Bloody tears??

[EarlsMom]

Gearl, the 9 mo old squirrel I've been overwintering appears 'off' today. She's lethargic, not jumping around like usual, is staying in her cube even though it's a beautiful day and the sliding glass door is open so she can enjoy the outdoor smells and sounds (loved it yesterday).
This morning she didn't eat her block and refused her formula (yep still enjoys it BID). She also left her AVOCADO which she adores and always the first thing she pulls from her dish.
And the strangest thing I just noticed when I took her out of her cube was that she has a bit of tacky dry blood in the corners of both eyes! If it was just one I'd think she poked herself with a twig, but it's both! I wiped them off and just rechecked a minute ago and both show a minute bit of fresh blood forming (tiny). I've seen references to white tears but not bloody ones.

Her diet is the same as always. I did give her fresh budding lilac twigs yesterday. She's had lilac most of the winter so I can't believe that's bothering her unless it's because is fresh! The only other difference is the avocado I gave her is not the usual ripeness I get (soft). This one is still firm and the rind didn't pull off and I had to cut it off before giving it to her. She ate the yesterday morning piece but left last night's and this morning's. She ate some sweet potato, some radicchio and her second love, sugar snap peas today. I offered her fruit and she has came out for that (banana, a blueberry, tangerine and strawberry piece). Note: She does not get that many pieces of fruit normally but I offered it to see what she'd eat.
And thoughts? What would cause bloody eyes? Could it be the avocado?
Robin

[Jen413]

I wouldn't think it'd be the avocado. I've given it to my boys when it wasn't soft and never had an issue with it. Can you take a picture of what you are seeing?

[cava]

Does she have free roam of the house? What you're describing sounds like she has ingested something that's working as an anti-coagulant, or stopping her ability to clot blood.

Examples include rat poison, insecticides, household cleaners, medications.

The tear ducts are connected to the nose which is connected to the mouth so theoretically an injury could cause bleeding in both places. Open her mouth and shine a light in there to determine the source of bleeding. Is she also bleeding from her nose?

[EarlsMom]

Ugh! I can't get a good enough picture of her eyes. I can see a tiny bit reforming in the corners but it's not enough to show up in a picture. However while I was trying to get that picture I did notice a blood stain nose. :( Plus she's squeaking when I handle her now.

I can't believe I forgot this, but, I recall this morning finding what appeared to be something regurgitated in her cage. Two small piles, each less than a 1/4 tsp. It smelled and looked like mushy Mazuri block (she may have had one stashed).

No she does not have free run of the house! I have her in a large ferret nation cage, but do let her out several times a day to run about totally SUPERVISED in the room I keep her! I can't think of anything she might have found on the floor other than what falls out of her cage. (I had also thoroughly vacuumed yesterday).

Could the lilac have been more toxic than usual as it is just budding. She surely ate all the buds off the twigs.

She's looking sicker. :sniff

[EarlsMom]

I'm headed to the drugstore I read Vit K is helpful with poisoning. I'm going to go find some just in case! Oh dear, I think she's getting worse!

[Nancy in New York]

Keep her hydrated and stimulate her if she allows you to.
It will push the toxins out faster.
Keep pushing fluids.

[EarlsMom]

300991

I've been out trying to find Vit k, and a subQ set up. Gearl is still very sick and you can now see her eyes are bleeding (nose too). She is not cooperating giving her oral hydration via syringe and i don't think I can administer the subQ (which I've only done on a cat). She's not dehydrated yet and while I haven't seen her at her water bottle since midday, she just now eagerly ate a tangerine, so I gave her two more.
I had some coconut water on hand so I poured some onto a plate hoping she'd be interested, but no.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Do you think she fell?

Any possibility of eating rat poison?

Are you sure it's blood?

[HRT4SQRLS]

The lilac twigs were from your yard, right? The plants weren't sprayed. ??
I assume that you didn't purchase them from a store.

[4Puddles]

How is her breathing? Do you think she could have aspirated this morning when she vomited? If you get a damp piece of tissue and gently wipe her eyes or nose, does the discharge stain the paper red?

[EarlsMom]

I've never seen her 'fall'...well, other than missing me or a chair arm. I watch her like a hawk when she's out of the cage and with a squirt bottle in hand too. I don't let her climb the drapes or wooden blinds.

The lilacs were from yard and no we don't spray anything. I also gave her chives from outdoors a couple days ago.

I don't know if she aspirated or not. The vomitus was there this morning (seemed fresh). Her breathing seems fine, even with the bloody nose. She really only started appearing sick in the afternoon, although in hindsight she was a little less active and a pickier eater .

I think we have mouse poison down cellar, but it's contained within a metal trap. My husband's cat goes down there and he is careful because of him. I can't imagine how any would come upstairs let alone get into the room she's in.

