12 year old Bill the squirrel has the poops.

[tomhegan]

Hi, Bill our 12 year old male grey has had the poops for almost 2 months on and off, mostly on. His poop is like wet cement so it sticks to him and we have to wash him every other day. We tried cutting back on his feedings and even had him fast which seemed to help for a time. He is now just on a diet of 1 healthy block per day with half in the morning and the other half at supper time. Being 12 he has slowed down a bit and sleeps more but he does not appear to be suffering. Suggestions?

[Diggie's Friend]

Try adding "Quick Cook" (not Instant) plain organic oatmeal 1/4 Tsp. cooked measured portion to his diet daily; it should help to regulate him.

Also, Soil Based Organism Pre/Probiotic for pets from Vitality Science 1/64 Tsp. of powder from a capsule daily.

This source aids in digestion, and battle bad bacteria and degrade oxalates in foods,

which otherwise negatively impact digestion, and nutrient bioavailability to the body.

https://www.amazon.com/Pet-Flora-caps-Probiotic-Gastrointestinal/dp/B005PJN2HO


This source is worth its weight in gold, it has been used by some of the members with older squirrels and found to increase energy level.

It is a high level anti inflammatory that battles free radicals in the body. One of the best tonics on the planet.

The price is 12.50, yet shipping from Canada is 25.00 I always recommend getting two bottles to take advantage of the shipping.

Check with the vender to confirm that they will ship 2 bottles at the same price.

https://villagevitaminstore.ca/products/org-liquid-pycnogenol

2 Drops from ml 1 cc syringe daily, adding one drop AM to the meal, and one drop PM to the meal.

This is the powdered extract source of Pycnogenol: https://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Origins-Pycnogenol-Natures-Antioxidant/dp/B00142E92I

[Diggie's Friend]

Include organic baked Butternut, or Acorn squash 1 Tsp. daily to his diet, feeding 1/2 Tsp. AM and 1/2 Tsp. PM.

As not to waste the squash, after fully baked, using a 1/2 Tsp. measuring spoon, spoon out two portions each to place them both into a new baby food, or covered ice tray pockets, to freeze till ready to feed. To feed thaw one pocket portion in a covered plastic container in the fridge, and then place on counter for a hour to warm to room temperature. Feed 1/2 Tsp. AM and again PM from the pocket contents.

A product a number of members with older male squirrels have tried, Organic Pumpkin seed oil.
This healthy organic food grade (not carrier oil) grown and produced in the USA, supports the urogenital health in rodents.

(see smaller bottle)

https://www.amazon.com/Pumpkin-Seed-Oil-Grown-Oregon/dp/B07CRPJBYF/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=pumpkin%2Bseed%2Boil%2Boregon&qid=1554313804&s=gateway&sr=8-1&th=1


In addition, itwould be wise to check the mean urine pH of your boy. This is done by taking a reading of the urine at least an hour after a meal 3 times in one day, then a fourth the next morning before the meals. Total the reading values, and divide by four to get the mean urine pH.

If the reading for the urine pH is over 7.0, or under 6.2 you will need to adjust your squirrel diet to bring it into the heathy range of 6.4 to 6.8 ; otherwise it will be causing calcium loss that promote the formation of bladder and kidney stones.

When urine pH is too high it can indicate UTI, yet if no symptoms are evident for UTI it most likely will be due to the diet being too high in pH range. To adjust the pH of the diet to prevent calcium loss and inhibit stone formation, boil stalked vegetables, and blanch (boil short-term) baby leafy greens 90 sec.

For just urine pH I like this source best as it has the most easy read for urine pH of the sources available.

https://www.amazon.com/Litmus-Strips-Universal-Application-Packs/dp/B00S730YWG/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=urine+ph+strips&qid=1554312955&refinements=p_89%3ALabRat+Supplies&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

You may also want to get either the URI or Mission testing strips also available on Amazon.com for urine pH and other conditions like UTI.

[TubeDriver]

Hi,
What else does he get in his diet regularly? What brand of rodent block are you using?

Twelve years is a really long time, Bill must be a grand old man squirrel at this point!:great Hopefully we can help with this issue.



Hi, Bill our 12 year old male grey has had the poops for almost 2 months on and off, mostly on. His poop is like wet cement so it sticks to him and we have to wash him every other day. We tried cutting back on his feedings and even had him fast which seemed to help for a time. He is now just on a diet of 1 healthy block per day with half in the morning and the other half at supper time. Being 12 he has slowed down a bit and sleeps more but he does not appear to be suffering. Suggestions?

