Bloating + Diarrhea 4-5 week old

[Nctova]

My little guy Langley has been suffering from bloating & constipation for a couple days.. prior to today!
He was not pooping regularly & had a bloated tummy so I began giving him some infant gas x drops which helped with some of the gas but I was weary of giving him too much. He still wasn’t pooping so I started feeding plain water between feedings. This still didn’t help so I added in some apple juice..
I’m thinking that’s when the problems started.
He was pooping every once in awhile during the above steps, but I could tell he was still backed up.

After a couple feedings of water and apple juice yesterday he made a couple nice poops which were very light in color.. then this morning the diarrhea started. It’s light yellow and very watery.

I’m wondering if the apple juice is the cause? I have not given him any today & don’t plan to again.

Also of note: I began transitioning him to FV 20/50 yesterday. Mixing in a small amount with his normal esbilac puppy replacer powder. Could this be to blame as well? I’ve been very gradual with it & I was hoping it would help with some of his digestive issues altogether.
He’s around 4-5 weeks old & without all the bloat he weighs around 47 grams. I’ve had him since he was a few days old.

Any help or suggestions would be great.

Thank you :)

[Nctova]

I’ve been feeding him about 2.5 cc every 3 hours.

[Javarat]

Standard treatment for bloat is to stop ALL formula.. and do small hourly feedings of water, tummy massages, and stimulate to pee and poop.
Putting his bottom in warm water while stimulating can help.
Also infant GasX can help.

The idea is to let water break up the crud blocking his intestines, so it can move through.
After a while you will see some diarrhea, but you want to still continue just water feedings.

There is a step by step process of how to move back to formula.. which some more experienced rehabbers can post, but you can stop the formula and start the water now.

One thing that can start bloat at this age is dehydration because of over heating. As they grow fur the amount of heat they used to get may be too much. Check his body temperature and if his paws and bedding feel moist (sweating). Also if he is spreading out tummy down in his bedding it means he feels too hot and is assuming a 'heat dumping' pose (like a hot squirrel does on pavement). But that pose may actually increase how much heat he is getting. A squirrel that does not feel too hot will normally lay on their side, or back. We put the heating pad under half the tub so they can move off it... but sometimes they will not (out of fear, or just because they are trying to 'ride out the heat wave'). In that case we need to add more materials between the pad and tub to reduce the heat.

[Nctova]

Thank you for the quick reply.
I never thought about overheating. I will test that out and see if lowering it a bit may help. I have seen him do the “heat dumping” pose!

I’ll stop the formula and feed only water every hour. I hate seeing him hungry but I hope that helps.. Also, since he had some pretty bad diarrhea this is still the recommended protocol?

[Javarat]

Our primary concern is the bloat.
Diarrhea can cause dehydration, but since you are only giving him water he should be fine.

[Javarat]

Here is a copy/paste of a posting by Spanky about treating bloat:

Here is a protocol developed by Duckman, one of our most dedicated, knowledgeable and greatly respected members. I have edited this a bit from his original post for readability but will include the link below to the original thread that contains the post.

The trick seems to be getting in as much water, as quickly as possible, once you see and feel the hardness in the belly. Not sugar water or Pedialyte, but plain water.

Do this every hour and ensure you stimulate after each, for 2 reasons:
1. You have to get that water out of the bladder, and it will burst if you don't.
2. You want that water to start working on the crud in the belly.

After 8-10 hours, you should start seeing some movement out of the bowel (they will continue to poop, but you will start to see it more watery, which is what you want). At that time, start introducing diluted formula at the ratio of 25% Esbilac, 75% water. Feed this for the first half day.

The second half day, bump up the ration to 50% Esbilac, 50% water 50/50.

Third day move to 75% Esbilac, 25% water.
Fourth day go to full strength formula; the blockage should be gone!

So far, Duckman has had tremendous success with this protocol and others that have followed are getting great results as well. One note of caution: Check my pinkies after every feeding, so see if their bellies are hard or squishy. It is suggested everyone get in the habit of checking them after every feeding as habit and you can't go wrong in catching them before they bloat up. Once they take on that angry red color on their bellies (this is when their system goes septic), they are gone and can't be saved, so the trick is to catch them before this happens (hence, getting in the habit to see if their tummies are hard or not).You can, of course, speed up this process if you see significant shrinkage of the tummy and it gets soft like a water balloon.
This protocol is for a baby that is not pooping at all, and you are getting some diarrhea out right now.
The main things to look for are appetite and tummy size/hardness.
A healthy baby will be starving at each feeding, and the tummy should go from full to about half full by the next feeding.

[Nancy in New York]

Also of note: I began transitioning him to FV 20/50 yesterday. Mixing in a small amount with his normal esbilac puppy replacer powder. Could this be to blame as well? I’ve been very gradual with it & I was hoping it would help with some of his digestive issues altogether.
He’s around 4-5 weeks old & without all the bloat he weighs around 47 grams. I’ve had him since he was a few days old.


Thank you :)

Just double checking, as some people get the formula's confused.
The formula you're using is the Esbilac and NOT the Pet Lac, correct?

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fbcDH6c/0/5fb600fb/S/i-fbcDH6c-S.jpg............https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VpVv8FQ/0/68fb4e8c/S/i-VpVv8FQ-S.jpg

[Nctova]

His diarrhea has stopped. Still no poop. Acting very hungry but still full bloated tummy so I’m only giving him water.. but, now he isn’t peeing!

Yes I have been feeding him the proper esbilac with whey.. transitioning to FV 20/50.

Please help! I’m worried!!
He’s squeaking a lot.. possibly in pain from not being able to use the bathroom?

I have given him soaks & rubs.. nothing.

[Nctova]

It’s odd that he hasn’t peed in several water feedings.. he usually pees every time.

[Nctova]

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[Javarat]

Is he squeaking when he is not being handled? Or just when handled, like "stop messing with me!"?

Before, he was peeing once per 4 hours when stimulated, but you are stimulating him hourly.
So it may just be that the water is in the intestines (where we want it) and not moving to the bladder as fast.

Don't overdo the water... stop at less than 1/4th the amount you have been feeding him.
We want to replace the amount of formula he is normally getting with water... but not overfill him.

I have also noticed that while doing this treatment they will stop peeing for a bit.

You could try using a finger dipped in warm water to 'prime the pump' and get him to pee.

