Infection on cheek near eye

[olorin19]

Dustin is a male, almost 2.5 years old. (I have several other threads with his history, so will not repeat all the details.)

Anyways, he has been thriving in the wilds of my backyard since being re-released in early September after a summer recovering from a severe abscess in left ankle joint. Two nights ago, I noticed he was swollen on the cheek under his right eye. So yesterday morning when he came out of his nest box, I brought him back inside then took him to the vet. She says the eye itself is fine, but there is definitely an infection there under the eye, with a large scab. She thinks likely a scratch, but maybe even a tooth infection. I started him on clavamox last night, the plan being to keep him inside with me until the infection clears up, then a couple more days on probiotics.

Question: Is it okay to use Derma Gel right by the eye? If not, is there anything else I could be doing?

I will get a photo later today when there is another set of hands here, but holding Dustin and trying to snap a photo with an ipad is beyond my two hands, and I have not managed to get one when is still enough otherwise.

[Spanky]

I do not have knowledge about the Dermagel, but I have seen folks post that it is not toxic so licking it is not a danger. A picture would be a big help for folks to advise about using Dermagel as the nearness to the eye may play a factor. :dono

Using Terramycin or some other Ophthalmic (eye) antibiotic would help with any possible eye infection and / or help prevent an infection from spreading to Dustin's eye if it is not infected now.

If Dustin does not start responding to the Clavamox in a few days, you might considering asking the vet about using Clindamycin. Clavamox is not a bad choice, since it is effective against bone, mouth and skin infections (among others) but Clindamycin seems especially effective in infections involving the head and neck (downside is that it tastes awful, so harder to dose!). :thumbsup

And if he does not respond to the antibiotics (or God forbid later redevelops) an x-ray would determine if there is any underlying teeth issues....

[olorin19]

Thanks, Spanky

Here are two photos - the one with the closed eye is not due to swelling, Dustin just had his eye shut for that one.

283588283589

[Spanky]

Oh my, poor Dustin!

Were it me I would definitely try to treat that eye with Terramycin or Neosporin type of Ophthalmic (specifically for eyes!) antibiotics. I would think the solution would be easy to get in the eye than the ointment, but you know Dustin best! I treated HBC wild with a nasty eye injury recently, but I had to abandon putting anything directly in his eye as those wrestling episodes seemed to causing him more distress than perhaps the good terramycin may have been doing (he did receive a course of oral antibiotics). But this was a true wild, not one of my releases.

Is he eating okay and not having difficulty with chewing? Giving him an in the shell nut and observing may be a good idea to assess if he might be having any problems in that arena.

When looking head on to Dustin, how significant is that swelling? Difficult to see in pictures from that angle.

[olorin19]

Thanks, Spanky

I had not noticed anything off with his eating, and I know he did eat a walnut in the shell yesterday. But i will watch carefully and make sure his chewing is okay - good idea, thanks.

Are these opthalmics prescription items?

Here are some photos head on to give some idea of the swelling

283600283601283602283603

[Spanky]

Are these opthalmics prescription items?


Tractor Supply Stocks it (decent price too!) if you have those around:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/pfizer-terramycin-opthalmic-ointment-1-8-oz

Chris tries to have it at Squirrels and more but it looks like she is out of it at the moment.... sells out quick
https://www.squirrelsandmore.com/products/terramycin-opthalmic-ointment

Some Amazon sellers have it (for more $$) but a longer delivery time... (10 days?)... "Prime" seller is out of stock.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00063KGUK/ref=sr_1_1_olp?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1485034422&sr=1-1&keywords=Terramycin+Ophthalmic&condition=new

Doctors Foster and Smith have it in stock, not sure of shipping time (or costs?).
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9674&cmpid=01cseYY&ref=6191&subref=AA&cmpid=PLA_G_6191&gclid=CjwKEAiAqozEBRDJrPem0fPKtX0SJAD5sAyHTPZWkdu6 FpREnmzRwSVGd86UTyJaChBJRvmcgP5QDRoCTSfw_wcB

The swelling looks better than I had imagined, but it is good to have both head on and side views because the head on does not show the redness and general irritation of the area.

If you can get some Terramycin quickly, I would definitely recommend it if you think Dustin will cooperate?
(edit: By "quickly" I mean to say that 10 day expected arrival time on some of those links probably would take too long to do Dustin much good!)

Prayers that he'll respond to the antibiotics and you'll see improvement quickly. While you never want infections to get out of control, that is especially true with injuries like this... keep us posted!


Here are some photos head on to give some idea of the swelling

[olorin19]

Thanks, Spanky, glad I asked!

Just got off the phone with TSC and they have t-mycin, so I am off to get a tube. Dustin just bedded down for the night, so I will start him on that tomorrow morning.

[olorin19]

283630

Started the t-mycin this morning.

