Losing my Hunny Bun

[Snicker Bar]

If I need to post this in a different section, I will and apologize;but I wanted to reach out to any rabbit people. We only have one exotic clinic here, and the DVM is not on call this weekend. I thought I could manage this myself, researching empirical treatment options on a Veterinary network we have access to. But his condition is deteriorating fast. His appetite has gradually declined over last few days. I assumed it was the heat; although they are well ventilated and have fans. But he became completely anorectic by Wed. His urine had a strong odor so I started Meloxicam and Baytril, thinking possible UTI. No response Th or Fri. And by last night he started teeth grinding. He also has very tiny feces, like a squirrel’s. This morning we took him to my colleague/friend who has worked up a few rabbits. She gassed him down and did blood work. His urine had a strong positive for blood, but she had to stick him multiple times :( and he finally just voided. So she thinks it’s a false positive. In her opinion it’s a GI thing. She gave him 500 ml sub q fluids, an injection of Baytril, and prescribed only metoclopramide.

If any here rehab rabbits, what is the best thing I could force feed him? He’s got every green available , but going on day 4 no food in stomach. He’s still teeth grinding , which I’m afraid is a sign of pain. I’m thinking maybe adding daily Meloxicam , and continuing the Baytril since his chemistries are fine . He can’t go on, not eating ; starving himself to death. This is not your basic , no brainer ‘give a scoop chow, check water, that’s all’ kind of rabbit. He is a very loved , dear family member

301460

[Nancy in New York]

Reach out to Milo's Mom.
She's good with bunnies, and she knows a
member in Canada, Runestonez, that rehabs many bunnies.
Prayers for you little one. :Love_Icon

[HRT4SQRLS]

Oh no, sorry to hear this SB.
I don't know anything about bunnies but I have read the threads here about GI Stasis in bunnies. I'll see if I can find a thread about it on the board while you're waiting for help.
In the mean time here's a link I found about the condition.
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

[Snicker Bar]

I will private msg Milos Mom; and thank you H4Sqrs. I know I read about some sort “ Clinacare” liquid , but I wouldn’t be able to order until Mon., and receive by Tues. Maybe MM will know some homemade options, or even maybe certain baby food mixes.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Haven't found a great thread but the ones I found all said give simethacone to reduce the gas.

[Toddy]

I'm sorry this is happening to your bunny SB...
When my rabbit had a similar issue, I used Oxbow Critical Care. It is a nutritionally complete powder for herbivores, which can be mixed with water (or any other liquid), or baby food. If mixed with water, it can be syringe fed throughout the day to aid in rehydration and get some much needed food into the stomach and GI tract. Vet offices usually carry it, as well as some pet stores. I hope this helps... :grouphug

[Baxied]

:grouphug He's beautiful! Sending positive thoughts and prayers that he feels better soon. :grouphug

[Snicker Bar]

Ill check Pet Co and Pet Smart now

[Rexie]

i see oxbow critical care has been suggested. it is full of nutrients to aid in a health crisis. sending love and healing vibes for a speedy recovery

[cava]

Since they are little fermentation machines you want to consider the flora in his gut. Be sure you are giving a probiotic to balance his stomach bacteria. The baytril will kill the bad stuff but will also upset the good stuff. He can't digest food without it.


Any chance you could give him cecotropes from another bunny to help with this?

[Milo's Mom]

Oxbow critical care herbivore
Probiotic
Gas x by the gallon
Check his teeth
Bunnies start heat stress at 80 degrees...mine stops eating when the house is 78.
Stimulate to potty it encourages gut movement

I don't have pm feature turned on and I won't turn it on . Email me if I'm needed please. Milosmom041610 @ gmail . Com (remove spaces)

I will contact my bunny people for additional ideas.

[Milo's Mom]

metoclopramide is good
Using your stethoscope listen to his gut for movement noise

Waiting to hear back from bunn peeps

You're gonna have to syringe/force feed him the crit care.

[Snicker Bar]

Thanks for the supply lists ; we have some things here but may not be able to get the Oxbow until Monday . But will try the other things ( stimulation); and we have an employee that has a couple rabbits , and can get the other donations . His teeth grinding is horrible; giving metacam now at 1mg/kg.

