ODONTOMA PREVENTION FOLLOWING TOOTH TRAUMA?

[Trooper]

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Back on August 2016, Trooper showed up one day with a broken right (his right) top incisor. He did not seem to bother any about the loss and because the corresponding bottom right incisor was healthy, it is now keeping the broken root of the top one from growing (one can see the wear marks of the bottom tooth on the broken stub above).

It is not very clear in the pics, but you get the picture. My concern is that after reading on the potential causes of odontoma and the recent loss of some of our members squirrels to this tumor, and apparently all the writings one can read on the subject indicate either genetic or trauma sources for the tumor, I wanted to take Trooper to get a digital X-ray baseline to see if anything is there or not, if anything grows in the future by comparison with his baseline X-rays, we would have early warning.

My vet is somewhat handy with dental care, and she ground-off the bottom incisor to see if it would let the upper broken one have a chance to grow, but it did not help much.

So I was wondering if anyone knows a good vet on the west coast, especially California that specializes on these types of problems (regular vets or even those claiming to be rodent-savvy don't measure up to these more complicated dental problems).

I can take Trooper anywhere he might need to go if the advise and recommendation is worthwhile. I want to give him all and any chance to make it to old age along with our family.

Any word of advise will be appreciated!

Trooper's dad.

[TubeDriver]

There are lots of theories about what causes odontoma but no really knows for sure. Trauma seems to be a risk factor for potential future problems but I dont know how to calculate that risk.

That tooth injury looks like the root of the tooth is involved? Is that photo from right after the injury? How does it look now? We want to see that broken tooth growing back and maintaing decent alignment to allow for correct wear. It should certainly have grown back at this point. If the tooth is not growing back in, then perhaps the root was severly damaged and it might need removal at some point? You can certainly get an xray to see if there us any abnormal growth inwards from the tooth root. An xray is the only way to really diagnose odontoma. So I guess my real question is is that photo recent or from around the time if the original injury?

[Nancy in New York]

I can take Trooper anywhere he might need to go if the advise and recommendation is worthwhile. I want to give him all and any chance to make it to old age along with our family.

Any word of advise will be appreciated!

Trooper's dad.

By far the best exotic vet that specializes in squirrel's teeth issues is Dr. Alicia Emerson in Port Orange Florida.
She has done numerous members squirrels from all over the country.
She is a very busy woman, but perhaps you can call and ask her for a referral to a great vet in your area.
OR you can take a trip cross country for a visit. :)
http://www.ravenwoodvet.net/our-doctors/

Directions
4540 S Clyde Morris Blvd, Port Orange, FL 32129

Call
(386) 788-1550

[Trooper]

Nancy and Tubedriver; thank you both for your reply. The pictures are from when the damage was discovered in August 2016, but today he looks exactly the same, with the exception that the wear marks on the broken tooth keep on changing patterns. This would indicate the tooth is growing (an in fact when the vet trimmed it in November 2016, the broken tooth grew 1/32" longer).

The breakage is right at the gum line, so my suspicion from looking at X-rays of squees skulls is that the tooth root would be much higher up the nasal cavity area.

I will give the vet in FL a call today and see what develops.

Thank you both again for replying to my quest!

Trooper's dad

[Rexie]

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Back on August 2016, Trooper showed up one day with a broken right (his right) top incisor. He did not seem to bother any about the loss and because the corresponding bottom right incisor was healthy, it is now keeping the broken root of the top one from growing (one can see the wear marks of the bottom tooth on the broken stub above).

It is not very clear in the pics, but you get the picture. My concern is that after reading on the potential causes of odontoma and the recent loss of some of our members squirrels to this tumor, and apparently all the writings one can read on the subject indicate either genetic or trauma sources for the tumor, I wanted to take Trooper to get a digital X-ray baseline to see if anything is there or not, if anything grows in the future by comparison with his baseline X-rays, we would have early warning.

My vet is somewhat handy with dental care, and she ground-off the bottom incisor to see if it would let the upper broken one have a chance to grow, but it did not help much.

So I was wondering if anyone knows a good vet on the west coast, especially California that specializes on these types of problems (regular vets or even those claiming to be rodent-savvy don't measure up to these more complicated dental problems).

I can take Trooper anywhere he might need to go if the advise and recommendation is worthwhile. I want to give him all and any chance to make it to old age along with our family.

Any word of advise will be appreciated!

Trooper's dad.I hope you can find a fantastic vet to take him to. It's clear by your words how important he is to you and the family.

[TubeDriver]

Can you post a current photo of his teeth?

[Trooper]

Tubedriver: I will take pictures tonight and post them, although they'll look just about the same. Being that he lets me put my fingers on his mouth, I tried many times to move the broken stub and it always seem as solid on his skull, as the healthy one.

Also there is no reaction on his part when I fiddle with the broken tooth (which I’ve done numerous times since the event), giving me the impression he is not hurting. That impression is also accentuated by the fact that he keeps on gnawing and breaking nuts (walnuts, brazil nuts and hazelnuts being his favorite) without any trouble. However it seems that the corresponding bottom right incisor, as it continually grows on rodents, is eroding the broken upper stub and prevents it from growing to normal length.

Trooper's dad

Here is Trooper when he was 2 years old:
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[Trooper]

This picture of a squee's skull will give you a better idea of where the tooth is broken. The red line on the right upper incisor is where the breakage is located. The bottom part of the tooth shown on the picture below the red line is the tooth part that is gone:
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[California Squirrel Lover]

I love that cutie pie Trooper!! :serene

[Rexie]

Omg......that picture is absolutely perfect!!!!! I love him. How old is Trooper now by the way??

