Seizure and teeth trimming

[Marzipan]

Hello,

First of all I wanted to inform you that I am in contact with Iwonka since we both live in Montreal.

I contacted her a few days ago because I realized that our squirrel has misaligned teeth. Basically the upper teeth grow parallel to the palate. Squirrel never let me check its teeth and I simply did not know. The upper teeth do not puncture the palate yet.

Today I was supposed to go to Iwonka's house for the trim. About an hour before leaving I realized the squirrel was being off, the head seemed shaky. Right away I ran to the kitchen to crush up 1000mg tums. I went back to the room where the squirrel had a seizure in my hand :sadness The squirrel was stiff and shaking violently and peed itself. Right away I gave a small spoon full of the mixture. A few seconds later the squirrel gained back its energy and ran under a wardrobe. It is the first seizure I witnessed. I cannot say 100% that he never had one :( However he was still mobile, running, climbing and playing.

It is currently hiding out and barking at me whenever I try to approach it.

Iwonka wanted me to post and ask if it is safe or true stressful to proceed with the trimming tomorrow. The teeth got very long the past weeks.

Now to its diet:

Squirrel was found at the age of about 10 weeks. It was fairly big. I bought the esbilac puppy forumla but the squirrel was not interested. Now the mistake I made. I fed it tomatoes, avocados and cucumbers but the squirrel still had access to be freely outside all day so there is a chance that he got the nutrients himself somewhere. At night I would take it in and let it sleep in my shed.

I took the squirrel into the house for the winter since it gets very cold in Montreal. I Gave him rat/rabbit rodent blocks, which he ate a bit but not really. Made the mistake of keeping feeding him veggies of nuts.

Then about a week ago I discovered this forum and realized the diet was crap so I ordered the henry's blocks picky eater but have not gotten them yet.

The squirrel also had fleas and I ordered revolution that I did not receive yet. I gave it a dawn bath but some fleas seemed to have survived. Is it safe to use it on the squirrel although he got seizures?

I am already doing the MBD protocol. I am planning on feeding the Henry's blocks as its main diet with some green veggies.

Thank you and sorry if this post is all over the place.

[Jen413]

Couple of questions that will help the more experienced rehabbers help you when they read your post:

How old was he/she when he started going outside?

How old is he/she now?

How long has he/she been inside with that diet?

Any chance he/she could have hit or injured his/her head?

I'm sure they may have more questions but answering these now may save you time later. :grin3

Edit: Is it a he/she and what is his/her name?

[Marzipan]

Couple of questions that will help the more experienced rehabbers help you when they read your post:

How old was he/she when he started going outside?

How old is he/she now?

How long has he/she been inside with that diet?

Any chance he/she could have hit or injured his/her head?

I'm sure they may have more questions but answering these now may save you time later. :grin3

Edit: Is it a he/she and what is his/her name?

-She was found when she was about 10-11 weeks old. She has been outside from september until november sleeping in my shed and being outside the rest of the day.

-Now, she must be around 5 months old

-She has had this diet for the past two months. She mainly eats kale, avocados, brussels sprouts, romaine lettuce, and a little bit of walnuts. She will chew on the rodent blocks here and there but it is obviously not enough. I think her misaligned teeth also give her a hard time chewing properly.

- Honestly, there might be. I have a squirrel proof bed room for her and she has access to roam around by herself from 8am to around 6pm. There is a chance she might have fallen without us knowing.

- Her name is Bizy. Former Billy because I thought it was a male.

Thank you so much for your reply!

She left her hiding spot now and sprinted into her bed into her cage. Going to let her relax a bit until I give her the next Calcium dose.

[Mel1959]

If she actually eats the stuff you listed, it doesn’t sound terrible, as long as the nuts (1 or 2) are an occasional treat. Henry’s rodent blocks are supplemental blocks, so 2 a day are fed with healthy veggies. Harlan Teklad block is a free feeding block, so they can have as much as they want. The block can be ground and mixed with baby food veggies to entice them to eat it. There are lots of recipes on here for them, they’re called boo balls.

