Need some help after a long time not needing any

[BedheadRed]

:embar Okay, I have been raising these two squirrels, one male foxer and a female grey, for three years now. They share the same cage, food, playtime, etc. In these three years my female has never gone into heat. Well you guessed it..... Her vulva started swelling three days ago. I separated their cage into halves for each starting yesterday evening. Today she will not come out of her fleece cube, she has piled all of her blankets and stuffier over the entrance hole, and she is attacking anything that tries to breech the entrance of her stockade she has created.
Here's my questions:
*How long does estrus last?

*How long does the sex act take and are there any signs it has happened?

*What kinds of behavior can be expected from her during her time?

*Has anyone ever heard of a successful breeding between fox and grey?

In other words, I am hoping mating has not already happened, and would like to keep it that way. I assumed she never had a heat because her body knew she couldn't produce offspring with him...now I'm not sure.:eek:thankyou

[Mel1959]

Wow! I don't have any answers to your questions, but I will be following this thread to hear what the more experienced and knowledgeable people have to say. :grin2

[redwuff]

Has she been gaining any extra weight lately. Have you noticed any nipple enlargement. Usually vulva enlargement is a heat period, but.....it is easy to miss mating, and then see behavior like you are describing, hiding, building nest, and aggression toward anyone coming near her nest.

To be safe for all, I would cage your male somewhere else. A partion is absolutely not enough!

Trysh

[lilidukes]

Greys and foxes are different species and
cannot mate.
All females differ during estrus. Expect bi-polar
type behavior.
In the wild females are chased most of the day
until her body temp reaches a high level then it's
usually the last man (squirrel) standing who she
mates with.
I've had a male and female greys together for
6 years and no babies. She kicks him out of
where ever their current sleeping place is and
I give him extra blankets on the bottom of their
cage to sleep in.
She is grumpy and he is extremely protective
of her.
They are nr's he's blind and she's is missing a foot.

[Mel1959]

Greys and foxes are different species and
cannot mate.
All females differ during estrus. Expect bi-polar
type behavior.
In the wild females are chased most of the day
until her body temp reaches a high level then it's
usually the last man (squirrel) standing who she
mates with.
I've had a male and female greys together for
6 years and no babies. She kicks him out of
where ever their current sleeping place is and
I give him extra blankets on the bottom of their
cage to sleep in.
She is grumpy and he is extremely protective
of her.
They are nr's he's blind and she's is missing a foot.

I don't understand how you can have a male and female greys together for 6 years and have them not mate? Can someone explain this to me? :grin3

[redwuff]

This will be very interesting to see what happens. We have a living experiment going on in front of our eyes.

I hope lilidukes is right and the different species can't mate. Having babies in a captive setting is tough. Several years ago UDoWhat and I believe Pappy too had a situation occur that all the books said 'did not happen'. They both had overwinters get pregnant by their cage mate. Yea, Ralph did the dirty deed and got the two girls pregnant that were shacked up with him. And they were the same species. All were greys.

Gestation is 42-44 days. Please keep us updated.

[lilidukes]

I don't understand how you can have a male and female greys together for 6 years and have them not mate? Can someone explain this to me? :grin3

Because I keep them caged when in heat so
her exercise is limited for a week or so. It
would take a lot of work on her part to run
in their cage enough to get her body temp
up high enough to mate.
Years ago when these two where young and I
separated them she quit eating and he started
having seizures. So they have to stay together.


Your squirrels could actually mate but nothing
will come of it.

[redwuff]

I wonder if they can have false pregnancies like dogs.

I never knew about the running around to build up body temp. Very fascinating...

[BedheadRed]

Okay. This afternoon I went in and sweet talked her until she poked her head out and eventually came out of the cube. No bippie (nipple) change. She was jumpy at usually non threatening noises. But she climbed on me and cuddled briefly and ate some seeds an a little piece of macadamia. Inside her cage she had only 1 HHB left although she could be stashing...I will check later. If I offer a nut in cage she will not accept it. I have some pretty laid back babies in some regards. I can and my DH have been able to touch them while they eat anything. Including nuts, touching on the face/head/paws while they eat. I don't know why, but it's always been this way. I feel badly that some of you cannot give nuts out of cage/hand nuts to your babies. My male at 3yrs old for the first time started resenting/biting DH this past Dec. and that has abated thank God. He was going for neck area, but I started intercepting the bites with my hands and gradually he stopped. We also re-designed DH's squirrel room attire to add more protection. I have no fear at all of either of them. If they bite me, they bite me is how I feel, but I think DH was feeling fear which egged my little fur boy on to continue the behavior. I think I have been bitten once by the male when he was under a year old and he got his foot caught in the fleece hammock somehow and was dangling and scared when I freed him. It took about 45 seconds, but that was too long for him! Did anyone find out how long estrus lasts? And will her vulva become a dark red? I have seen examples on here but can't remember what kind of squee it was. She also has become kind of scared of the male during playtime but then she will turn around and "mount" him, wrestling and tumbling...but when he mounts her, he means business. He makes a weird noise that he only makes sometimes when he is doing this. She will act scared and run from him, then she will instantly turn around and do what he's doing to her to him. It's funny because up until winter of last year, she was the boss, she chased him. He would yell at her thoroughly if she came near the hammock he was in. She could and would walk up to him and take a pecan right out of his mouth...and he would give it right over. So for almost 3 years she bossed him. Now the tables have turned. His name is Biggie and she is Princess PP.

If I can, I will try to get footage of us touching them while they eat nuts/handing them nuts, etc. they take them very gently. But I probably won't try until this crazy hormonal drama ends.:skwredup.

[BedheadRed]

I believe the drama is over. No mating. She has let him into the Stockade at night. So back to sleeping together. Her vulva is shrinking day by day. Thanks to all who chimed in! Still working on getting some footage. Thanks!