Mycoplasma arthritis??

[Shammie]

Is anyone here familiar with mycoplasma arthritis in squirrels? Can somebody tell me symptoms diagnosis and causes? My 3 week old appears to have some swollen joints. I've been speaking with other rehabbers trying to figure out what is going on with this poor guy and mycoplasma arthritis seems like a possibility but don't know much about?

[TubeDriver]

Can you post up photos and describe the symptoms? I wonder if young squirrels would get the benefit of maternal antibodies for some reasonable period of time? Treatment with tetracycline and steroids might work? But there could be other reasons for swollen joints....

[cava]

Is it just the one arm that you showed in the other post or are more locations swollen?

Frances, my first one, had swollen shoulder and elbow and turned her hand in when she bore weight on it. We determined it was damaged to the fall that caused me to get her (from a roof during a storm). It took a couple of months and she got pain management. I didn't pick up on the problem until she was mobile and felt absolutely terrible, but she recovered and was very active and agile and was released without problem.

Do you have access to a vet who could x-ray?

[Shammie]

Yes, i posted about this in another forum. I'm just so worried about him, now we noticed his knee on the same side is becoming swollen as well. I have had him for a week, would a prior injury just now show up like this? He turns his hand in too and kinda drags it along with him when he tries to walk... I feel like it is progressing very quickly and it really scary :( Another rehabber i spoke with thinks it might be mycoplasma arthritis and says there is no cure :sadness:boohoo He is also doing a little sneeze once in a while which apparently is a symptom of mycoplasma arthritis. I hope it is just from a fall and can be cleared up.. Cava, thank you, this gives me hope! My vet was not in today but I left a message with her, hopefully she will have time to see him tomorrow. I will post more pics...

[Shammie]

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[cava]

Also there are a few videos of Frances moving and her arm problems if it helps to compare, she was just opening her eyes, close to his age?

Again, as she grew up the "swelling" went away and she was just normal. She did miss a jump when she was six months old or so and required ibuprofen for a day but then was fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCy-No4qTI&feature=youtu.be

[redwuff]

Kiko,

A friend of mine had a baby that started swelling similar to what is going on with your baby. The swelling started in his face and then spread to his limbs. It spread quickly and she was able to get him to a vet who, after diagnostic tests confirmed necrotizing fasciitis. The meds he was put on were clavamox and clindamycin. Meds were given 7 days past resolution of symptoms.

Of course we don't know if this is the same as what is going on with your baby.

[Shammie]

Also there are a few videos of Frances moving and her arm problems if it helps to compare, she was just opening her eyes, close to his age?

Again, as she grew up the "swelling" went away and she was just normal. She did miss a jump when she was six months old or so and required ibuprofen for a day but then was fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCy-No4qTI&feature=youtu.be

This looks very similar to what my baby is doing! Except mine is more swollen. Was this video taken after the swelling went down?

[Shammie]

Kiko,

A friend of mine had a baby that started swelling similar to what is going on with your baby. The swelling started in his face and then spread to his limbs. It spread quickly and she was able to get him to a vet who, after diagnostic tests confirmed necrotizing fasciitis. The meds he was put on were clavamox and clindamycin. Meds were given 7 days past resolution of symptoms.

Of course we don't know if this is the same as what is going on with your baby.

Thank you! Yikes.. I googled necrotizing fasciitis and the pictures that came up were pretty horrifying.. did this other baby have any visible skin issues? Or just swelling?

[redwuff]

It was swelling under the skin like abscesses.

[Shammie]

It was swelling under the skin like abscesses.

necrotizing fasciitis*in people is very contagious and causes open wound bacterial infections.. the amputation of limbs is necessary to stop this infection from Spreading... is it different in squirrels?? Should I be separating him from the other babies? I will be getting meds for him tonight from another rehabber. Praying he will be ok.. I feel like the swelling has gotten worse :(

[Shammie]

Also there are a few videos of Frances moving and her arm problems if it helps to compare, she was just opening her eyes, close to his age?

