Need help with baby squirrel

[Squeaks]

Ok so I have had a baby (red?) Squirrel for almost a month I believe she is 7 weeks old. As she has both upper and lower front teeth and eyes have been open since 5 weeks old. Just trying to figure out if she is an american red squirrel or a eastern gray. She is still very tiny (36g) and eats her formula very well. Not skinny at all and thriving she runs around her cage like a wild woman lol She is eating 4- 4.25cc 3 times a day now she will be 8 weeks on Tuesday if my calculations are correct. 309832 309833 309834309836
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[PrincessPeach]

I would guess eastern grey. My baby girl looked just like that when we found her. The grey squirrels have brown in their fur too. I'm not an expert but I've seen about a billion pictures of both since she found us and that's what we came up with.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Hi Squeaks, welcome to TheSquirrelBoard

Just curious, are these current pics. The ears are what caught my attention. They are so tiny.
36 grams is extremely tiny for a squirrel. Even in FL where our squirrels are much smaller than up north, this would be a miniature squirrel for 7 weeks. I had a pinky grey that was 21g so the 36 is really throwing me. An 7 week old grey (FL) would be almost 200g.

I’m not at all familiar with red squirrels as we don’t have them in FL. According to Google an adult red squirrel would weigh 200-250g. Are you sure about the 36g? If the weight is correct it would almost have to be a red squirrel. Running around the cage ‘like a wild woman’ sounds like a red squirrel. :)

What are you feeding the baby?

[Squeaks]

Thank you for the warm welcome!! :grin3

Yes I just got a scale today and she is 36 grams... If scale is correct!! Her ears go back and forth with being up right and then laid down. The rehabbers i called around here in Michigan close to me were all full and could not take her in. They did however give me some pointers... Ive had her since she was 2 weeks this is what they told me to feed her

1 cup of boiled whole milk (to kill bacteria)
4 tablespoons heavy whipping cream
1 teaspoon of coconut oil
All boiled and cooled stirring frequently

She just started henrys squirrel blocks today and likes them. I have had no issues with her. She poops great solid poop, pee is pretty transparent, not dehydrated due to skin pinch test. She does not need stimulation no more. She has front and bottom teeth, not sure about molars she wont let me look. Very very active. She eats 4-5ccs 3 times a day. She is not skinny, she is plump but not bloated.

She can't regulate body temp yet though. She is in a 2 story cage but only access to bottom when im not around and has no problem climbing up the sides. She comes to the cage door at the sound of my voice. She grunts and makes little squeak noises. Other than her seeming extremely small compared to an eastern grey (which is why I believe she is a red, ive done alot of research on what reds look like) she seems to be healthy and on track. I just cant find a good weight guide to go by for red squirrels.

Also I let her intake as much formula as she wants and she usually stops between 4-5ccs every feeding.. Shes been gradually increasing her intake every week.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Squeaks, please don't log off. This will take me some time.
We have some work to do. Your baby has been on a terrible formula. That is the reason the baby is SO small.

I'm going to post this and start typing.

[Squeaks]

Thank you please let me know what to do!?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Let's just say I HOPE this is a red squirrel. A grey squirrel in Michigan at nearly 8 weeks would probably weigh literally 10 times what your baby weighs.

Your baby has gained very little weight. Again, I'm not familiar with red squirrels but I bet a Michigan baby red squirrel weighs 20g at birth.
The formula that they recommended doesn't have adequate nutrients. It is actually a harmful formula. On an appropriate formula your baby would be MUCH larger than 36g.

I would purchase powdered Esbilac puppy formula with probiotics and prebiotics. You could also buy FoxValley 20/50 but it is only available online. I don't think you need to wait. The Esbilac can be purchased at pet retailers locally. IMHO I think it is urgent that you get your baby on a better formula ASAP. The babies growth is stunted from the formula.

You should transition the formula slowly. Don't switch abruptly or it will cause GI issues.
Mix your formula.... Mix the Esbilac per the instructions. For the first feeding mix 3 parts Milk formula with 1 part Esbilac. Feed a couple feedings like this. Then go to 2 parts Milk formula with 2 parts Esbilac. Feed a couple feedings. Then go to 1 part Milk formula with 3 parts Esbilac. Feed a couple feedings. Then go to full strength Esbilac.

The problem is that your baby is nearing the time when they will start trying to wean. Please try very hard to NOT let her self wean. She needs the proper formula desperately.

