PDA

View Full Version : May is having a problem--need some help!



Mel1959
08-02-2017, 04:13 PM
I'm not sure what is going on with May. She was released from the RC with her sisters on Saturday. She must have fallen a couple of days ago because she had some blood around her nostrils. I cleaned her up and put her in the RC overnight. The next morning she was moving around okay and acted fine so I let her out. Tuesday she was hanging around with one of her sisters and everything seemed fine. This morning when I went out to feed them I think they both came out of the box. I went in the house to get their veggies and when I came back out she stayed in the box. When she stuck her head out of her box her right eye didn't look good. It looked like it was partially closed like she didn't feel good. I also noticed a couple of skinny branches had been broken off the tree. I am going to guess that she fell again. We took her and her box down and put her back in the RC. I've posted a video where you can see her maneuvering around her cage and her partially closed right eye. It isn't always partially closed. She seems to hold her right front paw up as though it's bothering her. I also noticed she keeps making a pffft sound with her nose and made a little squeak sound right afterwards.

Any ideas on what might be wrong and what to give her? I have metacam 15mg, prednisone 1mg and 20 mg and tramadol 50mg. Her weight is between 300-350 gr.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_LVL4O486k8

HRT4SQRLS
08-02-2017, 04:36 PM
I don't know what the problem is but she definitely doesn't look right.
I don't know if you can catch her but I might consider taking her inside for a few days as a precaution.

I've always leaned toward thinking that they are probably fine and will 'shake it off' with a little rest and hydration. Not so with a new members squirrel a couple months ago. A new member's release came back inside and didn't appear well a couple days after release. I told them it was pretty common and that a day of rest, food and hydration was probably all he needed. He died in her lap a few hours later. :sadness
Clearly, it was more than fatigue and dehydration. It was a wake up call for me.

If possible I would bring her in. I would hold off on meds until I have a better idea what is going on.

Nancy in New York
08-02-2017, 05:37 PM
I wonder if she could have landed wrong and hurt her mouth.
If you can, I would check her teeth.
At the 5-6 second mark, she goes to wipe her little mouth, but
it's curious that she keeps her right paw up to her mouth during the
duration of the video.
Am I seeing that correctly?
How is she when she moves, does she appear stiff, like she's hurting?

Mel1959
08-02-2017, 06:05 PM
I have her in the house in one level of the critter Nation cage. She has been laying on top of her cube. She can move around fine when she has to, but she is favoring her right paw and arm. I gave her a loading dose of .03 metacam because I could tell by how she was holding her paw, her posture and how her eyes looked that she was in some pain. I will examine her teeth again. I did look at them after she had her bloody nose and they looked fine.

Thank you for responding so quickly. My plan is to keep her in the house for awhile and monitor her. When I think she's ready I will put her back in the RC for awhile and continue to monitor her there.

Before releasing I wish I had painted each girls toenails with some nail polish so I could identify them!! I BELIEVE this is May because of her personality, but I honestly don't know for sure. :shakehead:shakehead. If this is May, she was the smallest when I got her and Crzy4sqrls thought she had a tremor when she saw her at 7 weeks. I'm not sure what that means, but maybe she is compromised in some way. Before release she had no problem getting around the RC!

The pics are from about 5 mins ago.

stepnstone
08-02-2017, 06:12 PM
She looks better in the 2nd picture then she had in the video.
I'm glad you gave her some pain med, besides having a banged up nose
it seems pretty apparent she's hurt her little paw. I'll send up a little prayer
that bumps and bruises is all it is and hope she bounces back quickly. :grouphug

lennysmom
08-02-2017, 08:16 PM
Oh poor May.. it does sound like perhaps she took a fall. I'm so glad you brought her inside for observation and recovery time. She defiantly doesn't look like she feels good at all and I think the pain meds was a good call. Prayers that some good rest and TLC will bring a full recovery.:grouphug:Love_Icon

Mel1959
08-03-2017, 08:28 AM
May doesn't seem any better this morning. I physically had to get her out of her cube to give her the metacam. She has clear discharge coming from her nose. She peed on me and her urine feels hotter than normal so I believe she is running a fever. The video shows the pffffting noise she's making. She drank some formula last night so I mixed up more and she was eating a boo ball this morning, so I think that's a good sign. :dance I'm just not sure whether I should give her an antibiotic or what else might help her stuffy nose. I have some recently mixed up clavamox I can give her.

I called Dr. Emersons office, she isn't in today. Any thoughts on what I should do?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qv6jjPpb_mA

Nancy in New York
08-03-2017, 08:55 AM
May doesn't seem any better this morning. I physically had to get her out of her cube to give her the metacam. She has clear discharge coming from her nose. She peed on me and her urine feels hotter than normal so I believe she is running a fever. The video shows the pffffting noise she's making. She drank some formula last night so I mixed up more and she was eating a boo ball this morning, so I think that's a good sign. :dance I'm just not sure whether I should give her an antibiotic or what else might help her stuffy nose. I have some recently mixed up clavamox I can give her.

