Underdeveloped baby

[Edillan]

Hi, I am new here and new to threads, but I was hoping I could get some advice. I have a 5 week old male eastern gray squirrel that is the size of a 3 week old. I was given a litter of 3 to care for when they were roughly a week old, I believe them to be born the first week of august. I raised them on goat milk but was not happy with the results so I was recommended to add yogurt and heavy cream. The best heat source I had was a folded electric blanket and a rice sock, so we struggled to maintain proper temps. 2 passed away due to dehydration the day of the eclipse. I immediately ordered a constant heat source and did as much research as possible. I ordered Fox valley formula and have finally made the gradual switch (over almost a week's time) to full strength Thursday night. I was able to get a bag of ringers from the vet (2nd baby died in their parking lot) and keep the last baby going, but we've been battling dehydration. I've got his little body figured out now and can tend to his needs more efficiently but I'm still worried whether underdeveloped babies make it or not. I've decided he lets himself get too warm is the problem even though I provide enough room to get away from the low heat. I'm about at my wits end finding the balance so he doesn't get cold. I'm giving him ringers orally occassionally in between feedings and I just introduced him to a very low water bottle last night. He did use it but the cold water doesn't appeal to him. Also he gained 8 grams in 36 hours after the full switch! Sorry it's so scattered I'm just trying to get it all in and I'm using my boyfriends phone and it types weird lol if anyone has any advice please comment. I ordered Henry's healthy pet blocks for baby squirrels today also. Expecting it this week. One more concern I have is a occasional nose click. He usually clears it with a sneeze and it went away for a while after I fed him a few drops of colloidal silver and dabbled his nose with it. But today it came back during a ringers feeding that seemed normal. Sometimes I wonder if when he tries to just throat guzzle he mildly aspirates himself? He will go long stretches without me hearing it so its not terribly concerning. I'm also aware there could be nasal irritants living in laundery and plastic and whatnot.

[Nancy in New York]

Hi, I am new here and new to threads, but I was hoping I could get some advice. I have a 5 week old male eastern gray squirrel that is the size of a 3 week old. I was given a litter of 3 to care for when they were roughly a week old, I believe them to be born the first week of august. I raised them on goat milk but was not happy with the results so I was recommended to add yogurt and heavy cream. The best heat source I had was a folded electric blanket and a rice sock, so we struggled to maintain proper temps. 2 passed away due to dehydration the day of the eclipse. I immediately ordered a constant heat source and did as much research as possible. I ordered Fox valley formula and have finally made the gradual switch (over almost a week's time) to full strength Thursday night. I was able to get a bag of ringers from the vet (2nd baby died in their parking lot) and keep the last baby going, but we've been battling dehydration. I've got his little body figured out now and can tend to his needs more efficiently but I'm still worried whether underdeveloped babies make it or not. I've decided he lets himself get too warm is the problem even though I provide enough room to get away from the low heat. I'm about at my wits end finding the balance so he doesn't get cold. I'm giving him ringers orally occassionally in between feedings and I just introduced him to a very low water bottle last night. He did use it but the cold water doesn't appeal to him. Also he gained 8 grams in 36 hours after the full switch! Sorry it's so scattered I'm just trying to get it all in and I'm using my boyfriends phone and it types weird lol if anyone has any advice please comment. I ordered Henry's healthy pet blocks for baby squirrels today also. Expecting it this week. One more concern I have is a occasional nose click. He usually clears it with a sneeze and it went away for a while after I fed him a few drops of colloidal silver and dabbled his nose with it. But today it came back during a ringers feeding that seemed normal. Sometimes I wonder if when he tries to just throat guzzle he mildly aspirates himself? He will go long stretches without me hearing it so its not terribly concerning. I'm also aware there could be nasal irritants living in laundery and plastic and whatnot.

Which Fox Valley formula are you using.
What does this little one weigh.
How much does he take at each feeding, and how
often are you feeding?
What sized syringe are you using, and do you use a nipple.
Sorry for so many questions, it will help us determine the problem.
Do you have any antibiotics. The prefereed ones for aspiration pneumonia
if that's what he has is Baytril (animal ab.) Cipro (Human ab.) Clavamox or Augmentin

Can you post a picture of him?
What kind of container is he in now?