I’m not sure about the stress of a teeth trimming causing a seizure. I believe it could, but more experienced folks may chime in. Maybe giving her some Rescue Remedy would help calm her prior to the trimming, since it sounds like the trimming is necessary. Rescue Remedy is found at health food stores in my area.

[Marzipan]

If she actually eats the stuff you listed, it doesn’t sound terrible, as long as the nuts (1 or 2) are an occasional treat. Henry’s rodent blocks are supplemental blocks, so 2 a day are fed with healthy veggies. Harlan Teklad block is a free feeding block, so they can have as much as they want. The block can be ground and mixed with baby food veggies to entice them to eat it. There are lots of recipes on here for them, they’re called boo balls.

I’m not sure about the stress of a teeth trimming causing a seizure. I believe it could, but more experienced folks may chime in. Maybe giving her some Rescue Remedy would help calm her prior to the trimming, since it sounds like the trimming is necessary. Rescue Remedy is found at health food stores in my area.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, the veggies she eats are healthy ones, but she still lacked the high quality Henry's.

I do not think the trim will cause a seizure. I am just worried the stress from the seizure plus trimming will actually give her a deathly shock. But sadly the trim is necessary.

I will ask Iwonka tomorrow if she usually gives them something to calm down. Sadly, we do not have such a great selection of products here in Quebec. I doubt I would find it here.

[SophieSquirrel]

Sounds like she may have been injured from a fall when she was young or there is a genetic problem. Lacking cooperative vets in Canada with corrective rodent dental knowledge I seriously doubt a clipper trim will permanently correct the incisor issues. She will probably need ongoing trims for life as these issues usually don't correct themselves on their own. She may have to reside indoors as an NR since she will eventually "wild up" outdoors and not allow trims, or move away and die a painful death from a punctured palate or starvation. Seizures more than likely from a head injury that also damaged her teeth causing malocclusion or MBD.

Your diet wasn't all that bad and the Henry's Blocks will certainly help. I would continue with the MBD protocol, get her teeth trimmed, and consider keeping her as a non-releasable. There are many experts on TSB to guide you on keeping an indoor girl healthy. I am always for the release of a healthy squirrel, but seizures and extreme dental issues like you described are very disconcerting.

Make a rodent taco out of a towel and wear thin leather gloves - luckily the upper incisors can't injure you with a bite, but the lowers can. If you were in the U.S. we could find a vet who could do it with Isoflourine (gas) so all you can do is the best you can with what you have. Here is a video guide to trimming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLhYSdffx0A A squirrel will not be a docile as the rat in this demo...


Have you seen this link on the Henry's page: https://www.henryspets.com/healthy-diet-for-pet-squirrels/

[Marzipan]

Sounds like she may have been injured from a fall when she was young or there is a genetic problem. Lacking cooperative vets in Canada with corrective rodent dental trimming knowledge I seriously doubt a clipper trim will permanently correct the incisor issues. She will probably need ongoing trims for life as these issues usually don't correct themselves on their own. She may have to reside indoors as an NR since she will eventually "wild up" outdoors and not allow trims, or move away and die a painful death from a punctured palate or starvation. As far as the seizures probably not from trimming, more than likely from a head injury that also damaged her teeth causing malocclusion or MBD.

Your diet wasn't all that bad and the Henry's Blocks will certainly help. I would continue with the MBD protocol, get her teeth trimmed, and consider keeping her as a non-releasable. There are many experts on TSB to guide you on keeping an indoor girl healthy. I am always for the release of a healthy squirrel, but seizures and extreme dental issues like you described are very disconcerting.

Make a rodent taco out of a towel and wear thin leather gloves - luckily the upper incisors can't injure you with a bite, but the lowers can. If you were in the U.S. we could find a vet who could do it with Isoflourine (gas) so all you can do is the best you can with what you have. Here is a video guide to trimming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLhYSdffx0A


Have you seen this link on the Henry's page: https://www.henryspets.com/healthy-diet-for-pet-squirrels/


Thank you for your reply. You are right, I doubt she will be releasable. I really don't mind. We had a good thing going on this summer where she was allowed to be out all day but would come back to eat and sleep. At least she gets to enjoy the outdoors like a regular squirrel.

