SEIS IN CR - Possible Urinary Issue - March 2018

[RamaMama]

Seis was started on Metacam on Feb 25th. due to serious breathing difficulties due to what we believe is "Odontoma" in her upper sinus.

Late afternoon yesterday I went into a playroom to take Seis back to her cage. She had peed on the floor in the play room but at the
time I was rushing with other cleaning so did not stop to clean it up but did put a paper towel over the large puddle.
An hour or two later when I was going to clean, I picked up the 'dry paper' and under it, where her pee had been, was a fine white powder.
Also some of her 'pee drips' had dried and were also a white powder.

I saw this morning that she did a great pee.... but did not check if it would also have the white powder (I was so busy I got sidetracked and forgot) until this afternoon.

Seis always does a big pee in the afternoon's. So far today she keeps trying but nothing is happening. Her tummy feels bloated to the touch but not hard.
We aren't certain exactly what is happening...... or even for certain that she IS having a serious urinary problem.... just putting together several facts. We do know that she does not feel right, she keeps laying down on her belly, and she keeps standing in 'her place' where she likes to pee but can't. It has been an hour (she is not crying out) but seems confused.

I looked up Metacam and one of the side affects is: greatly decreased frequency of urination or amount of urine ---
but nothing states anything about creating other urinary issues.

Have offered many of her fav foods and several various liquids {ie cranberry juice} but she will take nothing.

We realize this could be crystals, but what to do........ and why so many suddenly? Her diet has not changed and is the same as the other four.

[Nancy in New York]

Seis was started on Metacam on Feb 25th. due to serious breathing difficulties due to what we believe is "Odontoma" in her upper sinus.

Late afternoon yesterday I went into a playroom to take Seis back to her cage. She had peed on the floor in the play room but at the
time I was rushing with other cleaning so did not stop to clean it up but did put a paper towel over the large puddle.
An hour or two later when I was going to clean, I picked up the 'dry paper' and under it, where her pee had been, was a fine white powder.
Also some of her 'pee drips' had dried and were also a white powder.

I saw this morning that she did a great pee.... but did not check if it would also have the white powder (I was so busy I got sidetracked and forgot) until this afternoon.

Seis always does a big pee in the afternoon's. So far today she keeps trying but nothing is happening. Her tummy feels bloated to the touch but not hard.
We aren't certain exactly what is happening...... or even for certain that she IS having a serious urinary problem.... just putting together several facts. We do know that she does not feel right, she keeps laying down on her belly, and she keeps standing in 'her place' where she likes to pee but can't. It has been an hour (she is not crying out) but seems confused.

I looked up Metacam and one of the side affects is: greatly decreased frequency of urination or amount of urine ---
but nothing states anything about creating other urinary issues.

Have offered many of her fav foods and several various liquids {ie cranberry juice} but she will take nothing.

We realize this could be crystals, but what to do........ and why so many suddenly? Her diet has not changed and is the same as the other four.



Have you taken her off Metacam?

[cava]

What you're describing sounds like "sludge" which is urine mixed with a bunch small crystals and it can cause irritation to the lining of the bladder and urethra and even a blockage.

We saw it a lot in male cats, rarely in females. Females mammals in general tend to have a shorter urethra and are less likely to get blocked. Is she dribbling urine/peeing on herself or do you think she is not able to urinate at all?

I'm so sorry she is feeling bad!

Also, what antibiotics do you have on hand. It might not hurt to start her on something in case she does have a UTI.

I'm not a UTI or stone expert in squirrels, just relaying my experience with domestic animals.

[RamaMama]

Have you taken her off Metacam?

She was dosed earlier today BEFORE I realized she actually was having a problem. Once I
had read it might be causing a problem I was/am upset that I had already dosed her... She will not get any more, at least until she
is alright.... will think about that.
{We also noticed that Dude peed very little this morning and I felt concern as he usually has to GO. Maybe ? }

So, years ago, when I saw that some of Seis's dry pee looked shiny I wondered what was going on... I taste tested a tiny bit.... it was
like dried coca cola..... tacky and super sweet.... that was how/when we found out she is diabetic. I figured that "taste test"
seemed to really help with a diagnoses {because we had NO vet help nor any lab back then} I decided to try again with the
white powder. The area of the "puddle" was gone but a couple of 'drops' were still visible...... I dampened my finger and gently touched the powder.... it was very bitter and burned like liquid cayenne pepper. I washed my mouth out
but the burning continued...... washed again. Most of the burning went away as time passed but now, two hours later I can still feel
that tiny spot on my tongue. Maybe a stupid thing to do BUT..... does this tell us anything ? ? important ? ?

[ScrappyDo]

She was dosed earlier today BEFORE I realized she actually was having a problem. Once I
had read it might be causing a problem I was/am upset that I had already dosed her... She will not get any more, at least until she
is alright.... will think about that.
{We also noticed that Dude peed very little this morning and I felt concern as he usually has to GO. Maybe ? }

So, years ago, when I saw that some of Seis's dry pee looked shiny I wondered what was going on... I taste tested a tiny bit.... it was
like dried coca cola..... tacky and super sweet.... that was how/when we found out she is diabetic. I figured that "taste test"
seemed to really help with a diagnoses {because we had NO vet help nor any lab back then} I decided to try again with the
white powder. The area of the "puddle" was gone but a couple of 'drops' were still visible...... I dampened my finger and gently touched the powder.... it was very bitter and burned like liquid cayenne pepper. I washed my mouth out
but the burning continued...... washed again. Most of the burning went away as time passed but now, two hours later I can still feel
that tiny spot on my tongue. Maybe a stupid thing to do BUT..... does this tell us anything ? ? important ? ?

Have you ever tasted urine from a healthy squirrel? I wonder if it's different. Is Seis' diet high in oxylates? I'm still learning, but from my understanding, high oxylates can cause crystal formation in squirrels.

[RamaMama]

[QUOTE=cava;1255326]What you're describing sounds like "sludge"

Is she dribbling urine/peeing on herself or do you think she is not able to urinate at all? She does not seem to be dribbling nor peeing on herself..... as of some time today it seems she can not urinate at
all.

I'm so sorry she is feeling bad!

Also, what antibiotics do you have on hand. ]It would be easier if it is thought
to be a UTI that suggestions of various AB's be mentioned rather than my listing what all I have.

Thanks for caring.
Waiting for more input etc.
:Love_Icon

[ScrappyDo]

It just sunk in my weary brain that it could be from the pharmaceuticals. So sorry. Hopefully stopping the meds will help.

[RamaMama]

Their diet does contain some fruits which are high in oxylates . Seis will be 5 at the end of this month
and like the others, has been eating pretty much the same diet since we got them... although Seis's
was modified a bit. And she is one who used to like HHB's...... now she can't gnaw on them {i have
tried various things for her to be able to eat them again but other than in boo balls it's a no go}

As for the oxylates........... anything is possible. I didn't feel they were getting too much of those
fruits but.................. hard to tell for certain.

[Toddy]

Just an idea, but try lowering her pH to a more acidic level by having her to eat more acidic fruits (tomato, apple, etc.). The higher acid content in those foods can help to disolve crystals in the urine and bladder. It will not cure her completely, but it may do enough in order for her to start urinating again...

I have always used Baytril for my squirrel's UTI's. It has worked every time.

[RamaMama]

Seis did a good pee this morning and it was tested for PH level and UTI.

Both are "Normal". Thinking I won't start her on AB's. Any thoughts?

{also tested Dude and Luna for PH level... both are Normal}

Last night Dude did pee.... part of good sized pee was covered with the white paper towel
and left til morning. {as a test }.
This morning when it was dry, under the paper was fine white powder. { ? ? } Any one
have any thoughts or clue if this is 'important'? Is it, could it be the Meta ? ?

Tonight when Luna pee's we will do the same. Never thought of it last night.