I did not wipe her eyes with a tissue, but it stained my fingers red. While I would stake my life on it, I think it's blood. I have not checked her mouth and ears yet. I am causing her much distress fussing with he as it is!!

The only out of the ordinary things this week were she had a log she peeled with lichen on it (done this before), I let her take popcorn out of my bowl. She had like five pieces and I took it away. I had the exterior sliding door open for a couple hours yesterday and again briefly today (screen shut and she was in her cage).

I feel distraught and inadequate dealing with something so obviously serious! I hope she's still alive in the morning. Resorting to praying now!

[4Puddles]

Have you given her chives before? And where were they from? Growing wild or from a garden?

[4Puddles]

Do you have a squirrel friendly vet that you could take her to? I know in dogs, plants in the onion family can cause Heinz body anemia where the body destroys red blood cells. It can actually be fatal. I am not sure how toxic they are for squirrels specifically, but I wonder if this could be what is causing her symptoms? In dogs it can take a couple of days after ingestion for symptoms to appear. Has she urinated at all since the red tearing has started? I wonder if her urine is a normal color...

[SophieSquirrel]

The red staining is Porphyrin (red mucous) from a gland behind the eye that when dry looks like blood. Sounds like a Mycoplasma infection.

Can you get Doxycycline? Several PPL on here can dose for you.

Info on Doxy and use against Mycoplasma: http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/doxycycline.php

Mycoplasmosis in Rats: http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/mycoplasma_mycoplasmosis.php

"squinting, and porphyrin staining (rust colored) around eyes"

[HRT4SQRLS]

The red staining is Porphyrin (red mucous) from a gland behind the eye that when dry looks like blood. Sounds like a Mycoplasma infection.

Can you get Doxycycline? Several PPL on here can dose for you.

Info on Doxy and use against Mycoplasma: http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/doxycycline.php

Mycoplasmosis in Rats: http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/mycoplasma_mycoplasmosis.php

"squinting, and porphyrin staining (rust colored) around eyes"

This is what I was wondering about but wanted to definitively rule out blood.
This is common in rats with Mycoplasma.

[EarlsMom]

Morning everyone! Thank you for offering insight into this!

My Gearl is still alive this morning and presenting the same symptoms, eyes and nose appear blood stained and she is lethargic and down right sick looking. She does not appear to be dehydrated yet. Instead of her block this morning I gave her extra formula, which she drank most of. She also was interested in tangerine wedges and had two. She is very squeaky when handled and does not like me cleaning her eyes. She however is occasionally rubbing at them and licking her paws. Her urine is normal colored and same amount. So far her poops look normal in color and size, but not so many.

I have given Gearl chives from the garden a couple times this In the last three weeks. I have not seen her actually eat them prior, but I think she did nibble some this Saturday. The rest she draped over the cage wire. I'm kinda feeling like this (chives) might be a contributing factor! But would it cause the nose and eye bleeding?

As Gearl is an illegal squirreli can't take her into a vet office. However, I have a sister in law who is a vet and she is very supportive and will prescribe what I need, but she doesn't know squirrels! Last night she called in a prednisolone 5mg prescription and Vit K (cuz I asked). I did not fill the Vit K yet because it is $65 a pill and she would need to take it FOR WEEKS to treat rodenticide poisoning. She also ordered a sub Q drip set-up but NOT ONE of three pharmacies had one! She ordered the prednisolone for autoimmune hemolytic anemia that cats and dogs can get for no particular reason. So my question is what damage could taking that cause? Should I pursue the Vit K avenue because of the clotting issue? And what is the likelihood of it being this mycoplasmosis? My gut feeling is it's not that after reading about it! But hey, I don't know crapola!!

[redwuff]

The red staining is Porphyrin (red mucous) from a gland behind the eye that when dry looks like blood. Sounds like a Mycoplasma infection.

Can you get Doxycycline? Several PPL on here can dose for you.

Info on Doxy and use against Mycoplasma: http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/doxycycline.php

Mycoplasmosis in Rats: http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/mycoplasma_mycoplasmosis.php

"squinting, and porphyrin staining (rust colored) around eyes"


Hi Earlsmom,

Mycoplasma can make squirrels very sick and can be deadly. From everything I have read, this makes the most sense. A round of doxy would certainly be prudent to do to rule out this scary possibility. Good catch SophieSquirrel.

Trysh

[SophieSquirrel]

And what is the likelihood of it being this mycoplasmosis? My gut feeling is it's not that after reading about it!

I'm not thinking clotting so not convinced Vit K is a good idea.

My thought is at this point a course of Doxy certainly will not hurt. Based on what you posted I think there is a zero chance she got a hold of rodenticide as she is not roaming around a house laced with rat poison. Not dealing with rats or rodents other than squirrels I have never personally seen a case of Mycoplasmosis. I called one of the rat club people and every case of "blood" (Porphyrin) in the eyes turned out to be just that so I would not rule it out.

