Help -Siblings fighting? Male and female -bad to keep together?

[squirrelgirl30]

My two 1.5 yo siblings Snuffer and Monika have started fighting(?) One moment they are perfectly playful and "kind" to each especially when they were in a cage inside the house overwintering but since May i have moved the cage outdoor to the backyard facing the green belt ,and when Snuffer seems to be trying to play and chase Monika, she gets really aggravated and tries to hide anywhere possible expressing with loud sound her irritation and maybe fear? So last evening when Snuffer started his chasing game ( normally around 7-8 pm), I felt heartbreaking when Monika was trying to hide in a hanged cube and "was begging" - get me out of here!
Is it not natural to keep them at this age together because the possible mating behavior the brother expressing? He does not seem to be aggressive though , he used to play chasing games with her and me when I was cleaning the cage inside the house and letting them play around in a room but Monika is definitely perceives it as aggression now. So this evening things got bad, and Snuffer's ended up with the blooded bite/scratch(?) close to his mouse as the result of chasing/fighting. I felt terrible for both of them. I do not have a second portable cage at the moment but do I need to get one and separate them swiftly?

Please - looking for suggestions from experienced folks out here.

PS I have built a very nice big cage with separate nest houses for the soft release but now have a second thought if they should be kept together?

On the pics - used to be so peaceful together just recently

[HRT4SQRLS]

OK, this explains the wounds on the tail. When I saw your pics I wondered if those were injuries from fighting and now think they definitely are. This is a common problem. One squirrel will become dominant over the other as the other cowers to survive. This is a HUGE problem. I remember a case where a passive baby was nearly starved to death in the release cage by a dominant squirrel. The aggressor would not allow the other squirrel to eat. By the time the rehabber discovered the problem the passive one was nearly dead.

What are your plans? They need to be released soon or separated. How long have they been outside? I would release them. That will stop all of this nonsense.

Edit... outside since May. I would release them. That will settle down Mr Bully.

[squirrelgirl30]

Hi HRT,
thank you for response!

Yes, they've been outside since very end of May in portable indoor cage at my boyfriend's house backyard. I was just finished a big nice outdoor cage for them at my house's backyard which is 5 min away. They've been with me since about 5 days old, and for some reason i could not release them earlier at the proper age (some family tragedy I had to be taking care of). They are 1.5 yo now. I was actually having a lot of stress wondering if they are even releasable now. Is there any experience releasing squirrels after having them more then an year?
They are my first babies, and I really want them to survive.

So I've been told that they need to be put in outdoor cage for soft release to let them come and go when they feel ready. I feel extremely nervous to just let them loose. I am not going to be at boyfriend's all the time so thought to release them at my place. Now having to know more details, would you still recommend just release them from the cage they are in now and dont put them in a big 'soft release cage"?

...What's odd that the "bully" is the one having all bites and wounds. And it looks like some days they are perfectly in harmony.

PS I always there for evening meals to make sure Monika's getting her food too.


Thank you:hug

[HRT4SQRLS]

Yes, older squirrels can successfully be released. I have released several older pets.

I understand your situation. It sounds like the RC that you have built is much larger than the cage they are currently in. Yes, I would transfer them to the larger cage. With more room they will probably get along better but I would still watch them. Sometimes a change is good to distract them from fussing with each other. It would be ashamed to not use the cage that you built. It will give them a 'home base' to return to until they fully transition to the trees. Make sure they have a lot of shade as the temps are ridiculous lately. If they get along with each other, I would hold them a couple weeks and then release. If not, I'd release in as little as 3 days.

Don't be surprised if they don't return to the RC. Most of mine do not return to the cage. Once they hit those trees the RC loses its appeal. The exception is the winter. When it's cold they usually return to the nest boxes.
Do you have trees in your yard? What about predators like cats?

[island rehabber]

I agree completely with the above. These babies are more than ready for release and the male is aggressive because at his age he has gone through puberty, it is mating season everywhere and he wants to hop to it, for Godssakes :grin3. Your female may very well stick close by but I'll bet the boy takes off for his new, exciting life. Keeping them together any longer is very, very dangerous for the female. I know of a case just like HRT4SQRLS described where two bullying brothers starved their little sister.....although the rehabber separated her eventually it was too late; she died. :sad

[squirrelgirl30]

That is a great news that you have the experience with longer home stayed squirrel's release. This give me more comfort and piece of mind! What I wanted is exactly to have a "home base" for them. My yard is very small but have 2 big live oak trees. Thats' where their nest actually was, and was knocked down by the tree trimmers. I also plan to attach the squirrel House to the tree in case they want it in winter. I do have a neighbor's black cat normally hunt at my yard for birds.

My BF's yard is so much bigger with a green belt behind but also coyotes, bobcats and hawks, and no "home base". Dilemma...what place is better for them.

First tree pics are my place with RC (dont seem to be able to turn them). And other two - is where rolled cage is now at BF's

[squirrelgirl30]

Thank you Island Rehaber!
Thats what I was sensing - mating chasing season but I thought Snuffer got the parasites, and was trying to determine what kind so would treat it properly (look at my Unknown sore thread) so I postpone the release. HRT was helping a lot to sort it out, and now almost sure the lesions on his body is due to fighting. So I would get EMT or derma gel to treat it, and no need for Revolution? Could you also look at that thread and give your opinion please?
Thank you guys for taking time and helping with your advises!!! :grouphug

[squirrelgirl30]

Sorry for the little sister that dies from bulling... very sad story. Will make sure that wouldnt happened here. Thank you for warning again!