Both Seis and Dude had rough mornings for breathing, only Seis does not have the mucus issue ! !

Please tell thoughts on whether to continue to give Metacam... it isn't helping as much
now as after the first few days they were on it...... but, can't tell just how much until it
is stopped.

[CritterMom]

Rosie, has Seis had breathing issues before?

[RamaMama]

Rosie, has Seis had breathing issues before?


Yes!
About 6 to 7 months back Seis lost her top teeth { we do not know exactly how this happened } about 2 months
after the tooth loss she began to have some breathing issues. The breathing difficulty progressed VERY fast.

With the exception of Dude's mucus problem, Seis's breathing is usually much worse than his.

[cava]

Is it possible that the "white powder" is due to the paper towel? I wonder if you could try the experiment with cloth just to be sure.

I'm so glad the test strips indicated everything is normal!

[RamaMama]

Is it possible that the "white powder" is due to the paper towel? I wonder if you could try the experiment with cloth just to be sure.

I'm so glad the test strips indicated everything is normal!
The Neg results do ease our minds at least to a point. Don't think we will start Seis on AB's
unless a couple of other Rehabbers think we really NEED to.

I wondered that too about the paper > > > BUT there were 'drops of pee' not under the paper and
they had turned into pure white circles of white powder..... so not the paper.
I apologize as this may be a false alarm.... Seis was alarming us here and still wondering about the powdery substance.
Checked Luna's dried pee under paper but there was no powder. But will work towards double checking and doing the
three of them again with paper.
Confusing and concerning here.

[RamaMama]

PH tests this morning were WRONG ! !

I did not know Stosh bought { 3 } THREE different tests - PH - Keytones - one test strip for UTI {thought it was a whole
package of test strips...... turned out to be one strip and pills for treatment. Phhttt }

Dude, Seis, & Luna were tested for KEYTONES ! ! Which are what is normal {Great news!}. As well as Seis's UTI, normal.

Will do PH tests tonight I guess..... when I can get available clean pee.

What Exactly Are Ketones?
Everyone has them, whether you have diabetes or not. Ketones are chemicals made in your liver.

You produce them when you don't have enough of the hormone insulin in your body to turn sugar (or “glucose”) into energy.
You need another source, so your body uses fat instead.
A ketone test can warn you of a serious diabetes complication called diabetic ketoacidosis, or DKA.

An elevated level of this substance in your blood can mean you have very high blood sugar. Too many ketones can trigger DKA, which is a medical emergency.

[CritterMom]

Rosie, if you told me that the urine was drying to a white powder and the animals were getting MBD treatment I would assume that they were getting MORE calcium than their body could use and the excess was being passed out via urine. But any mineral in excess would do that I would think. Is Seis being supplemented in any way?

Of course it could be something in their diet. Foods do all sorts of different things to the appearance of urine...

[RamaMama]

Rosie, if you told me that the urine was drying to a white powder and the animals were getting MBD treatment I would assume that they were getting MORE calcium than their body could use and the excess was being passed out via urine. But any mineral in excess would do that I would think. Is Seis being supplemented in any way?

Of course it could be something in their diet. Foods do all sorts of different things to the appearance of urine...

They are getting extra Henry's Vitamins sprinkled on some of their food items. Should I stop for a couple of days with Seis and Dude and see if the 'powder' goes away?

Should I keep them on the Meta or take them both off.... ? OR wait until I stopped the extra Vit and see if that stops
the powder? ? ?

For the past few weeks, every so often Dude tries to eat the paint off the walls ! ! When we see him we stop him and or take the chip away.
DARN !

[CritterMom]

They are getting extra Henry's Vitamins sprinkled on some of their food items. Should I stop for a couple of days with Seis and Dude and see if the 'powder' goes away?

Should I keep them on the Meta or take them both off.... ? OR wait until I stopped the extra Vit and see if that stops
the powder? ? ?

For the past few weeks, every so often Dude tries to eat the paint off the walls ! ! When we see him we stop him and or take the chip away.
DARN !

If it is sheetrock or plaster I am sure he is - they all do. P has been working on a plaster of paris plant pedestal in my dining room for 8 years...

Yes - I am going to say that the vitamin mix is likely what you are seeing. Minerals don't dissolve - let's face it, they are ROCKS - so they cloud the urine when excess that hasn't been used is passed out in the pee. Stop for a day or two and if it clears, you can continue to give them vitamins, just give them less.

[RamaMama]

Seis is not doing well.

We do not know what is wrong. Today all she ate was a very small piece of nispero and a very small
pc of watermelon. She would act like she was going to eat, picking up something but then would
drop it. She pants a lot poor little beautiful girl. She has such a hard time breathing but no mucus.
Don't know what to do for her.

Once again tested her PH which went from 8,5 yesterday (too alkaline) to 6.5 today. Keytones today were
about at a 5 which is a trace. None of her numbers are really bad in one direction or another... too high nor
too low.

We did not see any powder under her (or Dude's) dried pee today. Two days without extra vitamins. Maybe
that was the reason. Will keep watch.
Opted NOT to give her any more Metacam today..... once again she did not pee this afternoon. ( ??? ) But, going
to get Stosh to 'take her out of her nest box' tonight and put her on the floor for a bit....... see if she will GO !

We need to check her teeth again ? ? ? ..... they were trimmed Feb 14th.

Wish we could help her more.

:Love_Icon

[TubeDriver]

I would not give Metacam until she is hydrated. Keep offering watermelon, sweetened water, any fruit with high water content to try and get her hydrated. Probably should check her teeth and mouth to make sure everything looks normal, it has been over two weeks so teeth could have grown? In people, ph of 6.5 would be considered improvement or better.

:grouphug


Seis is not doing well.

We do not know what is wrong. Today all she ate was a very small piece of nispero and a very small
pc of watermelon. She would act like she was going to eat, picking up something but then would
drop it. She pants a lot poor little beautiful girl. She has such a hard time breathing but no mucus.
Don't know what to do for her.

Once again tested her PH which went from 8,5 yesterday (too alkaline) to 6.5 today. Keytones today were
about at a 5 which is a trace. None of her numbers are really bad in one direction or another... too high nor
too low.

We did not see any powder under her (or Dude's) dried pee today. Two days without extra vitamins. Maybe
that was the reason. Will keep watch.
Opted NOT to give her any more Metacam today..... once again she did not pee this afternoon. ( ??? ) But, going
to get Stosh to 'take her out of her nest box' tonight and put her on the floor for a bit....... see if she will GO !

We need to check her teeth again ? ? ? ..... they were trimmed Feb 14th.

Wish we could help her more.

:Love_Icon

[HRT4SQRLS]

Sorry RamaMama for not being able to help sooner.
As long as she is urinating I wouldn't be as concerned about that.

The lack of appetite is concerning as it's a clear indicator of 'something' going on.
Personally I would be more concerned about the breathing issues. It could indicate a progression of the 'odontoma'. ????
I realize that we are speculating about the odontoma but the symptoms do indicate it.

With the odontoma, infection is always a concern. I would treat her with Clavamox. It will address infection in the sinuses associated with odontoma and would also treat a UTI if one exists. I would definitely discontinue the Vitamin powder until things settle down. I don't supplement with the vitamins although I will occasionally sprinkle a little calcium carbonate on the food.

I wish things could settle down for our Costa Rica friends. :grouphug

[JLM27]

I would not give Metacam until she is hydrated. Keep offering watermelon, sweetened water, any fruit with high water content to try and get her hydrated. Probably should check her teeth and mouth to make sure everything looks normal, it has been over two weeks so teeth could have grown? In people, ph of 6.5 would be considered improvement or better.

:grouphug

My guys like their water flavored by putting an almond or two in it (not almond flavor or anything like that). Instead of sugar, could you try just soaking a nut in the water?

