MBD Help!

[emma19]

I posted this in the new member section but realized I should have posted it here. Any help is appreciated!

My question is--How long does it normally take for a young squirrel to recover from MBD? A few weeks ago we took in an abandoned baby grey squirrel that we weren't able to reunite with his mother. I am not sure of exact age but he has fur and his tail is fluffed out. On Saturday he began showing acute signs of MBD--paralysis, seizures. (I am kicking myself because, having researched it, I now know this is a result of a lack of calcium which I did not realize was an issue before. Please know if he recovers I am absolutely on top of making sure this doesn't happen again!) On Saturday night we gave him approximately 500 mg of calcium and gave him another 500mg throughout the day yesterday. He has shown improvement in that the seizures have stopped, he doesn't seem to be crying out as much, and he is able to use is front legs and head fine and showed some more alertness, but his back legs still seem paralyzed. If you pinch his back legs or his tail, they react but otherwise they lay limp. It's now Tuesday morning and we're going to continue the calcium dosing today, but I'm wondering how long is normal for a recovery? Should we keep treating him? Take him to a squirrel rescue where maybe there is something more they can do? Humanely euthanize him? We don't want him to be in pain but we don't want to give up on him if there is a chance he can heal. We cannot find any vets in our area (Colorado) that will see him so we feel on our own. Any advice on how long a typical recovery takes would be much appreciated! We are very scared for him and want him to get better!

[CritterMom]

How old is he? What are you feeding him?

Can you get your hands on any prednisone or prednisolone? It is a human med - a steroid - used often in upper respiratory issues, muscle injuries, etc.

[emma19]

I am not sure of his exact age, as this is my first squirrel. We got him a few weeks ago and he was fully furred, but his tail had not yet fluffed out. Now it has fluffed out but he still is small and not fully grown. We had been feeding him nuts and fruit and had ordered rodent blocks that are ironically arriving today. Since this happened we got some kitten milk to mix the calcium with which he seems to like. Is prednisone or prednisolone available over the counter? We do not have anything like that on hand.

[HRT4SQRLS]

If he has been eating nuts and fruit it likely is MBD.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?32122-MBD-Treatment

You need powdered puppy Esbilac with probiotics and prebiotics.
Kitten formula is not good for squirrels.

Recovery takes many weeks.

[redwuff]

Hi Emma,

Can you post some pictures of him? He sounds young, perhaps 7,8, possibly 9 weeks old. Did he come in emaciated? Babies do not usually get MBD in such a short amt of time on a bad diet. See if you can get him to nurse using the formula Esbilac puppy formula. Please do not feed kitten formula. Kitten bottles sold in pet stores are also bad cos it causes the squirrels to aspirate. A 3-5 cc syringe would be best. Could he have fallen and hurt himself?

[emma19]

Thank you everyone! Here is a picture of him from a week or two ago, it's the most recent I have. I will switch to the Esbilac, I had gotten mixed information on the kitten vs. puppy milk. 305994

[redwuff]

Thanks for the picture. He is a beautiful foxer. What kind of shape was he in when got him?. How did you get him. You had him 10 days before he went 'down'?

If this is MBD, It unKnown how much recoverdry he will get back? It can be miraculous.

[emma19]

Thanks for the picture. He is a beautiful foxer. What kind of shape was he in when got him?. How did you get him. You had him 10 days before he went 'down'?

If this is MBD, It unKnown how much recoverdry he will get back? It can be miraculous.

Thanks for the response! Any estimate on how old he is based on the picture? And you think he's a fox squirrel not a grey squirrel?

We had him for about 4 weeks before he "went down." When we got him he was small but didn't seem overly emaciated, although we are not that experienced with squirrels so I don't know if we would have known. We found him in a McDonald's parking lot down the road from us and were unable to reunite him with his mother when we tried. Do you think it could be something else besides MBD? It seems fast based on what I've been reading, but it is certainly possible he could have already been somewhat malnourished when we found him.

Thank you again for all of your help!

