SEIS IN CR NEEDS MEDS & DOSING

[RamaMama]

For several weeks Seis's vulva had been swollen and she has been irritable. I thought she was possibly
going into heat, but it is continuing to swell and the boys could care less about her.

It does not seem right.

I am thinking she may need to be medicated.
Does anyone think she may need ABS, or something else?
She is not having the same difficulty as Luna with peeing. At least, not yet.

She weighs 710 grams.

[RamaMama]

BUMP


For several weeks Seis's vulva had been swollen and she has been irritable. I thought she was possibly
going into heat, but it is continuing to swell and the boys could care less about her.

It does not seem right.

I am thinking she may need to be medicated.
Does anyone think she may need ABS, or something else?
She is not having the same difficulty as Luna with peeing. At least, not yet.

She weighs 710 grams.

[island rehabber]

I would treat her for a UTI.....doyou have Baytril, Cipro or Smz?

[RamaMama]

I have Cipro already mixed for Luna.... it is a 500mg pill. Luna is 603 grams........ Seis is 710 grams.

Would the dosing be the same ??

If not please PM me, or have some one Pm us.

Thanks IR.

[Nancy in New York]

I have Cipro already mixed for Luna.... it is a 500mg pill. Luna is 603 grams........ Seis is 710 grams.

Would the dosing be the same ??

If not please PM me, or have some one Pm us.

Thanks IR.

How long has that Cipro been mixed?

[Nancy in New York]

Also how many mLs of water were used?

[RamaMama]

How long has that Cipro been mixed?

Mixed March 26th.

Luna has several more days to go...... but I will have to mix new SOON.
I can do it NOW if you think I should.

[Nancy in New York]

Mixed March 26th.

Luna has several more days to go...... but I will have to mix new SOON.
I can do it NOW if you think I should.

Yeah, how much is Luna taking?
How much water was this mixed with?

[RamaMama]

Thank you to all who responded here.... for all the help. Seis is set up with meds .... hopefully she will be on the mend
within a few days...

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

:w00t

[Nancy in New York]

Thanks for the reminder.
I forgot to post that dosing was sent. :w00t

Hopefully Seis will be better in no time. :Love_Icon

[RamaMama]

Seis appears to not be responding to the Cipro.
Her Vulva is huge.

She has been on it for 11 days.

Yesterday there was some blood in her urine........ we THINK there was none today.

Her appetite is better but that is all.

Thoughts - Suggestions ? ? ?

HELP !

[RamaMama]

BUMP


Seis appears to not be responding to the Cipro.
Her Vulva is huge.

She has been on it for 11 days.

Yesterday there was some blood in her urine........ we THINK there was none today.

Her appetite is better but that is all.

Thoughts - Suggestions ? ? ?

HELP !

[HRT4SQRLS]

Rosie, is she able to urinate freely or is she having difficulty? I think that's your greatest concern.

[RamaMama]

Seis appears to be peeing alright. .... but I do see her "grooming" her vulva
like it bothers her..... well, I think she is acting in that manner rather than just normal grooming.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Personally, I would stop the Cipro. 11 days is long enough. If this was a UTI it should have cleared by now if it's going to.
I really think this is estrus. I know she has problems with that.

I would give her a few days off antibiotics and see how she does. Have you ever tried an anti-inflammatory like ibuprofen when she's like this?

[stosh2010]

Personally, I would stop the Cipro. 11 days is long enough. If this was a UTI it should have cleared by now if it's going to.
I really think this is estrus. I know she has problems with that.

I would give her a few days off antibiotics and see how she does. Have you ever tried an anti-inflammatory like ibuprofen when she's like this?

SEIS is a hefty girl...about 700 grams (?) What is a normal dose of Ibuprofen?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Sending a PM.

[RamaMama]

Sending a PM.


Thank you..... got it ! :grouphug

[RamaMama]

Had not checked previously, BUT.............

The Infant Ibuprophen that we have expired in Nov 2016.
Is it still usable and if so HOW MUCH LONGER ? ? ?

It is liquid..... 1.25.

Now need to give to Seis, Dude, and Rama Rota.

The Ibuprophen is kept in the frig.

THANKS !

:grouphug

[RamaMama]

In reference to my last post about the Ibupropen........ I have recieved a PM with the
information.

thanks.
:grin2

[RamaMama]

Seis continues to have the swollen vulva and to be irritable.... this after 3 months,
or there abouts.....

she WAS dosed with Cipro some time back --- it did nothing for her -- it was suggested that perhaps she was
going into Estrus..... now it has been MUCH too long to be THAT !

So, what can I DO for her ? ? ? ? I can't just let her condition continue untreated.
There MUST be something wrong.