[RamaMama]

The lack of appetite is concerning as it's a clear indicator of 'something' going on.
Personally I would be more concerned about the breathing issues. It could indicate a progression of the 'odontoma'. ????

With the odontoma, infection is always a concern. I would treat her with Clavamox. :grouphug

Thank you for all your wisdom and information.
There are questions here about Seis's teeth and the "O".
When we first checked where her top incisor's used to be the 'sockets' looked hollow....
now it looks almost as if she never even had teeth.... where the sockets should be is barely visible....... I think - will look
again when we check her bottoms for length.
How can the those top teeth simply disappear completely {and her bottom teeth appear to be healthy and continue to grow?
Is the complete disappearance of the top teeth one of the warning signs of Odontoma?

I have 'one' Clavamox - 1000 mg > > it has a 'indentation' where it could be cut in half.

Seis weight - 603 grams

[TubeDriver]

The top and bottom teeth are completely independent so you can have odontoma on the top teeth and healthy bottom teeth.
I would think that the disappearance of the top teeth and sockets is a warning that the teeth are not healthy and are diseased or damaged. I don't think it means 100% odontoma but I would be concerned.

Double check that strength of Clavamox (1000mg?) as that is an unusual size?

If it is 1000mg, then cut in half and than cut into 1/4 tablets. Take one of the 1/4 size tablets (250mg) and crush. Add 4ml warm water and shake well until in solution. Give 0.19ml of that solution twice per day (morning and evening) for 7 days. I would give a probiotic powder mid day bewteen the two dosage times.

Since the tablet is "indented" or scored it can be cut up. Clavamox is VERY sensative to moisture and light so place in a sealed ziplock bag and store somewhere dark.



Thank you for all your wisdom and information.
There are questions here about Seis's teeth and the "O".
When we first checked where her top incisor's used to be the 'sockets' looked hollow....
now it looks almost as if she never even had teeth.... where the sockets should be is barely visible....... I think - will look
again when we check her bottoms for length.
How can the those top teeth simply disappear completely {and her bottom teeth appear to be healthy and continue to grow?
Is the complete disappearance of the top teeth one of the warning signs of Odontoma?

I have 'one' Clavamox - 1000 mg > > it has a 'indentation' where it could be cut in half.

Seis weight - 603 grams

[RamaMama]

Seis Update

Seis was started on Clavamox for possible sinus and UTI infections.

She is not eating much..... and has a very difficult time eating when she tries.
Her teeth NEED trimming. We had hoped to do it tomorrow..... the Vet has once again
run out of the "gas" and had to order more. She had a lot of emergency's.
Hoping, shooting for FRIDAY ! Seis really needs this done NOW.

She is having such a terrible time with her breathing.... poor baby.

Bummer !
We love her.
:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[stosh2010]

SEIS is such a "picky" eater, and because she is taking medication, we need to keep her extra hydrated. BUT we found that she likes pineapple juice and water 50/50, and tonight she took almost 7 cc of the juice /water mix. GOOD GIRL.

[RamaMama]

Today Seis ate almost noting and drank NOTHING ! NOTHING ! !

She refused every thing.

She is having serious breathing difficulties beside her teeth being much too long {still waiting on the Vet here
to get the Iso gas} .
Seis now breathes almost completely through her mouth which makes eating and drinking extremely
difficult to impossible and sleeping is rough.
Most likely she is swallowing a lot of air and it is making her tummy bloat which can also cause pain.

I have not given her the Metacam any more.........

I am concerned about continuing the AB Clavamox since it will be given on a totally
empty stomach and she refuses everything I try to give her with the probiotic as well.

Any suggestions out there?

[TubeDriver]

I am really not sure what you can do? You have tried ABs and painkillers, that pretty much covers most of the meds you can give.

I’ll throw this idea out but I am very UNSURE about whether this is worth trying. I wonder if pred would help with swelling and help her breathing? But pred also interferes with the immune system so you might be getting short term relief but risking worse infection in the long run.

I would give Seis some nice treats in her nest area. Even if she does not eat them, it might make the squirrel in her happy to know she has some treats cached away.

:grouphug

[HRT4SQRLS]

I don't know either Rosie. :( Maybe Simethicone (GasX) for the swallowed air.
Tramadol for pain... beyond that I really don't know.

[RamaMama]

This Crew is driving me NutZ. :skwredup

Yesterday it looked like Seis's time was...........
by this afternoon she is doing better.

Although Seis still having a difficult time breathing.... she ate {esp this afternoon},
we made her drink {right} and she has easily peed several times......
and she is not as bloated looking as the last few days.

This morning started her BACK on the Clavamox....... and at noon gave her the Metacam.

Will keep watch and see if she stays about the same as far as eating some and peeing.....
will make guesses as to what direction to take depending on HER.
Her PH and Keytones are perfect.

I will be calling the Vet shortly here ----- sure hope she has the ISO GAS in today and
early app tomorrow for Seis.
:Love_Icon

[JLM27]

If you stopped medication and she got better could she be having a reaction to it. I am reactive to a list of antibiotics and ingestible substances and yes they affect my breathing and my tummy.

[RamaMama]

If you stopped medication and she got better could she be having a reaction to it. I am reactive to a list of antibiotics and ingestible substances and yes they affect my breathing and my tummy.

Yes, I was and am wondering that too. That is why I will watch and see if the same thing happens again......... if so, I can
have at least some reasonable thought that it could be the part of the problem. She would be taken off the med asap.
Then another course of action may be required.
:grouphug

[stosh2010]

Seis was acting very WEIRD today, She was spending time in the newspapers that line the bottom of her cage. THAT is a First !
She always avoids the bottom of her box. She has been lying on her side also. I had hoped it was the heat, and that some A/C would cure it.
Just some Bizarre behavior from our pretty girl.
Then we noticed the bubbly vomit. I looks like saliva, but with a million bubbles. ???

299731299732

[Nancy in New York]

stosh go to this link.
It's about the toxicity of some inks in newpapers.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?39283-Newspapers-for-bedding&highlight=newspapers

[stosh2010]

Sorry RamaMama for not being able to help sooner.
As long as she is urinating I wouldn't be as concerned about that.

The lack of appetite is concerning as it's a clear indicator of 'something' going on.
Personally I would be more concerned about the breathing issues. It could indicate a progression of the 'odontoma'. ????
I realize that we are speculating about the odontoma but the symptoms do indicate it.

With the odontoma, infection is always a concern. I would treat her with Clavamox. It will address infection in the sinuses associated with odontoma and would also treat a UTI if one exists. I would definitely discontinue the Vitamin powder until things settle down. I don't supplement with the vitamins although I will occasionally sprinkle a little calcium carbonate on the food.

I wish things could settle down for our Costa Rica friends. :grouphug

Seis still has little appetite. We will get a current weight tomorrow and compare to last week to see if she is losing weight.
Her breathing difficulty is much more pronounced and he belly seems "bloated"and looks larger than is normal.
We were wondering if we should start Seis on a round of the same meds we are starting the Dude on ??
Both squirrels have reduced appetite, have breathing issues, and just lie around with little energy.
WE worry so much --that we are not helping our squirrels enough.
Seeing them having difficulties makes us anxious.

[stosh2010]

stosh go to this link.
It's about the toxicity of some inks in newpapers.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?39283-Newspapers-for-bedding&highlight=newspapers

I read the info on the newspaper ink. Thank you.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Seis still has little appetite. We will get a current weight tomorrow and compare to last week to see if she is losing weight.
Her breathing difficulty is much more pronounced and he belly seems "bloated"and looks larger than is normal.
We were wondering if we should start Seis on a round of the same meds we are starting the Dude on ??
Both squirrels have reduced appetite, have breathing issues, and just lie around with little energy.
WE worry so much --that we are not helping our squirrels enough.
Seeing them having difficulties makes us anxious.