[tomhegan]

Hi,
What else does he get in his diet regularly? What brand of rodent block are you using?

Twelve years is a really long time, Bill must be a grand old man squirrel at this point!:great Hopefully we can help with this issue.

We have fed Bill Henrys Healthy Bocks adult formula since he was a youngin. Along with fruits and veggies. He seems to be drinking a large amount of water also.

[TubeDriver]

So he gets a daily Henries healthy blocks and fresh fruits/veggies/water? Well, that is a good diet and may partially explain Bill's long lifespan!:great Make sure he is not getting to much fruit, that might cause lose/soft poop.

Does his poop or pee smell worse than usual?

How much does Bill weigh? Onset of diabetes is often associated with an increase in water intake and loose stool is also a symptom. He is a very elderly squirrel, it is possible that this has started with him? You could use a paper pH strip to check his urine pH, diabetic urine is often acidic. You can get pH strips at Walmarts, CVS, Amazon etc like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Litmus-Strips-Universal-Application-Packs/dp/B00S730YWG





We have fed Bill Henrys Healthy Bocks adult formula since he was a youngin. Along with fruits and veggies. He seems to be drinking a large amount of water also.

[TubeDriver]

One of our experienced rehabbers, Spanky, had the idea of trying some diastat.

You can get it at Henries:

https://www.henryspets.com/dia-stat-probiotics/

You mix with water. He might take it from a syringe. You could probably also mix it with water and than add to some non sweetened applesauce.

[tomhegan]

So he gets a daily Henries healthy blocks and fresh fruits/veggies/water? Well, that is a good diet and may partially explain Bill's long lifespan!:great Make sure he is not getting to much fruit, that might cause lose/soft poop.

Does his poop or pee smell worse than usual?

How much does Bill weigh? Onset of diabetes is often associated with an increase in water intake and loose stool is also a symptom. He is a very elderly squirrel, it is possible that this has started with him? You could use a paper pH strip to check his urine pH, diabetic urine is often acidic. You can get pH strips at Walmarts, CVS, Amazon etc like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Litmus-Strips-Universal-Application-Packs/dp/B00S730YWG

Yes, it does smell worse. I talked with a rehabber today who has experience with elderly squirrels. She said it sounds like he has kidney and liver failure which would explain his being more thirsty than usual. She strongly suggested putting him down because he is suffering. The way Bill looked at me this afternoon after I asked him if he had enough his eyes just said yes. Yeah..Im a 57 year old man balling his eyes out as I type this. Now how do I find someone to do the deed.

[TubeDriver]

:( I am so sorry to hear this. Your friend Bill has lived a very long life and I guess all good things must come to an end at some point. :grouphug

I don't want to second guess this rehabber or your own decision. If he is really suffering then only you will know when the time is right for the final gift of a gentle, peaceful release for your little friend. But if he still has some quality of life left, perhaps trying some diet changes and or the diastat might be worth a try? There are varying degrees of liver and/or kidney failure so it might be possible that Bill still has some quality time left?

If Bill told you that he is ready, then perhaps a friendly local rehabber can have Bill seen by their vet so he can pass peacefully in professional hands. I wish there was more we could do to help you and Bill. We certainly understand how hard this is, squirrel magic works deeply in our hearts and leaves us forever changed. :grouphug



Yes, it does smell worse. I talked with a rehabber today who has experience with elderly squirrels. She said it sounds like he has kidney and liver failure which would explain his being more thirsty than usual. She strongly suggested putting him down because he is suffering. The way Bill looked at me this afternoon after I asked him if he had enough his eyes just said yes. Yeah..Im a 57 year old man balling his eyes out as I type this. Now how do I find someone to do the deed.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Being 12 he has slowed down a bit and sleeps more but he does not appear to be suffering. Suggestions?

Hi Tom, we all understand... completely. :grouphug You posted that you didn’t think he was suffering. Sleeps a lot. You are the best judge of his well being. Personally, I would not take the recommendation of a rehabber that doesn’t know Bill and has no diagnostic abilities to back up that recommendation. I would place more merit in a vet that has done diagnostic test and convinces me the condition is grim. Of course, he is a senior guy and could have any of the conditions associated with aging. We have a senior squirrel on this board named Taz. I think he is 14 or maybe 15 years old. He is blind and no doubt is slow and sleeps a lot. He is adored by his mom as I’m sure you love Bill.