[HRT4SQRLS]

Well, I have to say that you built an AWESOME release cage. I'm jealous. :tilt That should settle him down a bit. They have plenty of room.
It looks like a tree line beyond your yard. As long as they have trees they should be fine.

The cat is another issue. I hope they were not raised around cats. If they don't recognize cats as predators they are an easy target. I will say this about squirrels. None of the releases in my yard had ever seen a cat. Maybe a few that I released for others had but the majority had not seen one. A while back there was a feral cat that I would occasionally see. Haven't seen one in a while. It was as predictable as the sun rising. I took note that if the squirrels in the trees go crazy... barking, tail flicking, in general chaos, somewhere there was a cat. I saw nothing. Every time I could find the cat. The squirrels alerted me to his presence. So, it appears that squirrels have some instincts about predators or they communicate that message with others. It's actually pretty wild. When one sets off they all start. :grin2

The problem with cats is that they are crafty and will lurk and pounce. Don't feed your squirrels on the ground. They are fairly safe from cats in the trees but on the ground they are vulnerable.

Nice pool. You might want to get one of those Critter savers that attaches to the side of the pool so they have an exit point. Squirrels can swim pretty well but if they can't get out they will drown.

[squirrelgirl30]

Hi HRT,
thank you sooo much for the knowledge you are sharing and the complement on the cage:Love_Icon

Snuff and Monika were not raised around the cats and probably never seen one so hopefully have the instinct to recognize the predators. And that cat is unfortunately hunts here every day.

There are some trees on my neighbor's yards as well but we all have small yards (not like BF's with the pool) and I always concern about people using the poisons to kill the weeds so thats why originally though the BF's house is better place for the release.

Thank you for the advice on the critter savers! I've never knew such things are existed. Will definitely buy one so any other critters would not be trapped if they get in a pool.

So now we are almost sure the lesions are not the parasites , would you say that Monika's tale volume loss is the result of bulling stress or is it natural for female squirrel to shed the tale hair in summer?

Sincerely thank you

[squirrelgirl30]

Here are some pics of her healthy tale a while ago and now

PS How do I turn pictures straight?

[HRT4SQRLS]

I don't think you can turn them. I think it's something to do with posting on a phone. It happens to me also.

These knarly tails drive us crazy. Sometimes they will have full luxurious tails and the next group will have scrawny little rat tails, lion tails or thin wispy, wimpy tails. We really can't say why. Give it time. The hair will regrow. It doesn't appear to be nutritional or parasite related. Maybe it's just a normal part of molting.
It's a phenomena we see in hand raised rehab squirrels as well as squirrels in the wild. We just don't know why. If it was something we could point to as a problem we could correct it but there really isn't.

I know you already treated them for presumed parasites.
By the way, I LOVE your beautiful orange fox squirrels. They are gorgeous. We don't have them in FL.

[squirrelgirl30]

Thank you again on the "molting" information. I am learning a lot!

And thank you from Monika and Snuffer for the complements! :hug

[squirrelgirl30]

Hello Again,
here are the recent pics of Snuff's problems. Maybe someone has an idea what that is -

I was about to move my guys to the new outdoor cage but noticed that Snuffer "nuts" look horrible like the grapes and some cuts (?) (sorry for sexual content ..lol) I dont now if it is due to the parasites left untreated after a dose of Ivermectin on a half walnut he did not eat completely or is it something else I have no knowledge on(ants bites?) but my heart is crying for the poor guy, and I am all stressed out. Please take a look at the pics, maybe you have seen it before and know what that is. The last dose of Ivermectin (he did not fully eat) was done on June,19 so it's been about two weeks ago. I just got my Revolution order form Joes Pets Med. Took two weeks to get it. So please remind me how to use it properly- just one drop at the shoulder blades?

Snuffer is extremely active now and I am not sure if he allows me to part his hair on a back to apply the med directly to the skin. If I just find a moment to press the tube through the cage to the top of the fur between his shoulder blades, would that be acceptable?

Another question, if he start to "clean/lick" his fur right after as he normally does with anything I put on his fur (healing wounds oils etc) and ingest some of the Revolution drop, is it OK or bad, and how to prevent it?
The tale wounds was suggested to be a fights results but other issue i can not figure out>

Monika is on the other hand, looks OK with no sign of parasites. Its just extremely hot 102F in Dallas, and she enjoys pieces of ice.

Thank you so much for responses.

PS there is a pic of the food moth I've noticed around the cage because of some nuts stash they had . Are those insects capable to leave the larvae into the squirrel's body? Just trying to figure out what the issue is....

[Mel1959]

Revolution is not harmful if it is ingested, as some folks dose by one drop on a nut. If you recently dosed with Ivermectin, I’m not sure how closely together you can dose with Revolution. I hope others will chime in with that knowledge. If you dose through the cage, remember you want to only administer one drop. I usually squeeze one or two drops onto a solid surface and then pull it up into a syringe. Then when I push the plunger I can administer the correct amount.

I have heard that a squirrels testicles go through changes and that they can also draw them up into their body to prevent injury when jumping. I’m not sure this is the case with your guy, but just an FYI. The picture of his testicles is very hard to see.

[squirrelgirl30]

Hi Mel1959,

than you for the great tip! I will definitely use the syringe for administering the meds. It's been 2 weeks since my attempt to use Ivermectin on Snuffer so I hope it is a safe gap between.

PS Sorry the picture quality of testicles is not good - all I could get with the phone camera.