[Sottinger]

Do you have a picture of him when you found him? Might be easier to age him when he was younger.

[emma19]

Do you have a picture of him when you found him? Might be easier to age him when he was younger.

Sure, this is him the day we found him (so approximately 4 weeks ago).



306005

[Sottinger]

So cute! I'm only familiar with greys but if they age the same I'd guess about six weeks in that photo.

[emma19]

Thank you everyone for the input! It is so nice to find a community who is so knowledgeable.

Does anyone think it might not be MBD or if there's something else we should treat him for?

Also, we noticed his urine is looking white today from the first two days of calcium. Does that mean we should dial it back? I don't want him to relapse but from what I read that means we need to reduce his intake. Any advice on either of these two issues would be much appreciated!

[Sottinger]

Is it possible he's taken a fall and injured himself? If so, then prednisone is the right answer and I saw someone posted that earlier. Could you call around and see if anyone you know has any? It's a fairly common human prescription. I've also read what you have about dialing back the calcium based on urine color but have not personally experienced it to give first hand advice.

[redwuff]

Yes I agree with Sottinger. Your foxer is betw 5.5-6 weeks old in that last picture. That makes him about 10 weeks old. Were you able to get any Esbilac puppy formula today? Please do not buy the canned liquid. It is not the same as the powder and causes major problems in the squirrels. Also do not buy anything other than the Esbilac. All puppy replacement powders are not the same.

One more thing to buy is a scale that weighs in grams. It is vital to keep tabs on his wt to see how he is doing, and if he needs any meds, being able to dose we must have his wt.

When I said he most likely did not have MBD with just two weeks on a bad diet, I have to change that knowing that you now said he has been on that diet for 4 wks. I am hoping that you can get him to take Esbilac even for a few weeks.

What kind of block did you order? It will be hard to get him to eat it since he has been eating nuts and fruit for a month. You WILL have to use tough love to get him to eat them. We can give you other hints also.

[emma19]

Thank you! I will get a scale for sure.

We ran out to get Esbilac today as soon as you posted that, although he so far has not been willing to drink it. He has always been resistant to syringe/bottle feeding even when we tried to give him pedialyte when we first found him. Any tips on how to get him to drink would be great.

The rodent blocks just arrived in the mail (Henry's Healthy Blocks) and he took a few bites right away, so fingers crossed he will keep eating them.

Do you think we need to dial back the calcium given that his urine is turning white?

Thanks again!

[emma19]

Is it possible he's taken a fall and injured himself? If so, then prednisone is the right answer and I saw someone posted that earlier. Could you call around and see if anyone you know has any? It's a fairly common human prescription. I've also read what you have about dialing back the calcium based on urine color but have not personally experienced it to give first hand advice.

It is possible he fell but we didn't see it. It seems unlikely since he was acting normal all day before and wasn't found anywhere unusual (he was sitting in his normal spot when it became apparent he couldn't move his back legs.) Would the prednisone hurt him if he didn't fall and we gave it to him?

[stepnstone]

I agree your dealing with mbd, this is the forum and protocol below for treating mbd.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?17680-Emergency-Treatment-for-MBD-(Updated-3-31-09)
Emergency Treatment for MBD

Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW. Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:

--Tums or calcium pills (any kind)
--a syringe, eyedropper, or spoon

Crush one Tums or calcium pill and add a little water or fruit juice. Use the syringe, eyedropper, or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone. Feed a total of 600-800 mg of calcium, and spread it out through the day and night to keep his blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

If the squirrel is having seizures, weakness, or paralysis, the symptoms will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones.

Long-Term Treatment for MBD

The next step to curing MBD is to fix the diet.

1. Remove ALL seeds, nuts, corn, and treats.

2. Follow the Healthy Diet For Pet Squirrels, which can be found at the top of the “Squirrel Nutrition” forum. (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=16093 (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16093)) Your squirrel MUST eat rodent block or squirrel blocks every day. If your squirrel doesn't like rodent blocks, you can try crushing them up with peanut butter or avocado temporarily. You can also make a tastier version of squirrel blocks using the recipe at the top of the Squirrel Nutrition forum.