Hopefully tomorrow someone that has had red squirrels will post some pics of 8 week old reds so that you can see just how tiny your little one is.

[Squeaks]

Ohhh my gosh, why would they tell me to feed her that? I will get some of that tomorrow and get started right away with transitioning.

The closest things i can come up with for age of red squirrel is a few youtube videos but i dont know whats right. Someones shows a 6-1/2 week old red that has very bushy tail and eating lots of different solids and then this video of a 10 week old ... Very similar small ears as mine and looks a little bigger than mine
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[Squeaks]

She is at 38 grams now... Im about to feed her

[HRT4SQRLS]

Don't buy the liquid puppy Esbilac in the can. It's not the same as the powdered puppy Esbilac.

I've tried to find pics of reds with the age but I'm not having luck. There is a subsection on the board specifically for red squirrels under Breed Specific. I'm sure somewhere in there are some pics with the age.

[HRT4SQRLS]

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?45768-my-new-babies!

I found a thread about red squirrels that gives some weights and ages. There are probably better ones but this was what I could find tonight.

The poster indicated that the age was approximately 4 weeks when found. The weights were 1.63 ounces (46g) and 1.56 ounces (44g). A week later (5 weeks) the weights were recorded as 1.82 (51g) and 1.78 (50g).

This gives you a reference for size/age. It also includes a photo.

[Squeaks]

You are awesome!! Thank you so much... Mine is definitely a red looks just like those two.. And i will definitely get the powdered stuff! I cant wait to see her grow better being on this stuff. I feel terrible now!! Sounds like she should be at least double her weight now.

[stepnstone]

Ohhh my gosh, why would they tell me to feed her that?
It sounds like they got a recipe from "scalded milk guy," who has killed many squirrels with that
emaciating recipe and yet he will swear by it and still encourage it's use.... :shakehead

[HRT4SQRLS]

Ohhh my gosh, why would they tell me to feed her that? I will get some of that tomorrow and get started right away with transitioning.


Unfortunately there is a website out there that recommends the “formula” that was recommended to you. We absolutely hate it when people like yourself find his bad information on the internet. He has a following. He is extremely anti-commercial formula. He is even anti-antibiotics. :shakehead
He is also extremely anti-TSB as he has been challenged with his practices. Let’s face it, some squirrels can actually survive with this nutrient inadequate “ formula” but most don’t thrive as is the case with Squeaks. There are photos out there of scalded milk emancipated babies that would break your heart.
According to him the scalding inactivates enzymes in the milk that cause diarrhea in babies. That is a bunch of nonsense. The boiling has nothing to do with bacteria as all our milk supply is pasteurized unless you’re milking your own cow, :tilt

I’m thrilled that you found us when you did. You should see Squeaks start gaining weight. She has a lot of catching up to do. I would monitor her weight daily. Record it. You want to see daily gains. I hate to say this but Squeaks might become a non-release due to her size. I know that would break your heart to keep her and love her forever. :grin2

I was SO confused when you first came on last night. The 36g was throwing me. I couldn’t even imagine that for a squirrel the age you were stating. Squirrels in Michigan are BIG compared to the squirrels in FL. I have no doubt that a grey squirrel in Michigan is probably born weighing 36g so I think we have established that Squeak is definitely a Red. :rotfl

[HRT4SQRLS]

It sounds like they got a recipe from "scalded milk guy," who has killed many squirrels with that
emaciating recipe and yet he will swear by it and still encourage it's use.... :shakehead

Step, I looked up his recipe and it is exactly what she was told to feed. Yes, ANOTHER scalded milk baby. :shakehead

[HRT4SQRLS]

Squeaks, could you post a couple current pics. Show the face from the front and side.

Those ears are still throwing me. They sure are small. :thinking

[Squeaks]

I got powdered formula after visiting 5 different places but finally found one!! I wish I wouldve got on this site sooner. I hope I can realease her, i live on 5 wooded acres but no pines around here so I would realease her somewhere with pines.

I took new pics today, I love her to death but I have two goldens and a cat who cant wait to sink their teeth in a squirrel (my goldens are reds and love to hunt) i could not possibly keep her long term. She needs a bath as she got some milk on base of her tail yesterday and ive been trying to wipe it off but she hates to hold still.

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[CritterMom]

Definitely a little red. I am so glad you got here!

