Bot Flies and Eastern Chipmunks :( [Archive]

krushia

08-16-2007, 04:44 PM

I have been handling wild chipmunks for two years now, and recently I noticed that two of my little friends have warbles. Today I spent a few hours searching for information on how life-threatening this is, but have found little on chipmunks. Most sources (like this thread) (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2767) agree that squirrels will heal afterwards, but mice should have the larva removed. What should be done with wild Eastern Chipmunks?

Specifically, I have one female who has one warble on her stomach. Hers is quite large and I fear it may burst open soon. The other chipmunk is a male who has 1-2 that are just starting to swell (hard to tell how many this early). His are very close to his penis, and if they grow I think he will have a lot of bathroom trouble.

Both are very friendly, and we have come to think of them as part of our family since they emerged in spring. What should I do? Is it best to leave them alone and hope they do okay, or put them though the stress of being captured and brought to a strange place for surgery?

- Ken

rippie-n-lilgirlsmom

08-16-2007, 05:02 PM

I checked in my rehabber book and they kind of contradict themselves.
It says if the warble is in a position where it restricts movement or other bodily functions it should be removed.
And then it says they are frequently found in the groin area, thus causing toileting problems it would seem to me?
It says chippies are notorius for having them. Only a trained person should remove them.
Also never treat with Amoxicillin or any other "cillin" drugs.

rippie-n-lilgirlsmom

08-16-2007, 05:14 PM

Keep checking back there will be other rehabbers on here with more suggestions, and who have dealt more with them.

krushia

08-16-2007, 05:15 PM

Gammas Baby:
Thanks for the welcome :) This seems like a great place to talk, and if I had found it under other circumstances I would have take the time to introduce myself.

rippie-n-lilgirlsmom:
In my extensive search I think I read exactly what you're reading... http://www.unbc.ca/nlui/wildlife_diseases/cuterebra.htm

That poor monkey in the picture makes me nervous.

rippie-n-lilgirlsmom

08-16-2007, 05:19 PM

We have some info here on it also.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2767
It also said they can be lethal to mice. Considering that they are often found with bot fly I dont think they are in grave danger. :Welcome to The Squirrel Board.
I love chippies!! When we go camping they are so tame they will come right up to our feet, we take them tons of treats!!

thundersquirrel

08-16-2007, 05:48 PM

i've only dealt with one baby chipmunk before, and i've never dealt with bot flies.

however, based on what i've read and what i think instinctually....i say you should remove them if it's possible. maybe the girl's could stay, since it sounds close to leaving anyway? but for the boy, it sounds like you'd be saving him a lot of pain and possible death if you got those bot flies out.

perhaps you should have a vet help you. not dictate to you, but just help you remove them. or maybe there's a way to kill the warbles before they get any bigger?

this is really just an opinion post, but i really think it makes sense to try to get rid of them.

4skwerlz

08-16-2007, 06:47 PM

If you dose him orally with ivermectin (you can mix it with peanut butter) it will kill the botflies. However, this treatment needs to be carried out fairly early in the development of the botfly. Below is a quote from a respected wildlife rehab hospital:

[Bots]...can be squeezed out or pulled out with a forceps when they are larger, but in the early stage, have to be removed by incision or killed with Ivermectin dilute. Some literature has stated not to treat bot larvae with Ivermectin as blood infections could result from the dead larvae remaining in the squirrel’s body. We have successfully treated with Ivermectin dilute in the early stage of the bot, and have encountered no problems with blood poisoning or any other ailments....

There are several ways to administer Ivermectin. Full strength, the dosage is .10 cc per 10 pounds of body weight. For squirrels, you will need to dilute the 1% Ivermectin purchased full strength. It does not mix with water, and it is recommended that it be mixed with propylene glycol. You mix one part Ivermectin with 19 parts propylene glycol which reduces the potency to 1/20th. Then the dosage rate is as follows for the dilute solution: .05cc to 110 grams body weight, .1cc to 220 grams body weight, .2cc to 440 grams body weight, and so on. This dilute can easily be given orally....

Unfortunately, they don't specify what "early stage" means. Certainly, an oral treatment will be easier than trapping and taking him to the vet. If it were one of my wild fuzzy friends, I would try it. But you're going to have to make a judgement call here. That's my 2 cents. Does anyone else on TSB have any experience with treating bots with Ivermectin?

rippie-n-lilgirlsmom

08-16-2007, 06:51 PM

No, and I seen that post here before it does not mention it in my rehabber book.

krushia

08-16-2007, 07:38 PM

When pulling the larva out, do you typically give the critter an anesthetic, or make them grin and bear it? Is there someone here who has done this to rodents? I'm thinking that the female (Beebeegirl) would likely let me pop the parasite out and clean out the cavity with managable kicking and screaming.