Acting hungry is a very good sign. It means he has not moved into the 'nausea' phase of bloat, and it makes it easier to get some fluids into him.

[Nctova]

I can hear him squeaking in his blanky. Almost like little cherps..

It’s pretty frequent too.

I’m scared to keep giving him water because he’s not peeing & his belly is getting so big. But I will just try to relax and wait another hour.. ugh I’m so worried! I’ve heard about the bladder bursting in some cases & that sounds awful!!

It is comforting to hear that maybe the water is going to the right place though. & yes, he is definitely hungry.. he’s suckling on his fingers!

[Javarat]

If you are concerned about the water, cut back on how much you are giving him.
The 'chirping' might be him calling for food. They make a sound like a bird chirping to call their mama.

[Javarat]

If you can, a profile picture to see how much his tummy is sticking out, a closer picture to see the color, and a closeup of his butt to check the shape around it.

[Nctova]

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[Nctova]

Praise the lord he just peed. Still no poop though.

[Javarat]

Would you say his belly looks uniformly pink, or is there any red or purple?
When you feel his tummy, do you feel any hard spots or lumps?
If you feel anything like that, try soft massage on those spots.

He is strong, and acting hungry... which are very good things.
Babies with bad bloat normally refuse to eat or drink..and shove the syringe away while fussing.
Having an appetite means he is not close to a critical bloat stage.
And if he was peeing a few hours ago.. He will probably pee if he needs to.

While stimulating his anus... see if it opens up like he is trying to poop.
Also try downward strokes with a wet finger on each side of the penis towards the anus.
I have had some at this stage where I could see dry poop in the anus, and flicking his anus with my fingernail helped them pop it out.

[Nctova]

There is some purple. Along his left side..

What is that?

When it comes to having him poop, it usually happens when he pees. While I’m stimulating his pee pee. Because when I try to stimulate his anus, he tightens up..
right now he is so squirmy because he’s hungry it’s hard to keep him still enough to do much stimulating at all.
I’m giving him a rest after he peed & will give a little warm soak here soon before the next hours water.

[Javarat]

Duckman's original post about this procedure was concentrating on how to do this on pinkies (less than two weeks old).
So Duckman stressed getting the water out of the bladder. Because a pinkie has a very small bladder and only pees when stimulated.
Your baby has a very big bladder, and is old enough to pee when he wants to.
If, after about 4 water feedings he is not pooping yet... it should be safe to drop back to every other hour. To let him (and you) rest a bit.

[Javarat]

Also, If you have not done so in 6 hours.. give him a small dose of infant Gasx.

I am not seeing any dramatic discoloration in the pictures.

[Nctova]

Thank you so much for all your help. I will report back in the morning with how he does throughout the night. I feel much better having a plan of what to do.. thank you.
Praying for poop!

[Nctova]

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[Nctova]

This was the photo that showed some discoloring

[Nctova]

Still no poop.. :sadness

He now doesn’t want the plain water.. he pushes it away after a few sips.

He’s acting so hungry for formula though..!

Also,
I did see a tiny tiny tiny speck of poop inside his anus this morning.. I got it out but nothing other than that.

[Javarat]

You may have to push a little water in him, pause, and then do it again.
Continue the gentle tummy massage (especially on that left side) and the stimulus to pee and poop.
Keep me updated on his urine output and how often you are stimulating.
I know he is hungry.. but we don't want to put more formula in until we get the tummy down some.
Did you give him some more GasX during the night?
You are using just plain water.. not electrolyte, right?
(Electrolyte encourages the body to pull water out of the intestines.. and we want to do the opposite)

[Nctova]

Got some water in him.
He peed some and had a little gas and one tiny tiny bit of yellow loose stool.

Yes I gave him gas x about 3 hours ago. One drop. Would more be okay?

And yes I’m only doing plain warm water.

[Nctova]

He just pooped two small little yellow semi soft stools. I’m relieved something happened but I know he has A LOT more to come through..

Will let him rest for an hour. He’s very active still & scratching along the box usually before the hour is up to let me know he wants foood.

[Javarat]

Something coming through is a good sign, especially if it has some consistency.
If you only gave him a 'drop' of Gasx you can give him more. I normally dose at about .15 to .2 ml, which is like 3 or 4 'drops'.
It sounds like you are doing great and we are progressing.
He may get more grumpy and noisy as he gets closer to pooping a lot.

[Nctova]

Still no poop :(

Gave him about .2 ml of gas x with some warm water.

I can tell he wants to poop but it just won’t come out.

[Nctova]

Langley can’t die from this protocol right? Like starve to death?

I’m just so worried that he hasn’t eaten anything :(

[GoldenEyes]

Would you consider taking him to a veterinarian? I don't know how much it would cost or whether the vet would be able to alleviate the bloat/constipation but there is a wildlife-friendly vet in Raleigh, NC-Dr. Dan Johnson. www.avianandexotic.com

[Javarat]

Langley can’t die from this protocol right? Like starve to death?

I’m just so worried that he hasn’t eaten anything :(He is well fed and strong.
We won't push the water diet long enough get anywhere near starvation.

If you have gotten any more poop put of him... start introducing diluted formula at the ratio of 25% Esbilac, 75% water.
(This basically breaks down to 1 part Esbilac powder.. and 11 parts water)
The taste should help you to get him to drink it.

Later this evening (in about four or five hours) change to 1 part Esbilac powder.. and 5 parts water.

[Nctova]

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[Nctova]

What is this dark coloration in his tummy?
I’ve been massaging it & sometimes it will move to the other side..

He has only pooped one more time just recently, since this morning. Not a lot.

I will give him one more feeding of water in about an hour. After that I think I’m going to heavily dilute some formula for him

[Javarat]

What is this dark coloration in his tummy?
I’ve been massaging it & sometimes it will move to the other side..

He has only pooped one more time just recently, since this morning. Not a lot.

I will give him one more feeding of water in about an hour. After that I think I’m going to heavily dilute some formula for himIt may be a pressure point, like an air bubble, if it moves around.

Start introducing diluted formula at the ratio of 25% Esbilac, 75% water.
(This basically breaks down to 1 part Esbilac powder.. and 11 parts water)
The taste should help you to get him to drink it.

Later this evening change to 1 part Esbilac powder.. and 5 parts water.

[Nctova]

His bloat is getting worse. Like really bad. I’m so concerned.. he doesn’t even want me to help him pee or try to poop. He squirms every time I try to stimulate him..

