Rodent blocks for a main diet

[ilovemyroscoe91]

I want to try a rodent block but I'm not sure which is the best, or which is recommended for a 2-3 yr old eastern grey squirrel.
I have HHB adult formula, and I give him 2 a day. But I'm reading that its really only a supplement and he needs rodent block for his main diet.
I was looking at the Oxbow garden select rat blocks.https://www.chewy.com/oxbow-garden-select-adult-rat-food/dp/145151?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=f&utm_content=Oxbow&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzrTUBRCnARIsAL0mqcznGwLD2ih4bgN9vthh BReZGn1c0YoKsVjw-vVWUbvcanc9PbsCekgaAiZEEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds But if any one has any suggestions, please I'm all ears!

[ilovemyroscoe91]

Oh and one more thing, what are the rules with the deer antlers? Like do they need to be sterylized or washed? Or can I just give it to him natural?

[Mel1959]

I didn’t sterilize the antlers when I gave them to my guys. I’m not sure what others do.

The Garden Select block you’re talking about isn’t corn based, which is good. I just bought some but haven’t used them yet. I don’t know how tasty they are. With an older squirrel you might have a difficult time getting him to take any of them straight from the bag. You might have to grind them up to a powder and mix them with baby food (veggie, fruit or combo) and some coconut oil and make them into balls. There are a lot of recipes for boo balls in the nutrition section.

I have had the best luck with my guys eating Harlan Teklad block. I think it tastes a little better. You can purchase small quantities of it online so you could give it a try.

[Diggie's Friend]

Wild harvested untreated only. Use a hacksaw with a unused blade to cut them into cross sections no bigger than a walnut. Theh appeals to squirrels to be able to hold them in their paws and gnaw on them like they do nuts.

I read somewhere about some infection antlers can have, but never had that issue thankfully. Preboiling and cooling them of course wouldn't hurt any; it gets into the nooks and cranies to sterlize the outside.

Place the cross sectioned pieces into a plastic microwave safe container with a lid, preferably one with some venting, just incase the pieces crack, and boil them in the container in the microwave, that way you get the inside and the outside sterlized as much as can be done. Get the deer antler pieces, not Elk, as the elk sources have sharp edges. Make cross sections, not long sections, with a hacksaw using a new blade.

[ilovemyroscoe91]

I didn’t sterilize the antlers when I gave them to my guys. I’m not sure what others do.

The Garden Select block you’re talking about isn’t corn based, which is good. I just bought some but haven’t used them yet. I don’t know how tasty they are. With an older squirrel you might have a difficult time getting him to take any of them straight from the bag. You might have to grind them up to a powder and mix them with baby food (veggie, fruit or combo) and some coconut oil and make them into balls. There are a lot of recipes for boo balls in the nutrition section.

I have had the best luck with my guys eating Harlan Teklad block. I think it tastes a little better. You can purchase small quantities of it online so you could give it a try.

How do you grind them up? And do you have any links to the Harlan, it seems there's a bunch of diff kinds.
Oh and I read something about grinding egg shells into powder and adding it to their food? Is that actually safe?
Thank you so much!

[ilovemyroscoe91]

Wild harvested untreated only. Use a hacksaw with a unused blade to cut them into cross sections no bigger than a walnut. Theh appeals to squirrels to be able to hold them in their paws and gnaw on them like they do nuts.

I read somewhere about some infection antlers can have, but never had that issue thankfully. Preboiling and cooling them of course wouldn't hurt any; it gets into the nooks and cranies to sterlize the outside.

Place the cross sectioned pieces into a plastic microwave safe container with a lid, preferably one with some venting, just incase the pieces crack, and boil them in the container in the microwave, that way you get the inside and the outside sterlized as much as can be done. Get the deer antler pieces, not Elk, as the elk sources have sharp edges. Make cross sections, not long sections, with a hacksaw using a new blade.

I'm not sure if we have a hack saw with an unused blade, or even a hack saw in general. Could I buy them already cut up that small?
Thanks!

[Diggie's Friend]

Not likely, as most are long sections, or long sliced sections, but not short ones. You will need a vice to hold the piece of antler in place to saw it. The blade is a separate purchase from a new saw with blade. Ask a kind neighbor cut them up for you.

Not all Pet stores carry these so call around to save time on the road looking for them. Ask if they are untreated. Do not buy them at a craft store or on Ebay, as you don't have anyway to know if they were treated or not.

Sorry for the repeat, didn't finish my edit.

[Diggie's Friend]

There are small and large hacksaws so there are shorter and longer blades to match. You likely can handle a smaller saw. Begin by securing it in the vice, and then making a few passes in one direction to score the surface. Once you have a channel then take your time sawing, making longer strokes that work better than short ones. Keep your other hand well away from the blade.

This thread says to boil them for 4 hours. I would look up antlers in the advanced search to see what others have written on this also.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?54448-Sterilize-deer-and-elk-anther-Heat-or-boiling&p=1169674#post1169674

[ilovemyroscoe91]

Awesome! Thank you so much! I actually know someone who hunts and has quite a few antlers that are natural and untreated. But I just didn't know about the cutting them up part. I mean I'm sure I know people with saws but they're probably not new blades.

[Nancy in New York]

I want to try a rodent block but I'm not sure which is the best, or which is recommended for a 2-3 yr old eastern grey squirrel.
I have HHB adult formula, and I give him 2 a day. But I'm reading that its really only a supplement and he needs rodent block for his main diet.
I was looking at the Oxbow garden select rat blocks.https://www.chewy.com/oxbow-garden-select-adult-rat-food/dp/145151?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=f&utm_content=Oxbow&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzrTUBRCnARIsAL0mqcznGwLD2ih4bgN9vthh BReZGn1c0YoKsVjw-vVWUbvcanc9PbsCekgaAiZEEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds But if any one has any suggestions, please I'm all ears!

