up followed by death. Neither of those are MBD symptoms. I’m NOT saying stop the MBD treatment. Definitely continue the treatment as we have no other cause in the differential other than MBD or nutritional. The PetAg milk replacer is clearly deficient but just how deficient? We just don’t know.

I’m curious as to what type of bin or cage they are in. My babies are still in a bin and their baby cage is arriving tomorrow. I can change their bedding and within 5 hrs the bin has condensation on the walls. I have always had a curiosity about CO2 levels in a plastic bin. When mammals breathe they exhale CO2. CO2 is heavier than air so it stays in the bin unless the physically tilt the bin or fan it out. I have actually found myself fanning the bin to circulate the air. I once put two holes near the bottom of a bin to allow CO2 to flow out of the holes at the bottom. It was a good idea until the babies found the hole and started chewing an escape route. :) Could toxic levels of CO2 form in a bin? I just don’t know. CO2 in high concentrations is toxic as it displaces the oxygen needed for life.

This will torment me because I just don’t know the answer as I’m sure it will you.

For now, all you can do is get the proper formula and continue the MBD treatment in the absence of any other definitive answer.

[Shellbee]

So the first 2 that passed were in a different home. My best friend that lives next door was raising two of them . She actually successfully raised and released 2 of them 3 years ago. So she did have some experience. Anyways I felt it was the right thing to do was to have her take 2 which separation had happened before their eyes even opened. I wanted all of them to have the best care . She is fortunate to not have to work and seemed to be the best fit plus, I got to visit my babes every day! But her two were the first to go. It happened last Thursday . First passed away and within a hour the second passed. She was frantically driving around all night trying to find a vet that would help care for them or that was even opened at that time of hour. But she ended up passing away, and then mine baby boy(zingy) yesterday. Nutella seems to be doing fine now but that does not mean anything . I have not let them roam the house yet.. I moved them to a larger cage but I changed nothing in the process. Last night I removed everything and put new of what I could and will be stopping at pet store to get what I didn't have extra of. It's all very wierd and can't wrap my head around what happened and why so sudden. I feel like they had no MBD symptoms at all but I am trying everything in my power to keep Nutella with us so I am treating for MBD.

Is there a guide on how much of what food or like foods she should be eating at her age? I found them but now her at the very end of June and she had no hair. They were true pinkies

[HRT4SQRLS]

Well, that rules out any environmental causes. I assume she was using the PetAg milk replacer also. ?

[HRT4SQRLS]

An 8 week old should still be taking puppy Esbilac formula. I introduced Envigo Teklad 2018 at about 6 weeks. I also gave them 1/2 blocks of Henry’s Picky Eater block. I have had zero luck getting squirrels to eat the Henry’s baby/flyer blocks. This week I introduced kale. They really like it. At 8 weeks you can be introducing healthy veggies like broccoli, Brussel sprouts, cauliflower. Give them the nasty stuff first. They will eat it if it’s all they know. Then give them sugar snap peas, mushrooms, avocado and other veggies on the healthy diet chart. I don’t give fruit to little babies. Mine don’t even know nuts exist until shortly before release. Then they get a nut treat but that’s only after they are good eaters of the healthy stuff.

[Shellbee]

Let me see if I can pull up pics of their cages. I didn't notice their stuff being damp, at all. It's wierd that u said cat like fur because the two that my friend/neighbor raised seemed to have fur as u described . I thought that was wierd being that when I had them they all looked the same. To the point that I couldn't tell who was who so I marked one of the back to nail. I couldn't understand why they looked different and they were much smaller. Hmmmm... Kinda would explain that situation but not for my baby. He was my chunky butt, much more chunky than nutella.
Also I still have a heating pad is that okay?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Kitten fur is from nutritional deficiencies. Is it exactly what it sounds like. Thin, soft, kitten-like fur. Baby squirrel fur is course.

I still have a heating pad on but my two 8 week olds don’t really need it. I have a 7 week old with them that is much smaller (different littler) and she does need the heat.

[Shellbee]

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[Shellbee]

This was my traveling cage. Husband had to take them to work so we didn't miss feedings. They we're taken out and fed on lap and put back in til I picked them up

[Shellbee]

New cage

[Shellbee]

This is Nutella! The one that passed yesterday . Pic is a little less than a week old. Seemed fine!

[TubeDriver]

What were the symptoms you saw before they passed? Pooping and peeing fine? Breathing normal? You mentioned lethargy, anything else?

[redwuff]

This is Nutella! The one that passed yesterday . Pic is a little less than a week old. Seemed fine!

Ugh, I am so sorry. So hard to believe. Did your friend feed the same formula?

I will do a write up this evening to give more information on the babies that just died without the usual symptoms from MBD. There were a couple of situations that I will flush out for more information.

Please know that I am not saying with absolute assurance that what happened to your babies is MBD. But if it is, maybe we can catch it for The baby left with the treatment.

[Shellbee]

It's so unfortunate, they were all prescious but Zingy (one who passed yesterday) was just special.. I was sad to leave him in the mornings and so excited to see him when I got home. He was so lovable, and full of spunk! He always had us laughing! Had to leave work this morning because I am a hot mess and I wanted to be with Nutella . I'm sure she realizes she doesn't have her brother and want to keep a close eye on her.
No symptoms or unusual behavior. He just had his feeding and acted normal. He played while his sister was fed and in there cage they went . Maybe a half hour after is when he was found, all snuggled up. His sister was acting really strange yesterday evening seemed sluggish didn't eat much . Constantly checked on her throughout the night and seemed okay. Usually when woke they want to play but she went back to sleep. Woke her at 5a.m to check on her and she was super normal.. just don't get it!
Yes the two siblings were also fes the same formula