[stepnstone]

I got powdered formula after visiting 5 different places but finally found one!!
I sure hope it was the correct one as pictured below....
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[HRT4SQRLS]

Squeaks is precious. :grin2 Tiny and cute as a button.

I just wanted to make sure that she’s not a dwarf red. Yes, there are genetic dwarfs but I think Squeaks is just stunted from nutritional deficiencies.

[Squeaks]

Yes it is that stuff... I mixed as directed. Fed her and she took it very good. I also mixed my stuff in as well so not to be too drastic with change. She is 41 grams today. Happy as can be!! Thank you guys so much for the right tips i hope i can get her on track

[Squeaks]

Ok guys little girl (Honey) has been on esbiliac powdered formula for almost a week. She transitioned Beautifully... One thing i have noticed is she is not gaining alot of weight though she has been stuck at 38 grams since transition. Her poo is now brown and not golden colored but it is solid. Her tail has fluffed out more and she has gotten way more active. I have not introduced any solid foods yet besides henry blocks which she nibbles on but doesnt seem to care for them. Any suggestions?

[CritterMom]

You can boost the esbilac with add in ingredients. You want first to find some full fat yogurt - vanilla is okay. Stoneyfield makes some. Then get a small carton of heavy cream - the stuff right next to the half and half, not the whipping cream in a can.

I like to be really conservative when I transition formulas or add new stuff to them. I would start by adding the yogurt first, very gradually. You will eventually be working your way up to 2 parts water, 1 part esbilac powder, 1/2 part yogurt and 1/2 part heavy cream, but as I said, I would gradually add in first the yogurt over a day or two, and then the cream, also very slowly over a day or two until you are at the final concentration. It also makes it yummier and you may see a difference in enthusiasm. When she gets to the age where she is chewing up and spitting out a syringe per feeding you will appreciate the understatement I used there. :grin2

There is a product that Fox Valley sells called Ultraboost which is basically the heavy cream dehydrated down into a powder.

BTW, the heavy cream is okay in smallish quantities like this despite being from COWS, which is one of the reasons that the scalded milk recipe is such a disaster, BECAUSE, as odd as it may seem, the higher the milkfat in a dairy product, the lower the lactose, which is the digestive problem with cow's milk. Skim milk has the highest lactose. The heavy cream has the least!

I did mention to go slowly, right? LOL...

[HRT4SQRLS]

More than likely the brown poop is due to the small amount of block she is nibbling.

At this point I wouldn’t be concerned about the reluctance to eat the block. If she starts enthusiastically eating the block she will take less formula and eventually start to self wean. You do not want her to wean. She needs the formula to grow that tiny body. I have raised babies on exclusively Esbilac and they grew fine but when they need a boost like Honey does, adding the yogurt, heavy cream or Ultraboost as CritterMom recommended is the way to go. Take heed to her advice to add any of these slowly. You don’t want to turn those perfect solid, brown poops to diarrhea. :tilt

[Squeaks]

Thank you guys so much i will take her block out so she doesn't self wean. I do have some heavy cream in carton still. I will add a little in to her formula!! Thank you again

[CritterMom]

Thank you guys so much i will take her block out so she doesn't self wean. I do have some heavy cream in carton still. I will add a little in to her formula!! Thank you again

Just a teeny bit at first. It is rich.

[Squeaks]

Ok guys so since adding heavy cream just a tiny bit she is up to 43 grams. She has been doing good, but this morning I had noticed her eyes were a little watery she ate 5cc and peed and pooped. No bloating. This afternoon when i went to feed her she still had watery eyes and has been rubbing her face on anything she can. I have not done anything different have not given her nothing but formula. But she only ate 1cc. Any ideas? Is she trying to self wean? She will be 10 weeks Tuesday.

[Squeaks]

310022 here is current picture.

[Squeaks]

Update:
Just tried to feed again she did take 3cc but she vomitted some up. Shes very squinty eyed and not as active she seems to want to put her head down alot. Please Help. Im not sure what to do. She did poop and pee, she isnt dehydrated i did the pinch test. She is not clicking so i dont think its pneumonia

[HRT4SQRLS]

I don't know what's going on but it is concerning. She looks like a failure to thrive baby.

Is she still on a heating pad? (On LOW under half of the bin) She is so tiny I doubt she can self regulate her body temperature. She doesn't need to be using calories to maintain body temp.

I wonder what the eye rubbing is about?