Everything is getting worse; not better.

[Javarat]

I am calling some people to see if they can jump in with more ideas on this.
How is he reacting to the diluted formula? Does he still act hungry?
How often are you feeding and stimulating right now?

[Spanky]

His bloat is getting worse. Like really bad. I’m so concerned.. he doesn’t even want me to help him pee or try to poop. He squirms every time I try to stimulate him..

Everything is getting worse; not better.

When you stimulate, wrap him up in fleece to keep him warm and feeling secure. I find the best stimulation technique for fussy squirrels is simply a wet fingertip (warm water).

Looks like you are reverting back to Esbilac without the Fox Valley... I'd stick with Esbilac until after his eyes open.

He is not clicking when he breaths is he? Hold him to your ear like a phone and listen for a consistent click sound.

In reading through this thread I do not get a good sense of how often you are giving him formula and / or fluids, so clarifying that would be helpful. Very helpful.

[Nctova]

Yes..
all he wants is formula. He’s sucking air, his fingers, the box.. everything.

I gave him a tiny bit of diluted mix as you recommended. Thank you.
Surprisingly he actually pooped a little afterwards..

I’m going to check on him in about 2 hours just to give him a break..
I’ve been giving him water every hour & a half or so throughout the day.. but only about 1.5cc or so..

I stimulate him every time I do that & sometimes in between if I gave him a warm soak & he didn’t do anything..

I’m not sure what I’m going to do in about 45 minutes, when the next water or diluted formula session will be, but I am very stressed seeing him so bloated. It’s hard to keep giving him fluids when he looks so “full”. His purple area on his tummy hasn’t gone down.

Also of note: (could be because of frequent stimulation) sometimes when I try to make him pee he doesn’t but some little tiny drops are sort of flying out.

[Javarat]

I have some other eyes watching this thread to make sure we cover the bases, and so you are getting more than just my input. (note Spanky's post up above.. Spanky is a godsend to baby squirrels)
You are doing a great job... it is normal if you feel panicky right now. I feel stressed out every time I have one like this, even after years of doing it.

Some other rehabbers feel we may now need to introduce more solids to stimulate him to push solids out.
(Like how he pooped a little after you gave him some diluted formula).
The blockage may be loosened.. but he does not yet feel a need to poop it out.

So... on the next feeding, use a 50/50 mix of Esbilac and water. If you mix it straight up that would be 1 part powdered Esbilac.. and 5 parts water.
Let him have a decent feeding of it. Don't let him overeat, but let him get closer to a normal feeding.
And let him (and you) rest for four hours, with no feedings or stimulation.
Then try a stimulation and then a feeding.
Use a wet finger or cloth.. he is probably feeling a little sore by now.

Let's continue that pattern for the rest of the night.. 4 hour feedings of 50/50.

If we can get some decent poop out of him by tomorrow.. we will step that up to a 75/25 mix.

On the Fox Valley.. I don't think it caused this problem (as it started before you introduced him to it).
A mix of Esbilac and FV 20/50 works well.. because it has both pro-biotics and also the FV flavor and mix.
I normally do not swap them from straight Esbilac to the mix until after their eyes open.. when they poop on their own.
So don't toss out the Fox Valley.

[Nctova]

A huge thank you to you & spanky both! You’ve both been a godsend during this awful time..

I just gave him more forumula with strength as you suggested.. about 2ccs. He absolutely loved it AND he pooped after.. I’m astonished!

I guess that was right.. he wasn’t able to poop without some formula in his tummy?

It’s going to be hard to leave him be for 4 hours.. but I will. I’ll check back in to report how he is doing. Langley & I thank you for your support & any prayers for his full poop passage would be appreciated :)

Also, I know the FV didn’t cause this. I have some ideas as to what it may have been.. like you suggested maybe too hot causing constipation. But also, ever since I found him at a couple days old, he’s been a “super sucker” as in very very eager to eat & goes into a trance of sorts.. not like guppy mouth but just sucking very hard & I think he has been gradually pulling in air from the syringe.. maybe. Could be a combination of things..
I am using the miracle mini nipple & the o ring 3cc syringe..

Anyways, I hope this passes and I can get him steady on the new FV formula soon.

[Nctova]

Okay so..

Last night I gave him a feeding and he pooped two yellow semi solid stools.

4 hours later at around 2:30 am I gave him another feeding and no poop.

This morning I gave him a feeding and he pooped a two small stools semi solid but darker yellow.

He is still very bloated and that purple coloration inside his tummy is very full.

[island rehabber]

He is well fed and strong.
We won't push the water diet long enough get anywhere near starvation.

If you have gotten any more poop put of him... start introducing diluted formula at the ratio of 25% Esbilac, 75% water.
(This basically breaks down to 1 part Esbilac powder.. and 11 parts water)
The taste should help you to get him to drink it.

Later this evening (in about four or five hours) change to 1 part Esbilac powder.. and 5 parts water.

With all due respect and sorry for butting in here, but the ratio of 25% Esbilac and 75% water should be

ONE part Esbilac powder to THREE parts water.

Full strength is one part powder to TWO parts water.
Any mixture of 11 parts water is so diluted, the baby is not getting any nutrition at all.

ok, carry on and we are all hoping and praying for this baby's recovery!

[Javarat]

With all due respect and sorry for butting in here, but the ratio of 25% Esbilac and 75% water should be

ONE part Esbilac powder to THREE parts water.

Full strength is one part powder to TWO parts water.
Any mixture of 11 parts water is so diluted, the baby is not getting any nutrition at all.

ok, carry on and we are all hoping and praying for this baby's recovery!
Island rehabber... This is from Duckman's protocol for bloat.
It steps from 25% Esbilac (Formula) to 50% and then 75%... in water.
We are currently at the 50% stage. Half Esbilac formula and half water. Which would be 1 part powder and 2 parts water (the formula) plus an equal amount of water (three parts). So that would total out to one part powder and five parts water.
The next part would be 75% stage.. (which I doubt Duckman meant as 3 parts powder and 1 part water). So that would be the 11am feeding.. of one part powder and four parts water.

[Nctova]

I have been giving a mix of 1.5 tbsp of esbilac with 6 tbsp of water.. still heavily diluted but I did want him to get some nutrients..