I've been on this board for 10 years, and lately I've been reading the rodent block should be the main diet.
My thought was you could feed 2 HHB's daily along with the healthy foods on the pyramid, OR a handful of rodent blocks along with the healthy
foods on the pyramid, but not both.

Again I reached out to Leigh for clarification, as it was always my understanding that two HHB's along with healthy foods
from the pyramid is all that's needed.

As always Leigh got back to me promptly and with her permission I am posting this here.
FYI I underlined the really important parts, so this information isn't lost. :)

I hope for anyone else who's also confused that this brings some clarity.


Two Henry's Healthy Blocks per day provide 100% complete nutrition, including all necessary vitamins, minerals, and protein. There is no need to feed commercial rodent blocks as well. In fact, we don't recommend it.

The difference between a "complete diet" and a "supplement"

Most pet foods, like commercial rodent blocks, dog kibbles, or cat chow, are meant to be the whole diet. You can feed your pet nothing but this food (plus a few treats) and your pet will get all the nutrition they need.

Squirrels aren't like dogs, cats, or even rats; they are picky! And they also like a lot of variety. That's why the Healthy Diet for Pet Squirrels consists mostly of healthy veggies and wild foods (plus limited treats), with HHB's providing the vitamins/minerals/protein in a concentrated form (just 2 blocks per day). The HHB's provide the core nutrition, and the veggies provide the "bulk" of the diet. Together, they make a nutritionally complete but more interesting and varied diet.

(We also feel this is probably a healthier diet for a squirrel because it contains so many fresh foods. Commercial pet foods like the ones mentioned above are sometimes called a "dead diet" because they are 100% processed.)

In summary: 2 HHB's + healthy veggies/wild foods/limited treats = a 100% nutritionally complete and balanced diet. There is absolutely no need to feed commercial rodent blocks as well. In fact, by doing that you are putting a lot of unhealthy ingredients (preservatives, soy, corn, low-quality fillers, etc.) right back into your squirrel's diet!

[cava]

Nancy, thank you for the above information...

I have a question about it. Is this information mainly meant for pet squirrels? Many of us cannot afford Henry's for numerous overwinters or short term boarders. While I understand this diet may be considered "best" can you or Leigh speak to those of us who due to financial constraints are feeding a rodent block with veggies/outdoor vegetation for the short term?

(Reading the above info gave me the impression I am harming my overwinters by using rodent block and making boo balls with them, which I would never want to do.)
Thank you.

[stepnstone]

I've been on this board for 10 years, and lately I've been reading the rodent block should be the main diet.
My thought was you could feed 2 HHB's daily along with the healthy foods on the pyramid, OR a handful of rodent blocks along with the healthy foods on the pyramid, but not both.
Again I reached out to Leigh for clarification, as it was always my understanding that two HHB's along with healthy foods
from the pyramid is all that's needed.
As always Leigh got back to me promptly and with her permission I am posting this here.
FYI I underlined the really important parts, so this information isn't lost. :)
I hope for anyone else who's also confused that this brings some clarity.
Two Henry's Healthy Blocks per day provide 100% complete nutrition, including all necessary vitamins, minerals, and protein. There is no need to feed commercial rodent blocks as well. In fact, we don't recommend it.

The difference between a "complete diet" and a "supplement"
Most pet foods, like commercial rodent blocks, dog kibbles, or cat chow, are meant to be the whole diet. You can feed your pet nothing but this food (plus a few treats) and your pet will get all the nutrition they need.
Squirrels aren't like dogs, cats, or even rats; they are picky! And they also like a lot of variety. That's why the Healthy Diet for Pet Squirrels consists mostly of healthy veggies and wild foods (plus limited treats), with HHB's providing the vitamins/minerals/protein in a concentrated form (just 2 blocks per day). The HHB's provide the core nutrition, and the veggies provide the "bulk" of the diet. Together, they make a nutritionally complete but more interesting and varied diet.
(We also feel this is probably a healthier diet for a squirrel because it contains so many fresh foods. Commercial pet foods like the ones mentioned above are sometimes called a "dead diet" because they are 100% processed.)
In summary: 2 HHB's + healthy veggies/wild foods/limited treats = a 100% nutritionally complete and balanced diet. There is absolutely no need to feed commercial rodent blocks as well. In fact, by doing that you are putting a lot of unhealthy ingredients (preservatives, soy, corn, low-quality fillers, etc.) right back into your squirrel's diet!

Thank you for the above posting Nancy!
It makes my head hurt every time I read something like this....


I have HHB adult formula, and I give him 2 a day. But I'm reading that its really only a supplement and he needs rodent block for his main

Misinformation has been pretty rampant in our forums of late... How anyone can push a commercial block manufactured for varying critters that's also been sitting around in warehouses before hitting the shelves and suggesting that is a primary block over a fresh produced block (HHB"s) designed pacifically for squirrels and their daily nutritional requirements is just beyond comprehension. IMO!

[cava]

Thank you for the above posting Nancy!
It makes my head hurt every time I read something like this....



Misinformation has been pretty rampant in our forums of late... How anyone can push a commercial block manufactured for varying critters that's also been sitting around in warehouses before hitting the shelves and suggesting that is a primary block over a fresh produced block (HHB"s) designed pacifically for squirrels and their daily nutritional requirements is just beyond comprehension. IMO!

I am so confused, you guys. Since I got on this board in 2016 it has been hammered into numerous threads that a rodent block IS A MUST and I understood that HHB's were the same as feeding commercial rodent block. Then the new information was that HHB's were supplements and that a commercial rodent block should be available at all times. Now it sounds like using commercial rodent block is a BAD thing and only HHB's are acceptable???



So can the board take a final stance on WHAT EXACTLY YOU ARE TELLING FOLKS HERE. Is this a pro-Henry's blocks only site or what is happening here?

