Scuddles is acting strange

[4Puddles]

Scuddles is acting strange and I am getting a little worried. Yesterday he did not eat much and it didn’t look like he he drank much (if anything) for the day. Last night when I was washing down his belly and applying desitin, I noticed that his little body was very hot to the touch. I’m not sure exactly how high of a fever he had because I do not have an animal thermometer, though I suppose I should get one! I started him on clavamox assuming he has some sort of infection, but the skin on his belly is looking great so I cannot imagine that is the cause of the fever. This morning he looked much brighter and ate his boo ball and a piece of avocado. When I was cleaning his belly I noticed the lymph node in his left groin area is now enlarged. Even when his belly looked bad, the right side was by far the worst. He drank a decent amount of water while I was at work for the day but did not eat any of his food while I was gone. Tonight when I went to get him from his cube, I heard him make this weird deep honking noise twice. At first I didn’t realize it was him. Since I have taken him out, he is almost continuously rubbing and cleaning his face and nose but is not having any type of discharge. He also seems overly concerned with grooming in general (his back, front feet, belly...) He is also grinding his teeth more than normal (which he does frequently at me in general) so I worry his tummy is hurting. He ran under his favorite end table and stretched his neck out and put his head low (very much like a cat getting ready to cough up a hair ball) and looked like he was breathing funny. Not choking but breathing in a weird pattern. A couple of seconds later he stretched and yawned and looked fine. He ate one boo ball when I got home but won’t touch his avocado tonight and took a long time to eat his almond. As I am typing he is laying under the end table with a very sleepy look in his eye (which is strange because he is always so on edge around me still.) If I move around, he perks his head up and watches me carefully. I am not sure what could be going on with him and he’s making me nervous. I wonder if his carefresh bedding is irritating his sinuses somehow? The fact that he could have ingested zinc oxide from the desitin also worries me but I doubt it would cause lymph node swelling. Now I am also concerned the clavamox is making his tummy hurt but I hate to stop it because it seems to have gotten rid of his fever so he must be fighting some sort of infection.. I did give him probiotics this morning. I am planning on giving him his evening dose of antibiotics and trying to get extra fluids into him before bed just in case he is a little dehydrated. I also think I am going to stop the desitin for now in case that is causing a problem. Does anyone have any thoughts?

[island rehabber]

I always try to look at the most obvious thing, or the newest thing when a baby isn't well, rather than going for the most exotic problem my imagination can conjure up. Yes, I would stop the Desitin for now and see if he feels better. The antibiotics can mess with his immune system as well, so maybe try some acidophilus between doses?

[SophieSquirrel]

I am concerned you may have something going on there other than urine scald. May not be Pox but could be something bacterial or viral. It's too bad you are not near Florida and Dr E or NY and Dr. H. I can try to find you a vet-specialist near you if you like. Did you do a culture swab on the area before applying the Desitin and do you have access to a lab at work? If not I would have a culture done and possibly some blood work rather than guessing with meds. I personally don't use care fresh b/c I am concerned about ingestion and blockage, but I don't think that's the problem with him. Body temp is on average 101.7 and you could use a small cone Infrared thermometer in the ear but I would be more concerned with a diagnosis by a vet-specialist than using deviation from average temperature to figure out whats going on. Hydration is most important at this time even if you have to do it manually with a 1 mL syringe. If he starts dehydrating badly (tent test) you may need lactated Ringers Subq. I always have a bag on hand and some 27 GA needles. Perhaps Nancy or Hrt4Sqrls could chime in about your Clavamox dosing amount and alternatives? I don't like commenting on dosing to anyone. How are the stools/urine?

Nanoparticles of Titanium Dioxide which is present in Zinc Oxide can cause neurological issues. Remember any med/substance made for humans if ingested constitutes a much higher concentration in squirrels with their much smaller comparative body weight. Desitin should not be ingested.