Looking forward to hearing something < < < > > > suggestions.

I can ask Stosh to check with the local Pharm if something is suggested which we do not have at present.
I have used up some of my meds dosing Luna.
:Love_Icon

[TubeDriver]

She has been on numorous antibiotics (Cipro, Clavamox, ???) with no real relief? Could this be something else like:

http://helloflo.com/interstitial-cystitis/

[RamaMama]

Thank you for your response TD..... I read the information.
Other than trying to find the drug "Elmiron" I am uncertain. Has anyone every tried Elmiron on
a squirrel ? ? ?

Although Seis has the enlarged or engorged Vulva, she has never had the same symptoms as Luna,
such as are attributed to a UTI. She does not act like she has to pee all the time or that she can't.
Nothing.
I have taken note that her nipples appear to remain a bit more noticeable; as though they are
slightly swollen.
Other than the swollen nipples and vulva, and being irritable, she has not shown any symptoms.
Maybe it is the problem in the article but I have no way of checking her to find out.

[TubeDriver]

It mentions that antihistimines can help with the symptoms. Has Benadryl helped at all in the past? Might be worth trying?



Thank you for your response TD..... I read the information.
Other than trying to find the drug "Elmiron" I am uncertain. Has anyone every tried Elmiron on
a squirrel ? ? ?

Although Seis has the enlarged or engorged Vulva, she has never had the same symptoms as Luna,
such as are attributed to a UTI. She does not act like she has to pee all the time or that she can't.
Nothing.
I have taken note that her nipples appear to remain a bit more noticeable; as though they are
slightly swollen.
Other than the swollen nipples and vulva, and being irritable, she has not shown any symptoms.
Maybe it is the problem in the article but I have no way of checking her to find out.

[RamaMama]

I have never given Benadryl to Seis. It is so horrible for
rodents that I have tried to use it ONLY in what I felt was an extreme circumstance: such
as when Dude is struggling horribly to breathe through sinus full of mucus.

Gave it to Rama only a couple of times in the past when he had a severe mucus problem which did clear up.

[TubeDriver]

It is a pretty safe drug, might be worth a shot?




I have never given Benadryl to Seis. It is so horrible for
rodents that I have tried to use it ONLY in what I felt was an extreme circumstance: such
as when Dude is struggling horribly to breathe through sinus full of mucus.

Gave it to Rama only a couple of times in the past when he had a severe mucus problem which did clear up.

[stosh2010]

I will post some photos of SEIS's "undercarriage" tomorrow....

[HRT4SQRLS]

This seems to be a recurrent problem with Seis. I think it might be possible that Seis has pyometritis.
Here is a link that gives information about it.

http://ratguide.com/health/reproductive/pyometra.php


Pyometra is described as a hormone mediated disorder where the uterine endometrial lining is abnormal, and the uterus becomes pus-filled and abscessed. When the condition is present toxins and bacteria can leak across the uterine walls and into the bloodstream resulting in bacteremia and sepsis.
Following estrous the uterine lining is made ready for pregnancy when the hormone, estrogen, stimulates another hormone, progesterone, to promote glandular secretion that aids in the thickening of the lining (endometrium) of the uterus.
When excessive amounts of these hormones persist, and estrous cycles continue without a pregnancy, they can cause an abnormal amount of engorgement in the endometrial glands and thickening of the tissue lining in the uterus. This is termed cystic endometrial hyperplasia. The distended glands, or developing cyst-like condition, releases secretions that can accumulate in the uterus setting up an ideal environment for the growth of bacteria from normal flora of the vagina or from an already present urinary tract infection. The result is a uterus that becomes infected and fills with pus. The condition is then known as pyometra.

Rosie and Stosh, a TSB squirrel was recently diagnosed with this condition by DrE.
It was treated by spaying. I know of another squirrel here in FL that has similar symptoms EVERY year in the spring during estrus. The animal stays swollen, appears to have a UTI and symptoms persist for weeks on end. It usually eventually resolves after a round of antibiotics. This is a YEARLY event. I'm beginning to think this might be the problem and possible more common in squirrels than we realize.

I would treat Seis with SMZ-TMP or Clavamox and see if it helps. IMO, the Ciprofloxacin has too narrow a spectrum for this. Of course, spaying would probably end this recurrent issue but I do realize that it's not possible.