[Squeaks]

Yes very concerning and yes she still is on heating pad half under. She hasnt rubbed her face since earlier now its just putting her head down.

[HRT4SQRLS]

How often do you feed her?

Is she anxious to eat or does she need encouragement to eat?

[Squeaks]

She gets fed at 7 3 and 10:30 5ccs every time and shes usually very eager to eat. She was great this morning eating.. Didnt want to eat at 3 but then ate a little at 1030. She stopped wanting suck when i switched her to esbiliac but still took drops at a time no problem.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I wonder if smaller portions more often would help. 8 hours is a long interval for a 43g baby. I know she is 10 weeks and 8 hrs would be appropriate for her age but the weight is way off.

She displays the characteristics of malnutrition. On the scalded milk she would just fade away but I'm concerned that the Esbilac isn't turning her around. It is a complete formula so she should be gaining but she isn't. It's as thought she isn't absorbing nutrients. I just read about malnutrition and it discussed lack of micronutrients. I'm reaching here but maybe you should give her a 1/2 block to nibble on. The Henry's are loaded with vitamins and minerals. Maybe the block will provide something she needs in terms of micronutrients.

Of course, we don't want her to wean but she needs more than she's getting. Really concerned.

[HRT4SQRLS]

You mention not clicking so that's good. You can put her up to your ear to listen. Sometimes the clicking is very faint.

Just as a precaution do you have any antibiotics available in case they are needed later?
It's always good to be prepared.

[Squeaks]

I will try to feed less more often and see if that helps. And I agree its as if she isnt thriving off esbiliac. I will put half a block in with her and hopes she will nibble it again. Yes i hold her to my ear alot and listen all the time and she is silent besides when she grunts at me lol I dont have any antibiotics i try to do all natural stuff. I do plan on ordering more collidial silver. Should i try a drop of that. I use in my dogs dish to help keep their water clean and it helps keep their systems clean of any bacteria.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I'm not really familiar with the colloidal silver so I can't comment on it.

I remember you saying she didn't care for the Henry's block. I guess you probably bought the Henry's High Protein block for babies. I haven't had good luck with them eating the high protein block. Some rehabbers use them and say their babies love them because that's all they know about. Mine... not so much. I buy the Picky Eater block. Mine won't eat the adult block either.

[Squeaks]

Ok new symptoms... She is now bloated but is peeing and pooping she had some solid and some real mushy. Her face and eyes were sticky.. I soaked her in warm water and rubbed her belly cleaned her face up. She is grinding her teeth (could she be not feeling good from molars coming in)? She did eat 3cc and a i gave her a little pedialyte ... She peed some more.

[HRT4SQRLS]

If she is still pooping it might be due to the malnutrition like the bloated belly you see with starving children in undeveloped countries. If that’s the case the bloated belly would be due to fluid in the tissue.
I found an article that explains the mechanism. https://borgenproject.org/malnourished-people-bloated-stomachs/

Make 100% certain she is still pooping. Bloat caused by trapped gas is deadly. If you think it might be due to gas you could give her baby gas drops (simethacone) but I’m afraid it might not be that.

I am getting very worried about her. In the article I caught the part about protein being a macromolecule and therefore would be more difficult to absorb from the GI tract.

[Nancy in New York]

She gets fed at 7 3 and 10:30 5ccs every time and shes usually very eager to eat. She was great this morning eating.. Didnt want to eat at 3 but then ate a little at 1030. She stopped wanting suck when i switched her to esbiliac but still took drops at a time no problem.

I mean NO offense/disrespect as we have seen this on the board before.
We are just trying to figure this out, and help.
Are you sure that she is given 5 ccs. and not .5 ccs. every feeding?

See the blue arrow below? Are you feeding her 5 of those at every feeding, or are
you feeding .5 of where the red arrow is?

https://photos.smugmug.com/A-syringe/i-4HWTNLG/0/25020b77/S/i-xkDsGPT-L-S.jpg


Here is the feeding chart below. We feed 5-7 % of their body weight.

For a little one that weighs 43 grams, she should be getting 2 to 3 ccs. every feeding.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JsmjnNr/0/3db216cd/X2/i-JsmjnNr-X2.jpg

[Nancy in New York]

One more thing. Is this the formula that you bought?
If so, make it up with really HOT water. Let it sit in
the refrig ~ 4-6 hours stirring occassionally so it all dissolves.