Here is the information on Zinc Oxide ingestion: https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/zinc-poisoning-toxicity-in-pets

[4Puddles]

I am concerned you may have something going on there other than urine scald. May not be Pox but could be something bacterial or viral. It's too bad you are not near Florida and Dr E or NY and Dr. H. I can try to find you a vet-specialist near you if you like. Did you do a culture swab on the area before applying the Desitin and do you have access to a lab at work? If not I would have a culture done and possibly some blood work rather than guessing with meds. I personally don't use care fresh b/c I am concerned about ingestion and blockage, but I don't think that's the problem with him. Body temp is on average 101.7 and you could use a small cone Infrared thermometer in the ear but I would be more concerned with a diagnosis by a vet-specialist that using deviation from average temperature to figure out whats going on. Hydration is most important at this time even if you have to do it manually with a 1 mL syringe. If he starts dehydrating badly (tent test) you may need lactated Ringers Subq. I always have a bag on hand and some 27 GA needles. Perhaps Nancy or Hrt4Sqrls could chime in about your Clavamox dosing amount and alternatives? I don't like commenting on dosing to anyone. How are the stools/urine?

Nanoparticles of Titanium Dioxide which is present in Zinc Oxide can cause neurological issues. Remember any med/substance made for humans if ingested constitutes a much higher concentration in squirrels with their much smaller comparative body weight. Desitin should not be ingested.

I am I concerned something else is going on too. Unfortunately, I highly doubt any specialists in my area would agree to see him. I did not do a culture on his belly and at this point think it would be pretty useless. Everything is dried up and scabbed over and he has been on antibiotics for 24 hours. Last night his temperature was definitely over 101.7. After working in veterinary medicine you get used to the feel of a high temperature. Dogs can have a normal temperature of up to 102.5 and he felt like he was quite a bit hotter. I wasn’t even thinking about him having a fever and it struck me how much heat was radiating from him.
Nancy and I already discussed dosing for the clavamox and I have actually been dosing him low. I was guessing on his weight because I knew weighing him would stress him, but this evening I decided it needed to be done and I found out I had guessed low. I have many alternatives to clavamox that I could try, but it is such a nice broad spectrum antibiotic and I have no idea what exactly I am treating him for. :thinking I do think it is helping him since the fever is gone and he is eating and drinking more today.
After my first post, I found a small amount of soft stool under the end table. Then I found a small pile of more formed but still soft pellets. I wouldn’t be surprised if the antibiotics are messing with his stool, but I have been giving him probiotics since I started the antibiotics to help. Up until this soft stool, everything has been normal. His urine output is actually really hard to determine. Sometimes when I am cleaning his belly he will pee on me, but otherwise the carefresh bedding absorbs it.
After his soft poops he ate a few bites of avocado and apple and seems to have more energy. Right now I am just trying to give him whatever he might want to make sure he eats. I got about 1ml of water in him and it does look like he drank a good amount from his bowl today. I have plenty of LRS and butterfly catheters just in case.
I am most worried about any ingestion of the desitin. That was my big worry from the beginning when everyone suggested it because he’s a big groomer. I am sure he is not “eating” large amounts, but I realize any licking of his belly could cause him to ingest small amounts. I will not be using it anymore until his weird symptoms go away...and even then I might hesitate.

[Mel1959]

I hope you can figure out what is going on with him. I agree, stop the desitin and see how he does. Extra water will help flush his system if it is a result of ingesting the zinc oxide.

[SophieSquirrel]

I am sure he is not “eating” large amounts, but I realize any licking of his belly could cause him to ingest small amounts. I will not be using it anymore until his weird symptoms go away...and even then I might hesitate.

Sounds like things are a little more stable. Small amounts to us are large amounts to him.

If you need a vet let me know and I will try to find one near you. The Smithsonian Zoo's Vet (Dr. N) knows squirrels and they had Prevost's in the Small Mammal House - he used to work at WDW in Florida. I am not sure if he is still there but he may consult with your vet if the former vet (Dr M) who was there when they set up the PD exhibit puts in a kind word.

Keep us informed of his progress....

SS

[4Puddles]

D.C. is certainly not too far from me if Scuddles needs it! Thank you for the offer :grouphug I will update in the morning.

[Nancy in New York]

How much does Scuddles weigh and what dose are you giving him?
Which probiotics are you using?

[4Puddles]

He weighs 534g and I have been giving him 0.12ml twice a day. The probiotic is the bene-bac powder for small animals.