You might be onto something with the head injury while young. I always found it odd that a squirrel at her age (10-11 weeks) was so helpless. I basically spotted her on the street running beneath driving cars. Two days later she was in front of my patio door begging. Very dependent for a "teenage" squirrel. I spotted her siblings and they were independently moving around and gathering food.


Thank you so much for the great tips! Sadly, we do not have many wild life resources here, we even get fined for feeding squirrels. But thankfully I found Iwonka who will show me how to properly trim tomorrow!

[SophieSquirrel]

You are right, I doubt she will be releasable. I really don't mind!


I agree based on what you have posted. There is a lot of support for "NR's" here on TSB. You will see those of us who have them love them and give them excellent care.

I use heavy bar locked bird cages for a summer semi-shade "sunning" (supervised) so mine can get out and enjoy the outdoors without risk of escape. None of mine would survive outdoors for very long.

[George]

I just trimmed some teeth a few days ago of a girl I'm rehabbing right now. Also a bad head trauma case. She's got tons of energy and lashes around so in order to make trimming feasible, I actually used Benadryl. You have to be very careful about the dosage so you need to weigh your squirrel or make a rough estimation and start small. But it made all the difference for me. The Benadryl made her calm and easy to restrain. She was unable to eat solids at all before and now she is eating everything except solid blocks.

[iwonka]

You might be onto something with the head injury while young. I always found it odd that a squirrel at her age (10-11 weeks) was so helpless. I basically spotted her on the street running beneath driving cars. Two days later she was in front of my patio door begging. Very dependent for a "teenage" squirrel. I spotted her siblings and they were independently moving around and gathering food.


.. or maybe she was raised by a human.
Honestly, I’ve never seen a wild baby squirrel 8++ weeks old runs after human. At that age they are too wild.

[Marzipan]

Her teeth were successfully trimmed today.

However she is acting very off, running around and then running backwards in reverse.

To be honest I do not think she will make the night.

:sniff

[LR]

Did you give her any medication before you trimmed her teeth?

Praying for your girlie....

[Marzipan]

Did you give her any medication before you trimmed her teeth?

Praying for your girlie....

Thanks for your reply.

No we did not. The person that thankfully did it for me said that in her experience it was usually counter effective. Also she had a seizure yesterday so I did not think it was safe to give her anything.

I hope that she was "just" shook from her first trimming. I know it is a bad timing but it had to be done since the teeth grew so long the past two weeks.

She went to her bed now chewing on some rodent blocks admiring her new normal teeth. She seemed a bit better.

[Mel1959]

I hope she does ok through the night and you have a great update in the morning. Praying for your little girl. :Love_Icon

[Marzipan]

I hope she does ok through the night and you have a great update in the morning. Praying for your little girl. :Love_Icon

Thank you a lot! Poor little thing has so many issues.

Just checked on her and she was sleeping calmly.

Will update tomorrow!:Love_Icon

[Diggie's Friend]

For seisures give one small drop of organic real maple syrup, or Grandma's Original dark 2nd molasses, three times a day on the gums if the squirrel isn't interested in licking it up. This is needed for the blood sugar drops from having a seizure.

Magnesium also is lowered from seizures. Magnesuim inhibits seizures, so add in Magnesium glycinate (Swanson) powder no additives. Give one eighth portion of scoop, scoop equals 400 mg. comes to 50 mg. magnesium, split the amount and give half AM and the other half PM. You can add this to a liquid organic Kefir (liquid yogurt) or (Redwood Hills Farms Kefir, watered down to give it in a nursing syringe, or add to organic applesauce with no sugars or artificial ones added.

[Diggie's Friend]

After I read she had MBD I thought to recommend adding both Calcium citrate and Magnesium Glycinate in a 2:1 ratio, as not to lower calcium in the diet.

Also, as to not add stress to your squirrel at this time, try adding the powders to mashed skinned and pitted avocado, as it is also a good source of magnesium.

Both sources from Swanson.

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-pure-dairy-free-calcium-citrate-powder-8-oz-227-grams-pwdr

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-albion-chelated-magnesium-glycinate-5-3-oz-150-grams-pwdr

Calcium Citrate powder:divide one scoop into three equal parts, and place two parts back into the jar.