[Javarat]

Nctova... Go ahead and step up to the 75% formula mix at the 11am feeding... one part powder to three parts water. (not four as I said earlier)
Also give him another dose of GasX.. and try submerging his bottom half in warm water when massaging and stimulating to poop.
I would limit feedings to once per four hours.. but you can try stimulating every other hour.

The purple area does worry me. That would indicate pressure. Is it still about the same color or darker or reddish?
How is his appetite?

[Javarat]

Oh... Check all of his bedding to make sure he did not poop in there.
If there is any poop.. clean it out so we can easily spot new poop.

[Nctova]

He did have a little poop on his bottom last time I check him..
his appetite is still very much present.


I think he is more bloated now than he has been which is extremely worrisome. The main area of bloat is the darker area.. is that his intestines or his stomach or his bladder?? It’s a dark purplish blue.

I will give him some more gas x.. btw it is an off brand but still the seminthecone (sp?) drops.. just wanted to note that.

He barely lets me stimulate him.. it’s almost like right as he’s about to maybe poop he squirms out of my grip like he doesn’t want it to happen! So frustrating :(

[Spanky]

Is the Esbilac being mixed up ahead of time (1 part powder to 2 parts water) to allow it to better dissolve for several hours (in the fridge)? It is important to mix up hours ahead of time so that the powder has more time to dissolve. Not mixing ahead makes it much harder to digest.

You can further dilute a small portion of the already mixed formula just prior to feeding. So if you are wanting to feed 75%, take out (for example) 15ml of the "full strength formula" and add 5ml of water to that for that feeding (or use cool / cold water and use that for a couple feedings).

[Javarat]

Where are you located in North Carolina?
I'm wondering if we know any experienced rehabbers near you.

I would do some stimulation directly on his anus and the area just above it.. I know he does not like it but I get better results with a rubbing motion from just above it across it.
I know what you mean by stimulating him to pee then results him pooping. My boys are pretty much the same way.. once pressure comes off the bladder it then lets the poop come out.
I think the feeling of warm urine across the anus also helps stimulate the pooping.

But right now he may be resisting the motions that will make him poop because it hurts to poop.

Try different areas on him and different motions.. see if you can find any motion that makes his anus open into a round circle.
If you can find a motion that does that then concentrate on that.
If you get a poop that comes almost out but stops try a little flicking motion to help pop it out.

[Nctova]

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[Nctova]

Yes I mix the esbilac and let it sit for several hours. Sometimes it’s not always as long as I’d like but for the most part I do my best to keep it rotated and able to sit for several hours.

I’m located in the outer banks.

Spanky- are you saying when diluting the formula further I should feed him with cool water?

[Javarat]

Near what city in the outer banks?

[Nctova]

I held him up to the window light and I can almost see the liquid that’s filling that area.. it’s either water or gas it looks like clear.. could his pee be blocked some way? I know he is peeing but no where near what he should be considering all the water from yesterday

[Nctova]

Nags Head, N.C.

[Spanky]

Spanky- are you saying when diluting the formula further I should feed him with cool water?

No. What I was trying to say is do not add hot water to already mixed formula to dilute it and then use that batch of formula more than one feeding (never reuse warmed formula).

You can dilute a smaller batch of formula with cold water (similar to the temperature of the refrigerated formula) and use that (un-warmed) formula for several feedings.

Any formula that has been warmed up but not fed to the baby should always discard. Never reuse previously warmed formula.

Most of use use a hot cup of water and place syringes with formula in there for 60 seconds or so to warm for feeding.

Edit: Those gas drops are just fine.

[Nctova]

Well what about this.. something I’ve never thought of:
When I initially mix the powder and water I use hot water thinking it will mix it better before I put it in the fridge.. is this bad??

I do not heat and reheat formula. Always just take out what I need and keep the rest cold.

[Nancy in New York]

Well what about this.. something I’ve never thought of:
When I initially mix the powder and water I use hot water thinking it will mix it better before I put it in the fridge.. is this bad??

I do not heat and reheat formula. Always just take out what I need and keep the rest cold.

I always use HOT water and then I let it sit on the counter for about 1/2 hour or so,
mixing with a whisk every 5 minutes, then I put it in the refrig.
Before filling the syringes I also give it a good mix (actually I shake mine),
and draw up the formula from the bottom (meaning put your syringe
all the way to the bottom of the container and then pull up), so you are not drawing up air bubbles.

[Spanky]

I do not heat and reheat formula. Always just take out what I need and keep the rest cold.

Yes, this is the key part...


I always use HOT water and then I let it sit on the counter for about 1/2 hour or so...

Yes, Nancy is correct about initially mixing with HOT water.

I was trying to say (apparently not very clearly :embar ) is that when diluting formula do not add hot water to previously refrigerated formula and then place back into the refrigerator.. for the same reasons we do not reheat formula.

[Javarat]

How did he do on the 11am feeding, with appetite and poop?

Did you find any poop in the bedding?

[Nctova]

11 am feeding he was starving.. scarfed it down. No poop after. Haven’t seen any on bedding

[Nctova]

Could this be a urinary blockage? Or UTI??

[Javarat]

How much pee does he put out? Just a drop at a time, or does he occasionally stream a river?
Normally a UTI infection would be accompanied by nausea, lethargy, and a refusal to eat. But then so would intense bloating. Which is why it is so odd that he acts like he is starving.
Right now.. if his appetite is still good I would wait and see what a couple of 75% feedings and warm water bottom baths achieve.

I would be very interested in seeing an updated picture of his tummy to compare with yesterday's pics, if you can.

[Nctova]

It’s not like his normal gushing flow of pee.. I get a few drops.

He may be going in his bedding though. Before I fed him last time he was wet down there..

I’ll take some updated pictures soon.
Were you able to locate any nearby rehabbers?

[Javarat]

The closest one I have found so far (that I trust) was about 4 hours south of you. :(

Yes, one sign of UTI is wet bedding.
Let's see if Spanky recommends any meds...

[Nctova]

Yes please let me know Spanky. I could try to get some meds today!

[Nctova]

His eyes are opening ever so slightly. I hate that this is happening during his first glimpse of the real world :(

[Nctova]

I have some doxycycline. Not sure if that is ever used to treat UTI but that’s the only antibiotic I have on hand

[Nctova]

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Along with his tummy swollen his pee pee looks swollen and the area around it..

[Javarat]

Comparing picture to two days ago.. he looks almost the same.
There is about the same amount of purple.. like you said, it has shifted location.
And his tummy looks about as full.