Photo is today - prior to any t-mycin, and after three doses of clavamox (Friday pm then twice Saturday). Dustin does look much improved to me: the skin is more pink and less red, eye more open, etc.

Dustin ate an unshelled hazelnut with no problem last night. While he did seem to chew more on the left, this may not mean anything.

He is certainly full of energy, exploring my house. (He had not been inside since his re-release in early September, and I am in the final stages of remodeling, so lots of new stuff for Dustin to explore. Besides the three months inside last summer, he was largely inside from when I got him in Septemebr 2014 until first release spring 2015, so my house is familiar.)

I did find two scabs on the back of his neck (derma gel for these). Any chance these head scabs come from the back legs of another squirrel? If so, a male he was chasing, or a female? Any ideas?

[olorin19]

Just gave Dustin a whole pecan, and he effortlessly shelled it. He does not seem to favor either side for chewing - in particular, he took some vigorous bites way up on the right side nearest the scab with no apparent discomfort or hesitation. So, I do not believe there is a dental issue here. Plus, the other two scabs (one is tiny, the other maybe half the size of the one on the face) point to an altercation. Neither of these other scabs is visible, I only found the first one while applying the t-mycin this morning. After that, i examined him all over, and these three are all I can find. The two on the neck may even be older - and no fur loss involved on these.

[olorin19]

Scab on cheek has come off, either on its own or by Dustin scratching. Dustin has been running around my house the past 5.5 hours, lots of energy and looking good.

This looks to be healing well. Earlier photo was after three doses clavamox and no t-mycin - this is after four does clavamox and 1 t-mycin.

Not able to get the t-mycin into eye, but spread it liberally on scab and onto eyelids, etc.

Dustin did not seem bothered by the t-mycin, it is more the dropper in the mouth and horrible taste that he dislikes.

By the way, the eye just happens to be closed in this photo - it is not swollen shut or anything like that.

283636

[olorin19]

While it is hard to tell from the photo, the wound has some depth to it and looks like a slash. My best guess is that Dustin was clawed, whether front claws or rear.

[Nancy in New York]

Wow that area looks SO much better! :w00t

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-29V73Vk/0/S/i-29V73Vk-S.jpghttps://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Hcfzdgn/0/S/i-Hcfzdgn-S.jpg

[Spanky]

I agree with Nancy, Dustin seems to be doing extremely well! :woot

[olorin19]

Thanks Spanky (and Nancy)

Here is Dustin this morning -

283655

[olorin19]

Dustin's cheek continues to improve - I did not manage to get a photo this morning, but I would say the depth of the wound seems to be filling in quite well.

A few days ago, I noticed a decent size scab plus a smaller one on the back of his neck. Neither was visible, and I only noticed them when handling him for his clavamox and t-mycin. Last night and even more this morning, in the area of the larger scab there is a soft mass under the skin that can be moved around under my finger somewhat. Any ideas? I am putting derma gel on it twice daily.

It kind of reminds me of fatty cysts on people, in that it is quite mobile and does not seem painful to Dustin. Then again, it is large enough that I do not see how I did not notice it when I first felt the scab. Then again/again, Dustin was squirming about, so I might have missed it.

With the cheek alone, I would guess that clavamox would not be needed much longer. My plan is to keep Dustin inside about two days past the clavamox to give him lots of probiotics to get his gut back in shape. Giving him probiotics every time her gets clavamox, his gut seems much less stressed (judging by poop) than during the clavamox last summer.

[Spanky]

The wounds on the back of Dustin's neck make me wonder if something got a hold of him but he was able to escape?

I would keep him on the Clavamox a full 10 days. Best guess with the small mass on the next is that there is some infectious puss under the scab. If it is puss, draining would help progress the healing... minimally keep track and see if is seems to be getting smaller each day. I know that may be difficult to judge if it is pretty small.

I don't believe you are saying the probiotics are given at the same time as the Clavamox, but just in case...
Best to give the probiotics a couple hours after the Clavamox instead of with it, the idea being to restore good flora to the gut the Clavamox kills off with each dose.

[island rehabber]

WOw, that wound looks so much better. I'm inclined to agree with Spanky that something got hold of him around his head and punctured both eye and back of the neck where you found that other wound. Abcesses do pop up later after incidents like this, and if you feel a lump or cyst-like thing it is most likely an abcess forming. Yes, keep him on the ABs for 10 days as suggested....you don't want another abcess taking hold after you've done such a good job with the first one!

[olorin19]

The wounds on the back of Dustin's neck make me wonder if something got a hold of him but he was able to escape?

I would keep him on the Clavamox a full 10 days. Best guess with the small mass on the next is that there is some infectious puss under the scab. If it is puss, draining would help progress the healing... minimally keep track and see if is seems to be getting smaller each day. I know that may be difficult to judge if it is pretty small.