[Milo's Mom]

Crit care is at just about every pet store and even Wal-Mart

Yes to metacam you can go a tad higher if you need too

[Milo's Mom]

Soak his pellets in water and blend them in a blender to make a slurry

[Snicker Bar]

Found some Simethicone in our first aid kit; haven’t had that since kids were in diapers . And went up to 1.5mg/kg Meloxicam . And made the slurry ; gave him about 15 1.0 ml servings. Also two golf balls of sub q fluids . Then a kiss, chin rub and prayer. Will head to Walmart first thing tomorrow for the Oxbow

[Milo's Mom]

Will you please email me your phone number? Milosmom041610 @ gmail . com One of my bunny peeps wants to talk to you.

[Snicker Bar]

I sure will; he’s still alive; and took couple nibbles of kale but barely. I gave him his metacloprmide, gas medicine, and then had to tear out to office. But going straight to store for the Oxbow and anything else that could help. I have lactulose here, and some probiotics for dogs/cats; not sure if they can help. He won’t need Meloxicam until tonight; and as others said, maybe I should stop the Baytril. Sending number now. If doesn’t work I’ll just post it here,

[Milo's Mom]

I will go check my email right now. Don't feed him anything else till you talk to the bunny person. If he is in pain you may dose the Metacam as often as every 8 hours. Bunny person will have specific instructions for you.

[Milo's Mom]

You posted here 30 minutes ago. I just checked my email and I have nothing from you. Have you sent it?

[Snicker Bar]

Forgot to mention he did urinate last night, but not in his litter pan. Just peed where he lay on his blanket. At some point he must have hopped into the pan to poo.. but it was basically just a small blob of tiny poo pieces in a cluster , looked like ( and size ) of a blackberry. Still teeth grinding . Looking for probiotics; apparently we are out :(

[HRT4SQRLS]

Marie, I think your last post about bunny was on your flyer thread if your looking for it. I know, a lot going on. :)

[Snicker Bar]

I tried , our service must be messed up idk. Had some bad storms. I trust this board; no worries ; like a
Meant to add this but posted in in wrong thread ; brain on empty here.

Originally Posted by Snicker Bar View Post
Forgot to mention he did urinate last night, but not in his litter pan. Just peed where he lay on his blanket. At some point he must have hopped into the pan to poo.. but it was basically just a small blob of tiny poo pieces in a cluster , looked like ( and size ) of a blackberry. Still teeth grinding . Looking for probiotics; apparently we are out

Yes wrong thread; too much this weekend. We are on kennel duty today with my teens; of course on our day, every single one had to leave us a pile in cages and runs even though walked twice daily . Had a lab at house in ICU building blowing out bloody diarrhea, but she is well now;just sent home :) One happy ending. And the bunny crashing . Need a monster drink and bc powder

I’ll try and e mail again now

[Nancy in New York]

Marie, I think your last post about bunny was on your flyer thread if your looking for it. I know, a lot going on. :)

I caught that and just moved it here. :thumbsup

[Milo's Mom]

Are you at home with the bunn right now? Or where ever you are can you be hands on the bunny?

[Milo's Mom]

I got the number if admin wants to delete it

[Milo's Mom]

Bunny peep is calling you RIGHT NOW!

[Snicker Bar]

Just talked , what a blessing thank you so much. Got my list of things to get , and instructions for treatment; done cleaning poo. Y’all are amazing , will see if this works.

I won’t post my number again , sorry just panicking . Thought my e mail was crashed .

[Milo's Mom]

Just talked , what a blessing thank you so much. Got my list of things to get , and instructions for treatment; done cleaning poo. Y’all are amazing , will see if this works.

I won’t post my number again , sorry just panicking . Thought my e mail was crashed .

Excellent! Glad you 2 could connect. Once we (you) get him through this we'll work on the other stuff. No worries about posting your number on the board! We do it all the time and then we have our awesome admin team to come in and clean up! :grin2

I just got an email from you but there is just text and no phone number! LOL!! No worries, we are good. Get your stuff and get to work. Email me if you need me and I will reply to your email with my phone number so you can call me too (just in case I don't hear the ping of my email).