3. In addition to the Healthy Diet, you will need to continue giving extra calcium every day for several weeks. Either use the syringe/eyedropper or you can try putting the calcium on a small piece of fruit.

Week 1: calcium = 500 mg per day
Week 2: calcium = 250 mg per day
Weeks 3-8: calcium = 100 mg per day

The cause of the acute symptoms—weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis—is a drop in blood calcium levels. If these symptoms return at any time, you will need to give another emergency dose of calcium.

More Tips
MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. Try to keep your squirrel away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone. Also, if he is in a tall cage, either place him in a smaller cage, or pad the bottom very well.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work.

[stepnstone]

It is possible he fell but we didn't see it. It seems unlikely since he was acting normal all day before and wasn't found anywhere unusual (he was sitting in his normal spot when it became apparent he couldn't move his back legs.) Would the prednisone hurt him if he didn't fall and we gave it to him?



It would not hurt him < WRONG) and mbd is painful, he needs to be allowed something to handle his pain.
Unrelieved pain has detrimental effects on healing, managing pain facilitates healing.

Edit:
You would not want to use prednisone when treating for MBD. Prednisone will lower serum calcium levels and you definitely don't want to do that.
Thanks for that information Hrt...

[emma19]

I agree your dealing with mbd, this is the forum and protocol below for treating mbd.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?17680-Emergency-Treatment-for-MBD-(Updated-3-31-09)
Emergency Treatment for MBD

Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW. Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:

--Tums or calcium pills (any kind)
--a syringe, eyedropper, or spoon

Crush one Tums or calcium pill and add a little water or fruit juice. Use the syringe, eyedropper, or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone. Feed a total of 600-800 mg of calcium, and spread it out through the day and night to keep his blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

If the squirrel is having seizures, weakness, or paralysis, the symptoms will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones.

Long-Term Treatment for MBD

The next step to curing MBD is to fix the diet.

1. Remove ALL seeds, nuts, corn, and treats.

2. Follow the Healthy Diet For Pet Squirrels, which can be found at the top of the “Squirrel Nutrition” forum. (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=16093 (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16093)) Your squirrel MUST eat rodent block or squirrel blocks every day. If your squirrel doesn't like rodent blocks, you can try crushing them up with peanut butter or avocado temporarily. You can also make a tastier version of squirrel blocks using the recipe at the top of the Squirrel Nutrition forum.

3. In addition to the Healthy Diet, you will need to continue giving extra calcium every day for several weeks. Either use the syringe/eyedropper or you can try putting the calcium on a small piece of fruit.

Week 1: calcium = 500 mg per day
Week 2: calcium = 250 mg per day
Weeks 3-8: calcium = 100 mg per day

The cause of the acute symptoms—weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis—is a drop in blood calcium levels. If these symptoms return at any time, you will need to give another emergency dose of calcium.

More Tips
MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. Try to keep your squirrel away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone. Also, if he is in a tall cage, either place him in a smaller cage, or pad the bottom very well.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work.

Thank you! Do you know if we should reduce the calcium intake if his urine is turning white?

[redwuff]

Calcium is excreted in the feces. If you see them turning a whitish color then that is a warning sign. Never heard of urine turning white. But of course I do not know everything.

[redwuff]

Thank you! Do you know if we should reduce the calcium intake if his urine is turning white?

Can you show us a picture of his urine. Did I tell you how much I love foxers. What is his name? Thank you for your willingness to learn.

[emma19]

Calcium is excreted in the feces. If you see them turning a whitish color then that is a warning sign. Never heard of urine turning white. But of course I do not know everything.

His feces is also turning white (not totally yet, but whiter than normal). Does that mean we should reduce the calcium?

I read about the white urine here: https://www.henryspets.com/emergency-treatment-for-mbd/

Thanks again!

[emma19]

Can you show us a picture of his urine. Did I tell you how much I love foxers. What is his name? Thank you for your willingness to learn.