Again, as she grew up the "swelling" went away and she was just normal. She did miss a jump when she was six months old or so and required ibuprofen for a day but then was fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCy-No4qTI&feature=youtu.be

Cava, what did you treat this baby with?

[TubeDriver]

The two possibilities here (NF or MP) really require different antibiotics. If you can get this one to a vet to get a culture done, that would be best.

[Shammie]

The two possibilities here (NF or MP) really require different antibiotics. If you can get this one to a vet to get a culture done, that would be best.

Yes, I have been trying to reach my vet that I am suppose to be working with as a rehabber. This will be the first time I've needed her since I recently received my license. I've left messages for the receptionist yesterday and today telling her it was an emergency and she has still not gotten back to me. She was not in yesterday and today she has surgeries all day.. ugh. :tap

[Shammie]

I was going to go in and try to pull out fluids from the swelling areas to see if it is pus filled but if it's a swollen joint issue, I dont want to poke around at it and make it worse

[cava]

I treated with ibuprofen to reduce inflammation and pain. Do you have the dosing info for infant ibuprofen or access to metacam?

You'll really don't know what abs to use unless you get a diagnosis but I think giving NSAIDS for pain and swelling would be ok, unless someone else thinks it's contraindicated.

[Shammie]

I treated with ibuprofen to reduce inflammation and pain. Do you have the dosing info for infant ibuprofen or access to metacam?

You'll really don't know what abs to use unless you get a diagnosis but I think giving NSAIDS for pain and swelling would be ok, unless someone else thinks it's contraindicated.

yes, I have Metacam. I will give him that tonight. I finally was able to reach my vet. I will be going there first thing in the morning.

[Shammie]

ok.. i can't seem to figure out the dosing for Metacam. My book says .02 mg for 100g. How would I measure such a tiny dose? It's just like a tiny granule..

[TubeDriver]

Is the Metacam in pill form? If so, what is the amount (ie 15mg pill for example). What is his weight? I can PM you accurate dosing directions.



ok.. i can't seem to figure out the dosing for Metacam. My book says .02 mg for 100g. How would I measure such a tiny dose? It's just like a tiny granule..

[Shammie]

Is the Metacam in pill form? If so, what is the amount (ie 15mg pill for example). What is his weight? I can PM you accurate dosing directions.

I have powder form. Another rehabber gave me a tiny bottle of it. He weighs 115g

[TubeDriver]

Do you have a scale that could accurately measure out 1.5mg of the powder?



I have powder form. Another rehabber gave me a tiny bottle of it. He weighs 115g

[Shammie]

Do you have a scale that could accurately measure out 1.5mg of the powder?

unfortunately not. I only have a gram scale.

[Shammie]

Maybe I should just wait till morning to see the vet, just worried about him. The swelling in his arm and knee has gotten worse, just want to keep him comfortable till morning. Poor guy :(

[Shammie]

Update:
I was able to get this boy to the vet last week. We did xrays, no broken bone that we could see. There was too much swollen soft tissue to get a good look at the joints. The vet thinks the smaller lump on his left leg looks more like it's in the femoral area and not the joint. We did not asperate in case it was a joint issue. He has been on Metacam and Baytril since Friday. The smaller lump on his back leg has gone down since almost all the way but I am still concerned about his front left arm. I thought it was showing improvements since the area seems to be softer but now it is starting to get bigger and I am very concerned. He is still active growing eating poop is fine. He's even using his arm more now even though there is a huge lump on it. It is not warm to the touch so it does not seem like an infection, more like soft tissue damage. I called the vet to update her today and she said we can aspirate and do a culture but she doesn't think it is an abscessed. I'm not sure what to do I am very new to being a rehabber and I have had no funds come in yet. I have spent a couple hundred dollars on vet bills on this boy so far, I feel so bad for him and want him to get the best treatment possible but I just can't afford to keep going with this, ive even tried to make a go fund me page for him but no luck.. im learning that no one seems to care too much about squirrels :( Any thoughts on what to do for this poor boy? Maybe wait it out and see if the meds will start working? I would think there would be more improvements by now. Just so strange, everything else is fine with him, seems like a very healthy boy.