[RamaMama]

This seems to be a recurrent problem with Seis. I think it might be possible that Seis has pyometritis.
Here is a link that gives information about it.

http://ratguide.com/health/reproductive/pyometra.php


Pyometra is described as a hormone mediated disorder where the uterine endometrial lining is abnormal, and the uterus becomes pus-filled and abscessed. When the condition is present toxins and bacteria can leak across the uterine walls and into the bloodstream resulting in bacteremia and sepsis.
Following estrous the uterine lining is made ready for pregnancy when the hormone, estrogen, stimulates another hormone, progesterone, to promote glandular secretion that aids in the thickening of the lining (endometrium) of the uterus.
When excessive amounts of these hormones persist, and estrous cycles continue without a pregnancy, they can cause an abnormal amount of engorgement in the endometrial glands and thickening of the tissue lining in the uterus. This is termed cystic endometrial hyperplasia. The distended glands, or developing cyst-like condition, releases secretions that can accumulate in the uterus setting up an ideal environment for the growth of bacteria from normal flora of the vagina or from an already present urinary tract infection. The result is a uterus that becomes infected and fills with pus. The condition is then known as pyometra.

Rosie and Stosh, a TSB squirrel was recently diagnosed with this condition by DrE.
It was treated by spaying. I know of another squirrel here in FL that has similar symptoms EVERY year in the spring during estrus. The animal stays swollen, appears to have a UTI and symptoms persist for weeks on end. It usually eventually resolves after a round of antibiotics. This is a YEARLY event. I'm beginning to think this might be the problem and possible more common in squirrels than we realize.

I would treat Seis with SMZ-TMP or Clavamox and see if it helps. IMO, the Ciprofloxacin has too narrow a spectrum for this. Of course, spaying would probably end this recurrent issue but I do realize that it's not possible.

Sorry it took so long for me to get back on here --- we have been dealing with a water emergency -- flooded here. Info and pix
on Rama's site.

Thank You HRT4SQURLS --- YES, this is what Dr. E said Luna has { she is the one who has had the ongoing / recurring problem for
years } SEIS has only recently, the past year or so had a couple of episodes; with this last one not going away.

Dr E said what is stated in the information, it will not cease or be cured completely UNLESS she had a hysterectomy...
I suppose now that is possibly also true for Seis.... the symptoms can be treated to a point but not cured.

I simply had HOPED that Seis DID have something cureable . Guess not

I have TMZ... exp. 5 / 2015

Seis weight approx 700 grms

Thanks for any help.
I may have to dose both Seis and Luna as Luna Tuna is swelling again.

[Nancy in New York]

What is the strength of your SMZ-TMP?

[RamaMama]

What is the strength of your SMZ-TMP?

960

[Nancy in New York]

Dosing sent for Seis.
Not sure how long Seis should be on SMZ-TMP for this recurring problem, so can others weigh in?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Rosie, I think this problem is associated with the fact that our inside squirrels come into heat and never get pregnant. This wouldn't happen in the wild. Most females have 2 litters a year and NR's have none. The article mentions "persisting hormones and estrus cycles continue without pregnancy". This inflammation sets up conditions for infection.

I thought of something else today. If you don't see improvement in a few days I would stack Metronidazole with the SMZ-TMP. The reproductive tract has mucous membranes. Mucous membranes are colonized with usual bacteria including anaerobes. It would be reasonable to include coverage for anaerobes in an infection like this. The Metronidazole will cover that. It might be sold under the name Flagyl. It's something to consider.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Dosing sent for Seis.
Not sure how long Seis should be on SMZ-TMP for this recurring problem, so can others weigh in?

I would start with 10 days and see where you're at then. I might continue longer if needed.

[RamaMama]

Rosie, I think this problem is associated with the fact that our inside squirrels come into heat and never get pregnant. This wouldn't happen in the wild. Most females have 2 litters a year and NR's have none. The article mentions "persisting hormones and estrus cycles continue without pregnancy". This inflammation sets up conditions for infection.

I thought of something else today. If you don't see improvement in a few days I would stack Metronidazole with the SMZ-TMP. The reproductive tract has mucous membranes. Mucous membranes are colonized with usual bacteria including anaerobes. It would be reasonable to include coverage for anaerobes in an infection like this. The Metronidazole will cover that. It might be sold under the name Flagyl. It's something to consider.

Seis has been on the SMZ for 8 1/2 days - - NO IMPROVEMENT !

Should I start her on the Metron..... ? ?

I have some: 500 mg

Seis - 700

Need PM doseing IF this is agreed by others......

Perhaps she should have been started on the Metron sooner ? ? While still on the SMZ????

HOW LONG should she be on either drug ? ? ?

No One ever came on to inform us.
thanks

[Nancy in New York]

Rosie I don't even know what you were dosing the SMZ for.
The length of treatment depends on what you're treating.
You typically have your squirrels on the antibiotics for so long,
I just figured you would ask when/if there is improvement.