Edit: I'm not trying to be argumentative at all. I JUST told someone they should use commercial rodent blocks in another thread because that's what I was told to do when I joined the site and what's always been told to all of us.

[Nancy in New York]

Nancy, thank you for the above information...

I have a question about it. Is this information mainly meant for pet squirrels? Many of us cannot afford Henry's for numerous overwinters or short term boarders. While I understand this diet may be considered "best" can you or Leigh speak to those of us who due to financial constraints are feeding a rodent block with veggies/outdoor vegetation for the short term?

(Reading the above info gave me the impression I am harming my overwinters by using rodent block and making boo balls with them, which I would never want to do.)
Thank you.

From my understanding, if you are going to feed block, which you should,
the best option is HHB's along with the healthy diet.
BUT
You can also feed commercial block but it will take a small handful of those to "equal"
the 2 HHB's. (along with healthy veggies as well)
I think a lot of people are reading those other threads that
claim you need regular rodent block in addition to Henry's.
Not true.

Does this answer your questioin? :)
I KNOW that Leigh is more than willing to answer any questions anyone has.
Sometimes it may take her a little longer, as she is busy, but if you ask she
will definitely answer. :w00t

[cava]

Yes, defining quantity for quantity answers my question. Thank you.

[Nancy in New York]

I am so confused, you guys. Since I got on this board in 2016 it has been hammered into numerous threads that a rodent block IS A MUST and I understood that HHB's were the same as feeding commercial rodent block. Then the new information was that HHB's were supplements and that a commercial rodent block should be available at all times. Now it sounds like using commercial rodent block is a BAD thing and only HHB's are acceptable???



So can the board take a final stance on WHAT EXACTLY YOU ARE TELLING FOLKS HERE. Is this a pro-Henry's blocks only site or what is happening here?

Edit: I'm not trying to be argumentative at all. I JUST told someone they should use commercial rodent blocks in another thread because that's what I was told to do when I joined the site and what's always been told to all of us.

See on the pyramid how Leigh writes squirrel blocks ORrodent block.
She isn't advocating only HHB's she is advocating block, whether commercial OR HHB's
When I suggest block it's typically HHB's, ONLY because it's the one block that mine will actually eat. :)

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WBwrFLT/0/98b5eed6/O/i-WBwrFLT.jpg

[island rehabber]

The confusion may have started when a veterinarian whom most of us revere to the highest point of Heaven declared that "75% of a squirrel's diet should be quality rodent block." This vet does NOT like HHB's. (Yeah, there I said it. I don't agree with her but that's how it went down.)

So...people figured if HHB's are good and 75% rodent block is good, then both together must be fantastic, right?
I was one of those people, although I have NEVER gotten any baby squirrel to live on 75% rodent block after weaning....maybe 25 % at best.

So here's my take:

IF you have less than five squirrels at your home and can feed HHB's faithfully along with healthy veggies, DO IT.
IF you have more than five squirrels at home, but have the resources ($$$) to feed HHB's faithfully along with healthy veggies, DO IT.

IF you are a high-volume rehabber with more than 10 squirrels at home and have the resources ($$$) to feed HHB's along with healthy veggies for four months until release, God bless you, and you should do it.

IF you are a high-volume rehabber with 10-30 squirrels at home and can't afford HHB's nowhere nohow, you should try to make as much of your squirrels' diet RODENT BLOCK as you possibly can.

Does that make sense?

[SophieSquirrel]

In summary: 2 HHB's + healthy veggies/wild foods/limited treats = a 100% nutritionally complete and balanced diet. There is absolutely no need to feed commercial rodent blocks as well. In fact, by doing that you are putting a lot of unhealthy ingredients (preservatives, soy, corn, low-quality fillers, etc.) right back into your squirrel's diet!

I have a lot of respect for Leigh and absolutely recommend her blocks although I would to see a finer grind on the Pecans so the flavor is distributed better in the Adult Blocks. In the wild they eat a LOT of acorns which have carbs/calories/protein as well as, hickory nuts, black walnuts, beechnuts, berries, mushrooms, pine nuts, dogwood, wild cherry and black gum fruits. They also eat buds in the spring which is high energy as well as red maple wings, insects, grubs and get they plenty of sunlight.

It is extremely hard to replicate a Gray's/Fox's diet in captivity. With that being said HHB's are by far the best quality (ingredients) block out there along with the healthy diet pyramid. As I said in the wild the squirrels diets are varied and the HHB's + the pyramid is a varied healthy diet. However limiting to 2 blocks a day is not a good idea IMO because the squirrel will decide how much it needs in the way of carbs/cals/protein by eating foods rich in them. The pyramid part (not including the nuts) is essentially a big salad. If we do a lot of nuts as the protein/carb/calorie base we all know where that leads. Since a squirrel (and all rodents) are continuously foraging/eating and (and pooping) I do not think they should be fed like dogs with "mealtimes". Now if Leigh is stating "only 2 blocks" a day b/c they have too much calcium and they are too rich to eat more that is one thing. If not I think any base carb/calorie/ protein food should be on demand so the squirrel can eat when they want to. I don't leave the triangle foods like wet fruits/veggies in all day and I certainly don't put a bowl of nuts in. Therefore IMO a block should be the on-demand forage food. Gena Seaburg the top rodent nutritionist in the country agrees and this also applies to foragers like Prairie Dogs, Degus, Chins care where Hay (the base diet) must be available at all times and the higher protein supplement pellets & tubers/veggies are the supplement.

I don't want to fill in the squirrels hunger gap with romaine lettuce, broccoli and certainly not a bowl of nuts. This is why I use the Teklad and it's always in their bowls. Is it ideal? Probably not. Even if I wanted to leave a bowl of HHB's available at all times to fill their "endless rodent hunger" I could not afford it for 8 squirrels. My sqrls get a lot of exercise and calorie burn time and I can see all of them easily eating 5 HHB's a day. If any of you go to Celebration you will see my squirrels are not fat.

