Minimizing risk Odontoma

[Snicker Bar]

In light of the threads about little Dude and others, I want to do everything possible to prevent , or at least delay the possibility of this horrible condition described here. My neuro/ broken jaw/ malocclusion girl Doodles leads a very happy, busy and fulfilling life in spite of her balance issues. These won’t be the death of her; she’s never even had a seizure; and she was far worse the train wreck than Snickers, who must take Keppra and almonds daily or she will seize.
But her teeth... literally every 7-10 days, those lower incisors are overgrown. She eats soft blocks very well until this mark, then the grunting and head tossing start, meaning the tips are hurting her ( pressing into hard palate). Is there a consensus as to which intstrument is the least likely to cause tooth trauma? We’ve tried both the nippers ( jewelry cutters per a recommendation here), and the diamond blade for dremmel. The nippers usually do ok, but occasionally a tooth will split or need a jagged edge re - nipped. But, I’m far more comfortable ( and it’s less stressful for her) about no risk to bodily harm to her ( and me!) from the dremmel. But the dremmel does do a smooth, clean cut . But no matter how tight the burrito wrap and hold, it stresses the crap out of me- husband fussing hold still! And the fear of a little leg escaping and getting cut, or my finger etc.
But whichever is best- what is the least traumatic to the teeth , and best to prevent this thing growing in her mouth in the future ??

Side note- My son had some x rays during braces last year. The orthodontist said, oh , by the way, he has this “harmless” growth on his Lowe jaw bone... we call it an Odontoma . It’s not likely to cause any problems, just have it rechecked every couple years...

[CritterMom]

I would never use a dremel with a squirrel that wasn't anesthetized. The speed at which they go causes unbearable heat really quickly and I think could hurt the animal terribly. Ask any woman who has ever had acrylic nails done what that feels like... I think that frequent trimmings - so you aren't having to cut a lot of tooth - done with SHARP nippers is the way to go. After the piece comes off, use an emery board (one of the black ones) to smooth the edges so no snags.

[Shewhosweptforest]

This is definitely a problem that concerns many of us....and I do believe trimming ourselves....which I've done on two squirrels...one with great success and the other not so much... I feel we can exacerbate the problem :dono we used the German made jeweler trimmers and we still would get splintered teeth...not every time...but enough to cause her teeth to go further off the norm. We now have her's dremmeled at the vet every 2 weeks and they are coming back to their proper position :great anyway, what I wanted to share is that at the Gathering we discussed this problem and Milo's Mom said she has had great success with dog nail trimmers...she said they cut much easier and cleaner cuts...you may want to pm her for the details:great I agree dremmeling yourself is too dangerous, as crittermom explained. You have been lucky...one little jerk or slip and you could cut her tongue, cheek, gums :shakehead it could be a real disaster:(

Thank you for working so hard to help your lil baby....and doing all you can to give Doodles the best life possible :hug she was very lucky to end up with you :please

:eek oh and that was freaky about your son...actually, scary...but I'm hoping for humans it isn't dangerous :please

[Snicker Bar]

Thank you God I asked; I have access to any kind of dog nail cutters we need; I’ll PM her ASAP . Doodles was giving her signal this am, and I told my husband I just dread that dremmel , for both our sakes . And I’m terrified to sedate any recovered head trauma pet- worry they might not wake up :(

Many, many thanks ; and definitely keeping appts. to monitor my human child’s jawbone!!

[cava]

This is definitely a problem that concerns many of us....and I do believe trimming ourselves....which I've done on two squirrels...one with great success and the other not so much... I feel we can exacerbate the problem :dono we used the German made jeweler trimmers and we still would get splintered teeth...not every time...but enough to cause her teeth to go further off the norm. We now have her's dremmeled at the vet every 2 weeks and they are coming back to their proper position :great anyway, what I wanted to share is that at the Gathering we discussed this problem and Milo's Mom said she has had great success with dog nail trimmers...she said they cut much easier and cleaner cuts...you may want to pm her for the details:great I agree dremmeling yourself is too dangerous, as crittermom explained. You have been lucky...one little jerk or slip and you could cut her tongue, cheek, gums :shakehead it could be a real disaster:(

Thank you for working so hard to help your lil baby....and doing all you can to give Doodles the best life possible :hug she was very lucky to end up with you :please

:eek oh and that was freaky about your son...actually, scary...but I'm hoping for humans it isn't dangerous :please

This is what we used for rabbit teeth at the vet.