No, I wouldn't start Seis on Azithromycin. Azithromycin is a very narrow spectrum antibiotic. In the Dude's case we are trying to find 'something' 'anything' that will treat the very resistant Staph. aureus that we KNOW he has.

In Seis's case we don't know what we are treating but organisms of the respiratory tract (usual flora) would be the most likely cause of infection associated with trauma due to odontoma invasion into sinus tissues. I would use a broad spectrum antibiotic like Clavamox.

With odontoma, a bloated belly is associated with swallowed air due to mouth breathing because of sinus obstruction. Squirrels just aren't effective mouth breathers. :(

[RamaMama]

And now our little Seis-y Girl.

This Thread is only 2 pages at this point. Even though the Thread sounds like it is aimed at a Urinary problem
much info about Seis's breathing and what has been done in the last month or so are available as well.

Seis is not doing well at all and her breathing is becoming more labored. She continues to eat very little....... we
can see that she really feels like crap and her weight went from 603 on March 5th to 583 on March 25.

She has been on Clavamox repeatedly, but not at present. .... it does little if anything.

She was struggling so much this afternoon I went ahead a dosed her with Metacam.. ... and put drops in her nose.

I know there was a urinating issue with the Meta previously and will use it very sparingly BUT I am hoping to ease
any inflammation which may be contributing to her breathing problem.

We had hoped to get her teeth trimmed this week but our lives took a different turn and yesterday and today Vet
not open.
We are aiming for tomorrow, perhaps the Vet will be open but it is a long shot.. Although trimming her teeth
might encourage her to eat a little more the breathing will continue to be a part of the problem of not eating.
There are "times" when she will surprise us and and begin to eat the best she can............. but it is not much
as you can see by the weight-loss.

I have chopped, mashed, liquefied and cooked her food at various times........... she refuses.
She will drink {most of the time }a shake made of Boo Balls, FV, and water., but there are times
when she chokes on it as well.

If anyone has any suggestions and knows of Seis's continuing problem we are open to suggestions.
Her problem/s seem to be exacerbating exponentially. I know we are most likely asking for the
impossible............ but, I/We simply NO LONGER KNOW WHAT TO DO ! and this is getting BAD.
She struggles all day every day.
:Love_Icon:boohoo:Love_Icon

:dono :dono Does this really have to be happening now. :dono :dono

[HRT4SQRLS]

Rosie, when you get the teeth trimmed are you referring to the bottom incisors?
Do the top teeth grow at all? Does she ever have white years?

[RamaMama]

The bottoms are the ones being trimmed. There are no top teeth at all, not for many months
not even stubs...... just sockets.

She gets squinty eyed OFTEN but I do not recall ever seeing the milky tears.

I tried to give her 1/2 and 1/2 water and pineapple juice {picky girl} and she could only
take one drop at a time {literally}, trying to breathe between each drop. Stop for about 5 minutes so
she could catch her breathe then start again.... but she only took about 1 1/2 cc and then
did not want to continue.

[Nancy in New York]

Have you tried to gently suction her nose with the bulb.
I think you said that her nose isn't the problem, but perhaps something
will come out if you try to gently suction.
How long are her bottom teeth now, can you take a picture.
Is it possible they are puncturing the roof of her mouth?
:Love_Icon Seis :Love_Icon

[Mel1959]

If she has no upper teeth growing down then are they growing inward as odontoma?

[RamaMama]

Have you tried to gently suction her nose with the bulb.
I think you said that her nose isn't the problem, but perhaps something
will come out if you try to gently suction.
How long are her bottom teeth now, can you take a picture.
Is it possible they are puncturing the roof of her mouth?
:Love_Icon Seis :Love_Icon

Right now Seis is quiet in bed..... if we make her come out and burrito her for photo's
she will hyper-breathe for a long time so we will wait until morning when she is already up.
Hope that is alright.

[Nancy in New York]

Can you just refresh us how and when you noticed that Seis no longer
had her upper teeth?
Did this occur after a tooth trimming? I can't recall.

[RamaMama]

Can you just refresh us how and when you noticed that Seis no longer
had her upper teeth?
Did this occur after a tooth trimming? I can't recall.

Some time late in 2017 we noticed Seis's upper teeth were badly broken. {She is not and never
has been a cage chewer.... only branches and almendras, she loved almendra nuts}
We THINK she may have broken her top teeth in a fall, she used to climb around the door
frame's in the playrooms. She could have taken a tumble. Never saw any blood, and not
sure how long the uppers were broken before we actually noticed....... we knew something was
wrong when we saw that she did not want to chew on the almendras. Her top teeth stopped
growing and then we had to start trimming the bottoms, not sure of that date, but it was right
after that that the short uppers, broken to the gum-line, began to completely disappear.
She has had multiple trimmings since.
We keep checking where her uppers should be but every time we look there is nothing.
We will see about getting pix today.
IF we can't due to her struggling, then we will do it when we take her for the trim.

We have suctioned her nose in the past but were never able to get any thing out..... it always sounded
like all her mucus was going down her throat > > > until this morning !

She has goo coming out both sides of her nose. We tried to suction but were only able to get a tiny bit
out. Not enough to take on Monday for testing. Will try again, later if we see any coming out.

She feels terrible BUT, she has had SOOOO MANY AB's over the past year I WILL NOT dose until I can
get a Lab test to know what type of infection this is.

I pray she does not also have the Staff A.

She is squinty eyed and backed into a corner by her nest box. I gave her some Tramadol.
Will keep offering Boo Ball shakes throughout the day.

Sorry this is so long - wanted to try to cover every thing.

Poor Baby <> this is not happiness ! ! !

[Toddy]

How is Seis doing? :grouphug

[RamaMama]

Seis had a very rough day.

She stayed in one place for several hours, huddled up against her nest box, never moved except
occasionally to rub her nose, .
I gave her a "shake" in the morning..... tried to give her more later but she refused.
She ate a tiny bit of mushroom....... with much difficulty.
She has a lot of mucus.
We tried to suction once this morning but got very little....... all seems to be in the back of her
throat.
This afternoon we could see mucus right at the exit of her nostril and thought we might suction again but when we
held her and looked it was just on the very tip of her nose, not going up inside. She'd had a tiny
tiny bit of blood around the outside of her nostril this morning about an hour or two after we did
the suction..... not sure if it was from the suction or because she kept rubbing her nose on her branch.
She also appears to have a sore on one side, which could also be due to rubbing on the wood trying to get
the mucus off or out of her nose.
I gave her about 4 cc liquid but she refuses and fights........
Vet was not in her office today.
We opted not to try to get pix as there is nothing we can do right now until the Vet returns.
Hoping to be able to trim Seis's teeth Monday....... but what to do in the meantime.

I was going to put more drops in her nose tonight but when I saw the sore I was concerned that it will burn.
Plus if we do it too often it will have the opposite effect and then her excessive breathing difficulties would be
made that much worse.

We are at our wits end here.

Seis is mirroring Dude, but her situation is becoming serious much faster than Dude's ever did.
I gave her Tramadol this morning but it did not seem to do anything to help her.

I have no clue what direction to take this evening if any.
Maybe just let her be. She is in her nest box and currently not making much noise breathing.
:Love_Icon

[Toddy]

Oh dear, I'm so sorry to hear that Seis had yet another rough day. Poor girl... :Love_Icon
I wish there was something that could be done, but like you said, there is little more you can do until the vet returns.
Sending support and prayers your way :grouphug

[HRT4SQRLS]

I would Rosie... leave her alone that is. She might be sleeping and that would be a good thing. :grouphug

[RamaMama]

Seis continues in a bad way.......

her breathing is worse.
she has what appear to be scaling sores around one nostril
ate nothing yesterday - stayed in her box
gave her some pineapple juice but she wanted very little
gave her Metacam
tried to suction her nose as one side looked all covered with goo
but got very little out - not even enough to have tested which is a BUMMER

today she is actually WORSE
can hardly breathe
did come out of her box but stayed in a corner leaning against the door

I am concerned if I use nose drops it will worsen the sores, or maybe it cause them/it ? ? ?

