New release sudden illness. Early pneumonia?

[Coffeeculturegvl]

I’m going to call this an emergency due to Bean’s severe dehydration and my concern about what might be causing her upper respiratory symptoms.
I found her in her old sleep sack this evening in the release enclosure she hasn’t used for weeks.
I immediately knew she wasn’t alright.
Eyes half lidded, didn’t come out, and she let me reach in and touch her without freaking out but instead welcomed the contact, lifting the arms, nuzzling, etc. She hasn’t allowed that since she was fully weaned.
Sneezing, slight nasal drainage, high pitched whistly wheeze, started making some intermittent clicking but it’s hard to say if it’s coming from upper or lower respiratory. More like nasal congestion but my confidence is low regarding knowing the difference. It’s not constant. I think she certainly has some mild chest congestion. She acts exhausted. She’s hot. I know she’s running a fever but I don’t know how to take it. Foot pads and under arms are extra warm/hot, nose is dry and warm/hot, eyes slightly sunken.
She looks half her normal size. Skin bunches at her shoulders with classic dehydration signs. Pee is dark orange. Poop well defined pellets but very dark, mostly dry, and dense.
Brought her inside. She allows me to hold, manipulate, and restrain her without any biting or aggression or even significant struggle.
Got 4 mL of honey water in her about an hour ago and another 5 mL just now. (I found the recipe on the board for homemade dehydration fluid and will push that as soon as I can go make it. She’s wrapped in her old baby blanket, stuffed down the front of my shirt now, sleeping.
She climbed out to pee and poo but hasn’t tried to explore. My two boys are in their cage in here and she hasn’t even acknowledged them.
She’s sometimes making a weird mouth sound, like chewing lettuce really fast. Not teeth chatter, though.
I’ve checked her over well for any injuries but nothing is apparent.
I can’t get an exact weight on her since my scale isn’t at home.
But if she was about her normal pound one day ago, she’s probably up to 25% lighter now as my best guess.
The weather has been awful for days on end now, alternating almost hourly between sun, rain, and storms. North central Florida.
Early pneumonia would be my main concern. Or Virus? How do I tell?
It’s disturbing how docile and handling-tolerant she is right now. So out of character. Ears either normal or back but not folded flat.
I’m going to aggressively treat the dehydration by pushing as much fluid as she’ll take every hour.
What symptoms am I supposed to look for that would indicate I need to do more than that?
Thanks for any advice.

[stepnstone]

Have you checked her teeth for damage, is she able to eat anything solid?
If you were to treat for respiratory, what meds are available to you?

[Coffeeculturegvl]

No visible tooth damage.
She’s more congested and sounds upper AND lower respiratory now. She’s alert if I wake her but still and quiet. She took another 2 mL of hydration but I wish it was more.
I have on hand:
Azithromycin
Clavamox
Bactrim

Being very concerned, I started the azithromycin already. I have the dosage for the that one for her approximated weight from my other squirrel when he had a dangerous respiratory illness so I mixed it and she’s had one dose of that. If I remember correctly, though, the Bactrim would be better? But I don’t know the dosing and I didn’t want to take any chances.

I haven’t offered any food because she’s so dehydrated.


Have you checked her teeth for damage, is she able to eat anything solid?
If you were to treat for respiratory, what meds are available to you?

[Mel1959]

I think you were smart to start treatment. It sounds like your little girl really doesn’t feel good. I think the azithromycin will work, especially if you had previously been advised to use it for respiratory problems. I don’t know if it is as broad spectrum of an antibiotic as Clavamox, I hope others with more knowledge will chime in.

Does the movement with her teeth seem like a sign of pain or discomfort? Or do you think it has to do with her having difficulty breathing?