Then divide the one part into two or three parts, depending on whether you want to split it two or three ways to feed in avocado during the day.

Magnesium glycinate powder: divide one scoop into 8 equal parts; put 7 parts back, and with the one part divide it into the same number of parts (two or three) you did the calcium the last time.

Then pair one part of each to add to 1 Tsp. of avocado, or applesauce (two or three times a day).

Total daily you will be giving daily then would be (116 mg.) elemental calcium & (50 mg.) elemental magnesium.

[Diggie's Friend]

As I have no way presently to measure the amounts the reductions will come to by volume;

Rely upon the reductions as described for the targeted amounts for each source.

Just remember, the 1 Tsp. is for the avocado base also two or three times a day,

not the powdered calcium and magnesium measures.

P.S. Be sure when you fish out the scoop, to also remove the dessicant packets.

[Marzipan]

After I read she had MBD I thought to recommend adding both Calcium citrate and Magnesium Glycinate in a 2:1 ratio, as not to lower calcium in the diet.

Also, as to not add stress to your squirrel at this time, try adding the powders to mashed skinned and pitted avocado, as it is also a good source of magnesium.

Both sources from Swanson.

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-pure-dairy-free-calcium-citrate-powder-8-oz-227-grams-pwdr

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-albion-chelated-magnesium-glycinate-5-3-oz-150-grams-pwdr

Calcium Citrate powder:divide one scoop into three equal parts, and place two parts back into the jar.

Then divide the one part into two or three parts, depending on whether you want to split it two or three ways to feed in avocado during the day.

Magnesium glycinate powder: divide one scoop into 8 equal parts; put 7 parts back, and with the one part divide it into the same number of parts (two or three) you did the calcium the last time.

Then pair one part of each to add to 1 Tsp. of avocado, or applesauce (two or three times a day).

Total daily you will be giving daily then would be (116 mg.) elemental calcium & (50 mg.) elemental magnesium.

Thank you for the great tip! Until now I have been force feeding the calcium but that was stressful for her . So now I am making small peanut butter balls. She actually enjoys them.

I will go out and get some additional supplements. I also changed the shipment method for the henry blocks to 2-3 days so that I can start a 100% healthy diet asap.

I just checked for the Swanson brand, I do not think it is sold in Quebec. Do you think it would be the same to get Magnesium Glycinate pills and crush them?

[Marzipan]

BTW the squirrel is doing better today.

I believe that when she walked backwards and acted all wild it was because she was scared of me due to the trimming.
I went to see her while she ate and she dropped the food to hide her face from me with her paws. Whenever my mother goes to see her she acts fine. So I will give her a bit of space until she gets over it. Poor girl, I hope her teeth will grow normally so that she won't need trimmings again.

Another concern I have, it has been one week she has had fleas. I ordered revolution on that australian website but I still did not receive it.
I gave her a bath with dawn but it did not kill them all. Now they are back and she is scratching like crazy.

Is there an alternative to giving her a bath again? She did not like it and I do not want to stress the poor thing again.

[LR]

I have ordered the Revolution from Joe's Pet Meds twice now. It took almost three weeks to get here both times.

If you have a small flea comb for kittens you could try using that on her.

[Marzipan]

I have ordered the Revolution from Joe's Pet Meds twice now. It took almost three weeks to get here both times.

If you have a small flea comb for kittens you could try using that on her.

Thanks for the info!
I could not order from Joe's because they do not deliver to Canada. I got it from that australian site "Sierra Pet Meds".

I think I will try to get a damp cloth with some dawn on it and work it into her fur.

Poor thing has so many problems.

[SophieSquirrel]

BTW the squirrel is doing better today.

I believe that when she walked backwards and acted all wild it was because she was scared of me due to the trimming.
I went to see her while she ate and she dropped the food to hide her face from me with her paws. Whenever my mother goes to see her she acts fine. So I will give her a bit of space until she gets over it. Poor girl, I hope her teeth will grow normally so that she won't need trimmings again.

Another concern I have, it has been one week she has had fleas. I ordered revolution on that australian website but I still did not receive it.
I gave her a bath with dawn but it did not kill them all. Now they are back and she is scratching like crazy.

Is there an alternative to giving her a bath again? She did not like it and I do not want to stress the poor thing again.