[Edillan]

Fox valley 4 weeks and older
He weighs 50g
He eats 2cc aprox. Every 3-4hrs no night
I fill 2 1cc syringes and warm them together in a fold top baggie in a cup of warm water and use a small nipple
No antibiotics, only the colloidal silver
Cannot post pics at this time
He was in a plastic tub deal with holes in the lid but I've switched him to a clean! bird cage. it works nice because I can stick his heat to the bottom and he now has 1 inch of air space.. he can still get warm and comfy if he's covered well but if not he is chilly (so I made a tiny triangle house for him).
Also I know it isn't pneumonia because he would already be dead.. the clicking is only in his nose, not his chest. And it's intermitten. Maybe more airflow will help.
Another concern I'm having is that he is so tipsy. When he wants to crawl somewhere he can, but when he is looking up and around, or if I bump his cage putting my arm inside, he topples over.. his eyes opened last monday.. but other than that he seems as though he is 3 weeks, not 5 going on 6. He looks like a healthy 3 week old other than being so wobbly. He's getting good at climbing and turning around and stuff.

[Edillan]

He would probably like to take more at a feeding but I would rather not max him out, id prefer to squeeze in one more feeding than have him feeling like a sick piggie for hours. I notice at times his body metabolizes more on the 4 hour range than the 3 hour range. He's still getting used to the new formula but I think it's really good for him. He needs the weight. I can't believe babies his age eat 9-11cc! He was only 4 inches without the tail when I measured him last week. Hes not even an emaciated version of his age.. just looks younger. His fur isn't even full yet. It's still fine and thin on his body. Sorry I can't post a pic. Idk if this is my fault or if he was predisposed to being smaller, but I doubt it.

[Edillan]

Ugh may have made it sound like he's got head trauma and is all dizzy and sideways and stuff and he's not :) he's just.... wimpy?

[Nancy in New York]

I am going to send you my email address in a pm.
IF you want, send me some pictures and I will post them on
the board so we can see what's going on with your little one.

[Rocky1]

My apologies in advance if you are way beyond this level, but below is a link to some information that I found very helpful. Regardless, please keep us posted and don't hesitate to ask questions.


https://www.henryspets.com/baby-squirrel-care/

[redwuff]

How is your baby.

[Edillan]

He is small but he is still doing well.. I now get up in the night and give him about .5cc of water, then again first thing in the morning. I notice if he doesn't need it he won't take much. I had a funeral yesterday, that's why I haven't responded. I gave him 2.5cc of formula yesterday since he's been eager for more after 3hrs and he's up to 54g. It went well so he has been having 2.5-2.75 every 4 hrs since then and urination and defication are normal. He is happy.. happy to snuggle and he's been climbing over his triangle hut this morning. I put an upside down shallow basket in his cage to climb on. I just hope he isn't too far behind to thrive. His hair is so scant, I feel bad. But I've noticed his tail bush out since the new formula. I have tried to share photos with no success. He looks like a 3 week old. That the best I can tell. I've read every manual and recommendation I could find with a wide range of suggestions so I have been following the modern care techniques, not the old backwoods crap lol I think I am doing fairly well because I know the little guy should have died by now and I've only been able to give him just enough care to get by. He is fattening up, and now that I know only formula isn't an option for this little guy I think we can do better. I notice when he lags in hydration he seems to almost thin down in a day. So I'm going to be vigilant and not treat it as an isolated event, but rather mandatory maintainance.

[Edillan]

Also I've been rubbing him with olive oil and it keeps him supple so the dehydration cannot wreak full havoc.. I take him everywhere and I check him every 15-20 mins ♡

[Edillan]

He's not getting full on dehydrated but I can feel the difference when I hold him if you know what I mean.

[Nancy in New York]

I have tried to share photos with no success.


I sent you a pm the other day telling you to email me pictures.
Check your pm's.


I am going to send you my email address in a pm.
IF you want, send me some pictures and I will post them on
the board so we can see what's going on with your little one.