Isnt it nice when they know enough to come home and let you take care of them when they don’t feel good? :Love_Icon

[Coffeeculturegvl]

She is still noticeably sick, but explored a bit today and is much less interested in direct contact or holding by me. Her breathing seems a bit labored, but with what seems like normal RPMs. I’m trying to entice her back to the warm and quiet “bundle of blankets” nest I’ve made her which I can hold but she’s chosen the boys hammock strung up near the ceiling.
She ate a tiny bit of lettuce, sweet red pepper, and half a pecan. Still not wanting to drink.
And what is the deal with squirrels fur looking darker orange-brown when they’re REALLY sick? This is the 3rd one of mine to do that color change and now I notice it in some of the wilds that come around. It’s weird... but helpful as a severity gauge.
She only makes the teeth swishing noise (bad description) occasionally. It’s not really concerning me.
I’ll keep up with the azithromycin unless I hear different from the seasoned vets here.
I think you were smart to start treatment. It sounds like your little girl really doesn’t feel good. I think the azithromycin will work, especially if you had previously been advised to use it for respiratory problems. I don’t know if it is as broad spectrum of an antibiotic as Clavamox, I hope others with more knowledge will chime in.

Does the movement with her teeth seem like a sign of pain or discomfort? Or do you think it has to do with her having difficulty breathing?

Isnt it nice when they know enough to come home and let you take care of them when they don’t feel good? :Love_Icon

[Coffeeculturegvl]

She’s worsened!
Mouth breathing. Sounds awful.
Time for emergency vet and IV AB’s?
Please advise ASAP.

[Nancy in New York]

She’s worsened!
Mouth breathing. Sounds awful.
Time for emergency vet and IV AB’s?
Please advise ASAP.

So sorry, I'm just seeing this now.
Do you need dosing, or are you going to the vets.
IF you need dosing give me the strength of the Clavamox
and the weight of your squirrel, OR guesstimated weight.

[Coffeeculturegvl]

Thanks. I took her in. After Grayson’s scare last year, I just panicked.
It HAD begun to move down lower. Wheezing, but no pneumonia crackles. Bean was alternating in and out of distressed mouth breathing. The vet stacked smp/tmz on top of the azithromycin I’d already started. She said I’d estimated that perfectly for her 378g weight. She opted for the smp/tmz over the Clavamox to avoid potential stomach and diarrhea effects. Nasal decongestant added also and orders to take her back in if she has further episodes of respiratory distress that don’t resolve. So far, so good.

Unfortunately, her questionable eye was finally assessed (I’ve posted a couple times about that the last 6 months) and the vet said she has a congenital cataract and is most likely completely blind in that eye or very little peripheral vision. She couldn’t see any of her retina, though. So while Bean was managing fine as a release, it exponentially increases her odds for predation. Whether to release her again or not is now a judgement call.

Could use some opinions on that. Probably a new thread since that isn’t an emergent problem.


So sorry, I'm just seeing this now.
Do you need dosing, or are you going to the vets.
IF you need dosing give me the strength of the Clavamox
and the weight of your squirrel, OR guesstimated weight.

[Coffeeculturegvl]

Bean is backsliding a little today. She’s getting all snotty and clogged up again but it comes and goes. Is an up-down recovery a normal occurance and just keep administering the meds or should I be concerned?

Obviously, I’m keeping a close eye on her. Since she was feeling better, I’ve let her run about the room. Which is most of the day. I haven’t really left the room much at all since I brought her in. Maybe too much too soon and keep her in the cage?

I’m more concerned this is a sign the AB’s arent working enough and to stack another (or drop one and add one, etc) or get her back to the vet ASAP.
I don’t want to wait and have her go into respiratory distress again if this is something I need to act on now.
When Grayson wasn’t recovering completely last year, I was advised to start Clavamox and he cleared right up. I have that AB on hand if that’s the right call.
Advice?

[TubeDriver]

Cipro works well with respiratory infections and is broad spectrum. Clavamox is also a good AB but usually not the first line for pneumonia like stuff. SMZ/TMP can take a while to start working. How many days has she been on it (5 days)?



Bean is backsliding a little today. She’s getting all snotty and clogged up again but it comes and goes. Is an up-down recovery a normal occurance and just keep administering the meds or should I be concerned?

Obviously, I’m keeping a close eye on her. Since she was feeling better, I’ve let her run about the room. Which is most of the day. I haven’t really left the room much at all since I brought her in. Maybe too much too soon and keep her in the cage?