I don't believe you are saying the probiotics are given at the same time as the Clavamox, but just in case...
Best to give the probiotics a couple hours after the Clavamox instead of with it, the idea being to restore good flora to the gut the Clavamox kills off with each dose.

Thanks Spanky

Perhaps a hawk or falcon? I am not sure what else around here could have grabbed him around the head/neck.

I will take a good look (and feel) of the neck tonight.

Understood on the relationship (and relative purposes) of antibiotics and probiotics, thanks.

[olorin19]

Dustin is now 5.5 days (11 of 20 doses of 0.5 ml) through the 10 days of clavamox and 4 days of t-mycin.

The wound on the right cheek that originally drew my attention looks great, just a small scab and no swelling, etc.

There are what appear to be two abscesses on back of the neck near shoulder on the right side. They are somewhat smaller than a few days ago, and do not feel as liquidy or full. No obvious sign of discharge, so perhaps being reabsorbed? They are both quite superficial, just below the skin.

I just noticed (after his nightly treatment, so seeing this on a moving target) that on his left rear foot one of the toes seems quite red.

At this point, my best theory is that a cat grabbed him but Dustin got away with a few scratches and perhaps two punctures (neck).

Dustin has a good appetite and lots of energy.

Several related questions:

Any advantage to adding clindamycin to the mix? If so, start now, wait until after clavamox is done, or take a few days in between?
Also, I have a bottle of clindamycin from August. It has a 10/31/2016 expiration date stamped on it. Is this still good, or should I get another bottle? (It takes me about 90 minutes or more to go to the vets and back, so hoping to avoid the trip, but happy to do that if needed.)

Thanks!

[Nancy in New York]

Dustin is now 5.5 days (11 of 20 doses of 0.5 ml) through the 10 days of clavamox and 4 days of t-mycin.

The wound on the right cheek that originally drew my attention looks great, just a small scab and no swelling, etc.

There are what appear to be two abscesses on back of the neck near shoulder on the right side. They are somewhat smaller than a few days ago, and do not feel as liquidy or full. No obvious sign of discharge, so perhaps being reabsorbed? They are both quite superficial, just below the skin.

I just noticed (after his nightly treatment, so seeing this on a moving target) that on his left rear foot one of the toes seems quite red.

At this point, my best theory is that a cat grabbed him but Dustin got away with a few scratches and perhaps two punctures (neck).

Dustin has a good appetite and lots of energy.

Several related questions:

Any advantage to adding clindamycin to the mix? If so, start now, wait until after clavamox is done, or take a few days in between?
Also, I have a bottle of clindamycin from August. It has a 10/31/2016 expiration date stamped on it. Is this still good, or should I get another bottle? (It takes me about 90 minutes or more to go to the vets and back, so hoping to avoid the trip, but happy to do that if needed.)

Thanks!

WOW .5 seems like a huge dose. Is this amount given twice daily?
What is the strength on the Clavamox?
How much does Dustin weigh?

[olorin19]

WOw, that wound looks so much better. I'm inclined to agree with Spanky that something got hold of him around his head and punctured both eye and back of the neck where you found that other wound. Abcesses do pop up later after incidents like this, and if you feel a lump or cyst-like thing it is most likely an abcess forming. Yes, keep him on the ABs for 10 days as suggested....you don't want another abcess taking hold after you've done such a good job with the first one!

Thanks

Between Dustin and my NR Ziggy, a challenge keeping up on email! Ziggy prefers to be on me or in my shirt. But as he will fall if I am not careful, I am getting quite adept at typing with one hand!

[olorin19]

WOW .5 seems like a huge dose. Is this amount given twice daily?
What is the strength on the Clavamox?
How much does Dustin weigh?

Vet recommended 0.25 ml 2x daily. I checked my thread from last summer (Abscess on rear leg), and was told then to double up to 0.5 ml 2x daily. So I did the same dose this time.

Is this okay?

[Nancy in New York]

Vet recommended 0.25 ml 2x daily. I checked my thread from last summer (Abscess on rear leg), and was told then to double up to 0.5 ml 2x daily. So I did the same dose this time.

Is this okay?

Do you know what the strength is on the Clavamox?
Also do you know the weight of Dustin?
We dose by weight, but if the strength of your Clavamox is 62.5mg/ml that dose is huge,
unless he weighs ~1500 grams. :)

[Nancy in New York]

Is this what your Clavamox looks like?
Did you make this up fresh, or is it from last year?
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NbgT69j/0/M/i-NbgT69j-M.jpg

[Nancy in New York]

Vet recommended 0.25 ml 2x daily. I checked my thread from last summer (Abscess on rear leg), and was told then to double up to 0.5 ml 2x daily. So I did the same dose this time.

Is this okay?

I looked on your old thread and didn't see where you doubled,
or any dosing amount for the Clavamox. Perhaps I missed it. :dono
I saw where the Clindamycin was increased a little. :dono
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?54703-Dustin-Abscess-on-rear-leg&highlight=

[olorin19]

WOW .5 seems like a huge dose. Is this amount given twice daily?
What is the strength on the Clavamox?
How much does Dustin weigh?