Honestly ----- I do not know if even getting her teeth trimmed is going to help with her breathing
BUT I sure so it makes a HUGE difference
I am afraid to give her Tram in the chance that we are able to get her teeth trimmed this morning.... ? ? ?
her breathing and the way she "looks" is that bad and rather scary........... VERY WORRIED HERE ! ! !
and the Meta just does not """ seem """ to do much of anything... ? ? any suggestions ? ? ? ? ? .:Love_Icon

[BCChins]

I DO NOT know this hopefully someone else will answer
Can you use Antihistamines in Squirrels or Benadryl ?

[cava]

Are you able to get emergency care from the vet who does her teeth?

I'm sorry she is feeling so bad.:Love_Icon

[RamaMama]

Are you able to get emergency care from the vet who does her teeth?

I'm sorry she is feeling so bad.:Love_Icon


Stosh will be at her office as soon as she opens............
he is going to insist that this is an ER situation.......

this is no guarantee.

[stosh2010]

300196300197300198
When it rains...it pours....
Now our little Seis is getting worse---very fast.
She stands..leaning against the side of her box...head tilted up...trying to get a good breath.
Poor little girl.
The vet has been closed for the holiday weekend for 4 days...
Today I will insist on a morning visit.
God protect my little girl.

300202

[lennysmom]

Many prayers going up for beautiful Seis.:Love_Icon I hope the vet will see her.:grouphug

[RamaMama]

We have an appointment with the Vet at noon.

I gave Seis about 2 cc of Ensure..... it took some time as she can only take a few drops then
has to stop - and try to breathe.

I am going ask the Vet if she knows a way to get a specimen from Seis's nose other than just
trying to suction........ which we hesitate to do as it does nothing or very little the few times
we tried as of late.
Yesterday, at one point when I tried to give her an HHB shake, she only took a tiny amount
and started coughing.... she coughed up a little white goo into her mouth....... but I could
not get any for the Lab. { I know what yeast infection looks like -- it is white and pasty....
this was shiny and gooey}.

We were hoping the pix Stosh posted would show the "sores" on the side of Seis's nostril.
She was rubbing it on the branches in her cage this morning - either that is creating the
problem or making an existing sore worse.
? ? ?

She now refuses the HHB shakes - will only take a tiny bit of Ensure off and on.

[Mel1959]

I believe this is a fungal infection in her sinus cavity. Antibiotics won’t help it. I know of another squirrel that had a fungal infection in its nasal cavity and Dr. E had to do some nasal washes with medicine. It was a very risky procedure.

I hope you get some answers about Seis.

I don’t know what the sores on the side of the nose/mouth might be. At this point I’d treat topically with antibiotic ointment and watch for infection.

:Love_Icon Seis :Love_Icon

[RamaMama]

Seis's teeth are trimmed and we can see the tips of two top teeth. Whether they
could "grow" or not - we do not know. What we do know is her breathing is no
better at all.
There was such a small amount of mucus that we had to choose one test or the
other; we opted for the bacteria as Dude's was clear from fungal.....
hope we can get more mucus so we can get a fungal test ASAP but that one takes
a month.
DANG !
I am wondering how they test here, as when Dude's results came back rather than simply
stating 'no fungus' it said "no candida". I was going to ask for a test for Aspergillus fumigatus....
but do not want them to just "focus" on that one type of fungus. Any one have any idea
HOW Labs do these tests..... > ? ? ? ?
Stosh and I are OVER THE TOP stressed right now.

[Toddy]

I'm so glad Seis got her teeth trimmed and was able to see the vet :Love_Icon

I am just thinking out loud here, but is it possible that her breathing difficulty is being caused by her two top teeth growing inwards, opposed to out? You mentioned she had a fall a few months ago, which shattered her two top incisors. Could this trauma have caused these teeth to start regrowing inwards somehow, leading to a sinus obstruction and subsequent infection?

[RamaMama]

What a BUMMER !

I sit here crying..... no test for Seis ! ! ! !

The sample was TOO SMALL..... GOD, HOW MUCH DO they NEED FOR ONE SLIDE ? ? ! !

:loveSeis :love > > > is NOT IN A GOOD PLACE ! ! !

:boohoo

Neither are we.

[TubeDriver]

I think that seeing some top teeth growing back in is GOOD!


Typically, lab orders can be done "A la Cart" (ie you check off any of the specific tests on the menu that you want performed) or sometimes they offer a collective panel of tests (like a standard grouping might be for several parasites or types of bacteria). So you could ask for specific tests or see if that would be included in a panel of tests that routinely ordered together. it all depends on what the lab is capable of running but a vet may use several labs depending on what they are testing for.


Here is an example of a order menu from a lab I have used:

http://www.vetdna.com/application/forms/smallanimalsubmissionform.pdf









Seis's teeth are trimmed and we can see the tips of two top teeth. Whether they
could "grow" or not - we do not know. What we do know is her breathing is no
better at all.
There was such a small amount of mucus that we had to choose one test or the
other; we opted for the bacteria as Dude's was clear from fungal.....
hope we can get more mucus so we can get a fungal test ASAP but that one takes
a month.
DANG !
I am wondering how they test here, as when Dude's results came back rather than simply
stating 'no fungus' it said "no candida". I was going to ask for a test for Aspergillus fumigatus....
but do not want them to just "focus" on that one type of fungus. Any one have any idea
HOW Labs do these tests..... > ? ? ? ?
Stosh and I are OVER THE TOP stressed right now.

[RamaMama]

I'm so glad Seis got her teeth trimmed and was able to see the vet :Love_Icon

I am just thinking out loud here, but is it possible that her breathing difficulty is being caused by her two top teeth growing inwards,
opposed to out? leading to a sinus obstruction and subsequent infection?

YES ! ! We have stated for some time Seis may have an
Odontoma due to her uppers growing INWARDS ! ! !

BUT, she now has mucus and possible INFECTION......... and we can not treat until we KNOW what KIND OF INFECTION ! ! ! !

[Toddy]

I think that seeing some top teeth growing back in is GOOD!

Are the visible top teeth remnants of the original shattered teeth, or totally new growth?

[RamaMama]

Are the visible top teeth remnants of the original shattered teeth, or totally new growth?

Don't know !

How can one tell ? ? ? ?

[stosh2010]

300232
New uppers have just this week appeared...months have passed with just empty sockets in her upper jaw. I hope this means new incisors will appear--soon.
300234


558

[stosh2010]

Seis has developed some new "sores" on the right side of her nose. Maybe from a scratch ?? We're not sure. We took a small mucus sample from her nose, to our lab, but the sample was too small to get proper results.

300235

[TubeDriver]

I would not give her anything hard to chew on for a few weeks. Let her upper teeth have every opportunity to get longer!

Not sure what those scratches are, could be from so many things.

[cava]

Is she excessively wiping her face or rubbing her nose on things?

[HRT4SQRLS]

I think she is clawing at her nose because she can't breathe.
Personally, I wouldn't wait for cultures. I would throw all I have at her to give her a little relief.

It wouldn't matter that it didn't work in the past.
I would treat for inflammation.... Metacam.
I would treat for pain.... Tramadol.
I would treat for infection... it could even be stacked, Clavamox and Ciprofloxacin.

She needs relief or release. :sadness It pains me to say that. You guys have been through so much. :Love_Icon It's just not fair. :boohoo

[RamaMama]

I think she is clawing at her nose because she can't breathe.
Personally,
I wouldn't wait for cultures. I would throw all I have at her to give her a little relief.