I've read about the Ivermectin treatment, but I doubt it is applicable to the male (Dimple) or any of my wild critters since the only way I have been able to determine they have parasites is by the inflamation and signs of a "warble spore" (hole) forming. I'm guessing by then it's too big to kill.

Another thing I'd like to ask is what can be done to help a chipmunk after the larva is expelled? How can I help it deal with blood loss? Can I help by cleaning the wound regularly? If so, with what? If it gets worse, would antibiotics be a possible treatment? These are delicate little critters and I feel I should prepare for anything.

I've spoken to a vet and a rehabber over the phone and neither seems to know much about the species (and I imagine they're thinking "wtf it's only a chipmunk"). I'll have to write an article on what I learn when this is all over :p

4skwerlz

08-16-2007, 08:33 PM

To answer your earlier question, after the larvae are expelled there is no blood loss, though the process can be painful and leaves a large ugly cavity (which soon disappears). Since bots don't reduce their size based on the size of the host, I'm thinking on a tiny chipmunk, it really could be life-threatening, especially located near a vital function.

The oral Ivermectin is for early treatment. As Rippie noted, this may be considered experimental, although the center that wrote about it rehabs hundreds of squirrels a year (successfully) and they claim it works for them. Squeezing out the larvae manually can be done in the later stages. The other option is surgical removal. My 2 cents is, either risk the Ivermectin, or find a local vet who will see a chipmunk and have the vet remove the bots. Let the vet know that a return visit to remove stitches probably won't happen.

I have to deal with these dilemmas with my group of beloved wild squirrels all the time, so I know how heart-wrenching it can be. Good luck.

krushia

08-17-2007, 12:46 PM

Here are some pictures I took a few minutes ago of Beebee's warble. I'll try to get better ones later. This was a really bad time for photos, as she would not sit still due to competition with a red squirrel and the sound of a hawk in the trees. Not to mention the fact that I don't have anyone to take pictures and this camera doesn't focus this close.

Not sure if I'm doing this attachment thing correctly... but in photo #1 you see her belly at an angle and can see the warble spore. Photo #2 is a side shot that does good showing the size of the warble, which runs lengthwise on the right of her belly. Photo #3 is another blurry view of the warble from the front, and shows the spore hole.

Mars

08-17-2007, 03:28 PM

I came across this method on another thread.

Sam had these last year...and yep, it is gross. I was able to get them out by using a syringe with peroxide in it. I pushed it in the hole and they came out to breathe, and when they did, I pushed it like you would a pimple, and they come flying out. It is safe and it works, and it is easy.

krushia

08-17-2007, 04:11 PM

I've read that method already, and I'm tempted to do it myself but I'm concerned about holding her as she endures the pain. My big fear is she will struggle and run halfway through the proceedure, and not let me near her again :(

For those who have done the extraction, how long does this take? If I had access to some isoflurane I'd put her under for a minute. I've contacted two vets so far and neither will do anything.

I'm still stuck on what the ethical choice is. These are wild critters, they aren't in immediate danger, and this is part of nature. Then I think, well they may be wild, but they are as close to our family as a domesticated pet would be. But does that give me the right to interfere with nature? If I were a chipmunk, would I want to be abducted by the human I thought I could trust... and be subjected to a grusome painful proceedure while struggling to escape? Ethics are so confusing :thinking

Mars

08-17-2007, 05:52 PM

krushia

08-17-2007, 06:49 PM

I spoke to a vet tech/rehabber friend for you. And she said that unless the warbles are interferring with function it is best to let them run their course. They look far worse than they really are. So the best advice I think is to remain watchful and supportive and if they do need help we can find it for you.

That's what I've been told by squirrel experts, and it makes sense for them. The concerns I have about the chipmunks are:

1) They are a whole lot smaller then a squirrel! If you look at the picture, the warble is getting to be as long as her belly, and it is already so big it touches her front and back legs when she sits.

2) If she does have trouble when it bursts, she's probably not going to come out of her den. I won't be able to treat her (save from digging up her home to find her). This is what scares me the most.

I played around with it a bit today and she seems okay with that (actually she seems to like it when I scratch it for her). Tomorrow I'll squeeze it a little and get a sense as to how difficult extracting it would be. If she puts up a fuss I'll leave it alone.