Clavamox suspension w 50 mg per ml of amoxicillin. Dustin is maybe 575 g. I was told last summer by Spanky that the 0.25 ml 2x was half what was needed, so he got 0.5 ml 2 x daily. Yes, this is fresh bottle just reconstituted on Friday, kept refrigerated since then, and well shaken for each dose.

[olorin19]

I looked on your old thread and didn't see where you doubled,
or any dosing amount for the Clavamox. Perhaps I missed it. :dono
I saw where the Clindamycin was increased a little. :dono
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?54703-Dustin-Abscess-on-rear-leg&highlight=



There are two threads. The first is Abscess on rear leg. If you look on page 2 of 3, you will see the part on the clavamox dosage. I started a second thread later called Dustin - Abscess on rear leg, which is probably what you checked?

[olorin19]

There are two threads. The first is Abscess on rear leg. If you look on page 2 of 3, you will see the part on the clavamox dosage. I started a second thread later called Dustin - Abscess on rear leg, which is probably what you checked?

I will stick to a single thread in the future, no matter how long!

[Nancy in New York]

OK hold on a minute, trying to get a photo of the WMB book up here to show you the dosing.

[Nancy in New York]

Clavamox suspension w 50 mg per ml of amoxicillin. Dustin is maybe 575 g. I was told last summer by Spanky that the 0.25 ml 2x was half what was needed, so he got 0.5 ml 2 x daily. Yes, this is fresh bottle just reconstituted on Friday, kept refrigerated since then, and well shaken for each dose.

OK if what you have is 50mg Amoxi and 12.5 Clavulinic you get 62.5 mg/ml
That's the strength the book doses at according to their weight.
For a squirrel that weighs 575 grams, the dose would be 0.18 twice daily.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/Bronx%20Babies%202012/Bronx%20Babies%20%20part%202%20%202012/Wild%20Mammal%20Babies%20Medical%20Section/2034.jpg (http://s673.photobucket.com/user/nancym518/media/Bronx%20Babies%202012/Bronx%20Babies%20%20part%202%20%202012/Wild%20Mammal%20Babies%20Medical%20Section/2034.jpg.html)

[Nancy in New York]

Just for anyone reading this is what was written by HRT4SQRLS last year.


Here's the deal.... there is confusion regarding dosing of Clavamox because it is a combo antibiotic (Amoxicillin + Clavulanic Acid). In this case 50mg/ml of Amoxicillin and 12.5mg/ml of Clavulanic acid.

The Wild Mammal Baby book adds all combo drugs and calculates the dosing based on the total. In other words the dosing is based on the 62.5 mg/ml total.
Based on this the dose for a 570g squirrel would be 0.18ml.

This is the way other combo drugs are calculated like SMZ-TMP. It is a combo of Sulfamethoxizole and Trimethoprim. Both components are an antibiotic. The concentration of each drug is added together.

The issue with Clavamox is that only the Amoxicillin is an antibiotic. The Clavulanic acid portion is not an antibiotic. It is a beta lactamase inhibitor. I won't talk about that right now because it isn't relevant to this discussion.

There are 2 schools of thought. Those that add the 2 together like the WMB book and those that use ONLY the antibiotic portion (Amoxicillin) to calculate the dosing which in this case would be 50mg/ml.
Based on this, the dose for a 570g squirrel would be 0.23ml.

If you look at the difference in dosing between the two methods ... 0.18 vs 0.23... the difference is not very large. Actually it is within the margin of error when dosing with a crude device like a 1cc syringe.

More that likely your vet dosed based on the 50mg/ml to get the 0.25ml dose. Because you don't have a true weight on the squirrel and are using an estimated weight, I think the dose that he has prescribed is good, so I would stick with this.
If you wanted to bump it down a little that would be OK but without an accurate weight, I don't think it's necessary.

Please let me know if I have totally confused everyone. :tilt

[olorin19]

:tap

OK if what you have is 50mg Amoxi and 12.5 Clavulinic you get 62.5 mg/ml
That's the strength the book doses at according to their weight.
For a squirrel that weighs 575 grams, the dose would be 0.18 twice daily.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/Bronx%20Babies%202012/Bronx%20Babies%20%20part%202%20%202012/Wild%20Mammal%20Babies%20Medical%20Section/2034.jpg (http://s673.photobucket.com/user/nancym518/media/Bronx%20Babies%202012/Bronx%20Babies%20%20part%202%20%202012/Wild%20Mammal%20Babies%20Medical%20Section/2034.jpg.html)

Wow do I feel stupid. I just went back and kept reading the thread from last summer, and realized there was the same confusion then on my part. The dose used last summer was indeed 0.18 ml 2x daily.

Thanks so much, Nancy, for saving Dustin from my mistake.

