SCARED

[Crazymaizey]

Hi guys this is my first time raising a squirrel, my eastern fox is about 4 months had her since she was a pink ball, I think I have done great with diet etc... Wednesday I thought she was choking because she was eating a nut then she got her nails caught in a shirt on the floor and her whole body stiffed up and she like was kinda like gagging her body looked like it was dry heaving not as much shaking like a seizure, so I helped her and did a somewhat squirrel hiemlich and blew a little in her mouth and she came to. now just an hour ago she did it again, this time much scarier her arms were parallel with her body shooting up completely stiff and her head contracted back to her shoulders and her body fooled a little at her waist and her but was in the air and her back legs out to the sides all completely flexed like Rigamortis. i spoke with my boyfriend about the first incident and he said it sound like a heart attack and if it happened again to put her on back/side. So i put her on her side and she finally stopped after a min and a half. she ran away and kinda hid fro me which isn't normal and now she is passed out when usually she would be harassing me this time of day. this is really scary for me because I do not have a local vet, I took her to the exotic conejo valley vet clinic when I first had her just because my friends were harassing me she had rabies(lol) but because they are illegal pet here the vet old me she didn't know really anything so I am hesitant to take her there again. writing this post I am realizing I should be taking her anyways to the vet but I am nervous to due to the law. If anyone is in the Los Angeles/socal area and has any recommendations on vets I would love the help, she is precious and has become such a friend of ours its really hard for me to watch her like this. note all other times she is totally a energetic healthy squirrel. I understand I made the selfish decision in keeping her when my friend found her orphaned because we do not have a close vet but i couldn't let her die she is a bundle of joy. she was eating an almond before this incident happened, nothing irregular.

thanks in advance

[HRT4SQRLS]

Sorry you're in this scary situation. Let's start with the basics. What exactly are you feeding her? This is critical information. Seizures are often diet related.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Please let us know about the diet or maybe you just need to refresh your screen. The number one cause of seizures in squirrels is due to Metabolic Bone Disease which is caused by low calcium. A diet of nuts and seeds will cause MBD. It causes seizures and hindend paralysis. It can be treated. Let us know ASAP. We can help you.

[HRT4SQRLS]

maizey, I sure wish you would come back. We might be able to help you.
As far as I know there are almost no vets that will see squirrels in California for the public. I'm sure there are some but they haven't been mentioned here.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I'm sorry that you left the board. Before I leave this thread I want to post some links that might help you.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?32122-MBD-Treatment



The first link is the healthy diet for pet squirrels. If you're following a healthy diet, there are other causes for seizures like head trauma.

The second link is the treatment protocol for Metabolic Bone Disease. If the diet has been deficient I would recommend that you start the treatment protocol immediately. Metabolic Bone Disease can be successfully treated. Without treatment, it is fatal. :(

I hope I didn't offend you. The reason we are so adamant about the diet is because MBD is the most common problem we see on this board. Literally, we see it on a daily basis. In every case it was well intentioned people that sincerely thought they were doing the right thing. Good luck to you. Fox squirrels are awesome.

[Nancy in New York]

I sent this member a pm and an email telling them that help is here,
and to please come back on the board.

[Crazymaizey]

I am still looking at stuff online for help and didn't have the board open :/ sorry! she does not show a lot of those symptoms of MDB but the seizure thing is making me believe it is, will they have seizures before loosing hind leg mobility because her mobility is fine. she has what I thought a high calcium diet, I think I might of taken her off the milk too early though? no offense taken, I am ignorant to this even though I have tried to read so much (really happy I just signed up for this board). I am going to read the link you left, I saw that if she is MDB its good to crush tum tums and put them on her(maizey) food ? is this a good idea? she is 100% normal now but i know something is wrong. thank you for the quick response and dedication !

[Crazymaizey]

I have noticed she is super picky and won't eat veggies/greens if she has nut/fruit so I have cut back on fruits and nuts but that was like a two weeks ago maybe it had a lasting effect on her? :(

[Diggie's Friend]

