URI/Regurgitation

[EileenH]

Hello all! I'm looking for some help.

I have a group of 3 babies; 1 is much smaller than the other 2 and the other 2 are doing fine. This little one was doing fine for the first few days that I had her - gaining weight eating well, all fine. One day I noticed she was pushing the syringe away, not wanting to eat and her weight was stuck (128g). I started her on Panacur, but the next day noticed a little sneeze here and there, so I started her on Baytril - first dose was on Thursday. Friday, the sneezing was worse and she doesn't want to be syringe fed - pushes it away. I am able to get it into her but she will regurgitate some when I put her down.
This not is an aspiration issue, as she never aspirated.

Today she had a big weight loss - down to 121g! and she just feels really thin/light to me. She is eating a little on her own but not enough to make up for fighting the syringe feeding.

She is on Esbilac; body temperature is fine, poop is fine. I just gave her SQ fluids as she was a little dehydrated, which I will keep doing.

A secondary question - I have injectable Baytril - I'm thinking i should switch from PO Baytril to SQ Baytril - since she does regurgitate a little after eating, some of the Baytril could be in that,no? I know that is crucial for her, so maybe I'll switch to that. She is still sneezy and sounds congested.

Other than Baytril, is there anything else I can do? I'm sure she doesn't want to eat because she is having problems breathing.

[UDoWhat]

Hi and welcome to TSB. :Welcome

I need a little more info so we can try to figure out what's going on here. I'm going to ask you some questions hoping you'll be able to answer those for me.

What kind of squirrels are they?

How long have you had them?

What are you feeding them?


How old do you think they are?


What are the weights on the other two squirrels?

Do you hear any clicking in her chest, even faint clicking? Sometimes they can aspirate even if you haven't seen anything come out of their nose.

I definitely would switch to the injectable Baytril if you think she is not getting the full dose.

I need to go feed babies now but I'll be back in a while to see if we can't help you figure this out.

Thanks. :Love_Icon

[EileenH]

Thank you for your help!

They are Eastern Gray Squirrels. The other 2 are much bigger (198g and 202g) - they have gained steadily while this one seems stuck at 128-130g.

I have had them since 9/22, so about a week? They are about 6-7 weeks old, I think.

I am feeding them Esbilac with a Miracle nipple and a 3cc syringe. I just started feeding her with a 1cc syringe - smaller amounts and slowly but it didn't seem to make much of a difference. She also regurgitates after eating. I did read some of the threads on that and it says it could be ingestion of poison but she has not been out of the carrier since I have had her. The only nuts they have gotten were fresh from the supermarket (not frozen, hence the threat of mold).
She does eat on her own too.

She is sneezing and it's not so much clicking - sounds more congested. I did start her on Baytril as soon as I noticed her turning down food and the first sign of a sneeze. Today is day 3 on Baytril and I don't see much improvement, which is why I think I am going to go to injectable.

[Nancy in New York]

Just another question on the formula. Is this the powdered puppy formula?
The one pictured below?
If so are you mixing it with 1 part powdered formula to 2 parts HOT water and letting
it sit for a while in the refrig to dissolve? We find that works better when making it ahead
of time, and letting it sit, and whisking often.
I'm wonder if for some reason the formula isn't agreeing with her and perhaps she needs
to be on the GM formula.
We had a member here once whose little squirrel had an allery to formula. Let me
direct CritterMom to this thread she can tell you more about Keetz's little one.
How much are you feeding each time and how many times daily does she eat?

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VTCXht8/0/d17c683d/O/i-VTCXht8.jpg

[EileenH]

Yes. Plus it is the same powder that I have raised several other litters with without a hitch.

[Nancy in New York]

Yes. Plus it is the same powder that I have raised several other litters with without a hitch.

Perfect. But there could be a problem with this formula not agreeing with HER.
I reached out to a member whose friend had a squirrel and NO formula agreed with his little tummy.
Hopefully she will be on soon with details.

[EileenH]

I don't think it is that.. her poop is fine - it is mostly the respiratory issues. I think she regurgitates because she can't breathe well.

Thanks for your thoughts though.. I appreciate it!

[UDoWhat]

Yes. Plus it is the same powder that I have raised several other litters with without a hitch.