How was his appetite, pee, and poop on the 3pm feeding?
Have you been doing stimulation with his bottom in a bowl of warm water?

[Nctova]

Update: I gave him some plain warm water between his 3 pm feeding and now. He didn’t do much of anything. I gave him a soak & put him back to bed.

Just now I finished a formula feeding with the mix I mentioned earlier. He was sucking on the blankets & box so I knew he was really hungry..

I gave him about 2ccs.. he pooped a small amount & finally peed a nice big gush!
Look at his belly & tell me if you think that what was causing most of the bloat..

[Nctova]

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[Nctova]

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[Spanky]

Yes please let me know Spanky. I could try to get some meds today!

I would try to find some Cipro (human med) or Baytril (animal med)... these are terrific meds to have on hand when raising baby squirrels. They treat Aspiration Pneumonia (AP) as well as UTI's.


I have some doxycycline. Not sure if that is ever used to treat UTI but that’s the only antibiotic I have on hand

What is the expiration date on the doxycycline? It is extremely important to heed the expiration date of this med, because unlike most other meds that simply become less and less potent with time, doxycycline (and as a general rule all "-cycline" meds) actually become dangerous and toxic! Always toss them once they have expired.


Along with his tummy swollen his pee pee looks swollen and the area around it..

It there any chance he might be self-suckling and causing his pee pee to swell? With him eating so eagerly and being hungry, he may be doing this to himself.

I would not suggest any meds right now. I would not worry about not getting poop every 4 hours right now either.... little guy has not been getting much substance the past few days, so there won't be much substance on the other end. As example, we sometimes get new intakes that do not poop for 2 or even 3 days... they are dehydrated, been away from mom for a while (so the tank is empty). We take time to hydrate them before giving formula... it takes time and consistency of feedings before consistency of pooping follows.

[Javarat]

That after peeing picture does look like a sudden decrease in size...
Comparing the 4pm and 6pm pictures side by side: (It may just be his posture)
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[Nctova]

I will try my best to get some Cipro or baytrill on hand in case things get worse.
My doxy is not expired until November. It’s 100mg doxycycline hyclate

I would rather not give him any meds either at this time. I just want to make sure that all my bases are covered if it came to that.

Thank you for the reply!
Please check my last post update.

[Spanky]

Update: I gave him some plain warm water between his 3 pm feeding and now. He didn’t do much of anything. I gave him a soak & put him back to bed.

Just now I finished a formula feeding with the mix I mentioned earlier. He was sucking on the blankets & box so I knew he was really hungry..

I gave him about 2ccs.. he pooped a small amount & finally peed a nice big gush!
Look at his belly & tell me if you think that what was causing most of the bloat..

How much water did you give him between 3PM and 6PM?

I cannot figure what the "mix mentioned earlier" is exactly.

His belly looks fine to me for a baby just being fed... I see a nice milk line. The 2ml however is a little on the low side for a 50gram squirrel (+/-).

I'd get him on an every 4 hour feeding schedule and feed a full 2.5ml feeding. At 50 gram they can get 2.5ml to 3.5ml each feeding... but increase slowly, not all at once (do not go from 2.0ml at 6PM to 3.5ML at 10PM... maybe 2.5ML at 10PM and take it from there).

[Nctova]

Is there a chance that too much water could cause him to have too much pressure and in turn not be able to pee normally?

I know that first protocol we had him on really made him bloat up but he was already bloated in the first place..

Just trying to pin point what is going on here

[Nctova]

I’ve been concerned to give him more than 2ccs of formula during this time because of his tummy size.. but I agree, he should be getting more now that it has gone down.

It may help push some stool out too if I can get some more solids in him..

I will gradually increase ccs throughout the evening.

I gave him about 1.2 cc of water earlier in between the 3 pm & 6 pm feeding.

The formula I mixed was 1 part esbilac 3.5 parts water.

[Javarat]

Since you are giving him some water between feedings, and are concerned about his bladder...
... change to regular formula (1 part Esbilac powder and 2 parts water) for the next (7pm?) feeding.

[Spanky]

The formula I mixed was 1 part Esbilac 3.5 parts water.

Is it correct to assume you started with your Esbilac originally mixed at 2 parts water and 1 part powder and then further diluted 1 part Esbilac 3.5 parts water?

[Nctova]

Well first I was giving him even heavier diluted mix when you first mentioned the 11 parts water.. I didn’t go that drastic but it was very diluted. So I remade a batch of 1 part powder 3.5 parts water.

I will mix up a fresh batch of regular formula (1 part powder 2 parts water) and feeding which would be at 9 or 930..

I fed him at 6.

[Nancy in New York]

Does he have a little bulge between his penis and his anus?

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MF3t7kG/0/637465f1/M/i-MF3t7kG-M.jpg

[Nctova]

Yes!

[Javarat]

This would be hard to determine from pictures.
Sometimes that bump sticks out, sometimes not.
It may just be a testicle sack.

Nctova would be able to tell by touch if it is a soft and lose like a testical sack, or feels hard and swollen like a hernia.

[Nctova]

Sometimes it is soft and squishy and other times it’s more firm..

I thought they were his testicles because they do move around sometimes.. should he already have those developed though?

[Nancy in New York]

Sometimes it is soft and squishy and other times it’s more firm..

I thought they were his testicles because they do move around sometimes.. should he already have those developed though?

Does it get bigger after he eats?
I looked back at some photos before he ate,
and it's there, but it looks smaller.
Has this grown since you first noticed it?

[Duckman]

First off, I want to clarify the bloat protocol. That is for a 0-10 day old pinkie that shows all the sand in it's belly (hard to the touch and grey looking at the milk line), not for a 4-5 week with diarrhea. The pinkie protocol is using already mixed Esbilac and adding the water to it as published. I will go in and correct that so it is clear.

This baby is not blocked up, especially if it has diarrhea. If the stool is still liquid, you can add pumpkin puree (with no additives). We use a pumpkin puree in the can, but we have also used baked pumpkin pureed in the blender. Once the poops solid up though, you have to reduce the amount of pumpkin over a couple of days, because if you just take them off, they will immediate (within a feeding or two) have runny poops again.

From the pictures I saw in this thread, I don't see any abnormal bloating myself (it looks like a good roundness that means they are well fed). If you suspect bloat though still, you can give them a small amount of Gas-X. I will let Spanky know the dosage and hopefully you can PM him for it.