[olorin19]

Just for anyone reading this is what was written by HRT4SQRLS last year.

Ok, then 0.25 ml 2x is what I will do, thanks.

[Nancy in New York]

Ok, then 0.25 ml 2x is what I will do, thanks.

Yup you saw the range and how different people dose using the one number, or combining the two numbers.
In the WMB book they DO combine both numbers and then the dose would be 0.18.
Yes, you can give 0.25 twice daily! :w00t
But as HRT4SQRLS wrote below:
If you look at the difference in dosing between the two methods ... 0.18 vs 0.23... the difference is not very large. Actually it is within the margin of error when dosing with a crude device like a 1cc syringe.

More that likely your vet dosed based on the 50mg/ml to get the 0.25ml dose. Because you don't have a true weight on the squirrel and are using an estimated weight, I think the dose that he has prescribed is good, so I would stick with this.

I'm so glad Dustin is doing so well, great job!!!!!!!!!!!

[olorin19]

Update:

Dustin has now been on clavamox for a full week, and t-mycin for six days.

Many thanks to Nancy for her persistence in getting the clavamox dosage corrected to 0.25 ml 2x daily.

The right cheek under the eye looks great. Kind of just a red line there now.

The toe on the right rear foot also looks fine, probably just a minor scratch, but no sign of infection there.

The two abscesses on the left neck are much smaller, despite no obvious sign of drainage. Photos will not help here, as there has been zero fur loss and even the scabs are not really visible. they no longer seem liquidy - it is like their inside is sort of crusty like the scab, if that makes sense. I have tried warm compresses, but not had any success in managing to hold Dustin still for any length of time. I am applying derma gel to these 2x daily.

In ideal world where Dustin would hold still, would working the scabs off and trying to open these up be helpful? If "yes", I am not quite sure how I would manage, but would be willing to try. When it is meds time for Dustin, I start out wearing my big thick leather mittens. Dustin is quite fond of these, as they smell like him from being used with him for most of his life. (If I leave them out, he tries to crawl inside.) Once I have him against my belly, I then take off one mitten - i.e. I am holding him with a mittened hand while doing what needs doing with the other. While he has not tried to bite, I do feel better with the mitten. He does wriggle around when I am giving him the ABs (or anything involving sticking a dropper in his mouth). He is pretty good when it is just me examining him or applying salves. But I would guess that picking at the scab would result in some serious wriggling.

This morning, I thought I might have seen a similar thing (to the neck abscesses) on one of his elbows. Hard to tell, and I try and limit my holding him for treatment to twice daily. So, I will check the elbow out tonight.

If the abscesses are still present after 10 days (Monday morning), should I try clindamycin?

If so, take a few days in between or start right away?
Also, I have a bottle of clindamycin from August. It has a 10/31/2016 expiration date stamped on it. Is this still good, or should I get another bottle? (It takes me about 90 minutes or more to go to the vets and back, so hoping to avoid the trip, but happy to do that if needed.)

[olorin19]

Update on Dustin:

Tomorrow (Monday) morning will complete the 10 days of clavamox twice daily for Dustin. He will also have had 9 days of t-mycin twice daily on the originally noticed abscess on the right cheek. The cheek looks almost completely normal, only a slight red mark. I have no worries about the cheek, eye, teeth, etc.

In addition to the two abscesses on the left/back of neck /shoulder, there was also one on the right elbow. The two on the neck/shoulder were at least chickpea size originally, but far smaller now. The elbow abscess was never as large. At no point have I noticed any drainage from any of these three. I cannot say for sure whether the two on the neck/shoulder were there all along or whether they developed. There has never been anything visible on the neck/shoulder, not even any loss of fur. I did notice the on on the elbow as the scab did stick up a bit when he leaned on the foreleg. The two on the neck/shoulder have had liberal application of derma gel twice daily for 8 days and the one on the elbow for 5 days.

When first discovered, the abscesses seemed softer and more liquidy, whereas in recent days at they shrink their internal texture seems different, like they are drying out. They are all sort of flat on the surface, with sort of a plateau that is defined by the scab. The edges of the scab can easily be felt. And again, they do seem like they keep getting smaller, although minus the scab they may still be something like 40% of original volume. My sense is that the scabs are going to come off on their own, but also that this will likely take a bit more time.

As a bare minimum, I would keep Dustin inside for 3 days after the clavamox to give him extra probiotics and get his gut back in shape. (His poop has actually been quite good, not as impacted by the clavamox as last summer.) I would also like to make to release him when he has a few relatively warm days so he can get used to the outdoors again.

Assuming I do not notice the abscesses growing or getting worse after we finish the clavamox, should I wait for the scabs to come off before releasing him?

I am happy to keep him indoors as long as needed, but also mindful that Dustin would very much like to get on with important squirrel matters, which are best accomplished outdoors.

Any comments or guidance much appreciated!