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[Shammie]

So strange. This is a photo from this evening.. I've noticed this darker red spot and today it has gotten larger. Any ideas? Is further testing nessisary? If so, I will do what ever I possibly can to help this little guy.

[TubeDriver]

I am not sure what that is? But I don't think that soft tissue injury explains the hair loss? Hair loss is common with abscess.

So he has been on Cipro for 5 days? If the Cipro was working I don't think things would be getting worse/bigger at this point.

Without a sample and culture, it is just guesswork.

[cava]

It looks as if it's going to rupture and also looks like an abscess now.

[CritterMom]

Cipro is not going to do anything for this. It is fantastic for the things it fixes - aspiration pneumonia, UTI's, etc., but it does NOT work for abscesses. This thing needs to be drained and she needs to be put on something that WILL work like clavamox, or clavamox stacked with clindamycin. Your vet may balk at that - clav can be a little hard on their tummy, but if you start suplementing with probiotics - you can use the same capsules you get for humans in the drug store - it is used all the time with no issues. But the Baytril and Cipro - or ANY of the fluoroquinolone class of drugs just won't penetrate and fix this...

[Shammie]

I thought this was an abscess as well but according to the vet, it's not. She said the xrays showed that it was solid soft tissue not fluid filled. :dono

[Mel1959]

I think it’s safe to say that if he has been on an antibiotic for 5 days and you aren’t seeing improvement then it’s either the wrong antibiotic or it’s something that an antibiotic won’t fix. The fact that the vet says that she doesn’t “think” it’s an abscess, but is willing to aspirate and do a culture implies she’s not 100% certain it’s not an abscess.

I think you have two choices, either take him back for the vet to get a culture or try a different type of antibiotic like Crittermom suggested.

[redwuff]

Kiko,

Pus can be very thick and hard like soft tissue. My suggestion would be to use a warm compress and help it come to a head. Usually this thicker type of pus has to be "picked" out but if this is an abcess, it should open with a warm compress. I also agree with crittermom and Mel that antibiotics should be changed.

Trysh

[Shammie]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I just got off the phone with the technician. She said the vet would be willing to aspirate and culture but the cost for this is $292! Unfortunately I just dont have the funds to do this :( the medications I have on hand is cephalexin, and amoxicillin. I also have Clavamox but to the expiration on that is 2 years expired. Should I start them on one of these and what would the dose be? He is 155g Or should I try to get something different from my vet?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Get him to lance it. Forget the culture.

[Shammie]

Get him to lance it. Forget the culture.

This is what I asked them to do, she said we wouldn't be able to get anything out. I'm not sure how she is so sure of this.

[Shammie]

I will see if I can at least get some Clavamox from her, and try asking her again about lancing.

[Shammie]

Yay!! I just checked this baby and notice the puss started oozing out on it's own! I was able to squeez the rest out and flushed it with sodium chloride then chlorhexidine!

[TubeDriver]

Great! Make sure to gently squeeze it out and try to not cause any pus to be squeezed further inwards! I would start the Clavamox.

[cava]

Yay!! I would rinse again after the chlorhexidine. Depending if you diluted it, it can be irritating. Great work. Warm compress, like Redwuff said, will help that stuff drain. Gently teasing the scab off for a few days and allowing it to drain will help too.

PS. Time for a new vet.

[Diggie's Friend]

This is what I asked them to do, she said we wouldn't be able to get anything out. I'm not sure how she is so sure of this.


Yay!! I just checked this baby and notice the puss started oozing out on it's own! I was able to squeez the rest out and flushed it with sodium chloride then chlorhexidine!


When you get time you should call them and tell them how wrong she was about this squirrel's condition, and how our rehabbers here were right;

perhaps they can learn from you!