I think those with questions about feeding HHB's only should have a long talk with Dr. Emerson. I prefer to as well rounded a diet as possible and my choice is Teklad on demand , 2 HHB's along with the triangle. Perhaps Mel1959 might like to chime in on this one as she has also discussed this with Dr. E.

I don't think the Teklad negates all the good you have done by feeding the better HHB's, that's like saying because you have an ice cream cone for dessert it undid all the good from your healthy dinner. Yes corn has to go. We need a QUALITY dry, non-perishable block that is COST EFFECTIVE for the rehabber and private sqrl holder alike. Diggie's Friend is (hopefully) going to consult with Dr. Seaburg about a squirrel formulated diet. Perhaps Leigh can produce an extruded dry block at a good price once a perfect formulation is agreed upon. Seaburg is the best in the US IMO.

Also I don't think the "OR" on the triangle means bad heath if you mix the two. Doing both for me keeps the cost down and adds the extra squirrel specific supplements in the HHB's. Any thoughts on my logic?

On another note here is an excellent article by the bird people about food dyes and cancer etc.

http://www.africangreys.com/articles/nutrition/chemical.htm

[dextersmom]

According to Henrys the key words are: "either or" So depending on your financial situation you can make your choice..

[stepnstone]

I am so confused, you guys. Since I got on this board in 2016 it has been hammered into numerous threads that a rodent block IS A MUST
It is the most essential part of a captive squirrels diet! There may be a few that will argue that but regardless of type block feeding a substantial block has always been this boards recommendation.

and I understood that HHB's were the same as feeding commercial rodent block.
Commercial rodent block is adequate, it just takes more of them to compare to the nutritional balance of hhb's, I personally couldn't call them the "same."

Then the new information was that HHB's were supplements and that a commercial rodent block should be available at all times.
This is what I refer to as "misinformation" IMO.

Now it sounds like using commercial rodent block is a BAD thing and only HHB's are acceptable???
So can the board take a final stance on WHAT EXACTLY YOU ARE TELLING FOLKS HERE. Is this a pro-Henry's blocks only site or what is happening here?
"suggesting that is a primary block over a fresh produced block (HHB"s) designed pacifically for squirrels and their daily nutritional requirements is just beyond comprehension. IMO!"
Didn't say commercial block was a bad thing! I just can't comprehend how a block sitting on a shelf could be held higher then a fresh block that has been formulated specifically for squirrels.

So can the board take a final stance on WHAT EXACTLY YOU ARE TELLING FOLKS HERE. Is this a pro-Henry's blocks only site or what is happening here?
In reference to block personally I am "pro-Henry's" however...
I don't speak for "the board!" Which btw is the purpose of (IMO) In my opinion!

[ilovemyroscoe91]

It does sound good to have both on hand, and use the HHB for the 2 per day supplement and then a rodent block for the all day main diet. My squirrel always seems like he's starving, but since he's a little over weight I only feed him veges in between his 2 HHB. It just doesn't feel like it's really filling him, so when I read somewhere on here that he needs the Rodent blocks as well throughout the day, it just seemed like a good idea.

But now I don't know what to do!!! I'm so confused!!!

I really really appreciate everyone's output on the situation, I just don't want to do anything wrong.

I haven't placed my order yet I was waiting on some more info, so everything is still sitting in the shopping cart. A couple bags of HHB and then I picked out a bag of Oxbow Garden Selects Adult Rat rodent block..
So should I order this? Lol I'm so confused

[Mel1959]

I have a lot of respect for Leigh and absolutely recommend her blocks although I would to see a finer grind on the Pecans so the flavor is distributed better in the Adult Blocks. In the wild they eat a LOT of acorns which have carbs/calories/protein as well as, hickory nuts, black walnuts, beechnuts, berries, mushrooms, pine nuts, dogwood, wild cherry and black gum fruits. They also eat buds in the spring which is high energy as well as red maple wings, insects, grubs and get they plenty of sunlight.

It is extremely hard to replicate a Gray's/Fox's diet in captivity. With that being said HHB's are by far the best quality (ingredients) block out there along with the healthy diet pyramid. As I said in the wild the squirrels diets are varied and the HHB's + the pyramid is a varied healthy diet. However limiting to 2 blocks a day is not a good idea IMO because the squirrel will decide how much it needs in the way of carbs/cals/protein by eating foods rich in them. The pyramid part (not including the nuts) is essentially a big salad. If we do a lot of nuts as the protein/carb/calorie base we all know where that leads. Since a squirrel (and all rodents) are continuously foraging/eating and (and pooping) I do not think they should be fed like dogs with "mealtimes". Now if Leigh is stating "only 2 blocks" a day b/c they have too much calcium and they are too rich to eat more that is one thing. If not I think any base carb/calorie/ protein food should be on demand so the squirrel can eat when they want to. I don't leave the triangle foods like wet fruits/veggies in all day and I certainly don't put a bowl of nuts in. Therefore IMO a block should be the on-demand forage food. Gena Seaburg the top rodent nutritionist in the country agrees and this also applies to foragers like Prairie Dogs, Degus, Chins care where Hay (the base diet) must be available at all times and the higher protein supplement pellets & tubers/veggies are the supplement.

I don't want to fill in the squirrels hunger gap with romaine lettuce, broccoli and certainly not a bowl of nuts. This is why I use the Teklad and it's always in their bowls. Is it ideal? Probably not. Even if I wanted to leave a bowl of HHB's available at all times to fill their "endless rodent hunger" I could not afford it for 8 squirrels. My sqrls get a lot of exercise and calorie burn time and I can see all of them easily eating 5 HHB's a day. If any of you go to Celebration you will see my squirrels are not fat.