[Nancy in New York]

I think the thought is that since abscesses can come easily come back, we like to see NO sign
of them remaining.
You can keep him on Clavamox longer. I'm glad he's tolerating it better this time around.
Is there anyway that you can get a photo of the ones in question?
Did you or your vet ever lance these?
I'm going to direct a couple of members here who are much more familiar with abscesses.

I'm thrilled that he's improving, and I'm also happy he has you to watch over him.

[SammysMom]

I'm sorry to say, but until they are totally GONE, I would not release him. If there is any chance that bone could be involved int he infected area, the Clindamycin may be in order. Pics would be very helpful, but I know they are not easy to get.

[Nancy in New York]

I'm sorry to say, but until they are totally GONE, I would not release him. If there is any chance that bone could be involved int he infected area, the Clindamycin may be in order. Pics would be very helpful, but I know they are not easy to get.

Thank you Gayle! :blowkiss

[HRT4SQRLS]

I'm glad to hear that Dustin is improving so fast. More than likely, Dustin is fine and the wounds will continue to heal. I don't see a problem with holding him a little longer out of an abundance of caution. The weather is cold and I'm sure that more pampering and food will get him in prime shape for release. More than likely he will go back out there and start fighting again over the ladies as he defends his territory. Having this round of wounds healed might help with differentiating future battle wounds vs recurrence of old infections.

That Dustin... he a scrapper isn't he! :grin2

[olorin19]

I think the thought is that since abscesses can come easily come back, we like to see NO sign
of them remaining.
You can keep him on Clavamox longer. I'm glad he's tolerating it better this time around.
Is there anyway that you can get a photo of the ones in question?
Did you or your vet ever lance these?
I'm going to direct a couple of members here who are much more familiar with abscesses.

I'm thrilled that he's improving, and I'm also happy he has you to watch over him.

Thanks, Nancy

I will continue with the clavamox, and not release Dustin until there are no signs of the abscesses.

No, none of these have been lanced.

I will see about getting a photo or two, but that may be a challenge.

[olorin19]

I'm sorry to say, but until they are totally GONE, I would not release him. If there is any chance that bone could be involved int he infected area, the Clindamycin may be in order. Pics would be very helpful, but I know they are not easy to get.

I will continue with clavamox at least a few more days. The abscesses all seem fairly superficial. The two on the neck/shoulder seem to be between skin and muscle, as far as I can tell. The one on the elbow also seems superficial, but then again, it is an elbow.

I have clindamycin from last August. The bottle says expiration 10/31/2016. Would this still be good, or another bottle needed, if we go with clindamycin after clavamox?

[olorin19]

I'm glad to hear that Dustin is improving so fast. More than likely, Dustin is fine and the wounds will continue to heal. I don't see a problem with holding him a little longer out of an abundance of caution. The weather is cold and I'm sure that more pampering and food will get him in prime shape for release. More than likely he will go back out there and start fighting again over the ladies as he defends his territory. Having this round of wounds healed might help with differentiating future battle wounds vs recurrence of old infections.

That Dustin... he a scrapper isn't he! :grin2

I will keep him inside and on clavamox until the abscesses are all gone.

I have never really been sure how he got the wounds. With the cheek, once the scab came off, it looked like a slash, so I assumed a rear claw from another squirrel. With the elbow and neck/shoulder, I did wonder if he got puncture wounds, but it was never clear to me. There is zero fur loss, and these other three never got all red and awful looking, at least on the outside. I would have assumed a cat wound would get pretty infected, so perhaps squirrel there as well.

[Nancy in New York]

I have clindamycin from last August. The bottle says expiration 10/31/2016. Would this still be good, or another bottle needed, if we go with clindamycin after clavamox?

Is the clindamycin in suspension or in a pill?
I believe if it's in suspension, it can't go "much" past
the expiration date, if it's pill form it can go way past.

[olorin19]

Is the clindamycin in suspension or in a pill?
I believe if it's in suspension, it can't go "much" past
the expiration date, if it's pill form it can go way past.

Clindamycin is in suspension, so I will toss it out.

I am going to see if I can do anything with the remaining wounds this evening when I will have another pair of hands available, and also try and get photos at that time if possible.

Thanks!

[olorin19]

All three scabs/abscesses (two on neck/shoulder and one on elbow) are in similar condition:

The scab is flat, circular, and extends slightly beyond the edge of the tissue beneath.

What lies beneath is cylindrical, slightly less in diameter, and perhaps twice the thickness of the scab.

There has never been any sign of weeping or oozing - the areas have never been damp when I have checked them twice daily.

If something like this were on my body, I would pull off the scab. But I would also have the easy opportunity to wash the wound frequently, bandage it, and otherwise monitor it.

I am not sure if Dustin would be able to remove the neck/shoulders scabs, and perhaps the one on the back of the elbow is similarly difficult to reach. But I have not noticed him spending an inordinate amount of time trying to do anything about them.