[Shammie]

Great! Make sure to gently squeeze it out and try to not cause any pus to be squeezed further inwards! I would start the Clavamox.

The vet gave me Trimethoprim, she thought this would be best.

[Shammie]

When you get time you should call them and tell them how wrong she was about this squirrel's condition, and how our rehabbers here were right;

perhaps they can learn from you!

Yes! I just sent an email to let her know and also sent her a picture of the puss oozing out 😏

[Shammie]

Yay!! I would rinse again after the chlorhexidine. Depending if you diluted it, it can be irritating. Great work. Warm compress, like Redwuff said, will help that stuff drain. Gently teasing the scab off for a few days and allowing it to drain will help too.

PS. Time for a new vet.

Thank you Cava!

[HRT4SQRLS]

The Trimethoprim should work fine. I’m guessing you’re referring to Trimethoprim /Sulfamethoxazole. It will even target MRSA.

By the way, I never thought this had anything to do with Mycoplasma. That would be a zebra in a herd of horses. :tilt

Keep flushing the wound or it will close and refill.

[HRT4SQRLS]

This is what I asked them to do, she said we wouldn't be able to get anything out. I'm not sure how she is so sure of this.

Wrong 🙄 :shakehead

[HRT4SQRLS]

PS. Time for a new vet.

Careful there. We need our vets. They are few and far between. Sometimes we can actually teach them.

[Shammie]

The Trimethoprim should work fine. I’m guessing you’re referring to Trimethoprim /Sulfamethoxazole. It will even target MRSA.

By the way, I never thought this had anything to do with Mycoplasma. That would be a zebra in a herd of horses. :tilt

Keep flushing the wound or it will close and refill.

Yes, Trimethoprim /Sulfamethoxazole. I will continue to flush it, should I continue using both chlorhexidine and the sodium chloride?

[Shammie]

Careful there. We need our vets. They are few and far between. Sometimes we can actually teach them.

This is true... and as I have learned, we all need to be careful when speaking down on other people even if its petty and not something we really mean. It can cost your your rehab licence :(

[Spanky]

This is true... and as I have learned, we all need to be careful when speaking down on other people even if its petty and not something we really mean. It can cost your your rehab license :(

Too often people do not consider how their words may impact others... just as often they simply fail to think!
:madd:(:grouphug

[TubeDriver]

Even vets can be mistaken, but we ALL make mistakes and hopefully learn from them so we don't make the same mistake a second time on the next animal we help.:great

[cava]

Careful there. We need our vets. They are few and far between. Sometimes we can actually teach them.

True. Good point.

[cava]

There's nothing wrong with seeking second opinions or looking for a different vet. She will be using them often if she's rehabbing so it's wise to find someone to work with who you trust and have success with.

[Mel1959]

How’s your little one doing? Is the abcess continuing to drain?

[Shammie]

How’s your little one doing? Is the abcess continuing to drain?

I have been continuing to drain the infection. Been using warm compress and flushing with sodium chloride. I just cut off the dead skin hoping it will heal quicker but it looks horrible :( here is a pic of him today.. should I wrap it with gauze dipped in sodium chloride or leave it open?

[Mel1959]

I’ve never dealt with an abcess before, but I think others have left it open so it can drain. Have you been using an antibiotic salve on it? That might help. I also know folks that swear by derma-gel for healing wounds.

[Shammie]

I’ve never dealt with an abcess before, but I think others have left it open so it can drain. Have you been using an antibiotic salve on it? That might help. I also know folks that swear by derma-gel for healing wounds.

I've been using this Derma Max. I sell this stuff in my pet salon, it's awesome stuff. Maybe I should try wrapping with this stuff?
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[Chickenlegs]

It looks awful but it also looks pretty clean. Dermagel is amazing stuff. Keeps the wound bed clean and moist. 100% non toxic. If there’s no active infection left— just raw flesh, maybe try Collasate. It’s a post operative dressing. It’s pretty darn viscious so may need a dressing but I’ve used it on some evil drag sores and it’s GOOD.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Kiki, what other antibiotics do you have?