I would weigh her and have your sister-in-law prescribe based on her weight. If she treats rats she will know how to dose. If she is strictly a cat and dog vet get the concentration on the Doxy and give that and her weight to Nancy or Hrt4 for dosing or to check the dosage your S-I-L vet prescribes.

The lack of other symptoms of Mycoplasmosis does not necessarily rule it out. Not many other illnesses cause Porphyrin in the eyes and lethargy.

From the rat people:

"he is lacking the energy to perform basic tasks. I would assume, based on this alone, that he's fighting a very serious infection"

Rat (and squirrel) safe meds: http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm

[redwuff]

Also with any type of rodenticide, she would be bleeding from every oriface and be having very serious seizures or be dead by now. Praying for your sweetie:grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

Earlsmom,
In case nobody's on to help with dosing, here's the page from the Wild Mammal Babies Book.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/Bronx%20Babies%202012/Bronx%20Babies%20%20part%202%20%202012/Wild%20Mammal%20Babies%20Medical%20Section/2032.jpg (http://s673.photobucket.com/user/nancym518/media/Bronx%20Babies%202012/Bronx%20Babies%20%20part%202%20%202012/Wild%20Mammal%20Babies%20Medical%20Section/2032.jpg.html)

[EarlsMom]

Okay, I have the doxy IN HAND after 35 min drive each way! I have a 25mg/5ml oral suspension. The dose age prescribed is .7ml every 12 hrs for 14days. Does that sound correct Nancy? Gearl is 713g, or was yesterday before she went downhill.

[Milo's Mom]

It appears that the vet dosed it at 5mg/kg which is the lower end. Until Nancy gets back and confirms, the dose of 0.7 is okay to start with.

The book we usually go with suggests dosing at 10mg/kg, which would be double that, but my vet doses doxy at 5mg/kg as well.

Sooo, in order to get things started and to get meds on board NOW, go with the 0.7 per your instructions on the bottle...we can add more later if needed.

Not trying to step on toes, but I didn't see anyone in this thread that doses and wanted to provide an answer as soon as possible for this little one.

[Nancy in New York]

Okay, I have the doxy IN HAND after 35 min drive each way! I have a 25mg/5ml oral suspension. The dose age prescribed is .7ml every 12 hrs for 14days. Does that sound correct Nancy? Gearl is 713g, or was yesterday before she went downhill.

Ok you are correct.
The book doses at the strength of 5mg/ml so what you have is the same.
Since this can be given once daily, OR twice daily your dose is correct.
IF you dosed ONCE daily the dose would be 1.426 rounded DOWN to 1.4
Since you are dosing twice daily, the dose is 0.7 mls every 12 hours.
Like the book says, administer with food to reduce the chance of GI upset.
I would also give probiotics 2 hours prior or after dosing.
Keep him well hydrated when on any drugs.

Thank you Milo'sMom for your quick reply.
Not to worry about stepping on toes.
That's the reason I put the chart on the board, so others
can (and should) help.:thumbsup

[EarlsMom]

Sooo, in order to get things started and to get meds on board NOW, go with the 0.7 per your instructions on the bottle...we can add more later if needed.

I thought the same MM, sooner rather than later! I'm ashamed to say only God knows how much actually got in her but I think it could have been slightly more than .7! It took two tries and both of us are sporting raspberry purple! Who knew a squirrel on death's door has so much strength! I'm not looking forward to the next dose, she is 'on to me!'

Thanks for the input MM!

Just to update without doing a separate post- she's eaten another tangerine, refused her formula (she was too busy licking off the purple meds). Went pee and poo, both normal. Hopped back to bed and I passed her in two Cheerios which she ate (turned up her nose at her block). The interesting thing to note is I don't see blood around her nose or in her ears (though she is sleeping on her back). My sister in law wanted me to check her belly skin for mottling and I'm happy to say I see no sign of bruising.

Does anyone have any advise on whether to continue with her prednisolone doses? Could it hurt? Thank you everyone!

[EarlsMom]

Nancy it's weird but I wrote and posted my comment a few minutes after MM chimed in, a good hour before it showed up and we'll after you commented. My post looks like I completely ignored you! I do not want you to think that!! I certainly appreciate all your efforts on here. This isn't the first time you've come to help me!
You are one busy gal, and we are fortunate to have such dedicated people like you and the others coming so promptly to the rescue! :thankyou. :hug

Thank you for the dosing confirmation and for reminding me about the probiotics! Totally would not have remebered to do that!

Robin

[Nancy in New York]

Nancy it's weird but I wrote and posted my comment a few minutes after MM chimed in, a good hour before it showed up and we'll after you commented. My post looks like I completely ignored you! I do not want you to think that!! I certainly appreciate all your efforts on here. This isn't the first time you've come to help me!
You are one busy gal, and we are fortunate to have such dedicated people like you and the others coming so promptly to the rescue! :thankyou. :hug

Thank you for the dosing confirmation and for reminding me about the probiotics! Totally would not have remebered to do that!

