4 1/2 year old male eastern gray with swollen areas in neck area and under front legs

[cstewart13]

Hello Everyone,
Please understand that I have an excellent veterinarian office which cooperates with me about EG squirrel care, to the best of their knowledge. Small animal care is one of their specialties. I know everyone on the board will need more details about Willie, my 4 1/2 year old boy, but right now I have one major concern. Can squirrels get cancer? Specifically, thyroid cancer. He went through another recent hair loss episode (Grow light used for vitamin D to help) but what used to be playfully called his "squoobs" aka man boobs have grown a bit and both sides of his neck are also a bit swollen. Our vet actually came to our house recently to see all our critters and get a key to our house, just in case something happens to both me and my husband to where we can't take care of them. That aside, when she saw Willie, she said it could possibly be his lymph nodes. =( She recommended prednisone in case it is cancer, to slow it down, but for the life of me I haven't had any success trying to find out online if this is possible. Please, please someone with more experience let me know if this could be the case. If so, then I will talk to her about a plan to get him to the actual vet's office for further examination before we try the prednisone. I'm hoping against hope it's only fat, or fatty tumors as he is a bit on the chunky side (1lb. 6.2 ounces.) All my others are fine, everyone has the same diet, but I've been giving him bigger pieces of raw coconut, or just flat out organic coconut oil if we can't find raw, to help with his skin problem. He's not my oldest, I have others that are 6 months older. Just like everyone here, on this board, I desperately love my squirrels. I do everything I can to keep them healthy and happy. And.....I'm scared to find out if this is cancer, but I have to know. Thank you ahead of time.

[stepnstone]

Hello Everyone,
Please understand that I have an excellent veterinarian office which cooperates with me about EG squirrel care, to the best of their knowledge. Small animal care is one of their specialties. I know everyone on the board will need more details about Willie, my 4 1/2 year old boy, but right now I have one major concern. Can squirrels get cancer? Specifically, thyroid cancer. He went through another recent hair loss episode (Grow light used for vitamin D to help) but what used to be playfully called his "squoobs" aka man boobs have grown a bit and both sides of his neck are also a bit swollen. Our vet actually came to our house recently to see all our critters and get a key to our house, just in case something happens to both me and my husband to where we can't take care of them. That aside, when she saw Willie, she said it could possibly be his lymph nodes. =( She recommended prednisone in case it is cancer, to slow it down, but for the life of me I haven't had any success trying to find out online if this is possible. Please, please someone with more experience let me know if this could be the case. If so, then I will talk to her about a plan to get him to the actual vet's office for further examination before we try the prednisone. I'm hoping against hope it's only fat, or fatty tumors as he is a bit on the chunky side (1lb. 6.2 ounces.) All my others are fine, everyone has the same diet, but I've been giving him bigger pieces of raw coconut, or just flat out organic coconut oil if we can't find raw, to help with his skin problem. He's not my oldest, I have others that are 6 months older. Just like everyone here, on this board, I desperately love my squirrels. I do everything I can to keep them healthy and happy. And.....I'm scared to find out if this is cancer, but I have to know. Thank you ahead of time.

They can get cancer but it is not as common as some rodents such as mouse/rat.
Overweight alone can lead to many health problems, diabetes for one that can effect thyroid.
Obviously your boy needs medical attention. Suspicion is one thing, knowing is another.
I'm rather surprised your vet would recommend prednisone without appropriate testing, blood
work ect. to determine a cause and actually know what to treat. If the door is open to get him
physically checked out and tested it is necessary and I would highly recommend it.

[cstewart13]

I was able to weigh him on a postage scale yesterday. He weighs 1 pound 6.2 ounces. Is this obese for an eastern gray, because I have no idea if it is? Also, my vet suggested testing his urine for diabetes. I just have to find a way to get it from him. The only reason why he hasn't actually gone to the vets office yet is because of the difficulty of getting him there. He's a very robust, flat out run and jump, opinionated boy who loves his scritches once he settles down during his out time. I have no clue as to how I would get him there because if he doesn't want to do something, I know I'll pay for it. I appreciate your reply, thank you =)

[SammysMom]

That doesn't sound obese to me, but a picture would help. To get a urine specimen, get a new clean plastic container and as soon as he wakes, put him In it. The cold plastic and a full overnight bladder will often cause them to pee. Put it into a smaller clean container and bring it to the vet.