[kcassidy]

I just wrote a long post and it got eaten for some reason :(

I have a few suggestions for you, my few cents anyway :)

1. I bought clippers recommended by a Squirrel Dad on the FB Non-Releasable Squirrel Keepers Support Page. I haven't had the need to use them yet, but I'll share :)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0711KGBBD/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

2. Can you get your hands on Isoflurine? I did get some recently and I can't believe I've been rehabbing this long and just got it for the first time a few months ago. I use it to anesthetize or PTS small animals. Another rehabber mentioned we could use it to trim toofuses :D and I think it would be great. Can you get some? If yes, I can help you learn how to use it.

3. Finally, have you considered having the teeth removed permanently? If you have to trim every 7-10 days maybe this would be the best solution? Dr. Emerson in Florida has performed this surgery many times and is willing to talk with a colleague no matter their location. I arranged for my vet to have 2 different conference calls with Dr. E. She explained to my vet how to do the surgery and the procedure went really well :)


Feel free to contact me with any questions :) . Also the Non-Releasable Squirrel Keepers support page is an awesome resource.....come join us.

Good luck

[Snicker Bar]

We do have Iso., and tiny masks for most littles... just never tried it on a squirrel; and I guess a little nervous to attempt it for the first time without an experienced helper . But I’ll gladly study more, and take any advice offered. But the nail cutters sound far less stressful. Are they the kind some use for declaws? Or the basic kind groomers use ? I HATE masking down anything ... rarely do this unless it’s an only option ( ie chainsaw cat from hell !) There’s that moment of almost panic (?) I sense they experience, just before drifting asleep. I suppose they don’t remember this, but it bothers me , nonetheless:( So will probably stick to cutters and file; but definitely may seek a consult about extractions if it would be best for prevention of this condition. Thanks for reference to the group mentioned, will check it out !

[kcassidy]

We do have Iso., and tiny masks for most littles... just never tried it on a squirrel; and I guess a little nervous to attempt it for the first time without an experienced helper . But I’ll gladly study more, and take any advice offered. But the nail cutters sound far less stressful. Are they the kind some use for declaws? Or the basic kind groomers use ? I HATE masking down anything ... rarely do this unless it’s an only option ( ie chainsaw cat from hell !) There’s that moment of almost panic (?) I sense they experience, just before drifting asleep. I suppose they don’t remember this, but it bothers me , nonetheless:( So will probably stick to cutters and file; but definitely may seek a consult about extractions if it would be best for prevention of this condition. Thanks for reference to the group mentioned, will check it out !

I was scared to do the Iso the first time too, but MilosMom walked me thru it. it was so fast and made a HUGE difference. I used a 60cc Syringe, filled 1/4 way with gauze. I put about a CC of Iso in there and then held it over the squirrels nose. They definitely fight it and you have to keep it on firmly, but they quickly go limp and you get cracking :)

The nippers I linked in my post are jewelry cutters.

Dr. Emerson is amazing and lots of folks here have used her.

Good luck.

[Jen413]

Let me know which dog nail cutters MM recommends. I too have to trim Sammy's teeth about every week/week and a half. I have jewelry cutters now but it's about time to buy some new ones. Curious about which ones she uses and how she does it but don't want to blow up her inbox if someone can just post the info here. :grin2

[Snicker Bar]

Will do, I just sent her a PM. We made it through a trim yesterday without any splits, but I do need to find the black nail file Crittermom referenced, and practice filing. Maybe if she would tolerate this ( an almond per session) every couple days, the need to trim could be eliminated? It’s worth a try. Will start that experiment today as soon as we purchase a good file. But I’ll post the kind of dog nail cutters , and her method, as soon as I hear back.
I also plan to e mail Dr. Emerson as well, and ask if careful, neat trimming is a safe plan vs surgery. I would hate to put her through that unless it was absolutely necessary. I still wish, however, we could organize a “vacation” and passport for this DVM to visit Costa Rica.... specifically to Cruiser Dude’s home! That situation breaks my heart :(

[Milo's Mom]

I was just alerted to this thread.