I will try to take a picture next time it happens. His name is Ollie and we love him so much already. Our biggest concern is he won't seem to drink the puppy formula (with or without the calcium in it). As I mentioned above he's always been resistant to drinking from a bottle or syringe, he bit my husband today when he was trying to feed him. We're scared he won't take in enough calcium to fight this. Any tips on getting him to drink are appreciated!

Thank you!!

[redwuff]

Ok, kidneys extrete calcium also. I think that because he is quite young he needs way less. Let me find the thread that talks about this. Be right back.

[Sottinger]

I will try to take a picture next time it happens. His name is Ollie and we love him so much already. Our biggest concern is he won't seem to drink the puppy formula (with or without the calcium in it). As I mentioned above he's always been resistant to drinking from a bottle or syringe, he bit my husband today when he was trying to feed him. We're scared he won't take in enough calcium to fight this. Any tips on getting him to drink are appreciated!

Thank you!!

Try offering it in his usual water dish or bottle?

[redwuff]

I will try to take a picture next time it happens. His name is Ollie and we love him so much already. Our biggest concern is he won't seem to drink the puppy formula (with or without the calcium in it). As I mentioned above he's always been resistant to drinking from a bottle or syringe, he bit my husband today when he was trying to feed him. We're scared he won't take in enough calcium to fight this. Any tips on getting him to drink are appreciated!

Thank you!!

You might not be able to get him to drink, but hopefully we can. We have a secret weapon. It is called the burrito. Take a piece of fleece out shirt and wrap around him with his front feet tucked in. Put some formula in his mouth and see if he will drink it down. Take away allllllllll nuts and seeds and fruit. He will get hungry. Eating two to three hhb's will be great. See if that helps. Yes, at this age he has some teeth, so watch out for them. Put a hanging water bottle in his cage so he can learn to drink from that.

[Diggie's Friend]

Is the urine is white, like powdered white calcium, or clear like glass lacking any color at all?

[Nancy in New York]

If you try the formula and the burrito suggestion, remember to hold him so
he is upright and NOT laying on his back.
Always point the syringe up towards the roof of his mouth.
Sometimes they will take the syringe without the nipple. :dono
Just go slow.
Good luck with your little one.

[redwuff]

Emma,

I think you need to cut your dose in half for right now. I know that the protocol that is listed is for an adult squirrel. I also know the person who realized that is a TSB member, a nurse and a phenom of a rehabber. Let's get this straight for you. Sorry we did not catch this sooner.

[emma19]

Thank you! He hasn't had much today and we'll reduce it going forward to 250 mg. I think that's one rodent block so hopefully we can get him to just eat one!

[dr3am]

I had to get new syringes due to my babies chewing the tips off, so I bought some clean, smooth white stones from the pet store and added them into the bottom of a shallow butter dish and poured the warm formula over the top. They went right to it with no problem. They just lick it up and I pour more in til' they are done. Don't leave it in there for too long, it will get old and spoiled pretty fast. If you have a hard time with him taking the syringe you could try this. :dono (I also add a tiny bit of full fat vanilla yogurt to the formula and they seem to love-love it!)

My babies are also 10 weeks and 12 weeks....


306017

[HRT4SQRLS]

Earlier in the thread there was discussion about prednisone in case there was a fall involved. You would not want to use prednisone when treating for MBD. Prednisone will lower serum calcium levels and you definitely don't want to do that.

[stepnstone]

Earlier in the thread there was discussion about prednisone in case there was a fall involved. You would not want to use prednisone when treating for MBD. Prednisone will lower serum calcium levels and you definitely don't want to do that.

:goodpost
Have only ever used prednisone for spinal injury, did not know that! :eek
Thank you for that information Hrt! :bowdown

[emma19]

Our poor guy still can't move his rear legs 6 days later. They do twitch and move sometimes but he doesn't seem to have control of him. We are wondering how long we should wait and if this is humane for us to keep him going. He seems happy when we cuddle and pet him but the rest of the day he is mostly laying there and we're worried he's in pain and miserable. Does anyone know any rehabbers in Colorado (or Utah, Nebraska, Wyoming, Kansas, or New Mexico) that would be able to at least look at him and assess him? We don't want him to be in pain if he can't recover.