I think those with questions about feeding HHB's only should have a long talk with Dr. Emerson. I prefer to as well rounded a diet as possible and my choice is Teklad on demand , 2 HHB's along with the triangle. Perhaps Mel1959 might like to chime in on this one as she has also discussed this with Dr. E.

I don't think the Teklad negates all the good you have done by feeding the better HHB's, that's like saying because you have an ice cream cone for dessert it undid all the good from your healthy dinner. Yes corn has to go. We need a QUALITY dry, non-perishable block that is COST EFFECTIVE for the rehabber and private sqrl holder alike. Diggie's Friend is (hopefully) going to consult with Dr. Seaburg about a squirrel formulated diet. Perhaps Leigh can produce an extruded dry block at a good price once a perfect formulation is agreed upon. Seaburg is the best in the US IMO.

Also I don't think the "OR" on the triangle means bad heath if you mix the two. Doing both for me keeps the cost down and adds the extra squirrel specific supplements in the HHB's. Any thoughts on my logic?

On another note here is an excellent article by the bird people about food dyes and cancer etc.

http://www.africangreys.com/articles/nutrition/chemical.htm


I have to agree with everything that SS has said. I have had the diet discussion multiple times with Dr. E. She bases her stance for rodent block on the overall health of the squirrels she has seen in her practice.

I apologize if I am responsible for any of the confusion that members might be experiencing regarding Harlan (or any other rodent block). I have listened to several of Dr. E’s lectures and had many conversations with her and wanted to share on this forum what I had learned. That’s all. I don’t have stock in Harlan or Henry’s. I am doing what I think makes the most sense, which is to free feed Harlan block in the form of boo balls, offer 1 or 2 HHB’s a day as well as healthy veggies and fruits. My indoor squirrels rarely get nuts.

For those that are concerned about the corn in the Harlan (and other) blocks, there is a new Oxbow block that is called Garden Select. It is in a nugget shape and the base components are Oat and Barley, no corn. I have not ground it for boo balls yet, but I did put some in May’s cage and she has nibbled on it. :grin2

[SophieSquirrel]

"So can the board take a final stance on WHAT EXACTLY YOU ARE TELLING FOLKS HERE. Is this a pro-Henry's blocks only site or what is happening here"?

Being new and not admin I have no say in the "board" but my personal stance is why does it have to be "A" or "B" when it comes to blocks. Seems like the same mentality ingrained in politics which is why I ALWAYS vote for "C" (b/c in that case both A&B are bad). In this case I think we would all agree that HHB's are good for sqrls, but they are not a magic pill and are just part of the total diet equation. I think we would all agree that Teklad/Mazuri/Oxbow/Zupreem are not ideal with the fillers/corn/soy etc, but are way better then a diet of just nuts. So with all that being said what is wrong with a bowl of Teklad (one of the better blocks) + the 2 HHB's daily + the triangle? My sqrls certainly don't gorge themselves on Teklad nibbling throughout the day yet still eat their HHB's + select items from the triangle. To date HHB's IMO is the best block formulated for sqrls and the "supplement" idea comes from the added necessary calcium/magnesium etc contained that may not be sufficient in Teklad Mazuri etc. The Teklad also has many necessary elements and "fills" their constant rodent appetite without gorging on "salad & nuts". I have not had MBD or short lives on Teklad / Mazuri. Even Karen Clark had 9-10 YO squirrels on Zupreem Fruitblend. Try that with a diet consisting of walnuts, pecans, peanuts, human foods for an NR and you will be lucky if your squirrel survives a year without MBD.

IMO....

[SophieSquirrel]

It does sound good to have both on hand, and use the HHB for the 2 per day supplement and then a rodent block for the all day main diet. My squirrel always seems like he's starving, but since he's a little over weight I only feed him veges in between his 2 HHB. It just doesn't feel like it's really filling him, so when I read somewhere on here that he needs the Rodent blocks as well throughout the day, it just seemed like a good idea. A couple bags of HHB and then I picked out a bag of Oxbow Garden Selects Adult Rat rodent block. So should I order this? Lol I'm so confused

I am not sure about the Oxbow Garden Select b/c it contains orchard grass (amount unknown). Look at the Oxbow Essentials Adult Rat if you can't get Teklad 2016 or Mazuri Rodent. Essentials does not contain hay or alfalfa. I moderate my rodent blocks if one seems to be gaining too much weight but my HHB's and the triangle are consistent.

I think (hope) everyone is in agreement that "Nutsquares" or "Nutballs" are not good.

Any thoughts from other members on Garden Select vs Essentials Rat? Remember not everyone can get Teklad or Mazuri.

[cava]

In reference to block personally I am "pro-Henry's" however...
I don't speak for "the board!" Which btw is the purpose of (IMO) In my opinion!

It may seem unfair but senior members who are very respected kind of do speak for the board. Your input is valued and there are a handful of long time members who many new members look to for how to care for their squirrels.

I understand what IMO means. Many people here are doing their best to help an animal and don't have the education or training that a certified rehabber does so they are looking at you for information.

I get what you were saying about the difference between the two and why you personally choose HHBs. That being said I am always reading and doing my best to keep up with what's currently recommended. It just sounded an awfully lot like (In your opinion) if we weren't using HHBs then we were doing a disservice to squirrels in our care. (And your opinion matters) That's why I asked for clarification.

[ilovemyroscoe91]

I am not sure about the Oxbow Garden Select b/c it contains orchard grass (amount unknown). Look at the Oxbow Essentials Adult Rat if you can't get Teklad 2016 or Mazuri Rodent. Essentials does not contain hay or alfalfa. I moderate my rodent blocks if one seems to be gaining too much weight but my HHB's and the triangle are consistent.

I think (hope) everyone is in agreement that "Nutsquares" or "Nutballs" are not good.