Should i pull off the scabs? Or simply let nature run its course here?

[cava]

The scab is a natural bandage the body makes while tissue reunites underneath. If it is just dry and annoying, but still hasn't fallen off, I would say there is still a spot in the center holding it in place because the mending hasn't completed and dried out enough to let it fall off. Usually animals will get the itch when it is ready and scratch/bite/rub it off. (Sometimes before, as anyone with pets probably knows).

My advice is that if it isn't causing any problems and is simply annoying (especially if you're a picker like me) to let the body do it's thing and fall off in it's own good time. Picking scabs off then putting on salve and a bandage (which have chemicals and adhesives) is counterproductive.

Good luck. I'd love to see a scab photo!:grin2

[olorin19]

The scab is a natural bandage the body makes while tissue reunites underneath. If it is just dry and annoying, but still hasn't fallen off, I would say there is still a spot in the center holding it in place because the mending hasn't completed and dried out enough to let it fall off. Usually animals will get the itch when it is ready and scratch/bite/rub it off. (Sometimes before, as anyone with pets probably knows).

My advice is that if it isn't causing any problems and is simply annoying (especially if you're a picker like me) to let the body do it's thing and fall off in it's own good time. Picking scabs off then putting on salve and a bandage (which have chemicals and adhesives) is counterproductive.

Good luck. I'd love to see a scab photo!:grin2

Thanks Cava

That was what felt right to me (also a picker!) as well for Dustin.

My guess is that if the scabs were pulled off, what would lie beneath would be like a volcanic crater: a rim of raised healthy skin around the periphery and a slight depression in the center where healing was not yet complete.

[olorin19]

Thanks Cava

That was what felt right to me (also a picker!) as well for Dustin.

My guess is that if the scabs were pulled off, what would lie beneath would be like a volcanic crater: a rim of raised healthy skin around the periphery and a slight depression in the center where healing was not yet complete.

Hopefully when the scabs do come off, I will be able to locate at least one of them for a photo, to accompany photos of the healed wounds.

I am really curious as to how the fur is going to look in the area.

[olorin19]

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The first scab has just come off. This was the smaller of the two on the neck/shoulder. The first photo is of the outer surface. The second is also the outer but with the ruler to show the size of about a half inch. The other two show the inside surface. Skin underneath looked pink and healthy, no pus or sign of infection. I expect the other two to come off in the next few days.

Dustin has been very reluctant to be handled, very stressed, so after stopping the clavamox (11 days total), I have been only checking the scabs and giving probiotics once daily. I skipped a day as well, as my buddy was just too stressed. Note that so long as I do not try to hold him, he seems fine. He has the run of a mostly empty room all the time, and then of several other rooms when I am home. Dustin spends of his time on the windowsill beneath a large picture window.

Not able to get a photo of the skin under the scab, as did not have another person there at the time to help.

[olorin19]

The scab is a natural bandage the body makes while tissue reunites underneath. If it is just dry and annoying, but still hasn't fallen off, I would say there is still a spot in the center holding it in place because the mending hasn't completed and dried out enough to let it fall off. Usually animals will get the itch when it is ready and scratch/bite/rub it off. (Sometimes before, as anyone with pets probably knows).

My advice is that if it isn't causing any problems and is simply annoying (especially if you're a picker like me) to let the body do it's thing and fall off in it's own good time. Picking scabs off then putting on salve and a bandage (which have chemicals and adhesives) is counterproductive.

Good luck. I'd love to see a scab photo!:grin2

Scab photos just posted.

[olorin19]

Larger scab came off today. It was just hanging on by some strands of fur, so I worked it loose - not connected to skin at all. It was probably detached a few days ago, but I had not handled Dustin since Monday.

With snow coming today (we got about 6"), I was not looking to release him until this weekend at the earliest, as I wanted to have a stretch of relatively good weather since he has been inside three weeks. So, as Dustin has been healing so well but has been very reluctant to be handled, I have gone to only checking the scabs every 2-3 days now. There is still a small one on the elbow, but no sign of anything underneath other than healing skin.

Again, did not have a second person around, so not able to get any photos of the skin, but it looks and feels really good.

Thanks to all of you for your kind and patient help!

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[Nancy in New York]

Larger scab came off today. It was just hanging on by some strands of fur, so I worked it loose - not connected to skin at all. It was probably detached a few days ago, but I had not handled Dustin since Monday.

With snow coming today (we got about 6"), I was not looking to release him until this weekend at the earliest, as I wanted to have a stretch of relatively good weather since he has been inside three weeks. So, as Dustin has been healing so well but has been very reluctant to be handled, I have gone to only checking the scabs every 2-3 days now. There is still a small one on the elbow, but no sign of anything underneath other than healing skin.

Again, did not have a second person around, so not able to get any photos of the skin, but it looks and feels really good.