Also, he is excreting the calcium in both his urine and feces. His urine leaves a white stain now. We're reducing the intake but not sure whether that is a bad sign, too.

[redwuff]

Emma there are many threads on here that have squirrels that have lived long and purposeful lives with rear end paralysis. Look in the special needs section. You would have a lot of support concerning this issue.

As far as excreting the calcium in urine and feces, I would keep decreasing the calcium till he does not have calcium in his excretion. Too much also causes problems.

I do not know how long it will take to see if his hind end usage changes. I actually have never heard of a squirrellosing function in all four limbs.

If you are not up to taking on this baby for his life, let's see if he can be placed.

[redwuff]

Emma, can you show us a picture of him now? Does he appear in pain?

[Sottinger]

Redwuff, doesn't MBD usually start improving pretty quickly? Would you think it's possible it's an injury instead now that nearly a week has passed? That's what went through my mind anyway when I read this just based on other threads I've read.

[jbtartell]

My boy came in couldn't use back legs then he started twitching feet in about a week I had him on medicam and in 2 wks he was moving them and walking and in 3 wks he was all over... soo I would stop preds and get him on some medicam.. which will work for swelling and pain.. sounds like muscular trauma to me.. I would also stop the calcium.. keep hydrated fed and give medicam.. twitching is good... I deal with these babies a lot and even some adults..

[Chickenlegs]

A paralyzed squirrel can lead a wonderful life IF you are willing to give it to him. He’s like any squirrel—curious, playful, energetic, contrary, excited to explore his environment and crrrrrrrazy! He’ll need some adaptive cageing and opportunities to explore and break boundaries. My Scooter is older now and a little more content to be in his “houz” watching over his domaine but he still loves scoot time and can scoot as fast as any squirrel. He does get drag sores and his legs and boy parts are protected by a “skute” (leg protector that I can make for you if your baby needs it) when he’s out. He needs baths to keep him clean as he’s incontenint. He takes some time and commitment but is absolutely worth it. He is first and foremost my friend—my family. I sincerely hope he’s the longest lived squirrel on the planet but however long I’m blessed to have him in my life. Don’t give up on your little guy or think he’ll have no life as a “kept” squirrel. He CAN have the BEST life of any squirrel

[emma19]

Thank you, how do I get medicam? He seems much happier now but still won’t willingly move his back legs. It has only been one week but not seeing much improvement there. They do respond when pinched and so does his tail. Does anyone know any Colorado rehabbers we could take him to just to get their assessment?


My boy came in couldn't use back legs then he started twitching feet in about a week I had him on medicam and in 2 wks he was moving them and walking and in 3 wks he was all over... soo I would stop preds and get him on some medicam.. which will work for swelling and pain.. sounds like muscular trauma to me.. I would also stop the calcium.. keep hydrated fed and give medicam.. twitching is good... I deal with these babies a lot and even some adults..

[emma19]

I am wondering the same thing. I think it may be a spinal injury as there is a specific spot in his back that it seems dead beyond that point where he drags his legs when he crawls. Is there something different we should be doing for this? I think we may need to place him with a more qualified rehabber. We love him but we don’t have access to a vet in our state or medication you would get from a vet.


Redwuff, doesn't MBD usually start improving pretty quickly? Would you think it's possible it's an injury instead now that nearly a week has passed? That's what went through my mind anyway when I read this just based on other threads I've read.

[jbtartell]

Thank you, how do I get medicam? He seems much happier now but still won’t willingly move his back legs. It has only been one week but not seeing much improvement there. They do respond when pinched and so does his tail. Does anyone know any Colorado rehabbers we could take him to just to get their assessment?

sorry have not been online but medicam can be bought from a vets office.. if you know of one who will sell you some or maybe someone here can send u some pretty quick..