[Snicker Bar]

Just got finished with fluids and medicines. Hunny Bun did nibble just a tiny bit of Cilantro, and a couple dandelion leaves. Not enough to sustain life, but at least some interest in food. He still mostly just wants to lay, and grind teeth. Had the kindest person (from Canada!) call , after Milos Mom contacted her on our behalf. Can’t thank the two enough . Learned so much in one conversation; it’s most like his diet ( my fault); wayyy to much kale and clover. And many other things we need to change, if he pulls through. There are a few more tiny poos here and there, but still must have gas and lieus , as diagnosed by the Canadian ( I can’t remember her name , or anything else at the moment :( ) based on the symptoms he’s having. Going to do everything she and others here Have suggested. She said typically they don’t last more than a day or two; so the fact he’s still alive is encouraging. Thanks again all here , will see what tomorrow brings .

[Snicker Bar]

Hunny is doing so much better today! Much more bright and alert, and nibbling a bit more on his own. He’s still pruducing very small pellet - poos, but at least something is coming out. His urine has a very foul odor, and some blood. So whether the needle sticks my colleague made in an attempt to get urine caused or not, I think some Baytril may be needed at least couple days. I can’t find the Oxbow critical care anywhere but will order some probiotics for rabbits. Thanks again for all the help; if he pulls through, we have many changes to make. Keeping fingers crossed,
301492

Bunny ICU with prehistoric (17!) kitty/nurse checking water quality

[Nancy in New York]

Amazon has critical care. If you have Prime you'll get it faster.
So glad that Hunny is doing better!
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Oxbow+critical+care+

[Milo's Mom]

Any chance you can get him into the exotic vet now that it's not the weekend?

As Danielle mentioned with him being unaltered and his diet there may be other things going on as well. Have you mentioned the extra smelly urine to Danielle? Is the blood fresh red or old and dark? Could the smelliness be due to the blood?...just me thinking out loud on a keyboard. :grin2

Glad to hear things seem to be improving! :multi

[Snicker Bar]

I actually called the College of Vet Med here in MS, and was going to grab credit card and him and just go... and THAT Dr. was off today !?! I should have gone into exotics... if only knew then, what life changes would happen here ( squirrels , bunny, baby fox). But he will be there tomorrow. And if he’s not back on food any better, he’s going for ultrasound . I saw some blood on the tile , mixed with urine. So I gave him a dose of IM Baytril ( at 5 mg/kg). Going to continue all the other things as well, including slurry. But dang at the shortage of exotic people here :( !

[Mel1959]

How’s your hunny bun doing? :hug

[Snicker Bar]

I took a phone fast for the day, middle child turned 17 today :) And starting yesterday, through this AM I was convinced he was getting better. He began eating with intention, not just nibbles. The odor of his urine was horrifying last two days , and it has lightened up. But now, he’s back droopy and won’t eat. I’ve kept up the simethicone, the metocloprmide, Meloxicam, Baytril and subQ fluids. Very little stool considering the amount he ate up until around 4:00 today. I have to work tomorrow so plan on taking him, and will try to get a consult again with Milo’s M’s friend who is a rabbit expert . I just wonder, how long does this GI stasis linger; or could it be some sort of partial blockage... Can I do a barium study? And other questions . He’s going to die if I can’t get him eating and pooing. I truly thought things were taking a turn for better . Maybe we can get some more answers tomorrow.

[Milo's Mom]

I'm not sure if this has been conveyed appropriately or not but there should be a sense of urgency like you've never seen before. He needs a qualified vet and he needed it a week ago. Homemade treatments are designed to get through a couple days when a vet isn't available.

This isn't a we will see him next week. This is my bunn is in stasis I'm coming in right now so you can work us in. This is a lights and sirens emergency. This must get cleared or his gut will die if it hasnt already.

Please drop everything.. .cancel life...and get him to a vet.

[island rehabber]

:attention

[Snicker Bar]

Yes ma’am :)

He is being transferred as we speak; not wasting time with our x rays etc . We found a clinic about 2 hrs away that has everything the college could have...
And maybe also good sign (?), the lady DVM’s name is also Dr. Emerson! So maybe excellence in exotics runs in that family line . I’ll post what they find as we get answers today. Thank you for all the help, encouragement here :)

[Milo's Mom]

Yes ma’am :)

He is being transferred as we speak; not wasting time with our x rays etc . We found a clinic about 2 hrs away that has everything the college could have...
And maybe also good sign (?), the lady DVM’s name is also Dr. Emerson! So maybe excellence in exotics runs in that family line . I’ll post what they find as we get answers today. Thank you for all the help, encouragement here :)


:great :bliss:w00t:clap:dance:thumbsup:thankyou:thankyou: thankyou:thankyou:thankyou:crazy

Thank you! Please do keep us updated. Positivities and prayers for you and Hunny Bun continue.