[HRT4SQRLS]

629 grams is probably overweight for an Alabama grey squirrel but not grossly overweight. Most of our indoor squirrels do carry more weight than their outdoor counterparts.

I would get a pet carrier and try to capture him. Your vet seems like an extremely helpful person. You can probably borrow a carrier from your vet. I would put nuts in the back of the carrier and try to lure him into the carrier. I would have a lot of fleece or tshirts in the carrier so that he can burrow under them. Do you drive? You mentioned the vet came to your house to get a key. Be very careful if it's a plastic carrier like a cat carrier as squirrels will chew through plastic like butter. :tilt
If you get him in a carrier don't let him chew the wire door either as chewing like this will damage the teeth. I would probably give him an in-shell nut to occupy his time.

At the vets office, she can use gas to anaesthetic your friend and get all the diagnostic tests needed to determine if there is a problem. A biopsy might be needed of the neck. There was a squirrel with a similar situation that was diagnosed with lymphoma from a biopsy. I would also get full body X-rays including the head. Prednisone is used sometimes for cancers but of course, it's a short term 'patch' for a serious problem. Don't jump to that conclusion though because it might be fatty tissue also.

We always ask about the diet. Diet is, without a doubt THE most important issue when it comes to the health of our squirrel friends. What does your friend eat?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Here is a link to the healthy diet for pet squirrels.
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=224695&d=1391033425

[cstewart13]

629 grams is probably overweight for an Alabama grey squirrel but not grossly overweight. Most of our indoor squirrels do carry more weight than their outdoor counterparts.

I would get a pet carrier and try to capture him. Your vet seems like an extremely helpful person. You can probably borrow a carrier from your vet. I would put nuts in the back of the carrier and try to lure him into the carrier. I would have a lot of fleece or tshirts in the carrier so that he can burrow under them. Do you drive? You mentioned the vet came to your house to get a key. Be very careful if it's a plastic carrier like a cat carrier as squirrels will chew through plastic like butter. :tilt
If you get him in a carrier don't let him chew the wire door either as chewing like this will damage the teeth. I would probably give him an in-shell nut to occupy his time.

At the vets office, she can use gas to anaesthetic your friend and get all the diagnostic tests needed to determine if there is a problem. A biopsy might be needed of the neck. There was a squirrel with a similar situation that was diagnosed with lymphoma from a biopsy. I would also get full body X-rays including the head. Prednisone is used sometimes for cancers but of course, it's a short term 'patch' for a serious problem. Don't jump to that conclusion though because it might be fatty tissue also.

We always ask about the diet. Diet is, without a doubt THE most important issue when it comes to the health of our squirrel friends. What does your friend eat?

Organic Harrison's Adult Lifetime Coarse bird pellets as the main food, which is always available. That is what our vet's office recommended
. A nut square from William Sell's products in the morning, then 30 minutes later, a very very small piece of Larabar (human food) and ONE peanut in shell about 2 hours later. Around 2-3 pm, a variety of about 1 inch square of fresh carrot, sweet potato and apple. An even smaller piece of fresh coconut. An equivalent of 1 1/2 fresh sugar snap peas in shell and 5-6 individual English Peas (from frozen) and we trade out either broccoli or leafy greens about twice a month. I'm sure others have noticed how picky they can be. In the evening, after he's had his scamper time, he gets ONE in shell nut. Usually an almond, but we always buy in shell nuts in the Fall, so there's also hazelnuts. For a very very very special treat in the evenings there may be a pecan in shell instead.

[Diggie's Friend]

HRT4SQRLS is correct about the weight you have noted for your boy as not much in excess.
If his weight was 1.62 lbs. (734 grams), not (1 lb. 6.2 oz.) as noted, then that would be very obese weight for this subspecies of the E. Gray squirrel.

An x-ray will show whether there is any dense (viseral) fat in or around his inner organs that would be unhealthy.

My concern in your area is for possible arsenic contamination, that causes the joints and tissues to swell; for this region once produced cotton using arsenic as a pesticide, that is still higher many areas. The water may be contaminated from the rains leaching out into the water supply.