[Trooper]

O.K. Tubedriver, we finally got some pics tonight after a few tries. He was very playful and did not want to mind, but eventually he did. Trooper is 5 years and 7 months old (was born July 23, 2011).
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Trooper's dad

[TubeDriver]

I am no tooth expert, but I am worried that this tooth is not regrowing. A basic broke tooth usually regrows in a matter of weeks. If it not regrowing, than I would think that the tooth root may have been injured and the tooth is not regenerating.

Trooper is a super cute little fellow (I love that very distinguished double paw tuck pose)!:w00t

I don't want to needlessly worry you about this, but if the opportunity comes up to see a vet with squirrel tooth experience, I would take it. You mentioned that there is a wear point on the injured tooth but I cant see how the mechanics would work, he has 3 full length teeth. On the other hand, the lower 2 teeth look perfect so he is managing to get even wear despite basically missing a tooth. Very curious.

[Jen413]

I've got a guy who's top tooth broke exactly like that. Had that black looking little part. You can see pictures of both of his on post #83 and #90 here:
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?55205-Sammy-Baby/page5

It took a few weeks to grow back but it eventually did. Oddly enough about a week later the tooth on the bottom right below it just completely disappeared. He lost the bottom on 10/20 and it reappeared around the end of January. and has just now gotten to where it looks normal. Although now it's crooked. He's had teeth issues from the get go though. Hope that may in some way help? Do you trim his teeth at all? Maybe the one directly below should be trimmed shorter so the upper will grow back in normally?

[pappy1264]

Ok, I went through this with my Peanut (who I lost on Dec. 20). I am also going through it with Logan (his top tooth looks exactly the same as Troopers). My vet told me she would not attempt to do surgery on Peanut as his top teeth were not visible (but were growing inside on xray.) As a side note, Peanut DID have his uppers, and they appeared normal (he took a bad fall to cement as a baby). Then about a year ago, one day his teeth were just gone. Logan has one tooth out like your boy. I will be bringing him in for xrays. I suggest xrays to see what is going on with the other tooth. My heart goes out to you having walked this path. Peanut was my world.

[Trooper]

Thank you all for the commentary, advise and personal stories of similar nature. I appreciate those especially, because it give us some perspective on the situation.

I have already contacted the vet in FL that Nancy in NY recommended (sent an email with pics yesterday), so we'll see if there is someone in CA that can review Trooper's case or if we need to take a trip to the sunshine state.

I also will schedule for an X-ray of his jaw to see what is going on there with my local vet. Additionally, on Tubedriver's comment about the mechanics of wear; I have pondered why after our vet ground off both bottom incisors by 1/8", then the broken tooth grew back. I've been able to look at the top broken stub with a 10X monocle eye loupe and it is evident that the bottom corresponding right incisor is wearing the top broken stub. The breakage is smooth and polished and the bottom incisor has also a weird slanted wear pattern.

Whatever the case, the bottom teeth on squirrels are worn out (eroded) when they gnaw at things (antlers, aluminum siding, shells, rocks) . My theory why the bottom incisor is wearing the top broken stub and keeping it from growing, is by watching how Trooper eats or opens hard shell nuts:
1- He holds the nut (a hazelnut in this case) with both his hands and he rests the upper incisor on top of the nut with the open mouth.
2-He then uses the bottom incisors as a scraper, with an upwards motion on the shell of the nut as to trying to find a crack or point where the shell will weaken and create a hole.
3-Once a crack or hole has been created, he will then use the bottom teeth as a soda pop bottle cap opener (in fact it looks just like that), where he will wedge the bottom teeth in the crack/hole and with an upper motion of his entire head, he will try to open or crack completely the nut, exposing the kernel.
4-Now sometimes in the attempts on opening the nut, his bottom teeth get loaded with shell debris, and he will stop and re-adjust his bottom teeth against the top ones as in when they are mad and are chattering, but you know this is no chatter of anger, but just teeth adjustment.
5- In the process of wearing the shell with his bottoms teeth, he will also miss about 25 to 30% of the scraping motion, with the result that the bottom incisors will skate over the shell surface and hit the upper teeth.
6- This 30% miss is what I attribute to hitting the broken tooth and wearing its growth. We must remember that squirrels bottom teeth grow in the average of 6 inches per year. When you do the math, that is equal to 1/64 inch a day (0.0164") or about half the thickness of a credit card. This small amount can be eroded by that 30% miss by just having two nuts a day.

It is nice to make predictions and formulate theories, but at the end of the day he is going to have X-rays and see what the experts recommend we do after that.

Here is Trooper celebrating Saint Patty Day. He loves wearing hats, because he has a change to chew them if I am not looking at him::w00t
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[Jen413]

Dr. E is fantastic. Sammy (along with his front teeth issues) crushed his jaw when he fell as a baby. He ended up with a hole in the roof of his mouth that wouldn't close. The dead bone caused infection and he also had dead molars. I say all of this because I just got back from Florida on Sunday after taking Sammy to see Dr. E. She removed 4 molars and closed the hole in his mouth. She also neutered him for me.

I got her email address and emailed her all of Sammy's injury photos I'd taken along the way. She emailed me back within hours and called me that night. She knew exactly what the issue was having seen the pictures. Not only will she see your baby if you go to Florida, she is willing to help a willing vet that is local to you do what needs to be done. She is absolutely fantastic and I feel so fortunate to have been able to take my boy to her!! Well worth the trip.

BTW, those hats are adorable. Sammy would probably kill me if I tried to do that to him. He thinks he's too cool to play dress up with Momma!