Got_Chippies

08-17-2007, 07:55 PM

Hey gang, just found this (Thanx Gammas!):thankyou

I don't know anything about them other than they do exist and are nasty. Sorry I can't be of more help. Dan.:dono

krushia

08-17-2007, 09:03 PM

I was just going through my medical supplies in case I decide to try taking the thing out tomorrow, and remembered I have this (http://www.sawyerproducts.com/B6B.htm). I'm wondering what your thoughts are on using it to suck out the head of the larva instead of using the H2O2 method. Do you think it will be faster? Does the hydrogen peroxide have to be used anyway for sterilization?

krushia

08-17-2007, 09:29 PM

I just googled and look what came up :)
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/CID/journal/issues/v35n3/011565/011565.html

I guess I wasn't the first person to think of this (although there's a bit of a difference between a human and a chipmunk). Should I try it? I'd try it on a very low setting and work my way up to make sure I don't hurt the poor girl. Can anyone think of a reason not to use the sucker method?

muffinsquirrel

08-17-2007, 10:40 PM

How much pressure does the Extractor produce? Would it be likely to do damage to the chippie? I would try it on myself first, just to see how much suction it used - you know, just on your arm or leg. (Try to think of a good reason for having a little red dot on your body, 'cause NOBODY is gonna believe you just wanted to see if it would hurt a chippie!!!)

I hope you are able to help her some way - I, too, hate to see any animal in pain and be able to do nothing.

muffinsquirrel

Pam's Squirt

08-18-2007, 12:39 AM

I've read that it could be lethal to the host if the warble were to be inadvertantly crushed/mashed, or popped open while still inside the host. And, I would think that trying to pick or squeeze it out could, in fact, cause it to crack or pop open from the mere pressure. I'm like you in that I would want it OUT but I think it would be safer for your friend to use peroxide. Use a syringe (no needle) and squirt some peroxide into the hole. Immediately place your finger over the hole to trap the peroxide inside the hole for a few seconds. Then squirt in more peroxide and watch for it. When it comes up to the hole for air gently squeeze (DON"T POP IT!!!) and the nasty little thing should come right out. Seems like it would be a great RELIEF to the little fella to get it out! Let us know how "it comes out"!

krushia

08-20-2007, 12:23 PM

I just got Beebee to come out today, I was worried because she hasn't come out for two days, and now I know why. The larva crawled out! I guess I was right in assuming that it looked full size in my previous post.

She hesitated to come out of her immediate territory, but after the first trip she started acting fine, same as usual. I've seen her lick the wound a few times so it is definately bothering her somewhat. I'm wondering if I should clean it up a little? It has some scum in there, and I'm wondering what your thoughts are... would flushing it help prevent infection? What should I use? saline/hydrogen peroxide/benzalkonium chloride/?

I'm glad she made it through the rupture :alright.gif

EDIT: interesting... after looking at the pictures I wonder if our "she" is really a "he" that hasn't matured yet

krushia

08-20-2007, 09:11 PM

*bump*

Still wondering if I should clean it out and what to use. Sorry for nagging, I just can't wait very long for an answer because it will start scabbing up soon (and possibly sealing in nasty germs/toxins/etc.).

4skwerlz

08-20-2007, 09:54 PM

Everything I have read says, they heal fine on their own with no assistance. Attempting to "flush it out" might just introduce more bacteria.

krushia

08-20-2007, 10:44 PM

Everything I've read says the standard proceedure is to clean the wound with a disinfectant after a larva has been removed (some also say to apply topical antibiotic). I would like to clean it since I have the opportunity, but I need to know what to use.

krushia

08-21-2007, 10:34 AM

Well she is jumping on my lap right now, so I'm frantically trying to find out what to use on rodent wounds. I called my uncle who works with lab animals and he says they use an 0.05% hypochlorite (bleach) solution for mice. What do you rehabbers use? Maybe I should be asking in a new thread...

krushia

08-21-2007, 01:08 PM

Thanks for the bumps :)

I cleaned it out with hydrogen peroxide, and it fizzed a lot and a lot of brown gunk came out, and some white chunks. It didn't look like scar tissue. I'm thinking it was excrement and dried puss. Didn't bother her at all.

I just confirmed that at least three more chipmunks have bots. I wanted to take them all out but I ran out of peanuts, so I can't get anyone to sit still.

Dimple (the one I mentioned at the beginning of this thread) does indeed have two of them next to his genitals. There is some gunk around his wiener, which makes me think he may have an infection (can't tell for sure, didn't get a good look). His warbles are a bit less then half the size beebee's was when it ruptured.

Thumper (unknown gender, a very young one) has one warble that I missed before, because the hole is right by it's anus and it's easy to overlook. This one looks like it has a week - 2 at the most - before it pops. I'll probably leave it alone, it's too hard to get to.

And now a little good news. Cheeky (another unknown gender munkey) had one right in the middle of it's belly, and I took it out by using hydrogen peroxide, and then sucking it out with "The Extractor" when it started to enlarge the hole to poke out. That tool works great! It came out instantly, and Thumper didn't seem to feel much pain (jumped a little, then came right back for another peanut). I think it would work without the hydrogen peroxide too.