All the more reason to provide a source of water not from the tap, along with an all organic diet. Arsenic is known to accummulate in the body over time.

I know of a hydroponic lettuce farm in the State I saw on Youtube; this kind of farming eliminates the issue of arsenic being pulled up into the plant foods and fruits.
Though not familiar with the formula you note using, bird formulas tend to be too high in phosphorus for tree squirrels. Even so vet recommended, I would out this source to make sure it provides well support for a healthly 2:1 Ca:P ratio in his diet.

[Diggie's Friend]

Your diet looks too high overall in phosphorus from what you've described here, as coconut is very high in phosphorus to Calcium ratio.

Sorry, I didn't get the "scoobs" before; rather late here. Fat in this area is evident of being overweight, even if not grossly so. If you can measure his length from tip of nose to his tail tip, I will compare it with the data I have for an E. Gray that is close to 620 grams, that isn't overweight, nor has enlarged mammaries. If then he is overall shorter in length, this would explain being chunky as you have described him.

[stepnstone]

Organic Harrison's Adult Lifetime Coarse bird pellets
Ingredients: *Ground Yellow Corn, *Ground Hulless Barley, *Ground Soybeans, *Ground Shelled Peanuts, *Ground Shelled Sunflower Seeds, *Ground Lentils, *Ground Green Peas, *Ground Rice, *Ground Toasted Oat Groats, * Ground Sun-Dried Alfalfa, Calcium Carbonate, Psyllium, Montmorillonite Clay, Spirulina, Ground Dried Sea Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Sea Salt, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, d-Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate and Sodium Selenite.

Your squirrel needs a good quality rodent block specified for mammals.

[Diggie's Friend]

This feed is high by volume in acid promoting urine pH ground grains (soybean ; cornmeal ; sunflower seeds ; peanuts), which are high in anti-nutrient compounds: (oxalates & goitrogens: calcium robbing and calcium stone & goiter promoting) (sugars & fats: obesity and diabetes promoting) .

Although appropriate sources for bird and chicken diets, (as Stepstone writes), they are not for rodents/mammals.

[Diggie's Friend]

Just like everyone here, on this board, I desperately love my squirrels. I do everything I can to keep them healthy and happy. And.....I'm scared to find out if this is cancer, but I have to know.

I thought to share that in a rat study on goiter, as long as the goiter hasn't reached the cancer stage it can be reversed by a diet low in goitrogens, that is balanced in pH and the macro minerals, & zinc, not overly high in fat and protein; this with the support of (potassium iodide) to help address the reduction of a goiter.

I would first check with your vet if they see this form of iodine is appropriate in their view, and if it is for the dosage, before adding it to his food. You can ask your vet about doing a thyroid anti-body test of his blood for goiter. Another test that could to determine if he has goiter vs. fat deposits only, is a sonigram; this would show whether they thyroid gland is enlarged (has a goiter).

[cstewart13]

Organic Harrison's Adult Lifetime Coarse bird pellets
Ingredients: *Ground Yellow Corn, *Ground Hulless Barley, *Ground Soybeans, *Ground Shelled Peanuts, *Ground Shelled Sunflower Seeds, *Ground Lentils, *Ground Green Peas, *Ground Rice, *Ground Toasted Oat Groats, * Ground Sun-Dried Alfalfa, Calcium Carbonate, Psyllium, Montmorillonite Clay, Spirulina, Ground Dried Sea Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Sea Salt, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, d-Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate and Sodium Selenite.

Your squirrel needs a good quality rodent block specified for mammals.

Okay, thank you, what do you recommend? We have pet rats and feed them Oxbow Regal Rat.

[cstewart13]

HRT4SQRLS is correct about the weight you have noted for your boy as not much in excess.
If his weight was 1.62 lbs. (734 grams), not (1 lb. 6.2 oz.) as noted, then that would be very obese weight for this subspecies of the E. Gray squirrel.

An x-ray will show whether there is any dense (viseral) fat in or around his inner organs that would be unhealthy.

My concern in your area is for possible arsenic contamination, that causes the joints and tissues to swell; for this region once produced cotton using arsenic as a pesticide, that is still higher many areas. The water may be contaminated from the rains leaching out into the water supply.

All the more reason to provide a source of water not from the tap, along with an all organic diet. Arsenic is known to accummulate in the body over time.