Hi guys this is my first time raising a squirrel, my eastern fox is about 4 months had her since she was a pink ball, I think I have done great with diet etc... Wednesday I thought she was choking because she was eating a nut then she got her nails caught in a shirt on the floor and her whole body stiffed up and she like was kinda like gagging her body looked like it was dry heaving not as much shaking like a seizure, so I helped her and did a somewhat squirrel hiemlich and blew a little in her mouth and she came to. now just an hour ago she did it again, this time much scarier her arms were parallel with her body shooting up completely stiff and her head contracted back to her shoulders and her body fooled a little at her waist and her but was in the air and her back legs out to the sides all completely flexed like Rigamortis. i spoke with my boyfriend about the first incident and he said it sound like a heart attack and if it happened again to put her on back/side. So i put her on her side and she finally stopped after a min and a half. she ran away and kinda hid fro me which isn't normal and now she is passed out when usually she would be harassing me this time of day. this is really scary for me because I do not have a local vet, I took her to the exotic conejo valley vet clinic when I first had her just because my friends were harassing me she had rabies(lol) but because they are illegal pet here the vet old me she didn't know really anything so I am hesitant to take her there again. writing this post I am realizing I should be taking her anyways to the vet but I am nervous to due to the law. If anyone is in the Los Angeles/socal area and has any recommendations on vets I would love the help, she is precious and has become such a friend of ours its really hard for me to watch her like this. note all other times she is totally a energetic healthy squirrel. I understand I made the selfish decision in keeping her when my friend found her orphaned because we do not have a close vet but i couldn't let her die she is a bundle of joy. she was eating an almond before this incident happened, nothing irregular.

thanks in advance


Check your PM in a few minutes, I'm in this area also.

[cava]

Are you feeding a rodent block along with her veggies, fruit and nuts? If not, she needs this first. It has the nutrients she needs, then if she's eating this she can have veggies. Fruit and nut ONLY as a treat but no nuts at all while you are treating for MBD.

We can help you get her back on the correct diet even if she protests, which she will.

[Crazymaizey]

Ugh reading the info on MBD reading a cause if weaning off milk too early I feel really guilty I am currently adding a little less then the said amount to her food. Also I raised her on Esbilac is this a cause?

[Crazymaizey]

Are you feeding a rodent block along with her veggies, fruit and nuts? If not, she needs this first. It has the nutrients she needs, then if she's eating this she can have veggies. Fruit and nut ONLY as a treat but no nuts at all while you are treating for MBD.

We can help you get her back on the correct diet even if she protests, which she will.

thank you, no I have no fed her blocks I read somewhere that rodent blocks of some sort will do so I got her a habit one high in calcium but thats it, What brand can I buy her of block? a lot of my local pet shops don't have more like 'rodent treats' and seed feed. She is eating some squash now is that okay?

I feel really bad about this she seemed so healthy thank you guy soooooo much

[LR]

Diggie you not only have a good brain that you use well, you have a heart of of gold too!

[Diggie's Friend]

Do you have some organic maple syrup, or dark molasses erhaps. Next time she has a seisure, fi she does, put your pinkie into the syrup and put it behind her front teeth on he tongue; be careful though as hse may end up biting you by accident. I have some handling gloves that are ceramic here and I'm nearby. I had a foxer for over 11 years. I also have some magnesium that supports calming down the brain with seisures. I have the powdered calcium taht will work for this issue as well. If you want to meet PM me I'm Diggies Friend, and presently available this weekend.

[Mel1959]

It will probably be difficult to get her to take a block, but it’s imperative that she learn to eat one or block ground up and made into boo balls. Boo balls are ground block mixed with some ground nuts to make them tastier and then powdered formula, baby food, coconut oil and a little calcium carbonate powder. There are lots of variations of the recipe in the nutrition section of this forum. Many folks have also had good luck feeding Henry’s Healthy Blocks ordered online from Henrys Pets.

[Jen413]

Mine go nuts over their version of boo balls. They get Henry’s blocks too but I take regular rodent block, applesauce, a touch of coconut oil, powdered formula, and nuts. Put it all in a blender and grind it into a paste then form it into balls. Leave in the fridge over night then freeze. If it’s mbd you may need to leave the nuts out? I’ll defer to the more experienced on that but figured I’d mention what I do with mine.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Maizey, they don't always have all of the symptoms of MBD initially. They can have seizures without paralysis OR paralysis without seizures. Eventually they will have both. Without treatment and a change in diet it is always fatal. Metabolic Bone Disease doesn't develop overnight but the symptoms can and often do develop overnight. It is very common for a poster to say..."he/she was fine this morning and now he is seizing or paralysed". In MBD the bones are very fragile so be very careful with him, especially jumping. Just as MBD doesn't develop overnight, it isn't cured overnight either. It takes time to rebuild the bones. Amazingly, the serious symptoms like seizures and paralysis can resolve quickly with treatment but this doesn't mean it's cured. Depending on the severity of the MBD, it can take months to reverse completely.