[Nancy in New York]

He weighs 534g and I have been giving him 0.12ml twice a day. The probiotic is the bene-bac powder for small animals.

WOW he's heavier than I thought.
For this weight the dose should be 0.17 twice daily.
I know you said you were giving a lower dose, but
I'm not sure what that will accomplish.
Edit: OK I think I understand, because you didn't
have the correct weight on him, now I get it. :)

I use the probiotic capsules that you can get from CVS, you
pull them apart and give the size of the top of a pencil eraser. 2
hours prior or 2 hours after.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JC2tFpw/0/5652151c/O/i-JC2tFpw.jpg

[TubeDriver]

I have used Clavamox and not seen any noticablt GI effects although it is certainly possible. I also used probiotics given a couple hours after dosing AB. I have had good luck using CVS branded probiotic powder capsuls (open a capsule into a ziplock and just add a tiny pinch daily).

I would continue the Clavamox and finish the trial, especially since he seems to be doing a bit better. Perhaps he did ingest some desitin?

I think your plan is good, continue Clavamox, hydrate, stop desitin!


PS when I have had angry wild squirrels, sometimes I have tried to just spend some quiet time nearby where they can see me, just reading a book for example. It may not have made them friendly, but they seemed to realize pretty quickly that I am not a terrible danger to them. I think they just got bored of watching me read.:grin2


edit: I saw that while I was typing up my post, Nancy posted the Probiotic that I also use! That is the one!

[4Puddles]

I was not intentionally dosing him low, I was guessing he weighed quite a bit less. Now that he is having pretty soft stool (there are a few places in his cage from overnight), I’m hesitant to increase the dose quite yet. Even with the low dose, his fever went away and lymph node is feeling much smaller, so I do think it’s helping. Should I switch the probiotic? I thought I had read somewhere that the small animal bene-bac powder was the best for them...but I cannot remember where at the moment.
I have not had a chance to take him out yet, but he took his boo ball sprinkled with probiotic powder this morning.

[Nancy in New York]

I was not intentionally dosing him low, I was guessing he weighed quite a bit less. Now that he is having pretty soft stool (there are a few places in his cage from overnight), I’m hesitant to increase the dose quite yet. Even with the low dose, his fever went away and lymph node is feeling much smaller, so I do think it’s helping. Should I switch the probiotic? I thought I had read somewhere that the small animal bene-bac powder was the best for them...but I cannot remember where at the moment.
I have not had a chance to take him out yet, but he took his boo ball sprinkled with probiotic powder this morning.

Yeah, I edited my post above to indicate that you were "guesstimating" his weight, therefore the lower dose.
Well I started using the probiotics as shown above when Leigh, from Henry's suggested that many rehabbers were having
better results with over the counter probiotics.

[4Puddles]

I will pick some up today then! Thank you :grouphug

[TubeDriver]

I would go up to the recommended therapeutic dose. At lower levels, you might get still get GI side effects and fall below the therapeutic effect range. You could try switching the probiotics to see if that helps but the bene-bac should help too.

If he has an infection, a week or so of soft stools can be managed and is a worthy tradeoff for stopping the infection.

You could also try adding some powered rice to his boo balls and bananna slices to his diet which might help firm things up.



I was not intentionally dosing him low, I was guessing he weighed quite a bit less. Now that he is having pretty soft stool (there are a few places in his cage from overnight), I’m hesitant to increase the dose quite yet. Even with the low dose, his fever went away and lymph node is feeling much smaller, so I do think it’s helping. Should I switch the probiotic? I thought I had read somewhere that the small animal bene-bac powder was the best for them...but I cannot remember where at the moment.
I have not had a chance to take him out yet, but he took his boo ball sprinkled with probiotic powder this morning.

[CritterMom]

The clav can cause some yucky tummy issues. Also, make sure you give him the meds after he has had something else to eat - just like us.