I know of a hydroponic lettuce farm in the State I saw on Youtube; this kind of farming eliminates the issue of arsenic being pulled up into the plant foods and fruits.
Though not familiar with the formula you note using, bird formulas tend to be too high in phosphorus for tree squirrels. Even so vet recommended, I would out this source to make sure it provides well support for a healthly 2:1 Ca:P ratio in his diet.

I wasn't sure how to post his weight but 1.62 lbs would be correct. He gets bottled spring, or drinking water which we also give to our pet rats and mice and drink personally. Thank you =)

[Diggie's Friend]

Glad to hear his water is a clean source. I'm so sorry to hear his weight is so high.



Ingredients: Whole Brown Rice, Oat Groats, Wheat Bran, Wheat, Soybean Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Calcium Carbonate, Natural Flavor, Soybean Hulls, Brewer’s Dried Yeast, Flax Seed Meal, Monocalcium Phosphate, DL-Methionine, Canola Oil, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Wheat Germ Meal, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Salt, Inulin, Magnesium Oxide, Mixed Tocopherols (preservative), Choline Chloride, Sodium Bentonite, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, L-Ascorbyl-2-Monophosphate (Vitamin C), Niacin, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Biotin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Sodium Selenite, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Vitamin K), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Rosemary Extract.

Oxbow also has soymeal also, again a very high in goitrogens(goiter provokers), which lower the uptake of iodine. So that isn't going to help. He needs a weight rerduction diet, which I may be able to help you with. You are welcome to send me a PM to discuss his diet in more detail.

Atleast I can give you the name of the source in your region that grows organic lettuces hydroponically.

Diggie's Friend

[Mel1959]

Your friend needs to be on a good quality rodent block. Dr. Emerson, a vet who KNOWS and loves squirrels, recommends that rodent block should make up 80-85% of a captive squirrels diet. The remaining 15-20% should consist of healthy veggies from the healthy squirrel diet pyramid in the Nutrition section of this forum. Fruits are limited to a couple of small pieces a day and nuts 3-4 a week.

I personally have had excellent results with Harlan Teklad 2018 rodent block. This version is higher in protein but they do have formulations that aren't as high. Oxbow a Regal rat, Mazuri and Zupreem also make a rodent block, I haven't had as much success with my guys liking those. A lot of folks feed Henrys healthy blocks, which comes in a variety of recipes. It must be purchased online at Henrys healthy pets. This block is probably one of the better tasting blocks and might be more readily accepted. But, since your guy has been on a pellet food already he might take to the Harlan block easily. It is relatively inexpensive but must be purchased online, as well. I just shop around for the best price.

I think once you get his staple diet changed he might start to lose weight. Of course, you can't offer any junk food, if you ever did. Tough love.

[Spanky]

A lot of folks feed Henrys healthy blocks, which comes in a variety of recipes. It must be purchased online at Henrys healthy pets. This block is probably one of the better tasting blocks and might be more readily accepted.

It should be mentioned that the Henry's block is a supplement and a grey squirrel would only get 2-3 of these a day. It is packed full of nutrients but it would not comprise 80%+ of a squirrel's diet (by volume)... they would need to be provided one of the other blocks mentioned or a larger quantity of veggies so they can get their bellies full!

[Mel1959]

:yeahthat:yeahthat. Thank you, Spanky. The other blocks like Harlan, Oxbow, etc. can be free fed as much as they want.

[Diggie's Friend]

HHB is one source that doesn't have the soymeal. Sorry I didn't share that before, it was late last night when I posted. Harlan Teklad 2014, doesn't contain soymeal either; it is formulated for older animals, and is a good choice for those that are over weight.

If his condition is from goiter, caused by the over ingestion of higher goitrogenic (goiter promoting) food sources:soymeal, peanuts, etc., that are included in the bird formula diet you were using, to feed a diet that does not contains one or more of these higher goitrogenic sources will be needed to effectively reduce a non-cancerous goiter.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/019262339001800202

Having researched, developed, and successfully implemented a weight reduction diet, that is taylored to the lower caloric needs of this same ssp. of the E. Gray squirrel in captive care, I found it to take upwards of a year to reduce this level of obesity to normal lean weight, that veterinarians recommend for wilds supported in captivity.