I use revolution but any flea spay that is safe for kittens will work. Never spray directly on a squirrel. Spray on a facecloth and use the face cloth on the squirrel avoiding the face. Give it some time to act and then re-bathe the squirrel if you want. A flea comb will help.

Keep an close eye on those teeth. I have had some that received incisor and molar correction from expert vets and although there was improvement the teeth continued to grow irregular. During a fall if the jaw or bone that anchors the teeth is damaged it will heal improperly without intervention and the teeth will continue to grow improperly regardless of trimming. She is lucky to have found you as most with that condition just die in the wild.

[Diggie's Friend]

So you know, there is another source of Calcium citrate that is even more affordable you can get on Amazon.com put out by Frontier Naturals 1 1b. bulk. This is the same one I've used in my tree squirrel diet. I saw another company carrying Magnesium glycinate, but for some reason one comment on this source related it smelled like ammonia for some reason, rather odd? Perhaps it is just the smell of this form of magnesium the person found unpleasant to them? Bulk minerals are a better choice than those that have additives most agree.

The supplement I share here is to inhibit the cause of seizures, not as a total daily supplement , only a supplement of magnesium with calcium so that calcium uptake isn't lowered in the diet by adding magnesium.

For a daily source I presently recommend this default rat diet:

http://weecompanions.org/healthy-food 2016 Teklad Rodent Diet


Teklad Global 16% Protein Rodent Diet

2016 is a fixed formula, non-autoclavable diet manufactured with high quality ingredients and designed to support growth and maintenance. 2016 does not contain alfalfa or soybean meal, thus minimizing the occurrence of natural phytoestrogens.

This source can be ground up and added to organic plain yogurt, or you can try it with some organic Chia oil From "Foods Alive" available on Amazon.com) that members using it have found makes the block more palatable, as well as more healthy.

[Marzipan]

Hello guys!

Thank you all for the great tips!
I just wanted to give you a little update.

The MBD treatment is going well so far. No seizures or paralyzed legs.

Her upper teeth did not grow misaligned yet. We only got them trimmed two weeks ago, so time will tell.

She received revolution to address the flea issue and boy was this a game changer. She started eating a lot again and stopped being weird. Poor thing was going crazy with all those fleas. Her fur became very puffy and shiny again.


One issue that I saw was that her tail seems to be injured. When she runs she will raise her hind legs very high and her tail does not move. It gets dragged on the floor. However, there seems to be blood circulation in her tail. It feels and looks the same. She just does not move it for now.I hope it will heal on its own.

Now in regards to her diet, she loves her Henry blocks. She also eats rodent blocks from time to time.

Her daily intake these days:

2 Henry blocks
Rodent blocks
Kale
Cucumbers
Avocados
Celery
Brussel sprouts
lettuce

Thanks again to everyone! Hopefully she will be releasable one day :Love_Icon

[Diggie's Friend]

Not bad. I would encourage you to make up some organic baked squash; Butternut is perhaps the best one Calcium to Phosphorus ratio wise, though Acorn squash is close to it. Using a simple melon baller you can scoop out 1/2 Tsp. of baked squash portions, and place them onto a ceramic plate, or a metal tray lined with wax paper. Then placing the tray into a large freezer bag, put it in the freezer, where once frozen you can remove the tray and store the squash ready to thaw, or warm up as you desire in the microwave and cool to room temperature before feeding. This source is not just a good source of fiber, but of vitamins high in betacarotene, and lower in sugar than root vegetables; it also contains minerals, is a good source of protein, amino acids, and anti-oxidants.

With Brussel Sprouts would suggest slicing a bud in half and steaming or boiling it for ten minutes, as this nott just reduces it from being otherwise gasseous, but also makes the calcium it contains, that otherwise non-bioavailable raw, is made bioavailable to the body of rodents, when drained and rinsed after boiling. In healthy humans this is not as much of an issue due to their digestive tract not absorbing oxalates to the degreen rodents and tree squirerls also have been found in research to do.

With Kale, soaking it in water, or better steaming it for a few minutes to reduce gasseousness is also a plus.

[EdgeNut]

D G
please reply to you post on the gathering