I'm wondering why I'm finding so many warbles on these critters. The statistics I've seen say 30% of chipmunks will have them, but this is way more then 30% (we only have 7 chipmunks on the property). Are botflies bad this year? Maybe I should check the food for eggs...

Still curious as to wound cleansing and infection prevention procedures for these critters.

- Ken

Pam's Squirt

08-21-2007, 02:02 PM

I would think that you'd treat it the same as you would an opened abscess. You want it to stay opened so it can drain out all the crap, and heal from the inside out. I'd do nothing more than keep it cleaned with peroxide until I heard from a professional. Good luck! :thumbsup

krushia

08-21-2007, 02:21 PM

I would not use Neosporin as it contains neomycin, which is an aminoglycoside and hence can cause ear and kidney damage, and possibly wipe out bacteria in the intestinal tract. It would be very difficult to administer a non-harmful dosage to a critter as small as a chipmunk.

I guess I will stick to the one-time hydrogen peroxide flush, and periodically clean the surface with benzalkonium chloride wipes (unless anyone knows of a better topical antiseptic).

krushia

08-21-2007, 03:57 PM

Sorry, I just don't know anything about this. Wish I could be more help. It sounds like you're going to have your hands full with all your little "friends" showing up with them. Thank you for caring so much. :grouphug

I now realize my response may have sounded a bit rude, it wasn't meant to be :)

However, I think you brought up an important discussion point when you said a lot of people on this board use Neosporin. I actually just did a search and found a surprising number of threads in which this was recommended for rodents. This worries me, because even though I might not know much about what is safe to use on rodents, I certainly know that Neosporin is NOT safe.

The main problem is the neomycin it contains. When used on shallow scrapes on humans there are seldom any problems (except allergic reactions in some people). However, when delivered parenterally (in deep wounds or through injection) nephrotoxicity (kidney damage) and ototoxicity (ear damage) generally ocurrs. This damage is usually irreversable. This is why Neosporin and other "tripple antibiotic" ointments always say not to use on deep or puncture wounds.

Now with rodents this is even more of a problem. Because Neosporin is formulated for human needs, this makes it several times more potent when used on small mammals. When applied to a "surface wound" on a squirrel, the effects on the animal are as harmful as if you were to inject it into your blood with a syringe! If the thought of the squirrel suffering tinnitus, vertigo, hearing loss, and acute tubular necrosis isn't enough to spook you; if the squirrel licks and ingests some of the ointment, it can wipe out all bacteria in the intestines - causing a whole load of nutritional problems.

Next time you hear someone say they are using Neosporin (or any "triple antibiotic), tell them Ken said not to :shakehead. A better thing to use would be Polysporin, which is the same thing but with only the polypeptides (bacitracin and polymyxin) which are much safer then neomycin (which is an aminoglycoside).

Again, I don't mean to come across as a mean know-it-all or anything, just want to make sure people are aware of problems this common ointment can cause, since our little critters don't always tell us they're having side effects :)

muffinsquirrel

08-21-2007, 10:38 PM

Great info - thanks a bunch!

muffinsquirrel

TubeDriver

09-12-2013, 03:41 PM

I now realize my response may have sounded a bit rude, it wasn't meant to be :)

However, I think you brought up an important discussion point when you said a lot of people on this board use Neosporin. I actually just did a search and found a surprising number of threads in which this was recommended for rodents. This worries me, because even though I might not know much about what is safe to use on rodents, I certainly know that Neosporin is NOT safe.

The main problem is the neomycin it contains. When used on shallow scrapes on humans there are seldom any problems (except allergic reactions in some people). However, when delivered parenterally (in deep wounds or through injection) nephrotoxicity (kidney damage) and ototoxicity (ear damage) generally ocurrs. This damage is usually irreversable. This is why Neosporin and other "tripple antibiotic" ointments always say not to use on deep or puncture wounds.

Now with rodents this is even more of a problem. Because Neosporin is formulated for human needs, this makes it several times more potent when used on small mammals. When applied to a "surface wound" on a squirrel, the effects on the animal are as harmful as if you were to inject it into your blood with a syringe! If the thought of the squirrel suffering tinnitus, vertigo, hearing loss, and acute tubular necrosis isn't enough to spook you; if the squirrel licks and ingests some of the ointment, it can wipe out all bacteria in the intestines - causing a whole load of nutritional problems.

Next time you hear someone say they are using Neosporin (or any "triple antibiotic), tell them Ken said not to :shakehead. A better thing to use would be Polysporin, which is the same thing but with only the polypeptides (bacitracin and polymyxin) which are much safer then neomycin (which is an aminoglycoside).

Again, I don't mean to come across as a mean know-it-all or anything, just want to make sure people are aware of problems this common ointment can cause, since our little critters don't always tell us they're having side effects :)

Excellent info! :)