Robin

You have a critical baby so never worry about posting back.
I've also lost posts or swore that I posted in someone's thread
and never see it. Not sure why that happens.
The important thing is that Gearl got the help needed and hopefully
is on the road to recovery.
She's one lucky little girl to have found her way to you! :hug

[EarlsMom]

:bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss
WOW, WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Gearl has been snatched back from death's door!

Gearl has perked up! She was waiting for her block first thing this morning! And more importantly she is drinking and drinking! She looks a bit bedraggled (sticky from meds) and I noticed she tires quick, but the comeback is remarkable!

So THANKFUL for each of you that responded :grouphug, and for this forum of wonderful people who selflessly donate their time and energy! I know there are tears and sadness as well, but today, for one little squee, there is much rejoicing!

:jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump

:thankyou :thankyou from Gearl and I! ❤️❤️

[Nancy in New York]

:bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss
WOW, WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Gearl has been snatched back from death's door!

Gearl has perked up! She was waiting for her block first thing this morning! And more importantly she is drinking and drinking! She looks a bit bedraggled (sticky from meds) and I noticed she tires quick, but the comeback is remarkable!

So THANKFUL for each of you that responded :grouphug, and for this forum of wonderful people who selflessly donate their time and energy! I know there are tears and sadness as well, but today, for one little squee, there is much rejoicing!

:jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump

:thankyou :thankyou from Gearl and I! ❤️❤️


:fireworks Gearl :fireworks
These are the kind of updates that we LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Happy tears for little Gearl. :blowkiss

[island rehabber]

Am I ever glad I dropped in to check TSB real quick -- this put a BIG smile on my face!! :serene

[SophieSquirrel]

Glad to hear your baby is doing better:dance Squirrels have fast metabolisms so they tend to respond quicker to treatment and they also go downhill quicker. Like any antibiotic keep her on the Doxy until the course is complete. The rat dosing chart states 14 days - do those with dosing experience agree with that for squirrels? EarlsMom, you stated: "The dose age prescribed is .7ml every 12 hrs for 14days". Was that by your S-I-L Vet or out of the rat dosing link I posted? My Wild Mammal Babies book does not state how many days for Doxy.

:grouphug

[EarlsMom]

"EarlsMom, you stated: "The dose age prescribed is .7ml every 12 hrs for 14 days." Was that by your S-I-L Vet or out of the rat dosing link I posted?

My S-I-L prescribed it that way. She has a Wildlife/Exotics Vet friend that she confers with.
Ugh, not looking forward to two weeks of giving her meds! If anyone feels that 14 days is too long, it'll be music to my ears!

Robin

[SophieSquirrel]

Great! Some vets are cat and dog vets and don't have the reference material on squirrels and such. I am glad she has a resource like the wildlife vet for correct meds and dosing. Keep us posted on her progress.

[Rexie]

so happy to hear that she is feeling better today 💞

[Nancy in New York]

How's Gearl this morning?

[Diggie's Friend]

Very glad to hear this morning that the treatment is working!


Just for reference, here's some additional information on the treatment of Mycoplasma in rats.

http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/mycoplasma_mycoplasmosis.php

[EarlsMom]

How's Gearl this morning?

Three days hence, she is doing well. Back to her old self in fact! But...

Scarily, after my last posting the morning of the 26th, Gearl declined rapidly in the late afternoon, porphyrin was again coming out her eyes and nose and she was lethargic and sick looking, refusing fluids and staying in her cube. Having already given her meds I didn't know what else could be done for her. She looked bad! In a last ditch effort to save her, I decided to give her another dose of prednisolone (thinking that since there'd been question on dosing and the 1mg/kg was the lower dosage, I gave her the 'other half' of the larger dose.) I did not expect to find her alive the next morning! But, there she was! Jumping around and hungry like nothing had ever happened! It's been uphill since then with no relapse, and only on the lower Pred dose since just that one extra. She is currently on a prednisolone weaning schedule per my SIL and her WL vet colleague. She will continue the doxy.

I didn't see your post Nancy until last night (and Diggie's Friend's). Wouldn't you know it...that all this 'drama' would 'go down' when I was expecting a HOUSE FULL of family :tap!! Instead of grocery shopping I was running far and wide chasing down meds for a squirrel!! My kids (and their spouses) were afraid :eek they had traveled three thousand miles to attend a squirrel funeral!

It all ended happily! Everyone got fed, the squee got better, and my kids (kids? mid/late 30s?) finally got to see each other and their crazy mother's 'pet' squirrel :shakehead ! The End.

Thank you for asking. I try not to leave my posts without an ending!