It wouldn't matter that it didn't work in the past.
I would treat for inflammation.... Metacam.
I would treat for pain.... Tramadol.
I would treat for infection... it could even be stacked, Clavamox and Ciprofloxacin.

She needs relief or release. :sadness It pains me to say that. You guys have been through so much. :Love_Icon It's just not fair. :boohoo

Thank YOU ! This is what I was feeling too... I was going to ask just this question which you already answered ...... just treat her with whatever we THINK may work best >>

and Hope and Pray ! !

I will check my clavamox and Cipro and get her recent weight.
Would you recommend the Meta at night or morning..... Tram every so many hours or twice a day >>>???
Will PM soon.

[RamaMama]

While Stosh was in FL a few TSB Friends sent some meds.........

one was a tiny white pill wrapped in white paper.... ? some how it became separated from
it's package and we do not know what it is.

On one side of the pill is a V and on the other is 50/93

Any one Know what medication this is?


Thanks

[TubeDriver]

Prednisone 10mg pill.



While Stosh was in FL a few TSB Friends sent some meds.........

one was a tiny white pill wrapped in white paper.... ? some how it became separated from
it's package and we do not know what it is.

On one side of the pill is a V and on the other is 50/93

Any one Know what medication this is?


Thanks

[RamaMama]

Seis tried to drink and eat just a little cooked apple and a few nibbles of soft pear......

then threw up.
Wonder why she can't keep food or liquids down even when she does try........ she certainly did not
throw it all up.......... we are thinking maybe she is gagging and that the throwing up is just a reaction
to that..........
??

Going to give her some Tramadol once I know that she has stopped getting sick so it may be after she
goes to sleep for a bit.

About and hour later I will give her the AB's.

[RamaMama]

Although Seis has sores on one side of her nostral does any one feel/think it a good idea to
use some decongestant nose drops tonight ?

Can they be used along with the AB;s Clavamox and Cipro ? ? ? ?

I have been using 'Silver Sulfadiazine' on Seis's sore nose area. Is that a good thing OR
would it be better to use a topical Antibiotic ?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Yes, the nose drops would be fine. If she's asleep I wouldn't wake her though.

I don't think the scratch on the nose is a big concern but the cream will be fine. I would probably use the antibiotic ointment.

[RamaMama]

Seis has been given her Tram and AB's, the nose drops and the topical antibiotic.

At present she is standing on her platform trying to breathe. I hope she will calm down
and by morning feel at least a bit better.

Bless her beautiful little heart.

:Love_Icon:grouphug:Love_Icon

[Scooterzmom]

I was wondering - can't recall if the issue has been raised on the thread, I just don't remember reading it on the thread - if by chance you had your home checked by a mold specialist. I realize that things may be quite different in CR, so pardon me if I seem out of line, I'm just sayin'... just in case. I know that here and in the US, there are professionals who go check homes after floods or roof leaks etc and test the house from top to bottom, each corner, attics, etc for various types of molds. They have special tools to detect those.

Now, please, I don't mean to alarm you, and I'm sorry if this is worrisome for you re. your critters, but I think it may well be worth your while to have that done.

Thing is, some molds are very resistant even to chlorine and other cleaners. Some of them are so bad and dangerous they cannot be cleaned out and therefore the owner becomes eligible for insurance compensation. Molds, depending on the variety can cause a whole range of health issues... not just respiratory ones.

It's just that it strikes me as odd that at one time or another it seems all of the critters have or are suffering from respiratory issues. I so wish there was something better I could do for you guys. Like I said, I don't mean to alarm you, that is not my intention, but I would not forgive myself if I thought there was something I could have suggested to help but I had not.

[Nancy in New York]

:Love_Icon Seis, I hope you had an easier night. :Love_Icon

[RamaMama]

Seis had a bit of a rough morning and I had to keep wiping her nose so she could
breathe past the thick mucus.

A little later she ate some cooked spiced apple, sm piece of pear, and a rather large piece of watermelon
plus she drank some juice. She has not really wanted to eat for 2 or more days
so this is good even tho she did not eat much.

I hope she keeps it down

She continues to sit in one spot all hunkered down in a ball with her fur and tail all puffed out.
Praying here in CR.
She feels like skin and bones, she was our biggest baby, the chunk-a-monk.
:Love_Icon

[TubeDriver]

:grouphug

[stosh2010]

I was wondering - can't recall if the issue has been raised on the thread, I just don't remember reading it on the thread - if by chance you had your home checked by a mold specialist. I realize that things may be quite different in CR, so pardon me if I seem out of line, I'm just sayin'... just in case. I know that here and in the US, there are professionals who go check homes after floods or roof leaks etc and test the house from top to bottom, each corner, attics, etc for various types of molds. They have special tools to detect those.

Now, please, I don't mean to alarm you, and I'm sorry if this is worrisome for you re. your critters, but I think it may well be worth your while to have that done.



It's just that it strikes me as odd that at one time or another it seems all of the critters have or are suffering from respiratory issues. I so wish there was something better I could do for you guys. Like I said, I don't mean to alarm you, that is not my intention, but I would not forgive myself if I thought there was something I could have suggested to help but I had not.

Thanks for the suggestions..
Hard to explain how different the conditions are --here. Floods, mud, and an old house with iguanas running all around.... Plus I rent and the owner will spend next to nothing on any improvements...and responsibility to tenant---Ha! It's Costa Rica--you're
ON YOUR OWN.

[BCChins]

Can you do a steam treatment in the bathroom to maybe loosen some of the discharge?

[Scooterzmom]

Thanks for the suggestions..
Hard to explain how different the conditions are --here. Floods, mud, and an old house with iguanas running all around.... Plus I rent and the owner will spend next to nothing on any improvements...and responsibility to tenant---Ha! It's Costa Rica--you're
ON YOUR OWN.



Yeah... I can imagine. Just thought mayyyybe...

So sorry for the situation you're living :( Keeping all of you in my prayers.

[RamaMama]

Can you do a steam treatment in the bathroom to maybe loosen some of the discharge?

Thank you BCChins for reminding us. :blowkiss
We decided to to as you stated. We used to do that for Dude.

After the 'steam' session Seis began to cough and gag and several times brought out white stuff; there
was quite a lot considering she is a little girl
At first it was thick gooey and slimy then it became foamy. But, after that she ate more than she has eaten
in several days.
She still looks really bad, can hardly breathe, and has lost even more weight since 3/25.

She is not a happy little girl but with at least a little food now in her tummy she may feel a bit better
tonight. :Love_Icon

[stosh2010]

Can you do a steam treatment in the bathroom to maybe loosen some of the discharge?

We did steam treatment and nose drops, and 2 days after the tooth trim she is sleeping more quietly, and we had hoped that feeling better would improve her appetite, but still her breathing is restricted.
Our main issue now is food intake.
She eats tiny sections of several foods, but as she eats her breathing get harder and she stops...(and chokes)
She has lost 78 grams in 10 days. OH MY___
She eats almost nothing, then some times she will vomit it up.
She also spits up this slimy stuff from her stomach. Probably what she is snorting & swallowing.
Then we need to regularly dose ABs..and with her gagging and choking we worry about making her swallow the meds.
----------------------WHY ? She is such a sweet girl.
If she continues on this weight loss decline...we are at a loss on how to get nourishment.
Fox valley...she will sip about 2 or 3 cc.
Boo Balls she will eat one the size of a pencil eraser--given in 8 tiny balls !!
Mashed food , occasionally she nibbles.
How do we feed her ?? PLEASE. any thoughts are welcomed.


791

[TubeDriver]

Keep trying to get her to drink a little, she will not want to eat if she is dehydrated. Mash up different foods and offer her a choice, see what see will eat. That is a LOT of weight loss, I don’t know how much more she can endure? :(

:grouphug

[stosh2010]

Keep trying to get her to drink a little, she will not want to eat if she is dehydrated. Mash up different foods and offer her a choice, see what see will eat. That is a LOT of weight loss, I don’t know how much more she can endure? :(

:grouphug

Our concern......as well.

