sick grey squirrel

[Carla]

my 6 yr. old male grey squirrel started having seizures 4 months ago. I give him clavamox once a month for 7 days. This takes care of the problem for about 4 weeks and the seizures come back. When he is on clavamox his bowel movements are normal. when he gets sick, his movements are very dark almost black. only clavamox takes care of the problem, but only for a month at a time. He gets his sunlight each day and eats pretty good. I have even put ear mite rx. in his ears. Before he has a seizure, he will run like a jet in his cage, and start shaking and fall. He will breathe hard and gasp several times and then he will get up and get in his corner for a while. all I can say is, when he is on clavamox he is normal and full of life with no problems, but that only lasts for a month before he gets sick again. Any suggestions will help. I love this squirrel very much, he is a lot of fun when he isn't sick. Please help.

[ravenlaws32]

ok im a rehabber , but have never heard of anything like that. itis not a good thing to keep giving antibiotics thou because liek in humans yo uwill build a immunity to it over time . most good doctors will not give out meds all the time.

ok first off hi and welcome , alot of great folks here to help . I want to know what his day consists of ? what do you feed him?? you mentioned sunlight os it real sunlight or inside light?? it is definately seizures and how did you happen upon the squirrel?? fall from a tree??? you found him ??? we kinda need to know the whole story from time you found him .

head injuries can cause this behavior, tumors can , mbd , etc so be specific when listing food , how you found him , how he acts , what time of day do seizures happen?? etc i will check back and im sure others will come in soon.


i would say it is diet related or head injury and mbd

[Mars]

:wave123 :Welcome

I work with Homeopathy with my critters and some of what you describe is familiar to me. But I, too, will need more details. We need your eyes to see with and any details you can give may prove helpful. First question - have you noticed a trigger for the seizures? Something shiny? A change in bedding ( I thinking here of a reaction to soap, deterent ,solfener, or dryer sheets ). Do you use any kind of wood chips in his cage? Has he been chewing on anything unusal? Do you burn scented candles? Does someone smoke in your household?? Do you use non stick teflon cookware?? Do the seizure coinside with a time of day or event?

What, if anything, changed four monthes ago?? Did you bring something new into the house? It could be as simple as a new purfume or nail polish so please think carefully.

Ravenlaws32 questions are important and may give us a clue to what's going on.

The first suggestion I would make as we work to solve this mystery is to get your baby on a good porbiotic such as vanilla organic live cultured yogurt. This to help repair the damage to the gut flora the antibiotics have done. This will assist in removing one stress factor. Try to get him to consume at least a Tablespoon a day.

Hang in there. Hope to hear from you soon. :Welcome

[squirrelfriend]

This sounds a lot like Weebles' babies. they were very hyper. Would be very active and healthy then start breathing weird and heavy. They would stiffen up or start shaking or both. They would be very lathargic after their episode was over with their hair all puffed out.

Does yours ever get blood in the mouth too? mine did. I never did figure out what happened but all three from the same litter ended up this way. I would really like to know myself so that I can prevent it in the future as well.

[4skwerlz]

I hope some more of our TSB rehabbers will give you some ideas. But I think with a pet squirrel having seizures, it's best to assume it's Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). It's easy to treat. What is your squirrel's current diet exactly?

[Buddy'sMom]

:Welcome Carla! You are in the hands of our very experienced rehabbers who will help you sort out what is wrong with your little guy. Answers to their questions will help them help you. :thumbsup

In the meantime, though, increasing his calcium and sunlight would be helpful. Yogurt helps with that as well as countering the antibiotic effects:


.....The first suggestion I would make as we work to solve this mystery is to get your baby on a good probiotic such as vanilla organic live cultured yogurt. This to help repair the damage to the gut flora the antibiotics have done. This will assist in removing one stress factor. Try to get him to consume at least a Tablespoon a day....

FYI -- vanilla seems to be liked by many of the squirrels here, but you may need to try a few flavors before you find one he likes.

Also, the "sunlight" must be absolute direct sunlight -- outside or through an OPEN window -- not glass or screens, which block too much. If he doesn't go outside at all, you can get a FULL SPECTRUM light (AVA and AVB) or light bulbs. Available in pet stores in the reptile section or in hardware-type stores, etc. Just make sure its full spectrum. That will give him vitamin D to process the calcium -- VERY very important!