Thanks to all of you for your kind and patient help!


Glad that Dustin is healing so well.
Yeah, it's wise to wait for a good stretch of weather for re-release.
You did a fantastic job helping Dustin to heal. :w00t

[olorin19]

Finally got some photos of the neck/shoulder area. The patch closer to the ear is the one where the scab only came off two days ago, while the other had the scab off a week ago. There is still some slight depth to each area, with more depth in the one nearer the ear.

No sign of scab or even wound on the elbow.

Besides nice weather, what should be the goal here before release - no sign of scab, no depth to the area?

Dustin was on clavamox for 11 days, and has now been off it for 11 days. I have not noticed any point during this process where he seemed to be getting worse, just continual incremental improvement. On the every other day when I do check the wounds, I am applying t-mycin and derma gel.

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[HRT4SQRLS]

Dustin looks good. :grin2 I think as soon as you get some good weather he should be good to go. Aren't you having a blizzard? CM920CM920CM2289CM920CM920

[olorin19]

Dustin looks good. :grin2 I think as soon as you get some good weather he should be good to go. Aren't you having a blizzard? CM920CM920CM2289CM920CM920

We had about six inches on Thursday, but it is mostly gone with rain and warmer weather. No snow or rain predicted over the next ten days. Monday to Friday has highs in the 40s and lows in the high 20s to low 30s. Then starting Saturday there are three days with highs in the 50s and lows in the 30s. Should I wait until Saturday? Dustin has not been outside for 23 days now.

[SammysMom]

I am very conservative, but if he is okay with it, I would wait. If he is overly stressed and freaking out, I would consider release. He seems to be taking the whole thing in stride. A true testament to his trust in your care!:Love_Icon

[HRT4SQRLS]

Yeah I would wait also. That is WAAAYYYY too cold! :eek :rotfl CM920 CM920 CM920
Being inside for several weeks has probably 'softened' up the boy. :grin2

[Milo's Mom]

We had about six inches on Thursday, but it is mostly gone with rain and warmer weather. No snow or rain predicted over the next ten days. Monday to Friday has highs in the 40s and lows in the high 20s to low 30s. Then starting Saturday there are three days with highs in the 50s and lows in the 30s. Should I wait until Saturday? Dustin has not been outside for 23 days now.

I was trained that when a wild comes into rehab during the winter if they stay for more than 3-5 days they should stay until Spring. The 3-5 days is the amount of time it takes for them to lose their territory. Releasing now could be very difficult for him...needs to acclimate to the outdoor temps, needs to find a new territory, needs to find materials to build a new drey, needs to find new food sources in the new territory.

If he's not freaking out and harming himself, personally, I would wait.

The weather in this part of the country...well let's just say if you don't like it, hang around for 5 minutes, it'll change.

[olorin19]

I am very conservative, but if he is okay with it, I would wait. If he is overly stressed and freaking out, I would consider release. He seems to be taking the whole thing in stride. A true testament to his trust in your care!:Love_Icon

Thanks SammysMom

I am happy to wait. Dustin is reluctant to be handled, which is understandable after oral antibiotics twice daily, but otherwise does not seem really stressed. While he would surely prefer to be outside, he has the run of a corner bedroom with two windows 24/7, so spends much of his time on the windowsill surveying his kingdom. When I am home, he has the run of the house, and enjoys exploring elsewhere. So all things considered, he is doing pretty well and certainly in no way freaking out.

When I handle him to check the wounds, the drama is managing to get ahold of him. But once I have him, he is actually okay, and fine as soon as he is released a few minutes later.

[olorin19]

I was trained that when a wild comes into rehab during the winter if they stay for more than 3-5 days they should stay until Spring. The 3-5 days is the amount of time it takes for them to lose their territory. Releasing now could be very difficult for him...needs to acclimate to the outdoor temps, needs to find a new territory, needs to find materials to build a new drey, needs to find new food sources in the new territory.

If he's not freaking out and harming himself, personally, I would wait.

The weather in this part of the country...well let's just say if you don't like it, hang around for 5 minutes, it'll change.

Thanks, MM, that is very helpful.

I still have the bottom of his original pre-release cage, which is 6' high by 3' diameter. The nest box fits inside. Dustin has had that nest box since he was four months old. It is usually attached to an 8' oak stump, and he sleeps there most nights from October to April. Right now, it is inside with him, but can be used to move him from indoors to outdoors. It is also insulated and has lots of fleece inside. Since the issue seems to be getting Dustin used to the outdoors as well as getting the local squirrels used to Dustin again, when it gets a bit warmer, i may have him outdoors during the daytime. I can set this up against the SE facing back of my brick house, under the eaves, so he will be in a nice microclimate.

Does this make sense, to transition like this? The possible downside is that he may simply be happier in a 10' x 12' room with windows than in a much smaller cage.

Comments welcome, thanks!

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