Any thoughts from other members on Garden Select vs Essentials Rat? Remember not everyone can get Teklad or Mazuri.


Well I honestly don't know much about the rodent blocks, which is why I was asking.
So Teklad 2016 or mazuri? Do you think your could send me a link to a good one you would recommend.
I only said the Garden selects from just browsing, I didn't really read the ingredients to be honest. So alfalfa and hay type stuff is a no no?

And I would like to try the boo balls with the rodent block when I get it. How do you grind them up exactly?

[cava]

I put mine in a large zip lock bag and crush the with the bottom of a mug or thick jar, then roll the with a rolling pin to get the small enough to put into a food processor and grind them into the consistency of sand. But if you don't have a food processor, you could get them ground down by just doing it all in a freezer bag.

There are a lot of recipes on the site. I posted photos of how I make mine in the Main Street Foursome thread but lately I haven't been baking them. They like them just rolled into balls and soft now. Refrigerate them once you make them, or some people keep them in the freezer for freshness as well. Your choice.

[SophieSquirrel]

Well I honestly don't know much about the rodent blocks, which is why I was asking.
So Teklad 2016 or mazuri? Do you think your could send me a link to a good one you would recommend.
I only said the Garden selects from just browsing, I didn't really read the ingredients to be honest. So alfalfa and hay type stuff is a no no?

And I would like to try the boo balls with the rodent block when I get it. How do you grind them up exactly?

I know it's confusing and even squirrel "experts" can't agree on which block is best. We can agree on what is bad for the most part and Alfalfa and Hay in a block is not recommended. Perhaps someone here can recommend a site where you can buy a small bag of Teklad 2016 without having to buy the 33 Lb bag.

[Mel1959]

The cheapest place to buy Harlan block is on www.Weecompanions.com They only ship a couple of days a week, so plan accordingly. The difference in the number formulation is due to the amount of protein in the block, ie. 2016 has 16% protein and 2018 has 18% protein. I have been using Harlan Teklad 2018 for about a year now. When I added it to my dwarf squirrels diet there was a huge transformation in his hair and cognitive abilities. I have stuck with it since.

I grind Harlan block with my Ninja blender, then grind a variety of nuts for flavor (almonds, walnuts, pecans) but not too many. I then add some powdered Fox Valley 20/50 for the nutrients and a variety of veggie or veggie/fruit baby food. I add some liquified coconut oil to help bind it all together. I will say that I have had to resort to boo balls because the only squirrel I have in the house (besides my dwarf who doesn’t eat anything :grin3) is a squirrel I released who took a tumble and is back inside. Therefore, I was not able to be consistent with the straight Harlan block for her diet. Obviously, the straight block is easiest to offer.

There are lots of boo ball recipes in the Squirrel Nutrition section. Some folks bake them slightly, or feed them frozen. You have to do what works best for you and your squee.

[Loudhouse2]

I have been caring for my first set of squirrels since last August and am in no way an expert. I started giving them oxbow garden select adult rat food months ago because even with their hhb’s and veggies they we’re always hungry and I was told it was ok to give it to them. I personally haven’t had any problems with them while eating it. They are healthy and energetic. My local pet store only sells oxbow or kaytees, I chose the oxbow because I know corn isn’t good for them.

[cava]

You can buy different sized bags of HT2018 on Amazon by Nesom Distributing. From a 2 lb to a 20 lb bag.

[ilovemyroscoe91]

Perhaps someone here can recommend a site where you can buy a small bag of Teklad 2016 without having to buy the 33 Lb bag.

Yeah I looked for the Teklad 2016 and can't find it anywhere.

[ilovemyroscoe91]

Thank you so much everyone! I think I've decided to go ahead and do the 2 HHB along with the Rodent block throughout the day.
So how many times a day should I feed the block? And at what times? Should I start the morning with the block instead of HHB or give him both?

Also for the boo balls would any of this be any good to add to it (1st picture below) I bought it a while ago when I thought I was going to make my own blocks.

The 2nd picture is some of Bill Sells Nut square mix, I ordered it a while ago before I really did the research. So I never used it, I guess I want to know if it's any good to me, or should I throw it away.

[ilovemyroscoe91]

Now I got on the weecompanions Web site, and I'm reading the ingredients in the Teklad, it says corn. But I thought corn was a big no no in food for squirrels?

[Mel1959]

Corn by itself has an unfavorable calcium to phosphorous ratio. The block has calcium added to it. The corn is one of the concerns that has been raised about the healthiness of some rodent blocks. Oxbow Essentials rat food doesn’t have corn in it.

[stepnstone]

It may seem unfair but senior members who are very respected kind of do speak for the board. Your input is valued and there are a handful of long time members who many new members look to for how to care for their squirrels.
I understand what IMO means. Many people here are doing their best to help an animal and don't have the education or training that a certified rehabber does so they are looking at you for information.
I do not "speak for the board" when it comes to who's feeding what block, I'm expressing my opinion on block and which are being referred to as the "supplement" block indicating HHB's are the lessor of the many commercial block.
I do understand affordability or the lack of and where commercial block can be a suitable alternative for many. I simply can not understand how a commercial block manufactured for a variety of animals could be viewed better then one made specifically for squirrels.

I get what you were saying about the difference between the two and why you personally choose HHBs.
That difference was made apparent to me in my squirrels years back when I switched from a commercial block (Mazuri) to HHB's.

That being said I am always reading and doing my best to keep up with what's currently recommended. It just sounded an awfully lot like (In your opinion) if we weren't using HHBs then we were doing a disservice to squirrels in our care. (And your opinion matters) That's why I asked for clarification.
And this is your opinion, not mine! One would be doing a disservice to squirrels in their care if they were not feeding any type block that was actively being consumed. My personal preference is HHB's for the reasons stated and if my opinion matters and you were to read back on other forums I too have suggested recommended commercial block on this board... with pictures!