I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion without a lot of thought. You will know when that is the right decision. :hug

[tomhegan]

Thank You all, you are incredible. I thank you for the suggestions. As I write this Bill is laying on his back in his hammock eating his oatmeal. He is ......comfy and looks..happy. He still has the poops but I am not ready to give up on him without trying. In my observations he is not suffering. I will keep you all posted on his progress or lack of. Thank You All. P.s.Im not really a junior member. I joined this group when our cat brought this pink thing home 12+- years ago. I must have been let go because of inactivity....because Bill was always...easy. Peace/

[Diggie's Friend]

I wish it was better news. There are things that you can do though to address CKD in older rodents.

See symptoms, lethargy, etc

https://www.petmd.com/exotic/conditions/urinary/c_ex_rt_glomerulonephrosis

http://ratguide.com/health/urinary_renal/chronic_progressive_nephropathy.php

https://www.2ndchance.info/test.php?page=ratkidney

To support kidney function in rodents in old age, it is needful to lower the phosphorus in the diet, and raise the calcium. As Citrates are know support kidney function as does lowering phosphorus that the kidneys in old age no longer do as well to handle, adding calcium citrate, and lowering the phosphorus in the diet is needful.

https://www.amazon.com/Frontier-Calcium-Citrate-Powder/dp/B000UYA1T6

As I posted prior, Pycnogenol helps the kidneys. https://www.news-medical.net/news/20100303/Pycnogenol-counteracts-kidney-damage-caused-by-hypertension-improves-blood-flow-to-the-kidneys.aspx

See my thread on Kidney Disease in Specific Ailments under Other heading for more information..

Other references: Allison Campbell longevity and old age in rats.

https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/643643

[CritterMom]

I recently lost my boy at 9.5 years. I envy you the extra time you have had.

I had a situation with Mister P where, especially during the summer, he would have off and on mushy poops. His fur was so dense I had to really watch him because his little bottom would paste over with the dried poop. He HATED getting cleaned off and wasn't shy about letting me know. I eventually was able to link it to hormonal shifts - when I started seeing "action" with the outdoor wilds I knew I would see this problem again. It happened more in summer because the mating nonsense quiets to a dull roar up here during the winter.

I am not suggesting that this is the same problem but my solution may help. I knew that rice was good for loose poops - rice absorbs water as it is being digested and thus has the ability to bind and dry up the poo as it passes through the digestive tract. I knew that cooked rice wasn't gonna work - he had zero interest in it, so one day I gave him some Rice Chex. I had done some research and found out that they are supplemented with calcium and aren't a terrible snack. He LOVED them - in fact Rice Chex became his very favorite treat in the world - AND they dried him up nicely.

If the food things you are trying don't help, I would strongly suggest you try a few doses of Pepto Bismol (we can help you with how much). Sometimes, poop issues become self perpetuating - something sets them off, they have the problem, and it doesn't take too long before all the poop is actually causing some inflammation in the gut which is causing more pooping and more inflammation and on and on. If you can just make the poop be normal for a bit it gives the gut a chance to calm down and the problem rectifies itself. That is what Pepto does - it doesn't heal any sicknesses but it DOES dry things up for a bit.

[TubeDriver]

:great:dance:clap

Bill sounds like a typical, old fellow. Maybe not everything works perfectly but he sounds content and even... happy. Honestly, my body ain't what it used to be and I might need sleep more than when I was a pup but I still enjoy life. I hope some of the diet/diastat suggestions help! Let us know how things go...



Thank You all, you are incredible. I thank you for the suggestions. As I write this Bill is laying on his back in his hammock eating his oatmeal. He is ......comfy and looks..happy. He still has the poops but I am not ready to give up on him without trying. In my observations he is not suffering. I will keep you all posted on his progress or lack of. Thank You All. P.s.Im not really a junior member. I joined this group when our cat brought this pink thing home 12+- years ago. I must have been let go because of inactivity....because Bill was always...easy. Peace/

[tomhegan]

I recently lost my boy at 9.5 years. I envy you the extra time you have had.

I had a situation with Mister P where, especially during the summer, he would have off and on mushy poops. His fur was so dense I had to really watch him because his little bottom would paste over with the dried poop. He HATED getting cleaned off and wasn't shy about letting me know. I eventually was able to link it to hormonal shifts - when I started seeing "action" with the outdoor wilds I knew I would see this problem again. It happened more in summer because the mating nonsense quiets to a dull roar up here during the winter.