She has a bowl of water or coco water or juice available--all day. She does take drinks often.
( Oh Lord, please don't force us into a life/death decision...AGAIN)

300309

[Toddy]

Just an idea, but have you tried offering her warm rolled oats or oatmeal? When Tod was sick, oatmeal was the only thing she would eat. I would take about half a teaspoon of oatmeal, pour boiling water over it, then let it cool a bit. I offered it to her when it was still warm, which she seemed to like. The oatmeal helps to settle their stomachs and coats the GI tract. The oatmeal also absorbs a lot of water, so it is a good source for hydration as well. It may be worth a try...

Praying for Seis :Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon:grouphug

[stosh2010]

Just an idea, but have you tried offering her warm rolled oats or oatmeal? When Tod was sick, oatmeal was the only thing she would eat. I would take about half a teaspoon of oatmeal, pour boiling water over it, then let it cool a bit. I offered it to her when it was still warm, which she seemed to like. The oatmeal helps to settle their stomachs and coats the GI tract. The oatmeal also absorbs a lot of water, so it is a good source for hydration as well. It may be worth a try...

Praying for Seis :Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon:grouphug

We will offer that --tomorrow....(pray she can keep it down....)

[Toddy]

We will offer that --tomorrow....(pray she can keep it down....)

I hope it helps her...:hug
Let the oatmeal soak in the boiling water for a few minutes so that it absorbes as much water as possible. That will make it very soft too, which may help her to eat it.
If she doesn't eat it with just the water, you could also try sweetening it with something you know she likes

[RamaMama]

Made the Oatmeal. Will offer soon.

Also had mixed FV, almond butter, Ensure, and a little extra HHP Vitamins. Giving to her
2 CC every hour..... IF she keeps it down.

Working at keeping her 'fluid' level up. It is difficult as every thing is pretty much giving through
a syringe... which means we have to keep getting her, holding and burrito her.

Holding and burritoing her causing her to struggle more to breathe. It is a Catch 22.

I did not give her any Metacam last night....... she had a very rough afternoon and early evening....
once she went into her nest box and went asleep I decided to just let her sleep, checking on her
multiple times.

A HUGE if, but IF we can help her get better :Love_Icon she will have beaten the odds. She is not in a good place.

[RamaMama]

Now this is JUST PERFECT ! !

I am so pissed and upset !

While I was giving Seis her "shake" she did a little cough and up came some of the "slime". She wasn't choking,
just coughed. I wiped her mouth with two small tissues, of course a little of the "shake" got on the paper.
I always give her a little drink of some kind of juice after the AB's because they are so bitter..........
some how I dropped one tissue

I did not SEE it fall under the table.

I run around like a crazy person some times, and I went to let Rama out of a playroom......

he found the tissue and tore it up trying to get the "shake"............ I found the little peices and he
was out and about.

I am beside myself with fear that he too may get whatever infection Seis has.
What can I DO to build up his immune system.... I do certain things for us humans but what can I give
a squirrel.
I use extra Vit C, blackberry extract, Holy Basil, extra Vitamins, complex B, ? ? ? ?

Now another fearful worry. MY Baby Boy ! !

[RamaMama]

Seis keeps going to the bottom of her cage.

I gave her a very small dose of Tram less than 1/2 a dose.
Gave her the oatmeal which she has always loved....... but she no sooner ate a tiny portion than
started throwing up. It happens just about every time she tries to eat....... like her stomack
is full of the slime and putting food in there makes her sick.

She is on the bottom of her cage where she goes a lot.... she was laying splayed on her back
and I was going to put her in her nest box but Stosh said, if she is comfortable, let her be.

:Love_Icon :boohoo :boohoo :boohoo :boohoo :boohoo :boohoo :boohoo :Love_Icon

[cava]

I'm so sorry she is so sick. Poor thing isn't using the only avenue for calories. Do you think antibiotics and meds on that empty stomach is compounding the problem? Have you tried yogurt, it might coat things and relieve discomfort...Just an idea.

[TubeDriver]

:grouphug

[lukaslolamaus]

Sending prayers your way :grouphug:Love_Icon

[Scooterzmom]

:Love_Icon:grouphugSending love, prayers and positive vibes to you and your little one. :grouphug

[Mel1959]

:Love_Icon Seis :Love_Icon

[stosh2010]

We just returned from the vet. She used her microscope on 3 different magnifications, and searched the stool sample for 8 or 9 minutes. No worms (or parasites.)
Oh well--that's good -I guess. It's just that we are no closer to the WHY !!!
Why can't she eat and keep it down..

__________________________________________________ __________________________

This is the reality of SEIS's weight loss:
Mar 5 ...583 gr.
Apr. 5... 484 gr.

a loss of 99 grams in a month.
__________________________________________________ _____
Our options are running thin. If she continues on this daily loss...we will need to do "something"


901

[cava]

You guys have been hit hard, one right after the other. I know you'll know when it's time. I really hope she turns around. In the meantime, make her comfortable, limit the stress and things she hates, put out a buffet and hope for the best.

What did the vet say about her sinus and breathing issues? I think she's sick systemically and that's what's causing the vomiting and anorexia. Did they do any other tests, blood work?

[stosh2010]

You guys have been hit hard, one right after the other. I know you'll know when it's time. I really hope she turns around. In the meantime, make her comfortable, limit the stress and things she hates, put out a buffet and hope for the best.

What did the vet say about her sinus and breathing issues? I think she's sick systemically and that's what's causing the vomiting and anorexia. Did they do any other tests, blood work?

Our vet (bless her heart) has zero experience with very small mammals.
Our squirrel visits ( starting with the Dude in Sept.2016), are her only exposure to squirrels. She learns a little more about them each time we go there.--So she has little to add regarding odontoma and it's internal effects.

[RamaMama]

Seis did not bring up near as much slime this afternoon as the days prior.........
only a little in comparison.

I have been giving her the "shake mix" .... it does not amount to much, maybe 11 cc, but it is
more than she would have gotten if left on her own. I started with only 2 cc.... at first she got
sick again bringing up a little mucus.
Steamed her.
Gave her more 'shake' off and on through the day slowly building up the cc to see how she would
react..... she has not gagged and brought up more mucus as of this post. A few little coughs maybe.

She continues to struggle as far as breathing and even giving her the liquid 'shake"
I have to give only a little at a time so she can take breaths...... but her breathing isn't
as HEAVY labored. She breathes fast and rather shallow........ not like her breathing of the
past weeks of heavy and hard.
Not sure what or why unless it is because some or a lot of the mucus that was stuffing her sinus
is gone. { ? ? ? } We do not know. We do know she still has a breathing issue........
{ Odontoma ? } Most likely.
If her breathing continues as it is......... not a good thing. She can't live like that.

Will see what tomorrow brings.
:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[TubeDriver]

Try adding a pinch of probiotic to her shake. It might help her stomach/GI health.

[RamaMama]

Can a squirrel have really bad Odontoma and have their incisors grow back in ?

[TubeDriver]

I am not 100% sure but I think yes. The odontoma does not mean that there is NO normal tooth growth (although sometimes there might not be), in this case you might have some normal tooth growth and at the same time the odontoma is also growing (but inwards). Again, I am not 100% sure about this but this is what I think can happen. But I do think it is a good thing if her teeth are starting to grow back, perhaps that might slow the growth of the odontoma? Again, this is really just an educated guess at best.




Can a squirrel have really bad Odontoma and have their incisors grow back in ?

[Chickenlegs]

I just wonder if laser treatment could help our sweethearts with odontoma? OK I know NOTHING about this sort of stuff but an odontoma is a bony structure that grows on the back end of damaged teeth, right? Could a laser cauterize the growth end on the backside and prevent the growth that kills out darlings if unchecked? Just thinking here. Gets me in trouble all the time.