[Edillan]

I was able to Google a pic and he looks like this with a fuzzed head and a silver tail with more hair than that

https://goo.gl/images/TGJu98

[Nancy in New York]

I was able to Google a pic and he looks like this with a fuzzed head and a silver tail with more hair than that

https://goo.gl/images/TGJu98

I think it would be more helpful if we saw YOUR baby.
Email me the pictures and I will post.

[Edillan]

Ok.. update.. I fed him 2.5-3cc this morning at about 7:15. I figured he would be ready again by 11. Well I got to work st 9 and he's been on my shoulder.. I put him away around 10 and he started hollaring after a bit. He wouldn't go snuggle up, he was walking around.. he's on a potty been fore he eats routine, and he had peed and was upset lol so I just slowly fed him at 10:30 and he took all 3cc no problem and was still very greedy after. I sat and contemplated feeding him more and he continued to search for food very intensely. So I sat and waited for another cc to warm in the cup and gave it to him very slow and kept feeling his belly a little for bloat or distend, and he was taking it all very well. No bloat afterwards either. .. still little belly wrinkles when he curls even. So I guess I need to adjust more. It's a weird decision to make.. do I treat him as a 3 week old as he seems, or do I assume he still has a greater need than that, being much older.. will he start gaining rapidly now or will he always be behind.. will he be stunted at maturity? Ugh :(

[Edillan]

I was able to copy and paste a link but when I try uploading a photo it never completes. It happens to me on Facebook too. I can't upload photos unless I use wifi. Visually I am not concerned that there is anything anybody could tell me that I don't already know other than his fur situation. His head is fine and his spine, and it's continuing to thicken, I just don't understand why it's so thin on his legs still.. I can see skin ya know. I mean he's surviving just fine, but I don't think I've given his formula enough time to show results. I'm just trying to stay on top of the game. I want to catch things early. Pneumonia is not an option here. We're not doing that! The nose click even goes away for days at a time so I think it's an irritant. We are not ill, just lagging in size. He is even getting more coordinated, today more than yesterday. I guess I just wish I had a crystal ball, or could hear from someone with a similar situation.

[cava]

Hi there. The range for a 55 g baby would be 2.75-3.85 ml, so you could go up to the max amount per feeding and see if that helps. Also, mine is 88 g and I am feeding every 3-4 hours during the day and no more than a 6 hour sleep break at night. I feed at midnight and again at 6 am. It seems like the hungrier they are, the longer it takes form them to be interested, sometimes.

Also, I am using a bonding pouch (see the Meet Kevin thread for a photo) and he seems much happier when he is on me. He's by himself and I understand why. When I have stuff to do I make sure he's in a soft blanket cave in his carrier whose back half is on a low heating pad. If I take the pouch off and lay it in the back of the carrier, he just snuggles deeper into it and sleeps until I come back.

Hope some of that helps. Can't wait to see his photo.

[Edillan]

I think I'm just a paranoid mama. I'm still stuck on the delay we experienced on the goat milk and I just wanted to know if anyone had any experience in this type of thing. He has never gained so much weight so quickly in his life as he has since being on full strength fox valley. So I probably should just give him more time... I'm just an over explainer, over worrier and I jump to too many conclusions trying to keep my eyes open to all angles. I think we just have to see how it goes I guess since I must be alone in this situation.

[stepnstone]

I was able to copy and paste a link but when I try uploading a photo it never completes. It happens to me on Facebook too. I can't upload photos unless I use wifi. Visually I am not concerned that there is anything anybody could tell me that I don't already know other than his fur situation. His head is fine and his spine, and it's continuing to thicken, I just don't understand why it's so thin on his legs still.. I can see skin ya know. I mean he's surviving just fine, but I don't think I've given his formula enough time to show results. I'm just trying to stay on top of the game. I want to catch things early. Pneumonia is not an option here. We're not doing that! The nose click even goes away for days at a time so I think it's an irritant. We are not ill, just lagging in size. He is even getting more coordinated, today more than yesterday. I guess I just wish I had a crystal ball, or could hear from someone with a similar situation.