I am sitting with about 20 squirrel babies here and we are getting in about 4-5 more a day. We are already over 100 babies taken in so far this spring and I have 3 emergencies coming in as I write this.

[Nctova]

It gets bigger if he is bloated it seems.. I’m not sure if it’s related to after he eats or not. I will keep a close eye on that from now on and report back.

I did notice since all these other issues started the area above his penis is larger too. Like a little swollen sack right above his pee pee. But it’s not there all the time..

[Nancy in New York]

It gets bigger if he is bloated it seems.. I’m not sure if it’s related to after he eats or not. I will keep a close eye on that from now on and report back.

I did notice since all these other issues started the area above his penis is larger too. Like a little swollen sack right above his pee pee. But it’s not there all the time..

I didn't notice that in the photo. :thinking
Duckman mentioned simethicone.
I think I saw the weight on your little one at ~48 grams, correct?
If so, you can give 0.11 mls of simethicone as needed.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2ZcxhN7/0/8ded992d/XL/i-2ZcxhN7-XL.jpg

[Javarat]

Yes, we have been dosing about .1 simethicone twice a day for the last 48 hours.

[Nctova]

Thank you Duckman..
I am sure you are busy as all get out with your hands full. Doing an angels work!
So no need to reply.

I don’t think he saw that the diarrhea was very short lived.. it has been bloating / constipiation problems ever since a small bout of diarrhea which I believe was caused by concentrate apple juice..

It does surprise me though that he didn’t think Langley looked bloated.. maybe I am over exaggerating? And maybe all that water from the hourly feedings made him really get swollen up in the bladder?

I don’t know and now I’m starting to second guess a lot..
I will check back in after this next feeding around 9 or 930. I’m hoping for poop!!!!

[Duckman]

It is very common for the stomach to become bigger, when you feed them. That is normal. Can you post a picture of his belly, when it looks larger than normal? That would help everyone determine if he just has a normal well fed belly or if it is bloated.

As for the swollen area, if it is above and slightly to the left of his penis, that is his bladder. It would be a good indication that he needs to be stimulated. I am assuming you do stimulate him after each feeding. Correct? (not meaning to ask a stupid question, but if I don't ask, I don't know for sure!) A picture of that would help as well.


It gets bigger if he is bloated it seems.. I’m not sure if it’s related to after he eats or not. I will keep a close eye on that from now on and report back.

I did notice since all these other issues started the area above his penis is larger too. Like a little swollen sack right above his pee pee. But it’s not there all the time..

[Duckman]

I just realized that I was giving you the bladder location from his point of view. It will be on the right side looking at him, not the left side. It is on his left side.

[Javarat]

The determination of bloat was because his tummy was maxed out, he was not pooping, he was peeing very little, and the tummy was not reducing between feedings.
He had only pooped a few pellets in several days.
Keeper used hydration and apple juice to get poop... which caused a brief episode of diarrhea.. and then no poop at all.
I advised water only for a while and stimulation, and have been reintroducing formula in steps.
Only reduction in stomach size was at last feeding.. when he suddenly peed a lot.

He is currently on full strength formula, at four hour feedings, and keeper said he is just starting to open his eyes.
I am hoping that we will see his tummy start to decrease and increase between feedings, and regular poop at each feeding.

[Javarat]

I am also hoping that with four hour feedings the keeper will get some sleep.

[Nctova]

Thank you Javarat. Very well explaination of all that has been said & done here with Langley.

Here are some photos I posted previously of his bloat. 308940308941308942

[Duckman]

This is good information! Thanks Javarat! I am not there, so I can't say 100% that I am not seeing any bloat. I am just looking at the pictures provided and don't see the bloat. There is one thing though, which can verify if he is blocked up or not. Press slightly on the belly and see if it goes in or not. If he is blocked up, it will fill like a rock and won't move at all. That would be serious and we would have to work on the constipation immediately (in which case I can provide my number in a PM). If not, the Gas-x (Simethicone) will help with any bloating caused by gas, which is not a serious situation.



The determination of bloat was because his tummy was maxed out, he was not pooping, he was peeing very little, and the tummy was not reducing between feedings.
He had only pooped a few pellets in several days.
Keeper used hydration and apple juice to get poop... which caused a brief episode of diarrhea.. and then no poop at all.
I advised water only for a while and stimulation, and have been reintroducing formula in steps.
Only reduction in stomach size was at last feeding.. when he suddenly peed a lot.

He is currently on full strength formula, at four hour feedings, and keeper said he is just starting to open his eyes.
I am hoping that we will see his tummy start to decrease and increase between feedings, and regular poop at each feeding.

[Nctova]

Thank you for the bit of relief..

I just fed him 3 ccs of full strength. He absolutely lovedddd it. Tail wagging and all.

He did pee for me. But no poop. I’m going to give him a little soak and I’ll take a photo after that.

His bloat seemed to have gone down quite a bit since the last time as well..
maybe the gas x is finally getting things suppressed.

I still am hoping for a big poop though..

[Nctova]

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Happy as a piggy :)

It looks like his bloat has gone down!

I am thinking about giving a dose of gas x in about an hour and a half of .11 cc. to keep the bloat down and possibly make some poop happen?

[Duckman]

Wonderful news! It can take a couple of days for a baby to start pooping, after a diarrhea episode, so don't be overly concerned about him not pooping for you yet. Just keep a close eye on it and if he hasn't pooped by tomorrow afternoon, we might have to intervene.

Seeing those normal pictures, I can see what you were talking about now. I do see the bloat now, but I have seen much much worse. I don't think he was in danger with the amount of bloat he had, but it needed to be address whether it was bad or not. Any bloat is not a good thing!

[Javarat]

His tummy is looking a lot better. :)
First time I have seen it down in several days.
He may have dumped a lot of pee while in the warm bath.

Yes, if you didn't already, the Gasx should help. Keep giving it about twice per day as it can help and will not hurt.
I know several rehabbers who dose Gasx once per day even if the baby is fine, to prevent things like this.
Let him, and you, sleep for the entire 4 hours between feedings, with no stimulation between feedings.

I bet he is going to have gorgeous eyes.

[Duckman]

This is only a recommendation, but at Squirrel Refuge, we only feed them around the clock until they are about 2 weeks old. They are more than capable of allowing you to sleep for 8 hours at night. I hope no one will get upset with this advise, but all of our squirrel have had no problem with this schedule and most here know the volume we do each year!