Hope you come back soon so the rehabbers (I am not one of them) can give you more detailed responses! :grouphug

[Buddy'sMom]

....a FULL SPECTRUM light (AVA and AVB) or light bulbs. ....

DUH! :shakehead Meant to type "UVA or UVB" --- no one will have heard of the other "type" of lightbulb! :D

[Secret Squirrel]

One word of caution if you have a sick squirrel putting it direct sunlight can overheat the squirrel. Sunlight is what the squirrel needs for Vit D....but just don't stick an already comprimized squirrel in the blistering sun...not even for 10 min. Use good judgment. :thumbsup
A cloudy day or full spectrum lighting would be better. FYI

[Buddy'sMom]

Ooops! Sorry! :thankyou Thanks for clarifying that SS! :thumbsup Certainly don't want to make things worse..... direct southern sunshine in July is probably pretty intense!

[LynninIN]

When he is off the antibiotic and the bowel movement gets dark is there any mucous in the stool?

[Mars]

Carla, Hi

I went back and reveiwed your original posts back in the spring. I'm guessing you went forward with increasing the calcuim and lighting at that point and have not seen improvement other than when on the antibiotics. I have a cat, who, as a kitten came in contact with a toxin. It elevated the proteins in his liver (as the liver was working over time to cleanse his system) this elevated protein caused seizures that were triggered by excitement playing with a shiny toy. They were very scary. Discovering and removing the toxin solved the problem and the seizures stopped. He's a big kitty now and healthy. I'm thinking something similiar is happening here. Something changed or came into the house 4 monthes ago that he is reacting to. A little detective work and we may be able to solve this. Plus we can do some supportive care such as cleasing the liver to remove the toxins and lower the stress level. What I have in mind is mild and safe and won't do any harm if I am on the wrong track. I may also be able to match your baby up with a Homeopathic remedy to ease the seizures if not stop them completely. But I need more details.

[ravenlaws32]

ive emailed and no response. anyone heard anything !!!!!????:dono :dono :dono

[Carla]

About the time Huey got sick, I put some leaves from outside in his cage.
We did clean out a shed and some things was burned close where the leaves were. A fan, tent, boxes, wood, rubber boots and maybe an old VCR was burned in that pile. I realize that's a no-no to burn those Items. Some mice
got into the shed and made nest in everything that I told you I burned.
It rained a lot that week. Later on I raked some oak leaves 5 feet from that area. Huey started to itch non stop and then he started having seizures real bad. The RX cures him for a month or so and only the seizures will come back. He was having 10 or so a day at first but now he may have 2 or 3 a day sometimes. He doesn't itch anymore. I feed him fresh fruit, sweet potato, watermellon, lima beans nuts in shell ,wheat bread, broccoli, pumpkin,
blueberries and some other fresh fruit. NO SALT. I purchased the special light for him and he gets 20 min. a day of outside sunlight. The only problem is I set the light on a timer and up until the seizures started I didn't realize that most of the time he would cover up when it came on. Also, I didn't put him out for sunlight very much. Maybe once or twice a week. Now, I put him out every day 20 minutes direct sunlight. I stopped using pumpkin spice candels and stopped spraying air freshner in my home. I started giving him Dannon Activia every day. I try to keep him from loud noises like the tv.
I do have a real wood burning fireplace but it's never bothered him before and he is not in the same room with the fireplace. Like I said earler, he did go a long time without the proper sunlight. He does real well most of the time. One month after the RX is over, he is seizure free, full of energy, full of play and strong as a bull. After that month, I will see him have a few seizures , he may go a few days with the seizures, not have them for a week and start having them again. I only give the rx when they get real bad and frequent. How do I give him calcium? He has a bone, but will not chew on it.

[4skwerlz]

How do I give him calcium? He has a bone, but will not chew on it.
Below is a list of foods according to how good they are as a calcium source. Since your squirrel may have MBD, you should try to give him the foods in the first list and some from the second list and see if that helps. Squirrels also need protein to metabolize calcium, so include some tofu, yogurt, or plain scrambled eggs. You can dip a nut in molasses; most squirrels will eat that with no problem. Calcium carbonate you can buy at a health food store or a drugstore. Vitamin C is also important for calcium absorption so see if he will eat the citrus. Natural sunlight or full-spectrum light is essential. No calcium can be absorbed without it. The squirrel can be in the shade if he's outside, as the light bounces off objects. Everyone recommends that Rodent Block should be a large part of a pet squirrel's diet. If Huey will eat it, great. Many adult squirrels will not.