When comments like this are made it tends to cause those who seek to help to back off, nobody has all the answers, not even those of us with years of experience. It takes a village and that's why we are all here, to support each other.
Visualization can show and tell us many things especially with experienced eyes that have seen and know what to look for.
You want to stay on "top of the game" find a way to post a picture, email a picture, however, and show us what you are seeing.
Many times "bad" fur is the result of improper nutrittion and it is not the age of the baby how much he could/should be eating but the body weight of the baby that determines that. Your baby should be weighed daily to know just how much he needs to be feed at each feeding which needs to be between 5-7 % of his body weight every 4 hours (at his stage) at least 4x daily.
At 50 grams 5% would be 2.5cc's, 6% 3cc's, 7% 3.5cc's Having that scale is important so his feedings can be adjusted to his body weight.
I missed what you are hydrating with? but glad to hear your hydrating between feedings. Calories are also important but a dehydrated baby cannot properly digest their formula so it's good you are continuing that.

We as well as myself are experiencing "small" babies especially this year , can't say what that is contributed to outside of knowing environmental changes can and does effect all living species. Our world is evidence of that.
I have a little that is around 8 weeks now fully developed for his age with the exception he's a "mini" squirrel about the size of a 4 week old. He's perfectly healthy, puts on grams and is getting a little "stocky" just don't appear to be growing. I'm still waiting on that growth spurt if it's going to happen but in the meantime he's about the cutest little mini dude I've ever seen. :grin2

[Edillan]

I really appreciate your comment, it was very helpful. I am aware of the calculations also, but thank you again. I find it unfortunate however that my frustration with technology would put somebody off from giving advice. I've been having issues with media for a long time now. I'll do my best to get a pic, I'm just taken aback that a photo is the only ticket to receive any ideas. But your input about fur is very helpful to me because now I can be certain that has been due to his previous formula. He is getting even more active and has been pooping and screaming for me even though it's only halfway to next feeding. He seems to be metabolizing faster but still afraid to feed again too soon or too much. I think he's even getting more bored and looking for me for companionship. I'm very interested in something to carry him with me! He sits between two layer of clothing on my shoulder otherwise he can't stay there so once I'm warm he can't hang out anymore. I even tried to design some sort of sling haha but I try to get him to exercise rather than hang out with me.

[stepnstone]

I really appreciate your comment, it was very helpful. I am aware of the calculations also, but thank you again. I find it unfortunate however that my frustration with technology would put somebody off from giving advice. I've been having issues with media for a long time now. I'll do my best to get a pic, I'm just taken aback that a photo is the only ticket to receive any ideas. But your input about fur is very helpful to me because now I can be certain that has been due to his previous formula. He is getting even more active and has been pooping and screaming for me even though it's only halfway to next feeding. He seems to be metabolizing faster but still afraid to feed again too soon or too much. I think he's even getting more bored and looking for me for companionship. I'm very interested in something to carry him with me! He sits between two layer of clothing on my shoulder otherwise he can't stay there so once I'm warm he can't hang out anymore. I even tried to design some sort of sling haha but I try to get him to exercise rather than hang out with me.

I have hungry babies (once established) I do feed well past the 7%, it's all about the poop. I increase slowly a couple cc's at a time and watch the poo. As long as it stays normal I let them eat what they want, if it starts to "soften" I back down. My guys stop themselves when their full, my little guy @ 7% would be 12cc's, sometimes he stops @ 6% and other times he's downing 16cc's before he stops. His poo has remained stable.
Time is another factor to consider. Could one be feeding too far apart where baby is always ravished at feeding or too close where baby don't eat consistent with each feeding.


Not sure what your keeping your guy in but his cage should provide some "activity" especially with being a singleton.
Of course something to climb on, a piece of branch or two to chew on, and stuffies to beat up and roll around with and the little stuffies on bungee cords have always been a favorite with mine. :great

[UDoWhat]

I am really worried about your concern with over feeding this little baby. Your baby needs to be fed 5-7% of his body weight at least 5x per day .... period! We are all experiencing little babies this year. I have 4 that are 5 weeks old that look 3 1/2 week olds.