310047

[Squeaks]

Yes I am feeding the correct amount she was doing just fine eating 5cc every feeding for the past week or so. And yes I am feeding esbiliac powdered with probiotics and prebiotics. I just feel like since i switched to esbiliac that it is not settling right with her. I do mix it up with hot water and stir every so often so all clumps get out... I even strain it with a very fine strainer.

She seemed better around 3 and I only let her have 3ccs even though she wanted more. She pooped and peed. Her eyes are still bothering me and her though... Is there any kind of eye drop i can try in her eyes? There is no cloudiness. But she has been chattering her teeth since this eye thing happened. Its not clicking noise its like a grinding noise.

I tried a rehab again and the lady is seriously getting on my last nerve.. Wont help me.. Says I never called her. I sent her screenshots of my calls to her where we actually talked on the phone. Im practically begging in my message this morning to help me find someone to take care of her and she has not responded to me.

All I have is you guys and I so badly want whats best for her. I just am not experienced at all for squirrels. Its illegal to have them and not be licensed or have a permit in Michigan... but i cant just let her go on her own.

[HRT4SQRLS]

You’re doing everything possible. Please don’t give up. I have an idea if you’re willing to try.
Some rehabbers feel a 50% Esbilac with 50% FoxValley 20:50 is superior to the Esbilac alone.

Maybe something is still missing as far as micronutrients. If the Esbilac isn’t doing maybe the combo will. FoxValley 20:50 can be ordered from Henry’s.

You are her best chance. Did she nibble the block?

You could use a saline drop to moisten the eyes but I would be reluctant to use anything else.

[Squeaks]

Im definitely not giving up, I just dont know at all what Im doing. But I thank you guys for trying to help me get her better. She truly is such a sweetheart. I really hope she makes it through this. I will order fox valley tomorrow after i deposit money. Thank you!!

[Squeaks]

And no she didnt touch the block... Maybe is should try some for picky eaters?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Make sure you get the FoxValley 20:50.

Do NOT get the FV 32:40. Sorry just wanted to emphasize that. :tilt

Yes, I think she would eat the Picky Eater block.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Sometimes putting the block in the microwave for 3-4 seconds makes it more appetizing.

Maybe a dot of peanut butter or drop of coconut oil would help as well. I’m reaching here. :)

[Squeaks]

Thank you I will give that all a shot!! I really appreciate all your help hrt4sqrls:serene

[Nancy in New York]

She seemed better around 3 and I only let her have 3ccs even though she wanted more.


She was doing well with the 5 ccs, and now I'm rethinking this one.
I know the rule of thumb, but your baby is so tiny, and she wanted more.
I wonder if you should stick with the 5 ccs each feeding. :thinking

What do others think?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Nancy, the baby was eating every 8 hrs so I suggested a little less, more often (reduce interval) so the amount would be about the same. Mom is going to get goat milk and yogurt today. She already has heavy cream.

[Nancy in New York]

Nancy, the baby was eating every 8 hrs so I suggested a little less, more often (reduce interval) so the amount would be about the same. Mom is going to get goat milk and yogurt today. She already has heavy cream.

Perfect! Thank you.
I totally missed that part about every 8 hours.

[Squeaks]

Do squirrels get colds?? Or allergies? Her eyes are almost shut but she opens them... And they appear sticky like pink eye almost. She also has gunky nose. Any ideas on a cold? Shes very light sensitive also.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Oh dear that poor baby! :( I don’t think of squirrels getting colds as in viruses but they do get bacterial infections like Mycoplasma or Bordatella.

Also, allergies is always a possibility.

Any luck finding a rehabber?

[Squeaks]

No luck at all... Is there any meds I can give her to at least try? I feel horrible for her. In the mean time I went to two different local grocery stores and holy crap goats milk is hard to find. I think they sell it at a local pet store but it was closed by the time I thought of it. So im going to go on a goat milk hunt tomorrow after work!! :)

[HRT4SQRLS]

Some grocery stores sell powdered goat milk. Your best bet will probably be concentrated goat milk in a can. It should be with the other canned milk products like evaporated milk. It is very hard to find fresh goat milk but I did find one store.

The concentrated goat milk in a can is diluted 1:1 with water.

[Squeaks]

Lol ahhh thats probably why I had no luck I was searching all over in the refrigerated sections!!! I did not even think to look there. I know i seen it at that pet store and its fresh in the fresh pet refrigerator.

[SammysMom]

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