[stosh2010]

I just wonder if laser treatment could help our sweethearts with odontoma? OK I know NOTHING about this sort of stuff but an odontoma is a bony structure that grows on the back end of damaged teeth, right? Could a laser cauterize the growth end on the backside and prevent the growth that kills out darlings if unchecked? Just thinking here. Gets me in trouble all the time.

Laser treatment. ??...I can't even get an X-ray in my area.

[stosh2010]

WE are trying everything we can think of to help our beautiful little girl.
She used to be our CHUNK-A-MUNK...because she was a full figured girl.
Now...we feel her spine and ribs.

WE tented and steamed her a few time s today...then at night we put a VICKs "aroma" bottle in her nest box to try and keep her nose clear.
300376300377




018

[Chickenlegs]

Stosh and Rosie, your sweethearts are SO lucky to have you. :Love_Icon

[stosh2010]

Stosh and Rosie, your sweethearts are SO lucky to have you. :Love_Icon

and yet-----------------------we can't save them...................

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________

SEIS is Gone.
Her struggle to breathe easily-and completely-
Is OVER.
Our Chunk-A-Munk has faded right before our eyes.
A mere matter of weeks.
To hold her (which we did several times daily)
Revealed her ribs and spine under our fingers.
Not the memory that we wanted to be her legacy.
But—there is no more pain, struggle, or fight.
Just Calm….& Peace.
You deserve that, and much more.
Her box is ready. Unlike the Dude whose box was prepared 16 months ago.
Seis’s condition deteriorated so rapidly that only 3 weeks ago did I start cutting wood.
It has been a painful and sad month, here, for the Costa Rican Crew.
Cages rolled outside for cleaning and storage,
Leaving huge voids in the normal living room squirrel cage locations.
The room-NOW-appears huge.
Our Sweet, Sweet Girl.
It’s like being awake in a terrible Nightmare.
Making breakfast is rapidly changing,
2 less plates, and 2 less portions to prepare.
( all in less than 2 weeks )
SEIS, the Dude is waiting for you.
You can be a Chunk-A-Munk---AGAIN.
SEIS,
Your Mom & Dad will miss you
FOR…………EVER.


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063

[Nancy in New York]

So heart wrenchingly sad.
:Love_Icon Seis :Love_Icon Rosie :Love_Icon stosh

Rest in Peace
Beautiful Seis 300434

[island rehabber]

:Cry Seis :Cry

[Toddy]

:boohoo:boohoo
I'm so very sorry...

[cava]

Oh Stosh and Rosie, my thoughts are with you and Seis as she makes her journey:Love_Icon

[lukaslolamaus]

:grouphugRamaMama & Stosh:grouphug
I'm so heartbroken for the both of you :boohoo
Rest peacefully sweet, beautiful :Love_IconSeis:Love_Icon:sad

[Chickenlegs]

I’m so sorry. Your beautiful girl is at peace. Nothing hurts. She can breath. There’s no fix for the holes in your hearts but there is family here to share your sorrow and mourn with you. Sweet sleep beautiful Seis :Love_Icon

[BCChins]

Rosie and Stosh I am so sorry for your loss of Seis. She is resting easy now and Dude taking care of her now. :hug

[Scooterzmom]

All night I've been thinking of you 2 and your beautiful girl. I am so very very sorry for your loss. Seis is at peace now. She has an angel waiting for her, one she knows well among all others. I can't even imagine the pain you must be going through. The huge hole in your heart cannot be repared, I know, but I do hope that you can find some comfort in knowing that in the afterlife they now have each other and how they must be chatting about how their mom and dad took care of them, and how much they love you still.

Be at peace, sweet little girl. Go with the angels and know that the angels who cared so much for you in this life will never forget you. Go be with all your friends and tell everyone how much we love you all.

:grouphug:Love_Icon Stosh & Rosie :Love_Icon:grouphug

[kathy291]

I am so sorry Stosh and Rama mama. I too lost a beloved pet this week and know what you mean about the change in your lives when you lose them. What you have gone through these past couple of weeks is heartbreaking.

Sleep sweet Cruiser Dude, Seis, and my sweet baby Girlie.

[TubeDriver]

I just got home and checked in to this. :( Hits like a punch in the stomach so I can only imagine how hard this is for you both.:grouphug

Stosh and Rosie, you gave Seis a life filled with love and light. There is nothing I can think to say now other than that you have been chosen for this because your hearts are big enough to endure.

Godspeed Chunk-a-Munk Seis.

:grouphug:grouphug:grouphug

[Shewhosweptforest]

:shakehead Oh no Stosh and Rosie....this is so incredibly unfair :boohoo I know you both are in sooo much pain...unlike your babies...they are free :please but that does not help you in your pain and disbelief:dono I've been off the board and I did not realize Seis was soo ill :boohoo I still remember when you found her...her nose was bloody...but she landed into safety and love. Maybe that initial injury is what caused all her trouble. I really loved watching her grow and flourish...and now I cry as we share her loss...life can be so hard...love so heavy. I feel your pain all the way up here....and it's unbearable :shakehead please remember we're here with you :grouphug:Love_Icon

[Mel1959]

I’m so sorry you lost your precious Seis. :Love_Icon It has been a hard month and it will take a lot of time to heal your broken hearts. :hug. We are here for you when you need someone. :grouphug

[SammysMom]

Godspeed precious Seis with the beautiful face...:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

Rosie and Stosh, I just don't have the words to convey the sorrow at reading of Seis's passing. She was one of my favorites on TSB and she was far too young for this to have happened... I pray that you know how much you gave her by giving her the life of love that she lived. :grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[stosh2010]

:shakehead Oh no Stosh and Rosie....this is so incredibly unfair :boohoo I know you both are in sooo much pain...unlike your babies...they are free :please but that does not help you in your pain and disbelief:dono I've been off the board and I did not realize Seis was soo ill :boohoo I still remember when you found her...her nose was bloody...but she landed into safety and love. Maybe that initial injury is what caused all her trouble. I really loved watching her grow and flourish...and now I cry as we share her loss...life can be so hard...love so heavy. I feel your pain all the way up here....and it's unbearable :shakehead please remember we're here with you :grouphug:Love_Icon
I do as well..I remember the chair I was sitting in--I remember gently dabbing at her blood encrusted nose--I remember the thrill when I finally got that beautiful face totally cleaned and her nose un plugged,,,,
I saw for the first time:
SEIS, SEIS, with the BEAUTIFUL FACE................





This was the third day--with us.....and I finally got a good look.....
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201

[stosh2010]

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?39784-SEIS-And-Then-There-Were-6/page70
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________

If you have not read it yet...Our SEIS has passed. She fought hard but -now- is no longer in pain.
If you wish to make a POST--(Please do, we appreciate your thoughts) we request that you click the link above...
and post on her ORIGINAL thread.
We don't want to return to her "sick" thread ...as she is no longer suffering--from ANYTHING.
WE love you--T.S.B.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________

[RamaMama]

I am lurking {rarely} Have read all comments and expressions of love, prayers, compassion, and tears
but I do not stay on TSB nor the Treads for Dude and Seis.
As soon as I start to read what so many express in their kindness I start bawling so I have read a little
now and then.
I keep wondering ".... did I miss something that would have helped/cured...." I do not know, I will never
know, so I keep working at 'self talk' ".... let it go.... let it go.... " What happened happened. I was "told"
two years back ".... two will leave...." So now the worry and wondering is done. Need to move forward
in love past, love present, and all the love to come.

But I am not ready yet to read a lot
So I will not be on here much for awhile, just a little while longer.

Sending Love and Blessings back to each of our TSB Family.
RamaMama and Seis's and Dude's