So glad you're using the powder kind of Esbilac. :w00t Just a warning nuts from the store aren't necessarily safe either. We don't know how they have been stored. If they have been in and out of cold storage or even frozen once. We have seen our fair share of nuts from the store that have caused trouble with squirrels. So do be careful with that. Also they really should be introduced to a good rodent block first before they have any kind of nuts. We find that if they are not eating rodent block solidly before they are introduced to other solid foods you will have a heck of a time trying to get them to eat properly. Since I suspect these babies will be over wintered you really have to be careful about their diet or they will be susceptible to metabolic bone disease. MBD is the number one killer of captive squirrels. Even though you are planning to release these babies in the spring they will be with you a number of months ( middle to late April) before they can go out. Please check out our forum section on MBD. This is just information for the future after we look at what's happening with your little one.

Now..... let's try to address what might be going on with your little one. I have to tell you this one is a tough one. Do you have a veterinarian that might be able to do some imaging to help determine what might be happening with this little baby? I am wondering if there could be a problem with her throat or esophagus, a genetic defect of some kind? We had a baby one time that had something stuck in her throat and it kept pushing the formula back out through her nose. Our vet was able to dislodge the object and she was fine. Did you give her Panacur because you thought worms could be the problem? Have you done a follow up dose? Did you worm the other two siblings? Worms could be a problem but the other 2 babies don't seem to be effected. However, if she is more compromised, worms could be a bigger problem for her.

The sneezing concerns me. There have been some strange respiratory issues going around. The Baytril has had plenty of time to work so I'm thinking it is not helping. The respiratory issue that we are seeing has responded better to doxycycline. I would switch her to doxycycline. Three days on Baytril you should have seen a change in her respiratory issues by now. Also some people dealing with the respiratory issues have been using Metacam to help with sinus inflammation.

l would like to know more about the regurgitation. Does it happen after every meal? After every dose of Baytril? Does feeding her smaller amounts of formula more often help at all? Let me know if the injectable Baytril works better and she doesn't regurgitate after eating. If her nose is congested she may not be able to smell the formula and that may be why she isn't interested in eating. If you see any change in her nasal discharge, turning thick and white stringy then you should immediately start the Doxy. There is a product that can be used for nose congestion. It is infant Afrin. It can be purchased over-the-counter. The brand I use is called Little noses. You use one small drop of infant Afrin each nostril two times per day. Is suggested to use only three days.

I rarely suggest this, are you able to tube feed? That may be a last resort you might want to try. I am hoping others will jump in with any ideas or suggestions particularly those who have dealt with the respiratory thing.

[EileenH]

The reason I started with Panacur is that the first sign that she was off was the fact that her weight was stagnant for a few days, and then she started pushing the food away - there were no signs of anything respiratory. I'm not up to the time for the follow-up dose.

I don't think it is the nuts - my feeling is that for whatever reason she regurgitated, that could have caused the aspiration. I once had a rabbit (domestic) that had a genetic defect in his palate - there was nothing surgically that could be done. He lived for years like that but after he passed away I had a necropsy done and he had aspiration pneumonia from his regurgitation - but in bunny fashion, there were 0 signs - as prey animals they hide everything until it is too late.

I just fed her 4cc's, very slowly, in a 1 cc syringe (0.10cc's at a time) and as of right now it looks like she kept it down. Before this feeding, she had been regurgitating at every feeding for the past day and a half - whether it was with the Baytril dose or not, so it's not that that upset her stomach.

I have heard that there is a respiratory thing going around. I do have a vet that I work with and will get her into them. But of course, they are not open on Sundays, and I didn't want to wait until tomorrow if there was something I can do today.

I'm SQ'ing fluids, she is warm...but she feels so darn thin today.

I hadn't thought about Metacam - that's a good thought. Also good idea about the Afrin. The only nasal discharge I see is clear.

I'll keep you posted on how we do at the next feeding. I appreciate your help...

[UDoWhat]

Perfect. But there could be a problem with this formula not agreeing with HER.
I reached out to a member whose friend had a squirrel and NO formula agreed with his little tummy.
Hopefully she will be on soon with details.

Yes, Nancy is exactly right. :w00t I meant to suggest this earlier. I too have had squirrels that were not able to tolerate Esbilac. We do have a temporary goat milk formula that is easy to digest that you may want to try. ( not goats milk Esbilac) I will wait to give you the recipe until the other member has had a chance to respond and may have a better idea about formulas.

I am hoping that the member that Nancy has reached out to will be able to help here. There is a collective wealth of knowledge and experience here at TSB . What one member hasn't seen another member has experienced and has the knowledge to be able to help.

I will check back later because ... you guested get it ....it's time to feed again. :grin3

Yes continue to SQ fluids. I don't think it's the nuts either. What do you think about trying the doxycycline? I'll be back to address other issues later. Please do keep us posted.

[CritterMom]

I was also thinking about trying the doxycycline.