CALCIUM IN SQUIRREL FOODS
(All lists are ordered from best to worst)

Emergency Calcium Supplementation for Squirrels with MBD
molasses
calcium carbonate or calcium glubonate powder
slice of orange or other citrus to aid calcium absorption
natural sunlight or a full-spectrum light (at least 30 min/day)

Best Calcium Sources (high-calcium/low-phosphorus)
collard greens, mustard spinach (not regular spinach), papaya, turnip greens, tofu (w/calcium sulfate, or Nigiri), fresh parsley, beet greens, dandelion greens, Chinese cabbage, looseleaf lettuce, figs (fresh), kale

Moderate Calcium Sources
yogurt (low-fat, plain or fruit flavored), chickory, dried figs, green cabbage, watercress, endive, grapes, celery, green beans, red cabbage, crabapple, garlic, radish, swiss chard, tofu (w/o calcium sulfate), pear, apple with skin, pineapple, winter squash, watermelon, honeydew melon, cucumber, cherry, romaine lettuce, strawberry, broccoli, apricot

Low Calcium Foods (Treats only)
brussels sprouts, cauliflower, carrots, cantaloupe, summer squash, apple, without skin, seedless raisins, almonds, pumpkin, zucchini, alfalfa sprouts, peach, asparagus, banana, sweet potatoes, walnuts, nuts of any kind

[Mars]

In the leaves that you burned could there have been any poison ivy, poison oak

http://www.survivaliq.com/survival/app-poisonous-plants-poison-ivy-and-poison-oak.htm

or possibly poison sumac??

http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/trees/tove.html

[Mars]

Thinking caps on people :D siezures cased by MBD would not respond positively to antibiotics. We have something else going on here. I'm leaning towards a toxin and an irritation/infection of the liver much like my kitty had as a kitten. Any other thoughts?? :thinking

Carla - I'm doing some research. Hang in there. Have you observed any other changes since this began? In appitite? Mood or additude?? breathing? Does he appear to be light sensitive?

[island rehabber]

Yes I am thinking there is some low-grade infection going on here that is kept at bay by the Rx but takes over within weeks of stopping it. I will hit my books, too, as I am not familiar with the particular symptoms of different parasitic infections, etc.....does anyone think bayliscaris worm would be a possibility here? Are there raccoons around?

[4skwerlz]

Guys, I still think MBD. For the seizures to be intermittent is common. The timing with the antibiotics (AB) could be coincidental, or as you know, many ABs have a mild anti-inflammatory effect. The changes in poo could simply be from the AB.

Look at Huey's diet:

I feed him fresh fruit, sweet potato, watermellon, lima beans nuts in shell ,wheat bread, broccoli, pumpkin,
blueberries and some other fresh fruit.
I see almost no calcium here, or protein for that matter. Also Carla tells us that the full-spectrum light she bought was on a timer and Huey was "hiding" from it whenever it came on, I assume by going inside his nest. And he only went outside once or twice a week, until just recently.

Basically, Huey's regimen up 'til now was a perfect recipe for MBD. What do you think?

[squirrellover195]

my 6 yr. old male grey squirrel started having seizures 4 months ago. I give him clavamox once a month for 7 days. This takes care of the problem for about 4 weeks and the seizures come back. When he is on clavamox his bowel movements are normal. when he gets sick, his movements are very dark almost black. only clavamox takes care of the problem, but only for a month at a time. He gets his sunlight each day and eats pretty good. I have even put ear mite rx. in his ears. Before he has a seizure, he will run like a jet in his cage, and start shaking and fall. He will breathe hard and gasp several times and then he will get up and get in his corner for a while. all I can say is, when he is on clavamox he is normal and full of life with no problems, but that only lasts for a month before he gets sick again. Any suggestions will help. I love this squirrel very much, he is a lot of fun when he isn't sick. Please help.
i dont know what help i can give about a squirrel with seizures but i think i know what could help make him more comfortable with disability. if this is a regular thiing then i suggest that yoiu make him as comfortable as he can be like more blankets or some special nuts that he likes. remember if this squirrel was in the wild he might of been dead by now with this like if he had a seizure in the middle of the road. the good thnhg is that he has you and that probly makes him feel alot better that he has someone he cares about that helps him out in his times of need.:Love_Icon :flash3

[Mars]

Guys, I still think MBD. For the seizures to be intermittent is common. The timing with the antibiotics (AB) could be coincidental, or as you know, many ABs have a mild anti-inflammatory effect. The changes in poo could simply be from the AB.