I do not recommend using ISO for regular trimmings if proper trimmings can be done with out it. I am extremely careful with the use of ISO and use it when there is no other option.

As for trimmers. Over the years with Ellie I tried a multitude of trimmers and the only ones I found that did not shatter and splinter adult teeth are the half moon dog nail trimmers. The favorites from Chris's splintered her teeth. The jewelry nips recommended by Jackie worked when Ellie was young (maybe the first month I had her and I got her when she was 18 weeks old) after that they shattered the teeth. Ellie was 2+ pounds of orange fury and I NEVER used ISO on her and I trimmed her teeth every other Monday/Tuesday for nearly 7 years.

Since both of those trimmers had the same closing mechanism I decided to try the half moon trimmers. I felt they worked much much better on adult squirrel teeth.

I do use the favorites from Chris on babies, but once the teeth get thick and/or orange I change to the half moons.

I don't buy the most expensive half moons but they certainly aren't the cheapest. I'd say lower high end.

Also for clarification.....The ONLY time I have EVER used ISO to trim teeth was on a brand new intake adult male that was out of this world spazing out. He was HBC and his teeth were an absolute mess. He also had a broken arm and leg so I had to get them set and wrapped. I decided on using ISO and getting it all done at one shot. The moment the vet opened the next day I was there waiting and the vet did x-rays to make sure the sets were good and to check on the teeth up in the head. This was an extenuating circumstance and I felt it was the best solution at that time for that particular squirrel.

PS. I turned my PM feature off a long time ago. I cannot receive or send PM's and at this time I do not wish to turn the feature back on. Email is better.

[Jen413]

So MM....something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Dog-Nail-Clippers-Trimmer-Boshel/dp/B00UJ2WLB0/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1520872382&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=dog+nail+trimmers&psc=1

or these?

https://www.amazon.com/Resco-Deluxe-Clippers-Original-Trimmer/dp/B0010O7882/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1520872382&sr=8-15&keywords=dog+nail+trimmers

I can't imagine how you'd use these second ones and be able to cut just one tooth. I need to buy a new pair and I have the same issue you had. It doesn't shatter Sammy's tooth but seems to not be as neat as I'd like. I have the Chris's squirrels type trimmers. Thanks for the input on this!!

My understanding is Dr. E won't remove teeth to prevent odontomas. I know just because the squirrel has them she won't automatically remove them. She will remove them once the squirrel is experiencing problems with them.

[Mel1959]

Be careful with the dog nail clippers. I watched a seasoned rehabber do it once and the little guys gum bled after the trimming. I mentioned it to Dr. E and she didn’t recommend using them. I know not everyone has the ability, time or money to take their squirrel to a vet for a teeth trimming. Especially given how often they need to be trimmed. So we all do what we can given our situation. Just remember there is quite a bit of torque on the toenail clippers and you have to make the cut quickly so it doesn’t splinter or twist the tooth.

[Milo's Mom]

The first ones. Never never never the guillotine kind...they twist and turn like a spaghetti noodle! I didn't even use them on my dogs.

Here are pics of Ellie's tools. (first time I've touched them since the day before she died)

299343

299344

The white thing is a tongue depressor that I wrapped in duct tape so I could keep it cleaner and to help prevent her from biting the depressor in half and getting splinters in her mouth.

The trimmers say JW Pet Company Inc. I bought them at a vet office in Durham, NC. But I'm sure they can be found on Amazon too.

I also removed the safety guard...it just got in my way.

Years ago, I spoke with DR. E at length about Ellie's teeth and how I clipped them. She said if I didn't have a vet to dremel them and I was getting a clean cut to keep going. Dremel was the recommended method but I had to use the tools at my disposal. That's what I did. I looked into buying a dremel and using a drop of cool water like Dr. E suggests but Ellie was too big and strong for me to feel comfortable.