[dextersmom]

Have your tried making him a milkshake and feeding it to him threw a syringe. He always ate well that way,and I new he was getting all his nutrients. I would try feeding him the solution..Glad to hear his belly is clearing up. The carefresh is the best! He had no reaction and I had him for a bit over 2 months. I would get rid of most of the fleece.just leaving him a little one to tuck under. I would NOT give any antibiotics.I would give him heavy nutrients. Make a milkshake,he will drink it up and he will probably have alot more energy,and you wll find him being back to himself. Hes lacking them. I used to make him the milkshake with the esbilac milk,brocoli,spinach,mushrooms,a bit of avocado and an apple for sweetness. You can add any other great nutrients,those are some of what I added.. Blend that all up and syringe feed him. If you have the medicine dropers that I had given you they are the best.. Im sure all your symptoms your describing will go away. He never ate all his nutrients in his cage. Thats how I created the milkshake.. Im sure hes not eating it with you as well..The shake is salient for his health.. Does he get sunlight? I gave him the UV light daily. I would try this for they need the sun. Even for 15 minutes a day in an opened aquariam while your wathcing him outside would be ideal,but the UV light is there for you if the sun is not an option now.

[4Puddles]

I would go up to the recommended therapeutic dose

You could also try adding some powered rice to his boo balls and bananna slices to his diet which might help firm things up.

There is actually a pretty big range for the therapeutic dose of clavamox. He is still getting about middle of the dosage range, so I think it should be sufficient. The higher the dose, the higher the risk of side effects. If his fever comes back or anything gets worse, I can always increase the dose or switch to a different antibiotic altogether.

I will make him some boo balls with powdered rice this weekend. Thank you! He does not care for bananas...I have tried before. He’s quite the picky little man.

[4Puddles]

The clav can cause some yucky tummy issues. Also, make sure you give him the meds after he has had something else to eat - just like us.

Thanks! I have been making sure he has some food in his tummy before each dose

[SophieSquirrel]

I would get rid of most of the fleece.just leaving him a little one to tuck under. I would NOT give any antibiotics.I would give him heavy nutrients. Make a milkshake,he will drink it up and he will probably have alot more energy,and you wll find him being back to himself. Hes lacking them. I used to make him the milkshake with the esbilac milk,brocoli,spinach,mushrooms,a bit of avocado and an apple for sweetness. You can add any other great nutrients,those are some of what I added.. Blend that all up and syringe feed him.

4P I would follow this advice to the letter. If the "milkshake" is a proven favorite with him he will get the nutrients and energy he needs.

[dextersmom]

I forgot the most important ingredient in the milkshake add a few Henrys High Protein blocks, He wont be a picky eater. He loves it!

[4Puddles]

4P I would follow this advice to the letter. If the "milkshake" is a proven favorite with him he will get the nutrients and energy he needs.

I have made it for him before and he stopped wanting it. And holding him and feeding with a dropper stresses him very much. He is normally a great eater when he is feeling normal. He isn’t much for fruits and prefers his rodent block, which is ok in my book! “NOT” giving antibiotics and relying on nutrients from his shake to make him better and reduce lymph node swelling and a fever is foolish. I am also fairly certain the carefresh aggravates his sinuses at least to some extent. He was almost constantly doing the funny little sneeze pft thing from the night I brought him home (when that was his only bedding) and it calmed way down when I took away the carefresh. The more carefresh I incorporate back into his cage the more he seems to rub his face and the more red his third eyelids get.
An update on the boy. He ate quite well this morning and happily took his boo ball this evening. He is back to trying to smack me for peeking at him in his cube and I do not see any obvious soft stool around his cage. When I take him out in a little while for his belly rinse I will get a better look in his cube and see if his stool looks back to normal.

[4Puddles]

I forgot the most important ingredient in the milkshake add a few Henrys High Protein blocks, He wont be a picky eater. He loves it!

We have talked over and over about the shake you made him and I have recipe cards that you made. I have not forgotten what you put in it. He stopped wanting it at all. I tried switching things up and each time he pushed it away and buried his little nose then freaked out and tried to get far away. If he stops eating I am not opposed to trying it again, but he is normally a very good eater and pooper. He has been eating less just since his fever spiked the other day, but he is still eating.