Look at Huey's diet:

I see almost no calcium here, or protein for that matter. Also Carla tells us that the full-spectrum light she bought was on a timer and Huey was "hiding" from it whenever it came on, I assume by going inside his nest. And he only went outside once or twice a week, until just recently.

Basically, Huey's regimen up 'til now was a perfect recipe for MBD. What do you think?

Yes, perhaps, but is that's what going on here? Seizures in MBD is one the last symtoms to appear. First is a weakness in the hind legs and tail as seen in Little Fart then a weakness in the front legs. Brittle bones and siezures appear in the advanced stages. SO I guess a good question for Carla - have you seen any weakness in the hind legs? You can view what we mean by viewing the videos of Little Fart in Mr Tilty's thread.

[Critter_Queen]

I'm thinking we are dealing with a combination of issues here. It's quite possible for MBD to lower the immune system during it's earlier stages, and maybe that is what is allowing whatever this toxin or infection is to continue to take over once the antibiotics are over with each time and therefore causing seizures from being overwhelmed by it.

I don't think "coon worms" are at play here. Generally speaking, this squirrel would be dead by now if that were what he had. I've seen terrible pictures of what that looks like, and antibiotics wouldn't even touch it. So I think we're safe there. But I'm not sure about other types of worms. I think it would be wise to dose this squirrel with ivermectin asap as a wormer and anti-parasitic as a first item on the list, followed by a blood workup to see if anything is out of place (anybody know normal levels???????) that would indicate liver problems or things of that nature.

I think your guy needs to have the FS light on during all natural daylight hours at this point. You can get one at a Home Improvement store (Lowes, Home Depot, Menards, etc) that uses next to nothing for energy so it won't cost you much more than the bulb to do.

I agree that a diet change is in order here. Leafy greens, broccoli, kale...and see if you can find a product called PRiME at your local pet store. It's in a small box in the bird department. It's got all kinds of great stuff in it for a nutrient-deficient squirrel. :thumbsup

[Mars]

The proper blood levels can be found in this article

http://www.jwildlifedis.org/cgi/reprint/12/3/349

[Critter_Queen]

VERY COOL, Mars!! :bowdown

[4skwerlz]

What CQ said. Thanks Mars for the link. FWIW, I think CQ is correct to try a multi-faceted approach and see what works. It really doesn't sound like any ONE disease could cause all the symptoms.

[Critter_Queen]

Oh, and cheerios are ok for squirrels, too, as long as they are just a part of the diet...don't give too much because they're fortified for humans, not squirrels. :) But all my critters love cheerios...

[Mars]

Carla are you working with a vet on this or are you on your own? The reason I ask is if you could show the vet the artical on blood levels he could test and get a picture of the amount of stress on your baby's liver. And if you could get a stool sample tested for blood content. It has been suggested off thread that the infection may be in the GI tract and that the black stool is blood. The other possiblity is that it is bile from the liver. Knowing which would be helpful.

If on the other hand you do not have a vet, which is very often the case with squirrels, I still think we can help. I'm thinking of a product I use to "clean" the liver. This will help lower the stress on the organ and help if there has been a toxin. I am researching a homeopathic remedy to help control the seizures (I have two in mind and your answers to pior questions should help me decide between the two :) ). Then working to increase the calcuim and protien ( perhaps a bioled egg in the shell) in the diet. I saw where you are feeding yogurt - this will provide probiotics to help protect GI tract and increase absorbtion of nutrients. About a tablespoon daily helps. But you must be consistent with this as it takes time to rebuild the gut flora.

If any of this feels right to you let me know and I will send you more infomation by PM.

[LynninIN]

The proper blood levels can be found in this article

http://www.jwildlifedis.org/cgi/reprint/12/3/349
:thankyou I've been looking all over for this.

[Gabe]

Carla, I have a few questions for you also.
When the stool is black, is it little black pellets, black and pastey or black and watery?

[Mars]

Has anyone heard from Carla?? :dono I seen no response by post or PM. Hoping soneone else has contact.

[Critter_Queen]

I haven't seen or heard from her. I hope the squirrel is ok...

[ravenlaws32]

have not heard a word.:poke :thinking :dono