Admins - Please feel free to delete if not proper advice. :glomp My ego can take it! :serene


His tummy is looking a lot better. :)
First time I have seen it down in several days.
He may have dumped a lot of pee while in the warm bath.

Yes, if you didn't already, the Gasx should help. Keep giving it about twice per day as it can help and will not hurt.
I know several rehabbers who dose Gasx once per day even if the baby is fine, to prevent things like this.
Let him, and you, sleep for the entire 4 hours between feedings, with no stimulation between feedings.

I bet he is going to have gorgeous eyes.

[Nctova]

It was very nice to sleep the 4 hour increments! Thanks for that haha..
I haven’t mentioned it, but I do have a 13 week old Australian Shepherd puppy as well. So sleep is limited..

So the night feeding went well. He peed but no poop.. I’m a little late on this morning feeding so I’m going to do that now..

Should I still give him water in between feedings??

[Nctova]

So morning feeding went well. I did give him 1 cc of water then I took the puppy out. When I came back in a fed him 3ccs of full strength formula.
After, he peed and I saw some poop wanting to come out but it just surfaced.. didn’t make its way out. I tried the flick trick you told me about too.

He really isn’t bloated anymore but the bowels should be producing some poop by now..

[redwuff]

You guys know that esbilac is notorious for causing intestinal blockage. Why not switch him to something like the goats milk formula. Just a suggestion. Of course this blockage must be relieved. But I don’t think putting him back on Esbilac is the way to go.

[Javarat]

I wouldn't complicate it by swapping formulas at this point.. he is about to open his eyes, and then move to a 50/50 Esbilac - FV 20/50 mix.
That would be like swapping racing car tires on the last lap. And the daily dosage of simethicone should compensate for any concerns with the Esbilac.

Remember we pushed a lot of water into him, and not much formula for several days. So he is going to take a while to fill up and then poop.
This appears to have been a 'gas bloat'... with gas in the lower intestines that was also restricting the urinary tract. The area was probably that purple mark that moved around near his bladder.
When the simethicone finally reached to the lower intestines and relieved some of the pressure... he dumped his entire bladder.
Right now he feels a lot less abdominal pressure, and has no urge to poop.

He may take a few more days to open his eyes. He doesn't appear to have enough fur on his tummy to be ready. Sometimes if they feel stressed or starving they will open them early in the fourth week. I think to assist them in finding mommy and food. Now that he is no longer desperately starving he may keep them closed for a while.

I would recommend staying on the four hour schedule during the day, and then do two back-to-back five hour feedings tonight. Like 9pm - 2am - 7am as an example.
He could probably do a longer period.. but right now we are trying to fill his intestines back up at a steady rate. And 5 hours of sleep will probably feel like you are already unfairly indulging yourself.
After he opens his eyes you could do two 6 hour feedings at night.

[Nctova]

I do hope to transition him to FV once his eyes are open. I think that will help with his digestive issues..

So I just gave him another feeding. He acts like the 3ccs isn’t enough so I’ll be sure to add another .5 in 3 hours.
I also added into the formula about .11 cc of gas x. How often can I add that in? Also you say feed him every 4 hours during the day?

He doesn’t seem bloated at all now..
he did pee again for me and a small little piece of semi soft stool came out but again, he wouldn’t let the whole thing pass. He started squirming & tensing up so after that it wasn’t opening back up..

[Nctova]

Off topic of digestion but..

I have noticed he has recently started doing a “sneezing” or “coughing” noise but from his nose. Almost as if he has a little cold. It doesn’t happen a lot but just like he’s blowing from his nose. I did see a little what looked like water or I guess nose fluid come out during one of his snorts. It was a super tiny amount.

Is this normal for these noises & behavior? Or should I be worried about a possible cold or something??

[Javarat]

Give him about .1 ml of GasX twice per day. Don't add it to the formula... squirt it directly into his mouth, and then wash it down with a feeding.
After he is pooping regular you can give it to him once per day as a preventative.

Yes, they occasionally sneeze. And it is pollen season. Watch for a continued pattern of it. Mostly watch for any changes in appetite. If he starts a pattern of sneezing listen to how he sounds when breathing. It should basically be silent.

Have you re-weighed him recently to calculate amount to feed?

[Nctova]

Okay- I will not add the gas x to the formula from now on.

And I just weighed him.. he’s 48.2
Really need to get some weight on him

[Nctova]

Still no poop :,(

[Javarat]

It's going to take a while.

If he is acting happy, hungry, not bloated, and has no hard spots or discoloration on tummy he is probably fine.
He should be peeing pretty well for you.

[Nctova]

Should I try to give him some 100% real apple juice in some water?

[Spanky]

Should I try to give him some 100% real apple juice in some water?

I would not.

When was the last time he pooped (sure there is nothing in the bedding)?

How long ago did he start on full strength formula?

[Nctova]

About 2 days ago..

No poop in his bedding..

[Javarat]

He went on full strength formula 40 hours ago.

Can you post a new picture of his tummy?

[Duckman]

Has he gotten milk in his nose, that you know about? They will sneeze occasionally, but if it is often, that would need to be addressed.




I have noticed he has recently started doing a “sneezing” or “coughing” noise but from his nose. Almost as if he has a little cold. It doesn’t happen a lot but just like he’s blowing from his nose. I did see a little what looked like water or I guess nose fluid come out during one of his snorts. It was a super tiny amount.

Is this normal for these noises & behavior? Or should I be worried about a possible cold or something??

[Nctova]

I will take a photo before his next feeding.

He did have milk come out of his nose a couple weeks ago. But haven’t heard any clicking since that happened. The “sneezing” started about 4 days ago.

[Nctova]

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[Javarat]

His tummy actually looks pretty good.
His anus is protruding a bit, but that may be because of his posture in your hand.
I would check how it feels just above it (hard/soft/other) and massage around it with a little water.

I cannot accurately tell colors in phone photos... does he have any of the purple like he did before, or any red areas on his tummy?

As you massage with a finger, feel for any hardness in sections, or lumps.

If I had this one in my hands, I would be doing some massaging with a finger around his anus, in case he has poop stuck just up inside it.
I would also be doing a gentle press-and-release rolling motion on each section with my finger (not just a rubbing motion).