There is more to a healthy diet than just the calcium intake. The body has a critical balance between calcium and phosphorus. Foods that are high in phosphorus like nuts, corn and seeds will cause calcium to be leeched from the bones to achieve this balance. This is what causes MBD. Because of this problem, high phosphorus foods like nuts are given only in very limited amounts. They are given only as treats, not as a part of the diet. Actually, baby squirrels shouldn't get nuts at all. Nuts to a squirrel are like crack to an addict. They will never eat anything else when a nut is on the plate. They will be totally satisfied to eat the nuts and walk away from the rest of the food.

One thing that would be helpful is to see if he will take formula again. You mentioned Esbilac. The powdered puppy Esbilac with probiotics and prebiotics is a good formula. The canned liquid Esbilac is NOT good. That would help a lot. NO MORE NUTS while you are treating for MBD. I would start the MBD protocol ASAP. It is critical. Sprinkling Tums on the food won't be enough. You need to follow the protocol and megadose calcium per the protocol. It is literally a matter life and death. The good news is that MBD can be successfully treated. Unfortunately you have a picky eater on your hands. He will hold out for nuts but you have to use tough love to change the eating habits.

One more thing regarding the calcium and phosphorus. The body needs 2 parts calcium to one part phosphorus. I am including a link with the Ca: P ratio of different foods. The best foods are 2:1 (Ca: P). Looks at nuts or seeds and you will see why they are so bad. Look at pine nuts.... :eek

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=67967&d=1232419601

I always like to include this information because I think it explains the problem and when there is an understanding of the cause of MBD, the solution is embraced.

[Diggie's Friend]

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?17680-Emergency-Treatment-for-MBD-(Updated-3-31-09)&p=403380#post403380

I read through all the posts on this thread, and I fully agree with HRT4SQRLS, follow the MBD protocol. Use the maple syrup or molasses as a support to this, but know it won't heal your girl, only may help to control the seisures, not address the cause of them. Seeing a Vet ASAP but not waiting to do this treatment is the best choice. From what you wrote of not feeding block at all, very likely a blood test will confirm low calcium and MBD, even so I hope it doesn't. The Vet should also check her blood sugar levels, even so the molasses might through that off, so let them know about giving a tiny drop of molasses or maple sugar, during a seisure to help stop it, and twice a day AM & PM.

Thank you again for caring enough to rescue this squirrel, and for seeking knowledgable support; we are here to help! DF

[HRT4SQRLS]

While we are always willing and thankful for the assistance of a vet, I would caution you about taking a MBD squirrel to a vet at this time. I would wait 2 weeks before considering a vet. Of course, that would be after 2 weeks of calcium treatment per the protocol. The reason I caution you is because a MBD squirrel is very fragile both metabolically and physically (brittle bones). Stress is a very bad thing for a MBD squirrel. Extreme stress can actually cause death in an animal suffering from MBD.
Seizures involve involuntary contract of muscles. Keep in mind that the heart is also a muscle. On this board there have been MBD squirrels that have passed from the stress at the vet. Sometimes scary procedures like restraint, blood drawing or anaesthsia for X-rays are too much for their compromised body. Two weeks of calcium therapy will help stabilize (not cure) the MBD so at that point it would be much safer to visit a vet.

The glucose (molasses, honey, syrup) under the tongue that is recommended after a seizure will help bring the glucose levels back up as the seizure depletes the glucose.

X-rays of an animal with MBD show bones that are very thin. Smaller bones in the feet are sometimes nearly invisible. In some cases the ribs are difficult to see on X-ray due to thinning. While MBD is similar to osteoporosis in humans it is much more complex in small animals. It is indeed a metabolic syndrome in addition to fragile bones. The low calcium in the blood (when severe enough) will cause the seizures which is classic for Metabolic Bone Disease. This is why we always ask about the diet when seizures are present. The number one cause of seizures in squirrels by far is MBD with others causes (head trauma, epilepsy) being a distant number 2.

[Diggie's Friend]

I don't know where she went, I thought t leave this for her on her thread incase she comes back, and let he rknow we are for her caring for and keeping her dear friend. DF


Emergency Treatment for MBD

Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW. Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:

--Tums or calcium pills (any kind)
--a syringe, eyedropper, or spoon

Crush one Tums or calcium pill and add a little water or fruit juice. Use the syringe, eyedropper, or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone. Feed a total of 600-800 mg of calcium, and spread it out through the day and night to keep his blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

If the squirrel is having seizures, weakness, or paralysis, the symptoms will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones.



https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?17680-Emergency-Treatment-for-MBD-(Updated-3-31-09)&p=403380#post403380