Baby refuses food

[Javarat]

Two baby boys... 2 1/2 weeks old. Pip and Squeak. 50 grams each.
Just starting to get tummy fur.
Went through pneumonia at 1 week old. Were fed milk.

I got them last Friday. They were 36 grams.
They started out on half Esbilac (with probiotics) and half FV 20/50.
Gained weight to 45 grams.

Swapped them to half Esbilac and half Goat formula (3 pt goat, 1 pt heavy whipping cream, 1 pt whole milk vanilla yogurt) yesterday at 6pm.
Pip immediately started acting like he did not like the taste.
This morning at 3am Pip started acted uninterested in formula, while Squeak acted like he was starving.
Had to start pushing the syringe into his mouth, small squirt.. let him swallow.. after a bit he started sucking.
Meanwhile, Pips poop was acting erratic.

Started giving them .5 ml water in between feedings today at noon.
Pip starts out like "GIMME'... tastes the water (or new formula or old formula) and makes a sour face. Doesn't want any more.
Both of their stomachs look about the same. (see pictures below) Pictures were taken about 2 hours after last feeding.
Listening to both with a stethoscope.. i do not hear any clicking.
I think the heat in their tub is correct.. they do not feel hot to touch, but are not seeking each other out for heat. They are lying on their sides near each other.
Based on their erratic pooping.. I am considering a small dose of infant Gasx.. and a water diet for several feedings.
Would very much like suggestions and advice.

<<<< Pip on left ----------- Squeak on right >>>>>
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[stepnstone]

They started out on half Esbilac (with probiotics) and half FV 20/50.
Gained weight to 45 grams.
Swapped them to half Esbilac and half Goat formula (3 pt goat, 1 pt heavy whipping cream, 1 pt whole milk vanilla yogurt) yesterday at 6pm.
They were gaining, why did you switch up on the formula?
Besides the switch which appears likely a problem, babies that age are not going
to have an easy time digesting the additives of the whipping cream and yogurt.
The erratic poos are likely stating that.

[SammysMom]

What made you change to GM formula?

[Javarat]

It was suggested by Cava in Nursery forum.
And I was nervous about using FV 20/50 (adult formula) as half the mixture.
And nervous about 100% Esbilac.
I was already having varying poops... she suggested the Es/GM mix.
She said all of her pinks do well on esbilac/goat mix.

I can swap back, if the consensus is the Esbilac/FV 20/50 is better.

More importantly.. GasX (1 drop) and then water for 2 to 4 feedings? And then gradually work in the original formula?

[stepnstone]

It was suggested by a rehabber in Nursery forum.
And I was nervous about using FV 20/50 (adult formula) as half the mixture.
She said all of her pinks do well on esbilac/goat mix.

Number one, your babies are not pinks, at least not now.
If it's not broke don't fix it....
Your babies were getting the better nutrition with the 50/50 esbilac and FV 20/50.
With the Goat's milk your adding additives to try and accomplish what you already had.

I've had many sets of babies that have done well on just Esbilac, I go to 50/50 with FV on some
sets to add more fat to their diet as they get older and can digest their formula better.

[Javarat]

okay.. next question.
5% every 3 hours... or every 4 hours?
The chart on this site says max 5% every 3 hours until 3 weeks.
But I am seeing people saying they do 4 hours... (better underfed than overfed)

[stepnstone]

okay.. next question.
5% every 3 hours... or every 4 hours?
The chart on this site says max 5% every 3 hours until 3 weeks.
But I am seeing people saying they do 4 hours... (better underfed than overfed)
You really don't want to be underfeeding them but As long as they eat well, gaining and not
acting like they are starving in between meals you can go every four. This also gives them
better time to completely digest the previous meal.

[Javarat]

GREAT NEWS.