Edit: If this was for a UTI, I believe the length is 7-10 days, but
they can be stubborn so sometimes it's longer.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Rosie, I would add the Metronidazole to cover for anaerobes. I'll send the dosing in a PM. We are treating for a 'presumed' uterine infection that seems to recur every time Seis is in estrus. The SMZ-TMP is a broad spectrum antibiotic. The metronidazole will add anaerobic coverage. I would continue for another week on the SMZ.. add the Metronidazole. It would be good to see if the two antibiotics together will make a difference. If this doesn't work I'm out of ideas. I REALLY hope this works.

[RamaMama]

I was not Johnny on the Spot reading HRT$SQRLS post about squirrel female probs and the
step to take...... just went out of my brain......... now it may be too late to use the two together.

Seis's vulva has been swollen huge for 3 months or more....... but other than it being
very swollen she shows no other signs of a UTI. When her vulva stays big for awhile she
stops eating or eats very little.
She did start eating after several days on the SMZ.... but she did that with other meds too.

April she was on Cipro for 11 days.... it too did nothing for the swelling.

Sorry, I was lax getting back on here....... two floods in less than two weeks have caused more
of an overwhelming feeling than before
I will try to pay more attention to getting back on here.

Thanks for ANY input.

[RamaMama]

Seis is on SMZ and now Metronidazole .... hopeully for the next 7 days. She does NOT
co-operate taking meds.

I mixed the Metro as prescribed with water......... i HOPE it is alright to remove the amount of
Med cc and then add it to Ensure and or my shake mix of boo ball honey and water.

Is it alright to administer the drugs this way ? ? ?

I had to give her the Metron in two rounds as she only drank half then refused. An hour or so
after the first half I gave her the rest.

??? Only way to get it in her.

[TubeDriver]

Yup, no problem. It might help her stomach to have some food at the same time. No interactions with milk products unlike some other ABs.




Seis is on SMZ and now Metronidazole .... hopeully for the next 7 days. She does NOT
co-operate taking meds.

I mixed the Metro as prescribed with water......... i HOPE it is alright to remove the amount of
Med cc and then add it to Ensure and or my shake mix of boo ball honey and water.

Is it alright to administer the drugs this way ? ? ?

I had to give her the Metron in two rounds as she only drank half then refused. An hour or so
after the first half I gave her the rest.

??? Only way to get it in her.

[Roxi's mom]

Thank you for your response TD..... I read the information.
Other than trying to find the drug "Elmiron" I am uncertain. Has anyone every tried Elmiron on
a squirrel ? ? ?

Although Seis has the enlarged or engorged Vulva, she has never had the same symptoms as Luna,
such as are attributed to a UTI. She does not act like she has to pee all the time or that she can't.
Nothing.
I have taken note that her nipples appear to remain a bit more noticeable; as though they are
slightly swollen.
Other than the swollen nipples and vulva, and being irritable, she has not shown any symptoms.
Maybe it is the problem in the article but I have no way of checking her to find out.


Maybe try some monostat cream for yeast if that is okay by one of the pros here. Human girls get yeast with no reason and with antibiotics, which could have worsened the yeast, so maybe a female squee can get a yeast infection too? Anyone concur?

[RamaMama]

Seis has been on SMZ -.. for 15 days........ Metronidazole - 6 days

NO IMPROVEMENT !

? ? ? ?

I am thinking I need to stop these meds as she simply is not responding at all.

Remember, Seis also has Diabetes.

Does anyone have any further advice or suggestions.... a hysterectomy would be great.
but no Vet here to do it.

[TubeDriver]

I don't know what to do next. My inclination for AB treatment is to continue for the full course of AB treatment, sometimes they are doing work that is just not very noticeable? Then at least you can say that she did NOT respond to a "full" course, and rule out that treatment completely.

:grouphug

[RamaMama]

I don't know what to do next. My inclination
for AB treatment is to continue for the full course of AB treatment, sometimes they are doing work that is just not very noticeable? Then at least you can say that she did NOT respond to a "full" course, and rule out that treatment completely.

:grouphug
But Seis has Already been on the SMZ... for 15 days..... that is as long as anyone uses it........ I thought .

Or do you mean because she was not on the Metro at the same time ? ? ?

Didn't give her the SMZ last night but she did get the Metro..
I can start her back on both today IF that is the consensus of TSB Rehabbers !

Please confer and confirm....

She has been on A LOT of AB's for a couple of months now Just concerned her body
is becoming overwhelmed with drugs.

Let us know.
Thanks ! ! ! .

[TubeDriver]

15 days is probably long enough for the SMZ and 6 days is probably long enough for the Metro. HRT4SQYRL can probably give a more definative answer but if there was no change up to this point then it is probably unlikely to help.