[island rehabber]

Corn by itself has an unfavorable calcium to phosphorous ratio. The block has calcium added to it. The corn is one of the concerns that has been raised about the healthiness of some rodent blocks. Oxbow Essentials rat food doesn’t have corn in it.

Oxbow is very high quality food that, thankfully, is often available in big box pet stores too. HOWEVER...and maybe because it does not have corn in it which squirrels love, I find that unless I introduce the Oxbow immediately as a first solid food and feed NOTHING ELSE except formula to my newly eyes-opened babies, I cannot get anyone to eat it. Those that I'd started on Mazuri or Zupreem refused to switch to Oxbow. So......get it in there first or don't bother :grin2

[ilovemyroscoe91]

oh, well I went ahead and ordered the Oxbow Garden select for my almost three year-old. I hope he likes it, if he don't then I'll have to try the Teklad or the Mazuri.
All I can do is try until I find something right? Lol

[ilovemyroscoe91]

Thank you so much everyone! I think I've decided to go ahead and do the 2 HHB along with the Rodent block throughout the day.
So how many times a day should I feed the block? And at what times? Should I start the morning with the block instead of HHB or give him both?

Also for the boo balls would any of this be any good to add to it (1st picture below) I bought it a while ago when I thought I was going to make my own blocks.

The 2nd picture is some of Bill Sells Nut square mix, I ordered it a while ago before I really did the research. So I never used it, I guess I want to know if it's any good to me, or should I throw it away.

What about this?

[Jen413]

I've heard the nut square mix is trash. The other two from Henry's is what is used to make home made HHB's. I believe there is a recipe for the home made blocks that use both of those somewhere on the board. Maybe even on Henry's website? I've seen it somewhere I'm just not sure of it's exact location. :)

[ilovemyroscoe91]

Would I be able to add it to boo balls? Or would that be over adding?

[cava]

Would I be able to add it to boo balls? Or would that be over adding?


I have added that exact calcium carbonate to my boo balls. I sprinkle it into the dry mix of blocks/nuts before adding the oil and baby food.

IR suggested it and said she sprinkles straight onto nuts and her's doesn't even taste it. Mine didn't notice it all and I was happy to counter the nuts that I add to my boo balls.

[ilovemyroscoe91]

Awesome! I'll Def be doing that. About how much should I add?
I may add some of the Vitamin one too.
Not much, just enough.

[SophieSquirrel]

I've heard the nut square mix is trash

I think the biggest problem with that formulation is "Alfalfa powder" - for squirrels? REALLY? I don't see Alfalfa anywhere on the "triangle"! Also the formula uses KAL Dolomite which can contain lead, Barium, Mercury and even weak radioactive isotopes! Many health food store discontinued this product for that very reason. Also quantities of ingredients are not listed, for all we know it's 80% pecans. This product comes from the same source that recommends "Scalded Milk" as an infant formula :shakehead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: www.livestrong.com

Contamination Possibility

Dolomite can sometimes be contaminated with high amounts of lead, barium, mercury and other toxic chemicals.

[ilovemyroscoe91]

I think the biggest problem with that formulation is "Alfalfa powder" - for squirrels? REALLY? I don't see Alfalfa anywhere on the "triangle"! Also the formula uses KAL Dolomite which can contain lead, Barium, Mercury and even weak radioactive isotopes! Many health food store discontinued this product for that very reason. Also quantities of ingredients are not listed, for all we know it's 80% pecans. This product comes from the same source that recommends "Scalded Milk" as an infant formula :shakehead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: www.livestrong.com

Contamination Possibility

Dolomite can sometimes be contaminated with high amounts of lead, barium, mercury and other toxic chemicals.

Ah, I see. Then I'll be throwing it out. Thank you!

[SophieSquirrel]

Ah, I see. Then I'll be throwing it out. Thank you!

You didn't know. The person selling these and hawking the scalded milk recipe paid Google for SEO to to make sure his page appears first unlike Henry's and Chris's who earned their excellent reputations with quality products and sound squirrel husbandry.

[ilovemyroscoe91]

Honestly Bill Sells was the first person I really got in contact with for squirrel questions, before I found the squirrel board. He help me figure out lighting. I didn't know a UVB bulb was needed. My boys tail fur was thinning and I panicked and emailed him. I then started to try out his nut squares. He seemed like a nice guy. Then I got on the squirrel board and started reading about the nutrition.

[SophieSquirrel]

Honestly Bill Sells was the first person I really got in contact with for squirrel questions, before I found the squirrel board. He help me figure out lighting. I didn't know a UVB bulb was needed. My boys tail fur was thinning and I panicked and emailed him. I then started to try out his nut squares. He seemed like a nice guy. Then I got on the squirrel board and started reading about the nutrition.

I am sure he is a very nice guy. It's just his nutritional information is way off and the Scalded Milk formula is actually deadly to young squirrels. In defense of him it's a woman who is behind this horrible dietary misinformation - we'll call her "C" b/c I don't want to use names. She is not liked by a lot of PPL. Here is an excerpt from his website: "The recipe I'm about to share with you was adapted from a lady named C" <redacted>

The reason I am so vocal about this (along with others) is b/c I love squirrels and don't want to see any die due to deliberate or ignorant misinformation. This excellent post says it all: https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?5843-STOP!-NEVER-FEED-COW-S-MILK-TO-BABY-SQUIRRELS!

Here is the truth about how scalded milk harms squirrels: http://www.squirreltales.org/sq-pics.htm

Anyway you found the best place for information with open minded people who evolve when something is not working. An example is when there were some issues with Fox Valley 32/40 the experts on here adapted to using Esbilac Puppy transitioning to Fox Valley 20/50 when old enough. The "Scalded Milk followers" will not even acknowledge a possible problem treating their "doctrine" almost with religious fervor. I know that sounds nuts but many on TSB will agree with that analogy.