With your advice.. I decided to go back to feeding them a 50/50 mix of Esbilac/FV, every 4 hours.
By the time I came to this decision, it had been 4 hours since last feeding.
I mixed up my original formula (with a little extra water), brought it near Pips face...
.. AND HE WENT BANANAS
He turbo-sucked 2.5 ml... while continually demanding "MORE!"
(The same squirrel who had to be forced to eat for the last 12 hours)

So we have discovered the problem...
... Pip is a FOX VALLEY ADDICT.
He REFUSES any mix that does not contain FV.

To further add to my happiness,
Squeak peed a LOT... and pooped 10 pellets, and
Pip speed a LOT.. and pooped 15 pellets!

I swear the little bugger is sleeping with a smile on his face.

Thanks everyone :)

[SophieSquirrel]

Here is my feeding set up. I mix my FV (Esb 4 pinkies) with hot water in the glass tumbler and put in the fridge with a cap after it cools down. It sets for 24 hours to absorb. I keep 2 tumblers rotating when I am busy so I always have one ready that is fully dissolved. There have been reports of 32/40 sitting like cement in pinkies and I think allowing powered formula sufficient time to absorb water is the key. The stainless restaurant sauce cup is my warming cup. I just put the cup with formula in a bowl of shallow warm water until it's the temp I want. The stainless conducts heat better than glass. You can get these cups at most large commercial restaurant supply stores. if you use the 2 tumbler method make sure you make just enough for your current volume of consumption. If you make to much you have to watch your shelf life in the fridge and make sure you cap it. As SnS says add in the 20/50 to the Esb as they get old enough. Based on the photos your formula is correct.

SnS is right, if they are taking that mix and stools are good stick with it - just make sure it's dissolved thoroughly and the right temp.

298505

[stepnstone]

To further add to my happiness,
Squeak peed a LOT... and pooped 10 pellets, and
Pip speed a LOT.. and pooped 15 pellets!
Yes Lord you know we're :owned when counting squirrel poop brings us happiness! :rofl4
Good to hear your babies are getting back on track! :great :grouphug

[cava]

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?59669-Pip-amp-Squeak

Yes, I did make that recommendation based on your other thread in which you described a baby as dehydrated, unable to poop, not producing urine and refusing food. The information was given to me by a respected member and rehabber on the board and very successful for the four babies I just raised.

Please, feel free to use what works for you. Everyone does things their own way and I was suggesting a solution for you and your muffin.

I'm glad everyone is eating eagerly now.

[Javarat]

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?59669-Pip-amp-Squeak

Yes, I did make that recommendation based on your other thread in which you described a baby as dehydrated, unable to poop, not producing urine and refusing food. The information was given to me by a respected member and rehabber on the board and very successful for the four babies I just raised.

Please, feel free to use what works for you. Everyone does things their own way and I was suggesting a solution for you and your muffin.

I'm glad everyone is eating eagerly now.Your suggestion was good, and I feel good about it.
Neither of us had any idea that one of the babies is a Fox Valley addict.
He totally refuses to eat unless he tastes some FV in the mix.
I bet he would do FV endorsements for peanuts.

[Spanky]

It sets for 24 hours to absorb.

I am curious how long you keep refrigerated formula for use (and what others might do as well)? I usually toss at 36 hours, so setting for 24 hours would provide only 12 hours of feeding in my regiment.

[Spanky]

And I was nervous about using FV 20/50 (adult formula) as half the mixture.
And nervous about 100% Esbilac.

FWIW - The FV guidelines suggest starting a slow transition to 20/50 at 3 weeks, which I believe is in the ballpark for Pip and Squeak? The 20/50 is not really an adult formula, it is more a non-pinky formula.

[island rehabber]

Just a note about Gas-X: it's for bloat, not irregular poops. If you see the beginnings of bloat you want to use the Gas-X or simethicone, not for any other reason. Lack of appetite is usually due to dehydration, aspiration pneumonia, formula being too cold, or feedings being too close together. So happy you've figured out the secret to your little guy!