Also, is the sodium chloride you're using a sterile saline solution?

[Shammie]

Kiki, what other antibiotics do you have?

Also, is the sodium chloride you're using a sterile saline solution?

He is on Trimethoprim Sulfa Suspension. I also have amoxicillin and cephalexin but I'm not sure of the expiration date on those. And yes I am using a sterile saline solution.

[Shammie]

It looks awful but it also looks pretty clean. Dermagel is amazing stuff. Keeps the wound bed clean and moist. 100% non toxic. If there’s no active infection left— just raw flesh, maybe try Collasate. It’s a post operative dressing. It’s pretty darn viscious so may need a dressing but I’ve used it on some evil drag sores and it’s GOOD.

Thank you. I just ordered dermagel, I'll have it by Tuesday.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Kiko, if you'll send me your address, I'll send you some Clavamox.

[Shammie]

so this sucks... just when I thought he was all compleatly healed up.. he is starting to develop another lump on his arm on the same spot, ugh! Don't know what to do for this poor boy :(

[Mel1959]

It sounds like all the infection may not have drained out. Did you treat with Clavamox?

[Shammie]

It sounds like all the infection may not have drained out. Did you treat with Clavamox?

i made sure the infection was completely drained before it healed up. I treated him with Baytril that wasn't working well so then I treated with TMS and it completely healed up. I feel like it is starting all over again, makes me think maybe it is mycoplasma arthritis.

[stepnstone]

i made sure the infection was completely drained before it healed up. I treated him with Baytril that wasn't working well so then I treated with TMS and it completely healed up. I feel like it is starting all over again, makes me think maybe it is mycoplasma arthritis.
Baytril was the wrong med to begin with, TMS has a slow activity level.
The link below w/ post #1 and #3 is very informative and will explain the difference and what meds are needed to successfully treat abscesses.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?40628-ABCESSES-IN-SQUIRRELS

[Shammie]

If it was just an abscessed, why would it completely heal up with no more visible wound? His fur is even growing back over the spot where the absess was. We had him on Bayril in the beginning because we thought it was something else going on with his joints. The lump is starting again like it was before, under the skin with no visible wounds. I feel like something else is going on with his joint that is causing the abcess.

[HRT4SQRLS]

That's actually very common. If the treatment isn't long enough or the antibiotic isn't optimal, the abscess will come back. Often a subpopulation of resistant or somewhat resistant organisms will persist and blow back up once the antibiotics are discontinued. There are also extenuating circumstances that will cause an abscess to come back. If there is a foreign body or bone/joint involvement an infection will come back. I doubt this is a foreign body. I know of a squirrel that was treated for literally months for a jaw/face infection. Every antibiotic was used including the CANNON antibiotics. They absolutely should have worked. They did work while being used but the infection came right back once discontinued. After months of treatment, while being surgically debrided a sliver of bone shot across the room. It was not seen on X-ray. With the bone sliver gone the wound healed beautifully in a few weeks after MONTHS of treatment.

If there is even slight bone or joint involvement a week of antibiotics definitely isn't long enough. It would take weeks of treatment. If this is below the skin it is unlikely to involve bone/joint unless of course it's over a joint.
Try the Clindamycin. I REALLY don't think this has anything to do with Mycoplasma.

[Shammie]

Thank you for the advice! I have another rehaber in my area that keeps thinking its mycoplasma arthritis, I hope not :/ I will try more antibiotics. Should I treat with Clavamox first? What would be the dowsing for 330g ?

[stepnstone]

Thank you for the advice! I have another rehaber in my area that keeps thinking its mycoplasma arthritis, I hope not :/ I will try more antibiotics. Should I treat with Clavamox first? What would be the dowsing for 330g ?
~ Requested dosing answered (through PM) in OP's other forum ~