[stosh2010]

LONG Distance PRAYERS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Snicker Bar]

Thank you,

This Dr. Emerson must be from the same family tree as the one in Fla. It’s her day off, but the Dr. on call just told me she is taking him home for the night , for force feeding and suppotive care. I may not have been aggressive enough, with the force feeding :( After one or two gruel feedings, and the simethicone multiple times daily, he started nibbling greens fairly well by Sun. , Mon. but started slacking again last night. May be some hard lessons learned on my part :( I hope that’s not the outcome.

If he needs surgery, the rehab. DVM at our local vet school told me this AM she chooses HER over the staff DVM at the college. She does all her wildlife surgeries as well. She was out of town Fri through now. But he’s going home with her today, and will bring him back to her office tomorrow . I’m very impressed, and grateful. Just wish she had been available sooner , and that I underestimated the seriousness of his inconsistent signs. It’s like he was fooling me; just enough nibbles ..

[Milo's Mom]

Wonderful! Thank you for the update.

If you have a chance to talk to the vet, please mention the concern for crystals, stones, or sludge in the bladder. These would be due to the alfalfa in his diet and are pretty common. Not saying it is happening but it's pretty common and there could be more than one thing going on.

THANK YOU!!! For taking him in and for allowing her to take him home for the night. It's very difficult to hand over a beloved furry one. :grouphug

[Snicker Bar]

I’ll text that to her right now. She said he was already acting livelier , hopping around etc. But this is the very thing that happened with me for the last 5/6 days. Perk up with fluids and meds, eat a little , then sink again . And the urine stench day before yesterday was horrific; run Snickers out of her bathroom condo. I agree and just sense it’s got to be more than just the gut thing :(

[Snicker Bar]

Just received an update; Dr. Emerson (of MS) says she thinks he ate something that interfered with his gut function, and caused him to colic. She said she could not palpate a mass , but is going to do X rays today to make sure things look normal. She is force feeding him the Critical Care formula , and said we will have to continue this until bisnguts start working . I guess that’s the part I misunderstood; after he started voluntarily eating some fresh greens, I thought I could back off . Still learning here about these rodent types :(
He may get to come home today; she wants to wait until after lunch and see how poos look. I also mentioned my concerns about his kidneys/urine stench plus blood. So surely that’s being evaluated as well. She’s got my trust ; any DVM who would take my rabbit home, on day off, has my respect and appreciation :) !

[HRT4SQRLS]

You might want to ask if she sees squirrels also. Inquiring minds need to know. :grin2

[Milo's Mom]

I can't say that I've ever heard a vet call it colic but I think you just landed in a gold mine. Keep Dr. E of MS on your speed dial!! :clap

In the meantime, are you preparing your fridge with new diet items for Hunny? Timothy Hay, Timothy based pellets, appropriate greens...? Remember you MUST do the change SLOWLY but I truly believe a different diet will help immensely.

I am emailing you a PDF file that is all about bunns. Remember, you also have the https://rabbit.org/ to reference going forward.

Oxbow Essentials Adult Rabbit food is the lowest protein Timothy based pellet we can get in the states. Ideally the protein should be less than 15....read the labels.

Personally, I use the Oxbow Timothy Hay. Just plain Timothy, no other little bits of anything, just plain old Timothy Hay.

I generally stay away from anything that looks all colorful and has little bits of stuff added. My guy gets his fun colorful stuff in the form of his veg. His staples (pellets and hay) are plain.

Stay away from fruits and high sugar veg (carrots). They may be given as a treat OCCASIONALLY and when offered as a treat it should not be any larger than the size of a quarter.

Cruciferous veg (Arugula, Bok Choy, Broccoli, Brussels Sprouts, Cabbage, Cauliflower, Collard Greens, Kale) should be avoided...they cause gas. I am not saying you can never feed, but they need to be done in a very moderate fashion; perhaps as a treat. (I do not feed any of these ever...too risky in my opinion)

Looking forward to hearing Hunny Bun is home, happy and healthy doing popcorns and binkies!

EDIT: email just sent!