[Mel1959]

Thank you for posting pics, MM. :grin2 The ones I saw the rehabber use were the guillotine type. I cringed when I saw her do it and felt terrible for the little guy she did it to. I have never seen that type of toenail trimmer. That makes much more sense.

[Jen413]

THANK YOU!!! I'm going to buy some now. I didn't figure it was the second type. IDK how you'd use those without doing both teeth at the same time. It all just made me cringe thinking about it but what do I know! lol. Just wanted to make sure I was getting the right thing. I've never really liked the kind I have so I will try these.

P.S. Special thank you for the picture. I can appreciate how difficult it probably was to pull them out. :Love_Icon

[Milo's Mom]

THANK YOU!!! I'm going to buy some now. I didn't figure it was the second type. IDK how you'd use those without doing both teeth at the same time. It all just made me cringe thinking about it but what do I know! lol. Just wanted to make sure I was getting the right thing. I've never really liked the kind I have so I will try these.

P.S. Special thank you for the picture. I can appreciate how difficult it probably was to pull them out. :Love_Icon

You're welcome. I didn't even think about it, I walked upstairs, into her room, over to her dresser, opened the drawer, pulled them out, just like I'd done for years...then I turned and stopped. It hit me. I just stood there with them in my hand, in the middle of her room. It's those "hit me" moments that are tough, sometimes they fly out of nowhere and smack me upside the head. I put them back in her dresser drawer after I took the pics.

Also, when cutting, you need to go in from the side as opposed to the front of the mouth. I think all of the videos we have here on TSB about clipping demonstrate from the side. Emerson and other vets have all been sure to advise from the side and not the front, so I'm just passing that along as well.

[Snicker Bar]

Thank you Milo’s Mom; I am so, so , sorry this caused you a sad moment ; wasn’t aware of your loss. Please know, thanks to your sweet baby and your experience, the two of you have offered help to so many , I’m sure. I have a pair of cutters exactly like your picture. And the duct tape, genius idea ! Truly didn’t mean for you to experience that pain again. But grateful to the both of you , for sharing. Marie, and a VERY relieved Doodles ( no dremmel, ISO or surgery on the books!) .

[kcassidy]

I was just alerted to this thread.

I do not recommend using ISO for regular trimmings if proper trimmings can be done with out it. I am extremely careful with the use of ISO and use it when there is no other option.



I only recommended this solution because she said she is trimming every 7-10 days and the squirrel is stressed out.

[Milo's Mom]

Thank you Milo’s Mom; I am so, so , sorry this caused you a sad moment ; wasn’t aware of your loss. Please know, thanks to your sweet baby and your experience, the two of you have offered help to so many , I’m sure. I have a pair of cutters exactly like your picture. And the duct tape, genius idea ! Truly didn’t mean for you to experience that pain again. But grateful to the both of you , for sharing. Marie, and a VERY relieved Doodles ( no dremmel, ISO or surgery on the books!) .

No worries. I'm glad our experience and time together is able to help others. It was just one of those things...I was ok and then BAM it hit me again. Sometimes that happens just cause it's Tuesday or Friday, or the sky is blue.

I do hope the different trimmers make a difference for you. Just make sure you replace them often...they have to stay sharp to work correctly.

I also need to modify a statement I made earlier. I've used ISO to trim teeth twice, not once. The first time was as I indicated and the second was on my little love bug NR Snags. The day I pulled her from the release cage with one monster tooth sticking out of her mouth. I ISO'd her for a darn good clipping and to investigate things in her mouth to try to determine what happened to her other bottom tooth. I had no idea she was a love bug...I pulled her from the release cage, she was supposed to be kinda wild. I didn't raise her and she didn't know me. She was down at the Center and was raised by a bunch of volunteers.

[Snicker Bar]

I will definitely remember your contact info. K Cassidy ; glad to know you and others know how to use the Isoflurane. We may very well get in a situation like MM mentioned where it may be needed; if so I will gladly take a lesson from you! Around here, there is very little knowledge ( even at our State University CVM) available for anything regarding a squirrel ; even a dose of Keppra, let alone anesthesia!