I called Dr. Emersons office, she isn't in today. Any thoughts on what I should do?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qv6jjPpb_mA

You could use benedryl for her stuffy nose.
These are times, where this is all guess work.
I so wished that Dr. E was in to help guide you.
Poor little May, she seems so sweet. :Love_Icon

crazy4squirrels
08-03-2017, 11:21 AM
I would start her on an antibiotic for sure. Metacam and antibiotics for 7 days. If she has a nasal discharge then cover all your bases.

lukaslolamaus
08-03-2017, 12:54 PM
Poor little sweetheart, prayers for a full and speedy recovery :Love_IconMay:Love_Icon

Mel1959
08-03-2017, 01:01 PM
I started the clavamox and will do a drop of neosynephrine in her nose. She's still sleeping all the time. I know she feels bad, she has her ears pulled back.

Nancy in New York
08-03-2017, 01:09 PM
Are you still giving Metacam?
Poor little peanut. :(

Jennefer
08-03-2017, 01:20 PM
Hi Mel....sorry to hear that May isnt feeling well. Im no expert by any means (you know more than I will ever know about these guys!!)...so just my 2cents...Im of no help on the arm injury or swollen face (although in the last video her face looks good to me). LuLu just got done with a respiratory infection (it think from being out in bad weather on her own with no mama - shes the baby I picked up in Dunedin). First few days she was doing major sneezing & it developed into stuffy nose/congestion to where she was mouth breathing pretty bad. I gave her Cipro & SMZ stacked, and metacam for 10 days. Also did a saline mist 2x a day, tiniest ever drop of afrin on her nose morning & evening to keep her nasal passages open (for a few days only when she was really bad). And hypertonic saline in a nebulizer, up to 5x a day. The neb really seemed to help keep her nose open. She went from sneezing a lot, to completely stuffed up with mouth breathing to clear runny, and finally cleared up. If May's nose is runny now, she could get congested as it progresses, so just some ideas if she does or if she starts mouth breathing. No sure if you have a nebulizer machine...most families with young kids have them (pediatricians like to use them for respiratory infections) or older people with CPOD, etc. Not sure if medical supply places sell them or if you need a drs note. I have a TON of saline vials that I just ordered, so I can send you some if need them. Im inclined to think that if May is running a fever, its either viral (in which case the supportive treatment will help) or could be bacterial, I agree with crazy4squrrls on the antibiotics. Even if it's a viral respiratory thing (which I dont think LuLus was), it could so easily turn into bacterial infection with their little nose track plugged up. I also used probiotics everyday with LuLu & she had no issues with the antibiotics at all. Hope May gets feeling better! :hug

Mel1959
08-03-2017, 01:38 PM
Are you still giving Metacam?
Poor little peanut. :(

Yes, still giving metacam. How often can she be dosed? Dr. E did respond to me and agreed that the clavamox should be started. I forgot that I have SMZ too. Is one better than the other for respiratory?

Mel1959
08-03-2017, 01:45 PM
Hi Mel....sorry to hear that May isnt feeling well. Im no expert by any means (you know more than I will ever know about these guys!!)...so just my 2cents...Im of no help on the arm injury or swollen face (although in the last video her face looks good to me). LuLu just got done with a respiratory infection (it think from being out in bad weather on her own with no mama - shes the baby I picked up in Dunedin). First few days she was doing major sneezing & it developed into stuffy nose/congestion to where she was mouth breathing pretty bad. I gave her Cipro & SMZ stacked, and metacam for 10 days. Also did a saline mist 2x a day, tiniest ever drop of afrin on her nose morning & evening to keep her nasal passages open (for a few days only when she was really bad). And hypertonic saline in a nebulizer, up to 5x a day. The neb really seemed to help keep her nose open. She went from sneezing a lot, to completely stuffed up with mouth breathing to clear runny, and finally cleared up. If May's nose is runny now, she could get congested as it progresses, so just some ideas if she does or if she starts mouth breathing. No sure if you have a nebulizer machine...most families with young kids have them (pediatricians like to use them for respiratory infections) or older people with CPOD, etc. Not sure if medical supply places sell them or if you need a drs note. I have a TON of saline vials that I just ordered, so I can send you some if need them. Im inclined to think that if May is running a fever, its either viral (in which case the supportive treatment will help) or could be bacterial, I agree with crazy4squrrls on the antibiotics. Even if it's a viral respiratory thing (which I dont think LuLus was), it could so easily turn into bacterial infection with their little nose track plugged up. I also used probiotics everyday with LuLu & she had no issues with the antibiotics at all. Hope May gets feeling better! :hug

Thank you Jennefer. I don't have a nebulizer. I have thought about getting one for Joey, but he got better and didn't seem to need it. If I can find one on Craigslist I may take you up on the saline offer.