5 week old babies need to rest most of the day. After feedings they usually snuggle up and go right back to sleep until the next meal. I am wondering if this baby isn't expending a lot of calories due to stress. Carrying a baby around on your shoulder is very stressful to that baby. I would recommend that you get a nice cozy bin for this baby and leave him in the bin. Be sure to get a heating pad that doesn't turn off and put the setting on low. Place the bin half on and half off the heating pad. You should leave the baby in the bin with piles of fleece so it can rest most of the day. He really shouldn't be handled all day long. It is fine to peek in on him and maybe scratch his little tummy but he should not be carried on your shoulder. Baby squirrels are like human babies they eat and sleep most of the day. This is how my 5 week old babies look most of the day. :Love_Icon

292850

[Jen413]

I'm just taken aback that a photo is the only ticket to receive any ideas..

The quote "A picture is worth a thousand words" is so very true. When you describe what you are seeing we can only imagine. Which everyone's mind interprets words differently. Seeing a picture shows us what your seeing, rather than leaving us to interpret. It really can make a huge difference.

Not having a pic won't stop people from trying to help, a picture just goes a long way. :Love_Icon

[UDoWhat]

The quote "A picture is worth a thousand words" is so very true. When you describe what you are seeing we can only imagine. Which everyone's mind interprets words differently. Seeing a picture shows us what your seeing, rather than leaving us to interpret. It really can make a huge difference.

Not having a pic won't stop people from trying to help, a picture just goes a long way. :Love_Icon


:goodpost So very true. We will always help a baby squirrel. It would be nice to know what we need to focus on, however. A picture helps us to help your baby and you. :Love_Icon

[Trooper]

Hi Edillan: I totally identify with your media upload problems. I have them too from time to time and I live and work in the heart of Silicon Valley. Have you tried to text his picture to someone? If that works instead of having to use WiFi to upload to the web, try to text the pic to someone who has access to TSB and can upload on your behalf. If you don't have anyone, I am sure any of the admininistrators would probably give you a number to text to. If I am out of line with that suggestion, then send me a PM and I'll give you my phone number.

Not to harp on what has already been said, but remember that a folk or cultural saying, as much as it may sound improbable, always carries a kernel of truth. I always say that "a picture is worth a thousand words, and a moving picture is worth a thousand pictures", having a way to evaluate your baby visually is the best, fastest and most accurate form of triage.

Good luck!

Trooper's dad

[Nancy in New York]

Hi Edillan: I totally identify with your media upload problems. I have them too from time to time and I live and work in the heart of Silicon Valley. Have you tried to text his picture to someone? If that works instead of having to use WiFi to upload to the web, try to text the pic to someone who has access to TSB and can upload on your behalf. If you don't have anyone, I am sure any of the admininistrators would probably give you a number to text to. If I am out of line with that suggestion, then send me a PM and I'll give you my phone number.

Not to harp on what has already been said, but remember that a folk or cultural saying, as much as it may sound improbable, always carries a kernel of truth. I always say that "a picture is worth a thousand words, and a moving picture is worth a thousand pictures", having a way to evaluate your baby visually is the best, fastest and most accurate form of triage.

Good luck!

Trooper's dad

I've made the offer several times to email me the pictures, and I would post for her.


I have tried to share photos with no success.


I sent you a pm the other day telling you to email me pictures.
Check your pm's.


I am going to send you my email address in a pm.
IF you want, send me some pictures and I will post them on
the board so we can see what's going on with your little one.

[stepnstone]

The quote "A picture is worth a thousand words" is so very true. When you describe what you are seeing we can only imagine. Which everyone's mind interprets words differently. Seeing a picture shows us what your seeing, rather than leaving us to interpret. It really can make a huge difference.
And I imagine we're not meant to or going to see what this baby looks like...



I've made the offer several times to email me the pictures, and I would post for her.
>
Visually I am not concerned that there is anything anybody could tell me that I don't already know other than his fur situation.



I am really worried about your concern with over feeding this little baby. Your baby needs to be fed 5-7% of his body weight at least 5x per day .... period!
>
I am aware of the calculations also,


Not having a pic won't stop people from trying to help, a picture just goes a long way. :Love_Icon
No, but shutting them down will!

[KarmaKay]

I'm a novice for sure, but I'm concerned that this baby may not be getting enough