I am not suggesting that this is the same problem but my solution may help. I knew that rice was good for loose poops - rice absorbs water as it is being digested and thus has the ability to bind and dry up the poo as it passes through the digestive tract. I knew that cooked rice wasn't gonna work - he had zero interest in it, so one day I gave him some Rice Chex. I had done some research and found out that they are supplemented with calcium and aren't a terrible snack. He LOVED them - in fact Rice Chex became his very favorite treat in the world - AND they dried him up nicely.

If the food things you are trying don't help, I would strongly suggest you try a few doses of Pepto Bismol (we can help you with how much). Sometimes, poop issues become self perpetuating - something sets them off, they have the problem, and it doesn't take too long before all the poop is actually causing some inflammation in the gut which is causing more pooping and more inflammation and on and on. If you can just make the poop be normal for a bit it gives the gut a chance to calm down and the problem rectifies itself. That is what Pepto does - it doesn't heal any sicknesses but it DOES dry things up for a bit.

Thank You! He seems better today after feeding him the quick oats. I'm going to try your suggestion because your issue with your boy seems close to Bill's. Did your boy ever get a bald spot on his back? Bill got one last year and it seemed to be growing back but then stopped. His skin is awfully dry where it is. Could this be a vitamin deficiency?

[CritterMom]

It could be. Does he get ANY sunlight - not through a window, but direct sunlight? Windows and screens filter the UV that helps metabolize calcium. If not, getting a reptile light for him - not the heat lamps but a reptile UV lamp would be a good idea.

[tomhegan]

It could be. Does he get ANY sunlight - not through a window, but direct sunlight? Windows and screens filter the UV that helps metabolize calcium. If not, getting a reptile light for him - not the heat lamps but a reptile UV lamp would be a good idea.

In the winter he is inside by a large window with plenty of light but I understand the filtering. Now that its warm he will be outside sunning himself on top of his house which will help...hopefully.

[Diggie's Friend]

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?57666-Kidney-Disease-Info-Data-and-potential-treatments&p=1290388#post1290388


Calcium citrate reduces proteinuria in rats.

https://www.academia.edu/19459404/Calcium_citrate_ameliorates_the_progression_of_chr onic_renal_injury

[Diggie's Friend]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0085253815498308


Calcium citrate ameliorates the progression of chronic renal injury.

Metabolic acidosis is a consequence of chronic renal failure and it may produce bone demineralization, muscle proteolysis, and progression of chronic renal failure.

Conclusion: Calcium citrate corrects metabolic acidosis
Kidney stones occur concurrently with Kidney failure. Calcium citrate along with citrate fruits in the diet are essential to inhibit stone formation, which supports the slowing of the progression of chronic kidney failure (disease). Unlike Calcium citrate, Calcium carbonate contributes to kidney stone formation in chronic/progressive kidney disease.

[Diggie's Friend]

Be sure you feed only organic, non GMO food sources.

https://www.top10homeremedies.com/news-facts/10-things-actually-damaging-kidneys.html/3


Lowest in sugars of organic lowfat yogurt sources: https://greenvalleylactosefree.com/product/lactose-free-plain-yogurt

(1 Tsp.) Green Valley 'Lactose free' Lowfat plain organic yogurt, split fed daily, add organic Chia oil (Foods Alive) 1/32 Tsp. and Oil Pumpkin seed oil (from Seed Oil Company of Oregon) 1/64 Tsp. daily.

Add 2 non-needle 1 cc ml syringe drops of Pycnogenol Organika liquid to the yogurt, one drop to each (1/2 Tsp.) portion serving fed AM and PM daily.

[TubeDriver]

Hi Tom,

I think I would try a couple things. I would purchase a small amount of Harlan Tekkled block. He may not like it but you can grind it up and then grind some Henry Healthy block (50%/50%) mix. Use some apple apple sauce as a binder. You can make up a softball sized ball and put in the fridge. To feed him, just scoop a chunk out with a spoon and roll into a ball. Henries is really good and tastes good but the HT has a load of vitamins and is an all in one meal (whereas Henries blocks should be supplemented with veggies). Henries makes really good stuff but I would just try something else to see how it works. I would still give him fresh veggies too. I would continue to add some probiotics powder (the pet flora) and you might also try some CVS powdered probotic capsules. Just open the capsule up and sprinkle a small bit on his boo balls. The powder actually tastes fairly good.

https://www.amazon.com/Nesom-Distrib...a-633183501837

Extra sunlight is not a bad idea when possible but always make sure he can cool off and get out of the sun, old bodies do not handle heat very well.


If you can purchase some ph strips from your local pharmacy (less than $10), you can test his urine and see if the ph level is off. This will tell us if he has become diabetic.