I just held her for about 15 mins and when I put her back in the cage she took the boo ball I offered, so at least she's eating something. She doesn't come out of her cube to get any food, though.

Nancy in New York
08-03-2017, 03:36 PM
Yes, still giving metacam. How often can she be dosed? Dr. E did respond to me and agreed that the clavamox should be started. I forgot that I have SMZ too. Is one better than the other for respiratory?

What dose are you giving and what is her weight?
It used to be once daily but some vets have changed that, and increased the
amount we can give.

stepnstone
08-03-2017, 04:05 PM
Have you been able to check her mouth and teeth for any possible damage?

Mel1959
08-03-2017, 04:50 PM
What dose are you giving and what is her weight?
It used to be once daily but some vets have changed that, and increased the
amount we can give.

I'm sorry, I was offline and out buying a nebulizer for her. Her weight is 375gr. I gave her a loading dose of metacam 15mg/1ml last night of .03 and this morning gave .018. I have given one dose of clavamox 62.5/15ml gave .08.

These amounts were based on an approx weight of 325 gr. I weighed her and she is 375gr.

Mel1959
08-03-2017, 05:04 PM
Have you been able to check her mouth and teeth for any possible damage?

I did look in her mouth. Her teeth look fine and I didn't see any problem with the roof of her mouth. I got her to take about 1cc of formula and about .5 cc of water. If she doesn't start drinking more I might need to sub q. Any thoughts on how much to sub q at a time? Her sniffling seems a bit better and I don't see any discharge from her nose.

Nancy in New York
08-03-2017, 05:16 PM
I'm sorry, I was offline and out buying a nebulizer for her. Her weight is 375gr. I gave her a loading dose of metacam 15mg/1ml last night of .03 and this morning gave .018. I have given one dose of clavamox 62.5/15ml gave .08.

These amounts were based on an approx weight of 325 gr. I weighed her and she is 375gr.

Do you mean the strength of the Metacam is 1.5mg/mL?
IF so the dose would be 0.075
Many vets will dose this twice a day instead of once.
So you can give 0.075 twice daily for a 375 gram squirrel.
The new WMB book actually has increased the dosing to 1mg/kg for rodents
instead of 0.1 mg/kg

Can you tell me again what the Clavamox strength is?
Do you mean 62.5 mg/mL?
IF so, the dose would be 0.12 twice daily for a 375 gram squirrel.

Mel1959
08-03-2017, 06:05 PM
Do you mean the strength of the Metacam is 1.5mg/mL?
IF so the dose would be 0.075
Many vets will dose this twice a day instead of once.
So you can give 0.075 twice daily for a 375 gram squirrel.
The new WMB book actually has increased the dosing to 1mg/kg for rodents
instead of 0.1 mg/kg

Can you tell me again what the Clavamox strength is?
Do you mean 62.5 mg/mL?
IF so, the dose would be 0.12 twice daily for a 375 gram squirrel.

Yes the clavamox is the standard box you get from the vet. It just came from the vets office last week.

I will dose the metacam as she needs it up to two times per day.

Nancy in New York
08-03-2017, 06:17 PM
Yes the clavamox is the standard box you get from the vet. It just came from the vets office last week.

I will dose the metacam as she needs it up to two times per day.


:thumbsup
OK so you add 14 mls. of water to the Clavamox powder, correct?
Then you get a strength of 50 amoxi 12.5 clavulanic acid equalling 62.5 mg/ml
The dose will be 0.12 twice daily for a 375 gram squirrel.

Mel1959
08-03-2017, 08:34 PM
:thumbsup
OK so you add 14 mls. of water to the Clavamox powder, correct?
Then you get a strength of 50 amoxi 12.5 clavulanic acid equalling 62.5 mg/ml
The dose will be 0.12 twice daily for a 375 gram squirrel.

The clavamox was mixed by the vet. I took the last dose that was originally for my cat. He is doing fine and it was in the fridge and handy. I will have to mix up some more when this is gone because it's not enough to give her 7 days of treatment. I have another bottle in my freezer that can be mixed up when I need it.

Yes, the 0.12 is what I dosed this evening. I'm not nearly as concerned about pain as I am about whatever is going on with her nose and chest and if there is an infection that she needs to beat. She is very subdued. Thank you for clarifying the meds dosage. :hug

Mel1959
08-04-2017, 08:25 AM
I'm not seeing much of an improvement yet. May has had 3 doses of clavamox and I dosed metacam this morning. All she wants to do is sleep in her cube. When I do get her out to give her meds she will climb on me or jump to the furniture, but when she's put back in her cage she goes into her cube. She drank some formula out of the bowl and ate an almond this morning. She has veggies but she's not really eating them. She nibbled on a piece of avocado and a boo ball. She has had some small poops and peed pretty well yesterday....3 times on me! She doesn't feel as warm as she had been.