It's like the whole "which block is best" issue that's been debated lately. There is no substitute for mother squirrels milk or a wild diet. We are always trying to fine tune what works best and while the blocks mentioned are not ideal they are not detrimental to a sqrls health. Some diets and products are just plain bad akin to feeding McDonalds to a child 3 meals a day, every day for life.

You can't go wrong with Henry's, Teklad, Mazuri, Oxbow, Zupreem, Esbilac Puppy, or Fox Valley products. Below <photo> is an example of something labeled "Squirrel Food" that WILL absolutely kill your captive squirrel. There are many products like this being marketed at the detriment to a squirrels health even by people with websites who sell squirrel specific products. Off the :soapbox

BAD Diet
298725

[ilovemyroscoe91]

Wild harvested untreated only. Use a hacksaw with a unused blade to cut them into cross sections no bigger than a walnut. Theh appeals to squirrels to be able to hold them in their paws and gnaw on them like they do nuts.

I read somewhere about some infection antlers can have, but never had that issue thankfully. Preboiling and cooling them of course wouldn't hurt any; it gets into the nooks and cranies to sterlize the outside.

Place the cross sectioned pieces into a plastic microwave safe container with a lid, preferably one with some venting, just incase the pieces crack, and boil them in the container in the microwave, that way you get the inside and the outside sterlized as much as can be done. Get the deer antler pieces, not Elk, as the elk sources have sharp edges. Make cross sections, not long sections, with a hacksaw using a new blade.

I'm about to boil the pieces of antler I cut up in the microwave, but I was wondering how long do I put them in for??

[BigNibbler]

ilovemyrosco... SO how did you do with the Oxbow and the Antlers ? I have never been able to get mine to gnaw on the antlers

Also, who is saying that hay - timothy or alfalfa is not good ? Any reference to that ?

Thanks

[SophieSquirrel]

Also, who is saying that hay - timothy or alfalfa is not good ? Any reference to that ?


Are we talking for gray or fox squirrels? Any zoological vet or exotic vet specialist that knows Sciurus carolinensis or Sciurus niger will confirm that Timothy or Alfalfa is not part of their diet. Not saying in the dead of winter when their usual foods are not available and they find green grass buried under the snow they won't nibble, or eat certain grass seeds. Now if you feed your gray a proper diet of blocks and the Henry's diet and throw in Timothy for bedding they may or may not nibble and that is fine. Including Timothy/Alfalfa in a pellet or block where they have no choice but to eat and digest it is feeding your squirrel the wrong diet and can cause digestive issues.

Now for Ground Squirrels like Prairie Dogs, Richardson's, 13 Lined G.S. etc - timothy hay is the main part of their diet (13 Lined it's seeds + grasses) along with a fortified Timothy pellet.

[BigNibbler]

Are we talking for gray or fox squirrels? Any zoological vet or exotic vet specialist that knows Sciurus carolinensis or Sciurus niger will confirm that Timothy or Alfalfa is not part of their diet. Not saying in the dead of winter when their usual foods are not available and they find green grass buried under the snow they won't nibble, or eat certain grass seeds. Now if you feed your gray a proper diet of blocks and the Henry's diet and throw in Timothy for bedding they may or may not nibble and that is fine. Including Timothy/Alfalfa in a pellet or block where they have no choice but to eat and digest it is feeding your squirrel the wrong diet and can cause digestive issues.

Now for Ground Squirrels like Prairie Dogs, Richardson's, 13 Lined G.S. etc - timothy hay is the main part of their diet (13 Lined it's seeds + grasses) along with a fortified Timothy pellet.


Thanks for your rapid response. I definitely value natural habitat as an indicator of diet. Not sure what I had been researching but about three years ago I ordered some blend of alfalfa and timothy hay. I hydrated it, cause it was dried, and left it for my local wilds. Some loved it. Then I tried it on my juveniles about to be released. They loved nibbling on on the moist but not soaked blocks. Eventually I started adding it to my version of boo balls. I mix 1200 grams of dry boo ball mix and add 60 grams of the mixed hay.
Been doing this for about 2 years. 3 squirrels have been eating them like that since. I thought it had a lot to offer and took a chance. Empirical evidence so far... seems OK.
I don't add any additional liquid to the hay blocks, which I NINJA into finely ground powder.

Certainly would stop if there is convincing info... I keep the supply in my upright freezer. So its not getting moldy.

This is not the research I had done, but a quick search example of benefits. And yes, I have Eastern Gray
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/alfalfa

[SophieSquirrel]

I thought you were referring to a long term captive. For wilds they can choose to eat the block w/Timothy or not - as some have.

Captives are at our mercy and the best diet for captives/NR's is the Henry's diet along with HHB's and a good rodent block like Teklad or Mazuri (less Alfalfa or Timothy). This diet is proven for captives.

If you provide loose (dry) Timothy along with a quality block they will have a choice if they want it or not. Wet Timothy grows mold and even if frozen will mold once thawed if not dried out quickly. Mold will kill a squirrel.

As far as the nutritional benefits of Alfalfa that can not be denied but digestion of such is better suited to ruminants. Why re-invent the wheel, just buy a good rodent block.

[ilovemyroscoe91]

ilovemyrosco... SO how did you do with the Oxbow and the Antlers ? I have never been able to get mine to gnaw on the antlers

Also, who is saying that hay - timothy or alfalfa is not good ? Any reference to that ?

Thanks

So sorry I'm just now seeing this!
Roscoe loved the Oxbow Garden select but after about a month I ordered some teklad and he loved that even more, so I mixed the 2 together and slowly got him on just the teklad.
As for the antlers it took him quite a while to even pick one up but once he did I've caught him knawing on the ends and the middle marrow part quite a few times! I was very happy!