Children's Benadryl may also help with drying up the congestion. I would imagine that eating while badly congested while being a little animal that does not breathe through it's mouth very well is difficult and frightening and may even be exacerbating the regurgitation reflex.

[Nancy in New York]

I am hoping that the member that Nancy has reached out to will be able to help here. There is a collective wealth of knowledge and experience here at TSB . What one member hasn't seen another member has experienced and has the knowledge to be able to help.



:) Well I heard from her and she said:

"He JUST had nonstop diarrhea - there was no vomiting or regurgitating.
And the allergy thing was just an assumption since he got better with solid foods."

So in my opinion, it still could have been the formula that gave him non stop diarrhea. :dono

[EileenH]

I was also thinking about trying the doxycycline.

Children's Benadryl may also help with drying up the congestion. I would imagine that eating while badly congested while being a little animal that does not breathe through it's mouth very well is difficult and frightening and may even be exacerbating the regurgitation reflex.

I'm fine with trying Doxy - I'll call the vet tomorrow and try to get some; shouldn't be a problem. And yes!!! I completely agree that her struggle is trying to eat while being congested is probably aggravating it.

OK - I will get my hands on Doxy tomorrow and try Children's Benadryl.

Thank you all!!

[cava]

I didn't catch it anywhere but did you mention her poops? Is her belly sore or bloated?

[UDoWhat]

I'm fine with trying Doxy - I'll call the vet tomorrow and try to get some; shouldn't be a problem. And yes!!! I completely agree that her struggle is trying to eat while being congested is probably aggravating it.

OK - I will get my hands on Doxy tomorrow and try Children's Benadryl.

Thank you all!!

Also infant Afrin will open her nasal passages in a matter of seconds.

[UDoWhat]

I also wanted to mention the Goats Milk Formula recipe. It is tried and true on this board. I am posting this so just in case you want to give it a try if things don't clear up once her sinuses clear up.

3 parts Goats Milk
1 part full fat vanilla yogurt (Such as yobaby)
1 part heavy cream
Mix well and feed warm. This temporary formula can be used at least 2 weeks and longer if needed in certain situations.

Walmart carries fresh, canned and powdered Goats Milk. Most health food stores do too. Fresh GM can be frozen in handy portions.

When I say "part" an example would be something like :
3 Tbs GM
1 Tbs yogurt
1 Tbs cream
Or any "part" you want to use.

If her stools get soft you can cut the cream out and add it back a teaspoon or less at a time.

Have a good night. We will all be anxious to hear how she is doing after any changes you make. :Love_Icon

[EileenH]

I didn't catch it anywhere but did you mention her poops? Is her belly sore or bloated?

Poops are fine; belly is not bloated or sore.

[EileenH]

I also wanted to mention the Goats Milk Formula recipe. It is tried and true on this board. I am posting this so just in case you want to give it a try if things don't clear up once her sinuses clear up.

3 parts Goats Milk
1 part full fat vanilla yogurt (Such as yobaby)
1 part heavy cream
Mix well and feed warm. This temporary formula can be used at least 2 weeks and longer if needed in certain situations.

Walmart carries fresh, canned and powdered Goats Milk. Most health food stores do too. Fresh GM can be frozen in handy portions.

When I say "part" an example would be something like :
3 Tbs GM
1 Tbs yogurt
1 Tbs cream
Or any "part" you want to use.

If her stools get soft you can cut the cream out and add it back a teaspoon or less at a time.

Have a good night. We will all be anxious to hear how she is doing after any changes you make. :Love_Icon


Thank you for this! I'll keep you posted.

[EileenH]

Hello there!

Update - I think she feels a little better. She is still sneezy and congested but I have not seen her vomit anymore and she gained weight. I am feeding very slowly (0.10cc's at a time) in a 1 cc syringe x 4-6 cc's. Though she is still sick, she seems less miserable and sits up to groom.

So, I will keep doing what I am doing - I did move to injectable Baytril so now I know she is getting it all, and I added Metacam last night.

Thanks for all of your help and I will keep you posted. Fingers crossed for an even better day tomorrow.

[UDoWhat]

Hello there!

Update - I think she feels a little better. She is still sneezy and congested but I have not seen her vomit anymore and she gained weight. I am feeding very slowly (0.10cc's at a time) in a 1 cc syringe x 4-6 cc's. Though she is still sick, she seems less miserable and sits up to groom.

So, I will keep doing what I am doing - I did move to injectable Baytril so now I know she is getting it all, and I added Metacam last night.

Thanks for all of your help and I will keep you posted. Fingers crossed for an even better day tomorrow.

GREAT!, :w00t This is so good to hear :dance I will look for your updates. Happy Day!