[Snicker Bar]

Jon and youngest are on the way to get him. She is sending the Oxbow critical care; not sure what all else. I’m off for next 4 days so he will be in the house under close watch. I DO have so much reading to do... Thank you for PDF; I probably caused this whole thing :(
I had done some reading on My House Rabbit, but apparently did not study ( or see cautions) anything about clover and dandelions. With it being Spring, I’ve fed these daily. He never would eat the hay, so stared kale as the bulk of his diet. And too many carrots :( And way too much fruit :( And corn on the cob :( I wish there was a Henry’s Healthy Diet for Pet Rabbits chart , but I’ll study these other references. I guess , I’ve overstudied about squirrel care ; had no idea rabbits could be so delicate, and need limits on certain things.
I will definitely ask about squirrel medicine and surgery, Hrt4sq’s! Especially for Odontoma . I have a list of questions for my husband to ask, including emergency care for the others. She is apparently licensed to rehab., since the college wildlife DVM uses her for all her wildlife surgeries . I’m a little nervous , to say too much , as I am only an “unofficial” sub permittee in progress. I don’t want her to think I’m a crazy squirrel hoarder. We only have the three that are NR’s. , and Teenie; but any or all could need emergency care at anytime . Snickers with her seizures, and Doodles with her teeth. And even Fat Dandies- her bad eye ; sometimes I worry it may need removal.
To my surprise, the Dr . asked if she could use Hunny Bun, on her TV SHOW!?! She actually has her own segment, twice a week on two channels .. Oh my gosh . I was honored lol. Filming on June 13 she said. She wants to educate others ( dummies) like me about GI problems in rabbits. How crazy is that; my bunny ( Lord willing I can keep him well) can be a celebrity for a day :)

Thanks for all the references, contacts ( even from Canada!) constructive persuasion lol, and prayers :)

[Milo's Mom]

Okay, you are NOT a dummy! You didn't know and you thought you were doing it correctly. Just happens it wasn't quite right. But you have many new tools (references and people) at your disposal and you made contact with a great vet and your Hunny Bun is going to be on TV!

I've had my bunny for almost 5 years and I still reference stuff (sometimes weekly) to see if he can eat this or that. If he doesn't eat in the normal amount of time (according to me) I'm all over him, flipping him over looking at his butt, digging around in his potty box inspecting the poops, checking his mouth and teeth, sending out 911 text messages. I'm positive he thinks I'm a complete freak! (this is why I know he stops eating when the house reaches 78 degrees, not 77, precisely 78)

We are all here to learn and then it's our job to share to the next person that comes along. You've just gone through (are going through) a very scary situation and you've learned/are learning a lot...just wait till someone comes along...you've been there and done that and you'll be a rock star! :grouphug

[Snicker Bar]

I’m kind of reminded of a R. Reagan quote ; but modified a little , “The trouble with some pet owners/ friends , is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much ( feed too much) that isn’t so.... healthy.” Or something like that lol

On way to grocery to get a few of the good greens on the list. Dropping the kale, the carrots and fruit . Got the Oxbow Timothy hay and timothy pellets. And got to keep the other ( she said 90 ml/day Critical care ) going plus sub q fluids , Meloxicam, and buprenorphine for pain. No antibiotics. Said the urine was clear now.

So glad he’s waiting at home, with a good prognosis:)

[Mel1959]

Great news! :great:great :w00t

[redwuff]

How is that beeeeutiful Hunny Bun doing?:grouphug

[Snicker Bar]

I was scared to post an All is Well update, but I think (??) hopefully we are there now, after 11 days .. but over the weekend I wasn’t so sure. He went to the exotic DVM last Wed., and was discharged the very next day; which made me a little nervous. But he was definitely much improved, and they covered all the bases with tests and x rays. But he continued to grind that Fri. and Sat., and still wouldn’t eat enough to keep a mouse alive. By Sat. evening I started to panic , and I contacted Milo’s Mom’s friend ( a 30 + yrs rabbit rehabber, owner etc. ) and once again she gave me suggestions and information to coach us along. So last night I saw for the first time in over ten days normal “cocoa puff” poos :) , and again this morning. He has his ears up, and is back head bumping me for rubs and running / rearing up on me for food . He’s not thrilled about some of the diet changes we’ve had to make, but he’s alive; and want him to stay that way :)!

Thanks for checking on him; and can’t thank everyone enough for all the help; Canada even !!

[Chickenlegs]

What a great update! Love, care and prayers are mighty powerful :grin3 :Love_Icon