My questions are: Should there be more improvement by now? Should I consider a different antibiotic or stacking them? I have 1 Doxycycline capsule 100mg expires 8/6/2017, and SMZ-TMP 240mg/5ml. I'm not sure when it expires, I got it from Crzy4sqrls, so she would know. I can also call Dr. E and see if she will prescribe something.

Also I have a nebulizer. Jennefer has graciously offered to send me some saline vials for it (thank you, Jen :hug) in the meantime, can I put straight saline in it and use that till the vials arrive? They make saline nose drops for kids so I wondered if that would work. I know NOTHING about nebulizing. I'm still doing the neosynephrine in her nose a couple of times a day.

Milo's Mom
08-04-2017, 09:01 AM
Yes, you may use straight saline. 1 drop per nostril, several times a day...maybe 4 or so. You may also use Afrin, same thing 1 drop per nostril, but you should not exceed 2 drops per 24 hours. When I say drop I'm referring to a drop coming from a 0.5cc insulin syringe with an ultra fine needle...it's a micro unit sized drop.

I'm not sure I read back far enough to see what the meds are being used for so I'm not going to comment on that right now; but I generally see a difference while using Clavamox at dose 3 or 4...like a marked difference.

EDIT: Clarification...that's 1 drop of Afrin to each nostril twice a day...total of 4 drops...2 per nostril in 24 hours.

Mel1959
08-04-2017, 09:07 AM
Thank you for letting me know the max doses of neosynephrine. I may not have been clear about the saline. Can it be put in the nebulizer so I can mist her nose to help with her breathing?

Jennefer
08-04-2017, 10:59 AM
Hi Mel - sent you a pm with the tracking #. Should be there tomorrow! In the meantime, yes, Ive heard that you can use saline solution in the nebulizer, but Ive never done it. Seen online recipes but you have to be careful with storage b/c its not sterilized. I did use saline mist on LuLu, I would cover her face/eyes & spray a tiny mist up from underneath her but not directly at her, this way she could get the mist as she normally breathes without getting soaked. Afrin worked great as well. I also did the old boiled water in a pot face steam trick...put a towel over me & LuLu's head & held her in the steam (just make sure it isnt too hot or May isnt squirmy...you dont want her jumping in the hot water!) I put LuLu in my shirt with her head sticking out of my v neck while holding on to her. You could try a steamy bathroom as well in the meantime.

Assuming you have the neb cups, tubing & a mask? Its really easy...the saline goes in the cup (I use halve a vial per session), which attaches to the tubing attached to the machine. Should be a mask attached to the cup. The steam (cold) will look like fog coming out of the mask. Just hold May in your lap & loosely hold the mask over her face. They are loud, so she may not like the noise or be scared but she'll get use to it. You know the saline is done when the sound changes....its a smooth steady fizz when it's working then starts sputtering when it's running out. You can tap the cup to get the droplets to fall down in he cup to finish up. Very easy! :blowkiss

Mel1959
08-04-2017, 11:48 AM
Thank you for the nebulizer 101 session. It was very helpful. I do have some of the sealed tube units, but the ones I have look like it's a mouth piece that you inhale the mist with. I figured I could just hold it close to her nose and she could breath it in.

Mel1959
08-04-2017, 12:24 PM
Here are a couple pics of May from both sides. I have noticed that it seems her right eye is usually slightly closed....like when you know they don't feel good. I don't see that same thing with the left eye. Does anyone have any ideas about why this might be?

Jennefer
08-04-2017, 12:44 PM
Thank you for the nebulizer 101 session. It was very helpful. I do have some of the sealed tube units, but the ones I have look like it's a mouth piece that you inhale the mist with. I figured I could just hold it close to her nose and she could breath it in.

You're welcome! Yes you can...you prob have one that looks like a tube. You can buy any of the pediatric child masks online for a few dollars. Walgreens carries them online & you may be able to call the pharmacy & see if they have them in store. I take the string off the mask so LuLu didnt get tangled it in. here's pic of tubing, mask & mouth piece. Ends of tubing are identical. One goes into machine & other goes into neb cup (under the mouthpiece) or its a separate clear cup for the mask (so if you get the mask, ask for the cup as well). The mouthpiece will work fine.

Mays eyes look fine to me - about he same on both sides to me (not swollen).....but she looks tired or like shes feeling under the weather for sure. Sleepy eyes. I sure hope she gets feeling better quick!

291031