I see a little eye in that first photo!

[Nancy in New York]

His tummy actually looks pretty good.
His anus is protruding a bit, but that may be because of his posture in your hand.


I think in most of the photos of him, the anus is protruding.
I've had squirrels like this and it seems like once they start pooping regularly, it goes
back to normal.
Not sure this is the case with this little darling though. :dono

[UDoWhat]

I have done hundreds of baby squirrels over the past 20 years. In my experience, a protruding anus is usually caused by poor nutrition absorption which causes a baby to not have adequate fat around the anus. This baby is struggling to use the nutrition from the formula. I would transition from Esbilac and go to the goats milk formula. Experienced rehabilitators have seen over and over again that Esbilac can cause poor nutrition utilization in some babies. Once you stabilize this baby I would begin a slow transition to a 50%/50% Goats milk formula/FV 20-50 formula. Please read the thread “Rocky is bloated” and you will see a perfect example of poor nutrition utilization that was turned around with the goats milk -FV formula.:Love_Icon JMHI

[Nctova]

I just finished reading Rocky’s story.. so cute!

I will transition him to the goats milk formula if we are sure that is something that may help with his digestion issues.
I don’t think the lack of weight gain is his problem but just constipation and occasional bloat..

I do have the fox valley 20/50 ready to go. Would that be better to transition to now rather than the GMF?

I also tried your suggestions for the massage and rubbing areas / techniques, he didn’t poop for me :(
He does have a stiff area around his anus that feels very tight. I’ll try my best to loosen that up with massaging.. I’m so worried that he hasn’t pooped in so long!

That’s why I was hoping for the apple juice to be approved here. Even diarrhea at this point would be better than nothing right?

[Nctova]

I spoke a moment too soon!
Langley pooped 2 nice terds after his middle of the night feeding!
I know it’s not a lot considering his lack of pooping BUT it’s something! And means that he doesn’t have a blockage right?

If he continues to poop regularly, could I start to transition him to FV 20/50?
I’d rather do that than go from esbilac to GMF to FV.. but if that’s what is recommended I will.

Thank you all who have been helping with Langley. It is such a stressful time when your baby isn’t doing well. I pray he continues to pass whatever has been backing him up

[Javarat]

Yay! Lets see how does on the next couple of feedings.
And see what happens with his protruding anus.

[Nctova]

He pooped again after his morning feeding!!!!! YES :) :) :)
His stools are nice size, yellow in color, & not too firm but not too soft..

I will weigh him and take pictures before his next feeding. I have him sleeping on my chest now.
I’m so relieved.

Also, it seems like his anus is much more relaxed.

[Javarat]

If he continues to poop regularly, could I start to transition him to FV 20/50?Wait until he opens his eyes and is pooping on his own (you find it in his bedding or tub).
Then transition to a 50/50 mix of Esbilac and Fox 20/50... or the goats milk mix and FV if you feel more comfortable with that.

[Nctova]

I’m sorry I wasn’t able to update yet with a photo and weigh in..

My puppy started throwing up this morning so we had to rush out to the vet.

I did get a feeding in around 12 which he peed but no poop that time.

He seems to be doing MUCH better.

Will update when I get home.

[Javarat]

Remember that only 1/3rd of what you are putting into him is solid,
and you will not get a lot of that out,
because it is being turned into more squirrel. :)

He is about to hit a growth spurt, and grow 50% every week.
And so will his consumption, and poop.

[Nctova]

Weighing in at 56.7 grams!
He’s definitely gaining..
I’m still feeding him 3ccs though. How should go from here to increase?

Is it too soon to start adding in a small amount of the FV 20/50?

Can’t wait for his growth spurt & of course more POOP :)

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[Javarat]

5% of that weight is 2.8ml
So I would not go over 3ml right now.

Stay with just straight Esbilac until eyes are fully open.

[Nctova]

Everything seems to still be moving along great! He just ate again & pooped even more this time. Nice size stools with little tiny pellets in them & good color..

I will hold off on the FV transition until his eyes are fully open.
When can I introduce some solids? I got these “yum yum balls” from Henry’s & a few other chew treats. Should I go ahead & order a rodent block or use what I have when that time comes?

[Spanky]

Everything seems to still be moving along great! He just ate again & pooped even more this time. Nice size stools with little tiny pellets in them & good color..

I will hold off on the FV transition until his eyes are fully open.
When can I introduce some solids? I got these “yum yum balls” from Henry’s & a few other chew treats. Should I go ahead & order a rodent block or use what I have when that time comes?

I have never seen "yum yum balls" at Henry's. :thinking

The first (and only) solids you want to introduce are blocks... Henry's if you are going that way. I usually start putting them into their bin within a few days of eyes opening. I cut them into quarters and use only a quarter of a block at a time for a singleton. At first they will only gnaw them and make lots of crumbs out of them but they will eventually start eating them. Once they are eating them well, and only after they are eating block well, should any other solids (starting with veggies) be introduced. And they only get the other things after they have eaten their block.


https://www.henryspets.com/squirrel-diet/

[Nctova]

I’m looking on Henry’s website and see a few different block options.. which one is best?

These are the balls I have.
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[Duckman]

Sorry I haven't been around for a couple of days. I have been fighting to keep a little eyes closed baby alive, who the finders had let milk get in her nose (and never got it out) and she got so infected she couldn't breath. After thinking she was out of the woods yesterday, she took a bad turn and I lost her this morning. We fought together for 5 days.

I am so happy to hear about him pooping! Great job sticking with him! When they have Diarrhea, it can often take them some time to have poops again, because there isn't anything inside to poop. I will say though, that those balls are treats only. Too many nuts and as was pointed out by Nancy, the first solids they should be introduced to is Block. Once he is eating his block, you can then break off a piece of those balls and give to him as a treat, but that is all. One piece (like one of the almonds) a day.


I’m looking on Henry’s website and see a few different block options.. which one is best?

These are the balls I have.
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[Nctova]

So sorry for your loss.. bless her soul. <3

Thank you for the info. I’ll do that.
Regarding the bloating though, does Henry’s carry a specific block that is a recommended choice? He has a few different ones on the site. Just want to make sure I pick the right one.

Langley is doing great & really loving cuddle time. He has filled out quite a bit & everything seems to be perfectly on track! I’ll update pics soon.

Thank you everyone again for all your help. Especially Javarat, you were so so kind.