It sounds like old Bill is getting into the later twilight moments of his long life but he still sounds pretty content and happy overall. I hope he has another good year or two, at least, in him with your help.

[Trooper]

Hi Tom: I am coming to this post cold turkey and have not had the time to read every response, so just in the eventuality that nobody addressed the issue of your 12 years old with smelly and less-than-normal poops and at the risk of being off-pace, I decided to post this anyway:

Have you checked his poops for coccidia?

This is a parasite that in most cases lives in the guts of rodents, horses, sheep, cats, dogs, etc. and it is an opportunistic parasite that takes over the gut when the immune system or gastrointestinal tract is in distress for other normal reasons.

Once it gets hold of the intestinal linings, it burrows in the intestine mucosa and reproduces bursting at maturity into thousands of eggs which in turn, re install themselves in the intestine walls to start the cycle again. Depending on the severity of the coccidia infestation, it can give soft to runny or bloody stools, lethargy, anorexia (lack of appetite), sluggishness and severe gastro-intestinal pain.

It is treated with Albone for 7 days, or Ponazuril for 7 days or Toltrazuril for 2 days. Most vets know about it and have ways to cure it.

If I am off base with what your baby has, please disregard this message.

Good luck,

Trooper's dad

[Diggie's Friend]

Loose stool is often due to chronic kidney failure common to older rodents including tree squirrels. This doesn't mean there is no hope; please read through this article.

https://www.2ndchance.info/test.php?page=ratkidney

As squirrels age their kidney function lowers. To lighten the load on their kidneys that no longer well process phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, boil vegetables, and blanch organic baby leafy greens (90 sec.)

Also remove foods that are higher in phosphorus in the diet like, corn, sweet potatoes, while imiting nuts to no more than 1/2 Tsp. chopped daily.

Include organic oatmeal (not instant or flavored just plain) as it contains Beta glucans that are known to sooth the lining of the intestines and help to resolve loose stool.

https://www.amazon.com/Bobs-Red-Mill-Organic-Fashioned/dp/B01FUI7GNK/ref=pd_bxgy_325_img_2/131-5997072-2077506?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01FUI7GNK&pd_rd_r=ef1d7f75-6879-11e9-b7b1-9768eea003d5&pd_rd_w=exj8a&pd_rd_wg=bR21t&pf_rd_p=a2006322-0bc0-4db9-a08e-d168c18ce6f0&pf_rd_r=WMK0R8R6G437Y2M7RV4H&refRID=WMK0R8R6G437Y2M7RV4H&th=1

Also recommended is Pycnogenol a compound from the cambium layer of the Pinaster Pine, that has been studied over 40 years and 100 studies including a number in rats and mice.

This source is a high source of polyphenols that have been found to lend support to both ailing kidneys and the liver in rats.



Sorry to say that the liquid Organika source is out of stock. The powder is the hardest one to measure.

The reduction of this 30 mg. source is a quarter portion of (1 /64 Tsp.) The best I could say to use for a measure would be the amount that you can hold on the flat end of a toothpick. Add this to low fat organic plain yogurt daily.

https://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Origins-Pycnogenol-Capsules-Count/dp/B00CLYNAUA/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=pycnogenol%2Bhealthy%2Borigins&qid=1556325326&s=hpc&sr=1-9&th=1

Also Milk Thistle Seed extract offers good support to the liver.

.https://www.amazon.com/Oregons-Wild-Harvest-Thistle-Supplement/dp/B00J9MKEUG

Give 2 drops from a needle syringe one day on and two days off in succession adding one drop each both the AM and PM meals.

(Do not use the dropper the bottle comes with, it is too high a measure.)

[Diggie's Friend]

Here's the link to the Mini Teaspoons: https://www.amazon.com/Norpro-Stainless-Measuring-Spoons-smidgen/dp/B0009X1P9S

(See free delivery Sunday)

Here's the link to Pet Flora SBO (pre/probiotic) 1/64 Tsp. daily in organic plain yogurt.

https://www.amazon.com/Pet-Flora-caps-Probiotic-Gastrointestinal/dp/B005PJN2HO

Green Valley lactose free lowfat organic plain yogurt contains the other forms of probiotics like Lactobacillis Acidophilus Casei, that are key to

combating Ecoli in the digestive tract. 1/2 Tsp. each with AM & PM meals.

https://greenvalleylactosefree.com/product/lactose-free-plain-yogurt (humanely produced) Store finder is on page.