[dextersmom]

Lol,I know I made you crazy with his milkshake recipe. I just know all the nutrients are in there and he must have them. Maybe add more sweet fruits in it. I keep emphasizing it because its so importan,but you are now his mother,and know whats best. If hes eating well with you than thats fabulous. He wasnt with me.. As far as taking away his carefresh I belive it to be a Huge mistake,it will aggrivate his urine burn,and begin all over again. These paralyzed little guys all are in the care fresh litter for the reason & picture you had first posted. Talk to Pat, as you know she too has a paralyzed little guy along with you tube videos that she had put out. She has helped me with Pete immensely! Remember he too had that bad rash. She told me to get rid of the shmatas and use the carefresh which totally makes sense. Anyhoot keep us posted,and Good Luck!

[SophieSquirrel]

“NOT” giving antibiotics and relying on nutrients from his shake to make him better and reduce lymph node swelling and a fever is foolish. I am also fairly certain the carefresh aggravates his sinuses at least to some extent. He was almost constantly doing the funny little sneeze pft thing from the night I brought him home (when that was his only bedding) and it calmed way down when I took away the carefresh. The more carefresh I incorporate back into his cage the more he seems to rub his face and the more red his third eyelids get.

If you believe Carefresh is an issue use cotton (small nap) bath towels instead of fleece. I use them exclusively for my paralyzed "Lady", I just change them 2-3 times per day and launder them in a commercial machine so her home is always clean and fresh.

I am not advising to give or not to give antibiotics, and as you know if it's viral they are useless. Sqrl holders are advised on antibiotics by TSB members in places where vet care is not available. You work for a vet and are in a unique position for lab and meds. It's always advisable to get a vet diagnosis before recommending an antibiotic to determine the correct AB and dosage. Even if your employer can't look at "Scuddles", diagnose and treat I am sure you could get a culture done from swabbing the pustule area. I would not automatically assume that's all from urine scald. I am sure there is some irritation from urine. First thing a vet usually does before prescribing is cultures, fecal and blood work unless it's something obvious like respiratory. Just my thoughts.

[4Puddles]

All of his poops in his cube from the day look normal and he is scuddling around from one hiding place to the next this evening looking quite happy! :dance

[Chickenlegs]

Oh my heavens what great news! Hopefully you’ve foundthe key tokeeping Scuddles burn free and healthy. :Love_Icon

[dextersmom]

Great Job! what ever you did worked!! now about that shake :)

[4Puddles]

now about that shake :)

:laugh2

[Mel1959]

How does Scuddles’ belly look?

[4Puddles]

How does Scuddles’ belly look?

It is looking so much better! 300113

[Chickenlegs]

Have you ever tried Dermagel? Boy could eat a bowl of it and not have any ill effects. His parts look SO much better. Not sure I mentioned Carefresh. I’ve never used it for Scooter—mostly because it would be all over the floor. I do use flannel peepee pads. They are absorbant and easily washed. I’ve also used flowersack towels—the thin bar towels you get at Walmart (I hate Walmart but they have good towels.) They are super absorbant, light weight, nice for warm weather and you can bleach the snot out of em. Only drawback is his claws can get stuck if they aren’t trimmed.

[Jen413]

No experience with a paralyzed baby, but I use these microfiber noodle bath mats I got from Walmart and they are great! They absorb well and I’ve washed them a million times. Nothing to get their nails caught on either. Just wanted to mention it in case it is something you could use.

[4Puddles]

No experience with a paralyzed baby, but I use these microfiber noodle bath mats I got from Walmart and they are great! They absorb well and I’ve washed them a million times. Nothing to get their nails caught on either. Just wanted to mention it in case it is something you could use.

I actually went on the hunt for those last weekend but couldn’t find them anywhere! Maybe I will try again this weekend. Thank you :glomp

[4Puddles]

Have you ever tried Dermagel? Boy could eat a bowl of it and not have any ill effects.

I have not used Dermagel on him yet. Right now I am actually not putting anything on it. I am just cleaning it a couple of times a day with diluted betadine and watching the area like a hawk to make sure everything continues to heal.

[SophieSquirrel]

Wow, what an improvement - great job 4P!

[Jen413]

I got mine at Walmart but they no longer sell them. I did recently see some at dollar general that were very similar. If you have dollar generals near you maybe try there. I think the ones I have are made by mainstay. Maybe try doing a search for mainstay microfiber noodle bath mat.