I’m more concerned this is a sign the AB’s arent working enough and to stack another (or drop one and add one, etc) or get her back to the vet ASAP.
I don’t want to wait and have her go into respiratory distress again if this is something I need to act on now.
When Grayson wasn’t recovering completely last year, I was advised to start Clavamox and he cleared right up. I have that AB on hand if that’s the right call.
Advice?

[Milo's Mom]

Over the past few weeks I've worked with two different people with squirrels that have had similar symptoms as to what you're describing. However, one of the squirrels had bright green poop. We brought a vet in on the case with the green poop and Amoxi was suggested. In both cases the squirrels were in really bad shape. They are both doing well today. In both cases the owners had access to Amoxi/Clav (Clavamox) immediately so that's what they both used.

The vet said if the Amoxi didn't work to add the Baytril to it. We didn't have to do that.

Also, for what it's worth, I've never had luck with azithromycin in squirrels. It seems to work in the beginning but then it's like it stops.

[Mel1959]

I’d start the Clavamox asap. When I had little ones with respiratory issues I stacked Clavamox and Baytril and they cleared up.

[Coffeeculturegvl]

Yes 5 days on small/tmp and 6 days azithromycin. (Concurrent) She was getting much better, almost fine, and then last night the sniffles and some sneezes. By this afternoon she’s blowing small snot bubbles and I got out the bulb syringe again. Hard to tell, but maybe some retractions after running around a bit.
I’ll check when I get home but I believe I also have augmentin.
Cipro works well with respiratory infections and is broad spectrum. Clavamox is also a good AB but usually not the first line for pneumonia like stuff. SMZ/TMP can take a while to start working. How many days has she been on it (5 days)?

[Coffeeculturegvl]

No green poop. Hers is just dark, dark brown- basically black. NOT blood in stool (I think it’s just the wild diet. My other bounce-backs were the same. ) And I tend to agree with you about the azithromycin. Same thing with Grayson last year. Just seemed to quit working. But it’s the only one I has that I KNEW the dosing before TSB people started chiming in :) Vet said continue it.

Over the past few weeks I've worked with two different people with squirrels that have had similar symptoms as to what you're describing. However, one of the squirrels had bright green poop. We brought a vet in on the case with the green poop and Amoxi was suggested. In both cases the squirrels were in really bad shape. They are both doing well today. In both cases the owners had access to Amoxi/Clav (Clavamox) immediately so that's what they both used.

The vet said if the Amoxi didn't work to add the Baytril to it. We didn't have to do that.

Also, for what it's worth, I've never had luck with azithromycin in squirrels. It seems to work in the beginning but then it's like it stops.

[Milo's Mom]

No green poop. Hers is just dark, dark brown- basically black. NOT blood in stool (I think it’s just the wild diet. My other bounce-backs were the same. ) And I tend to agree with you about the azithromycin. Same thing with Grayson last year. Just seemed to quit working. But it’s the only one I has that I KNEW the dosing before TSB people started chiming in :) Vet said continue it.

My vet said the same thing and the squirrels continued to get worse. I stayed the course for 14 days and watched them get sicker and sicker. Finally I made the change and told the vet about it after the fact...after they were healthy. The most recent one was my guy named Little Dude. He had necrotizing fasciitis (NF) and the vet kept telling me to stay on azithromycin...his little body kept erupting with abscesses. I asked and asked and the vet said continue. I didn't, I made a change, Little Dude survived and all his abscesses healed nicely.

Seriously, please consider a med change. I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't feel so strongly about it. :grouphug

[TubeDriver]

Yea, I think if you see a WORSENING of symptoms after 5 days, you probably want to try something else. I would start the Augmentin (Clavamox). Probably stop the SMZ/TMP and continue with the azithromycin.

The Clavamox has Gram positive/negative action while the azithromycin has some overlap as well as a few additional atypical organisms that could cause respiratory infections (so the stacked combo will help slightly broaden coverage). I am not sure if the azithromycin is doing anything since it was not working but may as well keep it onboard for now, stacked with the Clavamox. This is certainly not my area of expertise, member HRT4SQRLS has considerably professional experience with these medicines and a PM to her for advice might be helpful?